Jan 9, 2014
rpavlicek I'm not sure if there is another thread for this ...if so please merge.
For the 60kWh, my understanding is the EPA rated range is 208. This winter when max charging at SCs, the maximum was 202 (California, usually not below freezing).
I've had the car for about 1 year. Did I lose 3% on my battery or are these numbers due to colder weather (or some other factor?). What is the expected rate of loss over time?�
Jan 9, 2014
jerry33 There are several things to consider:
1. Tesla changes the behaviour of the battery gauge frequently.
2. If the battery is unbalanced it will show lower SOC than it really has.
3. Generic LiIon batteries lose 5% the first year and then 1% every year thereafter.
4. Batteries have less capacity in cold weather.
5. Roadster owners are getting better battery life than was originally expected.
So basically, the answer is: Not enough data to form a conclusion.�
Jan 9, 2014
rpavlicek Thanks for the information!
Question: How does a battery get unbalanced? What can I do (if anything) to rebalance it?�
Jan 9, 2014
glhs272 To balance the pack, do a range charge at 120volts 12amps. Basically a very slow range charge will get the cells back into balance.�
Jan 9, 2014
gaswalla look here
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/18915-Decreasing-rated-range
not sure about he trickle charge suggestion, many folks have said it didn't make a differenc�
Jan 9, 2014
qwk That's because that method requires one to charge that way for quite a long period of time(months), not just one or two times like the people that didn't see any results did.�
Jan 9, 2014
gaswalla from zero, it shouldn't take more than 84 hours.. yes, that is a long time, though.�
Jan 9, 2014
qwk I meant that one full charge on 120V 12A, is not going to balance the pack completely. It takes many months of charging this way to get it to balance. A quicker way is of course complete range charges, but unless you need the range, is an unnecessary strain on your pack.�
Jan 9, 2014
gaswalla yes.. thanks for the clarification... good point about needing many slow, repeated cycles.�
Jan 9, 2014
islandbayy I'm at 19000 miles on my 60kW. Range Charge Yields 204 Miles. I do not baby my pack. I use it as I would any other vehicle. I've range charged 60-70 times since getting the car (No point in not if I'm not going to make it home otherwise). I do not leave it sit at range mode. I do 90% charge daily. If it is going to be a long range kind of day, then I range charge 1 hour before going.
I've had my Model S as of writing this, 7 Months, 2 weeks 8 Hours 54 minutes.
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You did not mention how many miles on your vehicle. As for me, The day it was delivered, my Range charge was 209 miles. Now, one note, I have not let my pack balance recently. Usually, when doing a range charge, it will hang on 5minutes or 1 minute remaining for 20 minutes to a hour. I have not had the luxury of letting it complete that charge. When it does that, that is when the pack is getting balanced. So after some balancing, my range might be even better. I do know I have been draining the crap out of my pack lately. Due to the extreme cold (we hit -30*F Beginning of the week for example) and that taking a toll on range (Heater use, pack warmer, cold weather inefficiencies etc.. but mostly pack warmer and heater use), so my car is most likely really out of balance.
Just dropped it off tonight at Highland Park Service Center due to more water in my tail lights, so my car will finally be out of the cold (It's a driveway car so cold soaked daily), and being nice and warm, I will range charge it their (remote app when the plug er in) and see what I get. Temperature DOES MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE, though, not really until you get below about 32*F is when that difference is noticeable. Example, if my rated range is 204 miles then the car is nice and toasty warm, and I move it outside and let it cold soak, that range will drop down to say, 190, or even have seen as low as 182. But move that car back into a warm heated garage, and watch the range climb back up to 204 as the pack warms from the ambient heat.�
Jan 9, 2014
Iz Thanks for the great information. I also have a 60kW and have only ranged charged about 6 times to 210 miles. The new "Daily Driver" setting only gets to about 170 miles, which may be impacted by weather or the manner in which rated range is presented. Going to have to do a range charge this weekend and see what the results are. Weather is definitely a factor. I've had the vehicle 10+ months and did not use the heat in March or April. This season it is used. Range takes a double blow between heater use and cold temperatures.�
Jan 9, 2014
apacheguy 1. Given that brand new 85's yield >265 miles on a range charge I'm not convinced that the updated range algorithm affects range mode charges. It may have an impact at lower SOC's however.
2. I've been very confused about this. Isn't Tesla's BMS smart enough to auto-balance the pack after all charge sessions regardless of input voltage? Having a pack out of balance is bad for a number of reasons and Tesla has never recommended that I charge at 120 so it must not be an issue for their BMS.
Data point: 100% SOC yields 244 rated miles with 22K.�
Jan 9, 2014
Apoclyps Hrmmmm. When I first got my car, I was able to Range Charge to 206 rated miles. Recently took a road trip using the SCs and was only able to get the car to 199 max.�
Jan 10, 2014
maxbafh The problem I see in the comparison is that the software updates use different algorithms for calculation of the rated range. On the Update between EU 5.4 and 5.8 i lost about 26km of rated range. Full charge on 5.4 showed 525km vs on 5.8 shows only 499km as maximum.�
Jan 10, 2014
jerry33 I'm not sure we have a 100% definitive answer on this.
It does, but it appears that a lower charge rate helps the BMS balance better. I believe the difference is similar to the difference between filling a glass without overflowing from a garden hose as compared to a refrigerator in-door water dispenser. You can get closer to full with out overflowing with the fridge dispenser.�
Jan 10, 2014
qwk If one follows Tesla's instructions to set the car to a standard charge, and plug in whenever the car is not in use, the balancing occurs naturally.�
Jan 10, 2014
yobigd20 *DONT* do this. Trying to range charge at 120v @ 12amps will time a VERY LONG TIME. This means your car will sit at >90% charge for an extended amount of time. This is exactly what you DON'T want to do to your battery, as sitting at MAX or near MAX for an extended period of time is the WORST thing you can to your battery, and will damage it. Just charge like you would normally and let the car balance itself automatically. You can't force it.�
Jan 10, 2014
mknox Just as a data point, I did my first ever Range Charge the other day, and my 85 kWh, 10 month old Model S with 18,000 miles reached 246 Rated Miles. About 6 months ago, when the car had roughly half the number of miles on it, I was doing a Range Charge but had to leave before it completed. It was nearly done and I had achieved 260 Rated Miles. It may have got up to 265 if I had left it until it completed, but I cannot be sure.
I am not sure if this 14 - 19 mile loss is due to battery degradation or whether it has something to do with how the numbers are calculated between different vehicle firmware versions. Since the weather turned cold, I have normally been charging my car to 90% daily and return at the end of the day at about 30%. 90% currently gives me 215 Rated Miles. When the car was new, and I would do a "Standard Charge" I would get 245 Rated Miles.�
Jan 10, 2014
AmpedRealtor No changes have been made to the ideal range algorithm, whereas the rated range algorithm seems to change with every software update. To properly assess battery degradation, you should use ideal range because that calculation hasn't changed.�
Jan 10, 2014
Zextraterrestrial Really? interesting
v 4.0 - 277r = 312i (100%) (dec'12)
v 5.6 - 218r = 254i (90%) (october'13)
v 5.8 - 96r = 110i (47%) (jan '14)�
Jan 10, 2014
DaveVa My experience is very close to yours. My car is now giving me between 205 and 211 miles at 90% (as noted at the time I wake up in the morning after auto-charging at 1:00AM). I have not done any special "balancing charge, just normal charging with a range charge about once a month. It is cold now, so that may be affecting the reading, but I am concerned with the amount of range loss in the first 14 months of operation. I wonder if "B" battery chemistry has a different degradation profile. If things continue on this curve, it will be interesting to find out what is considered normal degradation in terms of the battery warranty.�
Jan 10, 2014
Zextraterrestrial Am at at the same place as you and mknox too w/ same batteries. I am wondering about this too, from the battery survey is seems like the batteries may act/degrade differently�
Jan 10, 2014
qwk I sometimes wonder if the A packs have totally different software, hardware, and degredation profiles. From all of the reports, it sure looks that way.�
Jan 10, 2014
Odenator I think you guys should keep your cars 100% charged (ignore the on screen warning) for several weeks. This is the advice I got from Tesla when I reported my P85 was showing a rated range of 231 miles at 100% charge. I am now at 255 rated miles.�
Jan 10, 2014
Zextraterrestrial Was it similar with the Roadsters? I know there were changes in the PEM and other stuff + there were very few cars built compared to the S. Were there running changes in roadster cars that made it so a car built one day could have something better in it or was this avoided with the 1.5, 2.0 etc? Wasn't there differences in the cooling pumps or something?
It seems that our S' have older cooling pump versions and the have changed this too. but not the actual car version at all.
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cool, might try this
did this change the amount of power used for a given distance vs how much the car reports? not sure that makes sense even
or anything else you could notice? 24 miles is almost 6 kW of power not shown /unbalanced in the 100%calc
each 10% increment shows 8kW when I charge between the 50% and 90% levels�
Jan 10, 2014
qwk So it looks like the A battery has balancing issues at anything under a max charge.�
Jan 10, 2014
Zextraterrestrial did Tesla add individual balancing capability for each cell maybe? this would help the higher charge rate too if they could tell that some cells were full while others weren't on the newer packs - just a random idea�
Jan 10, 2014
qwk I don't know. I don't have much experience with A packs. I can tell you that B packs don't have this problem unless, you never complete your charges,and never leave the car plugged in for 30-60 minutes after the charge stops to balance.�
Jan 10, 2014
mknox That's interesting... and kind of counter to everything I'd been led to believe about caring for the batteries. In the summer, I typically charge to 70% and return at the end of the day around 40%. In the winter, due to the cold, I go from 90% to 30%. I always thought it was best to "play" in the middle range of the battery's capacity rather than going extremely high or extremely low.�
Jan 10, 2014
Zextraterrestrial I have always heard this about Li batteries too for the best longevity.
I used to charge to 90% mostly and now I am doing 60% or 50% during the week and 80%/90 if I plan to go somewhere on weekends.
So is the idea to charge to 100% and not drive it after??+ keep tapping the charge when it drops to 99%.�
Jan 10, 2014
Kipernicus Eventually, I will be forced to spend more and more time at 100%.
Just about 1 year for me, 60kWh, 13.5k miles
last 2 range charges got to 192 rated miles.
90% charge is at 169
I think the highest I ever saw was 203 (when it was brand new there was some software bug that showed max range miles of 197, but it stayed there for a long time once you started driving)�
Jan 10, 2014
mknox I'm starting to see mention of "A Packs" and "B Packs" etc. but must have missed the conversations around what this means. Can someone point me to a thread or information on this? I have no idea what type of pack I have, and wasn't aware that there were any differences.�
Jan 10, 2014
epley The point about Tesla changing how they display the mileage is important. My 90% used to say 245, then it was 240, then 230, now usually says 219. I'll try to rebalance and see what happens, but each of these reductions came immediately after a software update.�
Jan 10, 2014
Zextraterrestrial Battery table - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum
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�
Jan 10, 2014
Odenator Look in the bottom of you front passenger wheel well, behind the tire. The battery label will be there.�
Jan 10, 2014
djp Yes, that's true. Doing a full range charge will bring the pack into balance, but is also hard on the cells.
An out of balance pack will display a lower range number, but isn't permanently degraded. The range can be restored by balancing the pack. Unfortunately the best way to balance the pack has a nasty side effect of degrading the battery!
Personally I wouldn't worry about the range numbers. It's just optics, and doing regular range charges to pump the numbers up will do real damage to your battery.
If you do an occasional range charge whenever you need it, the balancing will take care of itself. And if you're doing extra range charges, at least do them in the winter at low temperatures, not in the heat of summer.�
Jan 10, 2014
mknox Cool. Thanks. Of course that's gonna have to wait for the deep freeze here to end and the giant globs of snow/ice to melt and drop out :smile:�
Jan 10, 2014
SFOTurtle I think this is generally good advice. An occasional range charge followed by immediate discharge shouldn't really be hard on the battery given everything Tesla has told us.�
Jan 10, 2014
Zextraterrestrial I have done this every time I did range charges but there doesn't seem to be much balancing going on based on the numbers. What I wonder is, if you are seeing say 245mi at 100% but if it was balanced it might be 255mi, will the number of miles you can drive, or the kWhr consumed be similar for both? or are there 3kWhr of power added in the balancing? RC 6s packs take a little while to balance for not much power being added at all.�
Jan 10, 2014
lloyds Does anyone know if the actual performance (acceleration) of the car degrades as the battery do?�
Jan 10, 2014
djp To balance quickly you need to let it sit at a range charge and repeat a few times. The balancing "bleeds off" the highest cells and allows the pack to charge higher on the next range charge.
As mentioned, this is pretty much the worst thing you can do for cell degradation, especially in the heat.�
Jan 10, 2014
djp Performance is slightly better at high charge than low charge. As the battery degrades you'll be spending less time at high charge, and it has higher internal resistance, so yes performance will be slightly worse.�
Jan 10, 2014
umuhk I have noticed that a 100% charge takes approximately half an hour longer than it seems like it should; the time-remaining display will sit at "1 minute" for about half an hour when the pack is at 100%. I had always assumed that this was the time during which any pack-balancing activity was going on. You can certainly stop charging when it's at this point, and the pack really is at 100%, but I wonder if proper balancing requires the charge cycle to complete normally.�
Jan 10, 2014
rpavlicek I have around 13k miles.
Another thing I noticed is that I lose 8-9 miles per night. This is with the sleep mode on. (Perhaps I need to reset the computer for it to actually work?).
I'm on the latest version 5.8�
Jan 10, 2014
FredTMC My 60 has over 21k mi now. I get 200mi on a range charge still (100% charge). I went to Vegas earlier in the week and range charged at barstow. I still get around 172 on a standard (90% charge). I'm very satisfied with these results after 20k miles.�
Jan 10, 2014
Todd Burch If you really need all the range, you'll be range charging more frequently, and your pack will be better balanced. If you don't need it, the displayed range doesn't really matter.
I think all these attempts to determine degredation based on the car's indicated range are useless, as everyone has a different pack balance state. Given Tesla's virtual silence on the issue, I think they're quietly trying to tell us to stop worrying about it. Just drive your car!
I also believe that attempts to balance your pack for the mere sake of getting higher range numbers do more damage to your pack than good. Just range charge when you need it, don't when you don't, and have fun!�
Jan 10, 2014
Benjamin Brooks Simple, the battery charge curve is non-linear�
Jan 10, 2014
FatSal Funny I deleted my post because I realized I made one fatal flaw. I mixed different versions of software. I thought I had images all from 5.8, but as you can see my 90% and 100% were earlier from when we couldn't set the charge level from the app. Please ignore my mistake. Thanks.�
Jan 10, 2014
islandbayy You are correct! Another thing that MANY people forget about, is the higher the voltage, the better/higher the efficiency. Less losses due to heat from the resistance in the wiring all the way from the battery right on to the inverter.
It might not make a difference at lower power demand (say, 30kW, or maybe even 60kW), but when you get in to flooring it, that makes one hell of a difference!�
Jan 10, 2014
apacheguy @DaveVa - I am seeing very similar numbers. 212 rated miles at 90% and 244 at 100%. I am also concerned regarding potential differences in the A/B pack degradation profiles.
Not doubting that Tesla gave you this advice, but IMHO this sounds like horrible advice. I would not recommend this.
Oh yeah because nothing could go wrong when we put blind confidence in TM's silence, right? 90 kW supercharge limitation anyone?�
Nov 7, 2014
bwilliams Found this thread via search so not sure if there's more current discussion.
I did my first range charge last week at 6900 total miles. I've had the car for about 9 months. My first range charge gave me 190 miles. I was pretty disappointed and freaked out. Is there anything new information about this? I wish I'd done a range charge once at the beginning to see if it ever had 208 miles! Is this true battery degradation or because I've never "balanced" the battery (something I'm not sure I want to do if it truly degrades the battery)? My typical, daily charge limit is set to about 60%.
�
Nov 7, 2014
islandbayy Do a few range charges. A couple days in a row. Set your charge amperage so that the charge finishes about 1-2 hrs before you plan to leave so it doesn't sit at 100% very long. Do this 2-3 days in a row, you will see a improvement. My original battery had 203 rated after 1 year and 34,000 miles before contactor went.�
Nov 7, 2014
mknox Very odd occurrence today. I have been charging to 90% daily and seen a few miles of Rated Range return, but seem to have plateaued at about 219 or 220 miles. Also what is typical is that if the charge completes sometime in the night, there will be anywhere from 1 to 3 miles less showing in the car than what the app notification shows me. Today, the app notification showed that the charge (to 90%) completed at 5:20 am with 219 Rated miles. When I got into the car at about 7:30 am, the dash was showing 223 miles -- 4 more than when it had completed. That's a first for me.�
Nov 7, 2014
AmpedRealtor Is Range Mode on?�
Nov 7, 2014
mknox Nope. Rarely ever use it.
I did try the trick of flipping it on a while back and saw the range numbers go up a bit, but since the latest version of 6.0 was downloaded, I don't notice it if I try toggling any more. Maybe I'm just not waiting long enough for the change to show up on the screen, but before it was pretty quick and apparent.
Bottom line is that I rarely, if ever, use Range Mode, so my comments here are around using the car with Range Mode off.�
Nov 7, 2014
glhs272 I think the Decreasing Rated Range thread is what your looking for. It's an on going conversation there. I would recommend charging 90% or greater...always. I haven't found any good examples of people "babying" their packs by charging sub 90 and showing range holding very well. On the other hand, people such as me who have been consistently charging to 90% are seeing very little degradation. This leads me to recommend only 90% daily charging full stop, regardless of your daily range needs.�
Nov 7, 2014
TexasEV I charge my 60kWh car to 90% daily, except for the 8-10 times over the past 16 months that I've charged to 100% for a trip. My full charge is 204 miles compared to 208 miles new. I don't consider that a significant loss.�
Nov 7, 2014
bwilliams I'd be very happy with that! You live in a hot climate too, so that says more than owners in cooler climates. It's been very hot in my garage this summer; well over 100 degrees many days/weeks and I've been reluctant to charge to high state of charge. That obviously didn't work or matter.
I just called the service center and the guy told my 10% loss in the first year is expected. Seems that some of you have not experienced this 10% loss ...
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Just curious about how low your state of charge is before you recharge.
I don't drive big distances hence the low miles on my car (with no use of the car due to travel for longish time periods). The guy I just spoke with said I should let the battery get low once in a while and then charge.
�
Nov 7, 2014
ImperialG I've got a 2013 60kWh Model S and my vin is in the 5000's. I hit 42,000 miles this week and my battery charged t0 209 rated miles this week, although that was the first time that I've seen it hit 209 on a full charge.
I'm really in need of a 85kWh battery since my commuting miles have significantly increased since receiving the car in March 2013, so it's very likely that I'm going to start doing a 100% range charge everyday from now on. I've got my fingers crossed that Tesla will offer a battery upgrade when the gigafactory is complete.�
Nov 7, 2014
bwilliams OK, so I'm obviously doing something wrong. Do you live in a hot climate? No matter, good deal for you.
�
Nov 7, 2014
glhs272 I take it you have been consistently charging to 90% or greater? At 42,000 miles and no detectable range loss, I would say that is pretty good. I am at 206 rated miles at 35K miles. I only lost range when I started doing the sub 90% charging. I got most but not all of it back after I stopped doing that. But 206 is only about 1% range loss after 1.5 years and 35K miles, so I am happy. I try to charge twice daily (once at work, once at home) after about 35 miles each way.�
Nov 7, 2014
TexasEV I don't think you "lost range" and "got it back". It's just the car reporting the estimated range more or less accurately.�
Nov 7, 2014
glhs272 I think they recommended running it to a low sate of charge once in a while to reset the battery capacity calculation. Usually I am at about 70% SOC before I start charging again. I am thinking that keeping the depth of charge as small as possible helps. But ImperialG is seeing no capacity loss when doing full depth of charge cycles has me wondering.
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Yeah I suspect is was getting out of balance which does give actual loss of range, but not degradation per say. But the broader point is sub 90% charging = bad.
I would say Tesla saying that 10% capacity loss in the first year is setting the bar really low.�
Nov 7, 2014
mai bwilliams, a couple things can artificially reduce the estimated range (beyond normal degradation) - an out of balance battery and an uncalibrated SoC estimate. Daily charging to 60% will likely bring your battery out of balance. The going theory in the Decreasing Rated Range thread is that the the battery only rebalances when the voltage difference between the strongest cell and weakest cell exceeds some threshold, but at lower SoC levels, the voltage differences are muted. Also, the battery teardown thread revealed only low power rebalancing circuitry, so out-of balance cells will take a long time to rebalance. That's why you should at least occasionally let the car sit at higher SoC level (90%-100%). Charging to 90% daily will minimize the amount of rebalancing needed and will get you some range back.
The range estimate may also need calibration if you don't drive your car from a high SoC to a low SoC once in a while - it can only guess at how the battery voltage will drop as it discharges in use. Driving the car from a high SoC a low SoC will give it more data to give a better estimate as to when it will reach "0" miles (I think this explains why some people can drive their car many miles after the car says 0 miles left, but others cannot).�
Nov 7, 2014
bwilliams Interesting. I only drove the car one time to low soc - and I was sweating it with range anxiety. So, I've only charged it one time to 100% and only 1 time driven to low soc. Both were in the last couple of weeks. I just cringe to think about charging the car when my garage is so hot but my information is probably not correct. I don't doubt that heat is bad (I own a LEAF and have heard plenty of nightmarish stories from LEAF owners who live in hot areas) - that might be where my concern lies. It is supposed to cool down here in San Diego County next week so I'll try the 90% charging then try a full charge again in a couple weeks.
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Maybe setting lower expectations. ?
�
Nov 7, 2014
Xenoilphobe I HPWC (80 AMPS) charge daily to 80% and when new the car would full charge to 264. I never "range" charge. The car at full charge gets 259 miles at 100% charge with >25,000 miles in 11 months of driving. I am ok with this and suspect if I changed to range charge and did another change it would go higher, but frankly I don't need the additional range for my commute.
I have noticed that when i charge with 120v 15AMP (work wall outlet) it seems to lose range faster (not sure if this my uphill commute home from the Potomac River).. but I am sure this plays a role. I don't do that anymore as it is not necessary, and I charge with solar at home, so there is no cost benefit.�
Nov 7, 2014
jerry33 As you probably know, the Leaf doesn't have any active thermal management, so it's not really applicable to the Tesla. The Roadster batteries show a totally random pattern when compared to geographic location (there's a graph in one of the threads), so heat isn't a factor.�
Nov 7, 2014
bwilliams Yes, I realize the tesla has thermal management. I guess that didn't quell the concern about charging in a very hot garage.
I wonder if Tesla is monitoring and data collecting each of us. I'd like to see the data.
�
Nov 7, 2014
Rodolfo Paiz Maybe, though my own data point does not fit that hypothesis. My P85 is 1y7m old, with under 11,000 miles. Since I drive very little, I charge to 72% and then plug in when I see 40% or so. The lowest I've seen in many moons was 75 rated miles left when I plugged in. About 6 times a year, I range-charge to get from Miami to Orlando. A few months ago, a 100% charge was giving me 255 rated miles. But today's range charge yielded 262. Go figure.�
Nov 8, 2014
jerry33 Yes, they collect the data. This is known because if you call in with a problem, the first thing they do is inspect the logs (also you sign a release when you purchase the car to allow them to do so).
As far as the hot garage goes: When it's charging do you hear the fan and a/c going? (It's loud and hard to miss.) Also always charge with range mode off so that the maximum active cooling (heating in the winter) will take place.�
Nov 8, 2014
bwilliams I've never ventured into the garage at midnight (3 hours past my bedtimeand when the cheaper electric rate begins). I trust the thing is working correctly as far as cooling. I'll try a charge during the day to make sure ...
This is the subject of another thread, probably, but what IS going on when I go out to the garage, car NOT charging, but humming away. It's like living with Hal. I'm assuming Tesla is doing something - and this happens far more than when the car is updating software.
�
Nov 8, 2014
jerry33 I doubt Tesla is doing anything, but there are a number of things the car could be doing on it's own, such as cooling the batteries or charging the 12V battery.�
Nov 8, 2014
bwilliams Thanks for the info. I'm sure you're right; especially given the temps here this summer.
�
Nov 10, 2014
F8L It's pretty safe to assume. My Volt does this quite often and even my Plug In Prius used to do it. Garage temps here can get well over 110F.�
Nov 10, 2014
AmpedRealtor If you charge overnight, then time is not an issue. To address your concern, turn down the charging power.�
Nov 10, 2014
islandbayy Along with that, I have found since I stopped charging at full 40 amps every night, I also stopped eating up UMC's. I think they couldn't handle the heat build up day after day. Current UMC is going strong. Usually 30 amps or less. Only if I need range as quick as possible do I use 40 amps now.�
Nov 11, 2014
AmpedRealtor I have had a similar experience with the HPWC. The first year I charged at the full 80A and required two charge cord/handle replacements due to fault. I now keep the HPWC at 60A or less and have not had any issues so far. Everything runs cooler and car does not ramp up its fans when charging under 60A.�
Nov 11, 2014
jerry33 Right. I normally charge at 32/33 amos. I did have an interesting experience on my vacation a couple of weeks ago. Another Tesla owner and I pulled into the RV park at the Winfield, KS fairgrounds at close to the same time. We had both charged at Salina.
- We both set the charge rate to 32 amps.
- The 14-50s were out of the same service panel.
- His car was only a few weeks old, mine is 20 months old.
- I have the new UMC adapter.
His UMC adapter was ice cold after 90 minutes of charging, mine was warm--not overly warm but the difference was striking.�
Nov 11, 2014
freds Hmmm, so we can see our rated capacity go up and down based on the time of the year?�
Nov 11, 2014
TES-E I also charge at 60 amps. Everything stays nice and cool. Charges at 45 mph at that setting.�
Nov 12, 2014
rdrcrmatt
now we need to find info about that runs each on board charger at 30a or if one runs at 40 and the other at 20.�
Nov 13, 2014
simonog The battery capacity should be the same.e. Some of its capacity will, however, be used to isolate it from the ambient temperature.
That's the purpose of the battery's thermal jacket. the battery will take longer to charge as the car has to heat it before it lets it charge.
there will be some loss of range too as more power is used to keep the battery at optimum temperature while it is being discharged.�
Nov 13, 2014
TES-E I remember reading somewhere that anything over 40A was split evenly between the two chargers (30A each in this example). Hopefully someone can jump in that knows for sure.�
Nov 14, 2014
Cottonwood Yes, I do it all the time. I have an HPWC that can put out 80 Amps, but have the car set to 56 Amps to halve all the resistive heat sources. The car ramps up to 28 Amps, pauses, then ramps up to 56 Amps. If I set the car to 40 Amps, it just ramps up to 40 Amps without stopping. Anything over 40 Amps, the car does the half, pause, other half routine. I assume that it is putting half the load on the master charger, making sure everything is normal, then ramping up the slave, dual charger.�
Nov 14, 2014
TES-E I just plugged in my car for the evening, and paid attention to what it did. Charge rate set to 60 amps. Rate slowly ramped up to 30, paused there for what seemed to be about 10 seconds, and then started ramping up again until it reached 60 and stabilized there. Exactly as Cottonwood suggested. I agree with him that this likely represents the load balancing taking place between the two chargers.�
Nov 14, 2014
Lloyd I beleive it is checking the quality of the power under partial load, voltage drop/variations etc. before it ramps up to 100% of the requested rate.�
Jan 8, 2015
deonb Data point:
My car is 23 months old, with 19,278 miles on it.
February 2013 range charge: 257 miles
Today range charge: 257 miles.
Type B battery.
I generally charge to 80% full.�
Jan 9, 2015
FredTMC thats amazing. Zero degradation.
I have 43k miles on my 60kwh. I've lost ~10 miles of rated range. Not complaining. Was 208 new. Now 198�
Jan 9, 2015
castor I don't even know my actual full range or even 90%.
Boring driving for 9 months 30 miles a day.
Charge at 80% at 30A every night
Used to get 204 miles at 80%
After 21K miles I'm at 203 miles at 80%
Range charge twice in a year, I think was 256 miles every time.�
Jan 9, 2015
flankspeed8 Am I being logical in thinking that 60kwh batteries will actually degrade quicker as they are using a higher percentage of capacity of the battery compared to the 85 considering all other situations identical?�
Jan 9, 2015
TommyBoy P85 - 12,000 miles - 18 months old
I was at a SuperCharger a couple weeks ago and my maximum full rated range charge is 252 miles.
What has bothered me recently is that my around-town driving seems to be taking a brutal beating on charge. I did some stop and go errands with my wife the other day and we drove 24.2 miles and used up 37 rated miles!
This is in Southern California. It was unseasonably cold here (40F at night) and I suspected it could have something to do with that. I charge to 80% when I need to - definitely not every night. 80% charge provides me with 201 rated miles consistently.
We finished our errands this week (it was a long project where we needed to stop by multiple schools each day) and I didn't take detailed notes but I noticed that we burned through another 40 miles rated and couldn't have driven more than 20 actual miles.
I'll keep an eye on it because I'm not sure if it's a problem or just the way the car is reporting rated miles. We didn't have climate control or seat heating on at all and probably never exceeded 50mph so I would expect close to 1 for 1 rated to actual miles.
I did note that on our drive back from the SuperCharger a couple weeks ago that we started with 252 rated miles and arrived with 206 rated miles. Actual travel distance between the two locations was 45 miles so that was almost dead-on 1 for 1. Stop and go LA traffic has its merits.
My battery never had 265 miles at 100%. I think the best I ever saw was 262 miles. My 80% charge used to be 208 miles and now it's 201. I was religious about plugging in my car every night (NEMA 14-50 dialed back to 30 amps) for the first year but have only been plugging in when I need a charge for the past 6 months.�
Jan 11, 2015
SeminoleFSU I range charged yesterday and only got 247 miles rated which was pretty disappointing considering the last time I did a range charge I had 257 rated. I'm only at 25k miles on a B pack. Hopefully I'm just out of balance or the rated # is dropping due to changes in firmware calculations�
Jan 11, 2015
SeminoleFSU Same here. I just set it at 30 and forget it. Plenty of time yo get the overnight charge I need for my next trip to work. Just a shame the chargers that Tesla provides can't reliably withstand continued use at the top if their rated range�
Jan 11, 2015
Chipper I have range charged two times in this past week after not range charging for months. The first time it was 254 but when I drove away I drove for more than 5 miles before it came down to 253. The next day I range charged and it stopped at 255 and I got the same kind of response. Typically when not on a range charge when I pull away from the SC my range drops within the first mile.�
Jan 11, 2015
ecarfan For over a year I have been charging my S almost every night at 80A. I have not had any problems except 10 months ago Tesla came out and replaced the cable because I could not get the charge port to open using the button at the end of the cable. No problems since.�
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