Thứ Hai, 30 tháng 1, 2017

Supercharger congestion problem ideas. part 1

  • Sep 2, 2016
    Chrisuk83
    OK, so as many have already thought, when the M3 comes out and when production numbers start to run into the millions, supercharger congestion is going to be an issue. At around 30 minutes a charge, what's your ideas on what could help ease the congestion?
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    Chrisuk83
    I think a small fine (maybe $10) if people over stay after 30 minutes.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    andrewket
    Having a 30 minute max in all cases is not appropriate. Someone may arrive with next to zero and need to go 100%. You don't know where they are going and where their next charging opportunity may be.

    As long as people immediately vacate after charging, it'a up to Tesla to continue to innovate to increase the charging rate/decrease charging time, and install additional stalls to meet demand.

    I am very much in favor of Tesla's idle time charge. In fact, I'd love to see it tiered: 5-15 minutes idle is x, 15-30 is 2x, and anything over 30 is 3x the cost per minute.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    Buddy
    Picking up car Saturday.

    Sunday will be my first supercharging B experience as I travel to San Diego and I'll need to charge/add at least 20 miles to give me a buffer to get home. I've read on this forum that the San Diego supercharger is commonly packed with a waiting Que. forum members say it's commonly Qual Comm employees parking their cars there for the day.

    Point is whether an idle fee or something else, I'm for something to prevent spaces being taken without charging.

    has it been asked if these people who park there all day know what they are doing? I wonder if they are ignorant or just don't care.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    JeffK
    As long as it beings a count after 5 minutes that'd be cool. I'd hate to be nickle and dimed because it took me 1 minute to unplug get in my car and pull out
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    Tech_Guy
    Home chargeing is the solution. I say this because I feel most congestion is due to daily supercharging by people close to home ETC.

    Most people don't drive more then 50 - 100 miles a day, if they plug in at night then they can do it all over again the next day no super charger needed. My Wife commutes 140 miles per day and even with the smallest battery pack she would be able to skip the supercharger. This is the most convenient as it would save her the 30min-1 hr at a supercharger ignoring whatever the wait time or congestion might be there and also not adding more time to her 2hour and 40 min commute. So my answer again is home charging or possibly charging at work if they have that option. Superchargers are for road trips.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    03DSG
  • Sep 2, 2016
    Buddy
    Many don't have capability to charge at home. (Apartments, condos, etc).

    I plan on talking to people at super chargers and gathering info.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    TaoJones
    There are plenty of existing threads concerning this topic, in which most of the FUD has been addressed.

    Tesla has committed to density as well as to distance for 2 years now. SCs are not just for distance usage.

    And there is no significant "daily supercharging" by locals. Perpetuating this myth only does a disservice to the non-garaged potential owners who have been, are, and will be welcome to use SCs unless and until they can arrange charging at home or at work.

    Finally, it helps to keep the Model 3 in perspective. Half the production will go overseas. A significant percentage of domestic production will end up in California and NY/NJ/CT. California is scheduled to get over 12,000 new public chargers and that's just from the utilities. The net is that each of the other states will absorb an average of 1,000 Model 3s per year and all will be well.

    Will there be occasional congestion? Sure. Go to any Costco for gas on a Sunday afternoon and you'll see the same thing. By the way, a new Costco hereabouts opened with 10-12 spiffy new EV charging spaces. Almost completely empty.

    Mods - consider merging this thread with any of the others.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    dsvick
  • Sep 2, 2016
    Chopr147
    "Tesla CEO Elon Musk always said that he was open to sharing the network with other automakers"
    IK he has said this before but with the 3 coming out IDK how this would work. Future Chevrolet's charging at Tesla SC's will just overload the system even more. Unless plans for a SC at every gas station?
    I am mostly a home charger and will be onto my next S in 3 years before NY has these issues. I guess I will just enjoy it while it lasts :)
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    Topher
    Why on Earth would anyone expect 'the system' to be static. Tesla is planning on doubling the superchargers before the Model 3 is released. More cars means more money which means more chargers. As long as the ratio remains roughly the same, no big deal. [Yes, fewer chargers will be needed per car, with increasing numbers, as many of the chargers are area limited rather than car limited.]

    I know that Elon has done the math, and could tell you how many Superchargers will be needed when every car on the roads is an electric car which can use them.

    Thank you kindly.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    Jayc
    Tesla should start charging a fine after 5 or 10 minutes and the charge should be per minute, not a flat one off after a certain delay. This is how parking charges work and no one complains about that except when enforcement officers stay waiting to issue notices 1 second after expiry time which is not going to happen with SC idle fees.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    cpa
    Jay, I think that this approach would be nigh on impossible to implement, collect and enforce. I think it would also generate adverse publicity for Tesla when a guilty party posts on the net, "Tesla fined me $15 because my car stayed 5 minutes too long at a Supercharger! I had a small emergency with my 5-year old daughter and could not return in time!" Not to mention that people cancel or change credit cards, and will not want to deposit X dollars with Tesla for possible future use. And I do not see Tesla having a call center to handle such disputes over these putative fines for staying too long.

    While it is easy for me to challenge your point, alas, I cannot offer up a sensible and reasonable solution. :eek:
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    McRat
    After 1 hour of being plugged into an SC, it starts to recapture the electricity from the battery. You leave it there 2 hours? Dead battery.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    Jayc
    @cpa it will be easy for Tesla to issue fines in Tesla credit. You would have your Tesla credits reduced. You could even end up with negative credit which means you'd have to reload credits to be able to use SC again. What would happen with a parking ticket if we had an unexpected emergency - we'd pay up. Unfortunately, there will always be situations when people will get penalised wrongly. However in general, and for the vast majority of SC users, this could work very well. Just as with parking tickets, we just need to plan ahead in advance and that way, the chance of unexpected emergencies resulting in fines can be minimised. Talking about being unfair, I think it will be much more unjust if an SC user ends up having to wait for hours just because someone decided to go shopping with their car plugged in. I think that can provoke much more negative publicity than Tesla enforcing a well laid out code of conduct for SC users.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    McRat
    You are thinking backwards. The carrot works better than the stick.

    Every week you DON'T use Superchargers, you get $20 MuskBucks. Up to $750 a year.

    MuskBucks can be used at the Tesla Service Center, Parts, or car purchases.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    tashtibet
    superchargers only for a long trip not for daily commute. Since people are used to going to gas station it'll take a while to understand-normally charge at home-problem solved-common sense.
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  • Sep 2, 2016
    ApauloThirteen

    'In Musk... we must trust.'

    You figure they have the Model S usage stats over years, they have the information on where these model s/x/3 reservations are (density, location, etc) and usage history. You also can wager they have teams working on: higher capacity batteries, better architecture, better cooling, faster charging, etc etc etc.

    Finally, who has a huge incentive to make sure everyone has a great Tesla experience and who is the CEO most likely to trade off short term profits for long term customer satisfaction......

    ...we hope.....
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    There appear to be so few congestion issues that I don't believe there needs to be a solution. I believe its an interim thing until more SC's are installed.

    I think we all need to relax and wait. It'll be ok.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    JeffK
    I have an idea... have a set of these in your car :)
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    McRat
    You do know that ALL ev owners are "mostly a home charger" right? Over 90% of the kWh's come from home or work.

    The typical Volt user has never used a remote charger unless there is one at work. Don't expect the Bolt to be different, because the Spark with only 84mi of range is the same.

    People do not understand how many apartments and condos there are in urban areas. Many don't even allow 120v charging. Luckily, these folk seldom buy BEVs. But they are your biggest threat, not existing cars that aren't using remote charging to begin with.

    It will the falling prices of BEV's that will allow more apartment and condo dwellers to enter the BEV market, and that is your biggest worry.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    Chopr147
    Not true. I see you are from Ca. but some of your fellow statesman complain of the SC's being used for daily charging by those same apt. and condo dwellers you mention. Add in the ones who just love anything free and will SC to save $3.00.
    I myself have used my local SC after a long trip because I still planned on driving for the rest of the day and did not want to wait for my slower home charger. There are many variables and I just hope Tesla and crew stay on top of the charging details. The big automakers will have to spend some of their profits if they want to compete. At this point they seem unconcerned
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    dsvick
    If they go with the prepaid KwH plan as suspected they are going to have to have at least a small call center to handle the calls for that so having it also handle complaints for idling charged would make sense. And, hopefully, the longer it is implemented the more people will adjust their behavior and reduce their idle time.

    Never happen - it goes against all their goals of getting people to use BEVs for all their driving. You're going to give someone $20 off their next service call if they don't take the family on vacation? Or for taking their family on vacation in an ICE? What about all the people that have to use the SC network for work, they get penalized for doing their jobs?
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    KJD
    Every condo has electricity to the building. Same with apartment buildings. You just have to work harder to get that electricity to your parking spot. Here is an example of what can be done when you try.
    Condo Charging - Minimal cost installation and some questions
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    callmesam
    Any idle charges proposed by Tesla Motors should pay 1/2 the credits to the person waiting.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    PRJIM
    Daily, monthly or yearly passes will probably work a lot better with blackout dates during heavy travel days. Charging in minute increments is silly IMO

    Tesla should also buy back access from existing owners. I know a lot of owners who rarely use Supercharging access and would probably downgrade to limited access for free maintenance or some other intrinsic perk.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    Troyrod
    Charge the cars that live within X radius of a supercharger, i.e. Discourage local charging.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    dsvick
    No, then your not charging it based on actual usage. If I'm going on vacation for a week and get a week pass but only use it once or twice I'm not getting very good value as compared to the family that uses it every day for their vacation.

    I don't see that happening either, that would be Tesla just giving away money.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    Buddy
    Maybe the "valets" can start doing a survey asking people why they are charging.

    1. Out of town?
    2. No place to charge at home?
    3. Don't want to charge at home?
    4. Place to park and leave all day while you work?
    5. Etc.

    Then Tesla can manage the issue.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    dsvick
    Why? There is nothing that says SC can't be used for local people. In fact, there are quotes out there where Elon even recommends it.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    dsvick
    I think there are valets at only a few locations though.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    jerry33
    A standard saying in engineering is "You can't design for the thousand year flood". There's always going to be some congestion at the busiest ones in just the same way that there are some gas stations with long wait times--and gas stations have been around for over a century compared to four years for Superchargers. When I purchased my Model S, there were two or three Supercharger locations and they were 2,800 km away. Now there are almost three hundred (not counting the ones serving our friends overseas). That's close to one hundred per year. While it's frustrating to wait for ones to be placed exactly where you want them or added to relieve congestion, to me it appears that Tesla implementing them as fast as it's possible to do without unlimited funding.

    Obviously if one of you folks who's richer than I am said "Hey, Tesla, here's $8B. Build 15,000 Supercharger sites during the next eighteen months", that would be doable. But I'm guessing there won't be any takers on this. (BTW that works out to about $4B for SCs and $3B for campaign contributions, and $1B for administrative and misc. expenses.)
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    PRJIM
    That would depend on the price. If you only use it once or twice the daily pass may be a better purchase. Paying per charge or kWH is a recipe for costs becoming insane i.e. 70kWh x2 @ .10 a kWh would be more expensive than a 10 dollar daily pass.


    Just like their $1000 dollar referrals?
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I don't believe you would be able to unlock the charge cable - would you?
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    JeffK
    There's no lock... you just unplug it, roll the offending car out of the way, pull up your car, and begin charging.

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  • Sep 3, 2016
    mhan00
    I'm pretty sure the plug remains locked as long as the car is locked. The girl can only unplug the car because her dad/mom is there with the key fob and the car is unlocked.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    TaoJones
    Cherry picking and myopia does not prove rules. And the rule today is that most multi-family housing management needs a swift kick in the keyster to get in board the EV train. And that's just the subset of properties that don't have significant impediments/reasons to say no. And there are of course significant reasons and impediments at some properties, At many others, there are not.

    Fortunately, between greater awareness, incentives, and municipal enforcement of updated code, in time an EV-friendly property will enjoy a competitive advantage.

    Today, it's hit or miss and a lot harder than it needs to be. This will change. Optimistically it will take less than a generation.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    RubberToe
    As long as the MuskBucks carry over from one ElonYear to the next, I'm totally cool with this.

    RT
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    gregd
    For what it's worth, the ChargePoint stations at work instituted a $10/hr "parking fee" if you stayed there beyond the 4 hour free-charging time limit. The fee was prorated, so something like 17 cents per minute. That worked pretty well in preventing folks from just sitting there, but then someone figured out that if they used their smart phone app to stop the charging, it would also stop the clock on the parking timer. Now they're changing the signage marking the stalls as "For EV Charging Only" instead of "For EV Parking Only" (as if that will help).

    Then I retired, so I don't know how the story will end, but peer pressure seemed to be the most promising. Simple education, pointing out that there were only so many chargers, and way more than that number EVs, one of them owned by a really dedicated guy who used more than 50% of his range just getting to the office.

    So, let's not call the overage a "fine", when assessing a "fee" will tangibly convey the same message that occupying the space is not with out a cost, but without adding a stigma to it. Educate the folks who seem to be using more than most in terms of usage, and engage in a dialog as to why they are doing that. You might learn something that could make the overall EV universe better.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    JeffK
    Is it locked by electromagnet... I can work with that.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    jerry33
    Peer pressure didn't help handicapped parking--it took fines and towing over several years. And my guess is that there are more people sympathetic to handicapped than there are people sympathetic to EV driving needs. Peer pressure works best within a group where everyone wants to be respected by others in the group. It doesn't work for those outside the group who could care less about those in any particular group.

    Dialogues and education work with reasonable people.

    Those who are using more than most can probably be classified into three groups: 1) Those who have no home charging. 2) Those who are cheap and don't value their time. 3) Those who drive more than most. Groups 1 and 3 are not a problem--and it would be a big problem if they were considered a problem. It's group 2 that needs to change.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    cpa
    My sister-in-law has a real good friend. Her friend and her husband put down a deposit on a Model 3. I was talking to them recently about the Model 3, and they were intrigued by the Atascadero Supercharger, because they travel from Fresno to the Central Coast frequently. The Atascadero Supercharger was one of the compelling reasons that they are taking the plunge.

    Recently, one of them remarked that it was cool that the Atascadero Supercharger was close to the movies, so that they could catch a movie while plugged in on their trip to or from the Coast. :mad: I nicely informed them that the Superchargers were for charging, not parking, and that it was courteous to leave promptly upon attaining the desired state of charge.

    They understood, and they agreed. But they said that they had driven past them on a few occasions, and that they were either unoccupied or only had two or three stalls in use.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    jerry33
    That's how most Supercharger, EV charging, and handicapped spaces are. Unfortunately, that logic always leads to people that need to use those spaces unable to use them, which is why fines and towing had to be mandated for handicapped spaces (and some states are doing the same for EV charging). For movie theatres and other "more than 45 minutes to an hour" activities destination charging is the correct charging to have. At 80 amps an HPWC can add quite a bit of range in the time it takes to see a movie.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    gregd
    I agree. I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be a tangible cost for abuse; there needs to be. But I also don't want to leave groups 1 and 3 with a bad taste in their mouth for doing what they need to do. Those who need the service would probably accept a reasonable "fee", but it would also undermine the cheap and rude. They would likely see a fee as a fine, and rightly so... Then they might listen to a little education, or get P'd off enough go elsewhere.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    What was your response?
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    RobertF
    There is probably no one best solution. I can see a variety of options to choose from. I would like one to be the $ per KW. I believe, however, they should double the charge cost for SC's within 50 or so miles of its home and reduce the cost beyond that distance. If it works out financially, long distance free would be desirable.
    In this way you penalize people using SC's to charge when they could/should of done it at home. This should free up local SC's. Also it rewards long distance travelers, which the program is intended for.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    KJD
    I think having one hour max time at a charging stall would be a reasonable solution to overcrowding. Most of the time I am done in less than 30 minutes, but if you are going off the supercharger highway you might need max range and a one hour limit would be useful then.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    jerry33
    The problem with this is that right now it would discourage apartment and condo dwellers. I guess Tesla could create a "Condo" card (similar to a handicapped card) to display so that folks would know it's legit.

    The Condo problem is a chicken-and-egg situation. Condo and apartment owners won't change unless there is a strong demand and there won't be a strong demand unless condo and apartment dwellers start driving EVs. They won't drive EVs if they can't have reasonable access to charging, which includes nearby Superchargers. So penalizing those who charge within 50 miles is very bad PR. Also, although I never charge at the nearby SC, If I was coming back from a trip and was low I'd be really ticked off if I had to pay for a ten minute stop to give me enough to get home just because the SC was within 50 miles of my house.

    The real answer is more SCs, which will come eventually, not penalizing people for charging. And no matter what system you devise there will always be jerks. You can't legislate against jerks--just look at the current Congress and Senate.
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  • Sep 3, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I love your post and agree with 100% of it. Especially the concern for Apartment and Condo owners.
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  • Sep 4, 2016
    Model 3
    Will it be a strong demand if the condo and apartment dwellers has a solution on their charging problem? I think the strongest demand for this would be if the dwellers tells the owners that "We need a charging solution, or we have to move out of/do not move into your condo/apartment".
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  • Sep 4, 2016
    jerry33
    Agreed, but that only will happen if they drive EVs, which won't happen if they don't have reasonable charging access such as Superchargers.
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  • Sep 4, 2016
    winfield100
    know of 1 apartment dweller that had a discreet 10 guage extension cord running to their vehicle.
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  • Sep 4, 2016
    Model 3
    I partly disagree. Yes, they will probably own the car if they consider to move in to a condo/apartment, but this will also happen if they live there and want to drive/own an BEV (if they check for their possibility to charge it before buying). So no, we do not necessarily need a situation where the condo/apartments dweller owns an BEV before they put the pressure on the owners.
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  • Sep 6, 2016
    dsvick
    Of course it would depend on price. Yes, if you could get a day pass for $10 vs $14 for two charging sessions it would make sense. However, I don't see Tesla giving away money like that. It is much easier to just have people pay for what they use, it is also easier from an accounting standpoint, as well as in determining if a car is authorized to charge. Do they have credits? Yes or no, simple. No worrying about the date, or time of day, what month it is, or anything else.


    The referral program is a reward for people that generate sales for Tesla. It is no way similar to Tesla deliberatley giving money back for something people have already paid for and have no expectation of receiving back.
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  • Sep 6, 2016
    JeffK
    Or would it be easier to charge a flat rate for any charge regardless of energy...
    This would cause people to charge using a supercharger only when they need it and potentially ease congestion at the expense of slightly longer charging times.

    Although that could lead to higher incidence of stranded EVs on the road giving EVs a bad name if people aren't responsible enough to charge when they need to.
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  • Sep 6, 2016
    PRJIM
    The rate would have to be based on the price per kwh at the time charged. Prices could vary from 8 cents a kwh to 50 cents a kwh in some areas. Too many variables
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  • Sep 6, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Indeed... too many variables.
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  • Sep 6, 2016
    dsvick
    It might also make people wait until they needed it the most in order to maximize their spending, resulting in longer charge times ....

    Ultimately there is no perfect solution that will solve all the possible issues or make all of the people happy. They'll come up with the best one they can and I'm sure most of us will get along just fine. Of course, there will always be those unhappy few, but then again, they are usually never satisfied so they can be discounted :D
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  • Sep 6, 2016
    cpa
    To me a real easy approach would be for Tesla to sell unlimited usage for one day, three day, seven day, month and 90 days, for example. This skirts the per kWh restriction in those states where Tesla is not registered as a public utility. Perhaps the three-day subscription would be valid for any three days in a seven-day period, and the seven day subscription would be good for any seven days in a two week period. (Or maybe that would be too complicated.) Lotsa people travel to a destination and stay for a week or so. But they only need Supercharging to reach and return from their destination.
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  • Sep 7, 2016
    Mark C
    I agree that this is a huge issue on EV implementation. At some point, I believe it will take regulatory intervention to force apartment and condo operators/owners to make available EVSE connections. It may be that third parties will own the actual EVSE and it would, of course be fee based.

    Having been a landlord before, I can attest that they are not all a bunch of fatcats milking the peasants. On the contrary, with laws being the way they are, there are far too many units where the owners struggle to meet their financial obligations when deadbeat tenants are a problem. This makes it difficult to do repairs / maintenance / upgrades.
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  • Sep 11, 2016
    zenmaster
    Why do you need to force condo owners? They own the property. I don't think there is a single condo in my city that doesn't offer an EV connection for your parking space. You just pay to have it installed and pay the association a fixed fee.
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  • Sep 11, 2016
    SpiceWare
    No regulations are needed, it's already happening. A quick search for Houston turned up these:

    Alexan Heights
    Alexan Midtown
    AMLI Uptown
    Pearl Greenway
    San Antigua
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  • Sep 12, 2016
    Mark C
    Very poorly worded, indeed. Having lived in a condo, I was introduced to some of the dumbest reasons on the planet to prevent people from doing things that were visible when driving through the neighborhood. I do not live in an EV friendly state. My local utility told me they would have to charge me extra because of the excess consumption I would require if I installed an EVSE. They are very resistant to change.
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  • Sep 12, 2016
    dsvick
    I think the market will take care of this as condo operators lose rentors because of this, they'll be increasingly pressured to add the convenience or be left behind.
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  • Sep 12, 2016
    zenmaster
    Who was your local utility and how much extra were they charging?
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  • Sep 12, 2016
    MiamiNole
    Is that even legal? Can they discriminate on WHAT you use your energy for? Unless there's a specific charge for excess consumption above a specified amount, I would think that wouldn't be allowed. But then again, I can never put it past some local and state governments....
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    JeffK
    I think you might have been misunderstanding this unless Alabama is that backwards... In general, if you use more energy you are charged more money. That's simple enough.
    You can get an electrician to install your EVSE.

    Utility companies are heavily regulated, they aren't going to charge you extra because you have an EVSE or a special toaster. They will charge you normal rates for your usage based on local laws and regulations.
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    mhan00
    Generation 2 Volt (2016-2020)

    That's a link to a Volt message board where they argue over similar things regarding Level 2 chargers. That's the future of Tesla Superchargers if the Model 3 knocks it out of the park like we all hope in a couple of years. It's good to see Tesla at least planning on some steps to keep congestion issues to a minimum in the future.
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    aesculus
    I would like to see some form of 'Open Table' like reservation for non local travelers. Tesla could see where you were heading based on the navigation and insure you had a charger waiting for you upon arrival unless everyone else was long distance too.

    Locals would only get what's left over or perhaps reserve one charger for locals only, unless others are unoccupied. If you pull into a charger that is reserved it would either not charge or let you know you only have x minutes before you have to exit the charger. I can just see people ignoring that message and leaving their car taking the slot and coming back to an angry crowd while at the same time their car was not charged either. After doing that one time though, I think the message would be clear.
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I think that your idea is very good.

    The only problem that I have with this entire thread though....is that congestion is SUCH a non-issue 99.9% of the time across the US.
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Obviously you have not been to California supercharging stations.
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    mhan00
    And only for now, unless Tesla completely flops on their current accelerated manufacturing plans and/or sustained demand for the Model 3 is far less than we would like to believe, which no one wants. If Tesla succeeds as we all hope they do on the timeline they've set, then congestion will become an issue at more locations, and current locations that experience congestion will get much worse.
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    S4WRXTTCS
    I'm actually hoping that monetizing supercharger services is successful. It would be pretty cool to simply valet your car when you arrived, and then do whatever you want for awhile before coming back. Where you just pay some fee for the valet/parking, and they take care of it. Maybe they wash it as well.

    The new 60D owners will barely be able to eat before their cars get done charging. There isn't a whole lot of charge taper on those. With my 70D I spend my charge taper waiting for the waiter to bring me my check.
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Nope. I haven't.
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  • Sep 13, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I would hope that the increase in battery technology / storage (150kwh battery) would cause SC congestion to taper down a lot.
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  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    The rationale the utility gave was the added demand required for an EV, forcing them to install a larger transformer to carry the heavy load of an EV. Of course, this was an off the cuff threat, not a well thought out response. But it only takes one person to put a kink in a plan, if it is the person who holds the most sway.

    It's very, very unlikely that I will actually tell them I have an EV, because they have rejected TVA's tiered usage program, so there won't be a lower rate for night time usage or for charging an EV. I live in a small city of ~ 8300 people.
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    If you were a Tesla owner today you would know that statement is not true.
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    I'm pretty sure he IS a Tesla owner. I've seen that thrown out a lot of times on this forum who are indeed Tesla owners. The US is a large country. Not everyone's SC experience is the same.
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    I am, however as I have stated a million times. I have never ever seen any congestion anywhere here in the Chicagoland area.
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    If you like, we can export some of this from California to you no charge. (pun intended) :)
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    That 99.9% might be a slight exaggeration, but probably not by much:

    There's 296 supercharger locations in the US. There's 46 in California (search count for ", CA" on supercharger.info's Data page is 52 hits, less the 6 not yet open).

    Assuming all congestion happens in CA 24 hours a day * then congestion is a non-issue (296-46)/296 = 84% of the time.

    * If this were true we'd be hearing about it all the time in the media
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    Very clever.

    No thanks - Not looking for any congestion. Thanks for the offer though. LOL
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    Everyone of current and future owners call their legislators to pass a bill to fund the superchargers at our local parks; public or government parking facilities; government-owned vacant lots near highway intersections, in national parks.
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    Living in CA, and having used CA superchargers most, I have found that nearly always there are plenty of spaces open for use. I am often the only car.

    The difference was only in about three places, and the problem was that these SCs weren't placed for long distance travel so much as for local use, mainly Burbank, Fountain Valley, and San Juan Capistrano. Some superchargers at a Service Center, like Dublin, get filled by the dealer, some like SJC, and Harris Ranch, fill only at rare peak times, but Burbank and FV both are filled morning, noon and night by locals. Unless you come after 10 PM or before 6 AM, it will be a wait. I see that Santa Ana and Buena Park are in progress, which will make 7-10 superchargers in the LA area. I guess Tesla will just have to keep putting in SCs for all the people who can't get a charger put in at home or don't want to use it because it costs 5 bucks at home.

    But really, truly, there is little crowding most everywhere. Tesla is doing a good job, and they are not done.
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    Many municipalities and public entities provide funding for more universal charging stations (such as Level 2). A particular flavor of DC Fast Charging can't be used by the masses, so they are usually not eligible for public funding as you have suggested. Many grant opportunities, for example, require both Chademo and CCS connectors for DC fast charging statons. Tesla Superchargers would fall into that type of proprietary charging station that would be difficult to get public funding for...
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    This is a good point and I would hope that in the future Tesla will make a CCS adapter because it appears that is where the market is headed now.

    For the short term a good compromise would be to ask for 80 amp J1772 because everyone can use that.
    70/80A Level 2 EVSE CS-100 Hardwired | ClipperCreek
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    As part of the 'Deal with the DEViL' that sees the Great State of California spending $200,000,000 over the course of ten years to build Hydrogen Fuel Stations, there is also a provision that allows an additional $50,000,000 for the installation of electric vehicle charging stations. I have no idea what they are installing or where, but the money has been allocated.
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    My local supermarket is getting 4. Not sure why. If you cannot make it to your local supermarket without recharging, where can you get to?
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    I wouldn't worry too much. They will be ubiquitous.
    What concerns me is the apathy of the entire car industry, that will lead to Tesla having a monopoly on electric charging stations, which will lead to an overpriced cash cow for them.
    In the same way YouTube didn't remain 'free' forever after Google bought it and advertising & subscription fees were introduced, Tesla is not only going to charge for the use, but steadily increase the fees. And ultimately the car industry will be to blame for their apathy in allowing Tesla to develop this monopoly.
    �
  • 1/1/2015
    guest
    @Nuclear Fusion -- Depends upon what one feels is a 'monopoly'. For instance, NADA is accusing Tesla Motors of wanting a monopoly by not using 'independent franchised dealerships' as a distribution method 'like everyone else'. Meanwhile, Tesla has exposed that the 'independent franchised dealerships' are claiming a monopoly on the sale of new vehicles, which they do not deserve.

    Tesla Motors has made sure their cars could be charged pretty much EVERYWHERE, ANYTIME, ANYPLACE, using ANYTHING... And then they made all their patents open and royalty free... That doesn't seem like a monopolistic practice to me. More like an inclusive one.

    Those who expect that the Supercharger network will eventually become a profitable enterprise that amounts to becoming 'The Next EXXON!' are woefully inaccurate. I would say something else, but that might find its way to Snippiness... Setting up the Superchargers to only operate with authorized vehicles is not monopolistic, but practical. Certain plug-in vehicles have extremely small battery pack capacities. Superchargers should not have to throttle back to accommodate them. And it sends the entirely wrong message if ICE based plug-in hybrids are allowed to use them. Tesla Motors cannot force GM, Toyota, Volkswagen, or Ford to join the Supercharger network. But Tesla can make an offer and set the terms for inclusion. This only becomes a monopoly if the others go out of business after refusing to join.
    �
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