Thứ Ba, 31 tháng 1, 2017

Tesla Loses Two Model S Executives Before Sedan Makes Debut part 1

  • Jan 13, 2012
    grisnjam
  • Jan 13, 2012
    ckessel
    You know, yesterday Elon tweets about "herding cats" and I thought "that's weird, must be something frustrating at work" and I damn near decided to sit on my money for a few days. Should have trusted that instinct. I feel somewhat ill. Losing the chief engineer and chassis engineer? Yea, kind of crucial elements in a car.
    �
  • Jan 13, 2012
    vfx
  • Jan 13, 2012
    Lloyd
    OK, without getting too excited.........

    How much will the loss of Rawlinson and Sampson hurt Tesla and their future development?
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    Citizen-T
    He was. I just hope that he left for personal reasons, not because he didn't like choices that were made or something like that.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    rolosrevenge
    I am very curious to know why they left. Tempting to put more money into it, but this time it is a disturbing development that caused the fall. hhmmm.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    ckessel
    The fact it's two at once is what really bothers me. That can't be coincidence. People don't leave like that when things are going well.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    Citizen-T
    I wonder if they were bought out by another car maker. The fact that Tesla's technology is so far ahead of other EVs, and that the Cheif Engineer and Chassis Engineer left at the same time. Would not be surprised to see them at Nissan or GM or maybe even Fisker in the near future. If that happens, we might see some lawsuits too.

    Might just be about money.
    �
  • Jan 13, 2012
    Eberhard
    There are some non-prof at teslas top. They don't want to know what the customers want/need - destroying potential. I still wonder why they finally made a type 2 mennekes charging cable - after more then one year i was waiting for it.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    Eberhard
    They were destroying the value of their options.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    Citizen-T
    Found this on the official tesla forums, but no link.

    PETER RAWLINSON AND NICK SAMPSON LEAVE TESLA! | Forums | Tesla Motors
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    jcstp
  • Jan 13, 2012
    agileone
    From Forbes

    A Tesla spokesman told Reuters that �having completed conceptual and design engineering work on Model S, Peter has decided to step away to tend to personal matters in the U.K.� Sampson, Tesla added, had �fully transitioned� off the Model S at the time of his departure.

    The company said Jerome Guillen, formerly an engineer with Daimler AG, will assume Rawlinson�s duties. Former Volkswagen executive Eric Bach will take over for Sampson.

    TSLA in the regular session fell $5.46, or 19.3%, to $22.79; the stock has recovered a bit after hours, rebounding $1.33, or 5.8%, to $24.12.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    jcstp
    this is article on bloomberg
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    doug
    I heard the rumor that Rawlinson was out this morning. Looks like it's true. Odd to leave before launch. Looks bad regardless of the reasons.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    Doug_G
    It may not have actually been simultaneous, and could be completely uncorrelated. Announcing them together gets the bad news out of the way in one go.

    Personal reasons are entirely possible. I'm not sure how old Peter Rawlingson is, but he's obviously not a youngster and may be wanting to slow down. From all accounts it's a highly caffeinated environment at Tesla.

    In terms of timing, this is probably the best time to go if he wanted to bow out. You don't leave a company in the lurch by exiting in the middle of a major project. The vast bulk of the Model S engineering is complete; right now they're polishing the details and doing the production transition. Probably the major design elements of Model X have also been completed.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    stopcrazypp
    According to the article, one of the execs left for personal reasons, the other unknown. Both did proper handing off of work before leaving, and worthy replacements (from Daimler and Volkswagen) have already been found.

    As for the stock price, that's likely just an over-reaction, like Mycroft said.

    It'll definite rebound after the Model X event in February.
    �
  • Jan 13, 2012
    dnarva14
  • Jan 13, 2012
    JRod0802
  • Jan 13, 2012
    1young1
  • Jan 13, 2012
    Bluhorizan
  • Jan 13, 2012
    AnOutsider
    alReady being discussed in the "are you investing in Tesla" thread. There's also a thread about the announcement.

    Sent from my HTC Arrive using Board Express
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    doug
    Yeah, can we keep the discussion on this topic in one place? I've already had to merge four threads.

    So if you want to discuss the recent departure of Rawlinson and other executive(s) leaving Tesla, use this thread.
    If you specifically want to discuss stock price, use the thread JRod mentions. (Some of the posts there have already been moved here).
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    doug
    "Personal reasons" is typically code for something else.

    Wonder if this is related:
    https://twitter.com/#!/elonmusk/status/156927468836630528/photo/1

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  • Jan 13, 2012
    Mycroft
    Yep, between that and the herding cats thing, makes one go "hmmmmm".
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    clea
    a plausible explanation could be related to issues surrounding the three phase support ... if there was a conflict causing the departure.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    Fr23shjive
    From Elon Musk's twitter:

    Sometimes, it is not super fun to run a public company. The exec departure news at Tesla was way overstated.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    doug
    I really doubt it had anything to with 3-phase, that stuff is back burner. Job 1 is getting the 85 kWh Model S ready for North America. Everything else is secondary (including the 40 and 60 kWh versions).
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    dpeilow
    unless the penny dropped that the plug design won't work when it comes to the front burner...
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    doug
    The connector not working certainly would be front burner. But not sure how much these two guys would be involved with that. Let's not let what gets the majority of discussion here on TMC bias our perceptions. (I also don't want this to devolve into yet another connector discussion.)
    �
  • Jan 13, 2012
    AnOutsider
    I'll eat my hat and YouTube it if it has anything to do with three phase support :rolleyes:
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    ckessel
    Between the "denial" pic and herding cats thing, that's a bit disconcerting. Elon comes from the software world where schedules are almost hopelessly optimistic and overruns are the norm. If he was in conflict with other management about schedules, odds are much more likely things are behind rather than ahead.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    stopcrazypp
    From the cached version of the exec bios page http://www.teslamotors.com/about/executive-bios:
    The other exec, Nick Sampson was a vehicle and chassis engineering supervisor.

    It seems both have more involvement in chassis and mechanical engineering than with the connector and electrical side.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    goyogi
  • Jan 13, 2012
    Robert.Boston
    If I were to hazard a guess (and I'm about to, so so much for that rhetorical florish...)

    Given Rawlinson's and Sampson's roles as vehicle/chassis engineering, and assuming arguendo that their departures reflect some internal strife, then I would wager that the disagreement was about the Model X, not the Model S. The Model S is well past the point where Rawlinson/Sampson would have much input (and, consequently, they'd have few potential friction points). But, we are less than a month away from the Model X reveal, where a substantial amount of fundamental engineering must be at the forefront.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    clea
    I agree that if the departure is related to a difference of opinion it is most likely related to the X and not the S ... however we may never know whether it was conflict based or just time for Mr. Rawlinson to move on.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    AnOutsider
  • Jan 13, 2012
    WhiteKnight
    How did you hear this rumor? Just curious.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    gg_got_a_tesla
    Guys, I think it's much ado about nothing really. Peter Rawlinson was as far away from home (in the UK) as he could get in mainland US -it's a 10-hour nonstop from SFO-LHR. I'd put it down to homesickness. He's not even listed as an insider here: TSLA Insider Roster | Tesla Motors, Inc. Stock - Yahoo! Finance so, not sure how much he was able to cash out before leaving.

    Nick Sampson appears to be even further down the totem pole and so, could have left (or been pushed out) for a myriad reasons as happens in many fast-moving startups every so often.

    Tesla recovered from the loss of 3 bright engineers/managers in that small plane crash a couple of years ago. It'd not be any different now in my opinion.
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  • Jan 13, 2012
    Todd Burch
    I agree that this has near zero impact on the Model S.

    Now, if they lost their top manufacturing engineer, then I'd expect some delays...
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Cobos
    Assuming the disagreement angle could it actually be that the disagreement was on the Bluestar? I'm guessing as they will announce the design of the Model X in a month and HAVE shown it to some investors already mostly any important chassis construction decisions must have been locked down?
    The Bluestar on the other hand is still very much up in the air. Elon might have gone for steel instead of aluminum and Rawlinson wanted aluminum, or Rawlinson thought aluminum was not possible with intended price tag and hence his expertise is not needed any longer? I don't know of course just speculating wildly, though I guess as a Brit, the long travel might be an important factor. He is the right age to have a frail parent or sibling or some such that he might want to spend more time with - thus personal reasons.

    Cobos
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Robert.Boston
    Maybe, Cobos, and I know you're keen to get Bluestar underway. But my sense is that Tesla moves in a very deliberate and disciplined way from one project to the next. Between a "reveal" and a beta is where all the heavy-lifting engineering occurs. The reveal is largely in the hands of the car designer (Straubel's team); from beta to build, largely the production team. So, the engineering team's focus is now on the Model X, not Bluestar.

    {This is, of course, my speculation entirely, and assumes arguendo that Rawlinson and/or Thompson left over professional disagreements. I think it more likely that Rawlinson simply was exhausted by the Model S push and realized he didn't have another car, and another year away from the UK, in him.}
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Cobos
    As a smalltime investor in Tesla I of course want the Bluestar, but my interest has always been the Model S. I did put down the deposit July 2009 after all. I'm more curious as to when such a decision as to what material to use for the chassis or broadly how the chassis is designed gets settled? Assuming deliveries of the Model X in Q4 2013, when do they HAVE to decide on things like major chassis design?

    Cobos
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Eberhard
    Yes, it has something to do with 3-phase charging. If they had faced the same stubborn attitude of their bosses as we do with three phase charging then we wouldn't have wondered.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    AnOutsider
    Guess I'd better buy a tasty hat.

    Sent from my HTC Arrive using Board Express
    �
  • Jan 14, 2012
    Lloyd
  • Jan 14, 2012
    heems
    My 2c - the execs left because the S is having issues. They didn't think the (mid year) deadline was achievable given the number of problems still to be resolved in the S. So either of their own volition or Elon's desire to get rid of nay sayers on the team (aka cancer) they are parting ways. Each of us (reservation holders) will probably now have to contend with the deadline pushing back or an inferior product delivered on time. That's what the investors are smelling too...
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    JRP3
    That may be what investors think they are smelling but I'm guessing there is nothing to smell. The fact that two people left the company around the same time would be meaningless for almost any other company.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    rsquared99
    The Model S must still be going through the crash testing for real now, right? So, it's still possible for some test results to have caused problems with areas these guys were responsible for. Just pointing out that all of this speculation is just that. Or, maybe they wanted tea served in the conference room and Elon insisted on coffee.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Todd Burch
    All of this speculation reminds me of the 24 hour news cycle...
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Robert.Boston
    For me, the most troubling info was that pic of the "Denali" conference room photoshopped to "Denial".
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    gg_got_a_tesla
    That was no photoshop job. That was a twitpic from a tweet by Elon Musk a couple of days ago, all in jest.

    Twitter
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    ckessel
    Yea, it's sort of a sophomoric passive-aggresssive thing that concerning. When communication breaks down, people start taking little shots like that at each other rather than just hashing it out honestly. Elon doesn't exactly have a good history of calm, composed relationships. I really hope this all blows over, but it's the sort of thing that has potential to explode if it's not diffused.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    JRP3
    What exactly needs to be diffused? Maybe they were mad about this :wink:
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    ckessel
    I supposed that's the big question. The denial thing though is just a lame action. Why would you do that? Because you're feeling someone (or multiple someones) is in denial. You make a snide little jab like that when it didn't get resolved, not when it's been successfully hashed out. You think the other guy, an executive, is going to look at that and go "Oh, good one sir, well played."? No, they're going to be annoyed. Then when they see you put in on twitter? Yea, way the hell beyond annoyed. Most executives have pretty big egos for better or worse.

    I've seen this kind of stuff in cubicle world. Someone will make a "joke" by covering someone else's name plate with some similar snide thing. I've seen HR have to get involved as retaliations come in. Morale goes down the shitter as the whole group is affected by the dysfunctional relationship.

    It's a lot to read into a simple picture and there's a good chance it's not going that route, but it's something I've seen before (granted, not at the executive level, but I'm not an executive) so it bothers me. It smacks of "I know you are, but what am I?" levels of maturity.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    JRP3
    I hope people at Tesla have a better sense of humor than that.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    ckessel
    Me too, but human nature being what it is, sense of humor goes out the window when you're already upset with someone. The time to crack a joke at someone's expense is NOT when you're already in conflict.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    extesla
    Rawlinson will be missed for his technical knowledge and drive. He will not be missed for his dictatorial ways and his petulance. Sampson was just a bag carrier for Rawlinson and will not be missed on any level.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    JRP3
    So you know these two individuals?
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    AnOutsider
    I think first the stock market made a bigger deal of this than it was, and now it's happening here. I see nothing malicious in that tweet, perhaps I'm just not of that mindset. I also see nothing in the herding cats video he posted either. I think we might have too much time on our hands here.

    In all of this, why hasn't anyone speculated about the other guy leaving? Tesla gave a reason for Rawlinson's departure (whether you believe it or not), but not the other guy? If anything, wouldn't that be something more to grasp onto? Personally, I bet he just wasn't important enough for tesla to feel they had to head off any questions like this, but still, if you're going to speculate, there's more to work with there.


    Your name and demeanor now makes more sense.
    �
  • Jan 14, 2012
    extesla
    Sampson worked as Rawlinson's assistant at Corus. Sampson will follow Rawlinson. Aide de camp springs to mind. Or batman. Or valet.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    WhiteKnight
    So were you previously employed by Tesla (in the engineering department perhaps)? Is that why you call yourself ex-tesla?

    I'm asking because it would lend a lot of credibility to what you've posted about Rawlinson and Sampson.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    ckessel
    There's probably only so much he could say depending on his previous position.

    It does go a long way to explaining both leaving at once in a better light. It's not uncommon for one person to follow another in all sorts of industries. That's far better than two people having independently gotten pissed off/burned out/whatever.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Tommy
    I remember a TV special about the Ford Co and their turnaround: A new CEO (Alan Mulally) was brought in and quickly noticed that one of their car launches was hopelessly behind schedule; however at the board meeting all departments working on the car stated that they were meeting their schedules and had no problems to report. Knowing this couldn't be the case, Mually encouraged the department heads to report any problems. At the next meeting, one brave soul reported they were having a problem and wouldn't be able to meet schedule. Mulally clapped his hands in approval. The next meeting more department heads reported problems knowing now that repercussions weren't going to happen and after a short time the problems were all known and thus began the turnaround of Ford.

    I think DENIAL that anything is amiss is a common enemy in the manufacturing world; Elon is just using humor to label the room in the manner he did to serve as a reminder of where DENIAL in a company begins. Although it may be obvious to us on the outside that denying a problem exists does a disservice to a company; it seems that many department heads, executives, etc. still do it.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    vfx
    As I said, When we chatted with Peter at the LA Rally last summer he was well into the Model X design (and raving about it's potential).

    I also noted his wife was excited for him but not excited in general.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    vfx
    In a conference room who is doing the denial? Is it Elon who is in denial that schedules can't be met or is it the people who work for him that are in denial that they have the abilities to get things done on time?


    Or is it just a place where people (at the top or bottom) ask for more time/money/resources and are simply denied?
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Norbert
    Or maybe they were missing rain, fish & chips...
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    Tommy
    Elon's tweet states that it is an executive conference room. On one hand I can see where the label infers this is the room where things are turned down as you suggest; however I can also see where the label refers to the situation Ford faced as I outlined in my post: that management often deny that problems exist. There may be another meanings to the label, such as the old DENALI label (which means "The great one") was a throwback to GM's NUMMI plant and Elon thought that was a very pompous label for the room and mixed up the order of the letters to get DENIAL. I don't see anything nefarious, mean spirited or spiteful.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    JRP3
    I find this quote from Elon's "Mahalo" interview somewhat revealing:
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    extesla
    Peter Rawlinson is a bachelor. An only child with a farmhouse in England.
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  • Jan 14, 2012
    smorgasbord
    A 10 month old interview with Jerome Guillen, who's now taking Rawlinson's place (Rawlinson can be seen in an early shot).
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  • Jan 15, 2012
    jbherman
    Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere:


    Tesla Motors Announces Date for Company Update Conference Call



    PALO ALTO, CA -- (MARKET WIRE) -- 01/15/12 -- Tesla Motors, Inc. (NASDAQ: TSLA) announced today that it will host a conference call to provide a Company Update, including a discussion of recent personnel changes. The call will be held before market hours on Tuesday, January 17, 2012, at 5:00am Pacific Time (8:00am Eastern Time). The Company Update will include commentary from members of the senior management team, and be followed by a Question & Answer period.

    What: Tesla Motors, Inc. Company Update and Question & Answer Conference Call
    When: January 17, 2012
    Time: 5:00am Pacific Time / 8:00am Eastern Time
    Webcast: Tesla - Investors Overview (live and replay)
    Live Call: (877) 312-5519 / (760) 666-3771 (International)

    Approximately two hours after the call, a digital recording of the call will be available for a period of two weeks. To access the recording, please dial in to one of the following numbers using the conference ID shown.

    Replay Dial In #: (855) 859-2056 Conference ID: 43839977
    International Replay Dial In #: (404) 537-3406 Conference ID: 43839977

    The webcast will also be archived on the Company's website for a period of one year following the date of the call.

    About Tesla Motors

    Tesla's goal is to accelerate the world's transition to electric mobility with a full range of increasingly affordable electric cars. Palo Alto, California-based Tesla designs and manufactures EVs and EV powertrain components. Tesla has delivered more than 2,000 Roadsters, the world's first electric sports car, to customers world-wide. Model S, the first premium sedan to be built from the ground up as an electric vehicle, goes on the market in mid-2012.

    For additional information, please visit Tesla - Investors Overview.

    Add to Digg Bookmark with del.icio.us Add to Newsvine

    Source: Tesla Motors, Inc.
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  • Jan 15, 2012
    Doug_G
    Look at the ludicrous graph printed with this article:

    Tesla stock plunges 20% following exec departure - Jan. 13, 2012

    attachment.php?attachmentid=3883&d=1326651780.png

    Talk about artificial - makes it look like the stock has been staying flat over time, then plummets off a cliff. But look at the scales! 10 am to 4 pm, $28 to $22. Talk about damned lies and statistics!
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  • Jan 15, 2012
    Mycroft
    If it bleeds, it leads.
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  • Jan 15, 2012
    zack
    Yawn.
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  • Jan 15, 2012
    vfx
    eeek!

    So who was she? :)
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  • Jan 16, 2012
    smorgasbord
    Just looked up Nick Samson on LinkedIn. His status is "Currently Seeking New Opportunities."

    So, it would seem that the reasons for Rawlinson leaving are different than for Samson. Maybe.
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  • Jan 17, 2012
    JRP3
    Not necessarily, they just may now be going in different directions after leaving for the same reasons. It seems as if they were hired as a team, not surprising that they left as a team.
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  • Jan 17, 2012
    slavi
    Well, I liked the conference call so far. Put a few grand more in the stock before it shoots back up to the original levels. Here's to a successful Model X launch. Wish I bought more on friday...
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  • Jan 17, 2012
    JRod0802
    Good call. It was confirmed in the conference call that Rawlinson resigned, and about a week later Elon asked for Samson's resignation because he wasn't a good fit for the company.
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  • Jan 17, 2012
    AnOutsider
    Yup, sounds like extesla had it right about Sampson.
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  • Jan 17, 2012
    JRP3
    Actually they both left for the same reason: Rawlinson wanted to leave :wink:
    �
  • Apr 21, 2012
    gg_got_a_tesla
  • Apr 24, 2012
    doug
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