Thứ Hai, 30 tháng 1, 2017

New fatal crash in Holland part 1

  • Sep 7, 2016
    Matias
  • Sep 7, 2016
    wilheldp
    That car certainly doesn't look like it has been on fire.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    schonelucht
    The car hasn't been on fire, the battery got (partially) detached from the car and caught fire. I agree the title for the article is incorrect, the driver died from impact and not in a burning car.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    AustinPowers
    Agreed.
    Apart from the fire on the road, the car itself doesn't show any signs of a fire.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Matias
  • Sep 7, 2016
    Chopr147
    "Some news outlets are linking the accident to Tesla�s Autopilot system, but without any confirmation that the system was actually in use during the fatal crash"
    Todays "journalists"
    Too bad for that 53 yr old man who died. Prayers
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    voyager
    The 28th of July another accident was reported, this time in Hagestein, the Netherlands. The Model S rear-ended a truck. Driver was not hurt. Here are some pictures. I am sure Dutch Tesla technicians are investigating that one too.

    [?IMG][?IMG]
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Raven
    Tesla driver dies in a Model S after hitting a tree. Tesla driver dies in a Model S after hitting a tree, battery caught fire, Tesla launches an investigation

    First, RIP to the driver. Hitting a tree at high speed usually isn't survivable, no matter the car.

    Some observations....they seem to sensationalize that the driver was inside while it was burning. Judging by the pictures, the cabin was untouched by flames. Better yet, so are the trees, so it doesn't seem to have been a large fire. There is a blip about the firefighters saying the fire wasn't the problem, it was the mangled state of the car that was the problem.

    Second, the old blue. Did any autopilot equipped cars come out when the old blue was being offered? Maybe a small overlap but I don't think it's very likely that this car had AP like they're insinuating.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    ibdb
    "Second, the old blue. Did any autopilot equipped cars come out when the old blue was being offered? Maybe a small overlap but I don't think it's very likely that this car had AP like they're insinuating."

    I have the "old blue" and have AP. We ordered our car just after the old blue was eliminated, but were still able to work with Tesla to get it. Our car was ordered April 30 and delivered in early June of 2015, and there was certainly plenty of time before that for others to have ordered that color combination.

    A Dutch language thread here believes the car to be a 2013 model, though. I don't speak Dutch to add any more context to that.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Bimbels
    I also have old blue and AP. Though when we ordered (May 2015 - delivered July 15) we were told they "might" still be able to do it. I think they stopped it soon after. Didn't AP hardware start to appear in cars in Oct 14?
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Stoneymonster
    Yup, old blue AP here. We went with that after they cancelled green right after ordering. So if you want another color cancelled just let me know and I'll order it.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    ecarfan
    If that is the case, the Model S was moving at a very high rate of speed when it hit the tree, as the force required to fracture the battery enclosure is significant. The road appears to be a narrow two lane road with many trees on either side, some of them quite close to the road. It appears the driver was going much too fast for those conditions and lost control of the vehicle. The crash was "early this morning". Perhaps he fell asleep. Or he simply wasn't paying attention.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Clomer
    My guess, for what it's worth, is that the driver simply fell asleep.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    K Hall
    AP hardware was installed at about VIN # 59 k
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    mikeash
    AP hardware started being delivered in mid-September 2014. I wanted the old blue when I ordered my car in December, but the wife vetoed it (and that's fine, she cares about it more than I do!).

    Doesn't look like the sort of road where you should be using AP without being very attentive, so regardless of whether they were using AP, seems like this would be on the driver.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Electric Dream
    There's some discussion about the firefighters being cautious about touching the car in case they were electrocuted.

    Is this a real danger with a Tesla if the integrity of the battery pack or inverter are compromised? Do emergency services receive training from Tesla on how to deal with their cars if they're in a wreck?
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Skione65
    @Electric Dream,

    From what I understand this was initially an issue. Particularly egress and removing people from the cars in accidents. They (firefighters) are now apparently starting to get specialized training in dealing with Teslas and their battery packs and passenger removal with jaws of life and what to do and not do with the J.O.L. due to the technical complexities of the Model S. I believe Tesla started a program that's being used by fire departments in fighter training specific to Teslas but am not positive. Maybe someone with family/friends in the firefighting/EMS realm can chime in here.

    Ski
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Ulmo
    From what I've read here in USA, yes and yes. From what I read from this Electrek article, the firefighters had the proper training information from Tesla, but could not make a path between that training and the situation presented to them; the reason they gave in the article was that the crash left the vehicle in too mangled a state that they did not recognize with respect to the training (too reformatted; didn't match training material closely enough). I have a feeling that an ample amount of ignorance was involved in that determination, but I wouldn't blame non-electricians for that, and I really hope Tesla takes this as an opportunity to learn about how to better more precisely explain what can be done in situations like this.

    Apparently, Teslas are easy to fall asleep in lately. A pertinent feature this year would be a module that detects sleepiness and jolts the driver into awakeness, then prompts the driver to pull over and take a walk, and as a punishment, donates some money from the driver's bank account to some cause or pays for a hotel room or something.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Ivo-G
    I'm Dutch and am following the news. If you guys have any questions please do ask them.

    First of al, I find it a tad tasteless to jump immediately to the question or even conclusions that AP was involved, that the driver fell asleep, or anything else. For all that's known now he might have had a heart attack or brain infarct, and been dead or dying before the actual accident occurred. A person just died, let's respect that and wait and see what investigations and autopsy tell us.

    Secondly, Dutch firefighters are indeed aware and trained in how to deal with electric cars after setting up protocols starting in 2009. After Norway the Netherlands are the 2nd highest Tesla adoption market in Europe, so they are quite familiar with the Model S and have the schematics and relevant info in their rescue info tablets. In this case however they waited for a Tesla expert from the Tilburg factory / service center to advise them how to deal with this particular incident where:
    a. The battery had been ruptured and torn in at least 2 pieces, with one half landing on the road and catching fire, which they managed to put out by covering it with dirt.
    b. The driver was already confirmed dead, and they did not see any reason to put themselves at risk with half the battery still connected to the car somehow. Had the driver still been alive they would've risked their lives if needed to rescue him and wouldn't have taken 8 hours in total to get him out.
    To my understanding only the part of the battery pack that was slung out unto the road caught fire, the car itself did not.

    I'll try to keep you posted once I know more.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    schonelucht
    Unfortunately it has been confirmed that this was 2015 Tesla with Autopilot. It is yet unknown if the function was actually engaged. At the location of the incident the road is straight, clear and markings are excellent. The firemen tried to extinguish the part of the battery that caught fire with powder but that didn't work due to continuing short circuits. The fire was finally termined by covering the battery with earth. I can see how the continued short circuits in the battery on the road made the crew hesitant to try to recover the body from the car that had the remaining part of the high voltage battery. Obviously with the driver already deceased they did not want to take any unnecessary risk at all. After 8 hours, the remains were finally removed from the car.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Electric Dream
    This is an interesting point. Very quiet car. Very comfortable. AP or not, I can see this could be the case, but we can't rule out other causes for this accident of course. Could equally have been a heart attack etc.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    McRat
    Car makers of all kinds submit cars to fire depts to develop rescue procedures.
    My son and I watched the LAFD cut open a brand new luxury car as a demonstration during a defensive driving school. They know exactly how to cut the doors off, remove the glass safely, and cut the pillers to remove or peel back the roof to extract victims. It takes just a few minutes.

    Cars also disconnect the fuel pump or main pack relay at the time the airbags are triggered, but sometime even when they are not. They read an accelerometer and an orientation sensor and it shuts them off. A good owner's manual will tell you how to enable it if it accidently shuts the car off when the collision is not significant.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Matias
    Do you know, if the cabin area was in fire?
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Drivin
    Mercedes has this.
    Given their commitment to safety, I am sure they would license it to Tesla for free (if a license were required).
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    schonelucht
    Not a single report talks about fire in the cabin while they all mention the fire of the battery on the road. Likely no fire in the cabin. The discoloration of the airbag may simply be due to lighting. The first incident happened early in the morning, before dawn.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    McHoffa
    I wish every accident made headlines. It would make regular cars look like the death traps that they are.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Skotty
    Big trees don't move, and they don't absorb impacts. Not good to hit one at speed. It's like a head on collision, and if you have ever noticed, head on collisions are frequently fatal. The S can absorb some of the impact on it's own, but it's kind of a worse case scenario. You can die just from the rapid deceleration, even if there is no cabin intrusion.

    I do wonder if maybe Tesla could build an auto-battery disconnect linked to air bag deployment. That could help reduce electrocution risks and fears when rescuing occupants from a Tesla that has been in a serious collision.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Electric Dream
    I think the later photos were taken after the airbag was moved away from the window, so what you see is the view through the window.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I agree.

    Why do we have to post Every time a Tesla crashes and fictitiously burns?

    You know......every 50 billion car trips.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Just a Reader
    Yes, it's getting slightly ghoulish.

    An accident early in the morning on such a road - I would also consider the involvement of wildlife (deer, wild boar) as a possible aspect.

    As to rescue instructions; Mercedes is putting QR codes with rescue information on their cars now. That looks like a good idea to me.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    ecarfan
  • Sep 7, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    It doesn't appear that the airbags burned or caught on fire.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    J1mbo
    At this point, they don't even know if the driver was alive at the time of the crash.

    As @ecarfan posted, based on the reported fact that *part* of the battery was found burning on the road, the impact speed must have been substantial enough to not only detatch the battery from the car, but also to rip it apart.

    Having personally seen the immediate aftermath of an ICE accident where the driver suffered a heart attack, causing him to press hard on the gas pedal and drive into a lamp-post at "over 70mph", I can see this a likely scenario.

    Whatever the cause, it is a tragic accident and thoughts are with his family.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Just a Reader
    Sorry, but this is both premature and exceedingly unfair. The driver wouldn't be the first person to get killed trying to avoid a collision with e.g. a deer or a wild boar under such conditions.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Daniel 74
  • Sep 7, 2016
    Garlan Garner
  • Sep 7, 2016
    drinkerofkoolaid

    - Why would a journalist speculate it might have been active without any evidence it was? Even if Autopilot was active, does Autopilot have to do with this unfortunate incident?

    - The same thing could happen to any Automobile.

    This incident, while unfortunate, does not deserve it's own thread. :cool:
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Daniel 74
    The small photograph in the article speaks for itself, doesn't it?
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Matias
    can't open without registration
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    That is true. If that journalist is wrong....he/she needs to be fined and/or fired.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    drinkerofkoolaid
    Even worse, the WSJ just published a BS article, implying this situation is similar to what happened in Florida. Also, the author who wrote the article used a very misleading comment by saying " Tesla declines to say if self-driving system engaged at the time".

    Although it's technically true that Tesla did not say if Autopilot was active, this comment is very misleading. Tesla did what any responsible company would do, and stated that "We are undertaking a full investigation and will share our findings as soon as possible". It would be have been irresponsible for Tesla to have said anything before all of the facts are known.

    Assuming Autopilot was active before any facts are released is irresponsible and unprofessional.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Yeah.... that's terrible.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    schonelucht
    Unfortunately English is not the only language in the world. Anyway, Daniel is right : the article reports a fire in the cabin that manifested itself spontaneously one hour after the accident. Still, the driver was already passed away by then. If you google the article like this you can read it without registration. The Google translation of that page is, as usual, a bit funky, but should allow native English speakers to understand the gist of the article just fine.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    vgrinshpun
    I suspect that the fire, technically speaking, was not "spontaneous". If part of the battery was ripped out of the car, while another part of the pack was left damaged (structurally and probably with damaged cooling) in the car, and got high resistance short as a result of rupture, this low level fault (short) could lead to the heat build-up and eventual heat run-away, manifesting in the fire after some time.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    vgrinshpun
    You might want to send e-mail to the author, pointing out the inaccuracies in the article and putting pressure on him to correct them. I just did. His e-mail is [email�protected]
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Bubslug
    I doubt the driver fell asleep. The accident was about 450 m west of the intersection of N415 and N221. The car was travelling east on the Hilversumseestraatweg (N415). The Tesla looks to have driven over the 5.0 km marker sign on the N415 before it hit the tree, meaning it had only traveled 5 km from the last urban area, or less if you measure to the last major intersection (3.5 km). The most probable case is the driver was on his way to work in the morning.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    efusco
    Does anyone know what the speed limit is on that stretch of road? The collision looks pretty violent.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    3mp_kwh
  • Sep 7, 2016
    efusco
    I wouldn't assume that, it's often the first pieces removed in an extracation.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    drinkerofkoolaid
    I'll just leave this recent article about a fatal car crash that killed TWO people, that received no media coverage. The article doesn't even say what type of vehicle was being driven. At least the person who wrote this quick snippet of an article had the decency to not print baseless speculation, and to state that the crash remains under investigation.

    2, including Hamilton student, killed in crash with tree

    Here are a few more horrible crashes that happened recently.

    Two dead in Plantation after car smashes into tree

    Triple-fatal crash claims lives of woman, daughter, grandaughter

    Two dead in Plantation after car smashes into tree

    2 killed after SUV crashes into tree

    Now we know young LA couple killed in tree crash off 710 - MyNewsLA.com - (This happened two days ago)

    Fatal car crash into tree near Hyde Park


    Also, the headline of this thread should be changed. It implies there was another identical incident in Holland!

    If you do a quick search, you'll find A LOT of fatal car crashes (at least a few every month) where the vehicle being driven crashed into a tree.

    None of the articles in the links above include speculation by the journalist writing the story about what might have happened, commentary about the automobile or the automobile manufacturer, or a comparison to other accidents. In most of the articles, the author simply only that an accident happened, where the accident happened, and maybe the type of vehicle involved.


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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Bubslug
    I would guess 80 kph. It's a "rural" area, but not an expressway (100 kph) or motorway (130 kph)
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    efusco
    = ~50mph
    thanks
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Curt Renz
    I found the location on Google Maps. The car would have been headed slightly north of due east. That's the direction in which the Sun would have been rising during early September. If the sky was clear and the Sun had recently risen, the driver or autopilot may have been blinded by sunlight.

    If anyone knows the exact time of the accident, I could determine the position of the Sun in the sky. Information about cloud conditions would also be helpful.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Bubslug
    The first photos of the accident, which include parts of the battery still on fire, show that it was pre-dawn, I think the accident was about 6AM.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    uselesslogin
    Someone on Reddit who claims to live nearby did say it was 80.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Curt Renz
    Thanks. The Sun would not have risen at that location until 07:03 CEST (UT+2). If 06:00 is near the correct time for the accident, then my speculation about sun blinding can be disregarded.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    schonelucht
    The accident happened a full hour before sunrise.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Lex
    Human loss.
    Loss of a Tesla.

    First one is sadly still too common in motor vehicles, but coupled with the next one is why it's headline news around the world.

    The shock hazard delay is tragic, if there was any hope of rescue.

    But, an analog for a fuel-soaked car might have just meant an immediate fire.

    And there's the loss of a Tesla enthusiast, and possible TMC member. My thoughts are out to the family and friends.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Magus
    Unfortunate and sad. We all know how the media works. Negative press = viewers. Car wreck- throw in Tesla- then throw in Autopilot (more viewers), battery and fire. Screw the facts. Get more viewers/readers. The facts don't matter, and the headline of autopilot was invented regardless whether it was on or off.

    Pilots Say F-35 Fighter Is A Winner. So Where's The Media Coverage?
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    DougH
    Do we really need to start a new thread with every wreck, I think not.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I concur. Its not necessary.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    artsci
    Thanks for your plea for moderation. With the battery torn to pieces this sounds like a dreadful accident.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Jevi_S85D
    At 6am it seems it would be a dark deserted road running in a fairly straight line through a forest area.
    The situation could lend itself to a speed much higher than 80 kmph. We'll see.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Todd Burch
    Did the battery really fly out of a Tesla Model S during crash in Holland? [UPDATE]

    Synopsis:

    Autopilot in use? Not at all during the entire drive.
    Impact speed? >100 mph (>155 kph).

    All those shady reporters can initiate their article apologizing for sensationalizing what amounted to a run-of-the-mill high-speed accident fatality.

    Oh wait...
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Fred Ward
    Not much damage to the car considering it hit a tree at 100 MPH.[?IMG]
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    hill
    wait - did I not read the above well? It's known the S positively had AP? even though most old blue's were ordered prior to AP ?
    This whole article seems to be overblown more than the 500' cliff fatality story.
    Tesla Model S Plunges Off Cliff, Catches Fire, Fatality Reported
    I don't recall everyone crawling out of the woodwork to speculate whether or not THAT MS had AP.
    .
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Todd Burch
    Did the battery really fly out of a Tesla Model S during crash in Holland? [UPDATE]

    Tesla confirmed autopilot was never used during the driving session, and the impact was at "more than 155 kph", so the wild speculation can end:

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  • Sep 7, 2016
    hill
    Thank you.
    Now the speculative nonsense will have to be, "must have gone into an epileptic seizure - jamming the pedal to the floor" and "tesla needs to install health monitors to make the vehicle avoid such things" even before an autopsy is completed.
    (sigh)
    .
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    int32_t
    That is so sobering. Why can't people be a little more careful when they drive so this happens less often? :(

    Leaving the emotional side *over there* for a moment ... look, I'd lick the car. Sit on it. Cut the top off. Whatever. Electricity flows from one terminal of the battery to the other, and the machine isn't grounded (i.e., floating, or no current path through ground). If you're not standing on (or licking) the one terminal, even if you touch the other, you won't get zapped. The only real electrical danger is cutting a high voltage wire, and those aren't going to move from the charge port and rear area to the A/B pillars just because of a crash. The other danger is common to all car crashes: the potential for fire. Unlike gasoline, though, this fire isn't able to flow or spill. It's going to stay right in the car if it happens at all. But again, you don't need to cut anywhere near the battery pack and we all know you have long enough to pull over, park, and get out even if something really bad does happen, so if I'm already wearing a fire-proof suit ... ample warning, I'd say.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    EVie'sDad
    Here are a few larger photos. Not sure if that is the older blue or newer blue though.

    http://flip.it/IzOl3q
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Daniel 74
    The car was a 85d, as can be seen on the photographs.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    EarlyAdopter
    I do have to question whether Dutch firefighters are correctly trained, as in both this case and the Supercharger fire a few months ago they did not douse the burning vehicle or battery with liberal amounts of water, per Tesla's first response guide. In both cases a concern over electrocution was noted. I'm wondering whether there is some ignorance at play here that "battery electric fire" + "water" = "electrocution" ... which is not the case at all.

    Case in point - in the Mexico high speed drunk driving crash and subsequent fire a few years ago, a single firefighter extinguished the battery fire in 22 seconds by applying a constant stream of water to the fire, per Tesla's guide. No covering with dirt, no hosing down around the vehicle but letting it burn out as in the Netherlands cases.

    I'm concerned there could be apprehension at play here on the part of firefighters to avoid applying water. This could cost someone their life in a future EV fire. I believe more training, better PR, and correction of this misconception in the media is warranted. If a lithium-ion battery is on fire, hose it down!
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    voyager
    On Dutch radio, minutes ago: the Model S that crashed was speeding at 155 km/h, that's approx. 96 mph, and the auto-pilot was not activated.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    EVie'sDad
  • Sep 8, 2016
    wdolson
    The news reports did say it was a 2013 Tesla, which was pre-Autopilot.

    Though the media's hair trigger speculation about another Autopilot crash started with the accident in Florida followed by some people claiming to be on AP when they had an accident. Now every Tesla accident starts with the speculation the car was on AP.

    The bad news as more Teslas hit the road is that there will be more accidents and more people will die. It's a statistical certainty. If every accident with a Toyota Camry got the coverage Tesla gets, CNN would be running Camry accident stories 24/7 and probably not cover them all. Even if they limited themselves to fatal accidents it would probably fill all their air time.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    Electric Dream
    My interpretation of those photos was that someone had thrown a couple of lit warning flares onto the road.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    Daniel 74
    Then we may conclude that news reports aren't always right on facts. It was a 85d as can be seen nu the badge, hence it had autopilot. However, tesla has stated UT wasn't turned on.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    Todd Burch
    Initial speculation was that it was a 2013. It was later confirmed to be a 2015 with autopilot.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    thegruf
    Thoughts are with the driver's family.
    These are high performance cars, use wisely and stay safe folks.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    Ivo-G
    1. The Supercharger fire happened in Norway, not the Netherlands.

    2. It's easy to stand by the sideline and criticize or doubt those rushing in to help others. In a time and age where most people only take out their phones to film and photograph accidents but otherwise do nothing, these firefighters have to make choices regarding their own lives as well. Do they risk theirs to prevent material damage, or to rescue a person who's already dead, or do they take extra precautions for their own safety?
    Had the person(s) been alive, I can assure you they would've gone in anyways, electrocution risk or not.

    3. They are and were properly trained, to work with a wreck that they can handle. They know where and how to cut to disable the power connections. In this case however, even those connections weren't reachable / usable / dependable with regards to safety.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    Kalud
    4k video of the crash (aftermath). Fortunately not much damage to the cabin, still sad the driver died, probably too much deceleration on the body. Looks like most of the front got ripped apart (frunk, front drive unit, wheels & suspension) and probably first two modules of the battery pack. The first two one are stacked at the beginning of the pack. They probably got ripped from the crash and caught fire away from the car.

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  • Sep 8, 2016
    googlepeakoil
    First RIP the driver.
    I read somewhere a tree lined road is pretty - but very unsafe in terms of crashes. If the tree is less than 5inches (12cm) across the car takes out the tree. Anything more and you have in immovable object that extends above roof height (eg windows) making crashed very dangerous with very high g-force impact. Might as well be concrete posts. I remembered that recently when driving along pretty tree lined roads on holiday in France in my ICE car. Much better if you have a field for the car to run off into or spin off - same as Formula 1 - a large gravel run-off is much safer than a wall. And even if the road is clear a blown front tyre could easily send you off the road.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    googlepeakoil
    I believe there is something that disconnects incase the airbags trigger. There was a guy who was rebuilding a smashed up Tesla written off by an insurance company and people on here were advising him about replacing these fuses that would have tripped.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    Matthew Short
    It was proven by Tesla that autonomous mode was not engaged at the time of the crash.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    Phillip L
    It says the IMPACT was at 155 kph. I would think that the driver made no attempt to break at all if the impact was at such high speed. Seems that the theory of a seizure or heart attack or some other condition disabling the driver seems very credible. Is there any evidence that there was any attempt to slow the vehicle, I wonder?
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    NOLASTL
    I am so sorry that s man lost his life. My thoughts and prayers go out to his family.
    My issue is that just because it is a Tesla, this tragic accident gets worldwide coverage.
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  • Sep 8, 2016
    BluestarE3
    I think you meant Autopilot rather than autonomous. The latter isn't available yet.
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  • Sep 9, 2016
    Curt Renz
    While this may seem impolite, suicide must be considered. Police, insurance and Tesla investigators would undoubtedly be examining that possibility.
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  • Sep 9, 2016
    Bubslug
    I believe that's incorrect. That area on the road in the daytime photos showed a covered pile, I'm guessing they dumped dirt or sand on it to get the fire out and then put plastic over to prevent battery ash from blowing around.
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  • Sep 9, 2016
    Tam
    Dutch police closes probe into fatal Tesla crash


    "Dutch police closed a probe Friday into a fatal crash involving a Tesla, accepting the US electric car firm's findings that the Model S sedan was not on auto-pilot when it smashed into a tree."

    "prosecutors indicate there will be no criminal probe".
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  • Sep 9, 2016
    Bubslug
    That seems improbable unless you believe Tesla owners are less happy than the population at large. If so it would be possibly the third suicide by Tesla as the police hypothesized the Malibu Canyon and Jenner, Hwy 1 accidents could also have been suicides. In the case of the Malibu Canyon incident, suicide was in fact the final official conclusion if I am not mistaken.
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  • Sep 9, 2016
    Raven
    In my profession, we regularly discuss wrecks for the sake of learning from them. I didn't post to sensationalize it. I was more interested in learning when AP was introduced and when the old blue was discontinued. The media seems to always imply AP is at fault and I felt that there was a good chance this one didn't even have it installed.

    Whether you agree or not, being aware of how accidents happen, even if obvious, are a solid reminder to remain vigilant. Heck, I'm sure hearing about AP "scrapes" has caused those that are less knowledgable about AP limitations to pay more attention, as they should. Would you disagree? Also, often times I'm interested to learn of accidents so I can see just how well this car holds up in accidents in real world situations. I think the car has been stellar.
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  • Sep 9, 2016
    Ivo-G
    It's certainly a possibility. Just last Saturday night a man crashed his car at high speed into a gas station in Gouda, The Netherlands, causing a huge fire that engulfed all the pumps and the station roof. No one was killed in the fire, the driver was extracted by a bystander right after the crash and only had some cuts and bruises. He later admitted to the police that he meant to kill himself.

    I however doubt a Tesla owner who knows how safe these cars have proven to be so far would risk trying to commit suicide in one and possibly failing. So I choose to believe he must've had a stroke or something before the accident.

    But I also realize we will probably not know what really happened unless either some note is found or an autopsy, if done, reveals a medical cause.
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  • Sep 9, 2016
    EVie'sDad
    Just a tad bit more objectivity.

    Does every fatal Tesla crash merit headlines and investigations?

    http://flip.it/TcyAAt
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  • Sep 11, 2016
    ggnykk
    The video clearly shows that this is a 85D, which means it does have Autopilot hardware. I really hope this accident wasn't caused by Autopilot.
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  • Sep 11, 2016
    nwdiver
    Tesla confirmed that Autopilot was NOT active.
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  • Sep 11, 2016
    ggnykk
    Yup, most cars are not designed for tree crashes. Only some of the new cars built in the last 2 years or so comply with US's IIHS small front overlap crash, which is meant for simulating crashing with trees and poles.
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  • Sep 11, 2016
    ggnykk
    good to know. thanks
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