teslamotorclub: Has the way you feel about Tesla changed the way you speak about Tesla to others? part 1

This is a poll to gauge whether or not Tesla's actions have had an impact on how we, as customers and Tesla enthusiasts, have changed the way we speak about Tesla when speaking to other people about the company and our cars.
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Looks like I am one of the first to vote. My happiness with Tesla and my ownership experience has deepened over time, I think with some of the very pleasant experiences with my local service center and a general satisfaction with my car. Best car I've ever owned.
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Nothing has changed, but I've only had the car for a month. But I've been following Tesla for probably 1-2 years now.

I recommend Tesla to all my techie friends, but not to my non-techie friends. Why? Because there are still some bugs we as users deal with, and non-techie people are less likely to handle that well (nav errors, the car restarting, door handles still not being perfect, squeaks/rattles/etc.). In addition [not related to just Tesla] the learning curve for using an EV (lots of my friends have asked me "how do you know where to charge?". People comment "o wow, your car can get 2xx miles on a single charge? then you get into the whole discussion of not if you speed, and not if it's cold, and etc.)
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Depends on the time frame. My disposition towards Tesla has never gotten worse, only better, but it depends on the time frame.

It took a big leap up when they started production of the Model S. That really impressed me.

It took another smaller leap up when they demonstrated the Supercharger network and firmed up plans for the full buildout.

There are essentially 2 other things right now that might lead to additional leaps up in my positive attitude towards them. One is if they achieve their goals with the Gigafactory in reducing battery costs and increasing battery production. The other is if their PowerWall and PowerPack ambitions start to be realized.

Admittedly, I get a little excited and happy to see things like the Gigafactory and PowerWall being announced and started, but I don't really give it my personal seal of greatness until planned production capability is realized or reasonably assured. When it comes to a company, I'm not a believer in expectations or ambitions. I'm a believer in proven results. And, in the grand scheme of things, I don't really care so much about "little" things any company can do (like making AWD or a good nav system or a good stereo or driver assist features), I care about "big" things only a great company will do (non-compromising EV production, the Supercharger network, a working Gigafactory, and realizing a viable grid storage solution to make solar power a truly viable large-scale power source).

I know some people might lower their view based on software bugs, hardware glitches, repair costs, problems with autopilot software, etc, but not me. I always expected those things. Tesla has some great engineers, but it's still humans with human errors and limitations, working on new things with new failure modes that humanity doesn't have a history of experience with. There's going to be problems. What I really care about is that they keep trying to do things that are world changing, for the better, and finding real world engineering and production solutions to actually make it happen. So far, Tesla has been doing great in that regard, and I hope they continue to do so.
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I am happier with Tesla and I don't think I will drive any other ICE car with exception to my wife's.

There are things which I think Tesla needs to work on...for instance Nav, Trip planner, 17 inch screen with better features and more robust browser, Tire pressure display etc.

But overall I love Tesla:smile:

What I am curious is to hear from people who chose option 3.
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ATH
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My initial delivery experience for a demo model wasn't smooth. Glitches on all levels from local staff to head office. Now after 8 months of ownership and some amazing customer service, I am totally pleased.
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taurusking said: ?

What I am curious is to hear from people who chose option 3.
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I chose Option 3.

I haven't posted anything because I didn't want to in any way influence the poll. But since you asked, and since so many people are posting why they love Tesla, and why they are choosing option 2, I will give some of my reasons for selecting option 3.

For me the final straw was what happened with the whole center console fiasco. Tesla lied to us. They broke their promise. I planned to have my very expensive car include a Matte Obeche center console. It was listed in the Tesla store when I ordered my car. The fact that it wasn't on the website order page with the car I viewed as just a technical issue. I'd be ordering the console the same way I was ordering my rubber floor mats--separately, from the Tesla Store. It never dawned on me that I might not be able to get the item. The way Tesla handled that was, as I say, the final straw for me. I no longer trust Tesla to do what they say they will do.

There are certainly many other things led to my feeling that way.

Tesla released the P85Ds without any indication that they had not yet enabled torque sleep, so the early adopters had no idea why we were not seeing anything close to the efficiency we should have expected. Even after torque sleep was released, the efficiency was still not as initially advertised on the website.

Tesla delivered my car without Next Generation seats, even though I had ordered and paid for them. I received them five months later, with not so much as a token of appreciation for the inconvenience. Many others had similar experiences.

My P85D doesn't make the 691 HP I expected it to be able to make, based on what was on the website at the time I ordered the car. It doesn't come close. I believe the best estimates are that at most it puts out 550 HP. Tesla is now releasing an "upgrade" that would get my car close to the HP it was originally supposed to make, but if I want it, I'll have to shell out somewhere in the neighborhood of $6500.

The way Tesla misrepresents things on their website and in their marketing is frustrating. When Musk spoke at the original D launch announcement he made it sound like all the autopilot features would be available when the first cars were delivered. One had to read the fine print on the website to realize that was not the case. Currently the website is even more misleading on this front to those not intimately familiar with the progression of the Tesla firmware versions.

The user interface, in many ways, is severely lacking. There are so many things it could do so much better if Tesla just spent more money on hiring more programmers, and put more time and effort in. The navigation system is a total joke. It was a joke before Musk's big range assurance announcement, and it's an even bigger joke now.

This is, by no means, a comprehensive list of the reasons my feelings have changed.

I am still generally happy with my car. I'm just not nearly as happy with it as I was when I received it, mainly because now every time I get in it I see a mismatched interior that I fear I'll be looking at for the next ten or fifteen years. (I keep cars a long time.) That really steams me, considering what I paid for the car. I feel like my trust has been violated.

So while I still like my car, I am no longer telling anyone who will listen how wonderful it is. I'm not going around bad-mouthing Tesla either. For the most part, I actually do still have lots of good things to say about Tesla and my car. I'm just not going out of the way to say them the way I had been, and my attitude is most definitely toned down from what it had been.

Tesla will wind up selling fewer six-figure cars because they didn't give me a $50 part. How stupid is that?
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The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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I said this in another thread, but Tesla Scottsdale treats me like royalty. My service manager, Nicholas Thompson, is amazing. Nothing has changed in the way Tesla is treating me since 2013. I am, and always have been, totally thrilled and excited to be part of the Tesla family. I don't have autopilot or any of that stuff, and I don't care.
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BoerumHill said: ?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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What does that even mean?

I didn't comment at all until asked.

I gave the reasons why --I-- changed the way --I-- feel about Tesla, and why --I-- am not singing their praises the way --I-- used to.

I'm not suggesting others should feel the same way.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

This is a poll to gauge whether or not Tesla's actions have had an impact on how we... have changed the way we speak about Tesla...
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I'm confused. Is there some recent announcement or decision on Tesla's part that prompted you to post this poll?

And to answer your question, I'm pretty lukewarm about Tesla right now. On the one hand, they've been exceedingly cordial and helpful to me. On the other hand, they keep not coming through on promises and deadlines, and it's bumming me out.

Andyw2100 said: ?

What does that even mean?
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Replying on the off chance that you don't know what that expression means; I don't have any comment on the content of your complaint.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" is used to indicate that the speaker's unusually strong arguments in a particular direction are meant to disguise thoughts in the opposite direction.

In other words, if he's talking to you, he's saying that you're being disingenuous in your complaint.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

I chose Option 3.

I haven't posted anything because I didn't want to in any way influence the poll. But since you asked, and since so many people are posting why they love Tesla, and why they are choosing option 2, I will give some of my reasons for selecting option 3.

For me the final straw was what happened with the whole center console fiasco. Tesla lied to us. They broke their promise. I planned to have my very expensive car include a Matte Obeche center console. It was listed in the Tesla store when I ordered my car. The fact that it wasn't on the website order page with the car I viewed as just a technical issue. I'd be ordering the console the same way I was ordering my rubber floor mats--separately, from the Tesla Store. It never dawned on me that I might not be able to get the item. The way Tesla handled that was, as I say, the final straw for me. I no longer trust Tesla to do what they say they will do.

There are certainly many other things led to my feeling that way.

Tesla released the P85Ds without any indication that they had not yet enabled torque sleep, so the early adopters had no idea why we were not seeing anything close to the efficiency we should have expected. Even after torque sleep was released, the efficiency was still not as initially advertised on the website.

Tesla delivered my car without Next Generation seats, even though I had ordered and paid for them. I received them five months later, with not so much as a token of appreciation for the inconvenience. Many others had similar experiences.

My P85D doesn't make the 691 HP I expected it to be able to make, based on what was on the website at the time I ordered the car. It doesn't come close. I believe the best estimates are that at most it puts out 550 HP. Tesla is now releasing an "upgrade" that would get my car close to the HP it was originally supposed to make, but if I want it, I'll have to shell out somewhere in the neighborhood of $6500.

The way Tesla misrepresents things on their website and in their marketing is frustrating. When Musk spoke at the original D launch announcement he made it sound like all the autopilot features would be available when the first cars were delivered. One had to read the fine print on the website to realize that was not the case. Currently the website is even more misleading on this front to those not intimately familiar with the progression of the Tesla firmware versions.

The user interface, in many ways, is severely lacking. There are so many things it could do so much better if Tesla just spent more money on hiring more programmers, and put more time and effort in. The navigation system is a total joke. It was a joke before Musk's big range assurance announcement, and it's an even bigger joke now.

This is, by no means, a comprehensive list of the reasons my feelings have changed.

I am still generally happy with my car. I'm just not nearly as happy with it as I was when I received it, mainly because now every time I get in it I see a mismatched interior that I fear I'll be looking at for the next ten or fifteen years. (I keep cars a long time.) That really steams me, considering what I paid for the car. I feel like my trust has been violated.

So while I still like my car, I am no longer telling anyone who will listen how wonderful it is. I'm not going around bad-mouthing Tesla either. For the most part, I actually do still have lots of good things to say about Tesla and my car. I'm just not going out of the way to say them the way I had been, and my attitude is most definitely toned down from what it had been.

Tesla will wind up selling fewer six-figure cars because they didn't give me a $50 part. How stupid is that?
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Well said.
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alexrov said: ?

I'm confused. Is there some recent announcement or decision on Tesla's part that prompted you to post this poll?
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No.

In another thread I suggested that Tesla's actions were causing people like me and others who had been very pro-Tesla to not be as verbally supportive of Tesla as we had once been. Another poster basically said that was ridiculous, and implied that I could be the only person feeling that way, and that if there were others, they must be very few and far between. I decided to start this poll to find out who was right.

Here's my post in response to his: Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery - Page 86

alexrov said: ?

[/COLOR]Replying on the off chance that you don't know what that expression means; I don't have any comment on the content of your complaint.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" is used to indicate that the speaker's unusually strong arguments in a particular direction are meant to disguise thoughts in the opposite direction.

In other words, if he's talking to you, he's saying that you're being disingenuous in your complaint.
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Thank you.

Of course I'm familiar with the reference. That's why I asked what the poster meant by that, because it makes no sense as he used it. He would have had to have been suggesting that I pointed out all those very real issues, but was somehow doing so to get people to like Tesla more, which makes no sense whatsoever.

My best guess is that the poster who used the quote had no idea what it meant, was using it literally, and was trying to say I was complaining too much.
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I remain very positive about Tesla and its products 19 months after taking delivery of a new S85 and 9 months after becoming the owner of Roadster #425. I have had a terrific ownership experience so far! I became a shareholder and am hoping to install solar with a Powerwall next year.
That said, I am concerned about the Autopilot delay (even though it won't come to my S) but I consider it a minor hiccup. The arguing about how much power the various motor types generate and the issues with Next Gen seats and the optional Center Console seems overwrought.
I do think Tesla needs to improve customer communication in some areas and agree to a certain extent that the promotion of the Autopilot option has lead some people to expect too much, too soon. But once it is released that too will pass.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

No.

In another thread I suggested that Tesla's actions were causing people like me and others who had been very pro-Tesla to not be as verbally supportive of Tesla as we had once been. Another poster basically said that was ridiculous, and implied that I could be the only person feeling that way, and that if there were others, they must be very few and far between. I decided to start this poll to find out who was right.

Here's my post in response to his: Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery - Page 86

Thank you.

Of course I'm familiar with the reference. That's why I asked what the poster meant by that, because it makes no sense as he used it. He would have had to have been suggesting that I pointed out all those very real issues, but was somehow doing so to get people to like Tesla more, which makes no sense whatsoever.

My best guess is that the poster who used the quote had no idea what it meant, was using it literally, and was trying to say I was complaining too much.
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That would be a poor guess.

Yes, the classic interpretation is when someone strongly denies something they're covering up how they really feel.

You like that girl?

No. Who, me, what...no!

You like her. You protest too much.

(ASIDE - the meaning has changed; protest meant to affirm, not deny, in 17th c.)

I had in mind the modern vernacular we often see in newspaper & magazine articles, in which vehement protest/denial has the net effect that people conclude the opposite position must be true. For instance, the PotUS defends a policy decision (pick one, I don't want to digress) in numerous press conferences & stump speeches...and after awhile people begin to question the veracity of the statements being proclaimed.

It's not that I think you're being disingenuous, Andy. I have no doubt you feel genuinely disappointed and to some extent misled & wronged. What I think you (& other like minded owners) miss is that the complaints are so incessant in thread after thread that it somewhat devalues your position.

I'm actually quite sympathetic on the points you raised. I can't empathize because I'm not an owner yet, but your complaints are valid.

The center console saga was a complete fiasco. How could Teala screw up something so simple? The delays, limited to piano black, and the ultimate cancellation - it's a running joke of ineptitude. How could a forward thinking, high tech company fail so miserably on such a low tech device with very little complexity?

(ASIDE - some don't like this analogy, but I just ordered one of those 1:18 diecast models. I've heard this was actually designed internally by their own mechanical engineers - Tesla loves being vertical - and the detail is phenomenal. The person who was in charge of the center console should have lost their job, and replaced with the genius who built this 270 piece toy.)

I'm less inclined to agree with you on the 691 HP issue, but we have a few VERY long threads we could engage in that debate...and that conversation continues.

At any rate, my sub-optimal choice of indium was flippant and perhaps a bit disrespectful. I do apoligize as I could have explained myself better instead of just trying to be clever.
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BoerumHill said: ?

At any rate, my sub-optimal choice of indium was flippant and perhaps a bit disrespectful. I do apoligize as I could have explained myself better instead of just trying to be clever.
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Thanks for the explanation, the commiseration, and the apology!
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I'm basically as positive as I was to start with.

1. It's a car, not a panacea. (This was a problem in the Prius group as well.)

2. Tesla flew out a Ranger when the main charger failed on vacation--I actually lost no driving time although it could have been very different.

3. Service experience at the Service Centre has been above par. I wouldn't say perfect but much better than average. I especially appreciate the the folks who actually work on the car know me.

4. Other than the main charger and a triangle window adjustment (shortly after I got the car). A cable and charge port (about six months into ownership), an alignment, a 12V battery (about two years). There hasn't been any problems. Other than the charger, none actually affected operations. (The charge port operated backwards--that is it unlocked when the charge port door was closed, forcing the door open allowed a charge for the couple of days until it was fixed.)

5. Firmware, especially Nav and music have issues but it's been a two step forward one step back process. As long as things get generally better, I don't see any particular problem.

At ~55K miles I don't seem to have many of the problems that are reported here (e.g. drive train, A/C, panel fit, contactor, etc.)
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BoerumHill said: ?

I had in mind the modern vernacular we often see in newspaper & magazine articles, in which vehement protest/denial has the net effect that people conclude the opposite position must be true. ... What I think you (& other like minded owners) miss is that the complaints are so incessant in thread after thread that it somewhat devalues your position.
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There are actually a few posters that I think do bang the drum on certain issues too loud and long, but I think this was an unreasonable place to make that case. Andy's response was on topic and had been specifically requested.

I'm conflicted between #1 and #3. My biggest reason doesn't get mentioned as often here, so maybe I can say it without risking you believing I'm actually persuading people of the opposite. I live about 120 miles from the nearest service center. I was very concerned about this before buying the car, but researched extensively and determined that the $99 service fee was more than a fair solution to the problem of very limited service centers. Unfortunately, a few months after I purchased the car the new fee turned into a $450 fee, which significantly changes the dynamic. I'd consider skipping some of the annual maintenance, but I already bought extra years of them. It affects my willingness to suggest to anyone in this area to buy one. Driving the car, though. Man, that is still a blast.
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LetsGoFast said: ?

There are actually a few posters that I think do bang the drum on certain issues too loud and long, but I think this was an unreasonable place to make that case. Andy's response was on topic and had been specifically requested.
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Thanks, LetsGoFast.

LetsGoFast said: ?

I'm conflicted between #1 and #3. My biggest reason doesn't get mentioned as often here, so maybe I can say it without risking you believing I'm actually persuading people of the opposite. I live about 120 miles from the nearest service center. I was very concerned about this before buying the car, but researched extensively and determined that the $99 service fee was more than a fair solution to the problem of very limited service centers. Unfortunately, a few months after I purchased the car the new fee turned into a $450 fee, which significantly changes the dynamic. I'd consider skipping some of the annual maintenance, but I already bought extra years of them. It affects my willingness to suggest to anyone in this area to buy one. Driving the car, though. Man, that is still a blast.
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This would be a huge issue for me as well, if Tesla attempts to apply it to me. I say that because I'm 213 miles from the nearest service center and had been told not only about the $99 ranger service, but that because of the distance I lived from the service centers, that $99 fee didn't apply. (My car was delivered to me at no extra charge because of the distance I live from the nearest service center.)

I certainly hope, for my own sake, that Tesla is sticking to that. And, of course, for the sake of anyone else in a similar situation.

I don't understand how Tesla can, in good faith, materially change the terms of the agreement after it has been purchased. The lawyers and Tesla supporters may come and post that the terms of the contract say the fee can be changed at any time, etc., etc., but I just don't buy that as the correct way to treat your customers.

I've actually purchased 8 years of annual service and the extended maintenance agreement. I bought everything I could to make sure that I'm covered going forward. I'm certainly not expecting to pay exorbitant transportation or ranger fees on top of that.
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I do not think my Tesla is perfect. No product I have ever purchased has been perfect. The closer something comes to being perfect the more i am inclined to point out deficiencies. So it is with my frequent complaints about my Tesla. It is only my extreme attachment to the car that makes me inclined to spend so much effort discussing improvements.

My inclination to sing the praises of the car and company are precisely because of continuous improvement and a brilliant basic execution.

Quoting a friend "the best is just barely good enough". More people should be so lucky as to have the niggling complaints about which we wax eloquent here at TMC.
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Came to see if the title and poll were going where it seemed the OP was taking it...and yup...I was correct.

Complaining is fine, but this seems a slightly melodramatic way of going about it.
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Lot's of great comments.

My guess is that a lot of the frustrations people express (which are understandable) come from the expectations. I DEFINITELY believe the Tesla website is very misleading. The folks who post/read this forum understand the current state of things but the average person going to the site would likely come away either confused or more likely misinformed. Sure they could read the fine print, do more research, etc. but it's not unreasonable for them to think they could read the site and basically understand the offering. To add to that, Elon's own comments often stretch the truth - to be polite.

Think some of it also seems to come from the prior experiences of the owners however. I'm a newbie to Tesla but a long time car guy. I've owned three Ferraris, a Maserati and 2 Porsche GT3s (among dozens of other Porsches, MBs, Audis and BMWs). I assure you that the issues people describe here about the Model S are similar in severity, surprise and frustration as the Ferraris. Ferrari doesn't give a rat's ass what owners think about things like $12K engine out belt services, clutches that are considered to be wear items, crappy electronics, switches and trim pieces that turn to goo, etc. If you've owned a 360 (or god forbid a 355) you know exactly what I'm talking about. Go visit ferrarichat.com if you doubt me.

My point is that one could argue that Tesla is in its own way just as exotic as a Ferrari. If that's the case, then some amount of BS is to be expected. AND, more importantly, the thrill component needs to overcome the BS factor. Trust me that a Ferrari is a constant source of pain and suffering offset by amazing drive time and Sunday brunches.

It's nearly impossible to find a perfect blend of bullet proof reliability and thrill IMHO. I remember being the first person to buy a 997TT from the Greensboro dealer. I thought that car would be the perfect mix. And in many ways it was. However in a very strange way I missed the issues, the quirkiness, the low grade anxiety that Ferrari brought me. There was nothing to post on Rennlist. The car just did what it was supposed to. Is that thrilling? Maybe yes, maybe no.

As to the question, I can't answer it for Tesla yet. But for Ferrari when people ask me about it I think I'm simply more informed and hopefully useful to them. I don't think it's more or less positive than before, but it's just more accurate. I suspect that's the case with most anything as complex as a Ferrari (or Tesla).

This is how I'm coming at the Tesla.
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With regard to changes that have been made to some of the service policies, Tesla is growing by leaps and bounds and deliveries are up over 50% YoY. That means that the service we received early on, when there were very few cars on the road, cannot scale as Tesla delivers more and more vehicles. Add Model X to the mix, and then a half million Model 3 deliveries by 2020, and you can see where this is headed.

Policies are bound to change on the service front due to growth and the need to service a larger installed base. As an early adopter in 2013, I understood this and expected policies to change over time. Tesla still bends over backwards and waives certain policies if it suits the situation and to make the customer happy. But we need to extend some understanding to Tesla in this area. The service is still top notch, in my opinion.
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Eh, big picture here. Yes, they could improve on things. (Communication!) But I have NEVER seen a company expand so quickly and with so few missteps as they have. Period. EVER. Let me give a little context...

Back in 2010, I fell in love with a certain car and took delivery of a Roadster Sport in 2011. The company was very small then & I was lucky enough to get to know several people personally. And then it all exploded. The NUMMI site was purchased for pennies on the dollar, with equipment, Elon & staff pulled one rabbit after another out of a hat. And at that time, I was in a director position at a Fortune 100 company, where as part of my job, I evaluated companies as potential acquisitions. I like to think I was somewhat good at that (my employer did).

It was at the point of the factory acquisition (and well before Model S deliveries) that I realized that IF I had any faith in my ability to evaluate a company, I needed to place a big bet on Tesla. Quite simply, I had never been so impressed with a company's management, execution, and product as I was with Tesla. So I placed that bet. I had insight to their management at all levels, heck, I even had an inspiring conversation with the shuttle bus driver one day. I'd never EVER run into a company where every single person actually shared the vision of the top person. (Sure, lots of lip service - but this was a first.) The customer service I experienced and continue to experience was phenomenal. The product. Ohh the product. How they handled their limited funds was impressive

So sure. they make some missteps. But I continue to be blown away by the company and am happy to have a front row seat watching them change the world. And they are changing the world. We've all witnessed how the conversation has changed, because of the existence of Tesla.

All that said, that doesn't mean I just give them a pass on everything and anything. I wouldn't do that for any company. And it's not how they make themselves better. We all have different ways of handling things. I don't find the forum route to be particularly effective, but I know others feel better when posting.

But do I sing Tesla's praises? HECK YEAH! What other company inspires such passion among its owners? And what other company is so set on changing the world while supplying roller coaster rides to customers?
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bonnie said: ?

Eh, big picture here. Yes, they could improve on things. (Communication!) But I have NEVER seen a company expand so quickly and with so few missteps as they have. Period. EVER. Let me give a little context...

Back in 2010, I fell in love with a certain car and took delivery of a Roadster Sport in 2011. The company was very small then & I was lucky enough to get to know several people personally. And then it all exploded. The NUMMI site was purchased for pennies on the dollar, with equipment, Elon & staff pulled one rabbit after another out of a hat. And at that time, I was in a director position at a Fortune 100 company, where as part of my job, I evaluated companies as potential acquisitions. I like to think I was somewhat good at that (my employer did).

It was at the point of the factory acquisition (and well before Model S deliveries) that I realized that IF I had any faith in my ability to evaluate a company, I needed to place a big bet on Tesla. Quite simply, I had never been so impressed with a company's management, execution, and product as I was with Tesla. So I placed that bet. I had insight to their management at all levels, heck, I even had an inspiring conversation with the shuttle bus driver one day. I'd never EVER run into a company where every single person actually shared the vision of the top person. (Sure, lots of lip service - but this was a first.) The customer service I experienced and continue to experience was phenomenal. The product. Ohh the product. How they handled their limited funds was impressive

So sure. they make some missteps. But I continue to be blown away by the company and am happy to have a front row seat watching them change the world. And they are changing the world. We've all witnessed how the conversation has changed, because of the existence of Tesla.

All that said, that doesn't mean I just give them a pass on everything and anything. I wouldn't do that for any company. And it's not how they make themselves better. We all have different ways of handling things. I don't find the forum route to be particularly effective, but I know others feel better when posting.

But do I sing Tesla's praises? HECK YEAH! What other company inspires such passion among its owners? And what other company is so set on changing the world while supplying roller coaster rides to customers?
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What Tesla has done in the last five years is nothing short of amazing... Design a class-leading electric car with a practical range and mind-blowing performance; buy a factory, hundreds of robots, and figure out how to start manufacturing this new car; build out an international fast-charge network; build out an international service network; fight the auto dealership lobby in almost every state for the right to sell their car; overcome Wall Street criticisms and doubts; continue evolving the product line and software; respond to the unexpected (battery fires) with poise and grace; place a $5 billion bet on battery factory to make Model 3 affordable; and much more...

When I look back at all Tesla has done in the last few years, it blows my mind. And Tesla continues executing well, more or less. Of course they could always improve this or that, but let's put things in perspective. My god, they continue to achieve the impossible!
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Andy, I need a poll option that's a variant of option 1

Fundamentally, I still feel the same way about Tesla as I did over 5 years ago when I put my Model S reservation down. They are a company on the path to changing the world for the better. I admire their mission, innovation and hard work. I've always received first class treatment from them during the purchase process (two times around) and all service experiences. When I endured a personal mishap and lost my first Model S in the process, the way they reached out to me and my family reinforced that bond.

But... how I talk about Tesla with others has subtly changed. I'm more circumspect about talking Tesla in non-Tesla-fangirl/boy circles. There are a few reasons for that:

1) Tesla is still stuck in the "1% of 1%" space (I know that many of us think otherwise). Until the Model 3 is out, I'd rather the company and its products speak for themselves rather than me being a spokesperson of sorts (Tesla never asked me to, of course).

2) Tesla is definitely enduring a lot of growing pains and I fear that these will get progressively worse with what would be a very popular offering in the Model X and then, of course, the Model 3 that is sure to sell like gangbusters. I'm referring to long wait times for service appointments, queuing up at busy Superchargers, and yes, delayed delivery of features that are being promised too far in advance. On that last front, personally, I'd rather Tesla publicize prominently (on their website, and when Elon speaks/tweets) what's available today and let the fine print refer to what might be possible tomorrow rather than the other way around. I'm also not in favor of having all that gas savings math out there.

3) Service: this has been discussed to death for sure: I feel that Tesla has not gotten their story straight on "EVs cost far less to maintain than ICEs" and "our Service centers are not meant to turn a profit" what with an exorbitant annual service fee that doesn't even cover wheel alignment now.

All said and done, I'm still in the camp that wants to cut them some slack as they grow at breakneck speed while, at the same time, try to hold them accountable for certain missteps.
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JohnSnowNW said: ?

Came to see if the title and poll were going where it seemed the OP was taking it...and yup...I was correct.

Complaining is fine, but this seems a slightly melodramatic way of going about it.
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I already explained upthread that I posted this poll in response to a poster in a different thread suggesting that I was alone, or basically alone, in my views. The poll responses indicate otherwise.

As for my "taking" the poll in any particular direction, I did my best to make the poll as objective as possible. I worded the questions and the answer options as objectively as I could. I included nothing in the opening post to sway people either way. I didn't even post my own views, even though many people were posting their views, until someone specifically asked for the reasons someone who chose option 3 would have chosen option 3.

I also did not post links to this poll in all sorts of threads where people have been complaining about one thing or another. (If I were trying to influence the results, that would have been an obvious approach to take.) The only thread I posted this thread's link in is linked above, and that thread probably has a lot more people posting in support of Tesla than people posting with complaints about Tesla. In any case, I had to post the link in that thread, because a post in that thread was the reason I started the poll.

If you can suggest a way I could have worded this poll to make it more objective, I'd certainly be interested in hearing it.

You are correct that I was hoping there would be posters other than me selecting option 3--I've said as much--but if you somehow inferred that from how the thread and the poll were set up, I maintain that was just a good guess on your part.

AmpedRealtor said: ?

Policies are bound to change on the service front due to growth and the need to service a larger installed base. As an early adopter in 2013, I understood this and expected policies to change over time. Tesla still bends over backwards and waives certain policies if it suits the situation and to make the customer happy. But we need to extend some understanding to Tesla in this area.
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It's one thing to change the policies for new customers, going forward. It's an entirely different thing to change the policies after the fact, retroactively and unilaterally, for customers who already purchased their vehicles.
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bonnie said: ?

All that said, that doesn't mean I just give them a pass on everything and anything. I wouldn't do that for any company. And it's not how they make themselves better. We all have different ways of handling things. I don't find the forum route to be particularly effective, but I know others feel better when posting.
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Personally Tesla top-management in Norway has simply stopped replying to me, and my interactions with them has been nothing but curtious. Jerome also gave me the silent-treatment after initially responding to my first email to him in February. So I have a bad feeling your long relationship with Tesla has given you an unrealisitc view of what new customers these days actually face. That is what has caused me to stop "selling" Teslas the way I used to. My experience so far has been abysmal in terms of service where it matters. Situation here in Norway at least is only getting worse in that regard.

This is mostly in relation to still not having the correct seats in my car now 5months after delivery. But false claims and missing features just add to the irritation-levels.

For me the forum is just venting of frustration at the moment, I expect no outcome from it other than informing others of what to look out for.

Car is still brilliant, communications and service though are far from it.... All kinds of mixed feelings as I love the car but starting to really dislike the company and how they handle themselves.

Of course some employees have been very servicemindend but that doesnt really help when top-management doesnt let them do anything.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

It's one thing to change the policies for new customers, going forward. It's an entirely different thing to change the policies after the fact, retroactively and unilaterally, for customers who already purchased their vehicles.
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Which policies are we talking about?
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gg_got_a_tesla said: ?

Andy, I need a poll option that's a variant of option 1
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I know, based on the smiley, that you were kidding, but for anyone else reading I'll point out that there is no way to add options to a poll once it has started.

Incidentally, there's also no way to edit--even minimally--the answers. I understand why--it would be inappropriate to edit the answers once people have responded. But it was frustrating, because as soon as I posted, I wanted to add the missing period after the last option. It had been there originally. (You'll have to trust me on that.) The answers are limited to 100 characters. My original answers were all more than 100 characters. Somehow in editing I lost that period. (You can't see the entire "answer" option at one time, but rather just a portion of it. I'll blame my carelessness on that.)

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AmpedRealtor said: ?

Which policies are we talking about?
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I don't have first-hand knowledge of this one, but LetsGoFast was talking (upthread) about a policy change that would see the ranger fee go from $99 to $450 per visit, and was saying that it applied to him, retroactively.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

I already explained upthread that I posted this poll in response to a poster in a different thread suggesting that I was alone, or basically alone, in my views. The poll responses indicate otherwise.

As for my "taking" the poll in any particular direction, I did my best to make the poll as objective as possible. I worded the questions and the answer options as objectively as I could. I included nothing in the opening post to sway people either way. I didn't even post my own views, even though many people were posting their views, until someone specifically asked for the reasons someone who chose option 3 would have chosen option 3.

If you can suggest a way I could have worded this poll to make it more objective, I'd certainly be interested in hearing it.

You are correct that I was hoping there would be posters other than me selecting option 3--I've said as much--but if you somehow inferred that from how the thread and the poll were set up, I maintain that was just a good guess on your part.
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I'm not that good a guesser. The way it was worded, and not leaving your impressions on the first post basically gave it away.

You posted your thoughts on the very first page, so if you were trying not to steer it in a specific direction then I would have waited a bit longer. That said, it was clear you had an agenda with the first post.

You should have just posted your feeling on the matter, instead of it looking as though you were simply waiting for someone to ask...so you could unload. Anyway, that's the way it came across, whether you actively meant it to or not.

Either way, I'm not trying to say you have no right to your opinion, or that you're even wrong,...just that your attempt to mask your resentment wasn't successful. So, you should have just aired it in the first post.
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bonnie said: ?

Eh, big picture here. Yes, they could improve on things. (Communication!) But I have NEVER seen a company expand so quickly and with so few missteps as they have. Period. EVER. Let me give a little context...

All that said, that doesn't mean I just give them a pass on everything and anything. I wouldn't do that for any company. And it's not how they make themselves better. We all have different ways of handling things. I don't find the forum route to be particularly effective, but I know others feel better when posting.

But do I sing Tesla's praises? HECK YEAH! What other company inspires such passion among its owners? And what other company is so set on changing the world while supplying roller coaster rides to customers?
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Thanks for the insightful, as usual, post, Bonnie.

For the record, I too have also often written to various people at Tesla directly, and some of the time, at least, I think perhaps that communication has made a difference.

I'd probably feel much more like you do about Tesla if I didn't feel like I was doomed to drive around with a mismatched interior for the next ten years.
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tstafford said: ?

Lot's of great comments.

My guess is that a lot of the frustrations people express (which are understandable) come from the expectations. I DEFINITELY believe the Tesla website is very misleading. The folks who post/read this forum understand the current state of things but the average person going to the site would likely come away either confused or more likely misinformed. Sure they could read the fine print, do more research, etc. but it's not unreasonable for them to think they could read the site and basically understand the offering. To add to that, Elon's own comments often stretch the truth - to be polite.

.....
My point is that one could argue that Tesla is in its own way just as exotic as a Ferrari. If that's the case, then some amount of BS is to be expected. AND, more importantly, the thrill component needs to overcome the BS factor. Trust me that a Ferrari is a constant source of pain and suffering offset by amazing drive time and Sunday brunches.

......
This is how I'm coming at the Tesla.
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Absolutely agree that it's all about expectations. See my other post on this. I take the realistic attitude that as a relatively new car company Tesla has made some rookie mistakes in PR but it's also made a number of brilliant moves. Actually after some time it's possible to discount their hyperbole by about the right amount so they meet expectations exactly

but I don't agree that Tesla is or can be like a Ferrari. Ferrari owners are a rare breed that are to a great extent willing to tolerate a lot of compromises on dimensions other than driving performance. They are not typical car owners.

Although the initial wave of Tesla buyers are also inspired by the combination of innovative ness, performance and eco friendliness that Tesla exemplifies, they will not suffice for the next two legs(Model X and 3). This new audience is mass market. Tesla will not find them nearly as forgiving of hyperbole, over promising, and design compromises on convenience. In other words, going forward, the thrill component cannot overcome the BS factor.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

I don't have first-hand knowledge of this one, but LetsGoFast was talking (upthread) about a policy change that would see the ranger fee go from $99 to $450 per visit, and was saying that it applied to him, retroactively.
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To be fair, Tesla allowed customers to buy a pre-paid Ranger plan. Those pre-paid plans were for $100 per visit. I don't think that has changed for people who bought that plan. Just like the alignments are still included for those who bought the pre-paid service. If the Ranger fee is changing, it is for those who did not pre-pay. Tesla raises prices on things like extended warranties and service visits because those are non-contractual. I suspect the increase to the Ranger fee falls under the same category, unless, of course, you pre-paid.

I heard from a reliable source within Tesla that they are trying to push people towards pre-paid service. That's why the alignment was decoupled from the $600 pay-at-the-door price. Tesla wants to discourage pay-at-the-door. Based on some of the thread posts I've read about the annual service, the strategy seems to be working.
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

I heard from a reliable source within Tesla that they are trying to push people towards pre-paid service. That's why the alignment was decoupled from the $600 pay-at-the-door price. Tesla wants to discourage pay-at-the-door. Based on some of the thread posts I've read about the annual service, the strategy seems to be working. Sounds like Tesla needs cash! lol
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Of course, it could also be that Tesla doesn't want to deal with the complaints about charges (the cash kind) that non-prepaid service will have. Prepaid service eliminates most of those.
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

To be fair, Tesla allowed customers to buy a pre-paid Ranger plan. Those pre-paid plans were for $100 per visit. I don't think that has changed for people who bought that plan. Just like the alignments are still included for those who bought the pre-paid service. If the Ranger fee is changing, it is for those who did not pre-pay. Tesla raises prices on things like extended warranties and service visits because those are non-contractual. I suspect the increase to the Ranger fee falls under the same category, unless, of course, you pre-paid.
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I'm pretty sure the plan you are talking about was no longer offered at the time I was purchasing my car. One rep on the phone, before realizing how remotely I lived from any service centers, had given me the $99 per ranger visit number when I had asked about how I'd get service. Later, someone in person told me the $99 did not apply to me, because I was more than 200 miles from a service center, so ranger visits would be at no charge. And again--no one has yet told me otherwise.

But all of that not withstanding, the ability to get service is an integral part of a car purchase. For those of us who live a good distance from any service center, the ranger service was touted as the answer to "how do we get service", and part of that answer for many of us included the $99 charge that went along with the ranger service. To quadruple or quintuple that charge, while perhaps allowed contractually, is not the customer-service oriented way to approach things.
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

To be fair, Tesla allowed customers to buy a pre-paid Ranger plan.
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Unlimited ranger service, prepaid. For 8 years. (4 years was also available.) I bought it. It's being honored.

But Tesla IS NOT SELLING the prepaid Ranger plan any more.

AmpedRealtor said: ?

I heard from a reliable source within Tesla that they are trying to push people towards pre-paid service
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Well, that's an abject failure then, isn't it? You can't push people toward pre-paid service by NOT OFFERING IT.

Tesla's new proposal is to charge $600 (or is it $1200? Not clear to me) for every single service visit by someone in Ithaca (200 miles away from SC), just for the transportation. Apparently including for warranty service?!? Unacceptable risk of unlimited service costs, and so I'll be telling people not to buy the car.

There are some real morons in Tesla management...

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Andyw2100 said: ?

Later, someone in person told me the $99 did not apply to me, because I was more than 200 miles from a service center, so ranger visits would be at no charge.
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This needs to be formal, published Tesla policy, part of the warranty and the sales contract and so on. I think that would settle most worries. We already know that some of the service centers have been telling people at great distances that they will be charged astronomical sums for Ranger/Valet service (such as the poor fellow in Newfoundland).

It's still the best car in the world, but if you can't get it repaired under warranty economically, you shouldn't buy it, and that's what I'm going to be telling people until Tesla issues a suitable clarification.
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I know Tesla monitors the forums... I kind of hope they take note of this poll...
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wk057 said: ?

I know Tesla monitors the forums... I kind of hope they take note of this poll...
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If they do, they should realize that I think for many of us selecting Option 3, it wouldn't take all that much to turn us around to the point where if a poll like this was taken again six months or a year from now, we might select option 2 as our answer.

The most frustrating thing about it for me is that at least in my mind, the things that changed how I felt were essentially things that did not have big costs associated with them. They were things handled poorly, that could have been handled better, or later corrected.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not a situation where, at least in my mind, a lot of the option 3 people are selecting option 3 because of, say, an engineering problem, like, for example, the one that exists (or existed) with the early contactors and / or the 12V batteries. I can see problems like that being very hard to solve, and costly to get to the bottom of, and I think, for the most part, we all can, and we're willing to cut Tesla slack on those kinds of things, for all the reasons the supporters give for supporting Tesla. But the communications problems cost next to nothing to fix. How much would it have cost Tesla to explain the efficiency issue and the fact that our P85Ds were being delivered without torque sleep --BEFORE-- we started taking delivery instead of months afterwards? It's not like we weren't going to notice! Instead, we were all left in the dark, wondering what was wrong with our cars.

For me, it's that kind of thing, over and over and over again. If anyone from Tesla is reading, I, for one, know it can be fixed!
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@Andyw2100

forum says

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Andyw2100 again.
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last post is exactly my feelings! Minor details that annoys the hell out of me at times, and could have been so easily avoided!
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

To be fair, Tesla allowed customers to buy a pre-paid Ranger plan. Those pre-paid plans were for $100 per visit. I don't think that has changed for people who bought that plan. Just like the alignments are still included for those who bought the pre-paid service. If the Ranger fee is changing, it is for those who did not pre-pay. Tesla raises prices on things like extended warranties and service visits because those are non-contractual. I suspect the increase to the Ranger fee falls under the same category, unless, of course, you pre-paid.
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Unfortunately, pre-paid ranger service wasn't offered at the time I purchased. I bought everything they would sell me in terms of pre-paid service. In the interest of full disclosure, I should also mention that although I was advised that the new policy was to charge $450 instead of $99, they elected to waive the fee the only time I've needed service so I don't really have a reason to complain at this time. I just sort of have a potential reason to complain if they ever do enforce the policy that they have told me about.

I'd also say that even though I am less happy than I was initially, I wouldn't say that I am in any way unhappy. On balance, I'd still buy the car again in a second. It is beautiful, screamingly fast and I really do believe represents a big leap forward towards the future of automobiles. They are still super-uncommon in my area and I end up talking to people about it nearly every single day and for the most part I'd say I'm still a cheerleader. But I am troubled about retro-actively changing the rules. I have no problem with the fact that free ranger service or pre-paid ranger service was no longer available to me, I knew that when I bought the car. I'd even be fine with the rate going from $99 to $150 or something, but a jump to $400+ is a pretty big one.

Due to a bit of laziness, I still haven't sold my 911 or Supra and I still struggle to force myself to drive either one. I'd much rather be in the Tesla, every single time.
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wk057 said: ?

I know Tesla monitors the forums... I kind of hope they take note of this poll...
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I choose option 3 & my service center knows how I feel.

Andy, thanks for setting up the poll!
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I feel the same way both immediately after I received my car and now, 14 months later. Tesla does amazing things, and I extol those amazing things when asked. But as others have pointed out, I also try to be objective when it comes to the announcements and other promotional claims that they make. Sometimes what Tesla promotes and reality are diametrically different. I would feel more comfortable if Tesla were to tone some things down a notch until they were real and not anticipated. But sometimes we all get carried away with enthusiasm!

Tesla is in an uncommon manufacturing arena: They are selling a highly sophisticated and complex automobile at retail that has an incredible amount of computer hardware and software incorporated into its functionality. I do not know the experience in Tesla's executive management, but I would hope that they have some heavy hitters who come from retail--preferably manufacturing products sold to end users. I believe that there is a difference is customer relations and service between the computer software and hardware industries as compared to the manufacture of household and personal items. It seems to me that Tesla is more focused on the former, while I believe they should give more consideration to the latter.
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I wanted to vote for all three.

- Over the last 3 months I went from ignorant and skeptical to informed and awed. Hence Choice 2.

- On the other hand, I've come to realize that Tesla and Elon are very much given to jumping the gun, missing promised dates, overpromising on occasion, and being misleading at times. This forum has also taught me the cars aren't perfect. Hence Choice 3.

- But bottom line, this is overall an awesome company with an awesome futuristic product that exceeds everything else by a clear margin on a bunch of dimensions, performance, range, safety, update capability, etc. Yet by now the hype matches the reality, whether it's the website or the sales staff or the stock price or even this very forum. Choice #1!!!

Hence all all things considered, I acknowledge the validity of people feeling like they need to pick 2 or 3, but after the first coup,e of oscillations, they damped and I'm very comfortably settled in option 1.
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neroden said: ?

Well, that's an abject failure then, isn't it? You can't push people toward pre-paid service by NOT OFFERING IT.
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I was simply reiterating what I was told by someone at Tesla. It sounds like their push is to get more people to pre-pay for service, obviously, since the ranger plan is no longer available.

Tesla's new proposal is to charge $600 (or is it $1200? Not clear to me) for every single service visit by someone in Ithaca (200 miles away from SC), just for the transportation. Apparently including for warranty service?!? Unacceptable risk of unlimited service costs, and so I'll be telling people not to buy the car.
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Is this different than it was before? I've always cautioned people AWAY from buying this car if they are more than 50 miles from a service center. I don't know any other car company that offers free transportation for warranty service if the car is 200 miles from a dealership. I'm not familiar with Tesla's policy here, which is why I'm asking. I live 50 miles from my service center and don't encounter these types of issues.
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I need to amend my earlier post where I talked about why I was supportive of the company.

I just returned from a weekend roadtrip in a loaner Model S (my Roadster is receiving upgraded PEM fans). OMG! The BEST CAR EVER. I was supportive before. But I drove 800 miles yesterday, supercharging the whole way home, zero problems, best drive I've ever had. I love my Roadster but I don't know how I can ever take it on a roadtrip again.

Bjeebuz. I'm like a kid at Christmas. I've had a Model S for plenty of days, but never on a long roadtrip before. Holy )(@#*. You guys are super spoiled.

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bonnie said: ?

I need to amend my earlier post where I talked about why I was supportive of the company.

I just returned from a weekend roadtrip in a loaner Model S (my Roadster is receiving upgraded PEM fans). OMG! The BEST CAR EVER. I was supportive before. But I drove 800 miles yesterday, supercharging the whole way home, zero problems, best drive I've ever had. I love my Roadster but I don't know how I can ever take it on a roadtrip again.

Bjeebuz. I'm like a kid at Christmas. I've had a Model S for plenty of days, but never on a long roadtrip before. Holy )(@#*. You guys are super spoiled.

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I have never driven a roadster before and wanted to try but after reading your post ...I will stick with my MS...Thanks Bonnie:biggrin:
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

Is this different than it was before? I've always cautioned people AWAY from buying this car if they are more than 50 miles from a service center. I don't know any other car company that offers free transportation for warranty service if the car is 200 miles from a dealership. I'm not familiar with Tesla's policy here, which is why I'm asking. I live 50 miles from my service center and don't encounter these types of issues.
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If Tesla is actually enforcing this, it is definitely different than before.

I wrote the following upthread, in a response to one of your posts:

Andyw2100 said: ?

I'm pretty sure the plan you are talking about was no longer offered at the time I was purchasing my car. One rep on the phone, before realizing how remotely I lived from any service centers, had given me the $99 per ranger visit number when I had asked about how I'd get service. Later, someone in person told me the $99 did not apply to me, because I was more than 200 miles from a service center, so ranger visits would be at no charge. And again--no one has yet told me otherwise.

But all of that not withstanding, the ability to get service is an integral part of a car purchase. For those of us who live a good distance from any service center, the ranger service was touted as the answer to "how do we get service", and part of that answer for many of us included the $99 charge that went along with the ranger service. To quadruple or quintuple that charge, while perhaps allowed contractually, is not the customer-service oriented way to approach things.
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As for how this applies to being transported to the service center, I was also told, by a regional service manager, that the service center actually preferred to come get my car and bring it back to me because they could send a fairly low level person out to do that, as opposed to having to send a much higher level service tech (the "ranger") out on the long drive. It is more efficient for Tesla that way because the tech isn't wasting time driving.
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taurusking said: ?

I have never driven a roadster before and wanted to try but after reading your post ...I will stick with my MS...Thanks Bonnie:biggrin:
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Well don't get me wrong. You'll never get me to sell my Roadster. It's got soul. Great for day trips. But the whole Supercharging option and air suspension and ROOM and display ... makes Model S Master of the Roadtrip.

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Oh. And TACC. That definitely made the trip more relaxing.
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bonnie said: ?

Oh. And TACC. That definitely made the trip more relaxing.
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Just imagine how relaxing it would have been with lane keeping! (Ducking!)
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Andyw2100 said: ?

Just imagine how relaxing it would have been with lane keeping! (Ducking!)
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I dunno. Too much at once, I think. It's coming. Seriously, the whole car is a thing of wonder. You guys lost a TON of sympathy from me over the last 800 miles yesterday. Just sayin'.

(And I love the yacht floor, perfect for that whole purse-thing. Did it match? Dunno. It had mah stuff all over it!!)
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bonnie said: ?

(And I love the yacht floor, perfect for that whole purse-thing. Did it match? Dunno. It had mah stuff all over it!!)
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You and my wife should get together. Whenever I complain about the mismatched console she points out that she lost the place she liked to keep her purse, and didn't want it (the console) in the first place!
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bonnie said: ?

... Holy )(@#*. You guys are super spoiled.

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You're completely right! That is why we are entitled to bitterly complain if we can find anything substantial that is missing. OMG, we don't even have grab Bars. What horror!:cursing: and that's not all; we don't have coat hooks either!:cursing: Worse, we're actually expected to drive these things; they don't drive themselves. Now seriously, how agonising are those horrible things!?:crying: Worst of all there is nothing in the world we'd rather drive so we are stuck with all those problems...
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Andyw2100 said: ?

You and my wife should get together. Whenever I complain about the mismatched console she points out that she lost the place she liked to keep her purse, and didn't want it (the console) in the first place!
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With the open space so great for purses, I wonder why people say the Model S wasn't designed with women in mind and the Model X will have more features geared towards women owners.
I don't know what people are wanting the center console for except out of habit. Think of all the things we used to keep in center consoles that we don't carry around in cars anymore-- maps, tapes or CDs, change. There's room in the shelf under the center screen for sunglasses case and there's always the glove compartment for a little closed storage.
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Based on the fine posts from bonnie and TexsEV, we've found a cure for Andyw2100's insomnia.

Andy, if Momma's not happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy. Just rip that dang thing out and throw it in the loft space of your garage. Don't store it in the corner! You'll still see it everyday and get aggravated all over again. Then admit that you - not Tesla - were wrong. Tell your wife that (once again) she was right, never should have ordered that stupid center console in the first place.

Voil�! Problem solved.
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wk057 said: ?

I know Tesla monitors the forums... I kind of hope they take note of this poll...
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Putting all the typical problems with simple instant polls aside....the current results have 38% just as happy as ever and 35% happier than before, but only 27% less happy. So despite the frustrations around firmware releases the poll is indicating that Tesla is doing the right thing often enough, although they aren't perfect and do have room for improvement.

To quote John Lydgate:

�You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can�t please all of the people all of the time�
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BoerumHill said: ?

Based on the fine posts from bonnie and TexsEV, we've found a cure for Andyw2100's insomnia.

Andy, if Momma's not happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy. Just rip that dang thing out and throw it in the loft space of your garage. Don't store it in the corner! You'll still see it everyday and get aggravated all over again. Then admit that you - not Tesla - were wrong. Tell your wife that (once again) she was right, never should have ordered that stupid center console in the first place.

Voil�! Problem solved.
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You'll get bonus points for telling her she was right. Work it, Andy.
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NigelM said: ?

Putting all the typical problems with simple instant polls aside....the current results have 38% just as happy as ever and 35% happier than before, but only 27% less happy. So despite the frustrations around firmware releases the poll is indicating that Tesla is doing the right thing often enough, although they aren't perfect and do have room for improvement.

To quote John Lydgate:
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I prefer George Bush's quote: "You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."
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NigelM said: ?

Putting all the typical problems with simple instant polls aside....the current results have 38% just as happy as ever and 35% happier than before, but only 27% less happy. So despite the frustrations around firmware releases the poll is indicating that Tesla is doing the right thing often enough, although they aren't perfect and do have room for improvement.

To quote John Lydgate:
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Well, unhappy customers are potentially a lot more dangerous for a company than the happy ones. So 27% or even 5% here could be really bad for Tesla. The company I work for track this daily via net promoter scoring to catch unhappy customers before they potentially start spreading negatives about us. I know Tesla has tried similar, proactively contacting forum-users, but in the much discussed cases here they have not done the necessary efforts in my mind.

Had my deparment gotten 27% negative rating in such a scoring session we would be at red alert asap....

As mentioned many times before I find it truly amazing that the comms-department at Tesla is still making the same mistakes over and over again. They have managed to turn some of their biggest promoters into hesitant/annoyed/etc owners reluctant to sing their praises anymore. That is just sad. I know of 4 lost sales in Norway due to me personally not wanting to recommend the car to those people based on their willingness to accept Tesla-sidefeffects....
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BoerumHill said: ?

Based on the fine posts from bonnie and TexsEV, we've found a cure for Andyw2100's insomnia.

Andy, if Momma's not happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy. Just rip that dang thing out and throw it in the loft space of your garage. Don't store it in the corner! You'll still see it everyday and get aggravated all over again. Then admit that you - not Tesla - were wrong. Tell your wife that (once again) she was right, never should have ordered that stupid center console in the first place.

Voil�! Problem solved.
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bonnie said: ?

You'll get bonus points for telling her she was right. Work it, Andy.
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Well, one problem would be that my wife would immediately be suspicious that some alien had inhabited my body. So that could be an issue...

What I like about the center console is that it allows the car to have a clean and uncluttered look, with our charging cables hidden away. For now, they are really the only thing that would always be out in the open if the console wasn't there. We're not yet permanently storing anything else in the console. The cup holders aren't an issue because there's no drinking in the car. I do like knowing we have some space to store things if we need to, though.

And of course removing the console also isn't an option now because of the holes it would leave. The holes would certainly bother me as much or more than the piano black does.
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darthy001 said: ?

Well, unhappy customers are potentially a lot more dangerous for a company than the happy ones.

Had my department gotten 27% negative rating in such a scoring session we would be at red alert asap....
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+1. I would say that 27% negative is not something to be ignored, but should be something taken seriously by Tesla.
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A friend of mine used to tell me, "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things..."

Words to live by.

When you look at the complaints that are apparently adequate to equate to 'dissatisfaction', ponder how many of them are really quite petty in the grand scheme of things. Late software... Anybody die? Mis-matched console... did it cause an Ebola outbreak? Hmmm.... faulty ignition switches... did anybody die? Well, actually they did. And there was a cover-up. And management didn't give a crap. And it wasn't Tesla. Didn't seem to phase the consumer either as they're still buying those inferior products.

I'm sure the day will come when I'm annoyed about my car or something Tesla has done to me. But I intend to keep it in perspective. They're the first upstart car company to survive since... Chrysler? 90 years ago? AND, their car building program is just a means to an end. What end would that be? Huge profits? Well, that would be nice, but the real end they're looking to achieve is actually *avoiding* the end... they're trying to change the world. Not exactly a small or trivial task.

I'll put up with an over-zealous CEO who's clearly an engineer at heart rather than a PR expert - he speaks what he believes, not what has been carefully scripted, something I find refreshing. He tends to over-promise (or perhaps more correctly, 'prematurely promise'), but I can live with that, because I'm lied to by politicians and big corporations about more important things than AutoPilot, on a daily basis.

Changing the world doesn't happen without a few ripples and bumps along the way.

I'll continue to sell the virtues of the company whenever I have the opportunity, as long as Tesla remains true to their cause. The complaints made are more likely a result of the company being pulled in too many directions at once. I don't think anyone at Tesla has ever said, "we aren't going to address that complaint because we simply don't give a rodent's rectum." I think they'd like to solve every problem, but it's hardly realistic. Start with the big ones and work down to the smaller ones as time allows.

When they stop wanting and trying to do better, THEN I'll have a complaint.
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A couple of very vocal people can cause problems for a company. So that gets to another question - should a company be held hostage to a few? A forum is a great bully pulpit. It's public. It's like leaving a negative restaurant review on yelp that totally skews the overall perception for people checking reviews in the future.

I'm not judging the fairness here. But I am saying this isn't exactly representative of the customer population. It might be more, it might be less - Tesla probably knows first hand what the numbers are. We do not.

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beeeerock said: ?

A friend of mine used to tell me, "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things..."

Words to live by.

When you look at the complaints that are apparently adequate to equate to 'dissatisfaction', ponder how many of them are really quite petty in the grand scheme of things. Late software... Anybody die? Mis-matched console... did it cause an Ebola outbreak? Hmmm.... faulty ignition switches... did anybody die? Well, actually they did. And there was a cover-up. And management didn't give a crap. And it wasn't Tesla. Didn't seem to phase the consumer either as they're still buying those inferior products.

I'm sure the day will come when I'm annoyed about my car or something Tesla has done to me. But I intend to keep it in perspective. They're the first upstart car company to survive since... Chrysler? 90 years ago? AND, their car building program is just a means to an end. What end would that be? Huge profits? Well, that would be nice, but the real end they're looking to achieve is actually *avoiding* the end... they're trying to change the world. Not exactly a small or trivial task.

I'll put up with an over-zealous CEO who's clearly an engineer at heart rather than a PR expert - he speaks what he believes, not what has been carefully scripted, something I find refreshing. He tends to over-promise (or perhaps more correctly, 'prematurely promise'), but I can live with that, because I'm lied to by politicians and big corporations about more important things than AutoPilot, on a daily basis.

Changing the world doesn't happen without a few ripples and bumps along the way.

I'll continue to sell the virtues of the company whenever I have the opportunity, as long as Tesla remains true to their cause. The complaints made are more likely a result of the company being pulled in too many directions at once. I don't think anyone at Tesla has ever said, "we aren't going to address that complaint because we simply don't give a rodent's rectum." I think they'd like to solve every problem, but it's hardly realistic. Start with the big ones and work down to the smaller ones as time allows.

When they stop wanting and trying to do better, THEN I'll have a complaint.
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Amen.

(And yes, that was on purpose .)

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I am less happy ?? i love the car, after 13 months of ownership, but... I cannot trust the company strategy. Timing means nothing. I am in the Montreal area and we have waited almost a year for a Supercharger. We still do not know if we will be able to reach the Albany SC this winter. But I sort of knew that on purchase so I live with it.

But as more and more cars are sold, it takes a lot of time to schedule a visit to the Service Center. It will get worse over time when more cars are on the road and Tesla does not allow others to do basic maintenance on the cars. That also I can live with. I already have my november appointment for my winter tires.

but.... The navigation system is a pity. A 100 $ TomTom or Garmin is much more flexible and accurate. There is no way to adjust driving preferences. It still insists on taking me ta a SuperCharger when I know none is needed for my trip. And let me mention the Media system. A very basic MP3 player has more features. Has Tesla ever heard of Playlists? These things could be soved by simple software changes ( evTripPlanner is well made by a student !!! )

did I mention the web browser. No because there is none, at least none that can be called a Browser.

Plus other little things like no decent lighting in the trunks, seat belts that cannot be vertically adjusted ( my wife has her belt across the throat).

I love my car and I live with all these little issues. But I wish these were resolved before we get still another model that will be faster ( so useful in traffic) .
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

Is this different than it was before?
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Yes. I specifically bought the car only because the prepaid "Unlimited Ranger 4+4" service was available. At the time "$100 flat fee" Ranger service was also an option. Earlier, "$1/mile" Ranger service was promised. Tesla was aggressively marketing the Ranger service.

Tesla would have zero sales in upstate NY if they hadn't offered all of this! In fact, there are dozens of Teslas in upstate NY, but recent buyers don't know what sort of hell they may have bought into. And they're going to turn on the company when they find out, especially if the drivetrain replacements contineu to be a problem...

I've always cautioned people AWAY from buying this car if they are more than 50 miles from a service center. I don't know any other car company that offers free transportation for warranty service if the car is 200 miles from a dealership. I'm not familiar with Tesla's policy here, which is why I'm asking.
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The difference is that for most car companies, you can never get 200 miles from a dealership without going very deep into the middle of nowhere. For Tesla, over 200 miles from a Service Center still includes places like Pittsburgh.

If they're not going to offer service at less than astronomical prices (and "staying overnight in a hotel in order to drop the car off" is an astronomical price, too), they need to stop selling cars into these markets. Which would be a pretty poor decision.

I think Elon may have grossly underestimated the capital necessary to deploy a proper network of Service Centers, but still, that's not an excuse.

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Andyw2100 said: ?

I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not a situation where, at least in my mind, a lot of the option 3 people are selecting option 3 because of, say, an engineering problem, like, for example, the one that exists (or existed) with the early contactors and / or the 12V batteries. I can see problems like that being very hard to solve, and costly to get to the bottom of, and I think, for the most part, we all can, and we're willing to cut Tesla slack on those kinds of things, for all the reasons the supporters give for supporting Tesla. But the communications problems cost next to nothing to fix.
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Well, some of them are expensive to fix, but even the cheap ones are not being solved. Software engineering remains a black hole out of which infomration does not come, not even to the service centers. And problems which seemed to have been fixed have been broken again, as we have seen with inconsistent messaging repeatedly.

I'm not going to say that this communications stuff is *easy* to solve, because it requires the right sort of competent manager. I am going to say that Tesla obviously doesn't have enough of that sort of manager.

I agree that (as someone picking option 3), I still feel just as positive about the CAR -- the engineering remains great -- but I'm feeling less and less positive about the COMPANY.
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bonnie said: ?

I'm not judging the fairness here. But I am saying this isn't exactly representative of the customer population. It might be more, it might be less - Tesla probably knows first hand what the numbers are. We do not.
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It may not be representative of the entire customer population, but it is at least somewhat representative of the population of users on TMC. I would think this is a group that Tesla would be concerned about.

As for Tesla probably knowing first-hand what the numbers are, since you are much closer to Tesla management than I am, Bonnie, I'll defer to you. But I will say that I have my doubts, since I don't believe Tesla does a lot with respect to customer satisfaction surveying.

beeeerock said: ?

A friend of mine used to tell me, "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things..."

When you look at the complaints that are apparently adequate to equate to 'dissatisfaction', ponder how many of them are really quite petty in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...

The point that I think your post misses, and that Tesla may be missing, is that for purposes of this discussion it doesn't really matter how good a job Tesla is doing in the big picture. We're not talking about Tesla getting some grand overall rating from some evaluation committee. I don't think most people would argue the fact that Tesla is doing great, and would certainly win any such competition.

The issue is that some number of customers are less satisfied than they once were, and are speaking less enthusiastically about Tesla and Tesla vehicles to others than they once did, almost certainly resulting in some lost sales. If I were in Tesla management, I'd want to know the reasons these customers' feelings have changed. Perhaps for some there really isn't anything Tesla can do, or anything it makes sense for Tesla to do. But my sense is that's probably not the case for the majority of the people selecting answer option 3. My gut feeling tells me that most of us who are a little cooler on Tesla than we had been could easily be made to feel as we once did, with relatively little expenditure of time and effort on Tesla's part.

The truly great companies never want to lose a good customer. If Tesla wants to remain a truly great company, I think it would serve them well to figure out why close to 30% of their customers who have participated in this survey are at least somewhat dissatisfied with something about what the company has been doing, and then try to figure out if those things are things that can easily be changed or not.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

It may not be representative of the entire customer population, but it is at least somewhat representative of the population of users on TMC. I would think this is a group that Tesla would be concerned about.

As for Tesla probably knowing first-hand what the numbers are, since you are much closer to Tesla management than I am, Bonnie, I'll defer to you. But I will say that I have my doubts, since I don't believe Tesla does a lot with respect to customer satisfaction surveying.

The point that I think your post misses, and that Tesla may be missing, is that for purposes of this discussion it doesn't really matter how good a job Tesla is doing in the big picture. We're not talking about Tesla getting some grand overall rating from some evaluation committee. I don't think most people would argue the fact that Tesla is doing great, and would certainly win any such competition.

The issue is that some number of customers are less satisfied than they once were, and are speaking less enthusiastically about Tesla and Tesla vehicles to others than they once did, almost certainly resulting in some lost sales. If I were in Tesla management, I'd want to know the reasons these customers' feelings have changed. Perhaps for some there really isn't anything Tesla can do, or anything it makes sense for Tesla to do. But my sense is that's probably not the case for the majority of the people selecting answer option 3. My gut feeling tells me that most of us who are a little cooler on Tesla than we had been could easily be made to feel as we once did, with relatively little expenditure of time and effort on Tesla's part.

The truly great companies never want to lose a good customer. If Tesla wants to remain a truly great company, I think it would serve them well to figure out why close to 30% of their customers who have participated in this survey are at least somewhat dissatisfied with something about what the company has been doing, and then try to figure out if those things are things that can easily be changed or not.
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but what if they cannot make that customer happy, Andy?

Youre upset over a center console (that you chose to install) and have repeatedly in many areas of this forum accused them of lying to you. I don't believe anything that happened was deliberate. I know we disagree. But at some point you have some customers that you recognize you will not make happy (because they're not going to magically conjure that up for you.)

as far as autopilot- the FIRST post mentions lawsuits. What IS going to make everyone happy is to receive the rest of the package. At one point people said they just wanted status - but iirc, Elon did give an update and people were satisfied with that for about 5 minutes. So I imagine they're just going to keep working at getting it released.
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bonnie said: ?

but what if they cannot make that customer happy, Andy?

Youre upset over a center console (that you chose to install) and have repeatedly in many areas of this forum accused them of lying to you. I don't believe anything that happened was deliberate. I know we disagree. But at some point you have some customers that you recognize you will not make happy (because they're not going to magically conjure that up for you.)

as far as autopilot- the FIRST post mentions lawsuits. What IS going to make everyone happy is to receive the rest of the package. At one point people said they just wanted status - but iirc, Elon did give an update and people were satisfied with that for about 5 minutes. So I imagine they're just going to keep working at getting it released.
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I acknowledged that there may be customers that Tesla would not be able to make happy. If nothing else, figuring out what they did to turn these unhappy customers into unhappy customers could prevent Tesla from making the same mistakes in the future.

In my case I do feel like I can't trust Tesla the way I once could. And while they can't magically conjure up a console for me, they could announce that they have plans in place to contract for replacement pieces to fit the current consoles that will match the current interiors.

As for the autopilot, I think they just need to learn from their mistakes.

My point that most of us could be brought back into the fold was based on the fact that I think for most of us it was an accumulation of little things that caused the shift in how we felt. Over time, with an accumulation of little positive things, our feelings may shift back. But if Tesla keeps doing the little things that have caused the nearly 30% of us to respond as we did, that number is going to keep growing. I can't imagine anyone wants that.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

I acknowledged that there may be customers that Tesla would not be able to make happy. If nothing else, figuring out what they did to turn these unhappy customers into unhappy customers could prevent Tesla from making the same mistakes in the future.

In my case I do feel like I can't trust Tesla the way I once could. And while they can't magically conjure up a console for me, they could announce that they have plans in place to contract for replacement pieces to fit the current consoles that will match the current interiors.

As for the autopilot, I think they just need to learn from their mistakes.

My point that most of us could be brought back into the fold was based on the fact that I think for most of us it was an accumulation of little things that caused the shift in how we felt. Over time, with an accumulation of little positive things, our feelings may shift back. But if Tesla keeps doing the little things that have caused the nearly 30% of us to respond as we did, that number is going to keep growing. I can't imagine anyone wants that.
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So, if I read this correctly, what you're saying is 'future actions could potentially change your opinion, not words'. Consider that maybe they DID learn from announcing the center console, saw the bad quality, and are reticent to make another announcement about replacements UNTIL they have stuff actually in hand that meets spec. Otherwise people will be twice as angry.

I am absolutely positive that there have been lessons learned over past mistakes, just as I am absolutely positive there are still lessons yet to be learned. Only you will be able to decide if their actions are good enough for you. I have a feeling all the talking in the world wouldn't make a bit of difference to you, your mind is pretty much set that it went down a certain way. So here we are. All they can do is continue on the path they're on & perhaps you'll be satisfied at some point. I hope that happens for you.

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*to be clear, I have zero knowledge about any center console plans. But if people don't want them to repeat mistakes and they're not repeating it by making promises/giving dates until they have the stuff in hand, but people WANT a promise about what they're going to do ... this is a no win situation. That's my only point.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

My point that most of us could be brought back into the fold was based on the fact that I think for most of us it was an accumulation of little things that caused the shift in how we felt. Over time, with an accumulation of little positive things, our feelings may shift back. But if Tesla keeps doing the little things that have caused the nearly 30% of us to respond as we did, that number is going to keep growing. I can't imagine anyone wants that.
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Some customers don't want Tesla to update the car more than once per year. One owner launched a thread at TM basically tearing into Tesla because his P85D wasn't the "top dog" for more than a few months before the P90D was launched. Undoubtedly, some of the 27% who are dissatisfied in this informal, statistically inaccurate poll are unhappy because Tesla has made TOO MUCH progress. There could be many reasons why people might have selected option 3, and some reasons are quite obviously silly.

I can't wait for this poll to be quoted in some Tesla hit piece about how "30% of Tesla customers are dissatisfied". The drive unit poll already made similar headlines.
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bonnie said: ?

So, if I read this correctly, what you're saying is 'future actions could potentially change your opinion, not words'. Consider that maybe they DID learn from announcing the center console, saw the bad quality, and are reticent to make another announcement about replacements UNTIL they have stuff actually in hand that meets spec. Otherwise people will be twice as angry.

I am absolutely positive that there have been lessons learned over past mistakes, just as I am absolutely positive there are still lessons yet to be learned. Only you will be able to decide if their actions are good enough for you. I have a feeling all the talking in the world wouldn't make a bit of difference to you, your mind is pretty much set that it went down a certain way. So here we are. All they can do is continue on the path they're on & perhaps you'll be satisfied at some point. I hope that happens for you.

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*to be clear, I have zero knowledge about any center console plans. But if people don't want them to repeat mistakes and they're not repeating it by making promises/giving dates until they have the stuff in hand, but people WANT a promise about what they're going to do ... this is a no win situation. That's my only point.
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I'm not yet at the point where I'm not willing to believe anything Tesla says, (so that it's "actions only" for me, as you put it.) Words could change my opinion, provided that the words eventually came to pass.

I think there's a big difference between announcing autopilot functions that to many sound like they are a major component of the car and are coming with the car, which is what has a lot of people upset about the fact that they're not released yet, and saying something like "we can't produce the console we promised, but we're going back to the drawing board, and will try again, and will keep trying until we get it right." Yes, people were complaining about how long the console was taking in the first place. I was one of them. But those complaints were nothing compared to how disappointed we became when we were told the center console was simply scrapped. Words to give us hope for the future would go a long way towards making things better, and as long as they were not just words, then yes, the words would probably be enough to bring many of us around.

Similarly, to whatever extent it's possible, I think the right words on the autopilot issue could really help. For example, when the P85D was released and none of us had any idea why we weren't seeing the expected efficiency numbers, eventually there was the JB Straubel blog post explaining things, and things got a heck of a lot better from that point forward. I think a similar post on what the hold up has been with autopilot, with a reasonable estimate, along with appropriate disclaimers, of when it may be released, would help. No, not everyone would be appeased by something like that. But I think a lot of people would be.

Again, it comes down largely to communications, which I know you agree has been an issue for Tesla.
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My dissatisfaction are few, but they are annoying, namely:
1. Having to reset the computer everyday just to get 3G connection for the touch screen map and internet radio to work properly. Communication set to always connected!
2. No individual tire pressure reading, only warning when you are about to have a flat tire.
3. No auto-parking yet after 9 months of software development
4. Drive train whining sound gets louder as time progress. Tesla says it is acceptable, but I did not notice the noise when the car was new.

Other than above, I love my MS. So if I were to be giving comments on Tesla to my friends and neighbour, then I would say this:
Tesla is out to change the means of land transportation and that is a very noble goal. MS saves me $2k a year in fuel cost. MS has a lot of features and can accelerate to 60mph in 2.8 seconds, but my MS has some deficiencies as described above. Can you live with that on a $100k car? Would you wait a little bit more while Tesla will hopefully resolve these issues that I know of?
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Imafrog said: ?

I am less happy ?? i love the car, after 13 months of ownership, but... I cannot trust the company strategy. Timing means nothing. I am in the Montreal area and we have waited almost a year for a Supercharger. We still do not know if we will be able to reach the Albany SC this winter. But I sort of knew that on purchase so I live with it.
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How do you know that's Tesla's fault. Perhaps there's a hold up on a city/county level.

But as more and more cars are sold, it takes a lot of time to schedule a visit to the Service Center. It will get worse over time when more cars are on the road and Tesla does not allow others to do basic maintenance on the cars. That also I can live with. I already have my november appointment for my winter tires.
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Certainly Tesla will have to open up more SC's/expand, and it's quite possible they will allow others to do basic maintenance on cars via partnerships, or when shops start to get on board with EV training and/or more EVs are on the road requiring shops to train their employees not just for ICEs, but also for EVs.
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I voted about the same. I did not expect the car to be without some problems. I purchased a Neighborhood Electric Vehicle in 2002 expecting it to be fairly trouble free. I mean what could go wrong? It has been the most troublesome vehicle I have ever owned. Several electrical gremlins and the cost of batteries has made it expensive to maintain. Overall it has been more expensive to drive per mile than my ICE cars. Also just think of what typically goes wrong with an ICE vehicle. Very seldom is it the drive train. The main problems tend to be with the electronics. So as a completely electronic vehicle I didn't expect it to be without problems. Since I do my own general maintenance and repairs on my ICE vehicles I think Tesla maintenance will be more. I assume I will need to spend at least $600 every two years for general maintenance which is more than any ICE I have owned. I also understood from the forum/etc that Tesla is overly optimistic. I mean the Model X is about 2 years behind schedule. Autopilot is slow in coming, superchargers are generally behind schedule, etc, etc. However I purchased the car knowing all this so my feelings about the car have not changed. I have not had any problems with my car but again I don't expect it to be trouble free. Driving on a day to day basis is great. Trips are not as easy as with an ICE but I look forward to them as a challenge. This will get easier as more superchargers are opened but that may get offset by more cars trying to use them. One final thing is the poll #3 says your less happy which does not mean your unhappy with the car. From the replies it appears that most of the folks that voted number 3 are still overall happy with their car.
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rays427 said: ?

One final thing is the poll #3 says your less happy which does not mean your unhappy with the car. From the replies it appears that most of the folks that voted number 3 are still overall happy with their car.
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Exactly!

I purposely worded things this way.

I've said it in this thread and elsewhere--I am generally happy with my car. I'm just not as happy as I had been. When I speak to others about the car I imagine they still walk away thinking very positive thoughts about Tesla. But I know that I'm not speaking quite as enthusiastically or with quite as much affection as I did in the past.
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Andyw2100 said: ?

The issue is that some number of customers are less satisfied than they once were, and are speaking less enthusiastically about Tesla and Tesla vehicles to others than they once did, almost certainly resulting in some lost sales. If I were in Tesla management, I'd want to know the reasons these customers' feelings have changed. Perhaps for some there really isn't anything Tesla can do, or anything it makes sense for Tesla to do. But my sense is that's probably not the case for the majority of the people selecting answer option 3. My gut feeling tells me that most of us who are a little cooler on Tesla than we had been could easily be made to feel as we once did, with relatively little expenditure of time and effort on Tesla's part.
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Just kind of thinking out loud here in general, and please nobody take this personally. In my life I've interacted with plenty of people who seem to be less satisfied over same or similar purchases or achievements or staff output than me. This is likely more a failing of mine, being satisfied with accepting less than perhaps I should. On the other hand one of my favourite quotes is Art Linkletter's "Things generally turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out".

So I wonder, for this situation, how much of the 27% less satisfied is just the normal course of business where some percentage of customers are happy initially but just naturally tend to be less happy as time goes on? I KNOW I have met people that are repeatedly like this. *I'm not accusing anyone here*, just looking at an overall pattern I've noticed in the non-Tesla world.

Ok, I'd better duck behind that bullet-proof screen I just got and hope it actually works
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Even if TM can wave a magic wand & erase all past dissatisfactions they somehow manage to create another batch of owners that are likely to choose option 3 in the near future.

Have any P85D owners confirmed service date for Ludicrous mode retrofit? - Page 2
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Soolim said: ?

My dissatisfaction are few, but they are annoying, namely:
1. Having to reset the computer everyday just to get 3G connection for the touch screen map and internet radio to work properly. Communication set to always connected!
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If rebooting is really a daily occurrence you should talk to Tesla service; I've rebooted our Model S maybe 3 times in the three years we've owned it and IIRC they were all after FW updates.
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I'm a number 2 guy. I have been smitten since delivery, but as I've dug into the company and understood what it has taken to get this far, I have more and more respect for them, and in that way, I'm happier than I was. Even during a service issue, getting a bit of context on the accomplishment always helps my patience.
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NigelM said: ?

If rebooting is really a daily occurrence you should talk to Tesla service; I've rebooted our Model S maybe 3 times in the three years we've owned it and IIRC they were all after FW updates.
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Similar 3G connection issue for months that effect Slacker & maps, recently it got to the point where the car didn't "turn on" & needed a reboot just to drive...took it service center, engineering determined bugs in MCU\ graphics but didn't want to replace anything & hoped future firmware would resolve issue, after a week my service adviser calls & tells me basically nothing is fixed, nothing is going to be fixed you just have to continue rebooting...I :cursing:...car is still there.
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To those of you hoping for better communication and more consistent policies from Tesla, I offer the following cautions, at least for the near term:

1) Tesla is in hyper-growth mode. The average employee has been at the company for less than a year and in their current job for probably 6 months or less. Many decisions have to be made without the benefit of prior knowledge. And while this could be remedied by a rigorous sign-off policy, that would serve to slow down the innovation. A friend of mine who was the product manager for DB2 at IBM said it took in the neighborhood of 100 signatures to get a product released there in the 1980's. Consistency, yes, but speed of innovation, no.

2) Tesla is an engineering-driven company. Elon is the chief engineer. Having worked in such companies, often the marketing folks find out about stuff after it is already completed and have to scramble to develop the positioning, messaging, etc. And Elon is the worst offender (note the deleted Twitter posts). When he blabs about unreleased features and their release dates, I bet he doesn't consult with the product manager/program manager/engineering manager to get the latest status before speaking publicly.

I'm not saying this is bad, it is just the nature of the beast in a hyper-growth, engineering-driven technology company. As customers, we'll just have to learn to deal with it.
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The way I speak about Tesla to others:

Funny story. Today bored out of my goard at work I was reading an article on the Model 3 possibly having a 300 mile range, when an older guy walks up behind me and asks what I'm doing. I say "I'm reading this article on a Tesla". BOOOM. I start getting lectured (no, I didn't ask him anything - you're getting the whole conversation here) about how they're not worth crap, take too long to charge, not enough range, blah blah blah. I should have been polite, but I just couldn't help myself. I said, "well, let me show you mine" and I pulled up a screen saver photo of a Model S my color, but not my wheels, in a nice marketing pose - better photo than I have of my real car of course. He said, sheepishly, "do you like it?"

I know that was evil, but I couldn't help myself. I actually hope he'll think before he speaks to me next time. He's between 65 and 70 so you'd think he'd know better. Well, maybe it was a good bet he wasn't talking to an owner - their aren't THAT many of us yet...
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dennis said: ?

To those of you hoping for better communication and more consistent policies from Tesla, I offer the following cautions, at least for the near term:

1) Tesla is in hyper-growth mode. The average employee has been at the company for less than a year and in their current job for probably 6 months or less. Many decisions have to be made without the benefit of prior knowledge. And while this could be remedied by a rigorous sign-off policy, that would serve to slow down the innovation. A friend of mine who was the product manager for DB2 at IBM said it took in the neighborhood of 100 signatures to get a product released there in the 1980's. Consistency, yes, but speed of innovation, no.

2) Tesla is an engineering-driven company. Elon is the chief engineer. Having worked in such companies, often the marketing folks find out about stuff after it is already completed and have to scramble to develop the positioning, messaging, etc. And Elon is the worst offender (note the deleted Twitter posts). When he blabs about unreleased features and their release dates, I bet he doesn't consult with the product manager/program manager/engineering manager to get the latest status before speaking publicly.

I'm not saying this is bad, it is just the nature of the beast in a hyper-growth, engineering-driven technology company. As customers, we'll just have to learn to deal with it.
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I dont really follow this logic.. Most of the communications issues I've seen is on the corporate level and remains unfixed for weeks or even months.

- D-range issues went on for weeks after initial deliveries without any communication efforts.
- Seat issues are still not solved and no real communication efforts have been made about it. For me personally its been 5months now.
- Autopilot marketing is still seriously misleading. I dont really care that much as I want the features to be perfect when released, but the verbage on the website is appaling knowing the actual current situation.
- Charge port door in europe not being automated has to my knowledge never been communicated even though it was sold as automated.

Add to this that manufacturing issues, like leaking rear hatch,rear lights and panoroof, as old as the Model S still isnt solved after 2-3years is the reason I bring disclaimers to my praise of Tesla these days. Obviously many of the people I speak to arent willing to participate in beta-testing such an expensive product. I am since the rest of the product is so nice and has no real competition.
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NigelM said: ?

If rebooting is really a daily occurrence you should talk to Tesla service; I've rebooted our Model S maybe 3 times in the three years we've owned it and IIRC they were all after FW updates.
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I did, they say it takes time to switch from WiFi to 3G. But even after 50km of driving it is still not responding. Only after a reset it will work.
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teslamotorclub

Thứ Ba, 31 tháng 1, 2017

Has the way you feel about Tesla changed the way you speak about Tesla to others? part 1

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