May 1, 2013
Ingineer I haven't yet had the time or a loaner Model-S to reverse engineer the Supercharger protocol, which is needed to build a CHAdeMO to S converter. If anyone in the Bay Area wants to loan me their S to take a trip to the Folsom Supercharger, that would be very helpful!
Yes, there are some awfully expensive connectors involved, though it does look like it might be possible to use one off a UMC for the S side. Tesla also will sell one in the form of a Roadster HPC adapter. Unfortunately the CHAdeMO inlet is pricey.
It's correct that there would be no need for power conversion, and most CHAdeMO stations can handle about 50kW.
-Phil�
Jun 22, 2013
saprolf A few month ago I had contact with an engineer at Tesla that is responsible for the construction of all car connectors. Due to the fact that now Tesla does not support the J1772e combo plug anymore they intended to support the CHAdeMo for the Japan roll-out.
The point is that he is now busy with the Mennekes EU IEC 62196-2 plug construction. This plug will be supported in EU as standard. Elon also said this at a meeting in Norway.
For the engineer I pointed out that we had 120 CHAdeMOs already in the US (at this time might be more today) and these Japanese stations are keep coming. I would wish to have this adapter earlier that later, because 50KW is 150% faster than my on board twin chargers. If someone gets better know please post here.�
Jun 22, 2013
Cosmacelf Well, did he say he was building a US adapter?�
Jun 22, 2013
ChadS A Tesla engineer said they intended to build one (as well as an SAE adapter) for Supercharger-capable vehicles about a year ago. I followed up with Tesla corporate to get confirmation; at the time they said Lars was not supposed to be talking about it and they couldn't comment, but they did confirm that they intended for the Model S to be "omnivorous" when it came to charging sources.
A few days later I was talking to a Tesla employee that said he had seen a CHAdeMO adapter, although it obviously wasn't ready for market and he didn't know when it would be.
Charging for hours at 30A next to a free CHAdeMO station is starting to lose its charm.�
Jun 22, 2013
Cosmacelf Stories like this and also another story I heard that the Model X development team was pulled off the Model X for about 3 months to fix Model S faults (I have no idea how accurate this story is), makes me realize just how much of a startup Tesla still is.�
Jun 22, 2013
highfalutintodd Screwups, lack of communication, priority shifts, product delays, strategy changes, and resource reallocation are hardly the sole domain of a startup. Ask just about anyone at any company ever. The seemingly better ones just do a better job of hiding it from the public.�
Jun 22, 2013
brianman It never had charm to lose.�
Jun 23, 2013
stopcrazypp Well, the Japan Model S launch is in the second half of this year so they should at least have it in prototype stage if they want to release one anytime soon.
As for the other comments, given a year has passed, it's not likely to be accurate for the current plans.�
Jun 23, 2013
ChadS My only other comment was that they said they were intending to give us an adapter. So if I am not misreading something, your take is that Tesla used to want to give us an adapter - but now even though they are building one they have likely changed their minds.
I didn't expect the adapter right away - but I very definitely do expect one. Not having one is why so few of my friends are considering the car - they see how ridiculously long my trips take, and they want to wait for the DC standards issue to "get settled" (an adapter would settle it). I love Superchargers and I am willing to wait for them to arrive on the routes they cover - but there are many trips I will never be able to take using only Superchargers, so the CHAdeMO adapter will always be a critical component to allow us owners to get around.
UPDATE: Us talking about it on these forums can never resolve this (at least, it hasn't after 600 posts in this thread :wink. Only Tesla can say whether they will build the adapter or not, so I am sending a message to corporate. I had been hoping that one of the last two announcements would give us some hints, but no luck.
�
Jun 23, 2013
Cosmacelf FWIW, a Tesla employee, not in engineering, but who talks to engineering, told me recently that there are plans to make a US CHAdeMO adapter for DC fast charge. Plans can change, of course, and the info might not be reliable. But at least there's hope�
Jun 23, 2013
stopcrazypp I'm not really saying they are changing their minds, just that whatever was specifically said back then likely doesn't apply after a whole year with no movement. Plus the message was never consistent. Early on, engineers had a negative opinion about CHAdeMO, but then you also had the corporate line that the car can charge anywhere. And then throughout this thread there's some reps that say there definitely will be a US market CHAdeMO adapter, but some that say there will not be.
Definitely only Tesla can say. I'm actually not sure how effective repeat individual communication is (outside of the first contact just so Tesla has statistics on demand) esp. for a feature that never was a hard promise (CHAdeMO support was never advertised on the website nor to the press directly).
The way people got movement on 3-phase support was to have a joint letter that they made sure corporate got. And they made it abundantly clear it was a deal breaker (as in they will cancel reservations) and also cited examples why. Might be a bit late for that now as it looks like Tesla won't really be able to move the time frame any quicker than the Japanese launch. I guess the current thing is to wait for the Japanese version to come out (which seems fairly certain) and if Tesla doesn't release a US version then more energy can be focused then to get one here.�
Jun 23, 2013
brianman And even that doesn't provide certainty. Sunshade? Rear console?�
Jun 24, 2013
PhilBa +1 brian. Fast growing companies often have selective amnesia about past promises.�
Jun 24, 2013
TonyWilliams With the impending Japan release of Model S, at some point they need to check to make sure their equipment works, right?
A little birdie told me that a certain DC CHAdeMO charger in SoCal pulled 35kWh from 6pm to about 8:30pm Friday.
Discuss.�
Jun 24, 2013
brianman We have no data suggesting the Japan solution for CHAdeMO will work with North American vehicles.�
Jun 24, 2013
qwk Good news! Hopefully Tesla puts it up for sale soon, that should pretty much kill the frankenplug dream.�
Jun 25, 2013
cwerdna I sure hope that it was one vehicle that pulled that. Tesla releasing a CHadeMO adapter in Japan, the US and Europe would help put a nail in the coffin of Frankenplug.�
Jun 25, 2013
jerry33 Of course, we also have no evidence that it won't.�
Jun 25, 2013
jkirkebo Well, 35kWh in 2,5 hours sure won't entice me to buy such an adapter...�
Jun 25, 2013
TonyWilliams That was the total connect time. For any power source, you can simply multiply the rate of delivery over time to get the total kWh delivered. There's always going to be some losses, so for easy figuring, lets say 95% efficient (delivered to car versus stored in car).
CHAdeMO is currently spec'd for 62.5kW, or about two thirds of 90kW and half of the 120kW Superchargers. It's design spec is 100kW.
You can expect to typically pull 48kW from most CHAdeMO currently deployed. To "fill up / top off" would be just under two hours. A fill up at 90kW is about an hour, and obviously quicker at 120kW.
There's no rocket science here (even if the adaptor came from a rocket science lab).
You're absolute fastest "plan C" is 80 amp AC in the USA / Canada, at under 20kW with 90% efficiency, and there are virtually ZERO of those in the wild. Yes, I'm painfully aware of the more robust three phase options in Norway and the rest of Europe, however I don't expect the charger to output anything more than 10kW each, whatever the AC power source.
Just like any charging resource in the wild, you're generally only going to sit there long enough to get home (or the next spot).�
Jun 25, 2013
ChadS I got an answer...and as expected, it is still officially "we can neither confirm nor deny".
However, they did also go out of their way to indicate they were very aware of customer demand, and they suspect that will grow. And that they want to address impediments to sales. So while they didn't actually say so, I feel pretty comfortable that they will offer one in the US; I just don't know when.�
Jun 25, 2013
DouglasR Chad, I believe you were at the Tech Talk in Seattle today. Lance was pretty definite that 1) they are working on an adapter, and 2) it will be available in the U.S., although he couldn't say when. I know that he may not be able to speak for the company officially on this, but as I say, he did sound pretty definite.�
Jun 25, 2013
ChadS Yes, he did mention it and sounded fairly positive. Though what I recall (?) is that he said he saw an adapter (which may or may not have been for the US), and that he assumed it would come to the US. Which I assume too, but Tesla corporate has not confirmed that. I say "corporate" to distinguish the people at HQ in CA that make the decisions from the long-suffering people at stores like Lance that don't seem to get any more info than we do - so you are correct that he can't represent the company position on this. Lance's story (and several others that have been posted here) helps convince me it will happen despite the lack of official confirmation; but we can't really be sure so until there is an announcement I would hate to tell people "go ahead and buy a car, an adapter will come".
Incidentally, Lance said the same thing a year ago - he had seen an adapter. I am not complaining about Lance! Or even really, with what Tesla is doing. My frustration has been with the lack of official communications, because it means I don't know what to tell potential customers (or when I can make a trip without a very long 30a stop). Though even there I have to admit - if they had said a year ago that a CHAdeMO adapter was coming but not given any more details, we would have spent the last year arguing about pricing and complaining that it is not here yet, rather than complaining we don't know if it is coming. Some things just take a long time and early announcements raise more questions.
I know they have a lot of work to do and they have been doing great so far (not perfect, but great all things considered). I trust them to do the right thing here as soon as they can.�
Jun 25, 2013
cwerdna Is there an official channel (where it's actually recorded somewhere) to make such demands?
I have no idea to what degree Tesla monitors these forums collects data and takes action upon it. As the former Prius Product Manager said about Priuschat at Prius Brake Recall â€" A Little More Information | Page 2 | PriusChat
Demand for a CHAdeMO adapter is obviously unrelated to satisfying regulatory requirements, but perhaps if Tesla had some actual stats on the demand or how high up (or low) the issue is in priority for customers, they might put more/less effort into it.
Just because a few folks echo their wants/needs in a forum or are the loudest in a forum doesn't make it true that many or most people want it.
If everyone who wants such an adapter actually got their request formally registered w/Tesla somewhere, perhaps they'd be more receptive?�
Jun 25, 2013
ChadS I would recommend that people that would like to see an adapter send email to [email�protected] and ask when one will be available. They won't give a direct answer, but they do seem to keep track of such requests.
I could be wrong, but my feeling is that we don't have to do more than that. Well, that and be patient.�
Jun 25, 2013
cwerdna ^^^
If that's the channel, it might be good to also state why (e.g. there are x CHAdeMO stations in ____ I could possibly use, there are x CHAdeMO stations in the US, there are no Superchargers near me, etc.)
People who are pushing for Frankenplug adapters won't be able to make such justifications... :tongue:�
Jun 26, 2013
stopcrazypp I think what he means is the slow average power (14kW given 35kWh in 2.5 hours) and if it's a Model S it doesn't make sense for it to be that slow since even at the end of the tapering, the Model S goes down to 80A (~30kW).
It seems more likely this is a prototype of some other EV unless the times you are talking about have the car connected without being charged (as in charge cycle finished before 8:30pm).�
Jun 26, 2013
widodh For people who are interested in how this all worked out: Endorse my letter to Tesla for supporting 3-phase charging for the Model S
So if you really want CHAdeMO support, we should set up such a joint letter again. I'm not going to do it this time, but I'll happily sign a document since there are dozens of CHAdeMO chargers around here.�
Jun 26, 2013
ChadS That was very nicely done work, widodh, and could be an excellent model if needed. My guess is that it is not needed in this case, but I could be wrong. Even though I'm pretty sure they will make one eventually, such a letter might raise its priority and get it here sooner.
Ironically, it is possible (this is pure speculation) that part of the reason the CHAdeMO adapter was delayed is that the charging engineers all switched to three-phase support when you bumped its priority. Not complaining even if that is true - 3-phase support is important! - just making an observation.�
Jun 26, 2013
EVNow Considering the low number of supercharger location in the NW, I wonder if that is because Tesla expects to sell the CHAdeMO adapter - and think that will take care of the QC needs.�
Jun 26, 2013
100thMonkey if so, it seems that that approach is backfiring... there is mounting frustration at the combined lack of planned SC's and lack of a CHAdeMO adapter.
�
Jul 24, 2013
NigelM Mod Note: Discussion on this topic has migrated to an update thread. To avoid the confusing merger of conversations, I didn't combine the threads; however, on-going discussion should be in the new thread please...
Tesla-CHAdeMo-Update�
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