Chủ Nhật, 20 tháng 11, 2016

The M3 terrifies BMW part 6

  • Aug 21, 2016
    ohmman
    What I meant was for a layperson with a reservation. I don't really count those Tesla/SpaceX vehicles as part of the standard priority queue. I am glad you pointed it out, though, and completely agree with your other comments.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Model 3
    Yes, I left that question open. We see now that they have not yet started to deliver any 5 seats Model X (as far as I know?), and that is soon a year.
    For the Model S it was about 9 month to the 40 versions was delivered?

    But everything indicate that they will have a quicker ramp this time, so I do not think it will take that long. But it may well take 6 month - but I hope not :)
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Model 3
    Yes, and that is why I do not believe that there is some options that is "not ready" to be produced when we normal customers can order our cars, as it was for Model S+X. But don't forget that Tesla has employees in all the markets it is in, so eg. the employees here in Europa - or in Asia/Oceania - may well have to wait quite a bit anyway.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    S?XY P100D
    I think delivery based on region then first-come-first-served basis sounds fair. Sending you up the queue based on your selected options is elitist IMO, which makes sense for Model S/X/Roadster but not so much for the mass market 3.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Red Sage
    Well, when it comes to 'the majority of Americans', I think that they are most concerned with whether or not they can 'make the payments'. I believe that the 'independent franchised dealerships' have for decades relied upon Americans buying on impulse, with emotion, without study or comparison. I do believe that has changed somewhat over the past 25 years, as more and more people have had greater access to information, especially through the internet. But for now, Tesla Motors does not have to offer something for 'the majority' at all. Within the next five years most of their Customers will be those who do yhe deep research and comparisons, run spreadsheets to calculate relative residual value and cost of ownership. And those folks may well like to have a viable competitor with a Chevrolet, Buick, or Cadillac emblem to plug into their charts. Strange that whenever any other automobile manufacturer creates something new and unique that sells over 100,000 units per year -- it doesn't take anywhere near 11 years for everyone else to copy it, and have similar sales in short order.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    ecarfan
    Okay, understood, thanks. I consider the Tesla/SpaceX employee reservations as part of the overall priority queue. We can't neglect them, as there are likely thousands of them.

    There are a lot of unknowns at this point as to exactly how Tesla is going to prioritize the first year or so of Model 3 deliveries. All we know are the broad parameters that Tesla laid down: Tesla/SpaceX employees first (though unclear if that means worldwide or just US and then international later at some point), then current Tesla owners with a priority of West Coast US first, then East Coast, then...?, then non-Tesla owners (prioritized based on geography, or not?). Pretty sure right hand drive country reservation holders will be last even if they are employees or current Tesla owners. But I could be wrong...
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Model 3
    I could agree with you here, but remember that when they start to produce the Model 3 they will have spend "a few" buckets of money on it, and is in a hurry to get the investment back as fast as possible - at least a big bite of it. So they can't afford to be "fair" here. And as they have told us that this is what they will do - I do believe them. For my self I could hope it was not the case... But I'm ok with it as they told us so before I put in my money.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    S?XY P100D
    Even if the gross margin is expected to be 25% for the Model 3?
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    JeffK
    Did we ever find a source that outright said highly optioned models will come first or was that always speculation based on past behavior? I remember reading it in an article awhile back and they didn't cite a source either.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Model 3
    Even if that is true - yes. But who expect this and why? Is it 25% on the base car or base car + options or on the options? Any sources on this expectation?

    I have long expected the margin to be much lower on the base Gen-III car (but maybe this on the options...).
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Cloxxki
    As GF1 may still be ramping up cell production, it could make sense to first produce all the minimum range vehicles. While not highest margin per say, it would allow quick throoughput of the more simple cars. Making more cars with the amount of 2170 cells available. Also this would stress their motor/controller production half compared to the pricier D models.
    For employees they could make the D's and big pack ones first to not let them suffer. But they could also openly state that the big packs will be produced later. Employees understand the struggle better.
    Limited cell supply initially could be another reason to not offer a software range opgrade on the entry level car. Why give away cells for free when the next cars are waiting behind the cell production bottleneck?
    Pure speculation. But Tesla created a few luxury problems for themselves.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Model 3
    If I remember correct this is from a Elon twit that said that deliveries will (also) be prioritized based on options. No, he did not say (as I remember) that the more expensive is prioritized first, but that is what at least I read into it.

    Edit: updated as I somehow managed to quote myself :p
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    JeffK
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Model 3
    You got some points here - but on the other hand they are expected to get more margins on the options, and some options is expected to be only for the biggest battery (like "P" and "Ludicrous"). And delivering the highest priced options first is also an incentive to get a more optioned car then you was planing on - if you want the car as soon as possible.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Model 3
  • Aug 21, 2016
    MassModel3
    I'm sorry, I'm obviously complete at fault here. I mistakenly gave you far too much credit in your ability to follow what was said. So let me break it down for you....

    You chose to argue the definition of "average" with several members of this forum. Yes, that became a hot point for you for some reason, but when you apparently took a short break form the forums, everybody else moved on. Then you returned and for some reason decided you needed to argue the definition of "average" some more.

    Since you decided to bring up an otherwise forgotten subject, I said that YOU, not Elon Musk, are beating a dead horse. Please show me where I mentioned him doing so. So back to you and the dead horse...

    Now here's where you just decide to start forgetting what was actually said and you begin making up your own version of the facts. I guess this is what people do when they don't have a good defense. It's called deflection. Look it up...

    And as we've already noted in this thread, and as some have commented, your version of the facts and the actual FACTS don't always match up.

    You need to keep up. Nobody called Elon Musk a dead horse. Well, nobody except you. Perhaps you're the "someone" you were referring to. Seems an odd way of referring to yourself, but do what you gotta do.

    Again, you've demonstrated that if the facts don't support your argument, you're going to make up your own. But really, at least come close to reality.

    You insist on telling everyone that I said something even though you're the one who said it.

    One other thing you might not know is that Elon Musk released his patents long ago. Tesla doesn't want to be the only company that can build a decent electric car, but for some reason they're the only ones who can right now. We welcome the competition. Competition is great for consumers.

    And as I'v previously noted in this thread, we certainly don't fear a hybrid with 14 miles electric. I wish BMW would make something competitive, but for some reason they aren't.

    Seriously... I'm terrorized by BMW? You wish! No really, it sound like you wish it were so. But alas..... NOT!
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    ecarfan
    I think that was speculation based on Tesla history, but if someone has a direct quote about it I would like to see it.

    Here is some more general "official" Tesla information on delivery order, at Reserving your Model 3

    QUOTE: "In order to be as fair as possible, there will be a different queue for each region. And as a thank you to our current owners, existing customers will get priority in each region. Model 3 production is scheduled to begin in late 2017. When production begins, we will begin deliveries in North America starting on the West Coast, moving east. As we continue to ramp production, we will begin deliveries in Europe, APAC and right-hand drive markets. It is not possible to ship to all regions simultaneously because regulators in each part of the world have slightly different production requirements. Staggering deliveries in this way also allows us to provide the best possible customer experience."
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Model 3
    Seems like my memory has failed me here:
    Tesla Model 3 Debuts March 31st, Higher Options Cars Made First
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    S?XY P100D
    Time to save up for options then. :cool:
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Cloxxki
    Excellent digging.
    I suppose if car production is still very much ramping up, cell production may stand a great chance (being less complex) to well keep up with cars, and at the same time delivery all the Power Walls/Packs and probably even a good share of Model S/X demand.
    Should cells be the bottle neck through a period, base models could be better to prioritize, get them out, show results to the shareholders and reservers.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I didn't think so many people would buy a base model MS 60, but they are. I'm really not sure why they are doing that.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I'm hoping that pickup location will be factored in.

    I live in Chicago and I am picking up a fully option M? in Fremont at the factory. No shipping for Tesla. I called Tesla about this and they indicated that Once production starts that I should call Fremont and get assigned a reservation assistant/counselor and I will become a California delivery.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    That's what confused me so much in this forum when folks made what I called "knee jerked" decisions to buy a MS as their interim car until the m3 came out. They can just make a decision to buy a $62K car? That's a huge payment that if they saved up will be a nice down payment on the M3.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    gregd
    I'm thinking we should stop feeding the troll...
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    SmartElectric
    For some, the best option is to wait for the Model 3. However, while I was waiting I took a Tesla test drive in late 2014, which was an expensive test drive! From that moment on I was spending an hour a day scouring used Tesla's online, and it was only 6 months later that we bought a CPO S85 mid-2015. We cannot imagine having waited 3+ years to get into a Tesla.

    There is nothing "base" about a car that goes as fast, drives as smoothly and has so much tech. The new 60 is a very compelling car, and I have (briefly) considered trading in our 85 for a new 60 due to all the improvements made since 2013.

    We have a "classic S85", and LOVE IT, even if it originally came without all the new things added to the Model S since 2013.

    We may even keep our S85 when our Model 3 arrives, I cannot imagine selling our Tesla, but maybe that's because we don't yet know how great the 3 will be in comparison to the S.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    dsvick
    There is also a mythical quote from, supposedly, sometime in April where he says, due to the number of reservations, they won't be doing the highly optioned ones first. I don't know of anyone who has ever seen it though and if it did exist, it might have since been deleted.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    dsvick
    At best I see this saving you a few weeks. It might get your delivery moved up relative to everyone else who configures with you, but you will still configure based on date of reservation and the region your address is in since they wont know your pickup location until you configure.
    �
  • Aug 21, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I'm going to follow instructions of Freemont. Freemont said that as soon as you see that configurations are being made......call.
    That's what I'm going to do.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Model 3
    ... and that is the reason I do not take the chance to testdrive a Model S before there will be Model 3's to test drive ;)


    I also have heard the rumor, but not seen a credible source. But yes, the number of reservations and the accelerated ramp up may be a reason for Tesla to drop this, but until I see a credible source I rather let that be a pleasant surprise when the time come if it is true :)
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    MassModel3
    My wife and I were discussing a new 60 just the other day in lieu of one of the Model 3 reservations we have down (when Tesla emailed out about new lease options). The compelling thing about the new 60 compared to our existing 60 is all the new features built into the base model, like the full tech package suite, supercharging, and active safety features. And by going with a 60, which we've already determined suits our needs, there's no real need to spend more on a larger battery. However, since a battery upgrade is available with the flip of a switch, same with autopilot, we'd always have the option to upgrade if we really wanted to.

    In the end, we decided to wait for the 3 (the $7K down payment for the lease actually decided it for us), but a base 60 is a huge step up for most ICE drivers, and more battery then they'll need under normal circumstances -- especially with supercharging.

    Back in the early Model S days, battery upgrades were near impossible to get, and there's posts about people paying $20K+ to upgrade from a 60 to an 85 after painful run-arounds with Tesla. Knowing there's an easy upgrade is nice by comparison.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    SpiceWare
    Same here :)
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Mark C
    I guess I'll have to admire your will power. I sat in a Tesla Model S once when I stopped in at a National Drive Electric event. I've never been in one that was moving under its own power, much less driven one.

    The wife and I plan to drive one when we pass through the Atlanta area in November. I just can't resist. Wait, no that's not correct. I can hardly wait! That's more like it!
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    MassModel3
    Be careful if you do decide to test drive an S or X. I'd never driven electric, so I just wanted myself and my wife to experience electric driving (to see if it lived up to all the hype). 10 days later we were buying a CPO.

    Some things can't be helped. :rolleyes:
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    Well... Idunno about being banned exactly... Didn't they try that during Prohibition?
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    THIS.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    Sweet Transsexual from Transylvania.jpg
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    I believe it was in reply/response to those who were saying it was premature to count the nearly 400,000 Reservations as 'money in the bank', thus referring to them as quantity times $35,000 equals such-n-such billions of buckadollars. I think Elon was saying that if you go by the projected ASP of $42,000 per car, the amount they had stated was actually rather conservative, even when you consider a certain percentage of Reservation holders might drop out and not complete the purchase.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    Setting a priority does not equate to a 'delay'. If I walk into a cafe alone and order scrambled eggs, toast, and coffee... I will not complain when a party of 12 receives some, or all, of their food before I get mine. If I am at the grocery store and pick the line where there is only one person instead of the line with eight... And it turns out that twelve people pass through the longer line before the one person I am behind manages to complete their purchase, I have no one to blame or complain to. It is a matter of perception. You pays your money, you takes your chances.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    I think it will be based upon more the effective ease of manufacturing due to availability of materials than for the dollar value of the vehicle as a whole -- so not elitist so much as prioritized for immediate assembly. If 16 cars before yours, and 18 cars after yours all want a tan interior, and you chose black, your car may be grouped to be assembled with other cars with a black interior. If you ordered the base car, with no options except for staggered wheels with Performance tires, your car might be built ahead of someone else's -- whose car was fully loaded, except for declining staggered wheels with Performance tires.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    Years ago, Elon Musk stated he expected that something between 10% and 15% would be a good margin target for Generation III vehicles. He may have noted at the time that Lexus has a 14% margin overall. I typically guess that the margin will be around 12% for the base Tesla Model ? car, and maybe up to 22% for a fully loaded version.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    I'm pretty sure that Elon said 'highly optioned' would be among the priorities. He may have said so at the Model ? Reveal Part I, or it may have been something on twitter.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    I would not worry about this being an issue. Battery packs will be manufactured well ahead of time. I would expect that several thousand will be on hand at Fremont well before October 1, 2017.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    I think they are doing it precisely because of the 'bonus' of being able to use all 60 kWh if they like, with a 15 kWh reserve for anti-bricking. Combined with Supercharger access at no additional charge and the ability to unlock more range at a later date, it is a better deal all around than four years ago. And vastly better than unlocking a Model S 40 might have been.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    That may be true, however I was thinking in terms of car payments. One could have a very nice down payment on the M3 instead of MS payments. Oh well..... to each his own.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    3Victoria
    Why? Car now, rebate, superchargers, safe 100% charges, OTA upgrade to 75 if desired, and all the other benefits now :) What's not to like?
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Car payment.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    Red Sage
    I was looking for something else, and came across this on my way...

    �Electric cars have many advantages over conventional vehicles � for example, they have a �full tank� every morning, because they can be charged quickly and easily at home using the standard charging cable supplied.� -- BMW i 360�

    ?
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    EaglesPDX
    I think I was clear that it was Elon Musk who said the average price for a T3 will be $42,000.

    QUOTE="MassModel3, post: 1689423, member: 27679"]I'm terrorized by BMW? [/QUOTE]

    It would explain the wild exaggerated comments about the BMW330e.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    S'toon
    It would explain the wild exaggerated comments about the BMW330e.[/QUOTE]
    The only "wild exaggerated comments about the BMW330e" I've seen have been yours. How come you keep calling it the T3?
    �
  • Aug 22, 2016
    ohmman
    q.jpg
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    dsvick
    This happens to me all the time, usually it is because I manage to get behind the one person who, inexplicably, has never seen or used the self checkout lane at the store. :(
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    Krugerrand
    I suspect it's because as a BMW fan he doesn't want to call the Model 3 M3 since BMW already has an 'M3'.
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    dsvick
    Or, he's simply a troll and doing it because he knows it bothers some people.
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    S'toon
  • Aug 23, 2016
    S'toon
    Why should I give the store the benefit of my free labour?
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    MassModel3
    What Elon Musk said was never in question. Try to keep up! The dead horse was YOU bringing up the long dead discussion of what "average" means.
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    dsvick
    That's fine - you won't be the person that gets in front of me then. It's the people who get in the line, spend 2 minutes getting out their discount card to scan, then start scanning each item, unfortunately scanning an item involves...
    1. picking it out of the cart
    2. rotating it to find the bar code
    3. re-rotating it so that the barcode is facing down
    4. waving it in the general direction of the scanner
    5. realizing that they are too far away from the scanner
    6. refinding the bar code again (I assume this is in case it moved while they were scanning it the first time)
    7. waving it in front of the scanner again until it beeps
    8. holding the item in their hand while they watch the screen to make sure that the item was correctly scanned
    9. finally, placing the item on the belt

    Repeat the above for each item ....
    For even more fuin watch them when they have a produce item where they have to enter the product code.

    Then there is whole coupon scanning, self bagging, and paying (god forbid they have cash).
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    ohmman
    I choose the self-checkout because I find it's generally faster. I also like that they typically have one queue for four "registers" so there's a FIFO aspect that's more fair than the traditional grocery store queueing. That said, I did make a mistake the other day by bringing beer into the self-checkout line, so I wound up being the guy you're talking about. :oops:
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    MassModel3
    Ah, you forgot about the guy who has a coupon that won't scan or needs to be manually entered. Then the line just stops until the guy (who has the deer-in-the-headlights "what am I gonna do now" look on his face) flags down a clerk who's trying to ring customers through a typical checkout. Then everyone just waits until someone is eventually called over from the service desk to help.

    Yeah, love self checkout. :confused: Sometimes.
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    CuriousG
    His biggest fear would be that M3 will stick and become more mainstream than current BMW M3.
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    dsvick
    Yes, it normally is much faster, which is why I think it hurts so much those rare times when it isn't. I've been the beer guy too

    Of the guy that has the one thing they keep scanning and putting on the belt and the weight is off so it keeps sending it back
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    ccutrer
    Or the guy with kids, where the kids either keep pressing on the belt, or removing the item immediately after you place it there. Either way, it throws off the tempo of scan, wait for ridiculously underpowered computer to beep, bag (while you're waiting, if the tempo is right), wait for ridiculously underpowered computer to register the item on the belt, repeat.
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    MassModel3
    At some point, I expect someone to tell us we're all wrong and to start arguing about the "average" self-checkout line.

    Or maybe we're all just "terrified" of cashiers. :p
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    EaglesPDX
    Apparently it was since someone didn't realize Musk was talking about average purchase price of T3

    I pointed out someone confused median price with average price, a few of the torch and pitchfork crowd, terrorized by the BMW330e than ran off shouting and gesticulating about it.
    �
  • Aug 23, 2016
    Off Shore
    I have to tell you that if you and others did, this thread would make a lot more sense to those of us who already have.
    �
  • Aug 24, 2016
    AustinPowers
    By the way: @Mods: could you please close this thread?
    �
  • Aug 25, 2016
    Garlan Garner
  • Aug 26, 2016
    Jersey Shore Tom
    Don't forget, when the production ramp is completed, Tesla will be building > 7,500 Model 3s a week. Several thousand battery packs on hand will be pretty close to "just in time" not a big cushion.
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    Jersey Shore Tom
    Winner, winner chicken dinner. :)

    Please don't feed the troll.

    Now that he is on ignore, I sometimes have trouble figuring out people's responses.

    Thanks.
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I absolutely agree. I hope Tesla can/have produce 7,500 battery "Packs" per week.

    They have given their vendors a production date of July 1'st next year. I hope they are ready with their own 2170 battery packs. God knows they have enough room to produce them.
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    purplewalt
    When we toured the Gigafactory, one of the tour leaders said something to the effect that when it is fully operational, it will be able to manufacture//produce enough batteries for a Model 3 every three minutes.
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I wonder when "fully operational" is. 3 months from now? 3 years from now?
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    purplewalt
    They currently have multiple crews outside digging and pouring piers and building new sections of the building 24 hours a day.
    Seven days a week.

    They have roughly 14% of the building frame, roof, walls and interior built/finished, and they are now installing equipment, racks, robots, etc. inside.
    s
    So multiply the size of the building by SEVEN, and it will be completed.

    As far as the time-frame for completion of the building, certainly a lot longer than three months.
    I think the shock of the number of reservations for the Model 3 blew Tesla Motors away, and they are responding the most expedient way that they physically and fiscally can.

    Big buildings do not get built overnight.
    HUGE Buildings take even longer to build.
    And then all the equipment has to be purchased, installed and orchestrated to operate correctly.
    By BOTH Tesla and Panasonic.

    The two (parallel) paths of the Gigafactory and Model 3 need to converge so that BOTH ventures can be fully successful.

    Without the need for the colossal quantities of batteries (for Model 3 initially and then eventually the Model S and Model X along with Power Wall and Power Pack), the Gigafactory makes no sense.
    Without the source for leading-edge-technology lower-cost batteries, the Model 3 makes no sense.
    And since THIS Gigafactory is NOT on the other side of the Pacific, only a train-ride over the mountains to Fremont delivers the batteries.

    The goal is for the first 21-70 batteries to be manufactured//produced in the Gigafactory by the end of 2016, if not sooner.
    So very shortly, great things will start happening out by Clark, just West of Reno.
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    CuriousG
    Is this just the 2170 cells? Or are you talking about putting them all in modules then complete a full pack in 3 minutes?
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    JeffK
    I'd assume by the quote it meant literally enough cells for a model 3 battery within 3 minutes... not a full battery assembly. There's no way to measure that except with an average, whereas you could measure the cells per minute fairly accurately.
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    Jersey Shore Tom
    That sounds way too slow. Even if you assume the factory is running 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, that is only enough for 175,200 cars a year. 20 cars per hour X 24 hours a day X 365 days a year.
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    22522
    30 seconds
    �
  • Aug 26, 2016
    S?XY P100D
    Just build another gigafactory. Problem solved. ;)
    �
  • Aug 27, 2016
    Red Sage
    Yeah. I posted elsewhere...
    I expect that they will need several thousand battery packs on hand well before they begin building cars. They will probably start off at a rate of around 4,000 vehicles per week. Then ramp up as quickly as possible to 8,000 per week. So, it would be very good to have perhaps three months' worth of battery packs on hand, in the proportion of expected distribution. How quickly battery packs can be produced at Sparks and delivered to Fremont may well determine how fast the cars can be built. I think that perhaps only 20% to 30% of cars will have the highest capacity battery pack, if that is only paired with the Performance trim as I hope.?
    �
  • Aug 27, 2016
    Model 3
    They may have been talking about *that production line* - not the total of the GF-I?
    �
  • Aug 27, 2016
    Topher
    Same thing. It isn't producing the 6000ish cells in three minutes (since among other things they need to age). It is building 6000ish cells EVERY three minutes. Which means it has to produce a full pack every three minutes as well, or batteries will just stack up in the factory.

    Thank you kindly.
    �
  • Aug 27, 2016
    Pollux
    Hi, @EaglesPDX,

    I'm afraid I'm numbered among those who think that your "terrified Teslarati" thesis has appeal only as alliteration and lacks any real-world validity. I haven't engaged this thread because I haven't seen any reason to do so. The proponents whose view I share are advocating it reasonably and rigorously. I doubt that you are amenable to changing your mind on this issue. So shut-my-mouth-and-call-me-quiet. :)

    But...

    You have succinctly articulated a point that I both disagree with and have ample and frustrating anecdotal experience dealing with. The Environmentarati as I shall call them -- those people who work in the environmental movement, whether for Greenpeace or the Sierra Club or Clean Water or even Citizens' Climate Lobby and so on and so forth -- a LOT of those people have deep problems accepting Tesla and its products. Some of them think that the products are inextricably linked to rich people, and view any accumulation of wealth as a Bad Thing. Some of them think that we should only ride bicycles. Some of them believe that operating a Tesla causes more GHGs to be generated than operating a Prius. (Really.) I am surprised every day just how many of these people exist and how much of an impediment they can be to the general electrification of transport. And many of these Environmentarati are not shy about projecting opprobrium onto those who have the temerity to, say, show up to an environmental meeting driving a Tesla.

    I will grant that (1) my data are anecdotal and (2) I am painting with a very broad brush, but at the end of the day your contention that driving a Tesla confers status amongst the Environmentarati -- I would also call them "those who are big on reducing GHG, the more sustainable one's lifestyle, net zero home and car" -- is Full of Stuff. :) I wish you were right.

    Alan
    �
  • Aug 27, 2016
    SageBrush
    You are also only focusing on the complaints.

    As a non-carrying Environmentat, my opinion about owning an eV comes down to source energy. However, should we ever meet at a meeting, I assure you that your car will be greeted with a smile.
    �
  • Aug 27, 2016
    Pollux
    Oh, I agree, I speak from my own personal frustration and I also am overgeneralizing. If I offended you, such was not my intent, and I apologize!

    Alan
    �
  • Aug 29, 2016
    CuriousG
    Maybe when BMW produces something like this Tesla will raise an eyebrow.



    I don't know if the microphones are extra sensitive or the car needs some serious noise dampening material. Tesla take notice at all the customization available and information available to customers without having to be a service technician. Interesting to note is the two speed gearbox in the rear wheels. Tesla abandoned that concept when it kept breaking. That poor car going through the gravel and you can hear all the rocks hitting it.
    �
  • Aug 29, 2016
    Jayc
    Maybe a bit more 'observability' might not do much harm for a Tesla but 'controllability' by way of user adjustments to drivetrain parameters such as torque distribution between front and back - No thanks. There are things you can have in a proof of concept that you just don't allow in a production car. What's the deal with mechanical gears anyway? Seems like unnecessary complication to me.
    �
  • Aug 29, 2016
    Saghost
    Pretty sure you're hearing the straight cut gears - more efficient, and smaller for the same load levels, but much louder than spiral cut sets. When Saleen made their "416" model S version, they gave it straight cut gears, and the EV1 had them.

    Without a transmission redesign, they won't be getting rid of most of that noise - and considering their target market, I doubt they want to. This is the roaring V-12 crowd, so turbine whine from the gears and motors is the best roar they can get.

    Yeah, I liked that transmission part. "Two speed, dual clutch gearbox" - meaning it has two sets of fixed gears that are permanently engaged and always spinning, and can clutch either one to the motor. As long as the clutches hold up, it should be reliable - there's not much else to break.

    I think I read they zero the torque from the rear motors during the shift? If so, they're probably using dog clutches, which means a failure would just leave you stuck in one gear unless you somehow failed both clutches open or closed. You get a handy parking brake by closing both clutches, too...
    �
  • Aug 29, 2016
    CuriousG
    I'd like to know if the Rimac Concept One browser and media center is just as bad.
    �
  • Aug 29, 2016
    Red Sage
    It's a good video, but really? It is KARMA (formerly FISKER) that really needs to pay close attention to this. Their interface is absolutely HORRID. But yes, if BMW were to transform the i8 into a proper fully electric Supercar, it would put a whole lot of feathers in their cap.
    �
  • Aug 29, 2016
    3Victoria
    @Model 3 --- Yes, agree. They will continue adding parallel battery production lines to the GF as needed, and expand the building as they go.
    �
    • Người đăng: vào lúc

    Không có nhận xét nào:

    Đăng nhận xét

    Đăng ký: Đăng Nhận xét (Atom)