Nov 1, 2015
Navyguy Hey,
New here but I have followed Tesla off an on for the last year or two. Finally seeing that Autopilot has finally been released (when I read that it was an upgrade for a later dates release it was a bit of a turn off. I had thought it would be like in a few years).
Well it's here and now I am thinking of getting one.
The top of the line is out of my price range and even the lower ones are up there. I am curious what people here are paying monthly and approximately their income if they have no kids and are single etc.
I have no kids, single. I make about 70K a year. Commission could make that to 80 some years. Not really likely for the remainder of this year or probably next.
I know interest rates dictate significant the price of the payments. but just looking for some baselines. is 70-80K too low? 120+? Thanks for the input.
Also the EV incentives, were those taken later. and you are still financing the listed price. it shows the price, then the lower price after EV incentives.�
Nov 1, 2015
Max* There is a thread here about people's incomes.
Someone was making $40k a year, but had a Tesla (and not retirement income, he commented about it in another thread).
Look at how much you spend monthly. Do you go to restaurants a lot? Movies? Would you give up a vacation for a car? Etc. It's all about properties. Do you live in a big house? Would you rather live somewhere cheaper and have a nicer car?
You can calculate monthly payments by using any online calculator. Estimate your down payment, APR and how long you want to finance for. Estimate $1000-$1500. Do you have that much extra cash monthly?
It's just a car, a depreciating asset. I would get a house before a Tesla. Then again some people do Uber to supplement their income. It's your priorities, only you can decide what you want.�
Nov 1, 2015
Navyguy I would not only give up my lack of taking vacations I never really do. even when I was in the Navy I didn't take leave much. I will give my left nut for this car haha. Yeah i was seeing alot ranging from 800+ for a lease, I hate that idea I drive alot and this may be my only car.
40K damn. prob AAA credit with no house or any other payments. I can make the payments per say. but it might be tight due to other obligations for the next year or two, I could wait a year. but man. who has patience lol and yeah house I could see. but then again I wouldn't buy a house. an investment without a family like a a wife and or a kid. A condo is fine with me.
My condo costs me about a 1K a month. its decent I am happy with it. 1K for this car. but then 3200 in pay plus 800 flat money for expenses a month and commission which is maybe right now about 300 a month. so prob could be done. but misc expenses maybe another 1K then I have to worry about repairs etc.
Does anyone here have less than an 800 dollar payment on this car? lease not leased? prefer to not lease a car. never have but always seems like a bad idea. unless you like to get a new car every 3 years and limit on driving it. etc.�
Nov 1, 2015
Soolim Do you need a full size sedan, now? If not, save your pennies and buy a M3 in cash soon (EM time):wink:�
Nov 1, 2015
Max* Ate you thinking of a base 70kwh model? With no down payment, you're looking at about $850 a month for a 84 month loan (the longest that I'm aware of)
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Do you drive a lot? Think total cost of ownership. Charging is about 4-5x cheaper than gas (in my area).�
Nov 1, 2015
Navyguy 84 months Ive been looking at 72 max so that would be wicked better. also Soolim, I kinda do. I actually had an M5 Before my current car until I got rear ended by some broad in a ford f250 who was texting and drivingI miss that hard to find car
Maybe the base, but maybe one step up. def autopilot and cold weather at a min upgrades (ohio) it can get cold.
That's the pic I took for insurance. Was still in the Navy with that. miss that car haha.
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Can't edit it, but never noticed hahaha you can see the Ford emblem on the ground must have fallen off when they towed it there lololol.
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How much does charging cost?�
Nov 1, 2015
Soolim Charging cost depends on your electricity rate. For me, my charging cost is about 20% of my gas cost. I think you can gauge it from there. I often said to my friends, with Tesla the more you drive the more you saved:biggrin:�
Nov 1, 2015
calisnow Please don't take the following as "holier than thou" - just answering your question to try to be helpful.
And please don't anyone chime in with the "Maybe it's worth the stretch for the OP, you can't put a price on his happiness." He asked specifically for input on his situation given his stated income level. No financial planner anywhere would tell him to buy a car equal to his yearly income.
It's like a cardiologist still trying to save for retirement buying a new Rolls Royce. I know a lot of broke, can't-retire doctors who blew their income on stupid crap when they were young.
To the OP - I make my living investing. So I think of money - always - in terms of what I will give up in the future if I consume a dollar now. You are giving up a ton of future dollars if you buy a car equal to your yearly income instead of investing that money. You're even better off in the long run investing that money in an overheated stock market headed for a crash (like we may have right now) - and leaving it there for 30 years - than you are spending it on consumption now.
So let me give you my advice - though I imagine you are a younger male who will not listen to me (I would not have listened if I was under 30 and single either).
Do not be a typical American and consume what you can't afford.
The self driving tech in the Tesla will be in Honda Civics five years from now. It is glittery and fascinating right now - but will not even be worth a mention in just a few years.
A Model S is not a Ferrari 355 - i.e. it is not a classic that will gain in value. It's a mass market production car (albeit a pricey one) that will be almost worthless in 10 years. Go look up what a 10 year old Mercedes S class with 200,000 miles on it is worth - it's not a pretty sight.
$70,000 now is easily several million $ by the time you retire.
The only counter situation I see is if you already must drive a ton of miles for work and you're spending money on gas anyway - and if you're willing to keep this puppy for two or three hundred thousand miles and at least 10 years to monetize the fuel savings to the point where they out-weigh the depreciation.
But if you aren't driving a ton and you like to trade cars frequently then sit tight and wait - for a 50,000 mile used autopilot Model S or a Model 3 at half the price a few years from now.
Life is long my friend - longer than you think. Your future self will thank your current self.
Financially, if you *must* blow money on a car equal to your yearly income I think you might be better off with a used Tesla roadster - they seem to have leveled off in price.�
Nov 1, 2015
2fast2 Since you're in snow country, I think a 70D would be preferred, if you could swing it. I know others will chime in that you don't need a D, but they probably don't live in Cleveland. Maybe 4 good snow tires on the base 70 would work for you.�
Nov 1, 2015
Soolim Most astute advice imo. I never buy car that I cannot afford to pay in cash.�
Nov 1, 2015
rdrcrmatt I put about 20k down and took a loan or 83k, 5 years, 1500 per month. I'm thinking about upgrading to an autopilot car.
Tesla does have good used cars for sale too.�
Nov 1, 2015
Modeler I'm sorry, but this is just crazy talk! I make five times as much in a year as the price of the model S I bought, and I almost cancelled my order cause I didn't think I truly could afford it. I know that everyone's spending is different, blah, blah, blah. But paying for a car as much as your annual income or more is a recipe for a disaster.�
Nov 1, 2015
sillydriver I hate to say it because I have always found it hard to defer gratification myself, but this^^^ is good financial advice. I am a 57 year old retired partner of a large Boston investment firm, so I am qualified to offer this opinion. But more than that, Tesla is currently advancing automotive technology the way Apple advances phones: if you can force yourself to wait, better stuff will come. In particular there will probably be a performance version of the Model 3 in not many years that will deliver a fantastic experience for good money: longer range and better self-driving that current buyers of P85Ds will ever have. In the mean while keep your powder dry by tiding yourself over with something that won't break the bank.�
Nov 1, 2015
calisnow This.�
Nov 1, 2015
Soolim +1. Let those who can afford lead the way in supporting Tesla at this time to produce the M3 for the masses.�
Nov 1, 2015
mmccord Buying an auto that costs your annual income is a terrible financial decision. That said, some people don't make it to 57, so saving for retirement could mean you never get to spend any of your hard earned money at all.
I don't have much else to add here.�
Nov 1, 2015
Drucifer Rules of Thumb I have used:
Car Loan <= 1/2 pre-tax annual income (or 6 months income, pre-tax)
Home Loan <= 3 years pre-tax annual income (or 36 months income, pre-tax)
If you want more car or more house than fits the equation, save for a down payment big enough to reduce the car note or mortgage.
Personally, I couldn't wrap my head around a car payment that went over 60 months and over $1k a month, including interest - even though that was well under my rule above. I had to make a bigger down payment to stay in my comfort zone of "what a monthly car payment should be"
YMMV - seriously. OP - I am not you and cannot live your life for you.
2 edges of the sword
Edge 1 is you should save and invest wisely
Edge 2 is you only live once and you can't take it with you�
Nov 1, 2015
Max* I see the perspective of the people who say that buying an auto that costs your annual income is risky.
OTOH, some people indulge in cars sacrificing other things (whatever your vice may be, alcohol, gambling, going out, bars, women/men, restaurant, concerts, etc.). If anything, now is the time to buy a car if you think your job is secure. Interest rates are low, the fed may or may not raise them soon.
I take a lot of calculated risks financially [I went back and forth about the Model S for months], some of them have paid off, some of them I'm still paying for. Do I regret it? Nope. So my advice, if you can afford it, and you can pull it off, go for it.
You could always get a used 85kwh model with AP. Just continue looking at the CPO site.
OP - here is the income thread -- Model S Buyers: What's Your Income?
Plenty of people who bought a Model S have FAMILY incomes which are less/close to the cost of the car.�
Nov 1, 2015
ndhaon91 I'm not going to tell you what to do; I'll just give you my story and let you compare.
Like you, I really debated whether I could afford a Model S. There is still a part of me that thinks it wasn't a great decision, but like you, I'm in sort of "aw **** it" mode. I know the money is better spent elsewhere, but I've never done something like this for myself and I decided my enjoyment is worth it.
Having said that...
I'll make almost twice what you do this year, and I own my business so my entire monthly lease is tax deductible. And I still feel like I can just *barely* afford to do this. Again, take that for what it's worth.�
Nov 1, 2015
Electric700 From what you say, it looks like you really want a Model S :smile:
So, you might want to consider a lease if you would like lower monthly payments in the $800 - $900 area. Plus, you'd get the option of actually purchasing your car at the end of the lease term.�
Nov 1, 2015
sub Fight the urge, that is financial prison buying a Tesla with that income. My wife and I make substantially more and I'm still planning to wait for model 3 unless we get a big increase in income between now and then. We leased an i3 and the gas savings alone will pay for A minimum of 75% the cost of the lease. This is coming from a TSLA shareholder that really should encourage everyone to buy a Tesla ASAP!�
Nov 1, 2015
smrtasp Buy used and go private party. Don't buy into the hype over auto pilot, it's a gimmick that you will get tired of. I bought a used 2013 P85+ With 26k miles on it for just under 70k. Nearly 50k less than new. No it doesn't have power folding mirrors, park sensors or any auto pilot hardware but that stuff wasn't worth 10-15k more for a 2014 model. It's still charges to 260 on a full charge, is super quick, had every option except rear facing folding seats and is under warranty. Point is you can get a used one with plenty of warranty for a ton less than new.�
Nov 1, 2015
InternetDude Autopilot is not a gimmick, it is 100% awesome and I wouldn't buy a car without it.�
Nov 2, 2015
davidc18 +1 - Have to agree that autopilot is amazing and one of the top reasons to GET a tesla.�
Nov 2, 2015
Soolim Glad to hear that from an investor.�
Nov 2, 2015
ChadFeldheimer For vehicle purchases, I have a litmus test: I like to calculate the cost per mile - that is, take total cost of ownership and divide by the miles I drive over that period. Then I think about how I use my cars and whether I'm comfortable spending that much for each trip. If the (prorated) cost of each trip would change my driving behavior in the negative (i.e. it would cause me to choose to skip a trip I would normally take), that's a sure sign to me that it's too much car.
I think you'll find that the incremental cost of a Model S versus basic (but still comfortable) transportation is somewhere around $1/mile.
As a personal example, I drive 50 miles round trip to commute for work, so that's $50 each work day. I plan to take a cross country road trip once a year. That's several thousand dollars each road trip.
Perhaps you can apply this litmus test to your situation.�
Nov 2, 2015
sandpiper This is exactly it. A Tesla S is a bit like the first iPhone; the tech in this car amazing now but will be much less so in a few years. Tesla is doing a phenomenal job on their stated mission - "to promote clean driving" and in doing so they are going to fairly quickly depreciate the early high cost cars. If you can wait 2 years, you'll probably get an 85D with autopilot and 50-60K on it for <50K. And you'll be able to keep both your left and right ones.�
Nov 2, 2015
Max* Autopilot is not a gimmick. It depends on how/where you travel, if you don't do a lot of long distance highway driving, then you don't need AP. Otherwise it's great. TACC alone is amazing, but combined with auto-steer it goes one level higher.�
Nov 2, 2015
Armadillos I'll add my $.02 on this...
I'm in the same area as the OP. Make around $88K/year, ended up buying a Tesla 70D with Autopilot. The car did cost around 1x my salary before taxes. And I'm okay with this. I'm still investing my money, and still putting money away for retirement. I ran the math on a spreadsheet, and figured out that I can live the lifestyle I wanted while owning a Tesla. I don't travel that much, I don't have any kids, and I live in a modest house (no need for a big house when it's just me).
Let me put it this way. I was driving a 2012 Dodge RAM 1500 Limited truck for 24,000 miles a year. The cost of that truck plus the gas I was spending equaled to the payment I am making on this car. And I'm okay with that. YMMV, but if you can live with having the car and still do the things you want to do (don't forget about retirement), then by all means do it. You have one life, and no dress rehearsal. If you can afford to do it, then do it.�
Nov 2, 2015
McHoffa I would have to agree with this. Don't put yourself in a bind for one, but if you have cash to play with and the way you want to play is with a Tesla, go for it. I've known plenty of people that blow money on much worse things.�
Nov 3, 2015
brkaus Unless your in a situation where fuel savings would offset, try to save up a significant down payment over the next six months and then make a decision when the model 3 info is available.�
Nov 3, 2015
Brass Guy Another $.02 to add.
I'd say I'm not too far off your financial situation. I did have a substantial down payment, which you didn't mention. I was fully aware that it is a poor financial decision, and weighed many factors - domestic vehicle, domestic energy, cost of gas vs electricity, sales/annual excise tax, insurance, cost of tires, "you only live once," etc.
I did factor in the federal credit. After the down payment I kept what I'd consider a modest emergency fund until I got my return; after which I let a sigh of relief.
Lease is always out of the question for me with over 20k miles/year. With the Model S, more like 24k miles and increasing.
I got a loan for 60 months. As I said, I put down a substantial amount to keep the monthly payments down, but with rates still so low it may have been a better move to invest the money and pay more monthly; but that's not a comfortable area for me and I hate debt so I dumped it into the car.
I still don't see a used one as a very good deal. Maybe if you're going for lots of options on an older car, which it sounds like you're not. Also consider the cars are constantly improving, and not just features. The newer the car, the better the build.
As long as you understand that it is poor financial planning (as is any new car) and know where you stand, go for it if you can. I have not a shred of regret, over 2 years now.�
Nov 3, 2015
rsquared99 "...I got rear ended by some broad in a..." As an Air Force guy, I see the Navy still has problems with gender language.�
Nov 3, 2015
FloridaGary I agree with you regarding leasing not being the best financial decision, but with the Model S, I am considering it due to the technology advances and model design changes that can occur in the next 3 years and I'll want to upgrade like an iPhone. If you're on the fence, you may be better off waiting until the Model III comes out. I'm sure it will be another home run for Elon.�
Nov 4, 2015
2krazykats Navyguy mentioned he lives in a condo. Where/how would he charge the Tesla?
Im also vacillating between wants/desires and financial goals. I am hoping for a 70D but also considering an older model S. Based on quotes I've been given for a CPO 70D, the prices are still not where I would feel comfortable making the commitment so I wait.:frown:Sometimes, good things come to those who wait, I am hoping!�
Nov 4, 2015
FloridaGary I'm with you on this too. I just don't see the value in CPO prices when they are close to a new Model S 70 or 70D.�
Nov 4, 2015
Drucifer The value in CPO is if you want a lot of options, and are willing to forego all wheel drive, next gen seats, parking sensors, autopilot and folding mirrors.
Trust me on this - see signature below�
Nov 4, 2015
Ugliest1 Autopilot is amazing, a friend demo'd it for me since Sparky is blind (and old, and slow). But now I think we should start an argument about just where autopilot should fall amongst all the OTHER "top reasons" to get a Model S. Because there are a whole bunch besides Autopilot! However, I suppose I'll eventually have to grudgingly admit that AP might squeeze itself up there with all the others...�
Nov 4, 2015
Drucifer Autopilot (and all wheel drive) - which gets me to why I am seriously considering Model X for my wife.�
Nov 4, 2015
FloridaGary Understood regarding the options. I must be in the minority in that I only want the Tech package. AWD, next Gen seats and AP are not wanted or needed. I'll wait for AP to develop further before I consider it.�
Nov 4, 2015
Max* I don't want next gen seats either, I'm actually annoyed that the regular seats are only available in black now.
Do you do roadtrips a lot? Even if you don't want autosteer, TACC alone is worth it. Auto-high beams are cool, and useful, but I wouldn't pay extra for that feature alone.�
Nov 4, 2015
autodidaddict I've mentioned this in another post, but when I go into a purchase for something as big as a Tesla, I spreadsheet the hell out of it. I take the concept of a "pros vs. cons" list and that list becomes a 4-chalkboard college professor scrawl of epic proportions. I figured out how much I've spent on routine maintenance over the life of the past 2 vehicles I've owned, factored in how much gasoline I've spent on them over the life of those vehicles, compared that to the amount of driving I expect to do (I make multiple large road trips per year).
In the end, I found that while I could justify the increase in cost of the vehicle by listing off all the fuel savings I would be getting, it came down to this...
The Tesla is
- A beautiful car
- Makes me grin from ear to ear to drive
- Zero emissions
- Zero combustion
- Zero gasoline
- Makes long road trips fun again
The rest of the stuff ended up not mattering much to me. I honestly don't care what I'm going to get in resale value for it, because I intend to drive it until it stops working or I replace it with a newer one, both of which will happen after I've paid off the 70D.�
Nov 4, 2015
Zybane Silly to put cash down on a car when with good credit you can get ~1.99% interest rates. That money is much more useful being invested.�
Nov 4, 2015
McHoffa I'm just about ready to purchase one (which will by far be my biggest car purchase ever) but first things first, I need to get electrical work done for home charging and have a place to put it so it's not out in the elements. The hardest part for me is that I REALLY want more than a 70D, but that's not realistic for me.�
Nov 4, 2015
yo mama For what it's worth, the only option I *didn't* get was the rear facing seats and snow package. If I lost any of the options I did get, I would certainly miss them. But I'm honestly not sure I'd care if I'd never ordered them in the first instance, as I'd never had known the difference. I guess my point is that I enjoy - and do not regret - any of the options I selected.�
Nov 4, 2015
cytranic I'm with ya. South Florida is no place for heated seats. Those come free. Rear seats are only for kids. Dont need anymore reasons for the wife to want more.
But the grey turbines make the car in my opinion.�
Nov 4, 2015
AB4EJ I have to agree with the above; at least, if you must have a Model S in the short term, consider a CPO (or maybe even buy from private party). This can save $$.
For other car budgeting advice, see: Dave Ramsey His advice would definitely be to wait for a more affordable Tesla if you can't pay cash (or mostly cash) for MS.�
Nov 4, 2015
DrManhattan I would say this is roughly accurate, but I would shoot for 1/3 - 1/2 for Car, and 3-4 years for a house (especially in CA). Most importantly, you should probably know your own finances and budget and know if you can afford something. If you have to ask it sounds like you're trying to justify something. I probably average around 30-32K for the last 4 cars I bought (or leased), so jumping to 70-80K is quite a lot, but I know I can afford it.�
Nov 5, 2015
California Roll Maybe get the most expensive configuration way beyond your means, then start a youtube channel to tell the world about your suffering. Eventually that youtube will pay for the car.�
Nov 5, 2015
Max* Tesla is running the $1k off promotion again. You can use the link in my signature to save an extra $1k off your purchase�
Nov 6, 2015
Navyguy In reply to a few comments since my lest log in. one yes condo. two Garage lol. 3 I do not pay electric haha only gas and sewage lmao. so actually since I am on a yearly lease, unless it doubles my usage I see no reason they would care. not family owned but friend. I know the people who own the condo. I pay an even 800 a month plus gas / sewage. gas, the only thing is drier. (electric heater lol)
Also Looking at loans I cannot justify much of a down payment. I can get one say 3-5K but from zero to almost 10K was only a difference in 100 dollars a month. sorry but over 84 months. that's less than 10K no reason for a DP. obv to help the loan I would put down maybe 1-2k deposit. but other than that logically speaking they do not really help your payment enough over the course of a loan to justify them (they are usually there for credit issues etc as in if a bank wants to see you have some financial liability so as to less likely stiff them.)
a 70D with the AP and winter package as well as sport susp. comes to just shy of 1200 at 84 months. that's about 40% of my after tax take home pay NOT including residual commissions which average spread is 5-10K yearly. (paid monthly based on previous months shipments) so obv some months may be very little one month may be really high. (just over 4K a month)
I know generally it is 20% max. I do not have much debt. really not much at all. I mostly spend my money at the casino and some out to dinner with GF. and movies etc. if I leveraged my monies better in those places I think I could make up the difference.
Yes I now cars are the worst investment. its not an investment. It's a want. everything you buy isn't either. a house yes that appreciates. your clothes depreciate so do your tv's computers, furniture. etc etc etc.
so investment wise i don't really care I would prefer to work til I cant, saving for when I am old to me is dumb because you work / live for 60 years like crap then live great for 10-20 more years in relatively poor health. The reason they want you to save for retirement is because they know you will never use it all lol. so they want your kids to get it and the government hahaha I am kidding. but in a way live now. or live later is really all that comes down too.
All I am saying as a 27 year old who was in the navy since 18 and got out in 2012 if living on 1400-1500 a month of disposable income (after all bills are paid) is tight life or decent. I like my condo. so to have this car and still be able to completely give away 1500 a month (maybe 12-1300 more likely) and still have my bills paid I think seems plenty doable and not have a feeling of poorness for 84 months lol
I mean isn't 1500 in spendable income a pretty good amount to live well if that's how much you have to blow for the month? That is 375 a week. that I could use to spend on Movies, going out, gambling etc. And of which I do not do a ridiculous amount of that as it is. although having that car I may want to do more. so I mean even if its 200-350 a week in spending money after bills are paid. sound ******? or fine?
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That is kinda how I feel. I for sure want the p90d ludicrous upgrade
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HAHAAH No ****. probably would work too lmao. people love to watch a trainwreck. think that BS honey boo boo lol OMG. the crap on tv today haha
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Lol whoopy do. make it 10K and its worth jumping the gun to save a bit. Even if I miss that I would be better off making the right decision in due time rather than a poor one two quick (hence why I am here asking lol)
I mean it only really becomes irresponsible when I all of a sudden have an issue like if I had a kid and got married to someone who don't work the day after I buy the car lol.
Think Gofundme would work hahaha I think I have seen a few on there. people getting like 2 bucks from their friends lol haha. if you think this forum has 30K users if each one went there and gave me 3 bucks I could buy the car lol
We could all buy each other them hahaha.�
Nov 6, 2015
Brass Guy It sounds like you know exactly what you're getting into, and are in a decent situation to do it.
The only thing I'd add at this point is though P90D is just too irresponsible, see how the numbers look if you went 85D, which is about as fast as the "old" P85. The way I see it, before the D, it cost about $20k to upgrade from 60 to P85. Lots of people found it worth it. You get the same upgrade from 70D for $10k.�
Nov 6, 2015
Brass Guy I think you mean Smart Air Suspension. It is not sport suspension. If you want even sportier handling, the 21" wheels is the only factory upgrade for that; ever since they did away with the + package. But then you're talking about replacing tires much more often. The air suspension is a different feel, but I don't think I'd say it's a sport feel. I don't want to sidetrack too much, there are many threads about tires and SAS. I just want to point it out since you're on a budget and I'm very happy with the standard coil suspension.�
Nov 6, 2015
Ugliest1 I support you, notwithstanding all the excellent financial-related advice and warnings above. It sounds to me like you've thought through the necessary things to figure out the true reality of the costs. Going into this with your eyes open, seems like.
My one piece of advice I'd give once you entered into this is, make sure you get a loan that you can pay extra into to reduce the overall interest. Then, if you find at the end of a month (/pay period) you have $25 left over, stick it on the loan. Or $10. And repeat. Doesn't seem like it will make much of a difference... but it does. And if the loan rules limit the number of extra payments you can make, then stick the extra in a "special place" and dump it on the loan as soon as it makes sense (cents?).
And... I think a 70D (or 85D...) will blow your mind. P'ing not necessary. Spoken from a non-P owner.�
Nov 6, 2015
eclipxe What about savings? Are you including savings/401k/emergency fund in your bills? You're relatively young - you have a long future ahead, every dollar you save today, your future self will thank you for. If you can fund a 401k and have savings, with 1400-1500/mo left over, go for it. But don't forget to save...�
Nov 6, 2015
asudan Solid advice. However over a certain income level things "change". Someone making $50k a year should have a $25k car and live in a $150k house. On the flipside, someone making $400k a year probably should NOT have a $200k car, but could easily have a $1.2M house.�
Nov 6, 2015
Soolim I think the OP already made up his mind. He was just seeking confirmation from TMC. His future is bright and secure. I never had his optimism while I was young, so I did not enjoy life (material aspect) until now.�
Nov 6, 2015
RyanT I'd like to suggest he look at getting coil suspension. Like someone mentioned air suspension is not sport suspension(I think coils may be more sporty?). I would definitely get AP. I make a little over $100k and got a $80k car on 74 month loan 1.74%. I have just about enough to pay for the car outright if I wanted to though. I'd rather take advantage of the interest rate : )
Nice thing about the car is your loan payment is about all you have to worry about. Factor in tires every 25k miles.. But otherwise I think it's about equal to a high $40k car especially if you keep the options down.�
Nov 6, 2015
2krazykats Well I wouldn't forget about insurance :smile:. Mine was quoted almost $500 a year more than my current car but I think your point is gas and oil changes, stuff related to other maintenance for ICE vehicles. Also, there is a Tesla maintenance package you're practically required to buy in order to qualify for warranty has been discussed multiple times in these forums.
just read some of the details and it's $600/year or every 12,500 miles.�
Nov 6, 2015
Max* It's not required for warranty.�
Nov 6, 2015
2krazykats I've read different posts where people were told different things by Tesla SC. Maybe that's been cleared up by Tesla but you can read posts here Maintenance Service Fee and here Thoughts about Tesla Warranty, CPO, Service, and Other Policies and come up to your own conclusion. Regardless, it's a cost to consider with owning a Tesla.�
Nov 6, 2015
smsprague My Tesla is by far the most expensive car to maintain than anything I have ever owned. But I have never owned a Bentley. I was fully aware of the costs and would still buy it again.�
Nov 6, 2015
JenniferQ Need more specifics. Please tell us what makes it so expensive to maintain. I am a new owner. Thanks!�
Nov 6, 2015
brkaus I'm told service is not required for warranty, but is required for the buy back guarantee.�
Nov 7, 2015
smsprague The $600 per year check up fee. I know you can blow it off but.�
Nov 7, 2015
Zybane What do they "check"? And you are suppose to do this check every year of ownership starting at year one?�
Nov 7, 2015
smsprague Every 12K miles or one year. A bunch of inspections.�
Nov 7, 2015
2krazykats I would read the threads I referenced above. It will be very informative! It also seems like Tesla needs to do a better job being consistent across their SCs on the types of things they perform during the annual inspection so it's best to get your SC to tell you what they will perform for the annual.�
Nov 7, 2015
2krazykats I wanted to update my post regarding the annual service and warranty since I didn't want to publish misinformation and speculation... This is from an official Tesla website "Annual maintenance is recommended to ensure that your Model S is always in the best condition but even if you never bring it in, your warranty is still valid." - Ref: Annual and recall service | Tesla Motors. Which does give me a better feeling about needing to pay for the $600 annual service (or rather to not pay for it).�
Nov 7, 2015
Zybane $600 every year for a possible wheel alignment and windshield wipers? No thanks. Not even sure why they mention software upgrades as that's done automatically.�
Nov 7, 2015
Drucifer How bad $600 is varies on reference point.
My Saab went through about $1800 in scheduled maintenance in year 1 (I drove it almost 25k miles and went into a service interval around every other month that was between $200-$500 each time)
My Chevy Volt in 3 years and 30k miles took 3 tire rotations and 1 oil change - total cost in 3 years $120 or $40/year
Assuming you just do warranty repairs with Model S and skip the service (or do it less frequently), the most expensive thing becomes keeping rubber on the tires. If you have 21" wheels with ContiSportContact tires, you are in for 10 cents a mile - over twice what "fuel" costs!�
Nov 11, 2015
Navyguy Well, Although income would allow it, my credit would not. at least not yet. Damn Navy wish I knew better when I was younger about those stupid places like USA Discounters :/ never would have used them. guess I will be waiting a while lol.�
Nov 11, 2015
S'toon Oh yes. I read about those predatory swine and how they target servicemembers. Sorry to hear about your troubles with them.�
Nov 11, 2015
Navyguy Its paid off, but have never had good credit ever since lol.�
Nov 12, 2015
2krazykats This might be a fortuitous and saving grace development... You could put what you would've put on the loan in a savings account and in a couple of years, afford to buy it outright!�
Nov 12, 2015
Navyguy Does any one know where a sub prime lender that would lend out 70-100K+ loan?�
Nov 13, 2015
Max* Many lenders will lend out to a person with less than ideal credit. Those same lenders will raise your interest rates, and require lower DTI ratios, which likely means you need to put more money down.�
Nov 13, 2015
Xenius If you do manual underwriting you can likely still get a loan. One of the real stupid things about credit score based loans is that a guy with 1mill in the bank but a **** credit score can't get a 100k loan. If you have the income and assets to back the loan, find a place that will do manual underwriting.�
Nov 13, 2015
S'toon On the other hand, if you got a cheaper economic ICE car now, in a couple of years you could save enough to buy a Model 3 outright. Invest the money in a safe investment (or heck, if you're gung-ho and wiling to take a risk in the short term Tesla).�
Nov 13, 2015
GasKilla Did you already try the Tesla lending? They use several different lenders, one might work for you.�
Nov 13, 2015
Navyguy '
Thanks, I will look into that, what exactly is that? and I agree. money is nothing to them lol. there are reasons other than lack of ability to pay back a loan. hell divorce even screws you over. lol
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I have not but i would almost doubt they would be able to. something about that seems like they want A1 only lol�
Nov 13, 2015
GasKilla I was honest and they gave me a loan (I wouldn't give me a loan so I was surprised) but they don't ask for verification of stated income, if you know the car it will work for your budget accidentally inflating you income won't be double checked. It doesn't hurt to give it a try. Only if you've had many credit inquiries does a red flag go up.�
Nov 13, 2015
Navyguy
well i may have had a few inquiry for the car as well as a credit card or two within the last year (was gonna get one for work for expense account) but ended up just paying out of pocket first (figured i could have built credit by paying it off with my reimbursement :/
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since i do not know you, you care to share what your score was? mine is about 575 I think although I just read about USA discounters a little bit ago. apparently some BS with them they going out of business from their scams. maybe i can get that neg into a pos and get to be around 620ish�
Nov 13, 2015
eclipxe I would recommend holding off on a Tesla for a while. Put the payment into savings, you will really really really thank yourself later.�
Nov 13, 2015
Navyguy 
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I may try a lease instead. one because in that amount of time the next one out will be way better. and its cheaper. I just need to accurately guess my mileage. but I never really cared for the idea of a lease.
May be out of the question though since I know at 15K miles that's about 62 miles a day average. I will blow 15 in the first 6 months prob. lol�
Nov 14, 2015
McHoffa I've never understood why someone would lease. I've done the math on this many times before to try to justify a lease just to get a lower monthly payment, but it's always come out better to buy. I'd love to hear someone that's come out ahead leasing.
Example: For the 70D spec'd out the way I want it, it's $84,450 (after doc and destination fee). Lease requires $6683 due at signing. So let's say I put that same amount up front for the purchase. Now I'm down to $77,767 that I need to finance. If I get a loan for 72 months at 3%, my payments are $1182/mo. After 36 months, I still owe $40,630. I've paid $45,552. Let's say I put 15k miles per year on it (which I'm not limited to, but to keep it in line with the lease). I turn around and sell the car at that point private party for $50k (which seems reasonable after looking at other Model S private party sales). That's almost $10k back. Oh, and add the $7500 tax rebate from that first year. $17k back in pocket.
On the lease, I paid a total of $35568, and I have to give the car back. Total payments were $5k less that buying, but no cash back on a sale, and no tax rebate.
You come out $12k ahead on the purchase. If you actually keep the car to the end of 6 years and sold it, you'd probably still get $30k (just a guess, since it's new territory). If you can do the payments, get a 3-4 year loan and get even lower interest rates.
Now that said, I'm basing this on both history of ICE cars and sales I found of Teslas via private party that are 3 years old. The one unknown is if in the next 3 years a major advancement and lower price for battery tech comes along with the giga factory. If the jump is big enough and/or the price goes down enough, it could make the current Model S worth next to nothing, much like a 3 year old smartphone or laptop, with the one plus being that the current cars have lifetime supercharger access.
I guess you have to decide if you will stay under the mileage limit and if you want to deal with trying to sell it later. Otherwise, buying/selling will almost always come out ahead of leasing.�
Nov 14, 2015
digitaltim My lease versus buy analysis on higher end cars puts the lease option ahead financially but that may be undermined by the tax credit for new purchases.
That said, I would have considered a lease when I got my Sig if they have been offered solely for the ease of upgrading to the latest and greatest model given the rapid rate of change.�
Nov 22, 2015
Navyguy Someone removed it, what ever I don't really care. I hit, so what. was just saying, that I would wait until they have had most of them checked is all. Was going to remove it, as it was not really a solicitation. But the animosity to it is also in poor taste.
You should edit your post so its no longer represented in the forums.
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Oh btw how long did you guys have to wait once you ordered one to get it?�
Nov 22, 2015
eclipxe Fair enough, done.�
Nov 22, 2015
Navyguy Also fyi There really isn't much mention in the rules about ANYTHING like it it was not even off topic as I was merely mentioning the reason I finally decided to get one, as opposed to financing.
Also was only saying look up the news about it. not BUY IT�
Nov 22, 2015
Max* I feel like I'm missing some posts/context�
Nov 23, 2015
Roadrunner13 Yeap, the OP mentioned that he was going to be able to buy now (no need to finance/lease)
because he made a killing on stock XYZ... but he mentioned the stock name.
So that was removed by a moderator and I guess we don't have any signs of removed post afterwards...�
Nov 23, 2015
GasKilla My delivery date keeps fluctuating, but I think no more than 3 months on the very long end of things to as little as one month on the quick side. I think there is a thread on average delivery time with a survey.�
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