Nov 7, 2013
Todd Burch Owners only: Knowing what you know about the fires, if you had to do it over again would you buy the Model S again?�
Nov 7, 2013
carrerascott Hard to say. I love my S, but before plunking down $100k+ for a car, you want to wait and find out if there is a design flaw, or if these are truly flukes. This will affect sales, IMHO. Q4 could fall well short if this isn't cleared up quickly.
I would say if I was just thinking of ordering, I would be on the "wait and see" fence right now.�
Nov 7, 2013
Todd Burch Although this poll will be biased, I suspect it will lean heavily to the yes side, which will indicate how small this road debris accident will play in the long term health of the company.�
Nov 7, 2013
tomas I do not understand the obsession with fire. If a vehicle crashes or gets struck by road debris at highway speed, there's a good likelihood it is totaled. So, put aside the issue of damage to the vehicle, insurance rates, etc. A highway accident gets that result.
So, the next important question: did anyone get hurt? It seems to me that whether or not the totaled car burned is tertiary.
This is the typical media circus - millimeter deep coverage gives the impression the car is just spontaneously bursting into flames all over the place. No, somebody crashed it or hit something. At high speed. And lived to tell the story.
Very happy if Tesla Motors looks for ways to protect better against debris. But, not freaking out!
PS, I actually had my 1978 Ford Fiesta spontaneously catch fire (faulty wiring) in 1980. Maybe I'm silly, but I did not call the NHTSA... just pulled over, got out quick, and called Allstate. Goofball that I am, I just figured that could happen with a box full of wires and gasoline.�
Nov 7, 2013
glhs272 I still think people are focusing on the wrong statistic here. Even if the Model S has higher likelihood of fire over miles driven, what matters to me is the number of severe injuries and fatalities to miles driven or number of severe accidents. Everything I have seen thus far shows the Model S is the most likely to keep me safe in the event of a severe accident. That said there is no reason Tesla should not be doing everything they reasonably can to reduce the fire risk. I think that risk will improve as these cars evolve.
Edit:
Tomas got to the same point first
�
Nov 7, 2013
carrerascott Not freaking out here either, and will happily drive mine. But if I was writing a check today, I would wait a bit and see where it falls.
My wife and son are in the car a lot, and this is a $100k+ car. If these are normal, fine -- I know cars catch fire. But <1 year old >$100k cars... I don't know. Obviously if 3 Porsche Panameras caught fire, we probably never heard of it. But this is new technology, and any "don't know" items, can be bothersome...�
Nov 7, 2013
yobigd20 I would absolutely without hesitation buy again.
This was an ACCIDENT. All these incidents were the result of an accident. Not some spontaneous combustion event.
In any accident situation, results are unpredictable depending on the nature of the accident. But in all of these fire-relates accident it still comes down to a BAD driver running over road debris or not paying attention and crashing.
Regardless of those BAD drivers, in every single Tesla accident, fires and no fires, and regardless if whose fault the accident even was, not a single Tesla occupant has died or been significantly injured in any way.
This fire doesn't change anything. This still remains the safest car in the world. It is still innovative and many many ways and unbelievably awesome to drive.
I love my S. And I can't wait to add an X to my garage some day too.�
Nov 7, 2013
Todd Burch For the record, you couldn't pry my car out of my cold, dead hands!�
Nov 7, 2013
carrerascott I'm not at all thinking of selling. Love the car and will drive it till it catches fire.�
Nov 7, 2013
Doug_G I would not hesitate for a second. All three incidents were due to collisions (debris or otherwise). No one was hurt. ICE cars catch fire all the time - the only reason this is even slightly newsworthy is that it's an electric car.�
Nov 7, 2013
Gizmotoy I think I'd feel safer if the battery was a little better protected. Aluminum as an armor plate is starting to look somewhat ineffective. Still, the advantages of that decision are obvious.
The only concern I have is looking at the two tow hitch incidents: one had minor-looking damage that require the replacement of the entire battery at a cost of $50k. The other started a fire.
Let's look at the damage case. Were that car 2-3 years old, it likely would have been totaled (repair ~>75% current market value). So I wouldn't say the fires concern me in the least. Battery damage, though, is a little concerning.�
Nov 7, 2013
AMPd I know I don't belong here seeing as how I don't own a model s, but I will still be purchasing the model s when I have enough cash saved up.
I have absolutely no hesitation about writing TM a check for 115+k for the best vehicle in the world!�
Nov 7, 2013
bareyb I would definitely buy the car again, but I wouldn't buy the stock at $178.00 again��
Nov 7, 2013
glhs272 I could be wrong but I suspect part of the reason for the $50K cost of the battery is because Tesla is battery supply limited. Meaning one battery sold as a spare part is one less car they can sell for the year. They are recovering the profit they would otherwise make on selling an entire car in selling the battery by itself. Most of the replacement batteries being sold are being charged to insurance companies (so they feel justified in the high price?) or warranty replacements. So the 50K cost doesn't really reflect the true cost of the battery. Therefore in 3 years when battery supplies are no longer a production constraint, replacement batteries will become much cheaper......hopefully. That is when many cars will be coming off warranty and lower cost solutions will be more important.�
Nov 7, 2013
birdsaresmarter This is part of being an early adopter of new technology and business model. I look at outcome. So far there have been a number of serious accidents and, as far as I know, people are generally walking away without serious injury. So far only thing really "injured" is the car. If there is anything to be learned and improved upon from this, I have confidence that TM will do it. Is it a surprise that "battery technology" can stand improvement? I don't think so. Has TM done a pretty fine job so far? I think so.�
Nov 7, 2013
Raffy.Roma Agree 100%. You got the main point. Hope we will have soon some battery improvements.�
Nov 7, 2013
neroden The fires don't even make me blink. All three fires were due to severe collisions of the sort which regularly kill people in ICE cars.
(There are other things which would make me question whether to buy a Tesla again, but they're all about the company, not about the car.)�
Nov 7, 2013
Gizmotoy Definitely agree. I think we can be certain battery cost will decline. I'm just crossing my fingers it declines at least at roughly the rate of depreciation, or battery damage is going to be totaling a lot of cars, jacking up insurance rates. Success of the follow-up cars will also be a factor in demand.�
Nov 7, 2013
PeterK I think it goes beyond just being electric - it's a chance to take Tesla down off its high pedestal of glowing reviews, NHTSA rating, and rapidly appreciated stock price, like Broder tried to do. The daggers are more out for Tesla than Leaf or Volt.
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And by the way, I would buy mine again in a heartbeat, though probably with heated rear seats and parking sensors...�
Nov 7, 2013
detlefo I won't belabor restating all that should be obvious that these were accidents, catastrophic to the car but the drivers all walked away. The one addition I would make is that in each case the car's telemetry told Tesla that it had been in an accident and Tesla proactively contacted the owner to ask if they were OK. How often has this happened with any other main stream car? I'm sure that Tesla will evaluate the damage and will learn from these incidents. I would not hesitate to recommend the car to anyone. It is probably the safest car on the road today.�
Nov 7, 2013
qwk Honestly, I bought my car at the very beginning(old pricing), and after the test drive thought to myself "this car is way too cheap for what you get". I would have paid twice what I did. Of course, Tesla figured this out fairly quickly.
I would suspect that once somebody has driven a Model S for a few months, it would be extremely difficult to go back to any other car.
The recent fires don't bother me a bit, in fact I see it as plenty of used parts becoming available for when my car is out of warranty(I work on all my own stuff).�
Nov 7, 2013
loganss I'd buy again in a heart beat. If the battery on the underside is a "design flaw" that has allowed all drivers in the car to escape all accidents reported so far, sign me up for some more "design flaws". With all that stored energy a fire with any transportation vehicle is bound to happen. So far Tesla has the most controlled fires of vehicles I can think of thanks to the great engineering. Sure they could shield the underside some more but you can't engineer out everything just most.�
Nov 7, 2013
davecolene0606 
We hit this the other night, bout 45mph, 2 flats on pax side, called Tesla roadside, they had flatbeded to Dania. Car inspected, tires replaced and car returned next day. $$ for,the tires, that's it!
(60kw STD suspension 21" wheels)
We have a Sig and this one. Tesla has been flawless in execution and the safety of the vehicle just keeps being reinforced IMHO.
+1 on you couldn't pry them our cold dead hands!
Cheers!
Dave & Colene�
Nov 7, 2013
Krugerrand Clearly, you lack serious skills at driving over debris if all that happened was needing some new tires after driving over that. :biggrin:�
Nov 7, 2013
100thMonkey I would have no reservations about buying again. that said, Tesla needs to react very differently this time around. rather than trying to explain this away as a statical anomaly, they need to be proactive, suggest that real world use has, despite all the extensive testing and amazing test scores, revealed a vulnerability to the battery pack. They need to find a way to reinforce the underside of the vehicle, or in some other way drastically reduce the likelihood of armor puncture leading to battery fire. a retrofit is likely in order, that will apply to all cars, essentially, I hate to say it, a recall. This is not to make the fans like me happy, it is what will be required by the nervous nanny public to keep selling the product.
Also, IMHO, they should make the back door handles mechanical, like the front, so that exit during an emergency is more intuitive... a pull tab is rather difficult to get to when it's the parent trying to reach a child in a car seat... says the father of a 2.5 and 4.5 year old.�
Nov 7, 2013
epley Ditto.�
Nov 7, 2013
neroden If it gives me a chance to buy more TSLA stock at a cheap price, I won't complain.�
Nov 7, 2013
glhs272 To those who voted "No", care to share why?�
Nov 7, 2013
tomas Respectfully, I would modify your admonition to Tesla. They should look into reinforcing in order to reduce the probability of road debris causing a total loss of car. Be that from fire, or otherwise damaged battery and other components. I'm just tired of the obsession with fire. It should be about safety of the passenger first and second, and repairability of the car third. Fire is a four letter word that just isn't in the equation for me.�
Nov 7, 2013
lolachampcar I'm a yes.
I sent Ownership an email asking for some ammunition. Specifically, I asked them to generate some high end ICE (MB, BMW, Audi,,) fire data per mile compared to our current experience with MS. I'm increasingly getting questions about fires and it would be helpful to have properly referenced data to compare the two. I would think everyone on the customer interface side for Tesla could use this as well.
In the interim, I'll continue to explain that all occupants were given ample warning of an issue and were able to exit before there was a fire. I'll also point out that, unlike ICE, the MS' in question were all relatively undamaged and all passenger compartments were intact. Most ICE are reduced to smoldering piles of trash and in very short order.�
Nov 7, 2013
mep For me the question is not so much how many Tesla's burst into flames and whether Elon then claims that the car is less likely to catch fire than an ICE. The real issue is not how many cars are on the road and catch fire in an accident but how many cars that are involved in a car crash go up in flames. I do not have the exact number just an estimate: There are about 11 million car accidents in the US per year (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1103.pdf). I am not sure how many of them actually involve a crash, let's say half of them. That is 5.5 million. We heard that there are about 150,000 car fires a year. That translates into one car fire for every 37 crashes. So the real question is how many Model S have crashed and how many times did they catch fire. If more than 100 of the 19,000 Model S out there have been involved in a crash than the Model S would be as likely to catch fire in a crash as an ICE. No big deal. That would certainly not affect my decision to buy a Model S again. If more than 500 MS were in an accident then Elon would be right that the MS is 5 times less likely than an ICE to catch fire. Without these numbers I can actually see people right now being hesitant. So if Elon wanted to really put out a meaningful number this is what Tesla should do assuming that total crash numbers are available. I assume that they have these numbers since they should have the means to monitor every single MS ever made.
Oh, I forgot to give my vote. Yes, I would buy one again. Love it and I feel safe but Tesla could do a little more to address these fire cases (see above).�
Nov 7, 2013
Todd Burch Since only one voted no...we can't use "those"�
Nov 7, 2013
AWDtsla Somehow my X5 driving friend made fun of the Tesla fires. Even though his engine is leaking oil and power steering fluid all over the place and the BMW dealer quoted him at $6000 to fix. That thing could go up in flames any minute... He's been seen driving down the road with a trail of smoke behind him.
Can't rationalize with the irrational.�
Nov 7, 2013
neroden Having had a gas tank damaged by a collision with nothing more than a hunk of ice, requiring a total replacement (costs ~$5000 IIRC), I really think the Model S holds up better than that ICE. It takes a *much worse* collision with a piece of *metal* debris to penetrate the battery pack, it seems.�
Nov 7, 2013
Andrew Yes, yes, yes!�
Nov 7, 2013
Merrill Personally this whole subject of Tesla fires have been over blown in a big way. Anything can happen when you are driving on the highway in a car going 60 miles an hour with 4500 lbs of metal. Cars crash and burn everyday, why is it that Tesla gets so much bad press when a few of its cars drive over some heavy metal. To me it is more of the media looking for a story that they can peddle to the general public. This does not in anyway change my view of the car and the people that will not buy this car because of this media hype should probably not own a car like this. Let's move on to something more important like do not drink Merlot, you must drink Pinot Noir!!!!!�
Nov 7, 2013
Wenche No second thoughts, I love my Model S 85+, have a reservation for Model X, and hope I will get reservation #01 of Model E for Europe:smile:�
Nov 7, 2013
STxTesla I question my purchase of the Model S ... not due to the news on the fires but because of my personal experience with the tire wear on the inside tread of my rear tires. I could have easily gone without replacing the tires and ended up in a blowout at high speed but I was lucky. A couple in a parking lot pointed out that my right rear tire looked low and that I should have it checked out. Had that not occurred....I may have had a bad experience. I had received warnings about my tire pressures that was initially false...so I did not trust subsequent warnings about low tire pressure, so I know now that I need to check tire pressures at least every other week for safety's sake. This tire safety factor and the fact that I had to replace my rear tires at ~ 8000 miles had me thinking about replacing my Model S with a BMW 5 series diesel. I have definitely had thoughts of selling my Signature Series Model S because of the tire safety issue. (PMs with offers may be considered).�
Nov 7, 2013
Shumdit I hope that person will have the nerve to post his/her feelings as to why it's a no for them and I hope we as a group can refrain from attacking them for their viewpoint. Then again, it could just be BillHamp or another non-owner trolling around.�
Nov 7, 2013
Duckjybe First, how many times have I run over debris that could cause significant damage to my car? Not once in 31 years. The probability of this happening is close to nil. Second, I know I will be fine. Third, no one should criticize the safety of Model S until they have watched all the NHTSA crash test videos. I have seen them all and the Model S fairs unbelievably well in all of them. Is it invincible? No. But I feel very safe driving my family in it. This issue is way overblown.�
Nov 7, 2013
SouthJerseyJon Yes and I still cant wait to configure our Model X!�
Nov 7, 2013
meloccom You should read this thread Abnormal-Tire-Wear and go and have your wheel alignment checked ASAP.�
Nov 7, 2013
TsRocket Absolutely! Dont ever hit anything in the road. Try even to avoid the potholes?
My mercedes with the cant of the tires, ate rubber, maseratis are worse. If you drive like a bat out of hell (like we do sometimes, cuz it feels good) you leave rubber on the road. Face it. Get tire insurance from American Tire/Discount Tire on west coast, and they warrant the tread, and give you some help, plus fix the errant screw that these cars must magnetically pick up, for FREE. Just a suggestion.�
Nov 7, 2013
Mr X These fires have not differed my extreme obsession with the car in any way.�
Nov 7, 2013
tezzla I've had two cars that caught fire in my 40 years of driving and neither one of them made the news!
fyi: both were in the 70's (electrical & oil leak)�
Nov 7, 2013
Grendal I haven't bought my first one yet, but of course not. I still have every intention of buying one as my signature line says. Until a Model S begins to spontaneously catch on fire there isn't any big problem in my mind. Tesla might, and I emphasize might, need to look at beefing up front of the pack against road debris. I trust that Tesla engineers will check out what happened and determine what needs to be done. For PR purposes they should do something even if it is not a big change just to relieve people's fears.�
Nov 7, 2013
DCWitt The news of Tesla fires is being exploited by the media because everything "Tesla" sells. Tesla is a revolutionary bundle of new technology. People love to read about it. If these fires occurred in an internal combustion automobile, no one outside a 50 mile radius of the incident would even hear about it. I drove my P85 about 300 miles today and successfully dodged road debris on I-65... twice. My Model S is unbelievably nimble and quick, so I was lucky to be driving such a capable car.
I think I have read that there are about 15,000 automobile fires per month in the United States. These fires result in about 35 fatalities each month.
3 Tesla fires in the last year (roughly), resulting in no injuries? Even if three fires per year is statistically significant with less than 20,000 S's on the road, I'm personally very comfortable with the quality and engineering in the Model S, heck, more accurately, I should say I'm dazzled. It's a GREAT car.
So... yes, I would absolutely order my Tesla Model S again! And,I can't wait to get my next Tesla, an all wheel drive Model X.�
Nov 7, 2013
TsRocket I'm not scared.�
Nov 7, 2013
STxTesla The tire wear is not on the bottom of the tire....it occurs on the inside sidewall....VERY dangerous if unnoticed. Tire wear on the sidewall in my mind is unacceptable.�
Nov 7, 2013
Norcalgal I would buy again. This lady Tesla driver loves her car.�
Nov 7, 2013
bareyb You're not the same Norcalgal from the TiVo forums are you? If so, congrats, if not, hello and congrats.�
Nov 7, 2013
ecarfan My S85 is coming in December. I have no second thoughts about spending far more money on a Tesla than I ever have on a car. I can't wait to start driving it!�
Nov 7, 2013
gameon this is one put many to think differently. You keep telling that it is safest car with 100k price tag.
Also EV don't catch fire was notion among many buyers (me too up to some extend) but in reality people will think differently.
Now wait more to see how battery perform, maintenance out of warranty, mechanical issues after using it for 4-5 years etc (didn't got any reply on other thread for such information).. I am not even talking about comparing ICE of 4-5 year with similar miles but it's up to individual owner to decide.
just for curiosity how many leaf got on fire (serious don't know but just checking), spark EV is new so not counting...
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-survives-massive-fire-48268.html
above link tells otherwise.. I was expecting such thing from tesla or imaging it will never happen to tesla cars.... little disappointed for sure�
Nov 7, 2013
wcalvin Yes, I would buy a Model S again. Best front end crumple design ever. What looks like a good design for slowing down battery fires, once they start. Has handling that reduces the number of loss-of-control and overturning incidents.
Even if the numbers should eventually show that crash fires are more likely in a Model S than average, I'd bet that the numbers will also show that more occupants walk away from a Tesla crash or fire than for ICE cars with an engine up front and gasoline to vaporize.
Apropos news coverage, success always creates a counter niche for criticism. No sooner does a popular candidate gain office than it sets up critics with a pulpit.
Same for Tesla and its rave reviews: they enhance the ability of critics to get air time in a way that has little to do with the validity of the points they make. Indeed, some media milk them for "grabbing attention" and therefore ratings enhancement.�
Nov 7, 2013
StephenM Absolutely, positively no hesitation to do it all over again. Proud to be part of the group of early adopters who believe in the change that is coming to the automotive landscape, that is Tesla.�
Nov 8, 2013
Yggdrasill I haven't bought yet, but this latest fire doesn't matter much. I still want to buy next year.
The only thing I will consider a bit closer is the air suspension. I've been a bit hesitant to get the air suspension due to maintenance-concerns, purchase cost and issues with lowering onto curbs, and this road debris vulnerability might finally swing me over to the standard suspension.�
Nov 8, 2013
FredTMC Yep. I'd buy again without hesitation. Safest car on the road. That being said, TM will address this debris puncture issue and resolve it. This company moves faster than any other.�
Nov 8, 2013
Al Sherman ^^^This^^^ EXACTLY.
I guess I'd get over it if the MS wasn't available for whatever reason. At this point, I can't imagine how much just driving to the grocery store would suck without this car. I'm addicted. I'm never going back.�
Nov 8, 2013
evhub Yes.. the incidents occured due to collisions... even all vehicles will have same effect due to collision .. why Tesla motor car fire getting highlighted? Is this because it is an EV?�
Nov 8, 2013
swon Yes. Thank goodness for the Internet & being able to get detailed information on the fires, along with a professional analysis from Tesla and large, color photos. Fire #1 was from road debris. Fire #2 was from an accident. Fire #3 was apparently also from road debris. The Model S is not spontaneously combusting like the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. All of the occupants have made it out alive. In all three accidents, the fire has been limited to the frontal portion of the car. Of the 19,000 Tesla Model S cars on the road, no one has yet been killed inside one during an accident, over a nearly 18-month period on public streets.
Are the fires scary? Sure, especially since they burn & burn & burn. Not to be morbid, but the "no deaths" record will not stand forever. Statistically, someone will eventually die in a Tesla and someone will eventually burn to death in a battery fire, and it will be horrible. But statistically, 150,000 ICE car fires happen every year and a lot of people die in those as well, but people accept that as a risk of driving gasoline-powered cars. The Tesla has an extremely high 5-star NHTSA safety rating, a 1/4" metal plate underneath 16 firewalled battery cells, and an emergency warning system for the driver, which is pretty great. There's also no gas to spill & light on fire in the event of an accident, which is nice.
So despite the recent news, is Tesla still a viable option? For me, definitely. Yes.�
Nov 8, 2013
vfx �
Nov 8, 2013
wormhole So interesting how people respond to this. How many Accords and Camry's have fires? More importantly, how many of those are spontaneous as opposed to striking a piece of metal debris, dragging it for some until distance causing it to spark, and then having the car TELL you to pull over and get out with no injuries to speak of, and all drives emphatically saying the car saved their lives and they are buying another?
I'd buy it again no question. Fires unfortunately are the norm for cars, be they ICE or electric...the difference is electric cars don't blow up.�
Nov 8, 2013
Andrew Very well said.�
Nov 8, 2013
Mike_Schlechter Maybe it is because I'm also a volunteer firefighter, so I have seen many car fires over the years, but this doesn't concern me even a little bit. When cars hit things at a high rate of speed bad things happen, including fire. My biggest concern is that Model S owners are driving so fast and feel so safe (as the car is damn fast and damn safe) that they are putting themselves and others at greater risk (good old kinetic energy!).
That said, I drive my Model S 120 miles a day to and from work, and have been for 11 months, and haven't looked back even once. Fires will happen. Batteries are energy dense. In the end, if this means Tesla has to add additional shielding to the battery to deal with what appears to me to be more drama than trauma, so be it. The car will still be awesome if no changes are made. Remember, three fires isn't a trend when looking at a data set of 19000 vehicles on the road. Especially when you look at the second fire, which was a drunk driver who crashed through a wall. Anything would burn in that situation.�
Nov 8, 2013
Norcalgal No, not me. I have had my Tesla since March. It's funny today someone ask me if I enjoyed my car. I gave him a short version of how much I love my Tesla.�
Nov 8, 2013
stevezzzz I drive an S, owned a Roadster, have a Sig X reservation, and I'm long TSLA. This Kool-Aid tastes pretty good...
But, seriously: the S is such a stunning achievement and such a pleasure to drive, not to mention so safe, that I don't find the recent post-accident fires concerning at all. I'm betting TM will learn from these incidents and improve an already outstanding product.�
Nov 8, 2013
nirad Not an owner. I have been a lurker here who has been considering buying. I am going to wait now to see how the company deals with this issue. Will there be a recall and some kind of retrofit? I may also not order the air suspension which I had planned to include until now. The roads here in Los Angeles are in pretty poor shape, so the debris issue does matter to me.�
Nov 8, 2013
William13 Batteries hold energy. Fires are expected. The Tesla fires are controlled. No injuries to people.
So far the Tesla looks to be the safest car on the road for its occupants.
I would buy my one year old car again. Most people I know would love to have my car.
BTW over time the Corvair turned out to be safe but fudged/misunderstood information eventually made Ralph Nader a presidential candidate.�
Nov 8, 2013
epares I have owned my Ms for 6 months and have been driving for 24 years. I have been fortunate enough over the years to have avoided hitting large objects on the highway. Life is full of scenarios that come into play very infrequently.
Should Tesla look at any way possible to minimize any penetration into the battery pack ? Absolutely...
Am I reconsidering my choice of vehicle? No way.
I work in NYC... On a windy day last year I saw a patio set blow off the roof of a building and almost hit someone on the street. Freak things happen every day.. If I hit something on the highway at a rapid click in my car will my spidey sense be tingling? Yes it will.... Every day I try to be as careful as possible.. I try not to drive too fast ( I know its hard in this car)... and I always look up on windy days... Drive safe and try not to run things over... that applies to any vehicle anywhere... nuff said....�
Nov 8, 2013
JohnnyMac Just voted. 6mos., 6k P85 owner. No issues. Poll reusults pretty much say all that needs to be said.�
Nov 9, 2013
artsci I really don't believe this poll has been posted. When I had a Chevy Volt I lived through all of the BS panic on its battery fires. This is the same nonsense. There is no issue here. When you crash a car bad things happen, but much less worse with Model S than an ICE. Sorry if I'm rude, but the lousy and biased corporate press coverage of EV fires angers me. This, forgive the pun, just fuels the fire of ignorance.�
Nov 9, 2013
Raffy.Roma I voted yes to this poll also if i still don't have a Model S, meaning to say that my intention to buy the Model S as soon as possible is unchanged in spite of the latest fire information. IMO the Model S is safe and the fires have only shown that in case of fire the Model S can still protect people inside the cabin.
Of course some improvements could be done with respect to the danger of road debris maybe in the frame of other new technical options on the Model S, but this another matter. The Model S is already a very safe car.�
Nov 9, 2013
Todd Burch Actually--I posted this poll for that very reason: because I knew the overwhelming majority of owners wouldn't be very concerned with this. It looks like my expectations were correct.�
Nov 9, 2013
highfalutintodd This is what I've been saying to people for months now. I have a hard time imagining going back to an ICE as a daily driver at this point. The fires give me a bit of pause mainly because of my concern for the long term health of the company. I believe in the car, I believe in Tesla, and I believe that they will absolutely do everything possible to prevent things like this from happening again. In the meantime, and for the record, I'm firmly in the "yes" column.�
Nov 9, 2013
Luclyluciano FOR THE RECORD.... I own a mercedes!
Mercedes-Benz catches on fire and explodes Comment Share
Michael BerenisTampa Sports Car Examiner
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January 29, 2010
Watching the Mercedes-Benz CL 500 burn to the frame and explode twice while on fire is a very sad sight. Even the highest safety technology can't prevent the worse from happening. Gasoline is a very explosive vapor, and all cars no matter their price are susceptible to the flames. Caught burning at an intersection outside of a mall in McLean, Virginia the CL 500 is captured on tape exploding not once, but twice. The fire truck arrives to extinguish the burning pile of German engineering, but it's too late and the vehicle is a total loss.
Looking at the footage, it's hard to say what caused this fire. There are many things that can cause a vehicle fire, but the most likely cause was some kind of electrical short in the fuel system. Or, if a fuel line breaks and leaks anywhere near the exhaust, that is another probable cause of fire. We also can't rule out occupant negligence. The cause of the fire is officially unknown, and all we can do is speculate. Mercedes-Benz takes extreme pride on their safety features and final product assembly and there is no cause to believe this is a manufacturing defect. It could very well be a little fire gnome going around and igniting high dollar luxury vehicles. We just don't know!
The truth is that vehicle fires happen all the time, no matter your make or model. The fact that you are driving around with one of the most volatile substances known to man is justification enough to say each ride is a roll of the dice. Did you know that every time you pump gas into your tank, you are creating thousands of volts through static electricity? Should the grounding systems of your car fail, it's very likely an explosion will take place. Vehicles are dangerous machines and should be carefully inspected as often as possible. You never know when the unfortunate will occur!
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I ALWAYS LIKES THE LOOK OF A NICE BMW BUT NOT ON FIRE.....
BMW catches fire, Chennai businessman burnt alive
TNN Jun 24, 2013, 04.17AM IST
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invest|Friends|BMW
HYDERABAD: A 25-year-old businessman from Chennai was burnt alive and two of his friends were injured when a BMW car that they were travelling in fell off the Outer Ring Road ramp at Pedda Amberpet in Hyderabad and caught fire on Sunday afternoon.
The victim was identified as Manoj, 25, from Chennai, while his friends Vasu and Ravi are from Hyderabad. The car that they were travelling in (TN 02 AL 2628) fell off the ramp at 1.30pm, when they were heading to Vijayawada.
Manoj went to Hyderabad a week ago to invest in a hotel and he had temporarily moved into a flat in the city.
Vasu, a software engineer in Madhapur, was driving the car from Gachibowli to Pedda Amberpet and lost control while negotiating a curve on the ORR ramp right before the tollgate at Pedda Amberpet. The vehicle toppled on the roadside after crashing through a safety railing.
Due to the high-speed collision, the rear portion of the car caught fire and the occupants cried out for help. Tollgate staff and locals rushed to the spot and managed to pull out Ravi and Vasu from the vehicle. "Manoj was stuck between the car and a portion of the railing which pierced through the car. By the time people could reach Manoj, flames had engulfed him and he was dead," police said.�
Nov 9, 2013
jandkw I voted yes because I believe in Tesla design and safety rating. However, my friends have been asking me about if I feel safe to drive after 3-fire incidents. I like to see if Tesla/Elon can investigate further to find some preventive measure instead of showing only the statistics between EV vs ICE car fires. I believe the latest down-slide of the company stock has something to do with the fires due to consumer confidence. Tesla has been drawing a lot of public attention due to the successful launch of Model S and any proactive measure will calm the public.�
Nov 9, 2013
omgwtfbyobbq I'm on the wait and see fence, mostly because a module redesign will probably result in lower prices for the pre-redesign vehicles.�
Nov 9, 2013
neroden Those on the fence are just looking for an excuse not to buy yet. There must have been hesitation anyway.
How is a non-spontaneous burning car, where no one was injured from the fire, world news?
Local news tells me at least two cars burned in my direct vicinity last night. One accident, one parked (!). No Tesla involved.
Having said this, all manufacturers should continuously improve on crash worthiness and non-flammability.�
Nov 9, 2013
lgagliardi Yeah.... drive careful, folks. Remember, the Model S can go as slow as you like -- great car for cruising in a parade or riding behind bicycles. No need to rush.
Don't be that guy. Please.�
1/1/2015
guest Yes, yes, yes, I would buy again. It is by far the greatest car on the planet!!�
Nov 12, 2013
mep I was trying to be conservative, although the numbers that are out there are between 150,000 and 200,000. Not sure where you are getting that 250,000 number from.
What I was trying to point out, maybe not in the most direct way, was that all these statistics I have seen are flawed (mileage driven, number of cars). Not very relevant. The only number that counts is fires per collision and since MS drivers are expected to drive a bit faster than the average car out there, speed also needs to be factored in, to some extend. What I meant to say is nicely summarized here:
Tesla's Fires: What Are Some Potential Long-term Ramifications? - Forbes�
Nov 12, 2013
ZombieLincoln666 Road debris doesn't usually total a car. It will do some damage, but you usually can replace the damaged parts.
Even if it is the case that the Tesla is more susceptible to this accident, we are still talking about very low probabilities of this occurring.�
Nov 12, 2013
EarlyAdopter Here, let me Google that for you:
Let me google that for you
One lit up during a review. Reviewer still liked it, would recommend one.
http://m.thenational.ae/lifestyle/motoring/over-engineered-porsche-panamera-is-not-troubled-by-exhaust-fire
There are a couple of owner posted videos on YouTube I remember watching a year ago, but interestingly they're all marked private now.
Someone posted an NHTSA complaint after they hit a motorcycle with their Panamera and it caught fire (the Porsche, not the motorcycle. Motorcycle was fine.)
Porsche Panamera 2010-2013 - car safety information, failing parts, recalls, bulletins, complaints
Porsche even issued a recall due to risk of fire! Oh the horrors!
Porsche Recalls Cayenne, Panamera Vehicles for Fire Risk | Defective Products Attorney
But like you said, we never hear about it because catching fire is pretty par for the course for gasoline cars.�
Nov 12, 2013
ZombieLincoln666 Those aren't totaling the car.�
Nov 13, 2013
EarlyAdopter The review one wasn't. The two videos I saw most definitely were. We have no way to know wether the fourth one, the fire after minor collision NHTSA complaint, was or wasn't totaled.
Porsche has sold far fewer Panameras in the US than Tesla has the Model S, they're not old cars, yet there have been at least 4 fires, 3 or which were spontaneous, and Porsche issued a recall for fire problems.
Why are we even having this discussion?�
Nov 13, 2013
SFOTurtle Interesting about the Panamera fire risk, and especially the spontaneous fires. If something spontaneously catches fire, that's one thing. Quite another to catch fire several minutes after hitting a large, pointed metal object at freeway speed. (and just two out of 20,000 cars at that).�
Nov 20, 2013
DanielG We have to put this into perspective, both with cars in general (I think other cars have overall more problems, different ones, but cumulatively more and worse), as well as life. Stairs are deadly, but I still use them every day. The whole fire thing is a red herring, a canard par excellence.
Reminds me of the MSDS of pure water (Sigma molecular biology RNA-free, triple distilled), aka hydroxyhydrogen, diprotonated oxygen radical, hydrogenmonoxide, etc. Under reactivity of with water, there was a not "not yet assessed". It suggests some major problem, where there is none in sight.�
Nov 20, 2013
FreeOfPge
Hahaha, yep, I have to keep this MSDS for oxygen at my business:
http://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/msds/MAT12831.pdf�
Nov 20, 2013
lorih With all the media attention on Tesla and all the discussion here about the fires, why isn't this poll getting more attention? Results so far? Wow!!
When asked if they would purchase Model S again knowing what they know about road debris and fires, 389 people answered poll:
96% YES
3% maybe
1% no
You wouldn't think this if you've been reading the forum this past month. Makes you wonder if none of the vocal people on the other threads are actual owners.�
Nov 20, 2013
MikeC Ding ding ding�
Nov 20, 2013
brianman Some of us aren't fans of polls. Especially when it's several polls per topic that is already over-discussed.�
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