Dec 6, 2014
EarlyAdopter Still "building"...
�
Dec 6, 2014
electrish C is for cookie, D is for.....�
Dec 6, 2014
spentan Quick question, does anyone know what specification of tire the p85d comes with?�
Dec 6, 2014
gpetti Love it, even looks like me.�
Dec 6, 2014
EarlyAdopter On the 21s like you have ordered, Michelin PS2s.
Front: 245/35-21 Rear: 265/35-21
tirerack is handy for looking up these sorts of things.�
Dec 6, 2014
sundoc haha!
That's awesome! I suspect most of us are like this these days...�
Dec 6, 2014
Jaff My D is 64765...I was told it was also going into production on Dec 8th...he is not sure now and has never given me a prospective delivery date...
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Dec 6, 2014
DPDsModelS Still in the queue but it's starting to become real...
At least I know the whole experience is not just a dream!
�
Dec 6, 2014
svp6 Please, that is a selfie I took yesterday�
Dec 6, 2014
wk057 Finally got around to getting a permit, installing my HPWC to code, and getting/passing inspection for it. Now I have a legal HPWC instead of... well, nevermind. :redface:�
Dec 6, 2014
bnsky.us Hi, I am a newly registered member though I have learnt a lot from this forum over the past several months. The wait is finally becoming a reality. The tentative date for delivery of my P85D (Vin 64008) is Dec 27!!!. The HPWC is in place. Heard from my DS today. Will go into production the week of Dec 15. I am getting insurance quotes in the $1300-$1400 range. Wondered what the others feel about this?�
Dec 6, 2014
Firewired I checked several hours ago and was still in queue. Tonight out of habit checked again and now showing in production! Hopefully that is a sign that this is the week the logjam clears up. Really weird. Do you think this reflects whats going on, or a lag in the status being uploaded? I didn't think they worked on Sundays?!
�
Dec 6, 2014
berryja My delivery date suppose to be 27 Dec, have not heard from my DS, maybe 15 Dec will happen for me too! VIN 64077.�
Dec 6, 2014
lolachampcar My bet, December 12th for the first PD delivery off the spreadsheet.
Takers????�
Dec 6, 2014
AlMc Dec 11th, 10am PT. at the factory�
Dec 6, 2014
lolachampcar That sounds a lot like inside info
�
Dec 6, 2014
SigS905 Just went into production the last 30 minutes.
�
Dec 6, 2014
WindyCity My 2014 Model S P85D went into production 12/6/14. VIN 62942.�
Dec 6, 2014
RAW84 Mine finally went into production!!!
Oh, I'm dreaming of a white Christmas! White P85D on the way!�
Dec 6, 2014
mrElbe Some tiny trickle into production but no reports of production complete.�
Dec 6, 2014
AlMc Wish it was...just a wild guess.:wink:�
Dec 6, 2014
Brett I'm in production today as well. My DS said "week of 12/20" for delivery. Spreadsheet updated. I may trade in my current S85 early and bicycle / scooter it for a week or so.�
Dec 6, 2014
gpetti Well to be honest that is the safest date to bet on but just to make it interesting and to reinforce my optimism that completion is imminent for us early starters, I'm going to say the 10th for the first factory pickup. Sadly my earliet date is likely to be the 15th unless they do some expediting of the shipping process.�
Dec 6, 2014
MarcG I'll bet for Wednesday Dec. 10th at 2pm - mine :biggrin:�
Dec 6, 2014
gpetti Well I already guessed for the 10th but sadly for you I'm betting on commasign.�
Dec 6, 2014
commasign Lol. Yeah, hoping for the 10th as well though MarcG has the benefit of being able to pick it up at the factory. Even if my car is ready on the 10th they'd have to transport it to Rocklin which is 3 hours+ away with traffic. At this point I'll be happy if any one of us takes delivery since it means the rest of us won't be that far behind!�
Dec 6, 2014
Aargau If I lived in Davis I'd be picking up at the factory just minimize the delivery delay and test the Vacaville Supercharger.�
Dec 6, 2014
commasign Yeah, actually did that the first time with my P85. Fun, but don't have the time this week (especially with commute traffic) and actually plan to drive it straight to the detailer for wrap, opticoat, powdercoat, and tint. Picking up in Rocklin would save me a day.�
Dec 6, 2014
MarcG Let's see if there's any movement on Monday, which is when my DS promised to give me an update.
BTW I originally selected San Rafael as my delivery location since that would be the closest SC to home, but then decided to pick up at the factory instead to get the earliest date possible. Coincidentally (or not...) the same day I made the change, my car went into production�
Dec 6, 2014
jgsuperstar29 FWIW, my car went into production on 11/21 (first production date in the spreadsheet) and it appears I was the first Fremont pickup to go into production listed. Naturally, at the time I was pretty excited thinking that I might be one of the first to actually get my D since all the other Ds that went into production that day were to be delivered to other locations.
On Monday 12/1 I was given a Friday 12/12 pickup date by my DS, but then on 12/5 got the dreaded message from my DS that it's not going to be ready by 12/12 after all (and no new date was given).
So I guess what I'm saying is that I'd be (pleasantly) very surprised if MarcG actually got his car on 12/10...but I'm definitely keeping my fingers crossed for you because that would be a great sign for everyone here!�
Dec 6, 2014
redp85d I would imagine Elon handing the key fobs with an apology :tongue: well he did it for the Chinese buyers!! How long had they been waiting 6 months ??�
Dec 6, 2014
gpetti Whoops I should have looked at the geography better when I picked a "horse". I think Redox is also a fairly early Fremont pickup? I'm tempted to change mine to a Fremont pickup now�
Dec 6, 2014
MarcG Did you find out at what stage of production your car is currently in? As of yesterday (Friday 12/5) mine was in "late stages of assembly", which is apparently only followed by inspection and delivered prep. I'm still hopeful for 12/10 given that's what my DS originally scheduled way back on 11/26, the day after it went into production, and he hasn't officially cancelled it yet. Only time will tell so let's see what happens next week!�
Dec 6, 2014
dennis Well hopefully no one who has had to wait for a P85D smashes the windshield like that guy in China did. :redface:�
Dec 6, 2014
jgsuperstar29 No info as to what stage it's in unfortunately. This time around I seem to be stuck with a very uncommunicative DS...she takes several days to respond to my messages and gives me pretty much no info...my first DS for my current car was 100x better...it's too bad there's so much inconsistency with the DSs, but that's a story for another thread...�
Dec 6, 2014
403portside Feeling the same way about mine jg. Thinking about asking for a different one�
Dec 7, 2014
redp85d Haha given that we have better tools here :cursing:
�
Dec 7, 2014
redox I had an appointment set up for 12/3 @ 2pm, which got cancelled the day before.
Since noone wants to say anything over there at the factory, I figured we can come up with a few "real reasons" ourselves...
"The intern crashed it"
or
"It got swallowed by a sinkhole"
-- Greg�
Dec 7, 2014
lolachampcar I've yet to say it but thank you to all of you that are sorting though all these issues before Tesla has to build my car!!
I am looking forward to all of you getting perfect cars with follow on posts of ecstasy.�
Dec 7, 2014
3s-a-charm "The office dog ate it."�
Dec 7, 2014
AlMc "Release will occur when firmware 7.0 has been beta tested"...in other words...'soon'�
Dec 7, 2014
mrElbe There is a delay from the exhaust pipe chrome tips supplier.�
Dec 7, 2014
NigelM Moderator: discussion on cable storage went here - Auto-Retractor-for-Charging-Cable�
Dec 7, 2014
Lump First P85D was delivered on Friday, owner & car is at motor4toys event
Black P85D is dealer car�
Dec 7, 2014
dennis Great spot!�
Dec 7, 2014
sundoc
Wow! This is GREAT news!!
Where is this?
And what is a dealer car? Purchased by a used car dealership for resale?
- - - Updated - - -
Do they come with that blue/transparent sticker on them? Maybe THAT sticker is causing the hold up.�
Dec 7, 2014
lolachampcar I'm happy to say "I loose"�
Dec 7, 2014
andrewket I'd love to get confirmation that the car is indeed a customer car. There is nothing in the picture to say one way or another (tags, temp tag, etc). If anyone knows who owns this car please have them get on this thread.�
Dec 7, 2014
AlMc you and I both!�
Dec 7, 2014
gg_got_a_tesla All Tesla-owned cars have the Calif. MFG plates (with the same number 63177 something). Only customer cars come with the Zero Emissions placard instead.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 Still, wouldn't there be a temp-tag/reg in the back glass?
Edit: I'll be skeptical until someone here/on the spreadsheet takes delivery... I feel a good enough percentage of P85D buyers are here to use that as a metric.�
Dec 7, 2014
Lump Woodland Hills�
Dec 7, 2014
dennis Not in CA. It is placed inside the windshield on the passenger side.�
Dec 7, 2014
gg_got_a_tesla In CA, the temp tag is placed on the front windshield. This looks legit to me.
@Lump, any chance you noted the VIN?!�
Dec 7, 2014
andrewket Yep, I'm skeptical too. But hopeful... If it's true it could mean other cars with ship tomorrow.�
Dec 7, 2014
Lump Window sticker is 242�
Dec 7, 2014
3s-a-charm This is great news! Let's hope the log-jam is now clear and the Ds begin flowing!�
Dec 7, 2014
Lump Toys
�
Dec 7, 2014
spentan With all the discussion about it in this thread, I'm considering flying up to Fremont and driving the car back.
Would this be much quicker than a So Cal delivery? Thoughts?�
Dec 7, 2014
gg_got_a_tesla You may gain a couple of days this way. And, get a factory tour too if interested.�
Dec 7, 2014
spentan Did a factory tour in Sep 2013, not sure if I'd do it again cos I'd hope for it to just be a quick day trip�
Dec 7, 2014
EarlyAdopter I hope he or she brought twice as many toys for motor4toys since they brought two motors. ;-)�
Dec 7, 2014
redp85d Looks like Lump made sure he was taking the toys and not the car !! 1st sighted personal P85D I think black seats....of course spoiler/21" Grey/Pano ??�
Dec 7, 2014
MichelT Ordered: 11/26/2014
Confirmed: 11/26/2014
Estimated delivery: Late December
Scheduled delivery date: 12/29
Actual delivery date: -
Delivery location: Fremont, CA
Color: White
Wheels: 19" base
Interior: Tan, black headliner
Options: Tech Package with Autopilot, Panoramic roof�
Dec 7, 2014
andrewket It certainly is a lot more fun�
Dec 7, 2014
gpetti Not sur if you got to talk to he or she but I'm wondering if this car could have come out before things were put on hold? A day earlier and mine might have been shipped - similarly if Redoxs appointment had been a day earlier, he might have his car. I guess it also true that the DSs didn't know that there as any problem until the cars were not ready as expected.�
Dec 7, 2014
crazybrit Or... some vehicles have issues, some don't�
Dec 7, 2014
breser Just wanted to note in here that the order page now has EPA mileage on it and it has this disclaimer:
"Range shown for 85D and P85D is estimated, pending EPA confirmation. Range decreases when Model S is equipped with 21" wheels and summer sport tires."
Could be that the delay is EPA confirmation. But that seems strange if there really is a customer car already delivered, but maybe the confirmation came in on Friday and they had the website ready to go with the disclaimer.�
Dec 7, 2014
lolachampcar or that car had 19s (?????)�
Dec 7, 2014
dennis The * for the disclaimer is on all 85D and P85D EPA range numbers, not just the 21" wheels one.�
Dec 7, 2014
sundoc
And the plot thickens! Haha
The Canadian site doesn't have that disclaimer on it yet... But our site is always delayed in updating.�
Dec 7, 2014
gpetti It's specifying an estimation for 19s (250) and 21s (242) both pending confirmation.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 Interesting. I will be quite a bit disappointed if the final EPA number for the P85D are significantly lower than the original quoted 285 miles. I notice the 85D no longer says 295 miles also.
Part of the reasoning behind the trade up was definitely the promise of slightly increased range. If that is no longer the case I think some type of compensation would definitely be in order since we're not getting what was advertised.�
Dec 7, 2014
darthy001 @sundoc Is the EPA in Canada as well?
- - - Updated - - -
EPA-sticker says increased range for highway. Lower range for city.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 Yeah, I'll expand on my last post a little...
I'll definitely feel very mislead by Tesla on this car if a few things happen... if the EPA range is lower than the P85 when it was promised to be more efficient, that is a pretty big one. If it turns out the demonstrated auto pilot features that are promised in "several months" take significantly more time to work on my car (as in not before spring '15 I'd say) also, I'll probably have lost a significant amount of faith in Tesla.
The dash on my P85 goes by EPA rated miles... so if I have a P85D and charge to 90% with 21" rims, is my dash going to say 217 miles? If so that is not a range increase from the 237 my P85 says. That's 20 miles LESS.
- - - Updated - - -
Granted, I dislike the entire concept of rated miles. I'd much rather the dash show me a percentage or kWh remaining, personally. But that's not what I'm getting at here. Advertised when I confirmed my order was 285 miles of range. Now the highest advertised is 250. Where'd the 35 miles go?
I feel worse for people who ordered the 85D looking at the 295 miles of range that just got slashed back to the range of the regular 85...�
Dec 7, 2014
dennis The 285 and 295 numbers previously posted on the Tesla site were for a constant 65 mph, not the EPA cycle which varies speed, acceleration, use of AC, etc. and has at least 50% "city" driving profiles. It has been pointed out on the thread specifically about this subject that the P85D has better EPA MPGe on the highway than the S 85. So you may have additional range where it counts the most, especially if you equip it with 19's.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 I suppose I'll see how it stacks up to my P85 when I drive it down to NC after I pick it up (600 miles of interstate driving). I am curious as to what the dash will read on the D though since the P85 uses EPA miles. I really wish it would just show Wh remaining or a %.
I've also driven a P85 with 21's on the same route, so, we'll see.�
Dec 7, 2014
Andyw2100
I'm confused. Part of my confusion comes from the fact that I've never owned a Tesla, and have driven one once, for about ten minutes, and was not paying close attention to the range figures, etc.
I have been paying fairly close attention to this thread. (Edit--By this thread I meant the thread that was talking specifically about the EPA stuff--this one--http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/37965-Range-Reduced-on-Dual-Motor-Configs/ --, which is where I thought I was posting. Mods--feel free to move this there if you like. I apologize.) I thought that the range figures displayed in the car, by the car's computer, basically had nothing to do with any EPA ratings. I thought that except for what Tesla had to show on the sticker, the EPA ratings didn't really matter that much, and I had been satisfied by the points others here had made that the P85D I had purchased was actually going to have as much or more range than I had expected it to because it was going to do better on the highway than previous models, and worse in the city, but that that would work out fine, since it was highway driving where you really needed the range.
Now while I realize that the EPA stuff doesn't change the actual capacity of the battery (I'm not a moron), if somehow the EPA stuff is going to change by a significant amount what we see as "range available" when we charge to, say, 90%, I guess I am concerned. Because it seems like that will just introduce more estimation error into everything, and we'll be able to "trust" what the car's computer is telling us less than we would have been able to. And with a 100% charge, the car's never going to tell us we have 285 (or close to it) miles of range, but will max out at 250 (or close to it) miles of range (with the 19 inch wheels), which is a very significant difference.
I see this as a problem.
Am I misunderstanding something? I easily could be, as again, I do not have a Tesla, and have spent almost no time behind the wheel of one.
Thanks.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 This is why I say rated miles are pretty pointless. We need a universal capacity measurement. A percentage, kWh or Wh remaining, etc. Adding along side that an estimate based on the past 50 miles of driving or something like that would make sense, but the capacity measurement should be in units of capacity, not distance...
(Sorry for derailing the tracking thread...)�
Dec 7, 2014
Andyw2100 When this new EPA rating came out just now, does that mean that Tesla has to update the software on all the P85Ds being produced, and also presumably all the other Model Ss that are affected so that the correct range is displayed based on these new EPA numbers?�
Dec 7, 2014
dennis The 295 number was stated on the website to be at a constant 65 mph. There was also a constant 65mph number given for the regular 85, which I believe was 285, a difference of 10, not 30. The sticker of the P85D shows worse MPGe in the City and better MPGe on the highway, indicating that the car is more efficient when cruising, but less efficient when accelerating because of the additional weight of the AWD drivetrain. So the actual range achieved in highway driving by the 85D could very well be better than the 85.
As the saying goes, figures don't lie but liars figure. We can expect any company, including Tesla, to cast numbers in the best possible light. It isn't quite lying, but it is marketing. YMMV.
- - - Updated - - -
The P85D is the only new number. The 60 and the 85 are unchanged, and the 85D has the same EPA rating as the 85.�
Dec 7, 2014
403portside +100, I agree with Osama.
I'm very frustrated. I took a bath on my perfect P85+ to order the P85D and my expectation is that the car delivers what was marketed to me when I took another leap of faith and placed an order for another $100K car from them.
It's no longer sufficient for us customers to 'just be content' for being early adopters, yada, yada. We are making luxury car purchase decisions like the mass market makes decisions to upgrade to the latest iPhone. This type of behavior is unprecedented in the auto industry, so Tesla needs to realize that and frankly should be held to 0 margin of error for something as important as range. It's like a manufacturer getting a horsepower number wrong. It's unacceptable.�
Dec 7, 2014
Andyw2100 Thanks for clearing that up. I think my head is still spinning a bit from all this new information.
I'm trying not to become a victim of range anxiety before I even take delivery of my P85D. The more I think about this, though, and the more I learn about the way available range is displayed in the Tesla, the more I realize the following:
It seems range anxiety is really one of the biggest reasons a lot of people won't consider an all electric vehicle. There are a couple of things Tesla could do to ease range anxiety concerns. One would be to have superchargers every 100 miles on every road every where. But clearly that's not going to happen any time soon, and probably, at least to the extent of "every road every where" ever, and that's fine.
But the other thing they could do, which they say they are moving towards, but how fast and how well is yet to be seen, is give us much better tools via software that would really alleviate our concerns. I know improvements are on the horizon, but I fear they may not go far enough. You should be able to enter a destination into the system and have it then figure out, based on the weight in the car, the elevation, the current weather conditions, etc., how fast you can go, what temperature you can heat the car to, etc., to make it to your destination or the next supercharger with a buffer of x%. You should be able to enter the speed that you'd like to travel (perhaps relative to the speed limit) and if you are exceeding that speed have the car alert you to that for purposes of range planning, much like the alert that is now possible simply for speeding. With the right tools available via software, I think most range anxiety could be eliminated or at least reduced significantly.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 I've actually said to myself and discussed with my fiance that if delivery is not going to be next week that I'm probably going to cancel (and forfeit the deposit) and just wait until the auto pilot stuff works as demonstrated before placing an order again.
I've earmarked the funds for the trade-up for that purpose, but it is not a necessary purchase and I could put those funds to better use in the meantime instead of putting miles on a new car and causing more depreciation when it won't even have all of the features I will have paid for yet.
The autopilot stuff was a huge part of my decision to upgrade. The promised increase in range was next with the AWD and added performance right behind that. Considering that I can get no details on when lane-holding autopilot will be available on my car, range estimates dropping, and delays continuing with no solid information I'm on the brink of pulling the plug (no pun intended) on the P85D order. The performance and range increases were to be what would hold me over until the autopilot features were ready... but the appeal is diminishing with each day delay.
For me, as I've mentioned previously, I'm working delivery into a break in my December vacation plans. Drive to Devon, do the trade-in/delivery, drive back in the P85D. Best case, a day and change spent doing so. Worst case a couple of days. Not knowing exactly when that is going to be has already screwed up part of this vacation already. I wasn't even supposed to be here this weekend since my original delivery was planned as 12/5 @ 12PM. Plans were made accordingly. Now I'm told the 12th... and if that gets pushed back again I'll probably cancel. Not going to keep screwing up my vacation over this for one when logically I should have just waited anyway. Nothing wrong with my existing P85, no real excuse to spend the ~$60k for the upgrade other than to have the cool new features.
I'm writing this a bit irritated because of weekend vacation plans that were botched by this delay, since I'm here and could have been doing something that was planned for next weekend, instead I'm just killing time and next weekend is up in the air.
So, need some good news this week or I'm done.�
Dec 7, 2014
spentan I think everyone is stressing a little too much. Let's wait for an actual customer p85d then we can have more accurate information.
I do a lot of highway driving anyway, so I'm not fussed�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 All that aside, some solid information and communication from Tesla would definitely go a long way. The lack of a reason behind the delay and conflicting reasons given to different people is ridiculous. When I'm told that my $134,000 purchase is going to be delayed it a) better be for a good reason and b) I should very well know that reason...�
Dec 7, 2014
stevezzzz Agreed. If it weren't for the end-of-year issues, seems to me that you could just go on your vacation and take delivery when you get back. Tesla shouldn't have a beef with the delay: it's their snafu, not yours.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 Yeah, well, delivery before the end of the year is mandatory as far as I'm concerned. While I may be persuaded not to cancel if I don't have the car this coming weekend, if I don't have it December 31st there is not going to be anything Tesla can do to stop me from cancelling except a $7500 discount on the purchase price. (Long story short I won't likely be able to claim the full credit for 2015 due to some changes in my tax situation.)
Edit: For clarification, my vacation extends to a week or so beyond the new year.�
Dec 7, 2014
NOLA_Mike I understand this sentiment. I share this sentiment somewhat.
The problem with acting on it is that when you step back and think about your options, whatever you buy (ICE) won't be a Tesla and the whole time you're driving it you'll likely be regretting not waiting out the Tesla issues.
Two weeks now of "In Production" with no real information other than speculation...�
Dec 7, 2014
dennis You are experiencing the pain of an early adopter of highly advanced products from a startup company that is growing very fast. I think you will find that almost everyone here who has lived through the lack of communication, missed dates and unfulfilled promises, but who owns a Model S, would make the purchase again in a heartbeat. Once you have the car, the joy of electric driving and bypassing gas stations forever more than overcomes any disappointments in Tesla's imperfect execution. And IMO Tesla's house is more in order than most ICE manufacturers (faulty ignition switches, exploding airbags anyone?).�
Dec 7, 2014
CHGolferJim Two thoughts: 1) Can you guys that are rightly pissed request a delay in delivery of x months without losing your deposit (and possibly get a "more reliable" car made after these production wrinkles are ironed out), and/or 2) appoint a legal agent (attorney, etc.) to take delivery of your car when you're out of town at year-end?�
Dec 7, 2014
andrewket I sensed that the tenor of the thread shifted a bit this evening, so I took it upon myself to email Jerome on behalf of our "group". Here is what I wrote:
"Jerome,
I hope this note finds you well. As you may recall, I'm waiting on a P85D that I ordered at the LA "D" event. I, along with 185 other Tesla customers have been tracking the progress of our P85D orders and sharing our experience on the Tesla Motor Club forum, which I'm sure you're familiar with.
We are some of your biggest supporters and early adopters, and we understand that building the P85D consistently at scale is a huge challenge. This is why when we heard that P85Ds were being delayed we were disappointed, but understood. As the new flagship car, the P85D has to be perfect. It will no doubt garner significant media attention over the next month. Tesla wants positive press, and so do we, since we're almost all (if not all..) Tesla investors as well.
Having said the above, the lack of consistent communication is starting to wear on many of your customers. The discussion on the forum turned today from speculation to the cause of the delay (always a fun pastime), to several individuals sharing their discontentment and that they are considering canceling their orders. Several of us sold our previous Model S's and have made holiday travel plans around our scheduled delivery dates, some of which have now passed while others have been canceled without additional information being provided.
Without causing Tesla any harm, we would greatly appreciate an explanation as to the cause of the delay, and an estimate as to when P85D deliveries are expected to begin. The delivery specialists seem to be operating without much information from HQ, and appear to be as frustrated as we are. They are generally a great group of people, and are doing their best to manage customer expectations. But without consistent and accurate information, there is only so much they can do.
Thanks for your time.
Andrew"
If I get a reply, I will ask permission to share it verbatim, otherwise I'll paraphrase...
�
Dec 7, 2014
CHGolferJim Excellent initiative, Andrew.�
Dec 7, 2014
spentan Osama,
I really recommend going with the tesla, no matter what.
I've had heaps of cars,
2001 Mazda Tribute, 2006 300c, 2004 bmw 745i, 2009 HSV Grange, 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee overland, 2012 300c, 2013 jeep srt8, 2014 jeep srt8
Then I got a 2012 p85, then a 2013 p85, then a 2015 s550. Now going back to the 2014 p85d.
I can guarantee no other car has been as amazing as the model s�
Dec 7, 2014
lolachampcar WRT range, I could care less if the around town range drops by a few percent on my PD. I charge at night and never "around town" the battery to empty in a day. I do care that the car gets BETTER range on the highway as that is when I am going somewhere and range actually matters to me. In short, I'm ok with this and think Tesla has delivered on the idea that they can do a 3.1 sec car that compromises NOTHING to my old P+.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 Thanks Andrew. I hope you get a response.
As a current owner of two P85s (mine and my fiance's) I agree that once you actually get the car you won't want anything else ever again.
In my particular situation I've never actually gone through the "order and wait" process. I literally drove my P85 off from the King of Prussia store the night I went in and test drove it. (Brought it back to the service center later for detailing and actual "delivery" but I wasn't without the car for more than a day really.)
For my fiance's I purchased it used with ~2k miles at a decent price in mint condition with the exact configuration she wanted.
Overall, they're the best vehicles on the planet. Nothing can compare, except maybe the P85D... hence the reason for ordering.
So my sales-side experience has been pretty limited with the ordering process. The P85D is the only one I've ordered and waited on and I'm definitely not impressed thus far with this process. I hate to say this, but, the ICE dealership model of going to grab the car you want when you want it model is better than this. Waiting ambiguous amounts of time for delivery of a high end relatively expensive vehicle is not really the best situation. When I placed the order, the best time frame I was given? "December." Took a while after that to get a narrowed date, which has then slipped twice (first 5th, slip to 10th, slip to 12th) and the last date does not feel solid at all as of now since as far as I know (am pretty sure?) the car is still in California and has near zero chance of making it to my delivery location by the 12th, which will certainly prompt another date slippage.
Fortunately I still have my P85 and haven't sold or traded it yet. So, I'm not hurting for a vehicle. But at the same time I have no practical reason to spend a net ~$60k on a new updated vehicle either. This is nothing but a very luxury-priced impulse buy on my part, one which I am questioning more and more as the delay persists (and consequently foils more vacation plans).
That said, while I'm irritated, I'm not likely to actually cancel if I can get a solid delivery date soon. Another slip, though, and I'll throw in the towel.
@osama: If you do decide to cancel, I would definitely consider it carefully. While I would be cancelling but still have my P85, you would be cancelling and being left with... well, not a P85. The fact that I already have my P85 would definitely be a factor in my decision to cancel if it were to come to it. But, I can't see myself driving a non-Tesla at this point. Nothing else comes close.�
Dec 7, 2014
lolachampcar wk,
How about a mid point. Just tell Tesla they have missed your window and reschedule for later down the road. If you are going to miss your 2014 Fed Tax Credit deadline, you might as well get a 2015 ViN, all your autopilot features and some of the initial bugs worked out. And yes, I expect initial bugs. Tesla releases early and often with predictable results
The above keeps you from loosing your $2500 deposit.�
Dec 7, 2014
pdx I think the range stuff will get sorted but +100 to the comments on delays and lack of communication. I'm still driving my P85+ and I'm fully expecting to take a bath on it when I sell it. I was willing to do that because I love Tesla and my current car. The promise of an even better Model S was too much to resist but I too am now on the fence with my order. I've been "Production Complete" since 11/26 but I, like others, don't have a delivery date yet.
I'm basically spending 50k on an upgrade and now I'm having second thoughts.
Thanks Andrew for sending a message on our behalf.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 I thought about this, although since they've already assigned me a 2014 VIN I'm not 100% sure how that would work. Hopefully I don't have to do anything anyway... edit: also as I mentioned, the credit is likely useless for me next year... not sure I want to spend an additional $7500 on top of the loss I'm taking on the P85 trade... as it stands, after the credits on both I'll basically be spending about $155k net on the P85D... (P85 cost + P85D cost - two credits - P85 trade). Fortunately Tesla is sales tax exempt in NJ.�
Dec 7, 2014
CalDreamin Tesla did not claim 285 miles EPA range for the P85D. Tesla claimed 285 miles range at 65 mph.
EPA doesn't report range at 65 mph. However EPA does report MPGe for city, highway, and combined city/highway, which are measures of efficiency. For those, EPA ratings are:
S85 and P85 - 88 city, 90 highway, 89 combined city/highway
P85D - 86 city, 94 highway, 89 combined city/highway (unofficial, not yet officially sanctioned by EPA)
So on the highway the P85D is estimated to be (94-90)/90 = 4% more efficient than the S85 or P85.
For myself, the only time the range of my S85 is constraining is on long highway trips I take a few times per year. For my long road trips, the highway efficiency is what matters. The car's range in stop-and-go city traffic is irrelevant for those trips. For highway trips it sounds like the P85D would have slightly more range than an S85 or P85.
For my day-to-day driving that is a combination of city and highway driving, I'm not range limited. I charge to 80% each night and that is more than enough. Even if the city efficiency was a little worse, it wouldn't constrain my driving at all.�
Dec 7, 2014
breser As one of those people I don't understand that at all. It was only 295 miles for a week or two max. Then it was 285 at 65 mph constant. Now it's 265 EPA. I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning that the EPA numbers would be lower. People were comparing the 295 to the 265 so Tesla finally put numbers so you could compare and it was only 275 (S85) vs 285 (S85D) at 65 mph constant. As far as I'm concerned I'm just happy that the 85D hasn't lost any range really.
I said way back when after the D even that nobody should be buying a D on the basis of increased range until the EPA number came in.
Say what? The 85D is a new number. I don't think Tesla is recycling the S85 number here. If they were going to do that they'd have just put up 265 to begin with.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 The basics behind it were that the D was more efficient, and thus have more range. If this is the case, why isn't it reflected in the EPA numbers? Sure, it is more efficient at highway speeds and that is what we need generally, but, it is disappointing that the numbers don't stack up to reflect this appropriately.
Specifically with the 85D, it was advertised with 295 for a while, and I'm sure a lot of people bought based on that increase only now to see that the EPA range is the same as the regular 85... disappointing at the very least that none of the EPA range numbers reflect the hyped increase in efficiency of Tesla's AWD setup.�
Dec 7, 2014
redox Communication is clearly not their strongest suit. I hope things will unclog this coming week. Everyone (here) is anxiously waiting!
-- Greg�
Dec 7, 2014
gpetti + 1�
Dec 7, 2014
mrElbe Excellent letter, Andrew. It expresses our state of mind to the fullest at the moment. Thanks for writing this.�
Dec 7, 2014
sundoc @Andrew
Thanks for penning that letter. Let's hope you get a response which sheds at least a little light on what's going on.
While I eagerly await my D, I know that the delay is something which will invariably be beneficial in the long run, be it an EPA issue, a fit and finish issue or whatever else. Having said that some communication wouldn't hurt though, especially since I'm pretty sure my car is completed and sitting there (as are several others).
In my personal situation, I've actually been waiting since July 27, when I placed my order for the P85+... Went through the factory shut down, followed by slow start up and then switched out/upgraded to the P85D the day it became available. So yeah it's been a little bit of a wait but as I've stated elsewhere... There could be much worse things we're sitting around waiting for.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 The better and more anticipated the thing you're anxiously waiting for is, the harder the wait.�
Dec 7, 2014
electrish @Andrew, thanks for writing the letter, which eloquently expresses the concerns raised in this forum.
@wk057, I really feel your pain. I think that problems with communication are at the root of almost all interpersonal problems and can't understand why Tesla doesn't proactively address the issues.
My great fear is that the problem, whatever it is, may actually be worse than we think. Unless the spreadsheet is highly weighted towards orders fulfilled during the first week of production, I don't see the silver lining yet, since 50% less vehicles went into production during the second week compared with the first week. I guess, events during the upcoming week will be telling, and I'll keep my fingers crossed!�
Dec 7, 2014
AWDtsla
Just let it come when it does then publicly smash it up with a bat, like that spoiled brat from China.�
Dec 7, 2014
403portside FWIW, my DS told me today that at least 200 cars are done and waiting at the factory in storage. Not sure if this is redundant info.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 Seems like more random info that can't be corroborated to file under "Excuses from DS's."�
Dec 7, 2014
403portside Ummm...I don't think she would have lied about it. I wasn't asking her to speculate on anything and she just offered it up, so I think it could be credible.�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 It would make no sense to me to have the cars piled up at the factory.
They could ship them to the service centers and store them there until whatever paperwork/EPA/whatever needed doing before delivering them, and they would be ready for customers as soon as that was done.
Even if there were a software issue... ship them and fix it before delivery.
Hardware issue... ship them, then overnight the parts to the service centers, have them fix before delivery.
Major technical issue... sit them at the factory?
Makes little sense to me unless there is some major screw up at work here.
- - - Updated - - -
Didn't say it was a lie, just said it was yet another piece of info from a DS we have no way to confirm... and a piece of information that doesn't make a lot of sense (see above).�
Dec 7, 2014
403portside That's fair. Wouldn't the Moroney sticker issue be enough to hold them back?�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 Stickers would fit nicely into an overnight envelope... makes no sense to physically hold the entire car at the factory because it lacks a sticker when they could just as easily be shipped and stored at the delivery location until that issue was straightened out and be ready with limited delay.
Thus far no DS explanation makes enough sense yet, as far as I can tell.
- - - Updated - - -
Heck, those stickers are just printed on large paper anyway... the service centers have printers. Print them when it's done and give me my car. lol�
Dec 7, 2014
403portside I don't think the issue is physical logistics. I think the issue is about letting cars that have *some* issue leave the factory. I think nailing every aspect of these initial P85Ds will be crucial for them.
In other words, it's a philosophical issue for them�
Dec 7, 2014
Andyw2100 Just playing devil's advocate here, but I think if they did have a hardware issue it might be a lot better for them to just keep the cars there and fix them there and deliver them all a week or two later and deal with the customers being a little disappointed about getting their cars a week or two later as opposed to having to deal with the possible news stories about "Tesla New Top Of The Line P85D Needs Repairs Before They Can Even Be Delivered."
I mean right now we're the only ones who have any real inkling that there has been any sort of delay. But if Tesla started shipping the cars all around the US and Canada, and then had to fix them before letting customers take delivery, I could definitely see that leading to bad press. If you were Elon Musk in this hypothetical situation where your P85D that you're so proud of has a problem right out of the gate, wouldn't you want to keep control of it, by keeping the cars at the factory?�
Dec 7, 2014
wk057 Probably makes sense in the sense of a major hardware flaw. If there is a major hardware flaw, however... well, that just doesn't bode well period.
If it were something relatively simple (say, less than 1 hour of labor to correct at a service center) it would still make sense to ship and then fix.
But if they're seriously not shipping cars from the factory simply because they lack the monroney sticker then I want to slap Elon Musk around a bit with a large trout.�
Dec 7, 2014
nolancn My thoughts exactly! I strongly suspect that the P85D will deliver at the very least similar range as the S85, but I am hoping for an approximate 4% increase in highway range over my now traded S85.�
Dec 7, 2014
andrewket In the states where Tesla is not allowed to sell direct, the transaction must complete while the car is in California. It's possible that the issue, whatever it is, does not allow Tesla to legally sell the car. Thus, the car must remain in California until the issue is resolved. For the states where Tesla can sell direct, Tesla may have decided that shipping the cars to the field represents too much risk that the transaction might accidentally be completed before the issue is resolved.
It's also possible that the cars are all 99% complete, and are just waiting for one last part. Next Gen seats, perhaps. We've seen the front seats on several cars, but very few rear seats.�
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