Thứ Hai, 30 tháng 1, 2017

Will you buy the Roadster 3.0 battery upgrade? part 1

  • Sep 1, 2015
    josh-io
  • Sep 1, 2015
    ChadS
    I've already got over 200 miles of range. This upgrade might give me another 75 miles. If the Roadster was my only EV I might think about it; but given that I have a Model S that is more comfortable for long trips and charges much faster, no way.

    That is, until my battery dies. THEN I will want it, of course. Though my whole battery would likely have to die - if I can just replace a sheet for $4k rather than pay $29k for the upgrade, I would likely just replace the sheet.

    If there were other benefits (performance, warranty, less weight, etc) things might be different. But it sounds like all you get for your $29k is the extra miles. (I did send in email asking about other possible benefits and will update if I learn something surprising!).

    I will be more interested in the efficiency upgrades that I hope will still come some day.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    josh-io
    Same boat here. The ideal range on my 1.5 is 184 miles, which I can stretch to 200+ in normal driving. It also seems likely that the 3.0 upgrade will reduce the 0-60 time due to the heavier weight. I'd rather have a faster Roadster than one with longer range.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    nick
    Once the range is enough adding more is irrelevant.

    However that isn't the choice... once the battery dies you either pay the $29k or you put the Roadster in a shed.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    stevejust
    Amen. I'd even take a lighter Roadster with less range. But not a heavier Roadster with more range.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    xytor
    It would probably be wise to wait for the gigafactory to make batteries cheaper, right?
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    ChadS
    *crossing fingers*

    If the GF can make similar cells at 2/3 the price, and assuming roughly $5k is transportation and labor, then that could lower the price to $21k in, say, 2 years.

    That would indeed be better for those of us that can wait. Of course, just having cheaper batteries available (and are they really available if they are all allocated for S/X/III/powerwall production?) does not necessarily mean that Tesla will lower the price right away. They took almost 7 years to lower the original $36k price to replace the battery. It would be nice if they did though; especially if their intention is not to make money on this program.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    Nvbob
    We want to know more - warranty, consideration of existing battery warranty/replacement, cost of other options, etc.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    nick
    Not sure I agree... even if the cost goes down in 2 years, why would Tesla make the battery cheaper to buy?

    It is not like you can choose not to buy a battery or buy a battery from somewhere else, and you have already purchased the car so no pressure to compete with other new cars to win the sale.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    Sparrow
    My current pack has a fault(some kind of sensor issue) and needed to be replaced anyways. It was going to cost $5500 to replace with a refurbished pack so I will just put that money toward a 3.0 pack.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    ChadS
    I agree they don't HAVE to lower the price; in fact I pointed out they took a long time doing so this time.

    But I explained that they said they are not trying to make money on this; they are trying to keep the battery replacement costs down so that people are not afraid to buy Teslas. If they wanted to keep the prices up, they didn't have to lower it today.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    ecarfan
    I placed an order for the new 3.0 battery. My Ideal Range on a Standard charge is just 160. I drive a lot for my work. Will really appreciate the added range!
    It will be years before Tesla offers a less expensive Roadster battery, if ever. The new Roadster 3.0 battery certainly uses a different cell type than what the Gigafactory will produce for the S, X, and 3. So Gigafactory production will likely not result in a cheaper Roadster battery any time soon.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    hcsharp
    How do you want us to respond if we expect to eventually purchase the 3.0 upgrade, but don't anticipate doing it for at least a couple years? And like several people have said, there are a lot of unanswered questions so I can't say I have enough information to answer this poll right now.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    Bradleybang
    +1
    I voted "still thinking about it" but my thought mirrors hcsharp's
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    richkae
    My answer is yes - some time in the next 7 years.

    When there are more details on the weight, PEM improvements, warranty, and performance implications I will be able to nail down the timing.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    spaceballs
    I don't see option of "Already ordered battery upgrade". I just checked Yes instead.
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    Timothy
    I plan to wait and see what those who buy the battery say about it. How much extra weight is there and how does it affect handling? I get 190 miles in range mode at freeway speeds--and I only would like more miles about 4 times a year. Hmmm.... $30 grand for 4 times a year? Pretty expensive!!
    �
  • Sep 1, 2015
    nsxpert
    Do we think Tesla will ever stop making Roadster batteries?
    I'd love to have the 3.0 but realistically should wait about 5 or ...10?? years until my current pack is near the end.
    �
  • Sep 2, 2015
    gregd
    Checking "Still thinking about it"

    My pre-announcement criteria was, if based on price, under $20k automatic Yes; more than $40k automatic No. So, it's in the grey zone. Now, there are trips I don't consider taking, for lack of range to destination, that this would put be within range for; that's good. But I'd only do them infrequently, so why bother?

    I think my main motiviation for getting it would be to have the new battery (and warranty), on the most expensive part of the car. I generally keep my cars for 15+ years, and I got this one with 5 years already on it, so starting over with a new battery would be good.

    Speaking of which... How many do they expect to take it? At "2 to 3 per week" production, covering, say, 25% of the current fleet of cars would take something like 5 years to just make them all. If, 5 years from now, I could spring for the new battery, that might be the best option. And by then, they'd have any production bugs ironed out.
    �
  • Sep 2, 2015
    sethr
    Also checked "still thinking". This is not enough information for a decision, such as a: What batteries are these - is there a track record to give us an idea as to how they'll hold up vs. what we have now? Warranty on them? b: What about the aero, brake, bearing, tire upgrades? Included? Separate? How much? c: How long will this be available? d: How much weight added/effect on 0-60? e: The original info was they did a 340 mile run, with 20 miles left = 360 miles. But 35% over the original range of 245 = 330 miles - where did those extra 30 miles go?
    �
  • Sep 2, 2015
    Curt
    I'm in the "Still Thinking" group.

    I'll be waiting to see how my Battery Replacement Agreement impacts the price. My "no cost" year starts in November of this year, so I'll start making inquiries then.
    �
  • Sep 2, 2015
    ChadS
    a) Dunno what type, and doubt they will tell us. I asked about warranty, and will post here when I get an answer.
    b) That's all separate. No word on when it will be available, or how much it might be. (Tesla had to release the battery; there are cars that need one. The other stuff is optional so I'm sure it's way behind schedule).
    c) Another question I asked, and will answer here when I hear back.
    d) Another question I asked, and will answer here when I hear back.
    e) The 360 mile run included the new tires/wheels/brakes/aero changes that are part of the separate package we have no info on.

    I heard multiple people from inside Tesla say the Roadster 3.0 package would be a "compelling upgrade". I don't think the battery qualifies (it's not a surprising price, but not a compelling one either). I'm holding out hope that the "efficiency package" that is yet to come will have a compelling price; but while Tesla makes many things I really like, I have yet to see them price something in a "compelling" fashion.
    �
  • Sep 2, 2015
    jaanton
    My Roadster is now 5 years old and the CAC has started falling faster than earlier in its life. I can probably last with my battery for a couple more years, hitting that 7 year point. But I'm already feeling the pinch on range and it just seems like the pack runs hotter. When I'm low on remaining range, the cooling system comes on earlier and that saps the range even more.

    I would like to know more technical details; but really, I expect to buy this pack. In the end, it will extend the useful life of the car.
    �
  • Sep 2, 2015
    dsm363
    Is most of the cost the cells at this point or the labor since there are so few of these packs and I'd imagine mostly done by hand?
    �
  • Sep 3, 2015
    ChadS
    I got a call from Tesla today. As you can imagine, they don't have all the details in place yet, but they tried answering my questions as well as they could. Here is how they think things look so far (I did ask for permission to post this; they were OK as long as I noted that not everything is final):

    1. The new pack will include a 3-year warranty. They hope to have an additional extended warranty available for purchase, but they do not have details on that yet (including whether any sort of extended warranty will be available here in WA; we can't buy the other extended warranties)
    2. The PEM modifications are small, likely just doing something like allowing for higher voltages during charging. The piece they add will have a "small" warranty, but the rest of the PEM will not.
    3. The battery will be heavier, but the person I spoke with had not been told how much heavier.
    4. The heavier battery will not slow down the car, because the bigger battery will provide a little more power. It sounds like they should just about cancel each other out. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they made it work that way on purpose (though that is pure speculation)
    5. You are expected to turn in an old battery when you buy this new one. However, they give no credit based on condition, so it doesn't seem to matter what type of shape the battery is in. If you have to tow in the car with a non-working battery, that sounds fine. Richkae's idea (sell his good battery to somebody with a bad battery; then trade the bad battery in on a new one) might work. Of course I would have a long talk with the service center doing the work to make sure before counting on this!
    6. This is not a limited-time offer. Of course they can't guarantee they will offer the same deal forever, but they plan to offer this going forward. So if the timing isn't right to upgrade now, you can upgrade later.

    If you have a bad battery or need more miles now, it is great they are offering this. But for those of us that have good batteries and don't need more miles, waiting until you do need it seems like a reasonable course of action.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Tesla isn't saying, so I don't think anybody knows for sure. But I imagine that cells are the majority of the cost, though labor still a significant percentage on the Roadster packs.
    �
  • Sep 3, 2015
    AEdennis
    We're on the still thinking about it. CAC has dropped this year and it's going in for its second annual (since we owned it) next week. Range is still around 176 at Standard mode charge, haven't done a Range mode in a while, but that was close to 224 last time I remember doing one.

    Waiting for more range drop before jumping in to do the upgrade
    �
  • Sep 3, 2015
    ecarfan
    So after placing my order for the 3.0 battery I received an email from Tesla confirming my deposit. The From line in the email showed as "Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters".
    I showed the email to my spouse and she exclaimed "Only Tesla would call a $29K battery an 'accessory'. I think an accessory is a matching color belt for my shoes!"
    �
  • Sep 3, 2015
    Chickenlittle
    i still get 190 on standard charge. Have never had to range charge it. Seems no point to upgrade now. Would be more liberal if I needed to range charge it now since an upgraded battery available if it degrades the current pack
    �
  • Sep 3, 2015
    Vger
    I voted "No", but that really means "not now." There should have been a choice for "Later."

    My battery still has a CAC of 155.77 and gets 295 km (183 mi) on a standard charge. I now rarely drive it more than 100 km from home, so the need for more range is just not there. Our Model S's are the long-legged workhorses now...

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW, I wonder if someone (else) will buy one and set a new distance record. Seems like 500 miles would be doable with planning, patience and care.
    �
  • Sep 3, 2015
    dpeilow
    Ok you got more than I did. On this side of the pond they aren't saying anything because it seems they don't know. The currency conversion and where the work needs to be done are particularly of interest but they can't say. I was beginning to think this deposit page was a stalling tactic.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    WarpedOne
    Tesla said they can build 2 or 3 packs per week, that means about 100 - 150 packs per year.
    At such pace they would need more than 18 years to upgrade all roadsters produced. This is clearly a life-extending program for roadsters that actually need new battery i.e. have a dead ESS.
    Not having a replacement part is a bad omen for future growth and for what will happen with old S, X, E.
    If your ESS still works and you don't actually badly need the range, the upgrade was not meant for you.

    On the other hand, roadsters age and are still dropping on price. Investing 29k into something worth 50k is quite different from investing 29k into something worth 30k.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    smac
    As an S owner, but one with a keen interest in the Roadster (I'd love one, but it doesn't quite meet my needs). I have to think the S is slightly different. It is a car that right now has no rivals, but in a decades time it will. Whatever is on the market, will likely be better in every measurable way. You'll simply scrap the car and buy a replacement, and not worry about the battery.

    However I really don't think something like the Roadster will ever be seen again :(

    I'm sure Tesla's business strategy would love to see you in a Model R and forgetting the Roadster. No doubt it will be convertible and have a silly 0-60, but it will be aimed at a much broader market, and so be a lot heavier, which will likely lose a chunk of the "fun factor".

    With no direct rivals, spending any amount on the car to keep it on the road will seem a bit of a no brainer to some irrespective of it's market value. I guess now at least we know what this cost is! ;)
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    dpeilow
    There is also the fact that the car was essentially "the one" that started the electric revolution. You can argue about what came before but the mass market and more importantly the manufacturers didn't take them seriously. For that reason alone the Roadster is worth keeping running. One day Tesla will be looking to buy them back for their heritage collection.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    JRP3
    I don't think there is any correlation. S, X, and 3 are much higher production volume vehicles so ongoing support is more likely, and the pack chemistry is much more durable than the original Roadster chemistry. Of course what this shows is that even a low volume vehicle no longer in production can be upgraded in the future. I also expect that going forward as EV's become more mainstream and cell chemistry further improves there will be aftermarket options, allowing modifications which Tesla could never do as a manufacturer, i.e. putting in a pack with substantially less weight.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    smac
    edit: response was @depeilow

    Completely agree.

    TBH I am watching the used prices with interest. Once they bottom out, I could be sorely tempted. I have to stay though I'm still nervous over factory support, as well as the cost of that support. I can't help feel that is at least in part why the values haven't started to climb yet. . At $29k for a replacement pack this hasn't completely settled my worries. If it were $10k for the same size pack as shipped originally I'd be a lot more comfortable (though I appreciate this is maybe unrealistic)

    (Anyway getting way OT)
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    jeremyz
    I find the 3 year warranty to be quite disappointing.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    ecarfan
    I am okay with the 3.0 battery warranty (and I have placed my order for the battery). It's difficult for Tesla to have long term confidence in how the battery will perform given it will have cells that Tesla has never used before inside an older enclosure with likely some original parts (cabling, cooling components, etc.).
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    sethr
    From my perspective, that's another reason to be hesitant about the upgrade. But I'm in good shape for now with a CAC of 156. Hopefully this (or another) battery will be available indefinitely.

    I have an appointment to fix my TPMS (yet again) in a week, I plan to ask questions about 3.0 then.... Of course I'll post if I learn anything.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    Strib
    Wish I knew if/how Tesla would apply a 1.5 Battery Replacement Warranty toward the 3.0. Mine is scheduled to be replaced at no cost, but if there were an attractive accommodation I'd opt for the 3.0 and pay the $$.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    Nvbob
    I had similar questions concerning the Battery Replacement or the Battery Warranty so I emailed them the other day. I talked with Laura Chin at Tesla concerning the 3.0 Upgrade and she explained that if you have the Battery Replacement you could purchase the 3.0 for $6000 plus $1000 per year you have left. So, the way she explained it was if you are on year 5 of the 7 year Replacement warranty, it would cost $6000 plus $1000x2 or a total of $8000. She did not have any information on the three year Battery Warranty (but she would check for me).

    She also mentioned something about a Tire Upgrade option coming later this year. She had no other information other than knowing that it was coming. I asked if she would notify me when she had more info concerning both the Battery Warranty and the Tire Upgrade.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    dsm363
    My CAC is down to 146 but will wait on the upgrade too. Just a little pricey.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    Curt
    That would be an unbelievably good deal, since under the terms of the agreement, you pay $2000 per year you have left (for the 53kWh battery). Maybe she meant an additional $1000/year, so in your example it would be $3000x2 for a total of $12000.

    just guessing, like everyone else...
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    hcsharp
    My agreement says $1,000 per year that you have to pay if you opt for the replacement before year 7, and Tesla pays me $1,000 per year after year 7 up to 10 years.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    Vger
    Good additional info. Now I really wish I had gone for the battery replacement program, but not a biggie overall.

    I am more interested in the other 3.0 features, which my service manager assured me months ago could be ordered a la carte. Good to hear the tire upgrade (lower rolling resistance) is coming. Now it would be great to have more info on the aero bodywork bits.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    bonnie
    Ditto. And then you have to take it at year 10 or you lose it.

    It sounds like there was some confusion over Battery Replacement Option (which you & I have) and the extended Battery Warranty, since the terms seem to have both been used. Nvbob, do you know which one she was talking about?
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    hcsharp
    If this is true then I will definitely be purchasing the 3.0 battery upgrade. I might wait a year or two so I don't have to pay much more than 6k.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    ecarfan
    Wow, those of you have purchased the Battery Replacement plan can get the 3.0 battery at an excellent price!
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    gregd
    Ok, yeah, so this is interesting... With the new battery we get an additional 85 miles of range for $29k. To get to the target 400 miles, the rest of the upgrades (aero stuff, wheel bearings, tires) would need to cover the remaining 70-ish miles. My battery is at 147 CAC after 32.4k miles, so I'm thinking if I can get about half of the total mileage benefit for a lot less than $29k, that would be the smart way to go now. That's all I'd need to reach a few key destinations without stopping along the way. Then when the battery CAC drops a bunch more, go for the new battery.

    Any guesses what the other parts will cost?
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    Nvbob
    I verified (by repeating back to her) that it was $1000 per year.

    I asked about the Aero but she didn�t have any info on it (yet).

    At first we specifically talked about the Battery Replacement Option which is the $6000 plus $1000 per year to do the 3.0 Battery Upgrade.

    I then asked about the extended Battery Warranty (which I have - NOT the Battery Replacement Option) and she did not have any information on it. She is going to ask and pass any info back to me. I will then share it with the forum.

    When I was talking with Laura, it appeared (and she stated) that their team wasn�t given very much information on the other upgrades (aero, tires, brakes, bearings, etc). And any specific technical information on the Battery Upgrade they obtained through asking their superiors on behalf of the customers. Her team is a sales team and not at technical team.

    She did invite me to either email or call if there were any further questions.

    Hopefully this answers some of your questions.
    �
  • Sep 4, 2015
    bonnie
    Great news regarding the Battery Replacement Option. Thanks for asking about it. Like hcsharp, I'll wait til I'm closer to the 7 year mark. My battery is fine now.
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    VegasRoadster
    My battery is still in fine shape and I never drive my Roadster outside of Vegas, so $29k is just not worth it. For that amount additional, I might be able to trade in my Roadster Sport for a pre-owned P85+ Model S. (In fact, now that I think about it, maybe I will.)

    If the upgrade came with Supercharging and performance boosts, I'd think about it.
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    ViperDoc
    Right, and if it was battery replacement, does that mean if I wait until year 10, it is $6000 minus the $3000 I get for waiting 3 years past 7? That would be outstanding! And of course, if the price for the upgrade dropped over the next 6 years by over $3000, maybe they'd pay me to take it! :wink:
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    JRP3
    I hope no one is expecting to get 400 miles. Tesla couldn't do it on their car with all mods in place, and the statement was I believe "about" or "close to" 400 miles.
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    mgemmell
    I recently did my longest trips ever on a single charge in the Roadster (206 miles with 20 still left in the battery and including a climb from 200m up to 1200m and down to 650m on the way). The car has 40k miles on it and frankly my rear can't take a longer drive even if the battery can! :)

    I'd pay $30k for:
    1) Supercharging -> giving fast and easy road trips
    2) less weight -> giving greater acceleration
    3) more power -> giving greater acceleration
    4) liquid cooled PEM and/or motor -> giving better hot weather and hard driving performance

    I don't think I'll be buying this upgrade if all it does is increase battery capacity, and certainly not if it results in greater weight and no faster charging. Come to think of it, a 100% charge will take even longer if it goes from 45kWh to 70kWh :(

    Roadster is for fun. The model S is for road trips.
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    gregd
    The battery upgrade, by my math, should increase range from "245" to about 330. Still quite short of 400-ish in my book. We accept that these aren't precise or guaranteed numbers, but how much do we think just the non-battery upgrades would net? I recall another TMC member has done some considerable aero work on his roadster, with some impressive results. Tires, bearings, etc. would be on top of that. What does it all add up to?
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    ChadS
    Top-of-the-head, zero-research history (corrections and links welcome):

    0. At 2013 Teslive, Musk said that in 2014 Tesla would "circle back and do something nice for Roadster owners"
    1. Very late 2014, when asked about that promise, Musk says "400-mile" Roadster battery is coming, but delayed until Spring 2015. (I think he said "400" at first, but later said "near 400". I am pretty sure he just said "battery" at the time). A battery and/or 400 miles may have been mentioned earlier in the year, but I don't remember details.
    2. Tesla blog (Feb 2015) says in their first test, they made a 340-mile trip with a 20-mile buffer. That does meet 360, but of course is not an EPA number. Blog notes changes to battery, aero, and rolling resistance.
    3. When later asked (on an earnings call?) about the 400-mile battery, Musk says "it's more like 360".
    4. Tesla email (which I didn't save, so this is from memory) says battery plus wheel/tire/brake/aero improvements should net 40-50% improvement. I think this also said reservations could be made in Spring for Summer installation. On some call around this time, Musk said "safety validation" should be done by July, so he hopes for availability in August.
    5. Sep 1, Tesla releases battery that is slightly less than 35% more capacity, and heavier, but they claim will net 35% improvement
    6. So...future enhancements will get us another 5 to 15%?

    I would guess (pure speculation) the EPA highway rating of the new battery would be somewhere around 320; though 330 is probably possible on a reasonable-speed highway drive in good weather.

    The EPA numbers for the whole kit (if ever released; I don't think they have to) will probably be in the 340's - which is a FANTASTIC bump over my car's original 244, but no 400. But 360 miles is probably quite possible if you have all the updates and drive no more than 65mph (I hope, maybe you'd have to stick to 60mph) in good weather.

    Just my guess. We'll see. Maybe they won't even release the rest of the stuff. Or maybe it will be priced so high it won't matter except for just a couple of us.
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    Nvbob
    My thoughts exactly.

    Battery upgrade - $29k
    Aero, brakes, bearings, tires, etc. - ~$15k all together?

    So ~$45k to get ~360 mile range?

    We're saving for the M3. $45k will get us a nice one.

    Just my thoughts.
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    gregd
    $15k was my thought also. My hope was that it would net another 20% to 30% in mileage at normal freeway speeds, and that combo would be well worth it for me.

    The M3 is interesting from a tech perspective, but I already have a 200 mile range car...
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    Nvbob
    So do we (a ten year old Prius) and it will be ready to give to the kids by the time the M3 comes out.
    �
  • Sep 5, 2015
    ecarfan
    Obviously those who aren't working for Tesla on the Roadster 3.0 upgrade project can only speculate, as @ChadS has done, and his numbers seem possible but of course are just speculation (as he acknowledges).
    I have placed my order for the 3.0 battery and no other pieces of the total 3.0 upgrade, since they aren't available yet. It will be interesting to test just how far the 3.0 battery can go without any of the per 3.0 modifications. Then later, some of us can get the complete 3.0 package and see how far they can go. Then we will have a better idea. Patience...
    �
  • Sep 6, 2015
    wiztecy
    Note they did do under their 400 miles with the heater on during portions of the trip, so possibly the goal is still achievable.
    �
  • Sep 6, 2015
    ecarfan
    The 400 mile range will certainly be possible at a slightly slower speed. Note that Tesla's blog post about that Roadster 3.0 trip said: "On the highway, we set cruise control to stay right around the speed limit. " For that particular trip that would have been 65 mph. I suspect that at 60mph 400 miles of range would be easy on a flat road with no headwind. Of course, in the U.S. at least, no Roadster owner wants to go 60 mph on a freeway or open highway.
    Tesla stated that they ended that 340 mile trip with 20 of range remaining, and as @wiztecy noted and Tesla stated in their trip report, they used the heater for 40 mins. So the total range possible on that trip was likely around 370 miles, and the route included two sections with substantial elevation gains which would have imposed a range penalty.
    Also, an EPA test of a Roadster 3.0 could quite possibly result in a 400 mile range rating, or very close to it.
    At this point it appears to me that Tesla has likely met their goal of 400 miles of range for the 3.0 upgrade. Now they just need to make available all the components of the 3.0 package: the aero modifications, the improved wheel bearings, the parts to reduce brake drag, and tell us what tires they used! The last item seems like something they could have informed us about by now.
    �
  • Sep 6, 2015
    smorgasbord
    This is Tesla - you have to parse each word carefully. For instance, "right around the speed limit" - I bolded the operative word: 60 is "around" 65. Hwy 5 has some 70 MPH limit sections, but I wouldn't be surprised if they kept the speed at 60.

    As for the EPA, the EPA test has changed since Roadster was first sold (from 2-cycles back then to 5-cycles somewhere near 2012). The 245 EPA range of 2008 would not be the 2015 EPA range. Tesla itself believes it achieved a 2-cycle EPA range of 320 miles for Model S (85kWh, 2WD) back in 2012. But, the 5-cycle test resulted in only 265 miles. So, you need to multiply by about 0.83 to get the current EPA range rating. That means Roadster would have a current day EPA range of about 203 miles. Tesla says the new battery range is about 35% better, so that's an EPA range of 275 miles.

    If you think about the aerodynamic changes needed to bump overall efficiency by 10% just to get to 300 miles, you'll realize that it isn't just a new nose. They'll need to do something about the roll bar/rear window drop-off (which creates eddies) and the rear wing. Even the mirrors would have to change. So, what happens to rear visibility, compatibility with the hard top, etc.?

    So, the EPA rating for Roadster 3.0 will certainly be under 300 miles. Even if aerodynamic and wheel bearing changes come (and they'll cost extra $$), that will maybe get it to 300 miles. And 400 miles is a 25MPH non-practical possibility. Yeck.

    All in all, this is very disappointing for Roadster owners: more expensive, and less range than we were told by Elon. The only good thing is that Tesla isn't completely forgetting us.

    I'm sad.
    �
  • Sep 6, 2015
    ecarfan
    Plus the new wheel bearings, reduced brake drag, and new tires.
    �
  • Sep 6, 2015
    smac
    In the Elise the idea was not to create eddies, rather to create a low pressure area to help draw heat up and out the louvers above the engine, so it was probably a little superflous on the Roadster, and probably why the Detroit and Dodge EV designs opted for traditional slanting engine covers.

    I really can't see that being offered though, it would effectively need a whole new (and very expensive) rear CF clam to make it look right.
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    ItsNotAboutTheMoney
    I think that's a no. Eventual replacement is kind of obvious, the question seems really to be about whether this is what you've been waiting for.
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    ecarfan
    Bonnie has posted here Roadster 3.0 that according to a reliable source the 1.5 cars cannot be upgraded to the 3.0 battery.
    �
  • Sep 17, 2015
    mg012
    If you try to order the battery upgrade, it says for 2.0 an newer only.
    �
  • Sep 17, 2015
    moezilla
    I think just the opposite would be great as well. A 100 mile range Roadster weighing 500 pounds less would be fantastic. We do fine with the 68 mile range i3.
    But academic as we had a sudden change in housing situation and must pass on the recently acquired very orange 2.0 car to a new home at cost or put it in storage for at least two years.
    �
  • Sep 17, 2015
    ecarfan
    Yes it does now, but a week ago it did not state which Roadster versions could upgrade, it did not mention any versions so everyone assumed the 3.0 battery could be installed in any Roadster.
    �
  • Sep 17, 2015
    Chickenlittle
    Yes this has been mentioned several times in discussions you have participated in. I believe tesla thought that it would work in the 1.5 as well (at least the sales personnel). Nobody was attempting to deceive you and when realized deposit was returned. I guess we can try to locate the guilty party to punish them but I am sure the crime does not rise to that level
    �
  • Sep 26, 2015
    cswolfe
    Yes. Though I cannot contain my disappointment that my battery with 12,000 miles on it will get no more credit toward the 3.0 battery than somebody else's battery dead or near death. :/ But look at the website roadster order items. A vast majority are sold out, and if you ask when they will be in stock, they claim they have no idea. There is no ETA for roadster out of stock parts. So it's cute and all it's not a "limited time" offer for the 3.0 battery, but this is Tesla, and any assumption that if you wait it won't be one more item on the long list of "sold out" "No ETA" items "for sale, except not" for roadsters I believe is pretty brave. I figure put the 5K deposit down now, so if this is tesla schedule as usual (e.g., model x deposits) , I'll get the call that my battery is ready to install around 2+ years from now, allowing me to get more use out of my current battery. I'd put a winkie there, except for, well, I'm not kidding.
    �
  • Sep 27, 2015
    Botbldr45
    992 just went over 40,000, CAC around142, idea miles around 168-170, doesn't hold Preformance Mode very long after initial acceleration, PEM is running a little hotter than earlier in its life, every day driver, last range charge was a around 220. Still drives like it always did and wows the bystanders. I would like to get the upgrade but as long as I can make the Sedona to Scottsdale SC run I can't afford it. I hope this replacement option doesn't go away! I am sure I will need it in another 20K or so. I voted " still thinking about it"

    I just hope they let us know if they decide to discontinue it.
    �
  • Sep 28, 2015
    cswolfe
    I hope it does for everybody else, too. But quite honestly, that's the only reason I'm buying now. I don't want to go to the website one day, want to hit the button, see "out of stock," ask them for an ETA (which they won't post, because well, they don't on any other parts), and be told "no ETA" as I have been on several upgrades or parts I would get but now cannot.

    Would have preferred to have gotten it years from now, but for those who hold off, and it (or a better one) is available then, terrific. :)
    �
  • Sep 28, 2015
    spaceballs
  • Sep 28, 2015
    TOBASH
    I am considering this. I have asked my local service guy to ask about when the unit will be available if I sign today, AND what the warranty will be on this very expensive unit.

    If there is a crappy warranty there is no point, but if there is a 10 year or a lifetime replacement then this is the way to go.

    Best,

    T
    �
  • Sep 28, 2015
    ChadS
    I agree it would be a lot more interesting if it had an 8-year, unlimited-mile warranty like the Model S battery. But the warranty on the 3.0 Roadster battery is 3 years. There will also be a "small" warranty on the PEM modifications (just the piece that is modified, not the whole PEM).

    I was told they are "looking in to" offering an optional extended warranty.
    �
  • Sep 29, 2015
    TOBASH
    Well then, I shall wait until they are finished "Looking into" the extended warranty.... No sense jumping the gun.
    �
  • Feb 22, 2016
    stevejust
    Has anyone actually done the update yet? I tried looking through the 132 page thread and didn't see any reviews of the process.
    �
  • Feb 22, 2016
    dpeilow
    We only just got some photographic proof of its existence :)
    �
  • Feb 23, 2016
    stevejust
  • Feb 23, 2016
    supersnoop
  • Feb 24, 2016
    dpeilow
  • Feb 24, 2016
    ibcs
    In that same eBay listing you could see the sticker on the battery show 3.0 on the battery.
    �
  • Feb 24, 2016
    Rockster
    I want.
    �
    • Người đăng: vào lúc

    Không có nhận xét nào:

    Đăng nhận xét

    Đăng ký: Đăng Nhận xét (Atom)