Jan 19, 2016
GasKilla Perhaps this is a CA problem but I've seen far too may Teslas parked at public level 2 charges not plugged into the station. Not only is this rude, inconsiderate, and against the law in CA, it gives Tesla owners a bad reputation. I know EV parking spaces are usually the best in the lot, but if you park in front of a charger at least take 2 minutes and plug into the station. Otherwise you are doing everyone a disservice.
I know the type of people that frequent this forum aren't the likely offenders, but it is our job to inform other Tesla owners that this practice is bad form. And we need to not let these bad habits spread ... My thoughts but I hope others feel the same way.�
Jan 19, 2016
2krazykats Do you have to pay to charge there? If not, then I don't see a reason not to plug in. If so, I imagine you're right - they're just parking there to take up a good spot. Reminds me of people who take a relative's handicap sticker/car so they can park in the handicap slot when they don't need it.�
Jan 19, 2016
kort677 people need to learn that those are CHARGING spots, not PARKING spots.
proper signage might help. a sign saying this spot reserved for ACTIVE CHARGING might work. getting property owners and government to enforce restrictions on blocking a charger would be a plus as well.�
Jan 19, 2016
jeffro01 It is? Since when? I was still under the impression that CA law hadn't been updated to account for this yet.
Jeff
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Sadly I know plenty of people who keep the handicap placards in the car just for this reason and laugh at me when I question why they feel they should block legitimately disabled people. Unfortunately, for reasons that I won't get into here, it seems that our society is getting worse and worse with regards to entitlement. I'm sure every generation says that but...
In the interest of full disclosure I have parked in a few EV spots over time and "plugged in" even though my battery was essentially fully charged because the parking lot was full and I needed to run in and out and didn't feel like walking an exorbitant amount... I'll concede that I may have taken advantage of the situation in those instances which I probably shouldn't have but I can say the car was actively charging the few times I've done that...
Jeff�
Jan 19, 2016
2krazykats That seems a legitimate use for me and a perk of owning an electric vehicle. Enjoy it while it lasts.. as more EV cars come on the road, you'll long for the 'good ol' days' when those spots were easy to get!�
Jan 19, 2016
AEdennis California AB 475 in 2011 or 2012... Charging An Electric Car In CA? Make Sure You're Not Towed
If your fully charged, some places will ticket and tow after a few minutes from being done.
Charging stations are really meant for those actively charging, regardless of which plug in one drives.�
Jan 19, 2016
GasKilla All of the incidents I've seen are in free charging spots.�
Jan 19, 2016
GasKilla As posted elsewhere AB-475 is the law that will have you towed if not plugged into a charger while parked in a designated EV space.
At least you plugged into the charger. I've seen numerous Tesla owners just take up the spot because "it's the best parking spot" not plug in and walk away. When I had my Leaf I nicely let a young Tesla owner know which chargers were working (some were broken), he said he didn't need to charge, I explained how it was the same as parking in front of a gas station, he said "but these are the best spaces" and walked away.�
Jan 19, 2016
jeffro01 Yep, good to know.
Regarding the entitlement attitude... Unfortunately this is an epidemic it would seem among Tesla owners, like the other thread where people refuse to put on the HOV stickers because they're "ugly" and so they shouldn't have too, I mean after all, since we can afford these cars we shouldn't have to follow the rules now should we???...
Jeff�
Jan 19, 2016
GasKilla Every time I've seen this happen the spots were properly signed, some people just don't care. The city of Santa Monica will ticket vehicles not plugged in (in the city's garages) but usually not tow the car. I've also seen a Tesla ticketed for not having a front license plate in a city garage.�
Jan 19, 2016
jeffro01 In one of the Walnut Creek city garages they leave their city vehicles there all weekend to take up charging spaces from the general public so the variations from city to city are quite substantial...
Jeff�
Jan 19, 2016
kort677 someone else on this thread noted that there is a law in CA that prohibits blocking a charger with a parked car, try calling in the barneys to see if they'll enforce the law.�
Jan 19, 2016
GasKilla I have no problem with people not putting the white sticker on their car, just don't drive in the HOV lane. The white sticker also has the benefit of free parking at the meters in some cities (like Santa Monica) so if you don't value these benefits then don't put the sticker on. Otherwise expect to get a ticket for not playing by the rules like parking without plugging in or driving in the HOV lane without a sticker.
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Santa Monica isn't perfect either, they have many city EVs that also take up public charging spots all weekend.�
Jan 19, 2016
jeffro01 Yeah I don't see the police officers in Walnut Creek ticketing their own city vehicles... Such is life...
Jeff�
Jan 19, 2016
AEdennis Some city charging stations are for city vehicle use only (this is the case in Glendale) and non-city vehicles can get ticketed and towed as a result...�
Jan 19, 2016
TexasEV No, it is not a "perk" of owning an electric vehicle. That kind of attitude is what gives EV owners a bad name. The space is to charge your car, not to give you a premium parking spot as a reward for owning an EV.�
Jan 19, 2016
ElectricTundra Regardless of laws it's all about consideration for others. If you don't NEED the charge then don't take the last one or two or so spots (depending on how many spots and how busy the location is). Leave them for folks who need it.�
Jan 19, 2016
Gizmotoy I think the point was that he WAS charging. It's just that he didn't NEED to charge to get wherever he was going. That is a much trickier thing. I think most would agree that such a use is taking advantage of the situation, but it's clearly a legal use.
There's no real analogy in the gas-powered world. Pulling up to the pump for gas when you really only want to buy a lotto ticket inside, but there's no more parking spots?
I deal with this on a daily basis. My primary charger is shared between approximately 10 EVs. When do I "need" to charge? If I wait until the situation is dire, there's a good chance I'll be stranded. If I have enough range for my next trip, I could be blocking someone with a more urgent need. It's a complex situation.�
Jan 19, 2016
AndY1 That's common practice in my country too. Model S owners do like they own everything. The owner of this Model S even went to the TV station and was aired about her complaining, how ICE cars are parking on EV charging spots. Yet, this is what she does, when she parks at the city's biggest mall:
My Ampera is charging on Schuko 16A 230V plug, while she didn't plug the car into (11kW) charging type2 Mennekes plug and it's not the only time.�
Jan 19, 2016
Lloyd Where can you find a listing of these benefits? They seem to be scattered all over the california website. I found that the Fairmont hotel offers free parking to guests with the white sticker.�
Jan 19, 2016
GasKilla Drive Clean | Plug-in Electric Vehicle Resource Center
You have to check some boxes but all the info is on that page.�
Jan 19, 2016
cpa A tricky situation indeed. I have availed myself of public charging about 50 times in 18 months. About twenty times or so, I really did not need a charge, but felt that it was the right thing to do instead of leeching off my sister-in-law's 110V plug in her garage. A few of those times I knew I was going to be eating dinner and shopping, so three hours would add about 50-60 miles of range, even though I technically did not need the additional miles.
Once I had an owner of a Leaf or Volt owner express frustration because, "why don't you just use a Supercharger, and let us little people use these public stations?" I smiled and said that the Supercharger was about 50 miles away, and that this charge was enabling comfortable access to it when I left town the next morning.
We just need to be thoughtful and polite and not game the system to be best of our abilities.�
Jan 19, 2016
Lloyd All I saw was the Fairmont parking. Nothing else.�
Jan 19, 2016
mikeash This sort of thing is why I think public chargers should be installed in inconvenient locations. Put them at the back of the garage, not right up front. People who need the charge will gladly take it. People who don't need the charge but want the free electrons can decide which compromise they prefer. People who don't care about charging and just want a good spot can take up better spaces.
I sometimes plug in when I don't need a charge, but I'd never use a spot without charging. There's a local shopping area a couple of miles down the road from me where I go pretty often, and they have free chargers. I plug in even though I don't need it, because they offer it, and why not? Plus, I figure that using it sends the message that it's appreciated, and helps get more chargers installed. One exception to parking without charging: there's one charger there which has been broken for ages, and I will park in that spot if the others aren't open.
I always leave a note on my dashboard when I do this. I printed out a piece of paper with two messages on it. One says "I am opportunity charging. I will move if you need it." The other says "I am charging to get home. I can move if you really need it." I put the appropriate side up when I charge, and otherwise it lives in my glove compartment. It includes my phone number on both so people can reach me. I've never had anyone call me, but knowing it's there makes me feel better, and you never know when someone might end up taking advantage of the offer.�
Jan 19, 2016
GasKilla If you come down to SoCal you can park for free in Santa Monica and Hermosa beach.
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That's great that you plugin when you park in an EV spot, but I think the message we need to spread to other Tesla owners is not to park just to park in a good spot but plug in every time you take an EV spot. When AB-475 first was debated pure EV owners didn't want to allow plugin hybrids (or Volts) to charge in "EV" spaces. There will always be some infighting between plugin car owners, but we can reduce the animosity by having good etiquette and sharing good practices with other EV owners.�
Jan 19, 2016
JeffS This may be unpopular but... IMHO It's unfortunate, but the problem is a systemic degradation of courtesy. It's not just charging locations. It's everywhere. And it's sad.
Personally, I don't "opportunity charge". There are a lot of Leafs and similar...even Volts...access to a charger is the difference between getting home at all (or getting home without the genny kicking on).
I know there's no way for Leaf driver to assess whether my big 85kWh battery'd car needed a charge to get home, but probably pretty safe to bet it doesn't. In these early EV days of 10 - 20kWh cars on the road - it's just better to give them the space in my opinion.�
Jan 19, 2016
CatB I think it depends on where your locale is on the EV adoption curve. My favorite grocery store (MOM's - My Organic Market) has free EV chargers in front of a few of their stores. In DC, I will only take an EV spot and charge if the other spot is open, because sometimes both those spots are taken with Volts, PIPs or Leafs and they need it more than me. In the Timonium store, on the other hand, I charge there all the time because when nobody uses them, people forget they're for charging and they get ICEd.�
Jan 19, 2016
m2140 I think this is a big problem regardless.
Tesla supercharges located near shopping areas are abused and held longer than they should be. blocking others from charging.
As someone said before, all EV parking should only be used when charging. Once your done charging you should move. All EV owners have problem following that rule.
It's more critical for all battery cars to have access to those spots. I got an i3 before my tesla and had several problems getting home when plug in hybrids with 10-30 miles range took up level 2 spots for hour past the time they needed to charge.
As an owner now I have my own rules. If the only option is a level 2 charger I always leave a note on plugshare and on my car with my number. Anyone that needs to charge can give me a quick call. I only stay in the spot as much as I need to and once the car is done charging I move it.�
Jan 19, 2016
CHG-ON I think this speaks to the "don't tread on me" (New Hampshire's state motto) culture that we have in the US. I don't like it. Though I love the motto. I wish we were more considerate of others.
As far as plug-ins go, I have a hard time understanding the need there. They have an ICE engine to get them home, in whatever form that may be. Pure EVs do not. I only use a charging spot when I need it, and I calculate that need and move when I am done.
I completely agree that EV charging spots should not be the prime spots. I understand why they were set up this way with the new tech: to promote the concept. But I am happy to walk all the way across a parking lot for the privilege of being able to charge, free or not. A good example of that is Petaluma, CA. The 10 stalls are a good walk from the grocery store. I haven't seen any ICEing there yet. People are just too plain lazy. Another cultural issues for the US... It really is the same thing as people parking in disabled spaces when they are not. Simply shameful, IMO.
My hope is that, as EVs take over the market, as they will, that enough stranded people will gain a voice large enough to 1: increase the sensitivity among the public to understand the problem for those of us who end up stranded, and 2: motivate law enforcement and towing companies to actually do something about it. CA may well have a bill for this. But they are not doing anything about it at all.�
Jan 19, 2016
calisnow Not hogging an EV station is such an obvious piece of etiquette that if someone needs to be told not to do it - I'm afraid they're beyond help. I'm more pessimistic about the world than you are lol.�
Jan 20, 2016
mikeash They don't need it (unless they've run out of gas!) but it's still much nicer.
Just purely for selfish reasons, I'd rather have J. Random Volt charge up while shopping and drive home on electricity rather than emitting more local pollution because they had to switch over to gas.�
Jan 20, 2016
green1 As much as it seems that way, it's only a small part of the reason. Running wire to the far end of a parking lot is quite expensive, running it to the outside wall of the building is much cheaper. As a result most chargers are located as close to the building as they can be to reduce installation cost.
There are some notable exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. The best you can really hope for here is along the wall of the building, but as far from an entrance as possible.�
Jan 20, 2016
brkaus We are in a society where people circle the gym parking lot for 5-10 minutes to get a close spot so they can go in and exercise... Anything (sadly) is fair game here.�
Jan 20, 2016
ElectricTundra And people here drive their car a half mile (65, sunny, completely flat) to the gym instead of walking or riding a bicycle. Amazing. And we wonder why we spend twice as much on healthcare as other countries and yet still have a shorter lifespan.�
Jan 20, 2016
m2140 i think the OP has a point here. Teslas have a decent battery pack and rarely do we need to use Level 2 chargers. Holding a Level 2 charger and not charging just should not happen. If you don't need the charge then don't hold the spot. If you do hold the spot at least charge and give those other EV owners an option to contact you if they critically need to charge. It can be thru Plugshare our thru a note on you car or on the charge port. Evenex even has a laminated card you can use.
But as EV owners we should follow the basic rules of etiquette around charging. Plug in cars has a good article on etiquette.
Electric Vehicle Charging Etiquette | PluginCars.com
Keep in mind that over the next couple of years EV's are going to be more and more common on the road. Only the Tesla has the capability to quick charge to 80% in a timely manner. The new Leaf or the new Chevy bolt can only max out at about 70-80 miles on a quick charge (chadmo or SEA Combo). Those quick chargers are also limited to only 30 minutes so they will not have no option for a quick full charge anyway. The need for Level 2 chargers is only going to increase. Currently there are not enough chargers at popular locations for the amount of EV drivers on the road. Once the affordable 200 mile range cars start coming out the problem is only going to get worse. There is no incentive right now for more chargers to be put in place so expect things to get worse.
There already is a lot of hostility against Plug in hybrids & Tesla's using Level 2 spots. Don't be part of the problem because you have seen other idiots not follow etiquette.�
Jan 20, 2016
Shaggy
Something like this?
Charging | Take Charge and Go
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Also, having asked, the reason they are located is 90% the cheapest location. It seems most parking lots do not have high power running anywhere near them so they run the shortest possible, meaning the buildings that already have power.
There is one HEB in Austin that the L2 is opposite the store as there happened to be lines they could tap there.
I cannot see any difference between being ICE'd and an EV parking without charging. Both vehicles are performing the same function, blocking an EV from charging. I have a PHEV, does that mean I should never publicly charge since I'll never NEED it? No. Should you not charge if you don't need it, meh, charge if you want if the spot is open, but never park and NOT charge. If you don't want to charge, easy, don't park in the charging spot.�
Jan 20, 2016
tga Ahem... Actually, our state motto is "live free or die" :wink:�
Jan 20, 2016
mikeash No, it's just a piece of paper I put on my dashboard, and it just invites people to call or text me. I haven't seen a lot of chargers where "OK to unplug" would be very useful. Most of the ones I've been to, there's one spot per plug, and adjacent spots either can't be reached with the plug or are always full. If someone wants to use my plug, I'd usually have to move the car. Mine is more like this, except not as pretty, and with the added detail of "opportunity charging" or "charging to get home":
http://d2odvx3v4cbpyu.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-03-at-7.59.35-PM-1024x492.jpg�
Jan 20, 2016
green1 Around here a lot of the public chargers have long cords that would reach multiple stalls, (especially if backed in) (whether those stalls are open or not is a different question, but it does happen) I also know of a few locations with multiple stalls dedicated per charger (eg Ikea in Calgary has 4 stalls, but only 2 chargers)
So it certainly has some merit. I've returned to my car to find another EV in the stall next to me, most likely waiting for a charge, I would have plugged them in had they left their charge port open and the adapter in it...�
Jan 20, 2016
Max* Eh, if there's a free charger next to the entrance, I'll use it even if I don't need a charge.
If there's a paid charger next to the entrance, I'll skip paying a fee unless I need a charge.
I use the paid charger at work whenever I need it.
If my work charger were free, I'd use it whenever I wanted to.
The solution is fairly simple:
1. Enforce EV parking but not charging
2. Make all chargers cost money (I bet $0.10/kwh would deter people using it when they don't need to)�
Jan 20, 2016
GasKilla In order to avoid future problems (with the increase of EV adoption) stations will need to charge a fee to prevent abuse. It's complicated and really not a strong business to be in, but fee based charging really discourages people from using the space as a parking spot.�
Jan 20, 2016
JeffS I'm not one to tell anyone else what to do unless it is cut-and-dried-wrong. For instance - parking in an EV spot not charging - cut-and-dried-wrong.
But I will submit that I don't think Teslas should opportunity charge at L2 stations.
I do think Volts should opportunity charge at L2 stations.
What's the difference? Volts owners, for the most part, are doing what they can to drive all electric. Yes, they have a generator for backup, but many obsesses over not using gas unless absolutely necessary. Let them have their cake and eat it too. Same with any PHEV.
I also think that notes should be left on Plugshare as a non-negotiable standard of courtesy. Ever you are charging, have enough to go home or finish out your trip, and a Leaf texts you that they are desperately in need of a charge...wouldn't you run right out and move your car? Of course. We all would. So why not make that be a standard in the etiquette booklet?
Finally, Teslas opportunity charging at Tesla HPWC's, destination chargers and Superchargers is really the only place we should be in my opinion. Only we can connect. And the worst that we can do is momentarily inconvenience another Tesla with a big battery. If we all posted our info on Plugshare for other Tesla folks to see, that would be easy to manage.
The bottom line - in my opinion - WE should help manage the prioritization of need at L2's. Short range BEV's first. Long range BEV's second if and only if the charge is necessary. Short range PHEV's third. And ANY opportunity charging a distant fourth if at all.
Again - this is just as it relates to public L2's. Just my opinion. And for the sake of all that is good in the world - get in the absolute habit of checking in on Plugshare with your cell number? Just my $.02.�
Jan 20, 2016
m2140 Agreed. There are several initiatives around that will take away free charging because it's so badly abused and used long after charging is completed. But I don't think a per kWh charge will not stop the abuse. I've seen time based charging costs being more effective. You are charged for the time you use charging rather than draw. This way if you completed charging and don't move you are still accumulating charges.�
Jan 20, 2016
m2140 Completely agree. I use plugshare on a regular basis for this same reason. But I find that most Tesla owners don't. Plugshare is more commonly used by smaller EVs like the leaf and i3 regular basis because they rely on the info. But tesla, volt, and phev,s don't.�
Jan 20, 2016
AndY1 It should be a combination of time connected to the station and kWh consumed. In Europe, public charging stations can go up to 3 phase 32A, that means up to 22kW AC. So, Renault Zoe, Model S can charge at 22kW, while Ampera can only charge at 3.3kW and Kia Soul EV can charge at 6.6kW.
If only time would be charged, that means, that the Ampera owner would pay 6 times the price for the same amount of energy, than the Zoe owner.
price = per minute connected + kWh drawn�
Jan 20, 2016
DCGOO Not me. I park as far away as I can get, hoping to avoid door rash. Then come out to be surrounded by others apparently trying to do the same thing. Can't win.�
Jan 20, 2016
2krazykats LOL or someone who's come to check out your Tesla and parked next to it to have a look.
I've never parked anywhere to charge but at the Tesla Superchargers or home. There's no reason for me to park at an L2 since I have enough charge to get around the city doing errands. However, I think it's cool to park at a Supercharger like the one at a mall near my home because I seem to be draining my battery faster than I anticipated just doing city driving and it's free charging (even though I suspect I paid for it as part of my car's price). It also happens to be one of the prime spots in the parking lot that always seems to be full every time I've been there (I only go there 2-3 times a year). I can't see why that would be unethical even if I'm only needing to charge for 10 minutes but my trip takes an hour or so. It's essentially destination charging because they put it in a place most people spend hours at and can't be expected to come out and move it as soon as they finish charging. Why would someone have an issue with that?�
Jan 20, 2016
m2140 The intent of fast charging like the supercharger is so they are only used as needed. Currently there are not enough Teslas on the road for it to be a problem that you hold a spot for 1 hr when you only needed a 10 minute charge. But as Tesla becomes more popular you will be a problem for people that need the fast charger to get home.
Look at what happened Christmas break, on this forum there was a huge discussion of an hour or more wait at the tejon supercharger. The supercharger is local to someone too. If they were to hold that spot for over an hour without charging you would have had some very angry people.
The charging etiquette should always apply. If you don't need to charge don't take up he spot. If you do use it, once your done charging you should move your car to free up the slot for the next guy.�
Jan 20, 2016
AWDtsla One guy here was plugged into 1 of 2 Level 2 chargers for almost 24 hours. The car was obviously not charging anywhere near that amount of time.�
Jan 20, 2016
mikeash Makes sense, I just haven't personally encountered many like that. If I did, I could certainly see the use having a "you can unplug me" sign.
On another note, I feel like it's worth mentioning another angle on a solution to this problem: more chargers! If everyone had a charger, we wouldn't have to fight! Something of a pipe dream I'm sure, but on the other hand EVSE equipment is not super expensive compared to the cost of parking structures and such that places already have to pay for.�
Jan 20, 2016
silverp85+ that would mean they would have to drop $2500 off the price of the car. the $2500 supercharger fee is advanced payment for the privilege to charge for "free". that's why when you want to upgrade the 60 kwh cars they do it with a software update and charge $2500 for it (this is what ive read).�
Jan 20, 2016
yo mama I was curious when another Tesla owner got pissed when I left my MS at the Folsom, CA SC to go shopping at the nearby outlet but didn't come back until about 45 minutes after the MS was done charging. (Hey, I wasn't done shopping yet). The spaces weren't full when I got there but there was a pretty big line once I came back. Am I supposed to be physically present until it's done charging, or something? Because I honestly don't know.�
Jan 20, 2016
TexasEV No, but you know how long it takes for the charge you need and you should return to your car and move it to a parking space if you're going to be spending more time shopping.�
Jan 20, 2016
silverp85+ I would say yes. you should check your app, especially in California since most model s vehicles are in that state. you may not have issues in NY though but you still should check the app�
Jan 20, 2016
ecarfan You don't have to be physically present, but I suggest that you check your charge status using the Tesla app on your smartphone every 15 minutes and when your charge is up to the level you want, please move your car.
It's just basic courtesy, and the Tesla app makes it easy to do. There is really no excuse not to.�
Jan 21, 2016
AWDtsla So I guess no one has a card specifically for EV owners hogging spots? We have a Tesla guy here who just uses them as a parking spot. Sometimes he's plugged in, sometimes not.
The ****** part is last time I know he saw me when he beat me to the spot, then he plugged in and left his car there for 24 hours straight! The other EV's who come in early couldn't even use the spot.
How many brain cells does it take to think "Hey, somebody else might want to use this"�
Jan 21, 2016
silverp85+ I would email tesla his vin and explain the situation�
Jan 21, 2016
AWDtsla People have done this? And Tesla does something about it? For public chargers?�
Jan 21, 2016
AudubonB OH NOOOOO!
As all good Granite Staters will tell you, the NH state motto is Live Free or Die. "Don't Tread On Me" was a colonial era slogan that was put on what is called the Gadsden flag, originally to be used on Revolutionary War naval vessels. It is not the motto of any state.
Here endeth the afternoon's history lesson.�
Jan 21, 2016
kort677 I don't believe tesla is looking for issues, bad behavior at public chargers is way beyond their scope of interest�
Jan 21, 2016
yo mama Well, of *course* I was checking my app. I may be ignorant of SC etiquette but I'm not an assh*le. I simply chose to finish my shopping before heading back because it would have been clumsy for me to leave in the middle of shopping, walk 5-10 minutes to my car, move it, walk another 5-10 minutes back to the store to complete my shopping, then walk yet another 5-10 minutes back to my car when I was done. Plus, there were plenty of empty spots when I started charging - it didn't occur to me they'd all fill up. (I'm a relatively new owner and use SCs very infrequently - so I do not have great sense how usage ebbs and flows).
But if this is what established Tesla SC etiquette demands of me so be it. I'm asking because I want to good member of the community. I figured there had to be some sort of informal grace period before having to move your car. Perhaps I was wrong.�
Jan 21, 2016
DCGOO Actually, it sounds you you ARE a bit of an assh*le (to use your description). You said you arrived back at your car 45 minutes after it stopped, longer than it took to charge I imagine. That is pretty poor behavior IMO.�
Jan 21, 2016
yo mama I'm here proactively asking for advice in an effort to understand what's customary and instead I get name calling? That seems uncalled for.�
Jan 21, 2016
m2140 Proper charging etiquette dictates that you only hold a charging spot only while you are charging. As soon as the car notified you charging is completed you should move your car as soon as possible.
Let me give you another example. This last x-mas break I took a trip half way across the country. My overnight stop was in Gallup. I got there with 10% battery. I parked at the supercharger and as soon as the car notified me the battery was at 100% I got up and moved my car over a slot so that all supercharger would be open.�
Jan 21, 2016
yo mama Okay, that's helpful. If I may ask, if my car finishes charging while I'm in the middle of dinner at a restaurant, or at movie, am I expected to excuse myself and move my car? Honest question - just trying to get a handle on what's expected of me.�
Jan 21, 2016
m2140 If your parked at a supercharger, YES.
Superchargers are for fast charging and should not be occupied if your not charging. I personally would not use them while at a movie. At dinner I would if my battery was low and I needed 45 min or more charge.
At a level 2 charger there is a little more wiggle room. If you really don't need the charge don't use it at all. Or leave a note on your car or in plugshare so that someone that needs to charge can call you.
If you need to charge and level 2 is your only option and need it, make sure you leave a note in plugshare or on the car. If you don't have a lock for the J plug you will be disconnected by angry leaf or i3 drivers. I've seen it done to other s owners.�
Jan 21, 2016
yo mama Okay then. Glad I asked.�
Jan 21, 2016
AWDtsla The app should tell you when all the other stalls are full and you should move your vehicle now.
Technology should be a solution instead of telling everybody they're an A**hole.�
Jan 21, 2016
DCGOO It was your self described term. I just repeated it back to indicate I disagreed with you not being one of those things. Thats all.�
Jan 21, 2016
m2140 But that assumes that everyone is using the app. Tesla owners are the worst offenders when it comes to checking in on the plugshare app.
Can't tell you how many times I arrived at a supercharger with all the spots full and not a single checkin on plug share.
You also need to consider that none of the charging network actually talk to plugshare. All the data on plug share is from the community. It would be great if they all talked to a single entity so that we can see if stations are full so that we can make alternate plans.�
Jan 21, 2016
DCGOO I never sign in to Plugshare at a Supercharger, after all they are not truly shared anyway, only Teslas can use them. Typically there are 6 to 10 positions, so not nearly as critical. I do try to remember to sign in at non-Tesla owned chargers, where there often is only 1. Besides, I kinda like seeing what other types of vehicles have been by.�
Jan 21, 2016
AEdennis I check in on SCs sporadically, especially at the tighter ones...�
Jan 21, 2016
AWDtsla Why should a Tesla owner check-in on plugshare???
The TESLA app should tell you how full superchargers are before and during charging.�
Jan 21, 2016
m2140 In CA supercharger use is high. Specially in Nor Cal. When I visited San Jose area I regularly had a 15-30 min for supercharger. I could have made different plans if only tesla owners used plugshare. In Indiana I don't see it being a problem yet. But wait for when the model 3 is out. It's better to start the correct behavior now.�
Jan 21, 2016
m2140 The app does not do that yet.�
Jan 21, 2016
m2140 Also consider that Tesla has been advertising they are willing to let other manufacturer use their charging network.�
Jan 21, 2016
AWDtsla There's your problem.�
Jan 21, 2016
m2140 I heard a rumor a while back from the delivery guys that Tesla may include a feature like that as part of trip planner. Having it part of the app would be great.
Right now we can only see if a station is down and from the car with 7.1
In the mean time the only option are apps like plugshare. I would highly encourage all tesla owners to use it and follow proper etiquette at all chargers.�
Jan 21, 2016
TexasEV I'm sorry, I don't agree with your description of someone as an "offender" for not checking in on Plugshare at a supercharger. If you do it, I think you are the outlier, not the person who doesn't. I use Plugshare to find J1772s and CHAdeMOs. I check in to tell people they're working (or not). I see no value whatsoever to Plugshare for superchargers. I know where they are. Even if people did use it to check in, some would be gone or nearly finished by the time you get there. In my part if the country there is no alternative to the supercharger I'm approaching anyway, so I would stop there even if there is a wait.�
Jan 21, 2016
m2140 I understand where your coming from. But there are just not enough Teslas or EVs around in Texas for wait times and capacity to be a problem. In California it's starting to become a problem and it will only get worse as Tesla and EVs get more popular.
I think it's hard to get Tesla guys to think like your typical EV owner. The big battery combined with a convenient growing network of superchargers really takes away the stress of owning an EV.
Before my Tesla I had an i3. With only 70-90 mile range I relied heavily on the plugshare community. Users would check in or post available spots and I could plan my trip better and if needed make alternate plans in route.
I was furious every time a Tesla or PHEV would take up a spot without checking in. I literally could not get home without a charge.
In silicone valley I saw all the superchargers always busy during rush hour at multiple stations. We saw it on this forum around Christmas where Tejon pass had 1 to 1.5 hr wait times. If the Tesla owners used plugshare the backlog of cars and extended wait times could have been avoided. Those traveling could have spent more time at the previous supercharger and avoid the congested stations.�
Mar 27, 2016
ShotgunF15E The solution, IMHO, is simple:
1) Don't park if there if you're not charging (else you get a ticket from parking enforcement officers)
2) If you are charging, you get a free 5 min grace period when the battery is full, then it's a heavy $$$/min fee to stay connected.
It should be similar to a city street parking meter.
Lastly, all EV charging stations (including Tesla's) should be network connected to report real-time occupancy stats. There is no excuse to not know how many open slots are are any given station.�
Mar 27, 2016
Bonlaw This is a site I regularly use and also report.�
Mar 27, 2016
John Stuckey What are your thoughts about leaving my MS plugged into a SC when I am the only Tesla user at the site? I have a placard with my name and cell number on it with a message to call me if anyone needs my spot. I have never seen more than one other car at an SC and 99% of the time I am the only car. Sometimes when I go to lunch I plug in to a SC just to advertise Tesla. I have not gotten a nasty-gram from the mothership. PS I live a long way from the East/ West coasts and have never used anything but an SC and my home HPWC.�
Mar 27, 2016
Andyw2100 The problem is even if you could get 100% of the Tesla owners who use TMC to use Plugshare 100% of the time they Supercharge, you'd still wind up with 80 or 90% of Supercharger use not being entered into Plugshare. The solution to the problem you would like to see solved is not Plugshare. The solution to the problem you would like to see solved is Tesla incorporating information into the Tesla apps and possibly into the Trip Planner about real-time supercharging activity.
Tesla has the ability to solve the problem almost perfectly. Nothing else can even come close.�
Mar 27, 2016
Andyw2100 I have no problem with this.
The chances that the SC fills up are quite slim, and you have made yourself reachable in the event that it does fill up. I wouldn't sweat it.�
Mar 28, 2016
Darryl This this is no different than non-handicap people parking in handicap parking spots. When questioned they say no one was using it or I am not parked I am just waiting for someone and have the car running. I have been disabled for 20 years. There are days I can get way with just a cain, other days I am in a wheel chair. I will eventually be in a wheel chair all of the time. (Three spinal surgeries in four years, six spinal surgeries total) I have to get out of the car, get my wheel chair out to go up and ask the people to move, then if they do move I have to go back to the car put the wheelchair in the car and move the car into the parking spot (if someone else hasn't already parked there. Sometimes they say "I am not parked i am waiting for someone." and sometimes they don't move until you call the police. Usually when you get your camera out and start to take a picture they move and at the same time calling you named. You also have to worry they are crazy and have a gun. I have had a gun pointed at me. If I have an appointment I usually have to arrive 20-30 minutes ahead of schedule.
I recently volunteered at a EV show. It was on the property of a large government aerospace contractor. There were eight charging spots, four of the spots were taken up by EV cars but none were plugged in, the other four spaces were taken by non-EV cars and the four handicap spots were taken by cars without handicap stickers are placards. Twelve spots and none of them with legally parked cars. I asked the security guard who said the spots weren't being used so they allowed anyone to park in them, I asked where I could complain and they said I would have to complain in person in a different building. When I got to the other building the two handicap spots were taken by non-handicap people. I turned around and went home. I know a lot of people abuse handicap spots just like there are many who abuse EV parking privilege. I and others complained to the police about a grocery store handicap parking they had someone who would patrol the lot. This reduced the abuse. I think reporting to the police people who park illegally by taking a picture of the car making sure to get the plate and lack of a plugged in cord and sending it to the police is a way to push the issue. The Model X works great as it is easy for me to get in and out and easy to store and access my wheelchair.�
Mar 28, 2016
GKwey OMG, @Darryl. Are you serious? You are handicapped and you drive a P90DL MX? How your body handle the ludicrous mode?�
Mar 28, 2016
BertL I personally also have no problem with this, as it's close to what I do including the placard -- except that as soon as my charge is complete, I do go move my MS as soon as I've finished my meal or can get back to the MS. I never want someone to think I'm using a charging spot as a parking stall -- ever. While "advertisement" is an interesting concept, I figure there are enough logos on the Spc to make up for not having my MS parked there at the same time, and my MS being somewhere else actually does a better job of getting the word out.
�
Mar 28, 2016
Andyw2100 �
Mar 28, 2016
Andyw2100 I'm sorry, Darryl, but it is completely different. Night and day different. Not in any way the same. I can't say this emphatically enough to demonstrate how strongly I feel that you are wrong.
When inconsiderate people park in handicap spots, they have no way of knowing how many people who truly need those spots may be coming along that may need them. And as you point out, even if the person remains in the car, it could be very inconvenient for the person with the handicap permit to have to get out of their car to communicate with person who parked illegally, etc.
In the situation John Stuckey describes, there is a 99.999% certainty that the charging spots are not going to fill up with other Teslas and then result in someone showing up and not being able to charge. In the parts of the country he is talking about there just aren't enough Teslas for that to happen. I would feel differently if we were talking about California, or perhaps if we were having this conversation in a few years, but we're not. On top of that, John Stuckey is leaving his contact information, so in the 1 in 100,000 chance that all the spots fill up and another car needs to charge, that person is going to be inconvenienced perhaps five or ten minutes, at the most.
It really is nothing like parking in a handicap spot.�
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