Thứ Ba, 1 tháng 11, 2016

Model S Delivery Dates and Sequencing part 10

  • Jul 10, 2015
    MsElectric
    Wow that is going to be so helpful for those looking for a car. I don't know why Tesla is even bothering with their clunky interface. They should just give Hank a fully loaded P85D and have him manage their UI for people finding inventory and CPO cars. They just need to make available an XML feed so Hank's interface can display available cars and direct people to the Tesla order page.

    Whatever Tesla is paying for whoever came up with that really clunky and useless interface, they paid too much. It's like the Tesla CPO interface was designed by a committee of designers and managers who have no clue what is useful for someone looking to buy a CPO Tesla.

    Great job Hank! Can't wait to see V2 :)
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  • Jul 10, 2015
    brantse
    You can access them by clicking on the identification number link. There's just no way to identify which are "hidden" and which actually sold. The ones that all disappear in large blocks during the same hour are likely hidden.
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  • Jul 10, 2015
    Cowby
    Fantastic job indeed, y'all will definitely want to pay for the subscription features! Money easily well spent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I believe V2 is polling every 10 minutes, no? if so, then no need to do any "last updated" time stamp.
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  • Jul 10, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    Unfortunately, I've seen that a lot in my 20 years of being a web developer.
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  • Jul 10, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Thanks! I think that's almost exactly what I said two months ago when I started this endeavor.

    But now I think I'm ready to finally unleash Version 2 of the CPO Consolidator.

    Presenting: ?V-CPO

    You can get to it here: EV CPO Consolidator ev-cpo.com

    I have created a new thread specifically for discussion of the Consolidator, so any questions, comments, support, bug can be posted there, and not clutter up this thread. EV-CPO.com CPO Consolidator support thread

    Enjoy!


    P.S. A BIG THANK YOU to the beta testers who made great suggestions and bug finding. :)
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  • Jul 10, 2015
    Cyclone
    Thank you Hank! Already have a question, but I'll post on the new thread. Looks great!
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  • Jul 10, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Just in case nobody noticed, there's a new location: "Orange County/San Diego" with CPO and Inventory cars.
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  • Jul 10, 2015
    Las Vegas
    Prices

    Would be nice if Tesla was up-front about their pricing model. All these price changes, car removals, etc. Odd.
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  • Jul 11, 2015
    world101
    If all those cars with price increases of $1170 were inventory vehicles, the increase is most likely due to the "Destination and Regulatory Documentation Fee". That was the original Destination fee pricing before they raised it to $1200 several months ago.
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  • Jul 11, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Probably. I recently bought an Inventory vehicle and that fee wasn't disclosed until after I put the deposit down. I was expecting the transportation fee but assumed all other fees would be in the listed price. That's good they are making it transparent.
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  • Jul 11, 2015
    Tamar
    When I bought my inventory car last month, the price I was quoted included the $1200 destination fee, but not the $2500 to enable autopilot, which they insisted I pay. Not a big deal though I would've preferred to pay $3K when the features actually come out. Presumably the owner who backed out (car only had 9 miles on it, between that and the "customer" sticker on the windshield I conclude it was built based on an order and not to be a demo car) had not included the autopilot enablement fee in his/her order, and so not exactly sure why it had to be enabled for delivery, but it wasn't a deal-breaker.
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  • Jul 11, 2015
    tga
    Honestly, I suspect they figure if you didn't agree to paying for autopilot, the guy behind you would. In that case, why would they pass on an extra $2500 in the bank?
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  • Jul 11, 2015
    BrokerDon
    What did you pay for your 85D?

    How many miles were on it?

    What options did it have?

    Sorry if this was asked before but I didn't have time to scroll through 126 pages in this thread. :cool:
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  • Jul 11, 2015
    Tamar
    Options are in my sig (below and above)...the car I bought was never listed on the Tesla's or the CPO site. It was brand new, discount just under $1900. My SM found it for me. It had 9 miles on it when it arrived in Mpls, and 18 miles on it when I picked it up just over a week ago.
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  • Jul 12, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Someone's working at Tesla Canada today. Seven new cars added. First time in a full month any cars were added to Canada.

    Here's a nicely equipped S60 with Pano roof and leather interior for CAN$62600 60 kWh Model S P03973 | Tesla Motors Canad

    Screen Shot 2015-07-12 at 10.12.20 PM.png
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  • Jul 12, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    One more thing -- there were 24 P85+s miscoded as P85s (again due to miscoding on the Tesla CPO site). So if you were looking for a P85+, you might want to go back and look at the list again and filter for P85+, there are now 24 more cars available.
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  • Jul 12, 2015
    SmartElectric
    Interesting. Rumour has it (you need to purchase the historical reporting capability of your app to see this) that there have been S85 offered at this price too... l-)
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  • Jul 12, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Any plans for a mobile app?
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  • Jul 12, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    I've thought about it, but I don't think it would sell enough to make it worth the time it would take to develop. Also, I'm not sure how to display big grid data like that on a mobile device. What a mobile app could deliver, the Alerts on EV-CPO.com already can deliver.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Heh thanks for clarifying. I kept doing sorts & thinking "Boy that's weird P85s are showing up in the P85+ strata. Not moving 'em at that price."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just to clarify: the 44 cars in the Hidden section are CPO cars that were removed but then put back. But (if I'm understanding this correctly) they won't show up under any region if you go to the TM Pre-owned site. We know they are available because CPOC pulls the page for that specific VIN. All correct?

    We don't know beyond speculation why a car is pulled and then later placed in the Hidden purgatory, but I find the product mix interesting. Whereas the P85+s comprise just over 40% (114/281) of the CPO listings, the plus edition is nearly 3/4s of the Hidden listings (32/44).
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    If you see any anomalies, please speak up!


    That's correct sort of. They were removed from the CPO site and are not selectable in any region, but appear to be salable on the individual VIN page. They may or may not have been "put back". My suspicion is just inventory rotation.

    Oh, and if anyone actually buys one of the hidden cars, please let us know.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    Cyclone
    One would imagine that even if nobody looks at the car, every couple weeks the vampire drain would be enough that the centers need to look at the cars and that would make a great opportunity to put them in the front-end CPO listings inventory. Given that Tesla is limiting the number of cars per location being listed, that necessitates one car being dropped. It is probably also a good way to validate the feature/option set on the cars since we have seen discrepancies in the listings to what's on the actual car.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Gotcha, so it's a working theory at this point. Hopefully we'll get confirmation. Or we could just call to verify if Vin xxxxx is available.




    The new columns are an awesome feature, Hank! Well worth the price of a couple lattes.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    Drucifer
    Totally makes sense. Top income buyers who trade cars every 1-2 years dumping their + to get a D.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    3mp_kwh
    Quick question: Anybody having bought CPO, do you remember the process of reserving online as having a place where you notated comments, or concerns?

    Thanks.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    BoerumHill
    I agree that would explain the P85+ plurality of cars in the overall CPO program. The unexplained aspect is why does that plurality become a supermajority in the hidden category. Since we're not really sure what triggers hidden - hidden meaning removed from CPO but the individual Vin page becomes active later - I don't think we can answer.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    Drucifer
    Since they are the most expensive CPO cars, they are also slower moving than others. Cars below $55k move very quickly. The new market (P85+, P85) of cars selling to "high net-worth" individuals in 2012-2014 that have been turned in are not well matched to the 2nd "aspiring" buyer, looking to move up from a Prius or similar for a semi-affordable down/monthly payment. The 2-3 year old 60 or lower cost/higher mileage 85 matches that market more closely.

    Personally, I was a unicorn. Without CPO, I probably would have bought a new 70D with mid-level of options. I just decided that I would be more willing to have a 2 year old car in like new condition with CPO warranty to get every option (and save a few bucks, while I'm at it). There is some of that, but I think more people in my position would go the other way and get a new car.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    MsElectric
    I think cars get "hidden" when they are not selling to make room for other vehicles that may sell. I am not at all surprised to see plus edition cars not selling as well as I personally never saw any benefit for getting the plus edition.

    The Plus edition cars are more expensive than the standard P version but the key thing is that it is not any faster. Sure it *might* corner better when pushed to its limits but I am pretty much interested in straight line acceleration and will not be pushing the car to its cornering limits. Also with the less durable 21" low profile tires that I would not get for our badly maintained streets the plus package really has no value in it to me.

    Given an identical P85 and a P85+ at the same price, I would get the P85 with the more durable wheels.

    If other CPO buyers feel the way I do, they might have a hard time justifying much of a premium, if any at all, for the plus package. I do see it is a great option for RWD purists who want the absolute best in performance but I wonder if there are enough of them around to move the plus inventory in significant numbers when you can get pretty much the same straight line acceleration with a regular P.

    I would think they'd want to move that plus inventory soon because by the time the P85Ds and the 85Ds are added to the CPO inventory the bottom is going to fall out of the plus edition values.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Aha, thanks for expanding. Makes sense - move out the slower moving, higher priced models and slot in cheaper Vins that will turnover. There would be no need to do all those gymnastics, but they're determined to control the flow and demand by capping each region at 40 listings.





    re: P85 v. P85+ - I don't disagree with your line of thinking at all, MsElectric. In fact I've driven S60 and 70D, and both have awesome acceleration for a large sedan and superb handling. I'd argue you can buy almost any config Model S, any Vin, and you're going to be driving one the most fun cars ever built (and safest...quickest...ever improving from OTA updates...et al.)

    That said, if you dig up old threads where folks are comparing Performance to Performance Plus, there is an enormous delta to some drivers. It's not something that would appeal to a large segment. But for driving enthusiasts, there is a discernable difference. But the P85+ doesn't have broad appeal because of the staggered setup - which Hank and others have proven you can disregard and square up - and it eats those 21s for breakfast.

    IIRC Hank has 2002ish (?) M5 e39. There are many performance fans who hold the opinion that is the best M5 ever built, and it's arguably the ultimate production sedan. That's an example of the narrow market the Plus edition is targeted towards. If you are coming into the Model S from another luxury sedan, or stretching your budget to step up, handling characteristics are not the prism you are viewing the Model S from. In that case, the 9" rear tires and stiffer ride hold little sway. The pragmatic answer is to get what you need and ignore features/options you don't see the value in. As I said above, you're getting an awesome EV regardless.
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Everything you say here is true! I love sport-sedans, and yes, arguably the e39 is one of the best in that class (before BMW went all crazy with the "M" line with v10s and v12s and gadgets and electronics out the wazoo!).

    What's funny here is that I didn't start out looking for a P85+. I was looking at inventory cars with a good discount, and the discounts on the S85s P85s were pretty damn good -- a lot less than I would have spent new. Until my sales advisor found a Blue P85+ for about the price that a P85 would have been ordered new at the time. Even though it was a bit more than I wanted to spend, it was such a good deal, I couldn't turn it away, and bought the P85+ about 6 months before I really was planning on getting one. But BOY OH BOY am I so happy that I ended up with a P85+ instead of just a P85. While both amazing cars, there is a palatable difference in handling and drivability. I'm sure I would have been just as happy with an Inventory P85, mostly because I likely wouldn't have really experienced a P85+. Also, I did square up the 21" rims and have 245/35/21s tires on them for summer (and run 19" rims in the winter.) I've also notice no real difference between the 9" and 8.5" rims in the rear.

    And of course, every time MsElectric chimes in to slam the 21" rims which SHE HAS NEVER OWNED, I have to chime in that I also live in the same NYC area, and haven't HAD A SINGLE PROBLEM with the 21" rims, and I've hit a couple whopper potholes. So again, please stop posting about the Model S 21" rims with which you have no experience. thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Last week I sent an email to [email�protected] with a specific question asking if a "hidden" P85+ was still available for sale. (I just said 'it appears to be for sale, but not listed in the Los Angeles page'). They responded:

    :rolleyes:
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  • Jul 13, 2015
    ModelSFL
    There are some great deals for the P85s but I decided that the Autopilot feature was going to be worth more to me than a bigger battery. I ended up with a 60. Not sure if it was the right choice but I can only hope that AP is going to be awesome.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    jtpassat
    you can always swap out the 60 battery with a 85 in the future.

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  • Jul 14, 2015
    ModelSFL
    I hope they have 120 kwh batteries by then :)
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    brantse
    Is this true? I really don't know, but I've never heard that discussed before. FWIW, there are other differences between the 60's and 85's (ie. motor power ratings).
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Hopeful wishing. Not true as far as I know.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    jtpassat
  • Jul 14, 2015
    Cyclone
    It should be noted that one or two folks in the past have done this, recently Tesla has declined to let it happen (or made it price-adverse to choose to do so). The common belief is that until the Gigafactory is running, Tesla is battery constrained for production. As such, they will make warranty replacements if necessary, but they won't optionally sell you a battery for an upgrade because it means one less car they chan produce currently. However, this should also be noted that it's discussions on these forums and not firsthand knowledge.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    MsElectric
    I am sure you know how much I respect you but it is disappointing that you feel just because I have not owned a car with 21" low profile wheels I can't comment on this matter based on my past experience with low profile wheels. Tesla low profile wheels are of course not magical (or made of Titanium) and behave the same as low profile wheels offered by Mercedes. I am so incredibly happy that you have survived fine with low profile wheels on NY streets. Good for you Hank but it is a matter of physics that given a bad pothole or poor road conditions a regular profile wheel will offer better survivability than a low profile wheel. I have very low tolerance for wheel damage and failures and based on my past experience with that type of wheels, I will not get them again in a car.

    There is no logical reason to put down my reasoning that is based on my personal experience and Tesla Motors' own statement on the Web page where you order a Model S. I understand you love your low profile wheels and I'm happy for you. Just understand that there are a segment of customers who have less tolerance for the possibility of wheel damage. Just search the Tesla forums for actual posts by Tesla owners who've had durability issues with 21" wheels. Again, I am so happy you have not have had such issues but others have and there are those who value being able to minimize potential wheel damage. One example of non-damage does not override the underlying physics.

    I am sure as smart as you are, you can understand that my comments have to do with the physics of the wheels. As the amount of sidewall is reduced the propensity for wheel damage increases. Furthermore I am sharing the official position of Tesla Motors pertaining to the wheels. The following is what the Tesla Design studio has to say about the wheels when you order a car:

    Capture.JPG

    I have had low profile wheels before on a Mercedes and I've had a horrible experience with them. As I've said before for the same cost I would rather get an identically configured P85 over a P85+ because of the more durable wheels. It is a fact that the 19" wheels are more durable and it is a matter of physics. Tesla or Mercedes, I will not own another car with low profile wheels and I appreciate you allowing me to share my views without trying to marginalize them. I don't necessarily need to own low profile wheels in 21" to know they are less durable :) And thank you, for all you do for the Tesla community.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    jtpassat
    I give this 62k P85 less than 12 hours - 7/14/15 2pm EST

    85 kWh Performance Model S P17496 | Tesla Motors

    - - - Updated - - -

    who in their right mind would pay the same price for a S60 vs. P85 I just posted just because it has 20k less miles?

    http://www.teslamotors.com/models/preowned/P44916
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    3mp_kwh
    I think if it has Autopilot, you are supposed to give up your first born.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Yeah exactly. I paid about 59k after tax credit for a 60 even though I could get a 85 with other features for around the same price. The only reason why I didn't was for AP's futures. I hope I made the right decision!
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    cryptyk
  • Jul 14, 2015
    brantse
    I thought the same thing. If you had the kind of scratch to afford that, I'd think you would at least want to pick the color.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    MsElectric
    I agree. That price makes no sense unless someone is incapable of waiting 4-6 weeks. This is a CPO car so you loose out on about $10K in rebates depending on where you live. With the rebates included you can buy a brand new car for about the same cost that no one else had driven before. It's a not a great deal but I'm sure someone will buy it :)
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    jtpassat
    that's the kicker, no Autopilot!
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    Drucifer
  • Jul 14, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Because a P85 is always a better buy than a S60, in every circumstance? So let's discount mileage (even though 25K miles is not insignificant...) and just line them up for now.

    Tale of the tape


    • P85 vs. S60 - this one shouldn't be close.
    • Vin 17496 vs. Vin 44916 - these build dates are about 11 months apart. Fremont improves 20-30 parts or processes every week. This is not an insignificant consideration.
    • Silver vs. solid White - the most subjective choice, but white - not Pearl W but just solid W - outpolls silver in the Deliver Tracker by a wide margin (better than 2:1 several quarters)
    • body color vs. pano - about 1:4 or 1:5 is the common ratio here. Pano is a big part of the Model S identity IMO.
    • same wheels, same performance leather - PUSH
    • CF d�cor & CF spoiler vs. Piano black & matching yacht floor - edge P85
    • Active Air (not SAS) vs. UHFS - PUSH
    • The last two are apples vs. oranges but that's the problem with comparing apples and oranges

    So it's a pretty bare bones P85 vs. an adequate S60 (though actually items like MYF & UHFS are super rare in 60s.) I dunno, doesn't seem crazy they are in the same strata.








    At the end of the day, I feel like we don't have to right metrics and data points to evaluate the CPO yet, though. Like we should, by now, have figured out some rough guidelines along the lines of:

    List price of this P85 = 96,470 - [{-600 x 23 months} + {-.60 x 34598 miles}] = 61911.20
    List price of this S60 = 74,570 - [{-600 x 12 months} + {-.60 x 9116miles}] = 61900.40

    (hypothetical list & depreciation factors, for illustrative purposes only)

    I'm not suggesting depreciation rates of $600 per month or $0.60 per mile are the benchmark; I am merely pointing out that a proper methodology would use this kind of quantitative approach.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Wow, well done. What are your thoughts about the CPOs that are autopilot capable? What type of value do you see those bringing?
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    dalamchops
    just a correction, even if it's listed as Active Air, all suspensions were upgraded to SAS via firmware.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Good info, thanks pard.
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    Insane
    This car is fully loaded. Adding 7,500 it comes to $ 118,400 Vs $ 126,750
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    cryptyk
    Fair point. I guess I just discounted the fact that it has third row seats and cold weather package instinctively :)

    You're right though - it's probably the perfect setup for someone!
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  • Jul 14, 2015
    Cyclone
    In particular if said individual can't fully take advantage of the tax incentives.
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    jtpassat
    They both have the same warranty so build quality should not be a factor, any issues just have Tesla fix it. The battery size difference alone is enough of a deal breaker for most IMO. 85kw vs. 60kw at the same price with the same warranty. That is a no brainer.

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  • Jul 15, 2015
    BoerumHill
    I see neither one of us is an owner yet, but based on other's experiences and watching videos, folks comparing their own vehicles to later build loaners note palpable differences in noise, tightness, parts, et al. So it's not true "there is no difference in build between 2013 and 2014." The car improves through OTA updates, but the build improves through process engineering and changing assembly parts (many unseen we're not aware of.)

    In addition, 25,000 miles is not a small difference. I'm pretty sure that P85 with 34K is going to rolling down the road for a long, long time - but you can't simply dismiss a difference that large and pretend it isn't a factor in the price.

    Most folks looking at 85s aren't considering 60s. That gap increases when we're talking about prospective P85 buyers vs. S60. But that's not the discussion. Getting back on point, the Q is does it make sense they would have the same price? I think I laid out a pretty solid argument it's not an anomaly, they should be in the price band. Your argument seems to be "Because 85" while ignoring all other data points.

    Now if you and I are discussing what each of us personally would want to buy, we don't have a difference of opinion. I'm not so enamored with AP that I would buy a 60 just to get it, while foregoing the opportunity to drive a performance model that has 27% greater range and a WAY higher Teslagrin factor.
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    Drucifer
    That's where I landed. When I replace this car in maybe 4-5 years, and Gen 2 or 3 of autopilot hardware is being installed with Gen 5 or 6 of the AP software, I will be ready to have that. In the meantime I have a rather luxurious and badass Model S.
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    jtpassat
    Complete agreement. Although that 60 doesn't even have AP!

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  • Jul 15, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Doh! Of course it doesn't...I never sort by that, but I see they're priced 72-86k before the deferred tax credit. I think I misremembered because the first follow up post asked about valuing the AP.

    OK, that and I'm middle aged & forget s&*+ all the time...
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    3mp_kwh
    I wouldn't go by statements, like this, if you are new to considering a Tesla MS. It makes it sound as though the car has been reinvented, and it hasn't. Features matter to some, like automatic folding mirrors, parking sensors or adaptive cruise control. Others might be more intent to pick up genuine improvements like bushings, the sub-frame and going from 90kw, to 115kw super-charging. Whether it matters, or not, you should end up with a list that isn't much more than a couple dozen items long.

    Hank has done a great job of making it so that newbies don't have to know how the "Tech" package changed over time. Internal changes don't cause the fever around here as much, and for however many there may have been, most of the significant ones show up in the driving dynamics, and charging, sub-forums.
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    They say memory is the second thing to go.
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    dusterbuster
    Hi everyone, newbie member here. I just placed a deposit for a CPO 2012 S85 configured with 19" wheels and had a few questions:

    (1) Does anyone know whether it's possible to upgrade to the 21" tires/wheels before pick-up, and what Tesla typically charges for the upgrade?
    (2) Did the 2012 models come with parking sensors?
    (3) Are there any significant hardware updates that I'm missing out on with a MY2012 versus 2013/14? I know I'm missing out on Auto Pilot features.

    Thanks!
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    shadowinstallz
    Congrats!!

    1. I'm not sure what the cost is but I would imagine its possible at full retail. $5500? Your better off going through the classifieds section and picking up a set half price.

    2. No parking sensors....I believe they started late 2013....

    3. I think electro chromatic folding mirrors., parcel shelf depending if the orig owner had it.? , smaller visors, cruise control and turning signal stalked reversed

    someone correct me if I'm wrong or missing anything
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    Drucifer
    You are not getting autopilot, parking sensors, next gen seats and power folding mirrors, primarily. You should be able to trade your 19s (probably along with some cash) for 21s after you get the car. Buying 21s from Tesla is a $5500 deal. If you want that style, you can do much better with aftermarket rims that look very similar....or a trade.
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    dusterbuster
    Thanks shadowninstallz and Drucifer, very helpful! Do you know whether it's possible to retrofit the parking sensors? The Model S is not what I would consider a smallish car, so I think having parking sensors would be a nice daily convenience. I think I can sacrifice the other upgrades for the price savings (although auto pilot does sound cool).
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    Drucifer
    Retrofits are super expensive. The power folding mirrors are around $1400. The sensors are probably way more than that. The backup camera with the software update providing curving guide lines is very good. I don't miss the sensors, and I had them on my last car.
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    dusterbuster
    Thanks. I think I'll learn to live without the sensors. I just hope the car comes in good condition. Have people been pretty happy with their CPO cars? Mine is a 2012 model with about 28k miles, so it's one of the older cars out there.
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    brianman
    ~$40 for those emblems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    For comparison, my inventory P85D was ~$114k in April with ~2,800 miles and a 69,xxx VIN.

    Differences (mine vs. this):
    - Inventory vs. CPO [worth $7,500 to me]
    - Purchased in June in WA [worth 9.5% tax savings to me]
    - Silver vs. Pearl white
    - Cyclone vs. "OEM" 19s
    - Black NG vs. Tan NG
    - No lighting package on mine vs. Premium Interior Package (different configurator packagings as well)
    - No subzero on mine
    - No rear-facing seats on mine
    - Twin Chargers vs. unspecified
    - Self closing charge port vs. unspecified
    - Mine has > 10,000 miles on it now ;)
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  • Jul 15, 2015
    NorCalP85
    First off, newbie here as well so hello to everyone.

    Dusterbuster, can't say for sure about all of them but my CPO car was in great shape, nearly perfect. Picked up my 2013 P85 with 25,000miles, vin <6000, on Last Saturday and couldn't be happier, already added nearly 1000miles. Interior/exterior were detailed to as close to new as possible and tires and wheels look to be brand new, have the 21's and not a single scratch on them.

    Got or a great deal, was planning on ordering new but couldn't pass it up since it had nearly all the options (really wanted next gen seats but the performance seats aren't bad) that I wanted. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I am enjoying mine.

    Heres my my cars details:
    Grey P85, vin: 5689, Pano Roof, Tech Package, Air Suspension, Sound Studio Package, Grey Performance interior, Obeche Matte wood, 21in Grey wheels.
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  • Jul 16, 2015
    Drucifer
    Ditto, except 18,300 miles and have added about 1500 miles. Next Gen seats are really better, but I can get that next time.
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  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    I'm just about to hit 3k miles after 2 months of having my CPO that came with 31.5k miles. I've had a number of challenges and some still on-going. To a degree, I regret my decision to get a Tesla at this time. But I am taking it all in and giving the benefit of the doubt that part of this is my specific vehicle and part of this is my own personal situation with moving to a premium-type vehicle. I've learned a couple things over the past few months that I really wished I knew before I ever ordered, but overall I'm still happy. I am hoping by the time I get to 4 months I can finally use the car as I intended as a daily driver and road tripper rather than right now babying it as I get item after item fixed.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    ModelSFL
    What a bummer, what types of issues are you having?
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  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    Fixed:
    - mirrors were seized and replaced
    - pano roof smeared and its track was replaced
    - trunk struck made knocking sound when opening/closing and was replaced
    - cosmetic rust covering the rotor "covers/head" - not impacting functionality (will not be fixed since not impairing functionality of brakes)
    - vehicle delivered with scratch on rear passenger quarter panel and rear bumper paint cracked and was repainted

    Outstanding:
    - left scroll wheel doesn't always work
    - driver front interior door handle doesn't always work
    - drive unit whine up to 20 kW of power and sometimes more
    - clunking when transitioning between driving and regen
    - rear suspension bottoms out (suspension, not the car - car never hits ground) when going over speed bumps at 12 MPH on Very High air suspension. 11 it just rumbles over them, but at 12, it kicks me out of my seat because the car basically slams down on the suspension.
    - headliner was being cleaned at pickup and thus, was wet. Now that its dry, there are smears and stains everywhere
    - first detailing of the vehicle unveiled stick residue on front fender. Cleanup ended up removing clear coat of paint. Tesla asking me to have body shop make determination if original paint failure to see if it is something they will repaint. Otherwise, I'm out-of-pocket a repaint.

    Part of this I guess is nitpicking, but the volume of it has really bothered me. Meanwhile, due to unexpected expenses with the purchase, I am budgetting to get electrical work on the house done, so still charging on 120v. That was going to happen this month, but if I have to pay for the repaint, it will be another month or two before I can budget for the electrical. Additionally, another 60 days of downtime of the vehicle to let it cure before I'm allowed to wash or get it wrapped.

    Pics of the body work, which ironically are what bother me the most for a car that is "reconditioned to like-new status".
    MX7HJVn.jpg
    ZQSt9On.jpg
    bd6urAd.jpg
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    brantse
    Ouch! That last pic looks really looks a little rough. Is the paint really rubbed off completely, like it appears in the picture?

    Do you happen to have any friends/family that know much about electrical work? I'm by far an electrician, but managed to feed and install a new subpanel and NEMA 14-50, just to be sure I've got that part out of the way :wink:.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    None of the Tesla-certified body shops are open when I'm not at work. So I've scheduled a day off next week so I can take the car to them for the determination on the paint. It does appear to be rubbed off to my non-expert eye.

    Totally doable and have found a good electrician to get it done, but that is part of the "personal life" interfering with things. We just moved into a new place, so the garage was full for until recently so nobody would be able to get in there and run wiring. Add to that the current panel is full, so we will need to do a subpanel. This isn't Tesla's problem and not an issue overall, just another gripe of having the car for two months now and just not being at a steady state of regular use. Thankfully, it hasn't been a problem since we have 30a J1772s at work.
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  • Jul 16, 2015
    dusterbuster
    Cyclone, sorry to hear about all your issues with the car. I can't believe Tesla delivered the car in that condition, especially with the paint issues. Hopefully everything will be great and you can just enjoy the car after resolving the remaining issues. But it makes me more wary about my recent CPO order. I'm thinking now that perhaps I should pick up the car in the SF Bay Area, thinking perhaps they might do a more proper reconditioning if I pickup near Tesla's home base, rather than picking up from the local center, in LA but that's probably wishful thinking.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    I wouldn't necessarily let me experience taint your decision. I could simply be that one outliner where the planets and stars aligned to make my experience very difficult. And Tesla Service has been easy to work with - it just has not been a painless process getting my vehicle and getting "up to speed".
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    @ Cyclone

    Wow what car year was it? 2012? 2013? I just hope the 85D I plan to get will be better built. I am not convinced your experience is isolated. I have heard other people having little issues with CPO cars and new cars too. Given the recent deluded of problems I have been reading on this forum, I am surprised the model S got such a high rating in most reviews. Maybe these reviews only take into account owning a tesla for a few days at most so these problems don't manifest itself in such a short time period.

    I guess it is true about what they say about early adopters. They are more than willing to overlook the little things. Main stream consumers are much less likely to put up with the problems. I hope teslas are better built now and in the future because if this will be the case for the Model 3, I can say, with confidence, I will be selling my TSLA stocks by then.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Cyclone - If you don't mind sharing, how many miles were on your 2013 S85 when you took delivery? How much did you pay? What was the build date of VIN 78xx?

    TIA
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    My vehicle is a 2013 that had 31.5k miles at pickup. Its has the Gen 1 Foglights, so it was built before the temporary removal of foglights before Gen 2 was made available later in 2013.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Jool
    Wow, the paint in that last photo looks like it was rubbed off down to the primer. Sorry to hear you've had so many issues with your car. I'm currently deciding between purchasing new or getting a CPO, but I'm starting to lean towards new...
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    Totally forgot one other issue. I edited my post above.
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  • Jul 16, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    My car has both of these, and I'll get them addresses next time the car is in for service, or possibly next year at the annual service visit. They are a little annoying, but not serious.

    The thing you have to realize about forums like this is that people mostly post about the problems they are having, and very few people post that they have zero issues with new, CPO or Inventory cars. I bought a 2013 Inventory car last year, and have essentially zero issues with it.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Drucifer
    I was fortunate that my issues were quickly resolved in the 1st week. My issues were.

    Acorns from an oak tree inside the frunk lid rattling when the frunk was opened or closed - acorns removed
    Crack in the windshield - replaced
    Nose cone had 5 drill holes - replaced
    Wrong rims on car when delivered (car had std 19" rims and should have had grey 21" rims) - rims replaced with new and new tires
    Carbon fiber spoiler was missing from vehicle - added
    "P85" badge was missing from rear - added
    ambient lighting on rear passenger door wired backwards (was off when the other doors were on and vice-versa) - repaired
    12V positive jump post replaced per bulletin - replaced

    Since every item was fixed within 7 days of delivery, and I have had no subsequent issues, I have pretty much forgotten about it. I'm sure there were other items that they had fixed prior to delivery as well (they definitely repainted the front bumper and put replacement paint armor on).
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    TomServo
    Does anyone have a POC and phone number at the Chicago location I can call and ask some CPO purchase and Trade-In questions to?

    Thanks in advance
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Max*
    New cars have issues too. My less than 4 week car had the door handle replaced because it stopped working. And a couple other minor things looked at/fixed.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    brantse
    If you call the number shown on any of the CPO listings (888) 518-3752, they can connect you to whatever store/service center you'd like to speak with.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Sounds like a pretty solid experience.

    Hey, if you don't mind...

    VIN?
    Mileage @ pickup?
    Mon/Yr build?

    TIA

    This is really helpful hearing about the CPO ownership. This will be the most expensive vehicle I've ever bought & I value the input.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    I guess I can have Tesla look at some of these soon. Some of them I hadn't even told them about yet as I like to first eliminate if its user-error. For instance, in one of our other cars, pulling the door level when the car is locked will unlock the car, but not open the door. A second pull will actually unlatch the door. So I have tried to be cognizant if that is what is happening when I think the door handle isn't opening the car.

    In any event, Tesla just left me a message saying they want the car for a day to so a proactive "power switch" replacement from what Engineering HQ is seeing. Based on a search here, this sounds like the proactive contactor replacement program. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and they will clear out most of my laundry list here. :)
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Drucifer
    P04093 / 18,300 / 2013, February I believe
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  • Jul 16, 2015
    BoerumHill

    Thanks, pard.

    Both you and Cyclone bought within the first couple weeks after the CPO site went live, correct? Bummed to hear of his issues. And that paint...ugh.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    We bought within 3 minutes of each other and I believe live within 3 miles of each other. I've already had one friend call me to tell me they saw me driving down the street to then realize through the conversation they saw Drucifer.

    Also, it is important to note that the rear scratch was seen and Tesla immediately stepped up to the plate and said they will get it repainting as it should have been caught during reconditioning. The front fender they want me to have their shop make a determination because their position is that it wasn't visible to be defective when I picked up and they have no record of a Tesla-authorized work in that area previously. So they said that if this is a original paint failure, they will get it fixed. But if the previous owner had the work done without involving Tesla, it would not be covered as part of the reconditioning. As such, I would up the creek to get it fixed myself. One of those things that "I wish I knew previously" was to learn about how to check for paintwork so I could have seen about finding this problem area up front and having it noted as a delivery punch-list item.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    ahurst
  • Jul 16, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Seems like a fair price. It's got just about every option except RFS & no Dual Chargers, two items a lot of people can do without. FYI - that VIN is just before they started doing power folding mirrors. Not a deal breaker, but just so you know.

    If it were me, I'd pass, but my criteria is different from yours no doubt. I'm only looking at VIN 26XXX and later (basically Dec 2013 onward), and four digit mileage. I'm not a fan of lacewood and there were some care issues brought up, but that's a pretty minor consideration. Local is a nice consideration, hopefully less wait time.

    Is that true NO TRANSPORT FEE? I just presumed $500 was if it's in my market, and it goes up from there. That is pretty sweet if they don't impose any fee.

    ETA: I think it's a fair price. You can find VIN above and below it similarly priced (or explainable differences due to mileage), and ditto for other cars with similar odometer reading. It's not a steal but if it's got what you're looking for, go for it. Life's short and we're not getting any younger.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Cyclone
    $500 if they move it within market (sometimes that definition is blurred like between DC -> Charlotte, which was 400 miles and considered "within market" cost). However, picking it up at the "home store/service center" will indeed be $0.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    dusterbuster
    I know this is probably a difficult question for other people to answer, since everyone has their own personal considerations regarding whether a particular Model S is a smart buy, but I just learned that the S85 that I placed a deposit for yesterday comes with the textile interior (wasn't specifically listed), and I'm debating whether or not to look for another CPO vehicle. Here is my config:

    S85 / 2012 / 27,820 miles / Blue Metallic / Textile / Body Color Roof / 19" wheels / Obeche Matte / Tech Package / Active Air Suspension / Sound Studio Package

    The price was $51,400, which seemed pretty good for an S85, albeit a 2012 model with some miles. Ideally, I would have preferred if the car had the Panoramic roof and 21" turbine wheels, and gray interior would have been nice. But the low price initially sold me, and I figured it was worth it for me to give up the roof and wheels for the savings. Now I'm thinking I might want to upgrade the wheels in any event, and the textile interior has me second guessing the purchase.

    Anyone have any thoughts/opinions on whether it's worth the cost savings to go with the textile interior (and forgo the pano roof and 21" wheels)?
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    andrewket
    And the old suspension.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    andrewket
    Having had 21" wheels in the past, I would avoid them like the plague. Lots of threads on this, and you'll get conflicting opinions.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    Drucifer
    You need to make sure the car was NEVER REGISTERED IN COLORADO. Otherwise you forfeit a sweet tax credit.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    alwaysru
    That one was only up for like 5 minutes. I saw it, called my wife, and by the time I sent it to her you must have reserved it. Nice work and an AMAZING price.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    While I like the 21" wheels, if in your position, I would consider the 19" Sportline TST wheels for about $1500 plus tires .. If you're still ok with the textile and non pano roof.
    �
  • Jul 16, 2015
    AMPd
    I saw that car!
    From the photos it looked like it had textile seats, but you're right it was not in the description.

    I have 21s and to be honest I love them, however sometimes I wish I had the 19 inch wheels as I've already curbed mine and the ride is a bit louder and firmer than what I remember after test driving an s85 with 19s
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    Jaeger

    So, I had two deposits on two different CPO cars, I was able to apply the deposit from the one I didn't want to the one I purchased with no time constraints. They even added a new nose cone without the license bracket. I'm a happy camper, will be picking my Blue 2013 P85 tomorrow, 11k miles, all options except for jump seats and cold weather package, $67k. Also included the Factory tour :).

    image.jpg
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    brantse
    I wonder why this keeps happening with a few of the vehicles. Maybe it's just because they're the ones I tend to view the most often, but it seems like the lower priced vehicles have a greater tendancy to not show the options on the listing.
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    ahurst
    Yep I almost forgot about that $6k- thanks
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    shadowinstallz
  • Jul 17, 2015
    Sm4llz
    Awesome price and exactly what i'll be looking for...some day. :)

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was bidding on that a bit last night. I wasn't sure how high it would get with that many miles on it. Also the seller had 0 feedback and even though it was a no reserve auction the seller said they reserve the right to cancel the auction so i wonder if it'll actually sell for that price.
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    ModelSFL
    With the base model for the 70 coming in at 70k, I wonder how it will impact the CPO prices since many of the 60s are in the 70k range already..
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    Twiglett
    indeed - there are bunch of 60s in there that are now way overpriced.
    I suspect there are more price drops imminent for the CPO and inventory stock.....
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    ModelSFL
    I wonder what the base 60 should be at if the 70 kwh is 70k then I would suspect a CPO would start at 60k for the S60.
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    cab

    That's a beautiful ride right there - nice and congrats!
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    ahurst
    My head is spinning with today's press conference.
    Leasing is really the way to go now since every 90 days Elon announces something new...
    I don't think I can risk CPO at this point.
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    SmartElectric
    I'm over the moon happy with my CPO. The first few years of depreciation are behind it, the car has fantastic range and speed, I couldn't want for more.

    I also buy used laptops for my family as well, as I can get amazing value for a few hundred instead of a thousand. Yeah, doesn't have the latest stuff, but is 90% as good a the newest. This is how I feel about my CPO S85, it's more than I could have dreamed.
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    Drucifer
    Actually, the opposite is true. I bought an "already obsolete and depreciated" P85. The real risk is in having a new car and then having it's configuration retired in a few months. They already stopped making the P85 9 months ago. They can't stop making it again. It has already taken whatever hit for being discontinued. I benefitted from the lower price AND have insurance that it won't be discontinued again.
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  • Jul 17, 2015
    Las Vegas
    How long .....

    I doubt this one will be up for long: 60 kWh Model S P07619 | Tesla Motors

    I still haven't pulled the trigger on my beloved precious! Opting for the S85 and waiting for the right car to come along. I think those inventory cars are backed up. They'll be coming down into inventory soon enough! *Prays to the Electric Gods*
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  • Jul 17, 2015
    Twiglett
    I'm the same - after doing a test drive it really is too much car for our needs, but as each new announcement puts downward pressure on CPO prices it does get more and more tempting.
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    FlatSix911
    No Tech package ... meh
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    neroden
    I keep watching the CPOs while considering buying a second car but I am very very picky -- must have cloth headliner, old seats, white exterior, light-colored interior, tech package, 85, and preferably dual chargers (otherwise I have to pay to add them) and parking sensors... I guess picky people like me should order new :)
    �
  • Jul 17, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Anyone in the Baton Rouge area who might like to give a good friend of mine a test drive in a P85 or P85+ who is looking to trade up from his BMW 3 series?
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  • Jul 17, 2015
    Las Vegas
    Wise....

    I agree. I think people are getting wise. Price drop on cars is inevitable. Too often we see pictures with lots and lots of what appeared to be CPO/Inventory cars. Probably best to let demand determine price over keeping inventory that gradually loses value. As time goes by I do get more picky.
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  • Jul 18, 2015
    TDR32
    Does anyone think these prices will be buoyed by Tesla battery pack replacement? The caveat being a reasonable price to do so.
    �
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