Nov 14, 2013
GDH multiple times. I will probably take it back to the SC next week.�
Nov 14, 2013
apacheguy +1. It's called "rated" range for a reason, right? And didn't EPA already determine 308 W/mi on the 85 kw? Hence, rated should equal that number without exception. Not too sure of their reasoning and logic behind changing the calculation.
I don't see a reason why rated range should even be affected by temperature. Now, with projected range, that's a different story.�
Nov 14, 2013
tdiggity I didn't read the "range calculation change" statement that way. I think what they mean is that they are measuring state of charge differently. For example, if your battery is cold, you'll likely see less miles because the battery pack cannot be read reliably. Once your battery is at optimal conditions, you'll get a better read out. But, you won't "gain" range as we've seen when going downhill for a long time, you'll just see it stick at the current rated miles for a long period of time.�
Nov 14, 2013
Eggplant @tdiggity I agree. They changed the SOC calculation, both estimating the current SOC and figuring out when charging reaches a requested SOC. This in turn will result in changes to a rated range number at a given SOC.
Unrelated:
Has anyone noticed that supercharger charges no longer seem to get added to the visited chargers list? I charged at my first SC under 4.5 and it was added to this list. But today, my charge at the new Rocky Mount charger under 5.6 was not.�
Nov 14, 2013
Bugeater I don't have 5.6 yet but I have noticed that I don't have ANY range charges listed. On my 5540 mile trip May - Jun, we range charged twice a day for 3 weeks! So far all of my charge locations are listed. Will watch once I get 5.6.�
Nov 14, 2013
Btrflyl8e I've always lost around 7 or 8 miles overnight... Since day 1
�
Nov 14, 2013
araxara Minimum Cruise Speed is Now 17 mph
I notice that the minimal cruise control speed in V5.6 is now 17mph � Previously it was 20mph. Also, if you are going 17mph and press the cruise control stalk down, the cruise control is turned off � previously if would just stay at 20mph.
�
Nov 14, 2013
AlMc Blue girl: Long time no talk! My experience is so different than many of the people here regarding 5.6. With 4.5 I lost between 6-10 miles overnight (12 hour period). With 5.6 I am down to 1-2. Not sure why there is such a difference. Since your 'Location' indicates Florida I would assume you are still in the 50-60 degree range at night?�
Nov 14, 2013
Todd Burch All, we went through this very same stuff last year when it got cold.
If your car is parked in cold conditions (near freezing and above), you may see a drop of 7-9 miles rated overnight. But that it primarily because the pack has been cold soaked, so the apparent SOC (state of charge) as seen by Tesla's algorithms is lower. The vast majority of that is not real range loss. As you drive and the pack warms up, some of it comes back.
Remember the wonderful Broder incident? He came out to a cold car, panicked at the range loss, and turned on the climate control to heat up the pack and get range back. That was his major mistake. You don't turn on the heater and expect it to add energy to the pack (Duh)! He should have just started driving, and as the pack warmed up, some of the apparent range would have returned. I think many of you are seeing the same effect.
I've repeated it in several threads now. A good tesla source (Walter Frank) has indicated that the car does not actively heat the pack while parked unless it's REALLY cold (sub 20�F?)
Speculation: In other 5.6 news, I called yesterday and Ownership said they're still pushing 5.6, but obviously there's little evidence of that here. I suspect they're implementing some rolling fixes and will send an updated build to the remaining folks...then go back and push the updated build to those who already have 5.6. Again, just my hunch.�
Nov 14, 2013
GDH Couple of issue that I have had in 24 hours.
Charge port not releasing charger
Tilt mirrors not tilting
Door handles not presenting
No beep with parking sensors
Car rolls forward and backwards at a stop (creep is off)
Since I have only had the car for 24 hours some of these things might be normal but the charge port not releasing is a concern.
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Thanks Todd, I have not seen those posts but I will not worry about it at this point. Tesla said if I was losing more than 20 miles overnight that that would be an issue.�
Nov 14, 2013
Todd Burch Charge port: car must be unlocked to release cable. Ensure the car senses your FOB before attempting to unplug.
Tilt mirrors: put car in reverse to set the tilt positions.
Door handles not presenting: ensure the option is on in the settings. Also, if the car hasn't seen the fob for 24+ hrs, you have to unlock manually using the fob.
Car rolling forward and backward at a stop (creep off): this is expected behavior, is it not?�
Nov 14, 2013
Benjamin Brooks My 8 mile average range loss in a 12 hour overnight span is all in a 60+ degree F garage.
So it's not a battery cold soak issue... even with 5.6 my car is consuming unreasonable amount of idle power (200-250W). I'll give it one more week to see if I can ever get sleep mode to work, then contact Tesla if not.
�
Nov 14, 2013
GDH
Shouldn't the mirrors simply tilt as soon as the car is put in reverse?, I was not told I had to do anything else than put the car in reverse.
Car rolling, not sure my Volvo did not roll when it was in drive....that might be a Tesla thing.....still new to the car!
All else I get.�
Nov 14, 2013
Todd Burch Yes, THAT is unusual. Have you tried pulling the touchscreen fuse (Fuse 51), letting it sit without a fuse for about 10 minutes (let all capacitors drain), then replacing the fuse? Just a suggestion.
Also, I wouldn't wait a week if I were you. Call Tesla tomorrow, and ask them to pull the logs. If there's a bug in 5.6 that's keeping your car from proper sleep, Tesla will want to find out ASAP. That way I get the fixes in my build when they finally push me 5.6 in, say....2015?!?
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Yes, they tilt when you put the car in reverse. But the factory default position is the same as the normal mirror position. No reverse position is set until you explicitly put the car in reverse and adjust the mirrors while in reverse.
RE the car rolling: pretend you're in a manual transmission car, which behaves exactly the same way. If you don't like that, turn creep on.�
Nov 14, 2013
GDH Ok got it, thanks!.....you've been very helpful!�
Nov 14, 2013
Todd Burch No problem. This site is a gold mine. Spend some time going through it and you will learn a ridiculous amount about the car. Congrats!�
Nov 14, 2013
Kraken You might also have to save the driver profile after setting them.�
Nov 14, 2013
NigelM Only really relevant to loaner cars: when the speed limiter is set on to 80mph, the cruise control won't go above 73mph; push it a couple of times and it turns itself off.�
Nov 14, 2013
Btrflyl8e Hi! We've only seen temps that low the last few nights. Usually it doesn't get below low 70's at night. I don't pay much attention to overnight losses anymore, so I'll start tracking it just to see if anything changes with the weather. I've become so used to driving electric now all range anxiety is gone. I just plug in when I get home, unplug and go in the morning without looking, really. I sort of checked it the first couple of days after getting 5.6 and was still losing about the same, though.
My lifetime avg wh/mi is 315, which seems pretty good to me so that's what I pay most attention to!�
Nov 14, 2013
apacheguy So just to clarify, TM has halted the rollout until an updated build is available (1.45.xx)? Or are they actively pushing 1.45.45 OTA and will also be releasing minor bug fixes at some future time? If the latter, I would be very surprised as there is essentially no evidence of OTA updates within the past several days. If the former, I would find myself very frustrated. The deadline was several months ago for this update and, at this point, I just want the update no matter what.�
Nov 15, 2013
polyphase I learned last night that's not true. It was 37 deg. F. When I got into my car and within a minute of driving a "Battery is heating" notice popped up below the speedo. The fine print said something about normal power returning once battery is warm. The power dotted lines showed power cropped to about 75% and regen cropped to 25% of max.
I have FW 5.6.�
Nov 15, 2013
NigelM Actually, its not that big of a deal if you live in a warm climate. The only noticeable UI change is the map orientation and the only big advantage is the energy saving mode (aka sleep) so unless you have circumstances to worry about vampire drain there's no reason to feel frustrated.
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I'm not sure I'd agree. All the test drive cars have v5.6 and it wouldn't make sense for Tesla to be putting buggy software in front of potential customers; also there seems to be very few bugs at all aside from the odd reboot after install.�
Nov 15, 2013
mnx He was talking about the pack being heated while the car is not being driven.�
Nov 15, 2013
Todd Burch Correct. The pack *absolutely* actively heats up when you start driving--but while parked, there is no active heating unless it's really cold (I think <20degF was the number, but it might be even colder). And I suspect when it's really cold, it only heats up enough to stay in a temperature range to prevent damage to the pack.
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No. I was speculating based on the fact that we've seen virtually no OTA update reports here in the last week or so, whereas last week we saw many. I was just guessing that they found some issues (perhaps not with all cars) that they may be correcting before pushing to the rest of the folks still on 4.5.
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I think perhaps it's not an issue with all cars. For instance, it seems like there are a lot of 60 owners that think their cars aren't sleeping very soundly. It may not be a critical issue, so existing cars--perhaps 85s, for instance--wouldn't be of concern. Just thinking they're putting some fixes into a minor build before pushing out to additional cars.�
Nov 15, 2013
GDH Only lost 4 miles and my car has been sitting since 6pm not plugged in and it was chilly last night!�
Nov 15, 2013
bosgig Has anyone else noticed that the magnitude of deceleration from the regen when initially taking your foot off the pedal doesn't seem as aggressive with 5.6? Trying to figure out if this is my imagination or not. Sure feels like it's been reduced by 25% or so, although the magnitude of energy recapture in the display wouldn't suggest it.�
Nov 15, 2013
rlang59 From what I have been seeing it seems as those of us with 60s are getting the brunt of the bugs on this release.�
Nov 15, 2013
mnx I wonder if they have beta testers with the 60kWh battery... Of the few that have identified themselves on the forum (that I remember), they are early (sig) customers with the 85kWh battery.�
Nov 15, 2013
paco3791 Took my Car into the Service Center yesterday to get some things looked at, see this thread http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10398-Model-S-Technical-Mechanical-Issues?p=497223&viewfull=1#post497223, and they gave me 5.6 update at the same time! Note that I am a S60 driver and though a long time TMC member I've only had my car for about a month.�
Nov 15, 2013
NigelM "brunt of the bugs" sounds like a lot; got any specifics? The only thing I have really been noticing in this thread is comments on the range calculations which seem to be primarily from 60s rather than 85s. Hard to see how bugs could impact based on battery pack size but it would be useful to add them to the bug tracker wiki if you have more.�
Nov 15, 2013
apacheguy Well, it is a big deal for those of us who feel that our car shouldn't waste a megawatt of power per year sitting in the garage. I've been a big proponent of sleep mode and have been waiting for over 1 year for a fix. So I would actually disagree that there is no reason to feel frustrated when there is a fix available and TM continues to push back the deadline.�
Nov 15, 2013
montgom626
I agree with your concerns.�
Nov 15, 2013
rlang59 I posted my issues up thread a bit. Sleep mode doesn't work to save range at all, I actually seem to lose more range with it on. If I have it enabled when the car comes out of it the Bluetooth, WiFi, and voice commands don't work and it takes multiple reboots to get them to work right. The passenger door response seems slower too, and the only thing that has changed with all of this is the 5.6 update. Personally I think there are some bugs and that the release should be fixed before rolling it out to anyone else. Of course there are those that seem to disagree with that opinion.
For the time being I have just turned off sleep mode so that the car is livable. When I have time I will get it into the service center if another update hasn't been pushed out by then. In the meantime I have let them (and ownership) know about the bugs I have been seeing.�
Nov 15, 2013
AlMc What I find strange is that many people seem to be having problems while many others (like myself) have none. I am not an IT/computer person so my next comment may be quite naive....Is it possible that the 'bugs' people are seeing are the result of a problem during their download? I ask because if it were an overall problem in the 5.6 firmware shouldn't everyone have the same 'bug'?�
Nov 15, 2013
tzejohn I brought my car in for annual service yesterday, and when I got the car back, they had pushed on 5.6 (1.45.45).�
Nov 15, 2013
liuping Sometime subtle issues with the hardware show up after an update that changes functionality.
Since Sleep/wake cycling was not available for testing/QA when the car was made a module that has issues waking properly would not have been caught at that time.
I would take the car and have service check it out. If it consistently takes multiple reboots to get things working, the logs should have info that will help them track it down. Then they can either fix the hardware if it's a unique case, or modify the software to work with/around the hardware behavior if it's a common issue.�
Nov 15, 2013
NigelM 1 MW vampire drain would put a different slant on things. Just curious how you calculated that amount of loss?�
Nov 15, 2013
liuping At 320Wh/mile. 1MW would be about 8.65 miles loss a day, which was pretty common before sleep mode.
Remember, the vampire loss it there even when plugged in, you just don't see it as lost range, since they are replenished from shore power. But it's still wasted electricity.
To put that in perspective, my entire house (not counting the Volt) used less than 7MW last year.�
Nov 15, 2013
rlang59 Assuming that Tesla has followed very basic rules for field upgradeable software, if there was a problem with the download it would not do the update. With that said, in my case it was installed by service when I was getting my tires rotated. Also just because one some people are seeing the bug and others aren't doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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I plan to do that, but it's a matter of having the time to get there.�
Nov 15, 2013
efusco Just another data point with v5.6 Sleep feature.
Sleep seemed to be working OK for me, but it was a bit hit and miss. One time I would run inside a store for 5-10 min and come out to find the car sleeping and have to wait those few seconds to boot up. Other times it would sit a few hours and no sleep mode...but that was less frequent.
This week I'm away at a meeting with my car left at the airport. When I checked the charge after 24 hours away I'd only lost 2 miles and the app had the expected longer delay to connect. Today, 24 hours later, I'd lost about 6 miles and there was almost no connection delay, suggesting that the car did not sleep after I checked the charge level the day before...possibly.
I've been wondering if the app itself might be a factor for those not seeing sleep mode...could the app be frequently pinging the car preventing sleep?�
Nov 15, 2013
apacheguy Indeed. At 2.5-3 kw/day 4.5 losses total roughly 1 MW/year. Looking at my trip meter, the idle consumption accounts for ~15% of the total power used in my first year of ownership. For those that don't drive as many miles, that percentage could be 20-30%. I'd say that's significant and it's a big reason why I have been advocating for sleep mode.
That's an interesting theory. I wonder if you force kill the app upon exit if it would prevent the app from running in the background.�
Nov 15, 2013
zeron I think the app is certainly a factor, there was some discussion on this in the VisibleTesla thread.. if you keep making API requests, it keeps the car from going to sleep. The app should know not to make permanent updates if its going to prevent sleep mode, but you can try and manually kill it to prevent it from doing that (on Android, at least). Would be worth an investigation.�
Nov 15, 2013
brianman The cars are dreaming about being an 85 or having nightmares about being 40. They keep waking up in cold sweats either way.
Or maybe with the fob nearby they're constantly awake worrying that you plan to go trade them in for a P85++++ with track tuning, AWD, and ... hmm ... hovercraft mode.�
Nov 15, 2013
Todd Burch This is the best theory I've heard yet. Remember, the latest app update came out way before sleep mode even existed. So the app doesn't even know not to keep pinging the car! (I can't imagine it would ping the car when not an active app, but stranger things have happened). Maybe the Tesla app needs an update? Would be nice if a few of you 5.6ers who think you have sleep issues test this theory by killing your app (terminating it, not just closing it) on your phone and seeing if that fixes your Model S's insomnia.�
Nov 15, 2013
jomo25 I was going to try to get 5.6 pushed to me today since I had a doctor's appt very near the Scottsdale SvC. I had arranged with them to get it and they happily agreed. Unfortunately, I had a last minute appt. pop up precluding me from going there after the doctor's.
I'm waiting for a part replacement that should arrive in the next week or so. So, I'll probably get upgraded when I go in for that.�
Nov 15, 2013
GDH I love my car but now I am wanting an 85, all my bugs fixed themselves with Todd's help. Car is amazing!!!!�
Nov 15, 2013
GasDoc I dunno. I have 5.6 and use the app to wake up the car or start the heat prior to leaving home or work.
My car seems to go to sleep without problem despite my using the app a couple of times per day.�
Nov 15, 2013
araxara I was at the Scottsdale Service Center last week and got the 5.6 update. They told me it would take 2 hours or so. I asked them why it would take so long to upload, since I thought they did it by hooking the car up to their ethernet network. They told me that the update is still sent over the air. So you really don't need to physically be there for them to do the update. Maybe they can just start the update for you when you are in a good reception area.�
Nov 15, 2013
tomas easier yet just turn off mobile access in car to test.�
Nov 15, 2013
Todd Burch Another thing is that I suspect this is probably the biggest OTA update Tesla's sent out in awhile, if ever. The sleep functionality must touch so many subsystems--so much code--that it probably requires a lot of firmware and system files to be replaced.�
Nov 15, 2013
GasDoc I was at the Burlingame service center last week and asked them to push 5.6 to me while I took a P85+ for a test drive. Just having fun.
It took about 45 minutes and they needed to bring the car into the service center to do the update. This leads me to believe that was not over the air update�
Nov 15, 2013
jomo25 When I called to schedule it yesterday they said it would take about an hour.
Since I have a 60 I am interested to hear other reports of issues with the 60s in the meantime.�
Nov 15, 2013
Btrflyl8e I've had 5.6 for well over a week in my 60. No issues. It sleeps, wakes up quickly, all new features work... I thought I was still losing about 7 miles overnight, but I don't really pay attention. Last night I did check how many miles I had when it stopped charging, and when I checked this morning it was exactly the same.�
Nov 15, 2013
jomo25 Thanks for the update. Great to hear it's not all 60s. But disconcerting that some have such different experiences.�
Nov 15, 2013
SFOTurtle I have a 60 and have had no issues with any of the functionality. My rated range loss has decreased although there are some nights it's more than others even with roughly the same temperature. I am going to try killing my iPhone app at night to see if that helps at all. (By "killing," I think that means closing it down completely as opposed to minimizing it where it stays hidden and potentially running).�
Nov 15, 2013
AlMc Correct on the iphone. Close completely. Minimizing 'may' still ping the car periodically. I do have an 85 but my greater than 1 week experience with 5. x series is sleep mode only loses 1-2 miles in 12 hour period. To save phone battery I close all my apps completely every night so you may find closing the phone app may help with the vampire loss.�
Nov 15, 2013
Benjamin Brooks The SC updated my firmware to 5.8 today to address my car's sleep insomnia problems (actually brought it in for a different reason - a 12V battery warning).
Will let you know how well that goes�
Nov 15, 2013
ken830 5.8?
EDIT: N/M Just saw the other thread.�
Nov 15, 2013
islandbayy Update: No response as of today on my INCREASED range loss since going to 5.6 from 4.5
I proceeded to DISABLE sleep mode. Suprise, my losses went back down to about 10 miles/day, instead of 16-20 miles in a 6-12 hr period. Go figure @_@
I am going to call tomorrow (trying not to be a pest), and see if their is a solution, or if they can either downgrade me for now to 4.5 or upgrade me to 5.8�
Nov 15, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla About the app doing some constant pinging while in the background, atleast in Apple iOS, heavy activity (network traffic in particular) is discouraged.
iOS App Programming Guide: App States and Multitasking
I don't think the Tesla app's doing anything in the background other than go dormant. This is most probably not the reason for the continued vampire losses.�
Nov 15, 2013
Benjamin Brooks Yep, 5.8 fixed sleep mode for me (was broken in 5.6... I never had 5.0)�
Nov 16, 2013
dsmith2189 Before everyone leaves this thread for the v5.8 one I thought I would mention something I am seeing in v5.6
I Just got 5.6 the other day and when my car wakes up from sleep the center console Google map reverts back to the street map view.:frown: Before it went to sleep it was set to satellite view.:smile:
Has anyone else seen this?
Does 5.8 fix this?�
Nov 16, 2013
NigelM Mod Note: v5.8 has apparently started to roll-out, so a new thread has been created - Firmware-5-8�
Nov 16, 2013
Denarius Anyone else getting different numbers on the drivers console vs the charge screen in the morning? App shows the charge screen value.�
Nov 16, 2013
NigelM I think that's a first.�
Nov 16, 2013
ZBB Nope -- I posted about this last week... Seems to happen on a 100% charge -- see the pic:
�
Nov 16, 2013
apacheguy Check the screens Denarius posted. He was clearly not at 100% so it doesn't seem to be correlated with SOC. Did they upgrade the range calculation on one of the systems, but forget to translate it over to the other?�
Nov 16, 2013
NigelM Ah, I stand corrected. But at least I was right in not recalling it in this thread.
Link: Rated-Range-Comparison-thread�
Nov 16, 2013
bosgig Yes--I've noticed this, off and on. I just got 5.8 so I'll see if it fixes it.�
Nov 16, 2013
Denarius Interesting that my center console shows a lower value and your center console shows a higher value.�
Nov 16, 2013
brianman I think we're due for a conspiracy:
�
Nov 16, 2013
dsmith2189 nope: I got 5.8 earlier today. when the car woke up the map had reverted back to street map view not satellite view.:frown:
Note: my GPS was off by about 300 feet after the upgrade from 5.6 to 5.8. resolved itself after driving for about 5 minutes.�
Nov 16, 2013
bosgig Satellite view switches off automatically when the car enters night mode. I think that's probably the issue.�
Nov 16, 2013
NigelM Mod Note: just FYI, discussion on wifi connection problems under v5.6 has been started here - Not-able-to-connect-Tesla-s-Wifi-to-home-network�
Nov 16, 2013
ZBB I thought that was strange too...
FWIW, I kept the charge screen up when I started to drive... The 204 dropped as expected to 203, 202, etc. The dash stayed at 201 until they were synchronized again...�
Nov 16, 2013
Mayhemm Why would you need to save battery? Wouldn't your phone be charging overnight?
Are you "hypermiling" it over several days or something? :wink:�
Nov 17, 2013
AlMc �
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