1/1/2015
guest There ya go. Took the liberty of running your post through the FUD filter.
Transparency does not have to be hard.
Documentation is not optional in the context of best practice. Cutting corners 20% is not best practice. Get it right or don't do it. That's the difference between good and great.�
1/1/2015
guest Factually incorrect statement. Many companies provide transparency via release notes. Apple and Microsoft are a couple of examples. It's not as uncommon as you suggest.�
1/1/2015
guest +1 for forcing updates. Drove to SC, parked for 1 minute, car jumped onto Service Wifi, sat another 5 minutes, engaged drive and pulled away. Drove 7 more miles to office, parked. 2 minutes later App told me I had an update ready to install.�
1/1/2015
guest I work for a large tech company and I have to say, while release notes sometimes highlight important / notable issues, often times "miscellaneous security / bug fixes" is the only descriptive statement summing up thousands of various bugfixes...
You're right (as well as Hank) that some companies maintain a split between security updates and new functionality, but in the long run that's very difficult to do unless you can source funding for separate teams for each, via enterprise support contract cash flow. Managing a lot of concurrent releases is complex, and patch-to-patch dependencies/interactions happen all the time in complex codebases.
I've even seen Microsoft move away from this in Windows 10 on the consumer side. Every few months they push down that they call a new "build" that's a culmination of all the patches and then other undocumented changes and it re-runs through the Windows installer workflow.
There's upsides and downsides to both approaches. Definitely, the approach of forcing everyone to be on the latest and "greatest" leaves some folks experiencing unfortunate regressions, but that kind of alignment also affords some engineering simplicity/unification for Tesla, which helps too.�
1/1/2015
guest The line "minor bug fixes and performance enhancements" is helpful because absent any other content in the release notes, it tells us that, for example, there are no UI or driver assist feature changes that would be evident in daily driving,
The point is not to provide a reason to not apply an OTA update. The point is to inform the owner about what they're installing *before* they take responsibility for so doing - since in part, there's no "undo" button.�
1/1/2015
guest Hank, I have managed 140 software developers and quality assurance testers and it is evident that you do not understand software testing.
Let's say that there are 150 different software releases because owners have not upgraded their software to the latest level. Everytime Tesla creates a new software release, Tesla would have to test it against each one of the 150 different versions. They would also need to keep track of every version of software that each car is on. This is totally an unmanageable solution.
Microsoft used to send critical and non-critical software updates, with Windows 10 you can delay some updates but eventually Windows 10 forces you to accept all updates.
The difference between a PC and a Tesla, is that if I do not install updates on my computer, it may get a virus or the computer may stop working. If I do not install updates on my Tesla, this could create safety issues that could cause harm to the me, my Tesla, or other people.
I would much rather have individual software releases and I can make the choice of to install them or not. I know all software releases have been tested against the prior release.�
1/1/2015
guest But we do see both UI and driver assist feature changes in many if not most of the updates that are not called out. They may be subtle such as fixes to Media Player not playing after the car turns off or changes in AP but they are evident in daily driving.
Also to @S85D Microsoft has provided Release Notes for Windows 10 for a while now.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12387/windows-10-update-history�
1/1/2015
guest I was talking about single fix, not providing release notes. So the only incorrectness is in your reading.
Providing release notes is not all that hard. Providing good release notes is difficult, expensive, and slow.�
1/1/2015
guest Why put the thinking of what to update onto a driver? It is too complicated.
No one cares... People on this forum is only a small percentage of the tesla drivers.
This is the iPhone way, update or not.. Your choice.
�
1/1/2015
guest You took the liberty of removing anything you disagreed with. Thus leaving nothing. If you can't actually address what I say, why bother responding?
Everything's easy when it's somebody else who has to do it.
People who take that attitude never ship.
All software is broken. The only difference is in how much. Tesla is taking the approach of using a small, fast moving team, extensive use testing, and minimal customer coddling -- this results in fast turnaround and long-term greater progress. If they never put out firmware until it was great, we'd get one release a year with lovely release notes. And no customer would have yet tried auto-pilot.�
1/1/2015
guest Lol. Well, let's see...
Because including "minor fixes and performance enhancements" as a pre-confirmation step in the workflow is so difficult. This is basic Release Management 101.
Because standards are important.
Because when the FUD in your posts is removed, there's not much left.�
1/1/2015
guest You say you know what you're asking for and then show you don't. Or at least you didn't express it well. You suggested that Tesla "issue individual patches". Apparently you actually meant big batches of bug fixes, just segmented in some way.
I wonder how you think Tesla batches up their bug fixes today. Do you think it's completely random? I imagine it's done in a way to get fixes out there as quickly and safely as can reasonably be done. I also imagine they sometimes make poor choices and sometimes make mistakes. Do you think it's different from that? If so, why?�
1/1/2015
guest To be fair, it says "quality improvements and security fixes" and lists a few specific bugs while the MSU BOM shows around 10,000 files changed in the latest monthly update. So, it is marginally better than Tesla's release notes because it calls out some specific examples of bugs that are fixed, but it's still not a comprehensive overview of everything that could've changed in the update.�
1/1/2015
guest For me, I simply would like some amount of release notes to know what areas of my Tesla have been changed, so I can be a little more conscious of any differences that occur after new firmware is applied. Tesla isn't perfect -- bugs not only get fixed and new features provided, but bugs have also been introduced, to then hopefully be resolved in a future drop.
Tesla already provides more detailed notes when new features are introduced, which is great. I appreciate in complex products like our MS, there are many things that are constantly tweaked, where it's simply unimportant owners need to know or could even understand all the details -- but at least knowing e.g. that there have been "Miscellaneous bug fixes to Media Player" or some other major parts of the vehicle would be very helpful. How much detail is provided is a balancing act Tesla needs to work on to improve communication with their Owners -- no different than any other software developer and service provider goes through. From my POV, effectively "nothing" isn't sufficient, which I think most folks here agree with.
MOST IMPORTANTLY to me is, I have been told and its been documented in my service records that some problems I have with my MS (like S90D Rated Range, a growing list of Media Player issues, oddities with CID reboots or memory constraints, etc) will each be resolved by a future firmware release which has no known ETA. Given that, and that Tesla has no FUP process with customers who have acknowledged firmware bugs, every single firmware release I receive, I hope and wonder -- "is one of my growing list of unresolved problems addressed this time?" It becomes my job as the owner to then figure out if something I care about has been resolved. My more often than not false hope going through that process actually decreases my satisfaction more than if I had seen in the release notes e.g. there were no fixes to Battery Management, Media Player, or whatever I was needing resolution to...�
1/1/2015
guest I'm sorry, but I'm not going to continue in a discussion where your leading arguments are "you just really don't know what you're talking about". I actually do. I'm sorry if your experience is different from mine, and you feel like you need to launch ad-hominem attacks to support your counter argument. Separating core function and UI is such a basic tenet of software development, I really don't know else to say, if all you're going to say is "you're wrong." I've developed data warehouse and BI systems for fortune 500 companies for 15 years and was able design systems that completely separated the analysis and reporting tools from and backend systems. And when the management du-jour decides to trash their current reporting systems and clients for something else, it was trivial to swap in *any* front end software package or tools without changing the back-end. And after I left the BI world and got into web and app development, the same things all hold true, if it's done correctly.
I never said it was fast, easy or cheap, I just said that's the way it should have been done.�
1/1/2015
guest My thoughts on these two separate issues being discussed:
1. Release notes. I think a simple bug fix statement or detailed bug fix documentation is not provided and won't be because of liability issues. If someone gets in an accident, citing the last release notes that said "minor bugs fixed" is enough to open a can of worms and lead to a lawsuit, even if said bugs had absolutely nothing to do with the accident. Tesla figures that it's better to not even open that door.
2. On patch releases instead of monolithic releases. Given that the vehicle carries a lot more liability risk than a phone, desktop computer, or DVD player, QA/QC is paramount. Allowing independent software/firmware releases for portions of the car's systems increases geometrically the number of unique running configurations out in the field, and there's no way to run all possible combinations through full QA/QC to ensure safety. Tesla already has enough problems squashing bugs in the monolithic release system, I feel there would be a huge drop in operational quality if the matter was further complicated with individual patches.�
1/1/2015
guest
Of course I can't say anything specific, but I can say with some authority that #1 above is at least partly true. Release notes can be legally construed as a legally relevant guarantee, admission of guilt, or other legally significant statement. As such, they're generally run through the marketing / PR / legal arm of a large company. Unfortunately, lawyers do attempt to use such release notes from time to time as evidence of wrongdoing, etc, and obfuscating the release notes to nondescript statements prevents companies from opening themselves to legal issues.
It's not a very good excuse, but you can imagine how sensitive a company's legal department can be, especially if they work on machinery like cars.�
1/1/2015
guest They already have a complex situation. They don't just update the touchscreen computer; there are a large number of other processor modules in the car, many of which are upgraded remotely (a laptop has to be hooked up for some, like the 12V DC charger system for some reason).
Now realize that Tesla keeps upgrading the hardware as they go. Not just A/B/C... battery packs, but also touchscreen computers, door handle processors, etc., etc.
When your car gets serviced and they have to replace something, they often end up installing a newer version (e.g. I have a newer touchscreen than other cars of its vintage, and it's a different hardware revision. I have much newer door handles. I have one of the oldest battery packs. etc.). It's entirely possible - if not likely - that my car is running a different firmware load than every other vehicle on the road.
So they already have a big problem with configuration management and testing. That's more than enough to manage!!!�
1/1/2015
guest I'm not looking for a comprehensive list. I'm looking for a higher level of release notes like Microsoft, Apple and many other companies do. Example:
Improvements to the Battery Managemt algorithm
Various security enhancements
Media Player fixes
Navigation improvement
Etc.�
1/1/2015
guest Nice try but scroll up, the topic was release notes. You can't prove you're right by changing the topic and insulting known experts with vastly more experience running large teams here.�
1/1/2015
guest When Doug chimed in, I was sure a lot of those posts would be moved to snippy.�
1/1/2015
guest "The topic" as it were is "Firmware 7.1". In any case I quoted and responded to HankLloydRight's suggestion that Tesla "Instead of monolithic firmware updates, issue individual patches." No mention of release notes anywhere.
Seriously, go bother somebody else. If you wish to respond to something I've written about release notes then quote that so what you're saying isn't a non sequitur.�
1/1/2015
guest While my S was at the Service Center getting its new integrated console installed, firmware 2.24.102 was pushed into the car by the Service Center WiFi network. Was told that if your car is within the SC WiFi for a period of time, and it can utilize the software upgrade, then the Service Center WiFi network (servers) will push the release to your car. Apparently I was told, this is something rather new. Works for me.
BTW, the new Integrated Console is really nice... butter smooth hatch, rear cup holders that are hidden for rear passengers, plenty of storage, and a iPhone 6 charging dock (optional) that works with my Tesla leather iPhone cover. The dock comes with two sets of iPhone holder/berths, one set for the 6S+ and another set for the 6S. I put in the 6S+ set, and my 6S, with the leather cover fits in swell. No need to fiddle around with it.
Pretty nice product (essentially the Model X center console but for the S) albeit pretty expensive.�
1/1/2015
guest Post# 3239 "release notes".�
1/1/2015
guest And yet you quoted my post #3238 and said it was "factually incorrect" regarding release notes when it wasn't about release notes at all. This just underscores that getting things right is hard -- ironically your claim of error was itself in error due to carelessness. I'll be happy to respond to any comment you have on my actual post about release notes.�
1/1/2015
guest Okay, I can clarify this for you.
1. I quoted #3238 that you are factually incorrect regarding @HankLloydRight not knowing what he's talking about (he does) and your belief that no one other than IBM (that you know of) issues individual patches (they do).
2. Post #3239 you quoted @TaoJones comment advocating release notes which is the "topic" (really a subtopic) I was addressing although I can see now you agree Tesla's could be better albeit expensive so I'll concede there's little disagreement on that point other than the expense.�
1/1/2015
guest It has already become clear that when when HankLloydRight wrote about "individual patches" that he didn't mean single fix at all, so it seems that was just a misunderstanding. I don't have any idea why he described things that way. And if you want to contest that somebody else (other than IBM) does single fix in any context then you would have to support that rather than just assert it. IBM remains the only one I know of.
The only useful question to debate is whether the balance is right. I pretty much come down on the side of working software in preference to good documentation whenever a choice is to be made. Just like I advocate resources going to good engineering over better customer communications. You don't get to have everything in a limited world. Making one better almost always means making the other worse. Tesla's choices make sense to me.�
1/1/2015
guest Re that last paragraph we will just have to agree to disagree.�
1/1/2015
guest Apple requires App Store updates to have a change notification, but some are lame, like "Fixes bug and improves stability". I've done hundreds of software releases, and it is a courtesy to your users to list at least the highlights of what has changed.�
1/1/2015
guest So when there is a hint of the 'next' software update - apparently the SC parking lots will be inundated.
(Does that save money for Tesla?)�
1/1/2015
guest +1 for SC wifi update. SC @ West Palm SC, 11 minutes.... Boom update available.
Kinda wonder about the coincedink and now I know
�
1/1/2015
guest I was really trying to stay out of the snippi^H^H^H^H^H^H drama, but I just want to respond to this. If you read my posts, I wasn't advocating that Tesla do individual patches.. I was just saying it was *possible*. What I was advocating was just two levels of updates, critical and non-critical. So people can feel safe by applying the critical patches as necessary, and also pick and choose the non-critical patches as they desired. I used the single fix example as just an example of what was possible, not that I was saying that's what Tesla should do. I realize the complexity and expense that would entail, and like most of you wouldn't want to see TM spend limited resources doing that. At the same time, if they did architect their platform to separate UI from core/critical function, it would be possible to offer at least those levels of updates. It's not black-and-white (single vs. monolithic), but there are grey areas in between that are achievable given the proper architecture from the start. If that's not what Tesla did, fine, we'll have to live with whatever they send down the line (which is still mostly awesome).�
1/1/2015
guest Will having any of the low power settings and always connected setting on, cause any delay when at home and the car is on wifi?�
1/1/2015
guest There's far too much traffic on the board these days - I can't read even a tiny fraction (it wasn't too many years ago that I could read every post!).
If you have a concern about a post please use the report button.�
1/1/2015
guest Wait. What?
You actually asked someone that would know, and got this question that we've been debating for weeks now answered definitively? What were you thinking?
If you're going to go and get solid information like that that's going to spoil all our fun, you need to keep it to yourself!�
1/1/2015
guest I tried that at the Palo Alto service center, figuring that if anybody was triggering updates they would be. All I got was a claim of ignorance, which I decided was probably true. How often does the factory let their service people know what's going on? I almost always find that I know more than they do about current issues and such.�
1/1/2015
guest Yeah same here and it shouldn't be that way.�
1/1/2015
guest I noticed something different today, perhaps related to our last update.........my creepster option is gone. I wasn't using creep so it didn't shut me down, but it was available at one point. Anyone else loose their creepiness lately?�
1/1/2015
guest TMC Members - I am so sorry that I posted this question less than 24 hours ago. There have now been over 50 rather vitriolic replies to this. Being a relative newby to this site, having my Tesla just 1 month, I had expected someone to point to where perhaps greater detail could be found. So - about me. I lead the software development efforts for a major tier-1 defense company, with over 300 software engineers in my organization. Every software release that we put out is accompanied by an SVD (software version description) that highlights every change - what artifacts were fixed, what requirements have been implemented, safety criticality (DoD 882, DO 178) issues, and the like. Do I expect this from Tesla - no. But it would be helpful, and if not helpful at least entertaining and informative, to get a view into Tesla's software development process. I naively thought that some of the more seasoned members here could shed some light. Instead, I'm disappointed to see what more closely resembles a flame war. I had had better hopes for this forum and for its members. I apologize for post that started this...�
1/1/2015
guest I got 2.24.102 last Friday and I'm as creepy as I was before the update.�
1/1/2015
guest At least you are consistent.�
1/1/2015
guest Yeah this place can be brutal. It's the Internet after all�
1/1/2015
guest Just for you I just backed out of the driveway (creeping all the way) and then back in. It still works for me.�
1/1/2015
guest Ummm.......so you still got the creeps.
Thank you for checking. I guess its MIA with my DRLs.�
1/1/2015
guest Well a bit more data as it were.... I brought in my S at 7:25 AM. My iPhone said that a software update was available at 10:32 AM (in the Notifications section) So that is about a 3 hour time period. My S is in the always connected mode and power savings is off. Now perhaps I was in a dead cell phone area and only received the software message later when I regained connectivity. But the message (which defines the successful download to the S) came 3 hours after arrival at the SC. So what I am saying is, it could take some amount of time in an SC to start/complete the software download process. Also, who knows if all SC's have implemented this new software push feature at this time? If you are going to hang out at an SC to hopefully troll for new software, I suggest bringing a gift of some donuts, bagels or perhaps other healthier treats for the gang.�
1/1/2015
guest Are you still in range mode?�
1/1/2015
guest Unless Hitler and Nazis are brought to thread, it is not flame war ; )�
1/1/2015
guest I don't believe range mode and creep are connected.�
1/1/2015
guest @SD Driver,
You're right - the flame war is entirely inappropriate. It is not your fault for asking an entirely reasonable question.
I have moved a post or two to snippiness . And will once again ask that people dial it down and stay polite.�
1/1/2015
guest I never thought to check, but will do so when I head out. Thx.�
1/1/2015
guest on 2.24.102 the creep setting is still there. And as in the past, you must be in Park to change that setting.
You cannot make the change whilst underway. If you are underway, you can see the setting but the buttons are kind of not vibrant and greyed out. They become re-setable when you are in Park.�
1/1/2015
guest Thanks Art. It was noticed while parked at the SC but its quite possible I unknowingly flicked something in conflict. My reverse cam doesn't always display on the screen and a few other annoyances so I'll eventually get over to the SvC..........BUT I am awaiting early signs of the next update so I can arrive with my over/under book. I'm thinking setting the value at 8 mins and adjust accordingly as wagers come in.�
1/1/2015
guest Got the .102 release this afternoon while SuperCharging at the European HQ (Amsterdam). I was keen on using the charger stall closest to the guest lounge (where there is wifi for sure). But no wifi connection materialised. Got the new release OTA by 3G anyhow. So my bet is on the geo-fencing theory.�
1/1/2015
guest Following up on speculation in the 90D supercharging thread, has anyone noticed a bump in the power delivery rate while supercharging, particularly further into the charge cycle?�
1/1/2015
guest So for the firmware geofencing update conspiracy theorist. I was already about 90% sure is was true after my last supercharging experience at my service center and firmware update just minutes after leaving. Well today, 21 days later, and jumped my from 2.22.75 to 2.24.102 just minutes after my only supercharger visit at my service center since then I am up to 99.9% sure it's not a conspiracy. Here is today's timeline after no update since 6-16-16.�
1/1/2015
guest I think it should be made clear that the theory is when you visit a Service Center not a SuperCharger.�
1/1/2015
guest My bad. My supercharging WAS at my Service Center. One in the same�
1/1/2015
guest So was mine. The European HQ is both (10 + 2 stall) SuC and SeC.�
1/1/2015
guest Ill add to the debate here me and my friend both stopped with our 2 new MS at a service center / supercharger today and within 10 min we both had the update available notice!!�
1/1/2015
guest I'll add to the opposite....
My car was at the Montreal Service Center for 2.5 days for it's annual + a few things.
Car is still on 2.20.45, no update pending.�
1/1/2015
guest Perhaps your car needs to speak correct French? If not, it will be ignored.....�
1/1/2015
guest LOL!
Unfortunately, Car (UI) is not even available in French for us (North America) but is for France...�
1/1/2015
guest I had an interesting thing happen last night. I had left my car at the airport overnight and when I returned to the car, it showed that I had an update available, but I've already received 2.24.102. Then I notice an error message on the console saying my touch screen isn't working and I need to call service.
I rebooted the screen and the console, everything worked as normal but the update message disappeared.�
1/1/2015
guest
That is odd. Did you by chance leave a USB stick or device plugged in?�
1/1/2015
guest I did have a USB stick in with my music... I've had the car 3 weeks and never removed it.�
1/1/2015
guest Why, what's your theory? I suspect many/most people leave their thumb drive in but haven't had this happen.�
1/1/2015
guest Well, have a peek at a post I created in the spring:
Touchscreen Freeze
There others here as well who have been told that a USB stick always inserted can cause a myriad of touchscreen issues...�
1/1/2015
guest Interesting, thanks for the link. I've never had this happen in 10 months but now I know what to do if that starts happening.�
1/1/2015
guest In a way, this is such an outlier it should probably be disqualified as an example trying to prove or disprove the "automatic update when on service center wifi" theory. I say that because I believe almost without exception, the cars are updated to the latest firmware routinely when in for service visits, and certainly when in for their annual service. If for some reason this did not take place with your car, manually or otherwise, that is so far from the norm, that there could be other issues at work. I won't try to guess what they may be, but the fact remains that this is far from normal.�
1/1/2015
guest Just for fun I drove 60 miles to the service center in Milford Connecticut.
I parked in the lot for 30 minutes. I then drove to the Milford north bound supercharger.
I then got a notification of new software which turned out to be 2.24.102
Thanks to the people who suspected that this was possible.�
1/1/2015
guest I did the same thing. Drove to the service center and parked for 30 minutes then I saw the software update notification. It seems like service center has a cellular transmitter or some kind to connect to the car. The Wi-Fi there didn't work at all.�
1/1/2015
guest I drove to the Service Center yesterday and connected to their guest WiFi. I stayed there about 15 minutes. I drove home and about an hour later went out to the car and I got the latest software release ready to download.�
1/1/2015
guest The service center parking lots are going to be totally jammed the day 8.0 is released to the wild! I'll be there for sure.�
1/1/2015
guest so true hahaha�
1/1/2015
guest You don't have to park in the lot and wait for it to download. My guess is it's a geofence trigger. Just drive by. Maybe sit for a few minutes and then go on your way. By the time you get home it'll be ready to install.�
1/1/2015
guest Ok guys, I'm one of the biggest skeptics of this theory, but today I sat for 15 mins in Service Center parking lot to see if I could pick up the 2.26.103 update that ev-fw.com claims is out there. It's been half an hour since leaving the Service Center and nothing yet...�
1/1/2015
guest Possible it could be a configuration option that only certain SCs have enabled. I can tell you it's worked 100% of the time for me in San Diego.
See if anyone else at your local SC can make it trigger. Or maybe venture a drive to a location that is know to work.
Who knows for sure.�
1/1/2015
guest just a single car has received that.�
1/1/2015
guest Let me fix that for you...
just a single car has received that whose owner knows about ev-fw.com and also bothered to create an account and submit an update.�
1/1/2015
guest Thanks but I think most of us who have been here and using Tesla Tracker for awhile understand those assumptions. :wink:�
1/1/2015
guest You didn't state which service center you visited. I mentioned in an earlier post the Rocklin SC on a Saturday after closing hours was unable to connect to the magical Tesla Service access point. It could be the range is limited or maybe the garage is closed on the weekend.�
1/1/2015
guest I went to the Service center on Thursday and connected to the guest WiFi for a few minutes. About an hour after I got home I received 2.26.102.
I went to the Austin Service Center today and connected to the WiFi. I have been home for over an hour and have not received a software update notification. :-(�
1/1/2015
guest I got 2.26.103 from service yesterday. They said it was the first instance of 2.26.103 and just an hour or so prior 2.24.102 was their latest.
First update I've personally gotten in almost 3 months.�
1/1/2015
guest @wk057 I was just going to ask about that. Have they forgiven you and re-enabled software updates, or do you have to go to a SC and have them manually upgrade your car? (Or is there something else that went wrong at the same time you made the P100 announcement that was causing your car to not get updates?)
And speaking of such things have they seen what you did to your wife's car yet? If so, what did they think about it?�
1/1/2015
guest Service Center 'stop bys' may be true. For those doing a SC attempt and not getting the latest greatest update - it may be that your particular car is not designated for that update.
For example, I have a 3 yr old Model S (no AP or park sensor features). The latest update available may only have tweaks for AP - thus my Model S would not get it.�
1/1/2015
guest Welp, 4 hours after visiting the Service Center, no software update, so I remain a skeptic for now.�
1/1/2015
guest Last time they uploaded the logs and downloaded new firmware what seemed to be through the charging port. The tech plugged in the car to charge even though it was almost full and then went to poke on his laptop. 20 - 30 minutes later he unplugged it and lifted it up to look underneath at some minor damage. Never plugged anything inside the car. When I got it back soon after 2.22.50 was waiting to be installed. They didn't have the car long enough to upload the new firmware through Wi-Fi.
The charge port theory has some merit as the firmware on the CHAdeMO adapter is updated via it.�
1/1/2015
guest Great! I was hoping they didn't maintain a naughty and nice list.�
1/1/2015
guest They've seen my wife's car. I've gotten some praise for it, and a little bit of concern. But overall positive.
As for updates, it seems I was on some kind of naughty list, but have been taken off of it for my P85D. My wife's P85 can't get updates officially still, even at the service center, currently. Trying to work through that with Tesla. Basically the issue seems to be that it's now a unique hardware mix in the fleet. Specifically, it's the only autopilot car that has the first gen TPMS sensor hardware. Sounds silly, but it seems this may have tripped some fail-safe on their end.
Anyway... installed 2.26.103... those comprehensive release notes are amazing! (sarcasm) Figured there'd be pages of notes going dozens of updates ahead... (went from 2.16.31 -> 2.26.103)
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1/1/2015
guest �
1/1/2015
guest @wk057 - side note
Glad you're posting again even if it's limited. Many here miss your contributions.�
1/1/2015
guest Doubt you're missing much.�
1/1/2015
guest The last handful of 7.1 versions from 2.20.x to 2.26.x haven't been changing much. I think the dev team is concentrating on the new 8.0 development. If you haven't received one since 2.20.x, I wouldn't worry. Keep in mind the AutoPilot still improves by virtue of the fleet-wide learning (tiles) that are constantly downloaded independently from the software releases, so your AP is still getting better even though you are "stuck" on "old" software. When they release 8.0, then get impatient! =)
2.26.103 updated the following systems (from 2.22.50):
CID (Center Display)
IC (Instrument Cluster)
Gateway
Battery Management
Charger Main Control
Charger Phases
Charge Port
Drive Inverter(s)
Pedal Monitor
Thermal Control
Sunroof/Pano Control
Driver Assistance
Parking Brake
Security�
1/1/2015
guest So the car does not get the software from the service center?
Just being there forces the car to receive a download by LTE or wi fi as you normally would?�
1/1/2015
guest My understanding is that every car has it's own firmware build. For this to happen the server at Tesla needs to be triggered to build an update for a specific car. The server can't build every version at once so there is some order it follows.
So it's likely by connecting at the service center that it triggers a higher priority. You don't need to stick around to download it as it will come through when it gets done regardless.
It doesn't guarantee that you'll get an update, but it looks like it's almost certain that you'll have a higher priority.�
1/1/2015
guest That is how it seems to me. I've tried for weeks to get my refresh to get the DRL update and finally what I did was park at a Best Buy next to the service center.... I was too far to pick up the service or guest wifi but after leaving my car alone and browsing Best Buy for 15 minutes I drove my car back to work and it had an update ready to apply.�
1/1/2015
guest You mean cars with specific builds and VIN ranges right? I can't imagine each car getting its own unique firmware package. Seems that would be a nightmare to manage.�
1/1/2015
guest That's what I initially assumed was the case, but it was claimed otherwise
Ingineer likely can clear up any confusion on whether it's done on an individual car basis, or done with specific builds.�
1/1/2015
guest Maybe each car gets an update cryptographically signed specifically for its VIN? That could be automated so there wouldn't be any management overhead. But every firmware download would be unique.�
1/1/2015
guest As I understand it, each car has a firmware package built automatically and then encrypted, signed, and sent. Each of these firmware packages are specific for the car, and include only the modules and versions necessary for that car. This saves bandwidth, processing, and eliminates any risk of incorrect firmware or packages getting installed.
Examples:
- Firmware for the 2nd charger is not packaged and sent to cars that don't have a 2nd charger.
- Autopilot firmware is not packaged and sent to non-autopilot cars.
- Air suspension firmware is not sent to coil suspension cars.
�
1/1/2015
guest Someone has to try and fix the signal to noise ratio that seems to plague this forum lately.
Lots of misinformation on how firmware updates work. So, I'll clarify... and conclude my TMC postings for a bit.
As for firmware, the images on every car are the same. They are NOT unique per car. In fact, every Model S or Model X on the same version number has the same main firmware image. The firmware contains everything needed for *the car* to determine what modules get what software loaded on to them. For example, I didn't need to get different firmware when I did the autopilot retrofit project because the firmware already has everything needed. It just only uses what is needed for that car's configuration when it is installed.
My guess is this will change at some point, because eventually there will be too much to include in the main image to cover every possible module revision... but for now, it's not a bad way to do things.
Now, when the firmware is downloaded the server tries to make a binary patch for the car based on the current version its running if the version delta isn't too great. This saves some bandwidth. But when the patch is applied the resulting image is the same as every S/X with that version.�
1/1/2015
guest Before you go WK, have you observed any meaning to the version numbers?
Are they purely major/moderate/minor incremental or do the .xx or .xx.yy have any significance in terms of modules/functionality updated from what you have observed.�
1/1/2015
guest Please keep posting. :-D Also, PM me if you'd be willing to chat re: some of the hacking you've done with another developer/new tesla owner.�
1/1/2015
guest I would bet these delta patches are statically pre-generated for the finite set of versions out in the field, and are not dynamically generated when a download request comes in.�
1/1/2015
guest Don't feel bad, Bert. I'm still on 2.20.30 as well.�
1/1/2015
guest I, too, have a fossilized 2.20.30 and was one of the poor saps that went to an SC, connected to Tesla Service WiFi and waited for 15 minutes. Still no update opportunity granted. While I'm not missing much per the postings on what's improved in the latest version, it still leaves a twinge of jealousy to know that others have had some of the minor, but obvious, bugs squashed.
I must also say that this forum is truly incredible and unique. How many other vehicles on Planet Earth have a discussion board like this with the vigorous debates and apparent intellect (on both sides of the debate) on such compelling subject material? I can't imagine any.�
1/1/2015
guest Is it my imagination, or has the in-car manual been totally reorganized with a hierarchical index and generally less need for searching
and scrolling? I'm on 2.26.86, but this may not be that recent since I don't look at the in-car manual that frequently.�
1/1/2015
guest My apologies, I thought I had read the description which I reiterated on this forum, but evidently that was incorrect.
So all firmware downloads contain all modules, but potentially may have only "delta" patches for the current firmware revision that the car is already on. Thus, a single download for a particular car may not contain everything necessary to upgrade a different car that's on a different firmware revision, because its particular delta patches couldn't be applied.�
1/1/2015
guest So does that mean you are going to update the TPMS sensor hardware now?�
1/1/2015
guest I for one would love to read about such an upgrade. I'm still blown away by the primitive first generation TPMS system. The other oddity that surprised me with my car is the fact that it has electrochromic dimming side view mirrors but not heated. I guess that was a warm California-based decision. Upgrading those two, as well as fog lights, and retrofitting new LED headlights are projects I'd be interested in pursuing. It sounds like a TPMS upgrade would cause firmware problems though as it's associated with auto-pilot cars.�
1/1/2015
guest The newer cars have heated side view mirrors. Page 104 User Manual:
"6. ...Exterior side mirrors are also heated."�
1/1/2015
guest I know. I was just drawing attention to the fact that electrochromic dimming came before heated mirrors. That's why I'm saying I'd love to upgrade my car with new TPMS, new mirrors, fog lights, and LED headlights. Tesla has addressed all of my feature wish lists and working on fully autonomous driving, which is the last item of my wish list, but will definitely require a new car.�
1/1/2015
guest I have been using AP since it came out, but have taken few long trips. Yesterday I made a 275 mile trip, nearly all on I-95 in MA, NH and ME (trip to Portland and back). I was alarmed a couple of times because the car definitely wanders from side to side in the lane at certain times, and one circumstance seems to be at or near the crest of hill, even small hills. This surprises me. Lane markings were in good condition in the locations where I noticed this. My spouse was with me, and also noticed this and remarked about it. Towards the end of the trip as i neared home on a stretch of road I have driven countless times, the system was wandering too much so I shut it off. I did not need to reinforce any misgivings my spouse might have, plus it was raising my anxiety somewhat.
One time, to my amazement, the car actually set off the lane departure warning! I have never before experienced that with AP engaged. I always felt that AP was better at keeping the car in the lane than I was, but yesterday rattled me a bit.
So I agree that this behavior needs to be reduced.�
1/1/2015
guest The problem seems to manifest itself when the camera loses track of one side of the lane and then the other (in rapid succession) and the car "pinballs" between them in an effort to stay "in the middle" of where it thinks the lane is going to be. The AP logic might need to be adjusted to search for signs that indicate a curve in the road and if none are detected, assume that the current curvature in the road (if there is any) continues at the same rate and the car would then hold its position and not start the pinball effect between the lines it does detect. I'm sure the issue can be overcome with a software tweak, which is another reason I love my S.�
1/1/2015
guest About a week ago I was driving with my daughter and her boyfriend in the car. They wanted to see auto steer, so I engaged it on an undivided highway where neither my wife nor I would usually use it. I was surprised at how poorly it did, as compared to how well it does on the divided highways where we ordinarily use it. I turned it off just after I also received the lane departure warning!
Definitely something amiss in the programming there: the car knew that it had responsibility for steering, knew that it was getting too close to one side of the lane, but rather than correct the steering, chose to issue the warning instead. That seemed awfully close to, "Help me, help me, I can't control myself!" (So I did, by disengaging autosteer.)�
1/1/2015
guest A couple people have beat me to this now, but I was curious, for the majority of us without DRL problems to fix, why are you guys making all this effort to go to the service center hoping to get the latest update when none of us can even tell what these updates adjust? If I have version A and then update to B, but they have to release version C to fix an unintended side effect of B (but I can't tell either way), was I really better off going from A to B? Unless there's a fix or feature you want that you know is in an update, hang tight with what you have and let the update fates do their thing on their own timing. I think it's crazy to have update envy when the only thing we can tell that changed is the version number.�
1/1/2015
guest Some people love being first. Others do it for a lark. Some do it to see if they can Identify something new to expound or complain about here, or maybe make a YouTube video trying to be the next viral sensation. Some may want to see if they can prove the point an auto-initiation of an update is or isn't happening at just some or all SCs, and under what circumstances -- just because they are inquisitive souls. Perhaps some have nothing better to do. Others may live next to a SC and do it because of one of the above. ...there are so many possibilities.
Me? I find it interesting Tesla appears to have implemented some sort of geofencing to provide updates automatically to vehicles within proximity to at least some SCs. As an X-service exec myself, I find it a reasonable productivity progression saving Tesla time since its SOP to trigger the latest update whenever a Tesla is brought into service for application there or after an owner picks up their Tesla. Along your train of thought, I personally have no intention of driving a log way to get a dot release with no known benefits. OTOH, if after a day or two I don't have 8.0 when it starts to appear in the wild, you can bet I'll be headed south to park in my SC lot for 15-30 mins, hoping that triggers my receipt of the new code sooner than later.�
1/1/2015
guest Just speaking for myself I usually find something (sometimes a few things) that are fixed with each update. For example, I've noticed improvement in the Rated Range algorithm with a few of the recent updates, windshield wiper sensitivity, climate control changes, media player doesn't play all night anymore and pauses when I get out of the car. I've noticed differences with charging, Range Mode and more. None of those were in any release notes. In addition to that I'm one of those people that just has to have the latest update of anything. Updates via OTA is one of the things I love most about my car, it's awesome!�
1/1/2015
guest Most people don't care � the DRL is the most notable exception of a noticeable behavior change with the updates.
But a lot of us are just curious and want the latest and greatest, whatever that means. Some people like being the first to post here when something has changed. Others might have some nitpicks about bugs (especially if it was recently introduced) and hope that an update fixes it.
Of course, once something like 8.0 comes out, it will truly be mass hysteria.�
1/1/2015
guest It is a form of dementia, affecting all ages, caused by excess exposure to and love of technology. I suffer from it.
"If you have to ask, you'll never know" (paraphrasing Louis Armstrong)�
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