Thứ Năm, 24 tháng 11, 2016

Recreating the NY Times Road Trip - Feb 15-17, 2013 part 4

  • Feb 18, 2013
    sayidreddy
  • Feb 18, 2013
    stevezzzz
    +1, Seegem.

    engadget's take:

    Fleet of Tesla Model S owners set out to refute NYT report, coin slang for human error

    It still amazes me how these reports are latching on to things that have little relevance to the overall success of the TeslaRoadTrip. This one slants the supercharger support experience (amazing, in my book) of one of the road trippers who had two software updates pushed to him in the field to resolve his supercharger issues, as if this is somehow a Bad Thing and a ding on Tesla. And it manages to imply that the whole effort was somehow less than a rousing success.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Where did you get the idea the road trip started in Rockville, South Carolina? There is no Rockville Supercharger that I'm aware of. Oh, you mean the Rockville Service Center?

    I'm not trying to be snarky: I believe you're right, but I hope your comment spelled it out to avoid the same confusion I just experienced.
    �
  • Feb 18, 2013
    Treker56
    NYT Editor Margarest Sullivan's article is up -- she is the one promised a review and tweeted "I'm on it" a few days back.

    Problems With Precision and Judgment, but Not Integrity, in Tesla Test - NYTimes.com

    Still reading through it .. much more balanced. Qutes NoVa Model S owner Roger Wilson.

    Done reading it. Basically the gist is that Broder started out in good faith but yes he made mistakes and did not do everything he could to not run out of battery.
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Sharkonwheels
    There's a YouTube recording from one of the Model S' out the windshield when ENTERING that station, showing how utterly impossible the Superchargers are to find.
    It literally too the S driver less than 10sec to locate it - they are RIGHT in your face on the right as you enter the plaza!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvIvgKWxLA&feature=youtu.be

    In the video, not only is it night time, like you-know-who drove in, but it is also snowing!

    Superchargers located within mere seconds...
    You-know-who (I REFUSE to give him more notoriety by-name) drove around for .6mi/5-7 minutes looking for the Superchargers that Elon intentionally hid in the brush and treeline, with a beta version of a Tesla cloaking device installed...
    </Sarcasm>
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    teslasguy
    Yeah, my take is that she is trying for a soft landing here and that all this will now just fade away.
    I personally don't care at this point. I think we have all shown what the Model S is really capable of if basic common sense is applied.
    I loved the quote, "You need to be this high to enter this ride" analogy.
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Alfafoxtrot1
  • Feb 18, 2013
    stevezzzz
    Margaret Sullivan has clearly spent a great deal of time and care evaluating Broder's story and the claims and counterclaims it has engendered. I think she's hoping not to have to spend the next several weeks of her life focusing on the same subject. She's casting oil upon the waters, throwing bones to both sides, trying to smooth ruffled feathers, [...insert your favorite aphorism here]. But her closing paragraph is about as inconclusive a conclusion as I can imagine:

    "People will go on contesting these points � and insisting that they know what they prove � and that�s understandable. In the matter of the Tesla Model S and its now infamous test drive, there is still plenty to argue about and few conclusions that are unassailable."

    She clearly wants this to go away without having to slap Broder on the wrists and without inciting a lawsuit. But I see no sign she's planning to retract the article.
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    ElSupreme
  • Feb 18, 2013
    Sharkonwheels
    I wasn't expecting much more - this is PRECISELY what I expected. Her riding the fence. After all, what was she going to do? Throw him under a bus? Naaa...

    I'd argue with the imprecise, but it's pointless... We have videos from @TeslaRoadTrip showing the Superchargers: they enter the actual station @ :09, and after dodging a car, still manage to find them at :20 or so (Vid previously linked)
    He never plugged it in that night
    He didn't fully charge when told to.
    Took off on a 61mi trip with 32mi of "fuel."

    Imprecision and not integrity? yeah - I agree... because there was ZERO integrity involved.

    I have trouble fathoming the situation... I mean, if Tesla Motors gave ME a $101K Tesla to fart around with for 2 days, man, I'd be taking pictures left and right! I'd be snapping the big screen and dash all the time, showing the ranges!

    He didn't hardly any photos: 1 charging, and 1 on the flatbed if I recall correctly.
    CNN? @PeterDrives took MANY photos, and we saw them... We got a few pics from @TeslaRoadTrip as well as telemetry..

    I've been Volt-driving for a year, and still to this day, I periodically take photos of the dash and center-stack.

    So, this reporter gets a $101K+ car to drive for 2 days and takes less than a handful of photos to document the journey?

    How peculiar is that?
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Seegem
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    dsm363
  • Feb 18, 2013
    Hover

    Correction for you- We started at Rockville, MD, not SC. Rockville is a suburb of Washington DC. I'm the driver of the 60KwH car that went on the first leg.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not just that, but it might foster a little gratitude amongst those EV Drivers that cannot use a SuperCharger. "Hey, you/'re putting in that expensive Supercharger network ONLY for teslas. How about throwing us a bone, and adding a couple of J's?"
    It might also make it a lot easier for Tesla to get permission to install them. Just spitballing here....

    Rob
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    ggr
    You know what would be even better? A bunch of Model Ss going round and round the block for a few hours...
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Sharkonwheels
    If by J you mean J1772, I dunno if it's even worth it... Volt obviously doesn't NEED charging due to the gas engine, but it's onboard charger is limited to 3.3kWh...
    leaf is limited to 6.6kWh, isn't it? And you guys Supercharging are doing 300-some-odd volts at 200A+ or so? I mean 85kWh in 60min is a ton of energy... 85kWh even at 440V is like 193A! (sorry - don't know the exact Tesla pack voltages...)

    I'd hate to be the one taking an SC spot at 3.3 or 6.6kWh when a Tesla pulls in... :) It's good for what it is (Model S supercharging) but the others are too slow... Unless they offer a QC cable for the Leafs that have that, or CHADeMO.
    At that point, you start chasing standards, and 6.6kWh isn't going to help much, except for an emergency. At that point, any old L2 can handle 6.6kWh, even my BLiNK at home (which are out in circulation) as well as others that are already out there.

    Cheers!
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Hover
  • Feb 18, 2013
    kendallpb
    I've seen lots of "SC" for "Service Center" but now that you mention it, it confused me the first time, too. I should've spelled it out: Rockville, MD, USA Tesla Service Center ;-)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hah! SharkonWheels listed quite a few conclusions that are unassailable, IMHO.

    - - - Updated - - -

    SC = Service Center here. ;-) I live in Silver Spring, MD and picked up my car at the Rockville Service Center; don't worry, I know what I'm saying, just used what I thought was now a common abbreviation (seen it at TM's forums a lot, but maybe not here on TMC?).
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    yobigd20
    Finally, another south jersey owner! I still have have my VIN yet though...what was your res #?
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Sharkonwheels
    And I'm not even an owner, future owner, on waiting/reservation list... I just have some common sense.

    I think.

    :)
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Jack
    We are winning. I posted to Ms. Sullivan's response with the theme of Tesla is magnificent and have among the highest number of recommends.

    The posts that scored even higher are themed Broder/NYT are dirtbags. The post with the highest number of recommends by far concluded:

    "Misleading, lazy, defensive writing is not worthy of the NYT....and chalking that up to "we didn't know we could be fact-checked" is an even sadder defense to be offered up by an editor"
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Joyrider
  • Feb 18, 2013
    Al Sherman
    The natives are restless Dave!:smile:
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    dpeilow
  • Feb 18, 2013
    Sharkonwheels
  • Feb 18, 2013
    aaron.s
  • Feb 18, 2013
    xanderwalker
  • Feb 18, 2013
    aaron.s
  • Feb 18, 2013
    Raffy.Roma
    Thank you Aaron. You and all the Tesla fans that participated to the trip have been great.
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    aaron.s
    Also an FYI -

    All -

    If any of you were wondering why I had only 9 miles left at Milford, CT when I started supercharging.....

    We had 6 cars to charge at Milford! I actually arrived with 28 miles. We set up 4 cars to charge (2 each on each side North/South of I95) and used the other 2 cars (one of which was mine) to go to dinner a few miles away. When we finished, we drove back and I got to charge my car. At that point, it was then at 9 miles remaining....

    Actually got up to 200 rated in only 45 minutes!

    Aaron
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    aaron.s
  • Feb 18, 2013
    tomn
    Ordinary people concentrate on exploiting range anxiety of electric vehicles as if they drive long distance every day. The Model S has amazing range for 99% of daily use. On top, I haven't read a single one comment on the NYT about the benefit of EV, especially the cost of gas. Instead of "range anxiety", you can see ICE owners have "gas price anxiety" every day all over the news and no body is paying attention to that. One reader comment concludes with "I laugh all the way to the gas station" He won't be laughing next time he stops at the gas station, as this is just one of the pieces of news that are poping up now on TV Gas prices at four-month high after 32 days of hikes at the pump - U.S. News. I also read comments of people claiming that super charger problem show that technology is not ready. They forget that many time, they line up at Costco to fuel up they can see that gas pumps are often out of service for one reason or another and cars are routed to working stations. Without rational, they all take the NYT article a validation for their mindset. Sad but true
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    cinergi
    He's running 19's. And the tire pressures (at least before the trip) were OK. Meant to check along the way but forgot to.
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    efusco
    I would certainly have the alignment checked, another possibility, though less likely, is one of the brake pads dragging slightly. Was climate on the Eco setting?
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    cinergi
    SC's are set up in pairs. Each pair of stations can pull up to 120kW total. So two empty cars plugging in at the same time will not both charge at 90kW. The one that plugs in first gets full power and the other gets the leftover. As the first car tapers off (which doesn't take long), the other car will ramp up.

    No word that I know of about his increased usage. Tesla is aware and investigating.
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    gg_got_a_tesla
    The only footnote that I want to throw in here is that had anyone - let alone Broder - driven one of the recently minted 60 kWh cars, it would surely not have made the stretch between Wilmington, DE and Milford, CT using Tesla SC juice alone and would have had to supplement using some other charging sources.

    Going forward, now that the true early adopters are being tapped out, I strongly suspect that the mix will lean more towards 60+SC rather than 85 for road-trip capable Model Ss. Given that, Tesla needs to have a Supercharger installation in New Jersey ASAP in order to avoid such controversies in the future in this high-traffic corridor.
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  • Feb 18, 2013
    Norbert
  • Feb 19, 2013
    bluetinc
    Hey GG,

    I'll have to disagree with you supposition but not your point. I led the group from Rockville to the Delaware charge stations. We were either stuck in traffic, or going a couple of miles over the speed limit (of 65) and passing a couple of cars and semis along the way but, not in the left lane barreling down the highway. Doing this, I was within 5% of rated range. While the trip would not be as fun, or comfortable, in a 60, I do think it is doable if someone wanted to make it happen. This very well could mean, sitting a safe distance behind a semi in the right lane, and letting him set the speed which usually is a couple below the speed limit, perhaps turning off the heat in the car for some if not all of the trip. I however would not suggest that anyone without good experience with the car plan to make that leg, and even with experience they should have a backup plan (in a 60).

    That said, it's always been Tesla's plan to add more stations between the DE-CT chargers, it's just slow going with lots of red tape. (You know there is a store next to me that has been complete and ready to open for almost 3 months now that is still closed due to red tape...).

    Peter

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  • Feb 19, 2013
    zax123
    Pete, are you saying there's a store with superchargers waiting to open, or are they simply HPWC of the 90-100amp variety?
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    teslasguy
    I would agree that unless you are prepared to stop for a non-supercharger charge along the way, it would not be advisable for anyone driving a 60kwh S to try the De to Milford run.
    Especially during this cold weather and given the fact that NYC traffic is sooo unpredictable. However, I don't think it will be long at all before Tesla has another Supercharger stop in NJ, hopefully somewhere between Trenton and Newark. Newark area might make the most sense. That should then make the DC to Boston run a real piece of cake for anyone.
    Let's all keep in mind that these two current supercharging locations are only the first of MANY that Tesla has pledged to create over the next few years.

    Everyone should feel very comfortable with the current situation IMHO. Just apply a little common sense and you'll not find a more rewarding car to own.
    Pinky promise!!
    For me 'I'll give you my Model S when you pry it from my cold, dead hands'!!
    :biggrin:
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    jcstp
  • Feb 19, 2013
    teslasguy
  • Feb 19, 2013
    NigelM
    Discussion on the CNBC story is over in the News section.
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    Jack
    TSLA shares are up 4.6% today - the market is convinced.
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    Lanny
    NYT shares seem to be dipping in and out of the red. :tongue:
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    Robert.Boston
    Congrats to all on this trip. I used a SC for the first time yesterday (Milford), and it's very impressive. First, so simple; no buttons or card-swipes, just plug-n-play. Second, so fast. In the time I took me to enter the building and use the restroom, then check on the charging status on my phone, the SC had added 40 miles of range.

    Another Model S pulled in to the second slot just as I was finishing up, pointing to the potential for bottlenecks on busy summer travel days.
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    teslasguy
  • Feb 19, 2013
    Jack
  • Feb 19, 2013
    teslasguy
    Looks like Tesla stock went up a little over 6% today, or something over $200m increase in market cap?
    Sweet!!!
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    nolngrgrsngslde
    Yes, thanks to you guys, Even the NYT had to rebuff their guy and admit he was not using good judgement.

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/18/4001472/new-york-times-public-editor-responds-to-tesla-model-s-cricitism

    The article says that he acted in good faith. Here is what i want to know, when was the last time that our infamous reporter stopped at a gas station in his ICE-mobile and only filled up the tank half way.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I love this article.


    from the "Tesla Triumphs" article above, on page 3, "Owners volunteers."


    "In the end, Tesla managed to turn a piece of crummy publicity into a PR triumph. All it took was for other people -- CNN as well as regular owner-volunteers -- to re-create the NYT journey, and achieve a successful result. "
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    teslasguy
    Phil LeBeau's DC to Boston test drive is now done.
    I love his last tweet.

    "4 mins Phil LeBeau [email�protected]
    The Model S delivered what @elonmusk promised. A ride to make you re-think going electric."
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    SigS905
  • Feb 19, 2013
    Jack
    I asked that my HPWC be expedited in this thread, and sure enough - it was Fedexed one day after the road trip - if anyone at Telsa was reading and expedited, thanks!!
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    Seegem
  • Feb 19, 2013
    Bardlebee
    THIS, this right here is what it is all about! Due to no small reason on your guys part this blog happened.

    Thank you! Thank you to everyone who did this. It just goes to show you that even 7 people can make a difference!
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    Jack
    From Elon's post "But, most of all, we would like to thank our customers, who rallied immediately to the defense of Tesla and the electric car revolution, sending hundreds of heartfelt letters of support to The New York Times in the space of a few days! Entirely of their own volition, several customers spent the past holiday weekend recreating the Broder test drive route and showing that it can be done easily using the Tesla Supercharger network on the East Coast. You guys are awesome!"


    All we did was to buy a fantastic car - a dream car - and have a blast driving it up and down the norhteast corridor. I think we are all grateful to Elon and his team for taking this incredible business risk, and for his passion and amazing execution.
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    Rodolfo Paiz
    That's not all the Tesla Road Trip team did. Each and every one of those people stood for what they believed, and spoke when there was a need for something to be said. They invested time, effort, money, and risk (no road trip is without risk) to do all that. And they do deserve to be thanked for acting when others were unable or unwilling to do so. Yes, we are all grateful to Tesla for their work... but those of us who cheered on the Tesla Road Trip are grateful to them as well.

    As an aside, I think we'll see further "Tesla Road Trips" get executed as other Superchargers start getting built out and longer trips become practical across the country.
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    TheAustin
    Jack, as a Rutgers alum, it is of course my duty to inform you that there is no apostrophe in "Rutgers" :)

    Also, as a Rutgers alum, I usually drive down there a couple of times a year for fraternity/alumni events, and the next time I head down there, I plan to drive my Model S (from the eastern end of Long Island)...So, I would be very interested in hearing any feedback about your experiences there with the J1772 chargers. Thanks in advance :)
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    NigelM
    Mod note: updated thread title to reflect date.
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    gjamrok
    This was simply amazing. To everyone who participated in the Tesla Road Trip, you have really done an amazing thing for the future of sustainable transport. After having read through all 58 pages of this thread, almost all of the articles about the Broader/Musk dustup, then the followup articles about the Tesla Road Trip and finally seeing Tesla's stock price dip way down and then rally up 6.05% today I am going to conclude that this owner response had a major impact on the public's opinion of Tesla and has saved them a whole lot of time and money defending their recent awards and their reputation.

    As of next month I will have had my Model-S on reservation for four years. And during this NYT debacle my poor Model-S (VIN 5239) has been waiting for me at the Service Center in Los Angeles while I wait for Wells Fargo to slug through my financing. (I have been very disappointed with them so far but hopefully everything will go through tomorrow.)

    I have been to the Tesla Factory for the Test Ride event, the Hawthorne location for a test drive, defended Tesla on Facebook during the presidential debates from conservative 'friends' and I have even traded in all my BP stock that I received from my grandfather (32 years of working at Standard Oil) for Tesla stock and went to the Computer History Museum for their first stockholder meeting.

    Needless to say I really want Tesla to succeed and when I read the Broder article the wind went right out of my sails. I received emails from family members on the East Coast questioning my decision to buy a Tesla but I felt that from everyone I had spoken to about Tesla, owners and employees, that there had to be something wrong with Broder's article. It just didn't add up.

    Now, nine days later it feels so vindicating to read the conclusion put so simply:

    "...the short story: They did 100% charges at the Superchargers. That simple."

    And to watch video and read accounts of owners taking a road trip to disprove a poorly written, awful article masquerading as journalism is icing on the cake.

    I'm stunned to see the dedication of the TMC and Tesla owners and I hope to join your ranks this week.

    Thanks again!
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  • Feb 19, 2013
    buzzbuzz
    I just want to echo my congratulations and thanks to the Tesla Road Trip team! It was great being able to watch the events unfold and see them prove how wonderful a car the Model S really is. GO TESLA!
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    Jack
    Sorry - I'm an MIT guy, they don't teach us how to spell there.

    There are 2 pairs of 1772s, easily found and accessed (Chargepoint site got us to within a foot, once again - no Brodering around). As always, they are easy to use but too slow - you'll get the usual 20 MPH. Might be hard to find a hotel with charging it that area (the Homeless Suites wont do), so you'll probably need a couple of days on campus to get up to charge - all free though! If it's cold, do try to find a hotel with 110 access. Enjoy the drive.
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    xanderwalker
    gGJ2mi0.gif

    C9xPMMt.gif

    b3VOVzT.gif
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    teslasguy
  • Feb 20, 2013
    Bearman
  • Feb 20, 2013
    Citizen-T
    YES!!! It was every bit as awesome as I expected.
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    NigelM
    Funny! Someone should make that into a screensaver.
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    rlpm
    "Anybody seen a supercharger?" Priceless. :)
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    Citizen-T
    Time to flood the social networks with this.
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    ElSupreme
    Maybe a copy that is 2x or 3x speed to Benny Hill music. Keep the break, back to regular speed "Anyone see a suprecharger", then back to fast and Benny Hill.
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    Al Sherman
    Perfect. Thanks for the hardy laugh!
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    teslasguy
    I love our latest nickname...Tesla Nation.
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    Volker.Berlin
    ROFL!! :-D

    (Seems that I can't add a post that only contains CAPS.)
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    teslasguy
  • Feb 20, 2013
    JRP3
    Exactly my thoughts, faster and Benny Hill music.
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    bluetinc
    No Superchargers, just a store. I was just giving an example of how Tesla can do everything they can, and then have long delays that are really out of their control.

    Peter
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    teslasguy
  • Feb 20, 2013
    aminorjourney
    Would one of the original road-trip drivers (or passengers) like to be a guest on Transport Evolved tomorrow? We record at 3pm Eastern... and the show will record for about 80 minutes on Skype.

    Ping me an email if you'd like to be involved... nikki at littlecollie dot com. :)
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  • Feb 20, 2013
    Lanny
  • Feb 21, 2013
    brianman
  • Feb 21, 2013
    teslasguy
  • Feb 22, 2013
    rolosrevenge
  • Feb 22, 2013
    JRP3
    Good topic to focus on, and something I've brought up when people try to claim that V2G communications would be difficult to implement.
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  • Feb 22, 2013
    rolosrevenge
    I used to say that they'd get it from the Carwings et. al. before I watched the Tesla Road Trip tweet it. I wonder who'll be the first to start a V2G company for Model S owners. Hmmm....
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  • Feb 22, 2013
    Lanny
    More from NYT in Sunday's Paper

    The New York Times is not finished with this story yet. Set to run in the print edition on Sunday:
    After a Charging System Test, a Debate Erupts Online

    The article mentions Tesla Motors Club and the re-enactment of the drive by Model S owners.
    �
  • Feb 22, 2013
    Rodolfo Paiz
    You're right, they're not done with this. That article is definitely another salvo fired in Tesla's direction, as it tries very, VERY hard to continue painting the car in a negative light and the NYT as the lily-white victim of an immature technology and an overpromising, overhyping newborn carmaker.
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  • Feb 22, 2013
    EarlyAdopter
    It's time to move on.
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  • Feb 22, 2013
    markb1
    It makes sense for the Times to follow up in print on a Sunday, since that's how the original article appeared.
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  • Feb 22, 2013
    cinergi
    So, I was thinking a bunch of us should take a trip tomorrow in our Model S's and ... oh, wait.

    </can't-believe-it's-been-a-week>
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  • Feb 22, 2013
    stevezzzz
    ???

    I read the original on Friday afternoon, February 8. Did it appear in print on Sunday the 10th?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'd agree with you, except they quoted my words on TMC, out of context, to support a point of view I don't agree with and would have argued against, if I'd been consulted. So I've drafted an email to the NYT Public Editor and will sleep on it.
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  • Feb 23, 2013
    Norbert
    That's nice to hear. When I read that message originally, I was a bit concerned about what it might sound like to someone not understanding the use of casual expressions for dramatic effect, and impression vs reality. It is easily misunderstood on its own, without context.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Tesla is being debated in the public and a major newspaper, and we are still in the middle of it. How do you just want to "move on"? Not participate in the discussion?
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  • Feb 23, 2013
    GSP
    "Moving on" is the NYT and Tesla not commenting further after NYT's admission of "lack of judgement." Tesla has moved on. I don't know what NYT's problem is.

    GSP
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  • Feb 23, 2013
    artsci
    I've read this new piece and I can't tell how disappointed I am in the New York Times, so disappointed in fact that I may not renew my subscription when it expires this year. And I've been a subscriber for about 40 years.

    For me, this is not about criticism of Tesla or questions about electric cars, but the clear lack of integrity on the part of the Times. This new piece is a very clever attempt to look objective and unbiased but it's written largely to protect the New York Time's reputation from a very poor reporting job by Broder. Many of the quotes are taken out of context and the story is constructed in such a way to appear objective to people who have not been following the story closely or know the Model S and electric car technology well. There's no need to rehash it all again. But if this is representative of the way the Times deals with legitimate concerns about the accuracy and objectiveness of its reporter's work, I've concluded that I can no longer trust any analytical reporting in the paper.

    And what is it with the "by the New York Times" byline? Was this written by a committee? I doubt it. Probably Broder and/or his editor wrote it, and it wouldn't have looked objective if their names were on the story.
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  • Feb 23, 2013
    PeterK
    Agree. If I currently had a subscription I would cancel it. Nowhere do they even admit the "lack of precision and errors of judgment but not integrity" or whatever Sullivan wrote, that started the controversy in the first place. And I still am amazed how he got away with writing he was driving with cruise control at 54 and freezing toes and knuckles turning white while in New Jersey, when the logs clearly show he was driving 60-70 and didn't turn down the heat until after giving his brother a ride in NYC.

    Note comments aren't activated for the article.
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  • Feb 23, 2013
    artsci
    And I also noted how they cleverly tried to discredit the value of the logs against Broder's word. They even used a quote from a Columbia professor as part of that strategy. It's a well-known tactic -- get a compliant authority to undermine the veracity of your critics' statements. The goal is make people believe that the logs have no more value than Broder's claims. It would be like the FAA saying after a plane crash that the black box recordings have no more value than eyewitness accounts. We'd all laugh at such an assertion. But that's exactly what the Times is trying to do here. Do they think we're all fools? Apparently, and it's appalling.
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  • Feb 23, 2013
    anticitizen13.7
    They need to save face. I expected them to be defensive after taking a pounding from Elon Musk, members of TMC, and other media outlets that re-created the test drive. Nobody likes getting their ass beaten into the ground.

    I know what it's like to lose a debate and it's not fun. I've also won plenty of debates on controversial subjects, which left the losing side feeling very upset. This debate over EVs is not much different, just on a much bigger scale.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    markb1
    That's what they say in this article. They probably published it in print on 2/10 after publishing online on 2/8, just like this article was published online on Friday, but notes it will be printed on Sunday.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    vfx
    We should use this term.

    Tesla used their Media Black Box to refute the reporter's claims.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    stevezzzz
    Here's the email I sent to Margaret Sullivan earlier this morning.

    _______



    To the NY Times Public Editor:

    On reading this most recent piece in the Times concerning the John Broder/Tesla Motors kerfuffle, I found a quote near the top of the article attributed to a Tesla Motors Club member whose screen name on that site is 'stevezzzz'. I am that person.

    I find this to be disquieting on at least a couple of fronts. For one, the Times piece is today's news and my quote was taken (out of context, I might add) from my first posting to the forum on the subject, on February 8, in response to my initial reading of John Broder's road trip story. There has been a lot of water under the bridge since that date, and you can be sure that my current opinions on the original story have evolved considerably since that time. To make no mention of the fact that my remarks are outdated smacks of bias. Why did the Times's reporter not make the effort to find out what I might have to say on the subject today, for the record? It's an open forum: he or she could have easily created a login and sent me a private message.

    Secondly: I suppose you can argue that an anonymous posting on a public forum is a legitimate source for a quote. But, is it responsible journalism? The general public has no way of weighing whether an anonymous source is legitimate; for all the reader knows the source (me, in this case) could as easily be an oil industry shill as a private EV owner. More to the point, the reporter has no way of knowing if the source is legitimate, either. To make an analogy, it's as though the reporter overheard a conversation in the street and quoted a few words from one of the parties, out of context, without checking the source.

    I am dismayed that an august institution like the NY Times is now using crowd-sourced anonymous quotes to report the news. I am also dismayed to find that words I wrote at the very beginning of this episode are being used today, out of context and without my knowledge or consent, to support a point of view I do not agree with and would argue against, had I been consulted.

    And what is that point of view? The current piece builds to a quote from tech analyst Henry Blodget: "But no normal driver looking for a means of reliable, flexible and convenient transportation would buy one as their primary vehicle." He ignores the many thousands of early adopters (I am one) who have indeed purchased an EV as their primary vehicle (emphasis mine). I drive an EV every day, some 23,000-plus miles to date, and I've never run out of fuel. My current EV (I've owned two) is comfortable, roomy, and a dream to drive. I plug it in at home, at night, and never have to interrupt my day to stop and buy gas. I generate enough electricity with a rooftop solar PV system to more than offset the electricity my car uses. The fact that, in the US today, planning a cross-country road trip in an EV requires more thought than making the trip in a gas-powered car is something of a red herring: it's part and parcel of the chicken-and-egg phenomenon of simultaneously trying to sell EVs and build out the EV infrastructure in this country.

    EVs and the public charging infrastructure represent a disruptive technology that's having to bootstrap its way into the mainstream, one brilliantly engineered, American-made car and one public charging station at a time. This is, or should be, a cause for celebration, not condescension. I should think the NY Times would go out of its way to be balanced in its reporting on the issue. But the original Broder piece (and all I'll say about that for now is that John Broder never once fully charged the car: everything else is noise), as well as the various responses published by the paper since then, cannot be construed as balanced, as it invites the general reader to write off EVs and ignores the most compelling case for them: EVs today are wholly successful and in fact superior to gas vehicles at serving the needs of that great American institution, the daily drive in a private automobile.

    Picking fights with maverick CEOs and kicking dirt in the face of a nascent industry through unbalanced reporting should be beneath the NY Times. I don't want my name associated with it, and I'm asking you to remove my quote from your story. I also invite you to have a reporter contact me for my views on the subject the next time you publish something about EVs, rather than cherry picking my musings from an online forum.


    Steve Zimmermann
    Broomfield, CO
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    Norbert
    Great letter, Steve!
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    bonnie
    Bravo!
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    Raffy.Roma
    I thought "Bravo" was Italian Bonnie. Anyway I agree with you Bonnie. "Bravo!" told by an Italian ;-)
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    ModelX
    Very good!
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    dsm363
    Great work Steve. If the New York Times doesn't make this right there is little hope for legitimate news anymore. All we have left is The Daily Show.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    doug
    My guess is it's written by James G. Cobb, the NYT Automobiles editor. He had a bunch of what could be seen as anti-Tesla tweets last week and interpreted Margaret Sullivan's follow-up piece 180 degrees from how many interpreted it here.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    artsci
    A very well written letter Steve. Please let us know if you receive a response. My guess is that it will be another defensive reply. The Gray Lady is indeed slipping.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    Beavis
    Steve, nicely done but would you consider editing your letter to fit within the NYT's character limit so it can be published?
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    Rodolfo Paiz
    Steve's writing is, as usual, compelling and articulate. A very thoughtful and well-reasoned piece... bravo indeed! Now, I wonder what the NYT will do.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    vfx
    Can someone write a Op-Ed?
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    Beavis
    By the way, my way to defend against unauthorized use of my posts was to change my user name to Beavis. Nobody is going to quote Beavis.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    stevezzzz
    Thanks for the support, everyone. 'Beavis', where do I find the NYT guidelines for submissions? I'll think about sending my letter to someone at the paper other than the ombudsman.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    dsm363
  • Feb 23, 2013
    hcsharp
    It's shocking to me that a publication with a reputation like the NYT would resort to quoting out of context posts from TMC, especially without contacting anybody for permission. This isn't Jalopnik or Rush. The entire article is nothing more than a compilation of misleading and often anonymous quotes, with the last word at every turn being anti-EV, while framing the article as unbiased. Then ending with the final ultimate insult that "no normal driver" would use one for primary transportation, effectively dismissing all tens of thousands of us who are doing just that as part of some kind of fringe element. Of all the anti-EV gibberish the author sifted through for this piece, that quote was chosen for it's unique ability to do everything the author wanted: Delivering final judgement from an authority that "No normal driver" would think we were rational.

    And so I'm off to pick up my son from his basketball practice, like many other parents. And tomorrow I'll go shopping at the same stores they will. On Monday I'll commute to work. But unlike the other parents, my driving patterns are simply "not normal." Go figure.
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    Seegem
    +1! hahahaha, and colbert :) for being "fair and balanced"!
    �
  • Feb 23, 2013
    stevezzzz
  • Feb 23, 2013
    vfx
    You did not put it in a blog or a website. Does a post on a forum even count as "publishing"? It's more like a conversation in small circle tan a speech.
    �
  • Feb 24, 2013
    jkirkebo
    You'd be even safer as "Butthead" ;)
    �
  • Feb 24, 2013
    Beavis
    Really, you could use any inappropriate, celebrity, or political name and I think they would choose to pass on quoting you. Maybe Doug will let me change it again to Dick Armey. That hits all 3.
    �
  • Feb 24, 2013
    jcstp
    I surely want to see an other big roadtip! ;-)
    Maybe making it a habit every time a supercharger opens!!!!
    �
  • Feb 24, 2013
    brianman
    Maybe it's time to change my nick to TraditionalMediaAreUnethical. Would be interesting to see them quoting that name.
    �
  • Feb 25, 2013
    artsci
    How about a MediaLies nick?
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  • Feb 25, 2013
    lolachampcar
    Thanks to all that made the recreation happen.
    �
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