May 6, 2008
doug I think it's sometimes interesting to see what the VIN can tell you about a car, particularly cars that are collector's items.
We've seen several Roadster VIN's:
1T9RE11A15P829M02 for drivable mule 2
SFZRE11B963E00001 for EP1
SFZRE11B063E00002 for EP2
SFZRE11B663E00005 for EP5
SFZRE11B773V00001 for VP1
SFZRE11B173V00009 for VP9
SFZRE11B873V00010 for VP10
SFZRE11BX73V00011 for VP11
SFZRE11B173V00012 for VP12
SFZRE11B373V00013 for VP13
SFZRE11B283900016 for VP16
SFZRE11B483900017 for VP17
SFZRE11B183F00001 for P1
SFZRE11B081F00003 for P2/VIN F003
SFZRE11B981F00002 for P3?/VIN F002
SFZRE11B681000005 for Signature 100, #5
SFZRE11B?81000009 for Signature 100, #9
5YJRE11B481000012 for Signature 100, #12
5YJRE11B681000013 for Signature 100, #13
5YJRE11B881000014 for Signature 100, #14
5YJRE11B181000016 for Signature 100, #16
5YJRE11B881000028 for Signature 100, #28
5YJRE11B981V00022 for VP22
5YJRE11B281V00024 for VP24
5YJRE11B681V00026 for VP26
5YJRE1A31A1000502 for US 2010MY Sport
SFZRE2B13A3000002 for EU 2010MY
SFZRE2B3XA3000001 for EU 2010MY Sport
SFZRE2B32A3000011 for EU 2010MY Sport
SFZRE2B30A3900017 for EU 2010MY Signature 250 Sport
SFZRE2B15A3000003 for EU 2010MY car - RWE promotion - has Signature plate
SFZRE2B34A3000026 for EU 2010MY Sport - has Signature plate
5YJRE1A38B1001194 for US 2011MY Sport
The following is adapted from here:
How to Decode a VIN
When decoded, the VIN tells the country and year of manufacture; make, model and serial number; assembly plant; and in some cases it even identifies equipment specifications.
The vehicle identification number is divided into four parts:
* World Manufacturer's Identification (WMI - three characters)
* Vehicle Description Section (VDS - five characters)
* The VIN Accuracy Check Digit
* Vehicle Identification Section (VIS - eight characters)
World Manufacturer�s Identification (WMI)
The first character in the WMI sequence represents the country where the vehicle was manufactured. The second character refers to the manufacturer. The characters can be either letters or numbers. The third character represents the vehicle type or manufacturing division.
I believe the S refers to the UK as in Lotus VIN's.
Vehicle Description Section (VDS) and Check Digit
The vehicle description section consists of five characters (the 4th to 8th characters) which identify everything from the body style, engine type, and braking system to model, series, restraint system, etc. The 9th character is a VIN accuracy check digit which verifies the previous VIN numbers. It is determined by carrying out a mathematical computation developed by the Department of Transportation (DOT). Anyone have an interpretation for RE11B?
Vehicle Identification Section (VIS)
The vehicle identification section includes the last eight characters in the VIN number. The numbers identify the model year (10th character) and the assembly plant for the vehicle (11th character). So VP12 is 2007, P1 is 2008. Lotus uses an H for Hethel. Not sure why Tesla uses a 3 (or why P2 and later have a 1 in this position).
The 12th to 17th characters are the actual serial number of the vehicle�these last 6 digits make the vehicle unique (think of DNA). It can also help to identify whether the vehicle was the first, the hundredth, or the last vehicle off the manufacturer�s assembly line. This is valuable information for collectors.
We can assume V is for Validation Prototype and F for Founders' Series. I'd guess they're using E for EP.
Does anyone have any insight to share?�
May 6, 2008
doug Elon in P1
VP12
VP24
![[?IMG]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3286/2990149696_6332cf872d.jpg)
�
![[?IMG]](http://www.ferdinand-motor.no/images/stories/albums/Tesla_Roadster/Tesla_VIN.jpg)
![[?IMG]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3286/2990149696_6332cf872d_b.jpg)
May 6, 2008
doug Lotus Esprit VIN codes for comparison:
�
May 7, 2008
pgwoosley There is quite a bit of information on the internet on VIN number formats. A few additional quick observations. Yes, S in the first space is for the UK, just as W is for Germany, J for Japan, K for Korea. The formats of the next two characters varies considerably. General Motors generally uses G in the second spot and a character for the division in the third spot. Ford Motor Company does not follow the same pattern.
There is not supposed to be an I or the letter O in the VIN. Note that for the year model code, numbers were used for a while, then letters, then numbers again.
There are spaces on the internet to decode VINs, but it probably is too soon for Tesla's information to be there.�
May 7, 2008
X-CEOsWife Way back when, Martin wrote a program to calculate the VIN number of a vehicle. I will see if I can distract him from his current "obsession" to comment on this issue.�
May 9, 2008
doug VIN's out of sequence
Apparently there is some precedence for producing cars with their VIN's out of sequence. Just one example I found online:
LOVEfords -* VIN Information - 1953-1959 Fords, 1958 and 1959 Mercurys, Edsels, and Lincolns
�
May 14, 2008
doug Apparently from VP10's VDS:
IMG_0141.JPG on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Picture seems to say:
2007 Tesla Roadster
Validation Prototype
VIN: SFZRE11B873V00010
Assembled
11 Mar, 2008
Hethel, UK�
Jun 25, 2009
doug 2010 model year car:
5YJRE1A31A1000502�
Jun 25, 2009
doug Interesting that the Euro spec cars have UK prefixes and their own VIN sequence.
SFZRE2B13A3000002
SFZRE2B3XA3000001 Sport�
Jun 25, 2009
Tdave I already have my VIN for my Roadster Sport. It's the same as the above except for the last 3 digits (and the check digit of course if different).�
Jun 26, 2009
Palpatine My is also the same with the last three digits at 553.�
Jun 26, 2009
doug Thanks. I had thought VIN502 was a Sport model, but didn't have confirmation. Maybe a "3" in digit 8 indicates it's a Sport model.�
Jun 26, 2009
Palpatine Mine has the "3" in digit 8 also.�
Sep 11, 2009
doug Euro-spec cars at the Munich store opening.
SFZRE2B32A3000011 Sport
SFZRE2B30A3900017 Signature 250 Sport
Curious what that 9 indicates.�
Sep 28, 2009
doug EU spec cars at the Frankfurt auto show.
SFZRE2B15A3000003 RWE promotional car
SFZRE2B34A3000026 Sport�
Sep 6, 2010
razorblade Here you can actually also decode Tesla vehicles : http://www.pronto-net.com/vin_app/vin.php
Tested with some VINs and seems pretty accurate.
This is result for EP1 :
VIN SFZRE11B963E00001
DECODED 2006 Tesla Roadster
Country UNITED KINGDOM
Make Tesla
Vehicle Type Passenger Car
Model Roadster
Check Digit 9
Model Year 2006
Assy. Plant Hethel, UK
Production Seq. Number E00001
Engine Type Electric Motor; 3-phase, 4-pole AC induction motor; 375 volts
Body Type 2 Door Convertible; Roadster
Trim Level Base; Sport
Restraint System Dual Air Bag; Seat Belts
Drive Line Type RWD
Vehicle Class Small Car
Fuel Type Electric
Manufacturer Tesla Motors Incorporated
Engine Code S�
Sep 7, 2010
mpt MINI E reported in as:
DECODED 2008 MINI Cooper
Country GERMANY
Make MINI
Vehicle Type Passenger Car
Model Cooper
Restraint System Dual Air Bag; Manual Belts; SRS-Dual Stage Advanced
Check Digit 9
Model Year 2008
Assy. Plant Oxford, Great Britain
Body Type 2 Door Hatchback
Engine Type L4, 1.6L
Trim Level S
Drive Line Type FWD
Vehicle Class Small Car
Fuel Type Gasoline
Manufacturer BMW-AG, Munich, Germany
Engine Code M
A hint at its former life before it went under the knife?�
Sep 7, 2010
doug Interesting. Not too much info yet on 2010MY (Roadster 2.0) cars, though, where the VIN actually indicates differences like Euro spec, Sport version, etc. Anyone see a Roadster 2.5 VIN yet?�
Sep 7, 2010
kgb I haven't taken delivery of my 2.5 yet, but I've been told my vin is as follows:
5YJRE1A38A1001078
It is a Tesla Roadster Sport 2.5. This VIN supports the theory that '3' in 8th digit = sport.
Interesting: The VIN decoder did not decode that the vehicle is "sport"�
Sep 7, 2010
doug Interesting. I would have thought they'd label the 2.5s as the 2011MY, but this indicates they're still using 2010.�
Oct 5, 2010
mattjs33 I think I can help. I also have an interest in the VINs of low volume, unusual and exotic cars.
By regualtion, a manufacturer that wishes to sell cars in the U.S. must submit VIN decoding information to the NHTSA. The following information comes from documents submitted by Tesla to the NHTSA, as found on the NHTSA website.
Digits 1-3, Manufacturer: 5YJ = Tesla
Digit 4, Car line: R = Roadster
Digit 5, Body type: E = convertible
Digit 6, Region: 1 = USA
Digit 7, Restraint system: For 2008, 1 = Type 2 seat belts and dual air bags
For 2010, A = Type 2 seat belts and dual air bags
Digit 8, Motor: For 2008, B = Tesla 56C
For 2010, 1 = Tesla M6B; 3 = Tesla M6S
Digit 9, Check digit: Variable according to formula
Digit 10, Model year: 8 = 2008; A = 2010
Digit 11, Plant of manufacture: 1 = Menlo Park, USA
Digit 12-17, Sequential production number
They additionally note that Founders' Series vehicles will have F in digit 12.
Therefore --
5YJRE11B = 2008 Roadster
5YJRE1A1 = 2010 Roadster
5YJRE1A3 = 2010 Roadster Sport
I would have thought so too. But as we know, Tesla has so far only VIN'ed cars as 2008's and 2010's. There are no 2009's; car #500 is a 2008 and car #501 is a 2010. By pattern, I would have expected the next VIN's to be 2012's. By regulation, however, a car cannot be offered for sale with a model year more than one New Year's day ahead of its actual calendar year. Since Roadster production has been said to be ending in 2011, I do not know how long Tesla will be able to continue using 2010 VINs. As we saw in the past, Tesla was using 2008 VINs clear into 2009 production. So it is anyone's guess as to when or whether any 2011 Tesla VINs will appear.�
Oct 6, 2010
mattjs33 But wait, there's more! ...
A while ago I found this thread and studied it closely. Using Doug's excellent first post in this thread and some other VIN data, I have built a collection of about 950 Tesla VINs that have records on CarFax. Some findings...
Early on, Tesla's WMI was SFZ (S representing England), to show that final assembly was done in England. Most early Teslas with VINs beginning with SFZ will have an 11th digit of 3, represneting the Hethel, UK plant of manufacture.
From Doug's first post in this thread, you can see that all of the EP VINs he has found use the SFZ/3E VIN format, E representing Evaluation Prototyope (I think that's what it stands for?). These cars are all 2006's.
For the Validation Prototypes, we see three different VIN formats, namely SFZ/3V, SFZ/39 and 5YJ/1V. Obviously the first two represent cars built in the UK, but why the different 12th digits I do not know. The U.S. built VP's have 1 in the plant (11th) digit and V in the 12th digit, presumably for Validation. The SFZ/3V cars are all 2007's and the SFZ/39 and 5YJ/1V cars are 2008's.
The UK-built EP's and VP's do not have records on CarFax, but U.S.-built VP's 21-33 do.
Now, the Founder's Series cars (I have found 27) are all 2008's, and carry their own unique VIN structure, but notice these cars are all UK-built cars (SFZ). However, only #F00001 carries the proper 3 in the plant (11th) digit to represent the Hethel plant. All the rest carry 1 in their 11th digits. Very strange!
For the Signature 100 Series cars (which can only be uniquely identified by their VIN with the last six digits), it is interesting to note that the first 11 cars' VINs start with SFZ, even though the plant digit represents Menlo Park, USA! From #000012 on all Teslas use 5YJ. I guess there was a lot of confusion early on as to which plant did the final assembly of these cars, due to the unique Lotus/Tesla arrangement?
Also very interesting, when I visited Tesla Chicago this summer, they had on display Founder's Series car #024, which has a VIN with a check (ninth) digit which should, by formula, be invalid! I checked it on CarFax, and it is registered this way. It is the only Tesla I have found that carries an error in its check digit!
For those who are curious, the highest Tesla VIN I have found on CarFax is #1026, a base model.�
Oct 6, 2010
mattjs33 But wait, there's still more...
The SAE will assign a World Manufacturer Identifier with a third digit ending in 9 if that manufacturer produces less than 500 cars in a model year. In 2004, Tesla was given 1T9 as its WMI. This was only used on the driveable mule car(s?). Apparently at some point it was assumed that Tesla would not be building more than 500 cars in a model year. However, at some point Tesla was given not only SFZ, but 5YJ, in an indication that Tesla's intent was to produce more than 500 cars in a model year.
This has happened before. In mid-2003 Lamborghini's WMI changed from ZA9 to ZHW, in anticipation of the much-higher-volume Gallardo entering production. So someone at Tesla or the SAE decided the change would be made. But isn't it interesting that Tesla's total production for its first model year (2008) ended sometime in 2009 at exactly 500 units? Was it to keep the "large manufacturer" status on its VINs?�
Oct 6, 2010
doug Thanks mattjs33. That's really helpful stuff.
I think the absence of 2009 model year had more to do with production delays and that early customers wanted a car from the first production year. The majority of those MY2008s were delivered if not produced in the 2009 calendar year. (There was a long delay after the delivery of Elon's F00001.) Similarly marketing cars were given VP VINs so as to not eat up production VINs for customers that wanted a low number in that first production year. However those marketing VPs were eventually sold. That with the addition of other special out of sequence VINs makes it difficult to know actual production order.�
Oct 6, 2010
AndrewBissell My car has VIN SFZRE3B37A300222. It's a 2010 European Signature Edition.
Thanks to Mattjs above I now interpret this as:
SFZ - my car was built at Hethel in the UK, so it seems they are still using SFZ as the Tesla manufacturer string for UK built cars.
RE - Roadster Convertible
3 - region code, presumably Europe
B - some other kind of restraint system - what type?
3 - Motor type M6S - is this the Sport motor? If so it's interesting as I bought my car ostensibly as a non-Sport (but the VDS says its is a Sport!)
7 - Check digit
A - 2010
3 - Built at Hethel - correct!
000222 - EU Signature 222 - check�
Oct 6, 2010
doug Supposedly the drivetrain, including the battery pack, represent the majority of the value of the car. So when that is installed in Menlo Park, the car is arguably of US manufacture even though the body is still made in the UK. For EU cars, everything is put together in Hethel, thus the UK manufacturer string.�
Oct 6, 2010
mattjs33 Andrew, your motor digit of 3 is interesting. It is likely that EU-spec cars have a different coding for the motor type. Or maybe you have a sleeper base model! Is the motor type labelled somewhere in the motor compartment?
I also wonder, is your car equipped with dual air bags?
Frequently there are different coding systems in use between EU and U.S. spec cars from one manufacturer, so this is interesting to see.�
Oct 6, 2010
Doug_G Nope. Under NAFTA rules it is USA built if more than 50% of the value is added in the USA. But Canada charges import duty because it does not meet that target. It is one of the reasons why the car is slightly more expensive here.�
Oct 7, 2010
Jaff To be honest Doug, this is one of the issues we Canadians should be addressing with our politicians...to me, NAFTA be damned...all imported EV's should be exempt from import duty until we reach some sort of critical mass (say market penetration of at least 5-7%...more EV's & less ICE vehicles will result in a less smoggy Ontario...it is probably Ontario that should lead the charge on this as we have the most traffic congestion thus smog...we would benefit most from EV's being more accesible from an economic standpoint...(imo)
Sorry for going off topic folks. :redface::biggrin:�
Oct 10, 2010
ChargeIt! SFZRE2B3xA3000xxx spotted in GB with GB plates, but destined for DK. Model: 2.5
So, what's the "2" versus "3" for Region Code ?�
Oct 13, 2010
mattjs33 Is DK Denmark? Maybe it has to do with LHD/RHD? Just a guess.�
Oct 13, 2010
ChargeIt! Yes, DK = Denmark (sorry), and yes, it was a LHD (what we drive here in the US and what they drive in DK). British plates were probably temporary.
What do you Central Europeans show for Region Code versus GB ?�
Dec 1, 2010
mattjs33 Anybody seen a 2011 VIN yet? Maybe Zack's car will be the first?�
Dec 31, 2010
TEG Was this the total of 2006 & 2007 production? :
00000000011111111
12345678901234567
SFZ - Tesla manufacturer string for Hethel, UK built cars
SFZRE - Roadster Convertible=RE
SFZRE1 - region code, 1=USA (2 or 3=Europe, 6=Canada, 8=Hong Kong)
SFZRE11 - restraint system type 1
SFZRE11B - Motor type B (Tesla 56C)
SFZRE11B? - Check digit
SFZRE11B?6 - 6=2006, 7=2007
SFZRE11B?63 - Factory - 3=Hethel, UK
SFZRE11B?63E - Engineering/Eval-Prototype, V=Validation-Prorotype
_______2006_______
SFZRE11B963E00001 EP1 Obsidian Black / Black
SFZRE11B063E00002 EP2 Radiant Red (repaint from "Chili Red")
SFZRE11B263E00003 EP3 Glacier Blue?
SFZRE11B463E00004 EP4 Very Orange
SFZRE11B663E00005 EP5 Brilliant Yellow
SFZRE11B863E00006 EP6 Non standard "Nightfall" dark blue (repaint?)
SFZRE11BX63E00007 EP7
SFZRE11B163E00008 EP8
SFZRE11B363E00009 EP9
SFZRE11BX63E00010 EP10 (Thunder Gray?)
_______2007_______
SFZRE11B773V00001 VP1 Signature Green
SFZRE11B973V00002 VP2
SFZRE11B073V00003 VP3 Racing Green / black
SFZRE11B273V00004 VP4 Arctic White / black
SFZRE11B473V00005 VP5 Jet Black / black
SFZRE11B673V00006 VP6
SFZRE11B873V00007 VP7
SFZRE11BX73V00008 VP8
SFZRE11B173V00009 VP9 Electric Blue / black
SFZRE11B873V00010 VP10 Sterling Silver / black
SFZRE11BX73V00011 VP11 Thunder Gray / microfiber
SFZRE11B173V00012 VP12 Black / saddle
SFZRE11B373V00013 VP13 Very Orange�
Feb 4, 2011
mattjs33 Thanks to TEG, we now know that the fourth digit of 6 indicates a Canadian market Tesla. Thus, 5YJRE6A1 = Canadian Roadster base model, 5YJRE6A3 = Canadian Roadster Sport.
By my research, there are at least 33 Teslas in Canada. They are numbered concurrently with the U.S. versions.�
Feb 4, 2011
Doug_G Makes sense that they'd have a different encoding for Canada, since there are things about the vehicle that are unique, such as daytime running lights and the immobilizer. Also that decoding matches my VIN.
That matches up with what I heard a few weeks ago, which was 32.�
Feb 4, 2011
TEG About half are sport models...�
Mar 7, 2011
bonnie I have a 2011 VIN: I took delivery on Feb 8th in Menlo Park of a Roadster Sport #1194, VIN 5YJRE1A38B1001194. Date of manufacture is January 1, 2011 (big grin).�
Mar 7, 2011
vfx Hey Bonnie,
Is it gold colored?
�
Mar 7, 2011
doug So I wonder which was the first with a 2011 VIN.
VFX, your car had an '08 VIN, correct?�
Mar 7, 2011
TEG Yes, I think his was the last 2008...�
Mar 7, 2011
TEG 1192 and 1193 are 2011s.
I think they may skip some when switching model years (leave a gap in case you need it later?), so you might have to go back a ways further to find the last of the 2010s...�
Mar 8, 2011
bonnie It SHOULD be, considering ...�
Mar 8, 2011
mattjs33 Thanks for sharing your VIN Bonnie!
TEG alerted me to this; So I did some more research today.
As of right now there are eleven 2011 Tesla Roadsters with records on CarFax. The last 2010 is #1169. The first 2011 is #1170. So they are going pretty much sequentially. Like TEG says, I've seen other makes where they skip, and some others actually overlap at model year changes. I have not yet found any Canadian 2011's.�
Mar 8, 2011
vfx Yeah I'm the last 08' with VIN 500. The first 2010 with all the interior cost cutting would be #501 (I was told there would be NO skipping) . The next car I know of is the Dr with #516 and he received his about a month after me as Tesla said they were backordered on a single part.
Good question on what VIN is the first 2011. Don't most makers start delivering a given year in the prior September?�
Mar 8, 2011
vfx We have new one similar here in LA (with CF top) It is gorgeous.�
Mar 8, 2011
mattjs33 There's a common misconception that model years start on a certain date. A manufacturer can pretty much start a new model year whenever they want, provided it's not more than one New Year's day ahead of the calendar year. Thus there were 2012 Lexus LFAs delivered in February. Ford began shipping the 1997 F150's on Jan. 2, 1996, which means a lot of them have 1995 production dates. In the U.S., the vehicle's model year is the regulations for that year that it's built to.�
Mar 8, 2011
bonnie I understand that manufacturers may start a new model year much earlier. But I ordered my Roadster on 11/18, and the sales contract said it would be a 2010 model. Date of manufacture on the paperwork is January 1, 2011 - and the car has a 2011 VIN. So while they may play with the date, in this case, it looks like that window was pretty small.�
Jun 9, 2011
S-2000 Roadster I wonder how much of the "greater profit margin" on the non-U.S. Roadsters is purely due to not shipping the glider a third of the way across the planet.�
Jun 9, 2011
markwj In Hong Kong, the base price of a roadster is ~US$134k + ~US$4k of 'location charge' (which I am told covers the shipping of the completed car UK->HK). So, still US$133k vs US$109k. Hong Kong is tax free, so that is not relevant.
I think Tesla are just charging whatever they can get away with in each market. It is completely up to them, as a public company their goal is to make money, but somewhat at odds with the company philosophy for being a catalyst for change and accelerating the adoption of EVs.�
Jun 9, 2011
TEG But they have to ship battery packs and drive-trains the other direction, right?
The pack and drive-train together weight about as much as the glider!�
Jun 9, 2011
markwj I guess it depends if they 'ship'. Sending in quantity by sea is a tiny fraction of the cost of airfreight. Volume of the battery packs is also significantly less (and for sea freight, it is volume that matters).�
Jun 9, 2011
vfx Size and fragility might be in play here too.
It's been said before that air freight is costing Tesla near sea freight rates.�
Jun 10, 2011
doug That's an over estimate isn't it? Curb weight of the Roadster is about 2700 lbs. Battery pack is about 900, motor 70.
At any rate, back when battery pack assembly was moved from Thailand to San Carlos it was suggested the main reason was to cut the shipping time (high value component sitting on a slow boat). For the same reason, battery assembly was to also be set up somewhere in Europe (probably UK) for EU cars. So if they went through with that plan (granted from back in 2008), they aren't having to ship battery packs across the Atlantic. I suspect being able to assemble a complete car in the same region of the world does have some cost advantage.�
Jun 10, 2011
TEG Yes, I know it is a little less, but my point was it is a substantial amount of material to send the other way (assuming it would come from California).
Also, along with the 900+ lbs for the pack + 70 or so for the motor, you also have PEM, transaxle, etc.
For the sake of argument, perhaps 1600 for the bare glider vs 1100 for pack+drivetrain?
Also my point was just that there is some remaining international shipping expense even if you only deliver Roadsters on the continent where the 'gliders' are made.�
Jun 10, 2011
TEG And yes, if they aren't sending more gilders to North America, one would hope as much of the rest can be sourced 'locally' (such a battery pack) rather than coming all the way from California. I don't know the answer. I sortof assumed they were coming from California, but hopefully not.
The cells themselves are likely still coming from Asia regardless.�
Jun 11, 2011
Eberhard When i picked up my roadster in Hethel, the told me, they ship drivetrain and pack in containers by sea because of weight.�
Jun 11, 2011
smorgasbord According to Tesla's web site, the battery pack is closer 990 lbs (wikipedia says 992) and the motor is 115 lbs (wikipedia says 70). I don't know what the final drive converter weighs.�
Jun 11, 2011
doug Yeah, I understood that. Good point.
I guess they never went through with that EU pack assembly plan then. Ultimately it probably didn't make sense given the Roadster's volume.
I managed to dig up what what siry had to say back then. (He was Tesla head of marketing at the time.)
�
Jun 20, 2011
markwj Hong Kong base 2.5 roadster, RHD, delivered to Hong Kong in the spring of 2011 and built completely in UK.
VIN is SFZRE8B15B3000569.
Italian base 2.5 roadster, LHD, in the process of being delivered to Italy in the Spring/Summer of 2011 and built completely in UK.
VIN is SFZRE2B15B3000570.
TEG decoded the HK VIN as:
SFZRE8B15B3000569
00000000011111111
12345678901234567
SFZ - Tesla manufacturer string for Hethel, UK built cars
SFZRE - Roadster Convertible=RE
SFZRE8 - region code, 8=Hong Kong (1=USA, 2 or 3=Europe, 6=Canada)
SFZRE8B - restraint system type B (not sure what B signifies as I am used to seeing a "1" here. Could this be used to indicated RHD?)
SFZRE8B1 - Motor type 1 (I am not sure what type of motor "1" signifies. Did they use this code to indicate RHD vs LHD?)
SFZRE8B1? - Check digit
SFZRE8B1?B - B=2011 model
SFZRE8B1?B3 - Factory - 3=Hethel, UK
SFZRE8B15B3000569 - UK produced car #569.
Clearly, the only difference (apart from sequence) is the 6th character - "8" for the HK car and "2" for the Italian car.
Looking through other bits of this thread, I can see:
1 USA (LHD)
2 includes Italy (LHD), Denmark (LHD)
6 Canada (LHD)
8 includes Hong Kong (RHD)
It would be interesting to see what a UK car has in that 6th character. Also, Japan?
[ edit: corrected to fix Denmark code is 2 not 3 ]�
Jun 21, 2011
AndrewBissell UK - 3 (see my post earlier this thread)�
Jun 21, 2011
markwj Ok, so we have:
1 USA (LHD)
2 includes Italy (LHD), Denmark (LHD)
3 includes UK (RHD)
6 Canada (LHD)
8 includes Hong Kong (RHD)
Could it be that 2 is LHD Europe (UK) and 3 is RHD Europe?
[ doh: edit: just noticed I got the Denmark number wrong, so edited to correct ]�
Jun 22, 2011
Nik So we need LHD countries outside of USA & Canada, and other LHD countries in Europe to complete a set. Any Irish or Maltese Roadster drivers around.
What about Japan. Do they have their own code, or are they RoW(RHD) with Hong Kong?�
May 6, 2012
markwj Looking at this thread, the suggestion is that a "3" in the 8th digit would signify a sport, and a "1" would be a normal roadster.
In particular:
Decoding Tesla Roadster VINs
would seem to give us the ability to auto-identify a v1.5 car as a "B" in the 8th digit. The differentiation between base roadster and sport would also be nice.
This would be useful for OVMS. If we could auto-identify a v1.5 car, we can have one less thing for the user to worry about. Does anyone here know if this is reliable?
Regards, Mark.�
May 7, 2012
W.Petefish Digit 10, B = 2011�
May 7, 2012
doug Model year alone, digit 10, should be good enough to distinguish 1.5 from 2.x cars. All production Roadster 1.5s were Model Year 2008, meaning an 8 in that position. There may be some VPs out there with a 7 there for 2007. Roadster 2.x vehicles start at the 2010 Model Year, using an A in digit 10.
So once you've determined Roadster 2.x with and A, B, or C in the 10th digit, check if the 8th digit is a 1 or a 3 to distinguish standard from Sport, respectively.�
May 7, 2012
TEG Yes, as Doug said...
If digit 10 is a number then it is a 1.5
If digit 10 is a letter then it is a 2.x�
May 7, 2012
TEG The other way:
If position 8 is a 'B' then it is a 1.5
If position 8 is a '1' then it is a 2.x base
If position 8 is a '3' then it is a 2.x sport�
May 7, 2012
markwj Based on a sample of 3, we have:
v1.5 car: *******B*81******
v2.0 car: *******1*A3******
v2.5 car: *******1*B3******
All are non-sport.
For OVMS cars, I see 1, 3 or B in that 8th position. so perhaps best to use 3=Sport, and anything else non-sport and v1.5 car.
For OVMS cars, I see 8, A or B in that 10th position, so perhaps best to use A=2.0, B=2.5 and anything else 1.5.
The only one that _really_ matters is the v1.5 detection and I think digit 8 not 1 or 2 is the best for that. The rest is cosmetic.
Workable?�
May 7, 2012
TEG Re-itterating:
Digit 8 is motor type
Digit 8 is B for a v1.5
Digit 8 is 1 for a v2.x non-sport
Digit 8 is 3 for a v2.x sport
Digit 10 is 8 for 2008 model
Digit 10 is A for 2010 model
Digit 10 is B for 2011 model
Digit 10 is C for 2012 model
Digit 11 is the factory. I think 3=Hethel-UK, 1=MenloPark-CA-USA
There is no specific VIN digit to say if a v2.0 or v2.5�
May 8, 2012
markwj What is the cut-off for 2.5 vs 2.0?
William: you suggest it is the year 2011 cars (B in digit 10).
I thought the 2.5 cars were introduced mid way through 2010, but were these all labelled 2011 cars?
To avoid controversy with labeling someone's car incorrectly, maybe best to just differentiate between 1.x non-sport, 2.x sport and 2.x non-sport and forget about the variants within?�
May 8, 2012
dsm363 My car has an A in the 10th digit and is a 2.5.
That's probably the best way. There are a few cars that are '2.25s' with some features of the 2.5s but in a 2.0 shell.�
May 8, 2012
TEG If position 10 is an 8 then it is a 1.5
If position 10 is an A then it is a 2.0, '2.25' or 2.5 (can't tell just by any particular VIN digit)
If position 10 is a B then it is a 2.5�
May 8, 2012
markwj Thanks, TEG. I'll go with 1.x, 2.x non-sport and sport. Sounds like 2.0 vs 2.25 vs 2.5 is a can of worms.�
May 9, 2012
Doug_G Actually, 2.25's are 2.0's that have been upgraded to the 2.5 external shell appearance.
My car is the other way 'round - it's a late 2.0 that has some 2.5 features, like the seats and improved PEM. They still call it a 2.0.�
May 9, 2012
dsm363 Ah, I had that backwards. I knew there were some interval/bridge cars in there somewhere. I think Mark's decision to go with 1.x, 2.x non-sport and sport is probably the best.�
May 13, 2012
vfx Sometimes it was a sales technique. The store wanted to move 2.0s but had few takers with similarly priced 2.5s in the offerings. The 2.25 upgrade was offered (I think 4 free, not sure) and sometimes even done weeks after delivery. I would guess the VIN stayed the same.�
May 13, 2012
TEG Yes, the VIN on the 2.25s remained the same as it was when the car started out as a 2.0
I think we know #848 was a 2.0 converted to 2.25
The 'official' switchover to 2.5 started around #965
But #1000 seems to be a 2.0 that was made somewhat out of sequence.
Anyways, you basically have to look at the car - the VIN alone isn't going to tell you.�
Jul 15, 2012
brianman FYI, the check digit for this one is '3'.�
Oct 2, 2012
TEG ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/MfrMail/ORG3147.pdf
ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/MfrMail/ORG3746.pdf
ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/MfrMail/ORG4176.pdf
ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/MfrMail/ORG4869.pdf�
Oct 2, 2012
vfx
Not even a hint TEG?�
Oct 2, 2012
doug Why don't you just upload those as attachments?�
Mar 22, 2015
Rheazombi As for Regions... (Digit 6)
- Region: 1 = USA (LHD)
- Region: 2 = Europe (LHD) - including Italy, Denmark
- Region: 3 = Europe (RHD) - including UK
- Region: 6 = Canada (LHD)
- Region: 8 = Hong Kong (RHD)
Did anyone ever figure out what Region 4, 5, and 7 are?�
May 18, 2015
TEG I had written a script long ago to probe Carfax for valid roadster VINs to figure out which had been issued (for North America.)
I wrote a small tool to analyze my VIN list, and came up with these metrics for North America:
My list doesn't include Europe / Asia region coded VINs.
I also left off the early EP/VP cars made in UK (SFZ VINs).
Well, there is one exception... I happened across a used car listing for VIN 841 in region 4 being sold in Australia...
That is 5YJRE4A11A1000841
I think that most of the Roadsters that officially went to Australia came from the Europe/Asia VIN pool, so I am not sure why this one outlier seemed to show up. Possibly some sort of error/mistake.�
May 18, 2015
Doug_G So 43 Canadian Roadsters then. IIRC the number I heard was 44, so that is about right.
I'm pretty sure there were oddities here and there, like a European car that was imported to Canada and converted to replace a crashed car.�
May 19, 2015
TEG Added EP, VP and Founders':
Not sure why some VPs used "V" in the VIN, and some used "9" instead. Maybe the "9" versions were intended to be used in Europe?
With "Factory" (where drivetrain was installed, I guess):
I guess maybe the "9" VPs were the ones assembled in the UK instead of in Menlo Park.�
May 19, 2015
brianman @TEG - It seems you've got "Type" sorted alphabetically. Am I right in assuming that the chronological order (judging by VIN #s perhaps?) is really VP(9), VP(V), Founders, then Prod for 2008?�
May 19, 2015
TEG VP production was interspersed with other production.
Founders' came before regular production.
VPs:
SFZRE11B773V00001
SFZRE11B973V00002
SFZRE11B073V00003
SFZRE11B273V00004
SFZRE11B473V00005
SFZRE11B673V00006
SFZRE11B873V00007
SFZRE11BX73V00008
SFZRE11B173V00009
SFZRE11B873V00010
SFZRE11BX73V00011
SFZRE11B173V00012
SFZRE11B373V00013
SFZRE11B573V00014
SFZRE11B283900016
SFZRE11B483900017
SFZRE11B683900018
5YJRE11B981V00019
SFZRE11B483900020
5YJRE11B781V00021
5YJRE11B981V00022
5YJRE11B081V00023
5YJRE11B281V00024
5YJRE11B481V00025
5YJRE11B681V00026
5YJRE11B881V00027
5YJRE11BX81V00028
5YJRE11B181V00029
5YJRE11B881V00030
5YJRE11BX81V00031
5YJRE11B181V00032
5YJRE11B381V00033
SFZ=Hethel, UK
5YJ=Menlo Park, US
I guess I still don't understand why some VPs used a 9 instead of V.
It seems that the last 4 of the Hethel produced VPs switched to using 9.
Well it looks like the Hethel VPs used "V" in 2007, and "9" in 2008...
So maybe there was some new requirement for VIN coding enforced.
Here it is with the "Type" reverse alpha sorted:
�
May 20, 2015
Roadrunner13 @TEG, well now you got me curious, is mine pegged as Canadian or US in your report?
I imported one from US to Canada, so it's one of those oddball that will break your chart!�
May 20, 2015
supersnoop What's the sixth digit of your VIN?�
May 20, 2015
TEG My chart is purely based on original VIN. Cars (gray market) imported from USA to Canada will still show up as "intended for USA".
I think there are quite a few other Roadsters in Canada that didn't have that "6" in VIN position "6" to indicate that it was produced specifically for Canada.
VINs don't change after a car was produced. They only give some limited info about the car at the time of original production.
The same can be said for the year. That is model year. Not production year, or even delivery year.�
May 21, 2015
Roadrunner13 Of course, you're totally right, your analysis is based on the VIN number breakdown...not anything Carfax told you except its actual existence!
Reading the thread too fast, I had linked Carfax with your country breakdown...
My sixth digit is obviously a '1'!...:redface:�
Jun 2, 2015
TEG And your car was first registered 12/29/2010 in Naples, Florida with license plate "881YKC"
�
Jun 3, 2015
Roadrunner13 ...and of course, right again!
Finding the plate number is one thing, but having a picture supporting it...
TEG, you're the search wiz!
I had never seen this pic of my car.�
Jun 3, 2015
Doug_G LOL I thought I'd have a look at ExoticSpotter.com. Sure enough, found a couple of pics of my Roadster!�
Jun 5, 2015
Chillout Not sure if this was already shared here:
�
Jun 5, 2015
TEG Thanks for that!
I think perhaps people still called the "Pilot Production" (type 9) cars as "VPs".
Wishful thinking that they called out glider years for 2012 through 2016. (didn't happen.)
This chart seems Europe centric. I wished they called out the region codes for the Roadsters "assembled in US".
That digit 11 "plant code" stuff is interesting. Of all the VINs I know, the US assembled cars are "1", and the UK assembled cars are "3".
Did they ever make any Roadsters with plant code 2 ?�
Jun 17, 2015
warden_clyffe hmm, strange - my (european) roadster got on 10th. digit an A - that means 2010 - but was licensed 1st. in 2009 (?)
anyway, me new here - living in germany, happy model s 85 and roadster 2.0 - owner - hello to all other enthusiasts !�
Jun 17, 2015
TEG Tesla skipped 2009 Model Year because so many 2008 Model Year cars were delayed into calendar year 2009 delivery.
The automotive Model Year doesn't have to track exact Calendar year. I think it is more of an estimate of closest year when they plan to deliver most of those series of vehicles.�
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