Jan 7, 2016
FluxCap I agree, need to get to the bottom of this one, at least get initial findings/comments that rule things out expeditiously. Incidentally, I wonder if he had a cheapo Chinese "hoverboard" in his trunk that ignited.
However, I sure would like to know if there is an actual potential safety issue, as an owner and investor.�
Jan 7, 2016
smac I have a charging point @ work and have been teased about the risk of sitting by the window nearest to it: with people "checking" if my car was on charge
It will all blow over in a day mind. Talk of the office will be whatever else is on social media at the time. Probably the risk of getting punched by Ronnie Pickering.�
Jan 7, 2016
Discoducky Could have been using a 12V outlet inverter to charge various things in the car.
In other news Ferrari 488 GTB Sales Stopped Due to Fire Risk | Digital Trends�
Jan 7, 2016
EarlyAdopter Porsche has had to recall cars across every product line over the last 4 years due to fires.
Porsche Recalls Cayenne, Panamera Vehicles for Fire Risk | Defective Products Attorney
Almost 3,000 Porsche Macans Recalled In Russia Over Fire Hazard
Porsche Recalls High-Performance 911 GT3 After Fires - Bloomberg Business�
Jan 7, 2016
AWDtsla A Lamborghini Aventador Catches Fire in Traffic While the Driver Continues to Rev the Engine
Lamborghini's catch fire when they are reved. Several so far.�
Jan 8, 2016
Matias See http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/60235-New-charging-incident-in-Norway�
Jan 8, 2016
JohnSnowNW This seems unrelated...�
Jan 8, 2016
EdA Unless the breaker never tripped on the SC...�
Jan 8, 2016
JohnSnowNW We could speculate all day. If this is relevant, then we should start linking to every post where people noted melting or discoloration on various plugs/outlets.�
Jan 8, 2016
stopcrazypp I remember there was a thread where there was a supercharger socket melt reported before also in the US, but in that case charging also stopped and no fire happened.�
Jan 8, 2016
vgrinshpun Except as a result of investigation by Norwegian authorities there were no specific faults with the charging equipment...
These two incidents does not look related at all.�
Jan 8, 2016
tom66 How much do we trust this investigation? The charging cable was surely melted and it would seem unlikely that a week-long investigation could come to this conclusion with certainty. They could check the cabinets and pedestal for damage, but I'm not convinced the charger can be completely ruled out just yet.�
Jan 8, 2016
AmpedRealtor Why wouldn't you trust this investigation? Do you have some special qualifications that would lead you to make such a statement?�
Jan 8, 2016
AudubonB Oh, we will. And night, too. For days! Weeks! Months! And "...if relevant...." bears not at all....�
Jan 8, 2016
tom66 I don't, but I would say it'll take more than a week to come to the conclusion that the charger was definitely not involved. They may have ruled out pedestal and cabinet, but they'd have to do a lot more to rule out the charge connector, or possibly even the cable.�
Jan 8, 2016
stopcrazypp I think it is probably relevant that the driver reported he unplugged and holstered the cable when he saw smoke. This may have occurred before the fuse had a chance to trip (assuming the smoking part was even related to the cable). This would be different from the reported incidents where the cable was unplugged after a fuse was tripped.
So even if a fuse was not tripped on the SC, I don't think it necessarily means the SC is faulty in this case, given the cable was not connect when the car was in flames.�
Jan 8, 2016
Mario Kadastik Couple of tidbits that might be useful.
We had one cars center screen just die during driving, my customer called me and I called Tesla. They started to check and saw that the car had stopped communicating at the time of the console dying. That tells to me that the car is talking to tesla pretty much nona-stop, what though is hard to guess.
we were debugging a CHAdeMO charging issue with Tesla today and my car was in developer mode, got to see some pretty interesting stuff, most of which I can't say much about
Just my $0.02�
Jan 8, 2016
mbender Not spontaneously and/or as a direct, result of adding fuel to it. This is pretty serious, and I'm actually surprised at how little media attention it received -- whether "in" or "out of" proportion.
I think advocates (and I count myself among them) make a mistake to minimize or 'poo-poo' this. I look forward to hearing an explanation from EM or a Tesla spokesperson, but I'm not holding my breath.
Disclaimer: late to this thread and have only read 5 pages.�
Jan 8, 2016
3mp_kwh Yes, gas fires are spontaneous, sometimes while fuel is added. One thing that isn't "minimizing" is slow developing battery fires. A couple pages ago, Porsche's issues with the 2015 GT3s were mentioned. About a half-dozen were on fire, when their drivers stopped. Fire, while they were in the car!
Shoot, the Volt fire required impregnating the battery with iron, sprinkling anti-freeze on it and NHTSA storage, upside down, for two weeks. Only then did it cook. ....and that incident got some attention!�
Jan 8, 2016
smac Not wanting to defend Tom here on qualification or intent, but I too read the situation as "We haven't found a specific cause, and have let Tesla take the equipment from the scene for further investigation".
The joys of: Google translation + TMC Speculation = Misunderstanding�
Jan 8, 2016
smil3193 Of course this is serious and I hope Tesla quickly figures out what happened. But to add to the chorus of "why don't ICE fires get more attention," check out these links. Obviously they made the press or I couldn't share links, but they certainly didn't get the scrutiny that any Tesla mishap gets: from 2014, "New 2015 GMC Yukon catches fire during test drive" New 2015 GMC Yukon catches fire during test drive; from last month, "Ford's New 2016 Everest Destroyed by Fire During Australian Test Drive" http://www.carscoops.com/2015/12/fords-new-2016-everest-destroyed-by.html; from 2012, "Watch a $376,000 Lamborghini Burn to the Ground on a Test Drive" Watch A $376,000 Lamborghini Burn To The Ground On A Test Drive. Amazing that new ICE cars burning up during test drives gets so little attention.�
Jan 8, 2016
JRP3 Statistically we are correct to minimize and poo-poo this. Not saying it should be ignored but unless something changes and other vehicles start experiencing this it's not statistically relevant.�
Jan 8, 2016
Yggdrasill As a Norwegian speaker, I can say the statement from the police went about 95% of the way there to ruling out fault with the supercharger. What the statements didn't completely rule out were more complex faults, as well as situations where the supercharger was involved, but working as intended (like if the HVJB overheated while supercharging).�
Jan 8, 2016
wk057 The car pings "mothership" a lot via the VPN, and Tesla can easily see when it's connected and disconnected. Not too telling on topic.�
Jan 8, 2016
Saghost That's the real question, though - does the car have programming to realize it's about to die and flush all of the data out on a priority basis so Tesla has it to debug with, or did the very useful diagnostic data die with the car?
Walter�
Jan 8, 2016
Auzie Car needs a black box, like planes�
Jan 8, 2016
jerry33 As far as I know, all modern cars, at least the ones sold in North America, have a black box. What I don't know is what's recorded in it. I also don't know how heat resistant it is. Also I believe the recording time is very short.�
Jan 8, 2016
Auzie My understanding of these current data recording devices is that they were designed with regard to speed control (trucks) and crashes investigations, not fires.�
Jan 9, 2016
jerry33 I'm pretty sure what is recorded varies by manufacturer. That is, there is a certain set of required items, and some add additional items. I know Toyota does because it was discussed when the braking "problem" was a hot topic.�
Jan 9, 2016
tom66 I think some of the logs are stored on an SD card or flash memory on the CID, but I would be rather surprised if any data is recoverable given the extent of the damage to the interior. Flash memory rather rapidly bleeds off charge when it gets hot (incidentally, this is what limits cycle life at high temperatures.)
That being said, some incredible things have happened before, like EEPROMs being recovered from Swissair 111. An EEPROM was mounted in each FADEC unit, next to the engine, and 2 out of 3 gave useful information:
Air Crash Investigations: The Crash of Swissair Flight 111 - Hans Griffioen - Google Books�
Jan 9, 2016
S'toon That reminds me,
Full article at:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/michael-wekerle-s-porsche-918-spyder-burns-at-caledon-gas-station-1.2781633�
Jan 9, 2016
FlatSix911 Don't forget to mention that the Porsche 918 is a PHEV ...�
Jan 9, 2016
Discoducky 1 of 2 918 PHEV's has burned to the ground...that doesn't bode well. Anyone find the video?�
Jan 9, 2016
FlatSix911 Incorrect... please check your facts. Porsche produced 918 units worldwide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_918
The investigation found that gasoline vapors ignited upon contact with the hot top mounted exhaust vents during refueling.�
Jan 9, 2016
Discoducky In Canada...�
Jan 9, 2016
William13 What about the fires on Top Gear?�
Jan 9, 2016
Mike K Meanwhile Ferrari's make the news for not ?catching on fire...�
Jan 13, 2016
Yggdrasill Some new info today: Google Oversetter
- The Accident Investigation Board has decided *not* to proceed with the investigation. (They lost interest because the fire started in the car and it was the only case in the world.)
- The police are satisfied no crime has been committed, and have released the car to the insurance company.
- The insurance company says they will look at the car together with Tesla probably within a week.�
Jan 13, 2016
FredTMC thanks a lot for this update! Very interesting. I thought the board would drag this out for a long time.�
Jan 13, 2016
Johan Good stuff in the last paragraph. A Norwegian owner was interviewed at the Brokelandsheia station. He charges there regularly. He said he's not scared. "Fire due to charging is something exceptional and something I've never heard of before. Every week millions of Tesla charges take place and this is something that "never" happens. The chances of a gasoline car burning are higher, so I'll keep charging without worrying".
A member here on TMC perhaps? Or just someone with common sense anyway.�
Jan 13, 2016
brkaus I don't recall passing a common sense test to become a TMC member�
Jan 13, 2016
Johan Mods, please ban this ineligible member ASAP.�
Jan 13, 2016
rick Norwegian charging fire
What is the status of the investigation into the cause of the Tesla charging fire in Norway?�
Jan 13, 2016
stevezzzz See the 45-page thread about the Norwegian charging fire...
A Model S caught fire while supercharging in Norway (link in Norwegian) - Page 44
Mods, please merge...�
Jan 13, 2016
ecarfan What a remarkably rational analysis of the situation. Norwegians seem like very sensible people. [emoji3]
So the Accident Investigation Board has concluded that the fire started inside the car?�
Jan 13, 2016
Johan Correct, that's their conclusion.�
Jan 14, 2016
Yonki Why did this thread get moved to "Battery and Charging"? It took me a while to find it again, and it sounds like the battery/charging had nothing to do with the cause of the incident.�
Jan 14, 2016
scaesare I don't believe there's anough data to reach that conclusion.
Just because the fire is thought to have started inside the car, it doesn't mean that the cables/conectors/junction-boxes inside the car carrying the current at the time did not ail/overheat and start the fire.
Of course, it doesn't mean they DID?, either, we just don't know yet.�
Jan 14, 2016
shelbri But it would seem to imply the issue is not with the Supercharger Station.
What would remain unclear then is whether the issue within the car is isolated to that one car or pervasive throughout the fleet.�
Jan 14, 2016
Todd Burch Given the statistics, it's very likely to have been an issue with that particular car--especially given that it was a recent purchase (although not new) and therefore likely went through some sort of servicing.�
Jan 14, 2016
bonnie I'm still going with outside source for the fire. Like a hoverboard received as a Christmas gift.�
Jan 14, 2016
AlMc IIRC one of our Norwegian friends indicated his/her read on the report was that it had been 'resolved' that it was something inside the car that caused the fire. Since it appears to be an isolated incident ( no hint of a chronic charging station issue ) they closed their investigation.�
Jan 14, 2016
wk057 Is the supercharger there re-opened?�
Jan 14, 2016
brucet999 I think that by "outside source" Bonnie meant not part of the car.�
Jan 14, 2016
ecarfan I think only Tesla can figure that out with a high degree of confidence, not the Norwegian investigators. Only Tesla can fully understand the car data they have.
If (please note the use of "if") the car's owner did in fact have something inside the car that caused the fire, unless that person shares that information with Tesla it may be very difficult to prove that was the cause.
If some part of the car malfunctioned and caused the fire then Tesla should be able to determine that with some confidence. If there was such a malfunction Tesla should be able to determine if it was charging-related or not.
We just have to wait for Tesla to make a statement...�
Jan 14, 2016
AudubonB As of right now, 14 Jan, it is not showing in any fashion at all - open, closed, const'n - on Tesla's SpC website.�
Jan 14, 2016
russman http://electrek.co/2016/01/14/tesla-supercharger-fire-investigation/�
Jan 15, 2016
Auzie Even if there was some flammable cargo in the car, that cargo is unlikely to catch fire in a stationary car in Norway.
Wiki: Fire starts when a flammable or a combustible material, in combination with a sufficient quantity of an oxidizer such as oxygen gas or another oxygen-rich compound is exposed to a source of heat or ambient temperature above the flash point for the fuel/oxidizer mix...
Graphically, this is represented by a fire triangle model:
All three components of a fire triangle must be present for a fire to start.
In a case of a flammable cargo in a stationary car in Norway winter, there was no heat present to start the fire of the cargo. That leads me to think that fire likely started elsewhere in the car, somewhere where all three elements were present.
Oxygen and flammable elements are abundant in the car, heat is the missing element in the triangle. Thus looking for the likely/possible heat source is likely to point out to the location where the fire started.
Unfortunately, it is my experience that when some humans interfere with the car, perhaps during service or similar, they may make small unintentional mistakes when assembling components back together. Some of these small freaky mistakes can lead to heat generation during charging in the car electrical circuitry.
This is all speculation based on scarce publicly known facts.�
Jan 15, 2016
JRP3 Hoverboards have been catching fire in many stationary locations. Poorly manufactured batteries can and do spontaneously catch fire at times, including those in cell phones and laptops.�
Jan 15, 2016
pmadflyer Those darn dendrites!�
Jan 15, 2016
scaesare Given their propensity to occur in space, maybe the SpaceX boys have some suggestions to share...�
Jan 15, 2016
brantse According to supercharge.info the Sundebru charger is back up today.�
Jan 15, 2016
tom66 I haven't heard of any stationary "hoverboards" catching fire. Plenty while charging or while in use though.
The problem is that they don't have any battery balancing yet they have something like 200Wh battery at ~40VDC. I've seen one taken apart. The battery had a Samsung SDI sticker on it, but peeled it off and the cells inside were marked Sanyo so who knows who made the battery, it's probably some clone or really old battery cells.�
Jan 15, 2016
bonnie Not saying that a hoverboard caused the fire, but I am saying it is possible that the source of the fire was something that was in the car. Smoldering cigarette, hoverboard (and yes, Auzie, I do understand how fire happens
Here's your stationary hoverboard catching fire story - but yes, it was charging at the time of the fire (plenty out there):
Hoverboard catches fire in Fox River Grove home | abc7chicago.com
------
So many possible scenarios, but just beating this one into the ground for a bit. A hoverboard could be charged off a vehicle's USB port, which could lead to problems. http://www.laglyders.com/blog/2015/12/8/hoverboard-battery-safety-how-to-use-hoverboards-safely-to-limit-risk-prevent-fire
And thanks for this discussion. I learned a few things this morning.�
Jan 15, 2016
stopcrazypp It is very common for Chinese battery suppliers to use old battery cells and put a wrapper around it and sell as a new battery cell (with ridiculously high mAh claims). It becomes very obvious without even opening the wrapper when the cells turn out slightly larger or smaller even though it is supposed to be the "same" cell.�
Jan 15, 2016
Max* �
Jan 15, 2016
bonnie Really, Max? That confused you?
I'm not saying it was specifically a hoverboard. I am saying it is very likely an outside source, such as a hoverboard, that is the cause of the fire. "Hoverboard" is an example of an outside source.
And please quote me in context. Editing my post the way you did makes it look like I was contradicting myself. I wasn't.
But the whole sentence makes it clear that it was an example. Fair?
�
Jan 15, 2016
Max* FTR: I was half instigating, half seriously confused.�
Jan 15, 2016
bonnie I'm laughing at 'half-instigating'.�
Jan 15, 2016
JER Half-investigating? Have you considered writing for Slate? :wink:�
Jan 15, 2016
wdolson We don't know what was in the car. There is a possibility that the driver was smoking and an ember fell into something flammable in the back when he opened the hatch to get something. It's also possible the driver decided to charge something he had in the car via the USB port while the car was charging on the supercharger and that battery overheated and caught fire.
It could still be something in the car's electrics that caught fire. The charging hardware is under the back seat and it's been determined the car caught fire somewhere in the back of the car.
At the moment, there is nothing we know one way or the other. The insurance investigators and Tesla may never tell the public, so we may never know. In any case it is a fluke fire.�
Jan 15, 2016
WMAC
They likely won't know either. There's not much to pull evidence from.�
Jan 15, 2016
Auzie
That is the most efficient and elegant recycling process that I've heard of, pity the product quality sucks
A cigarette ember on its own might not be sufficient to start a fire, it would need to fall on something more flammable than car components. Perhaps some clothing. Not impossible but unlikely imho.�
Jan 15, 2016
EarlyAdopter If only they weren't under the mistaken belief you shouldn't extinguish an EV fire with water...�
Jan 15, 2016
wdolson Yes, nothing in the car itself would be that flammable. Maybe he had some fireworks in the back or a can of gasoline?�
Jan 16, 2016
Model 3 One member of the Norwegian forum said that he had tried to buy this car from Tesla just before Christmas, but it was sold by the time he got to the shop. So according to this forum post it was a CPO sold by Tesla (not a privately sold car), and then probably had "some sort of servicing" by Tesla prior to the sale.�
Jan 16, 2016
lolachampcar Tesla does some sort of servicing thousands of times a week and their cars are not lighting up super chargers......... I'm hopeful we see the report soon as speculation is useless here.
Sorry for the harsh opinion but I keep visiting this thread hoping a native had posted the official inquiry results.�
Jan 16, 2016
JRP3 I'm thinking meth lab in the trunk...�
Jan 16, 2016
smac I was going to post the same thing
All the clues are there. It wasn't the drivers car, a known associate was borrowing it, the scene was cordoned off by police and the car even had "rims"
I believe it was Walthais Whitenson's car! It all makes perfect sense. Call off the official investigation TMC has solved the case�
Jan 16, 2016
ohmman I was thinking grandmother's 102nd birthday. Carrying cake with lit candles to her house.�
Jan 16, 2016
tezzla I was thinking gas fumes while filling up�
Jan 16, 2016
Yggdrasill I'm thinking the Tesla coil malfunctioned.�
Jan 16, 2016
tinm This place is turning into Reddit�
Jan 16, 2016
Johan Dank memes to follow...�
Jan 16, 2016
Johan 
�
Jan 16, 2016
jgs Seems legit. On my wife's grandmother's 80th we made the mistake of putting 80 candles on the cake. The convective draw had flames shooting a foot high and set off all the smoke alarms.�
Jan 17, 2016
smac Tesla are obviously monitoring this thread I just got a beta copy of 7.2 and had this strange disclaimer appear:
�
Jan 17, 2016
Sogorman Fantastic, just fantastic
�
Jan 17, 2016
thegruf brilliant�
Jan 17, 2016
Auzie 
�
Jan 17, 2016
swegman Someone mentioned to me that this was actually the second Tesla to have a problem in Norway in the last three months. The first Tesla car produced smoke that died out when the supercharger was disconnected from the car. This occurred while charging the car during cold conditions. Does anyone know anything about this?�
Jan 17, 2016
Model 3 It's in this thread.�
Jan 18, 2016
swegman Over time i've read all 50 pages of this thread, but don't recall reading about the "smoking" Tesla. Would you please be so kind as to refer me to the post number that discusses it. Thanks.�
Jan 18, 2016
Model 3 You did click on the link I provided? That thread is only 2 pages long...�
Jan 18, 2016
swegman Thank you. I did not see the very slight color change of the word "this" to indicate it linked to the requested info. Maybe thats because I have had 4 retina detachments and thus require larger than normal color contrast differences. Same reason it is difficult to see the "ticks" on the speedometer of the Tesla since upgrading to V7.1. Thanks again.�
Jan 18, 2016
redi TMC has long needed a VIN validation process in order to post.�
Jan 18, 2016
JER Non-owners are unwelcome? Well, that will certainly thin out the Model 3 subsection.�
Jan 18, 2016
dsm363 That's basically impossible to implement. Only Tesla could do something like this on their forum.�
Jan 18, 2016
Zythryn No, they aren't unwelcome.
Posts made by someone with a VIN are labeled as such.
It is a nice system, I like it, although the rest of their forum is awful :crying:�
Jan 18, 2016
thegruf
Why dont you suggest a high contrast display mode to Tesla. This would be pretty easy to implement and could be of benefit to those with certain vision impairments not serious enough to prevent driving.�
Jan 18, 2016
int32_t
No kidding. No thanks! :scared:�
Jan 18, 2016
brucet999 I have neither detached retinas nor color vision deficit, but I could see no difference in either darkness or color of the word "this" until I accidentally scrolled over it and turned it red.�
Jan 18, 2016
redi As such you might be able to filter based on owner posts and qualified information, or "full reddit mode".�
Jan 18, 2016
bonnie No, TMC clearly has made it clear that enthusiasts are welcome here.
Let's not make people feel unwelcome when it simply isn't true.�
Jan 19, 2016
int32_t Bonnie saves the day and rescues sanity!
Back on topic: do any Norwegian folks have some new news? I was seriously expecting a media frenzy, but oddly that never happened. (If a frenzy did occur, it would have died out by now anyway, having fulfilled its purpose of preventing further public charger installations and would provide no further useful information.)
I'm hoping this is a 100% one-off unique event hopefully started and fueled by some type of cargo rather than the car itself.�
Jan 19, 2016
3mp_kwh This thread has been Off Topic almost all year.�
Jan 19, 2016
int32_t
Since it's only January 19th, that's not saying much.�
Jan 20, 2016
DNAinaGoodWay Not SC's fault.
Tesla Model S fire not caused by Supercharger, investigators say - Autoblog
Tesla Model S fire not caused by Supercharger, investigators say�
Jan 21, 2016
fredag Tesla was supposed to investigate the wreck further together with the insurance company, but Tesla did a deal with the car owner and now the insurance company doesn't own the wreck anymore. Tesla is now shipping the wreck to California.
http://www.aftenbladet.no/nyheter/lokalt/agder/Sender-utbrent-Tesla-til-California-3853532.html
I asked the local police a week or two ago whether there had been a thermal runaway in the batteries. They wouldn't comment, but adviced me and other EV owners to be attentive when connecting charge cables and starting charging. Sound advice, I guess. Like a quick visual check of the integrity of the supercharger plug before use. Do not use cracked or damaged plugs, and call Tesla if you see damaged SC plugs.�
Jan 21, 2016
dsm363 So safe to change the title? It had nothing to do with Supercharging.�
Jan 21, 2016
apacheguy Thanks for the update. Anyone know if the Model S will be replaced by Tesla due to the fire clause in the warranty?�
Jan 21, 2016
jerry33 I'd guess it would depend on the actual cause of the fire. Fireworks in the back catching fire wouldn't be covered. Undetermined probably would.�
Jan 21, 2016
nienco2 "It appears that the reason may lie in a technical fault in the car, but we have not concluded yet, said sheriff Odd Holum in Risor, who has entrusted the matter to the insurance company Gjensidige and Tesla".
I think by now a rational person could deduce if any evidence indicated fire was started by; fireworks, cigarette or hoverboard, Tesla would not have seen it necessary to make an "arrangement" with the owner/insurance company and ship the car back to US. Let's hope it's a 1 in million one off, but also hope it's treated with transparency, for everyone's sake.�
Jan 21, 2016
JohnSnowNW Tesla can't control the quality of every component. If it was the fault of a component inside the car it could very well happen again, that's just reality.�
Jan 21, 2016
stopcrazypp If it was caused by cargo, I don't think it's possible to determine anyways given the fire department let the car burn to the ground. Tesla may have interest in the car regardless, given this is the only example of a Model S that has completely burned. In the previous examples, the fire department always extinguished the fire before it got to that point.
So I don't agree you can necessarily deduce they have ruled out cargo being the cause in this case.�
Jan 21, 2016
jgs Have they ruled out a crowbar dropped from orbit?�
Jan 21, 2016
scaesare While it may not have been the fault of the Supercharger, that doesn't mean it didn't involve Supercharging.
�
Jan 21, 2016
dhanson865 I'd assume the deal that changed the ownership so that Tesla owns the husk instead of the insurance company means that tesla bought the husk. Presumably that means the prior owner now has funds to buy another CPO as good or better than the one he sold.
I doubt Tesla bothered to provide a car when they can provide funds and let the owner make a new selection.
But you could say it meets the intent of the fire clause in the warranty. I haven't looked in that clause to see if it specifies a replacement car specifically or just the funds to offset the loss.�
Jan 21, 2016
brucet999 The fact (if it is a fact) of Tesla buying the hulk from the insurer does not mean that the owner has been made whole. He gets whatever value the insurance company agrees to pay, which should be close to the CPO price he paid, but might not be.
Isn't the fire warranty a battery fire warranty? If the fire were determined to have resulted from Bonnie having left her overcharged hover board in the trunk,�
Jan 21, 2016
Caligula So what you're saying is that I shouldn't leave my no name Chinese hover board and e-cigarette batteries Daisy chained into my Tesla's USB ports for overnight charging?�
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