teslamotorclub: Charging problem after FW 4.3? Or a faulty UMC? part 1

Short Version:
My car wasn't charging. SKip ahead. I go to fellow owner's place whose charging was error free. After trouble shooting my problem with his 14-50 and his chord, we try his car with my chord and then his car with his chord. Now neither car will charge.

Long Version:
i picked up my car Weds, 3/13. I get home to discover my 14-50 adapter doesnt fit my 240v outlet. I realize my electrician installed a 6-50 by mistake (5 months ago). I successfully charge on my 110 overnight. Next day I drive to a resort 80 miles away. While at the resort I charge successfully on a level one chargepoint charger. Note, however, after not seeing range increase, I contact TM. They push 4.3 to me, and charging is now reflected in range. Today, 3/16 I drive home. Electrician has since replaced 6-50 with 14-50. When I plug in, display registers 248 volts, but 0 amps. After a few tries, I call TM and we do resets and troubleshoots. I try 110 and get similar failure with plenty of volts but 0 amps and zero range improvement. On both 240 and 110, after the diplay gets hung up a while "calculating" it gives an error message and says not charging, unplug and try again. TM opens ticket with plan to take car and mobile connector chord in on Monday. I go to nearby level 2 station. Car successfully charges on 30 amps. Next step, attempt isolation of the chord (the level 2 has its own chord). I go to fellow owner's house. We try his chord on my car in his 14-50 and get same failure. We try my chord in his 14-50 and his car. Same result. To close the loop, we try his chord in his 14-50 and his car. Now, he gets the same failure as me. Note, he's had his car about 6 weeks and always successfully charged on his 14-50, except when he did't yet have a 240, and he used his 110. We follow-up his chord failure in the 240 with a similar failure in his 110. I appologize profusely, we call TM, and we're told they have no idea, plan on bringing the cars in. Fast forward, my car is now charging on the level 2.

Anyone hear of similar problems? Any ideas what bizarro thing has happend?
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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

Anyone hear of similar problems? Any ideas what bizarro thing has happend?
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The UMC is pretty simple; it has a contactor that turns on the high power to your car, and then a low-power circuit tied to the front end of the contactor that does ground fault testing and manages the pilot signal. I suppose there is a remote chance that you have a failure that could destroy the UMC - if, for example, your supercharger contactor in the car were locked shut and 360V DC were applied to the car's terminals, then the car signaled on the pilot pins for the UMC contactor to close which would have exposed the UMC logic board to the high voltage DC. But I imagine if that happened you'd experience some additional side effects, like a good number of appliances blowing up in your home.

I haven't read anything similar.
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Update: after starting to charge at 30a last night (on the public/level 2), it stopped. It was giving 12v warnings and said car needs service. I'm now seeing similarities with other cars that reported lifeless conditions. However, it still seems a bit too coincidental that owner/friend 2 experienced my same failure to register charge immediately after using my UMC. FWIW, nearby owner/friend 3 is now reporting similar problems. All 3 cars are in the same town, all 3 recently downloaded 4.3, 2 and 3 couldnt charge at all after 4.3, i could charge on a level 1, but had problems when I went to my home 240 the problem occurred. Mine is a 60, no 2 is an 85, about 6 wks older, and no.1 is a signature thats at least 4 months old.
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Wait, the "all three recently downloaded 4.3" is certainly nontrivial!
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JakeP - agreed, but I was able to charge on 110 post 4.3, and all cars are still driveable unlike some other post 4.3 probs being reported.
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Is it too early to issue an APB on 4.3 on the main Firmware 4.3 thread for forum members to hold off on updating to it?

I haven't received an update notification yet but, have no intention to update from a very stable 4.2.

It's tricky though if no one updates to it; Tesla may not even be able to find out such issues in the real world if no one - atleast vocal TMC members - takes up the update.
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I don't think anyone has reported something like this with 4.3 yet so looks to be a good update. Not sure what is going on here but if you feel holding off on the update would be wise, no harm in that. Always better to do the update at home and preferably early in the week so can get help if something happens.
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Does anyone have any information (contacts, or otherwise) on Tesla's beta testing program?

Thanks.
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gg_got_a_tesla said: ?

Is it too early to issue an APB on 4.3 on the main Firmware 4.3 thread for forum members to hold off on updating to it?

I haven't received an update notification yet but, have no intention to update from a very stable 4.2.

It's tricky though if no one updates to it; Tesla may not even be able to find out such issues in the real world if no one - atleast vocal TMC members - takes up the update.
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+1. Funny, I've been checking my 17" screen for the past few days waiting for the update notification. Now glad I haven't received it or updated with 4.3.
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I find this very interesting, as my car has been at a detailers shop all week. It was running low on charge, so they plugged into their NEMA 6-50 welder's plug, and the UMC and the charging ring showed red. I have charged successfully on 6-50 before, but I usually charge on a 14-50 at home. I thought something was odd with their plug, maybe the breaker was tripped...we switched to the 110V, all went green, and it topped off just fine overnight. I don't know if 4.3 was installed during the stay at the shop or not, but that is the first thing I will check when I pick it up this afternoon.
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For what it's worth, I haven't had any problems with 4.3 and charging.
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I wonder if there was something in your cord that damaged the car, or vice versa.

Irrelevant anecdote: Back in about 1976, I was funding my way through university as a 4pm-midnight shift operator on an IBM 360. The disk drives on this were the size of washing machines, and had removable packs that had 10 platters and held about 80MB if I remember correctly. Anyway, one day just before our shift started, apparently one of them made a screeching noise, and stopped working, so the day operators scratched their heads, and one of them said something like "I wonder if the pack is OK?". So they moved the pack to another drive, which promptly made screeching noises. "Oh, it's a bad pack!" they said, and put a good pack into that drive, which then made screeching noises. This confused them, so they tried again, with putting the pack that had been working, into yet another drive, which made screeching noises. By the time the knuckleheads were finished and we (the much smarter night shift ;-) ) arrived, we explained to them about head crashes. Unfortunately, there were only about 15 IBM 360s in Australia at the time, and it never occurred to IBM that they might need 4 new sets of heads for 2314 (? I think) drives simultaneously. They only had 3 spare sets in the country.
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FlasherZ said: ?

For what it's worth, I haven't had any problems with 4.3 and charging.
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I would reply directly but I don't have enough wood in my back yard (despite several trees) to knock on quickly and thoroughly enough to feel comfortable doing so.

But I will say this: my replacement HPWC has worked properly at 70A so far with both 4.2 and 4.3 firmware.
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I just picked up the car and I am still on 4.2, so my issue with the 6-50 is likely an unrelated coincidence. I noticed their plug said 50A / 250V, whereas the 6-50 adapter is marked 208-240V. Perhaps that discrepancy made the UMC flash red? Or maybe their breaker was tripped?
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JakeP said: ?

I just picked up the car and I am still on 4.2, so my issue with the 6-50 is likely an unrelated coincidence. I noticed their plug said 50A / 250V, whereas the 6-50 adapter is marked 208-240V. Perhaps that discrepancy made the UMC flash red? Or maybe their breaker was tripped?
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No, this is normal. Plugs and receptacles are typically rated up to 250V, while devices are rated at the voltage they are supposed to run at. The UMC wouldn't show red if breaker was tripped.
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Thanks FlasherZ....I wondered what caused the red indicator for this receptacle then. Perhaps faulty wiring, and the UMC detected it?
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JakeP said: ?

Thanks FlasherZ....I wondered what caused the red indicator for this receptacle then. Perhaps faulty wiring, and the UMC detected it?
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One of the problems with producing equipment that is fully compliant with the latest standards (NEC in this case) is that using them with equipment that is not fully compliant causes them to complain.
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Update - charged at 30amps at a different public charging station today, but no luck charging at home on either 240 or 110 (on UMC).
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JakeP said: ?

Thanks FlasherZ....I wondered what caused the red indicator for this receptacle then. Perhaps faulty wiring, and the UMC detected it?
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The most common red-light cause with the UMC is a ground fault / bad ground. You should check the ground connection for the receptacle. The UMC tests to ensure that there is voltage potential between L1 and ground; and if there is not, it will provide a red-light error. The car will report "cycle wall power".

If you are getting a red light on both 120V and 240V - different receptacles on different circuits - it seems your UMC may have gone bad. You may want to try carrying your UMC to another outlet somewhere on the other side of the house to see if it lights up green there.
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It has happened to me now as well. I have to take the car into the svc center tomorrow. Not too happy about this.
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FlasherZ said: ?

The most common red-light cause with the UMC is a ground fault / bad ground. You should check the ground connection for the receptacle. The UMC tests to ensure that there is voltage potential between L1 and ground; and if there is not, it will provide a red-light error. The car will report "cycle wall power".

If you are getting a red light on both 120V and 240V - different receptacles on different circuits - it seems your UMC may have gone bad. You may want to try carrying your UMC to another outlet somewhere on the other side of the house to see if it lights up green there.
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But, the UMC lights up green on all outlets. The car reads plenty of volts, but it receives 0 Amps. As for trying another outlet, bear in mind that the downward spiral began by trying my charger in my friends outlet.

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elecblue said: ?

It has happened to me now as well. I have to take the car into the svc center tomorrow. Not too happy about this.
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So, this is 4 of us in the Chicago area with cars that won't charge off the UMC? Elecblue - are you also post 4.3?
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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

Update - charged at 30amps at a different public charging station today, but no luck charging at home on either 240 or 110 (on UMC).
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It might be your home.

Got a good electrician?
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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

But, the UMC lights up green on all outlets. The car reads plenty of volts, but it receives 0 Amps. As for trying another outlet, bear in mind that the downward spiral began by trying my charger in my friends outlet.
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If the car is reading voltage, that means the contactor in the UMC has closed and is supplying the AC power to the car. Presumably, but not guaranteed, it means the UMC is working because the car is seeing its pilot signal and the UMC is responding to the command from the car to close the contactor. Watch the screen carefully just after plugging it in - does the car ever attempt to leave 0 amps? Does the screen show a maximum amps, i.e., "0/40 A" ? Does it seem correct?

Let's be careful with the terminology - the UMC or the charger? Charger's in the car, the UMC just "turns on" power to the cable attached to the car. If the car shows voltage, the UMC has done its job. It is very possible that there was a charger malfunction in one of the two cars could have harmed the UMC (as mentioned earlier, there is a remote possibility the SC contactor could blow up something, but I don't know the entire system enough to determine how likely that is).
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FlasherZ said: ?

If the car is reading voltage, that means the contactor in the UMC has closed and is supplying the AC power to the car. Presumably, but not guaranteed, it means the UMC is working because the car is seeing its pilot signal and the UMC is responding to the command from the car to close the contactor. Watch the screen carefully just after plugging it in - does the car ever attempt to leave 0 amps? Does the screen show a maximum amps, i.e., "0/40 A" ? Does it seem correct?

Let's be careful with the terminology - the UMC or the charger? Charger's in the car, the UMC just "turns on" power to the cable attached to the car. If the car shows voltage, the UMC has done its job. It is very possible that there was a charger malfunction in one of the two cars could have harmed the UMC (as mentioned earlier, there is a remote possibility the SC contactor could blow up something, but I don't know the entire system enough to determine how likely that is).
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FlasherZ - I think you're on to something, and please excuse my ignorance on terminology. Although I've done my best to keep up through the forums, I only took delivery 5 days ago. So, the real learning is just begining. So, upon plugging in to the 240 and/or 110, the volts immediately show up on the screen along with 0/40 amps or 0/12 amps, respectively. We then go through a few cycles of the "charge" cycling down to zero volts and back up (down to 0, up to 248/114, respectively). Then, it goes red and provides the error message (not charging, unplug and try again). Because I was able to charge on the 110 even after I downloaded 4.3 and no longer can, I believe that a bug in 4.3 fouled the chord/UMC and it became activated after I attempted to charge off the 240 for the first time. This is consistent with the 3 others who began having charging difficulty after downloading 4.3, and with the fact that we all seem to be able to charge on public/level 2 stations.

Anyway, I dropped the car at the Chicago Service Station first thing this morning. They are aware of the problem and the cars affected. Hopefully we'll be back to normal soon. Even if that means I go back to 4.2 while they drill down on the software bug that's fine by me. I'll be surprised if I don't end up with a new chord/UMC - black thing that plugs into the wall (FlasherZ : ) ). I'll be sure to report the resolution.
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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

FlasherZ - I think you're on to something, and please excuse my ignorance on terminology. Although I've done my best to keep up through the forums, I only took delivery 5 days ago. So, the real learning is just begining. So, upon plugging in to the 240 and/or 110, the volts immediately show up on the screen along with 0/40 amps or 0/12 amps, respectively. We then go through a few cycles of the "charge" cycling down to zero volts and back up (down to 0, up to 248/114, respectively). Then, it goes red and provides the error message (not charging, unplug and try again). Because I was able to charge on the 110 even after I downloaded 4.3 and no longer can, I believe that a bug in 4.3 fouled the chord/UMC and it became activated after I attempted to charge off the 240 for the first time. This is consistent with the 3 others who began having charging difficulty after downloading 4.3, and with the fact that we all seem to be able to charge on public/level 2 stations.

Anyway, I dropped the car at the Chicago Service Station first thing this morning. They are aware of the problem and the cars affected. Hopefully we'll be back to normal soon. Even if that means I go back to 4.2 while they drill down on the software bug that's fine by me. I'll be surprised if I don't end up with a new chord/UMC - black thing that plugs into the wall (FlasherZ : ) ). I'll be sure to report the resolution.
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No worries about the terminology, it just helps me keep things straight.

I'm still not sure it's the UMC. In your case, the pilot signal is working because the car distinguishes between 120V and 240V adapters (showing you 12A or 40A, respectively), and the contactor is working because the car sees the voltage from the UMC.

I suppose there could be a strange corner-case failure where the UMC's current-sense / ground fault detection is failing, but from the behavior you describe, it certainly sounds like the chargers in the car may be having some type of a problem. At least that's where I would be looking first.

Keep us informed.
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I edited the title for clarity; doesn't sound like there's any sort of virus. I'm going to add a link in the FW4.3 thread also.

Personally, I suspect that a faulty UMC has caused the problem. Either that or there's an issue in the Chicago area.

Data point: I've been charging with no problem on HWPC with FW 4.3.
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Chicago SC just called. They say I had a bad mobile connector and that its charging fine on the new one (as I confirmed on the app). For now, they think its just a coincidence that owner 2 had similar problems after I came around with my charger and owners 3 and electricblue are also having problems after downloading 4.3. That's a bit much to swallow, but if I can charge fine at home with my new connector, I'll have to be content to leave this to the experts.
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Glad you got your problem resolved. Do let us know what happens with your buddy's car. I'd like to at least hear from ElecBlue before updating the thread title again.
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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

Chicago SC just called. They say I had a bad mobile connector and that its charging fine on the new one (as I confirmed on the app). For now, they think its just a coincidence that owner 2 had similar problems after I came around with my charger and owners 3 and electricblue are also having problems after downloading 4.3. That's a bit much to swallow, but if I can charge fine at home with my new connector, I'll have to be content to leave this to the experts.
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Great to hear. Guessing there was a problem with the ground and your car detected the fault and refused to charge as a result. Good to hear you're back up and running.
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Update - after a bit of charging at the Chicago Service Center, they got the dreaded red light and some error messages. Enterprise is on the way to me. No resolution expected tonight.
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FlasherZ said: ?

The most common red-light cause with the UMC is a ground fault / bad ground. You should check the ground connection for the receptacle. The UMC tests to ensure that there is voltage potential between L1 and ground; and if there is not, it will provide a red-light error. The car will report "cycle wall power".

If you are getting a red light on both 120V and 240V - different receptacles on different circuits - it seems your UMC may have gone bad. You may want to try carrying your UMC to another outlet somewhere on the other side of the house to see if it lights up green there.
Click to expand...

Thanks FlasherZ, I will pass this on to the shop that housed the NEMA 6-50. We were able to charge with my UMC just fine from a 120V on a different wall. It may be that receptacle has a bad ground.

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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

Update - after a bit of charging at the Chicago Service Center, they got the dreaded red light and some error messages. Enterprise is on the way to me. No resolution expected tonight.
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Sorry to hear this AF1, that is a total bummer. Hope they find the cause and a solution for you quickly.
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JakeP said: ?

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Sorry to hear this AF1, that is a total bummer. Hope they find the cause and a solution for you quickly.
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From your fingers to the SC's ears. They called back a short time later. After all the drama, they say it was just a bad connection at the charge port. Unfortunately, due to meetings, I won't be home until about 9pm, but I'll plug right in and look for that comforting green light. If I made a reference to Gatsby here would anyone get it?
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Update - still not charging at home. Worked fine at SC. Worked fine charging off public level 2, but having exact same problem on both 240 and 110 at home as described earlier. Back to SC in the morning.
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Man, I feel bad for you. I hope they figure out the bug for you soon. I'm glad I haven't had to travel down there yet...
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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

Update - still not charging at home. Worked fine at SC. Worked fine charging off public level 2, but having exact same problem on both 240 and 110 at home as described earlier. Back to SC in the morning.
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Have you checked your reciptacles for a grounding/voltage problem?
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Ihaven't followed the thread very closely. but this is beginning to sound like an issue with your outlet?
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Just got off phone with elecBlue ... we are wondering ... everyone with this problem ... what voltage are you getting?

At my house I am starting at 250. Then it drops to about 245. As is elecblue.
At the Chicago SC, they were only pulling 240. Could it be overvoltage and 4.3?
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Getting the same problem here. Ok at SC but nada here. Tried 6 different outlets at home. Tested the grounds - they are all fine. Will try other places tomorrow night. Charged today at a public charging station but that can't last forever. This problem has to be solved.
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sp4rk said: ?

Just got off phone with elecBlue ... we are wondering ... everyone with this problem ... what voltage are you getting?

At my house I am starting at 250. Then it drops to about 245. As is elecblue.
At the Chicago SC, they were only pulling 240. Could it be overvoltage and 4.3?
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250V is fine. I start somewhere between 248-250V unloaded and under load it drops to 245V.
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FlasherZ - are you running 4.2 or 4.3?
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We think we may have figured this out. As readers may know, Owners 1, 2, elecblue, and me are all having similar issues, all have 4.3 and all live relatively close to each other. We've all been able to charge somewhere but not at home. Owner 3 has no problems. Owner 3 knows a little about electricity and residential grids. He hypothesizes that something in our grid is incompatible with 4.3 (as far as the charger is concerned). Owner 3 is on 4.2. Owner 3 comes to both Owner 2's house and my house with his 4.2 car and charges without any problems. I drive to his place and I charge on his 240 outlet without any problems. Thus, proving out the hypothesis, it would seem. As soon as I can reach TM/Freemont, I'm stepping down to 4.2. Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone should decline 4.3, but it just might not be compatible for all. I'll write back tomorrow night when I am able to try plugging in at home after going back to 4.2.
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Very interesting. Wonder what the issue can be. Hopefully, your hypothesis is right.

That said, I'm not aware of anyone ever stepping down a firmware version. I would think it can be done, but dont recall anyone doing that ever.
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Well, elecblue will come by my house tomorrow eve to test charging ... alfafoxtrot, you are invited too if need be.

If elecblue can charge here, then what else could it be but an incompatibility between his power line and mine under 4.3 as I am doing fine under 4.2.

What, FlasherZ would be peculiar to the final transformers? Mine is ground mounted, elecblue is pole mounted. Maybe same comed windings in their step down transformers? Not good sine wave?

Anyone else in Illinois using 4.3 and charging fine on 14-50 or HPWC from a residence?
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Ow. There's some deep change in 4.3 if it's started rejecting electrical current which is accepted by 4.2.

It would be wise of Tesla to go out with an electrical engineer and investigate the state of the electrical supply at your houses to figure out what is weird about it. I know that there are different grounding systems in use in different neighborhoods; that could have something to do with it.
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sp4rk said: ?

Well, elecblue will come by my house tomorrow eve to test charging ... alfafoxtrot, you are invited too if need be.

If elecblue can charge here, then what else could it be but an incompatibility between his power line and mine under 4.3 as I am doing fine under 4.2.

What, FlasherZ would be peculiar to the final transformers? Mine is ground mounted, elecblue is pole mounted. Maybe same comed windings in their step down transformers? Not good sine wave?

Anyone else in Illinois using 4.3 and charging fine on 14-50 or HPWC from a residence?
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Perhaps they upped the sensitivity to power fluctuations... do you have UPS units? Do any of them go to battery more frequently than they should, even temporarily?

Across multiple transformers, it would be rare - that would be more of a power source problem on the primary side (at the generation facility or in distribution) if it was the cause. You could always call the power company and tell them you know of several cars in the area that are refusing to charge, but that's not a problem elsewhere, and see if they'll come put a monitor on your power to look at voltage and frequency fluctuations.
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I know I have no UPS on the car circuit. (I have a lot of UPS elsewhere. I also have POIP stuff. (Power over Internet or is it Internet over power?). But again not on this leg.

Does elecblue in his house? No idea.

As for primary windings, elecblue and I live 20 miles apart and do not know the power source of either of our houses.
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Ok, elecblue came by this eve. No problems charging at my house using either his cord or mine.

Apparently, someone else with the problem had it fixed magically. Forget whom or how.

But there's still 3 or 4 people suffering. I've no idea. Nor do I have skill sets that would lead to a good diagnosis!
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sp4rk said: ?

Ok, elecblue came by this eve. No problems charging at my house using either his cord or mine.

Apparently, someone else with the problem had it fixed magically. Forget whom or how.

But there's still 3 or 4 people suffering. I've no idea. Nor do I have skill sets that would lead to a good diagnosis!
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And the 3 or 4 ppl are located in the same place? Where?
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Yes, we are all in the Chicago metro area. One of the parties in question got downgraded to 4.2 earlier today and it seemed to solve the problem. The rest of us are waiting for the downgrade. TM will need to figure out what is wrong before they push out 4.3 nationally.
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elecblue said: ?

Yes, we are all in the Chicago metro area. One of the parties in question got downgraded to 4.2 earlier today and it seemed to solve the problem. The rest of us are waiting for the downgrade. TM will need to figure out what is wrong before they push out 4.3 nationally.
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Saga. Thanks for taking the bullet for us. Glad I lost lottery for 4.3 position.
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Yes, as elecblue reports, we seem to be on the horizon of a temporary fix. Unfortunately, I'm headed out of town and don't know when 4.2 will be pushed to me and/or when I can confirm the fix by plugging in at home. Still, owner 2 was downgraded to 4.2 and can now charge at home. Since many others appear to be operating fine on 4.3, we continue to believe that there is something incompatible between 4.3 and our local electric service. What that could be is a bit of a mystery, but our people are on it.
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So I have one thought, but it's a bit odd. What if the commonality is not your power source, but your timezone, or a combination of timezone and geo location. 4.3 introduced scheduled charging. We've already seen two instances of timezone bugs on the MS: phone logs, and the change over to daylight savings time. Your cars are seeing voltage, but are not drawing current, right? Perhaps the bug is an edge case in the scheduling code introduced in 4.3.

Reading backwards a bit more, I see that using pubic chargers worked. So that busts my theory, I think. Plus if geo location was tied to it, I would expect to see more cases of this, but then again we don't know how many people have received 4.3, or if there is another trigger that only the 4 of you have managed to hit.
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Adrewket - you have to also consider that we charge fine on the spectrum of residential outlets outside our grid, in addition to the public charging stations. Its a very localized issue. We have many cars in the broad Chicago area, but only those of us within close proximity to each other in the nw burbs have this issue (so far).
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elecblue uses solar panels, how many suffering from this are using both 4.3 and have solar panels on their house?
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Not i and I don't think owner 1 does either.
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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

Not i and I don't think owner 1 does either.
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i have a grid-tie system and zero issues charging for me. any grid-tie inverter that is nec spec'd (any one that would therefore be passable by the electric co inspection which is required in grid-tie installs) will be matching voltage and frequency to the line anyway by definition, it wouldn't work otherwise, and so would not be (should not be) a factor here. although a reasonable question if the facts lead in that direction.
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Sounds like a power quality sensitivity that was introduced in 4.3. I'd be curious to see a power quality report from one of the high-quality analyzers. Many power companies will come out with very sophisticated equipment if you call and report an issue, and can demonstrate to them the car is refusing to charge.

I'd like Tesla to put greater detail into error messages (or at least give us access, as I understand there is detail but you need SuperSecurePasswordMode to see)... If the car reported it stopped charging due to voltage fluctuation, or frequency fluctuation, or whatever...
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Isn't all of this just that scheduled charging is turned on?

andrewket said: ?

So I have one thought, but it's a bit odd. What if the commonality is not your power source, but your timezone, or a combination of timezone and geo location. 4.3 introduced scheduled charging. We've already seen two instances of timezone bugs on the MS: phone logs, and the change over to daylight savings time. Your cars are seeing voltage, but are not drawing current, right? Perhaps the bug is an edge case in the scheduling code introduced in 4.3.

Reading backwards a bit more, I see that using pubic chargers worked. So that busts my theory, I think. Plus if geo location was tied to it, I would expect to see more cases of this, but then again we don't know how many people have received 4.3, or if there is another trigger that only the 4 of you have managed to hit.
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Isn't all of this just that scheduled charging is turned on? I thought I read somewhere that the car uses GPS to know where to enable scheduled charging and uses immediate charging everywhere else. When you plug it at home it doesn't start immediately (0 amps) it waits for the time. This would also explain why public charging works... It would explain why other people could charge at OP's house. Not sure if I'm clear enough on all the other scenarios to know if it explains everything though

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ahaer said: ?

Isn't all of this just that scheduled charging is turned on?
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Also explains why 4.2 downgrade fixes things (it turns of scheduled charging)
Also explains why some 4.3 users are not seeing problems (they have scheduled charging turned off)

If all that is true the real bug is the some cars are enabling scheduled charging without the owners knowledge when they get the 4.3 update. My guess at the actual error is that they weren't properly initializing the new variables that hold the scheduled charging parameters during the 4.3 update.
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Ahaer, scheduled charging is a simple toggle on and off. We all mastered it without much struggle. The effected owners charge fine outside our homes, including residential outlets outside our service area. We're fairly convinced the culprit is a sensitivity in 4.3 that doesn't like our service. A patch will be implimented with toned down sensitivity.
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ahaer said: ?

Isn't all of this just that scheduled charging is turned on? I thought I read somewhere that the car uses GPS to know where to enable scheduled charging and uses immediate charging everywhere else. When you plug it at home it doesn't start immediately (0 amps) it waits for the time. This would also explain why public charging works... It would explain why other people could charge at OP's house. Not sure if I'm clear enough on all the other scenarios to know if it explains everything though

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Also explains why 4.2 downgrade fixes things (it turns of scheduled charging)
Also explains why some 4.3 users are not seeing problems (they have scheduled charging turned off)

If all that is true the real bug is the some cars are enabling scheduled charging without the owners knowledge when they get the 4.3 update. My guess at the actual error is that they weren't properly initializing the new variables that hold the scheduled charging parameters during the 4.3 update.
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Sometimes the simplest answer is right. I'll look forward to actual resolution info if TM shares with us. I'm betting on this. Easier to believe charge start time meta data corrupt on some cars when we KNOW that scheduled charging was the major change; simpler than hypothesis of dialed up current sensitivity.

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Alfafoxtrot1 said: ?

Ahaer, scheduled charging is a simple toggle on and off. We all mastered it without much struggle. The effected owners charge fine outside our homes, including residential outlets outside our service area. We're fairly convinced the culprit is a sensitivity in 4.3 that doesn't like our service. A patch will be implimented with toned down sensitivity.
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i don't think ahaer is saying you did anything wrong but that somehow charge time meta data corrupt on some cars due to bug. This is totally plausible.
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tomas, I understand your logic. But why then would elecblue be unable to charge at his, then come to mine, be able to charge fine at my house and when he got home an hour later could not. (Unless of course the metadata in his cars database says 10pm or some such?) We all wait TM's briefing!
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tomas said: ?

Sometimes the simplest answer is right. I'll look forward to actual resolution info if TM shares with us. I'm betting on this. Easier to believe charge start time meta data corrupt on some cars when we KNOW that scheduled charging was the major change; simpler than hypothesis of dialed up current sensitivity.
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I disagree, based on the symptoms noted. The charge ring turning red with "cycle wall power", and the fact that the car attempts to charge (reports voltage and starts to increase the # of amps) points to something in charge monitoring. But we will see, hopefully we see a resolution for these guys soon.
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sp4rk said: ?

tomas, I understand your logic. But why then would elecblue be unable to charge at his, then come to mine, be able to charge fine at my house and when he got home an hour later could not. (Unless of course the metadata in his cars database says 10pm or some such?) We all wait TM's briefing!
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It would fail in one place and succeed in another assuming scheduled charging is location dependent per GPS, which I thought was the case. Not even trying to use scheduled charging at "foreign" location, and therefore not failing. But, Flasher makes a good point in post below you about red ring being a strong clue for a current problem, so I'm going to stop guessing... you guys are much closer to the reality. If a circle of geeks is ever needed to intuitively think through a technical problem, this forum is astoundingly helpful!
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Ahaer, sorry if I misunderstood.
tomas, I generally agree that looking for the simpliest answers is a good approach, but you need to line up the data. For example, the inability to charge in these cases begins with the car reading the volts, showing zero amps, cycling down to zero volts, spooling up again, still showing zero amps,then going red. Yet, working fine on other outlets. Anyway, the TM engineers pushed out a revised 4.3 to one of the effected cars, and problem appears solved. I'm out of town now and can't verify the fix on my car.
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sp4rk said: ?

tomas, I understand your logic. But why then would elecblue be unable to charge at his, then come to mine, be able to charge fine at my house and when he got home an hour later could not. (Unless of course the metadata in his cars database says 10pm or some such?) We all wait TM's briefing!
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Because scheduled charging uses GPS so that you can have different schedules based on location. I think my odd theory may end up correct. Blocking the GPS antenna while not at home and then trying to charge at home would be an interesting test.
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I hope the fix is rolled out soon.

Today I tried to charge my car with both my UMC and a friend's UMC, using his NEMA 14-50. He lives less than 1 mile away. No dice. Car will not charge. He was told that 4.3 has been halted, so he didn't get it.

At some point soon this needs to be resolved.
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elecblue, I have no idea about any of this GPS scheduled charging in 4.3 but is it possible that you are able to charge downtown because the GPS antenna is being blocked? You mentioned to me that you were "several" stories underground? Fishin' for clues!
Forget this post ... rubbish. As in, why would you be able to charge up here, then? Don't buy into charging schedule theory.
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So my car was charging fine on the new UMC the Chicago service gave me last night on the original 4.3 firmware. I updated the 4.3 revision this morning - now it's not charging again. In fact, I'm getting 3 error messages. Car requires service, charge plug not working, and connector requires attention (cycle wall power). I even asked for them to push me the old 4.3 version (they won't/can't). Maybe my old UMC will work but that doesn't make really make sense either. Strange. They're going to check the logs from this morning and get back to me in the afternoon.

Anyway, looks like I'm headed back to visit with the nice folks at the Service Center. Fortunately, I'm close by.

BTW, I never turned the scheduled charging on since I don't need it.
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Has anyone checked the power at your home?? It sounds to me like this is not an issue with the car, but possibly an issue with frequency, voltage spikes, that may not be allowing you to charge properly. I had an issue like this with roadsters at my home that were not able to charge. After calling PGE they found that a co-generation plant nearby was putting spikes into the grid at certain times. Every time their generator was throwing spikes nobody was able to charge. Sounds like a similiar issue to me. To diagnose the problem PGE put a monitor on my meter for several days before they found the source. They forced the co-generation plant to shut down until they could clean up their generator.

This makes total sense as other areas of the country are not affected.
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Lloyd said: ?

Has anyone checked the power at your home?? It sounds to me like this is not an issue with the car, but possibly an issue with frequency, voltage spikes, that may not be allowing you to charge properly. I had an issue like this with roadsters at my home that were not able to charge. After calling PGE they found that a co-generation plant nearby was putting spikes into the grid at certain times. Every time their generator was throwing spikes nobody was able to charge. Sounds like a similiar issue to me. To diagnose the problem PGE put a monitor on my meter for several days before they found the source. They forced the co-generation plant to shut down until they could clean up their generator.

This makes total sense as other areas of the country are not affected.
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Calling your power company and letting them know it can charge elsewhere but not at your home will usually have them come out and put their expensive power analyzer on your service. They may need to pull your meter to check it to validate that your home isn't causing it.
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IlliniT said: ?

BTW, I never turned the scheduled charging on since I don't need it.
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But have you made sure that it is off? My theory is that the bug is that the setting after upgrading to 4.3 is random and not always off as you would expect...

If its off maybe turn it on and see if you can schedule something 2 minutes in the future???

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That is if the problem is with non-scheduled charging maybe scheduled charging works?

Also another possible software explanation is that the setting may be displaying "off" in the dash but may be a value that is considered on by the actual charging software. Try turning scheduled on, then turn it off.
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Update to the group - TM pushed out the fixed 4.3 to me today, and everything works now. It must have to do with the tolerances in the software for whatever it checks in terms of the electricity. I appreciate all of the help that Chris from the Chicago service center provided.

A couple of notes: Tesla appreciates our input and feedback, including these forums. Essentially we help them diagnose the problem with our ideas and reports. This augments their efforts and leads to a quicker solution for us (customers).

IlliniT - I hope your issue gets resolved. Perhaps you have a cord issue - not sure what it would be about. I think a solution for you will happen soon (gut feel).

For the power spike theory, I don't think that is happening here - otherwise, why would we be able to charge no problem with 4.2?

Anyway there clearly was an issue with the original 4.3 and to some extent it has been fixed (not perfect yet - i.e., IlliniT).
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From ice blue "For the power spike theory, I don't think that is happening here - otherwise, why would we be able to charge no problem with 4.2?"

Like you said the tolerances tightened with4.3 and for whatever reason TBD the power delivered to you no longer meets those tolerances.
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elecblue said: ?

Update to the group - TM pushed out the fixed 4.3 to me today, and everything works now. It must have to do with the tolerances in the software for whatever it checks in terms of the electricity. I appreciate all of the help that Chris from the Chicago service center provided.

A couple of notes: Tesla appreciates our input and feedback, including these forums. Essentially we help them diagnose the problem with our ideas and reports. This augments their efforts and leads to a quicker solution for us (customers).

IlliniT - I hope your issue gets resolved. Perhaps you have a cord issue - not sure what it would be about. I think a solution for you will happen soon (gut feel).

For the power spike theory, I don't think that is happening here - otherwise, why would we be able to charge no problem with 4.2?

Anyway there clearly was an issue with the original 4.3 and to some extent it has been fixed (not perfect yet - i.e., IlliniT).
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Thanks Elecblue. Turns out that when they swapped the UMC, they didn't swap out the adapter. After checking the logs from the morning, they determined that the adapter was likely faulty. They've swapped it out and it charged fine this afternoon. However, when I got back home tonight, I got the cycle wall power message again. I reset the LED part of the connector and it seems to be charging again. Fingers definitely crossed. Interesting thread in any case.
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elecblue said: ?

For the power spike theory, I don't think that is happening here - otherwise, why would we be able to charge no problem with 4.2?
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I have a UPS that simply refused to run off line power when my standby generator was running. After a firmware upgrade, it no longer remained on battery whenever the generator was supplying power.

That can happen in reverse, too.
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Related, but different: I've had my HPWC for about two weeks and notice it first charges with 40A maximum (e.g. 8/40 etc) until reaching close to 40A; then I hear a click of a relay in HPWC and the maximum changes to 80A. No problems just interesting to watch the current step up to 80A in stages.

Tonight I plugged in and noticed the maximum was 16A. Hmm waited about 15 seconds and no step up (plus I never saw a 16A limit before, only 40A). On a hunch I pushed harder on the connector and felt it engage a bit more. Sure enough there was relay click, followed by 40A and a few seconds later 80A maximum.

Moral of the story: it is worth know what "normal" operation is for a given charger setup and spending a few seconds watching that you are operating "normally". If not, check it out so as to not be disappointed the next morning.
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Big thanks to Chris at the Chicago Service Center and the TM engineers. The revised 4.3 was waiting for me when I returned from travelling (Chris had emailed me to let me know this was happening). I've now downloaded it and charging at 40amps at home.
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Having a similar problem tonight trying to charge from my 14-50. Was working fine for over a week, but now shows the same error as others, "unable to charge, please unplug and try again".

Oddly, it is able to charge from my standard 110. I also tried stepping the voltage down and trying again on the 14-50, to no avail.
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webguy said: ?

Having a similar problem tonight trying to charge from my 14-50. Was working fine for over a week, but now shows the same error as others, "unable to charge, please unplug and try again".

Oddly, it is able to charge from my standard 110. I also tried stepping the voltage down and trying again on the 14-50, to no avail.
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I think you meant stepping down the current/amperage?
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I've been having a series of UMC problems (See this thread). Yesterday, I was giving a demo to a friend of mine and found that the charge port would no longer open with the button on the UMC handle, but it would open from the touchscreen. No errors on the UMC, and we even tried power cycling it. If I closed the charge port on the car, after about 30 seconds I'd hear a clunk and it would pop open again on its own! When I plugged the UMC in, I could not get the car to charge (this is the problem I was describing in the above thread), but yesterday I found if I plugged in, then used the fob to lock the car, the port would lock, turn blue, then green and start to charge! I think I left my friend a little dubious about the car's capabilities.

After my friend left, I tried re-booting the center screen (seems to be a fix-all for many problems, but I had never seen it mentioned with respect to charging woes). Well, after that my UMC button again started working to open the port, and the car would charge normally. I am on firmware 4.4, so for those with charging problems, a re-boot may be worth a try.
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Reboot becoming the standard 1st recourse for everything!
Tho I have had no major charging problems (save not being able to remove J1772 adapter once), I think there's a reasonable explanation for dubious friend. It goes like this:

1) Fueling a gasoline powered car is a mechanical process of pumping liquid into a tank. About the only safeguards are standardize pump pressure maximums, and auto shutoff (again pressure based) in filler neck. I know some techie is going to weigh in correcting me on this, but geez that's got to be close!
2) Charging a battery requires a number of software-based safeguards to avoid potential damage to chargers and battery. So, though annoying when they kick in, you want these safeguards.
3) You fuel an electric car differently. MOST OF THE TIME, you use less than "a full tank" every day, and top it off every night. So, MOST OF THE TIME, if the safeguards kick in, you have time (and power) to troubleshoot. I don't know anybody who fuels up their gasoline car every night. It's just different.
5) The primary time where charging issues could cause a substantial impact is long, multi-charge trips. We all know that long distance EV driving requires advance planning, preparation, and spirit of adventure. If you are not up for that, don't do it!
6) The time will come (in the lifetime of this car, I believe) when long distance high-powered charging network is plentiful and software safeguards are well tuned and understood. I remember when auto shutoff was introduced on gas pumps. It used to shut off 10 times in the process of fueling at many pumps, but it's now old science.
7) Then make the guy drive the car, and ask if he's ever experienced anything like it short of a roller coaster. If he doesn't like the car enough to deal with the differences, that's fine it appears there are plenty who do!
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tomas said: ?

3) You fuel an electric car differently. MOST OF THE TIME, you use less than "a full tank" every day, and top it off every night. So, MOST OF THE TIME, if the safeguards kick in, you have time (and power) to troubleshoot. I don't know anybody who fuels up their gasoline car every night. It's just different.
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Fair enough for most people. I have a 100 mile round trip commute, and in the winter, when I get way less than rated range, I would be hard pressed to get to work and back the next day if I couldn't charge overnight at home. (I used to have to fuel my ICE every 3-4 days). With the warmer weather now, I could likely get two days on a charge, but the problem is there are no public transportation options and I have to rely heavily on my car.

The first time I had trouble charging at home, I did get kind of apprehensive, and it was further compounded by my mobile phone carrier not letting my call go through to Tesla's toll-free number for some reason (since resolved). Think of how you would feel in an ICE with the low fuel light on at a gas station, and you can't for the life of you get the gas cap off your car! That's sort of what it felt like. I could plug in (tried dozens of times) but the port light would not change and the touchscreen just kept saying to plug in the cable.

Anyway... re-booting seemed to help, but while Model S has spectacular range for an EV, one is still very dependent on being able to connect and charge on a frequent and regular basis.
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andrewket said: ?

I think you meant stepping down the current/amperage?
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Yes, Amps. Sorry, I posted a bit late/tired
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teslamotorclub

Thứ Hai, 30 tháng 1, 2017

Charging problem after FW 4.3? Or a faulty UMC? part 1

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