Jan 9, 2013
Robert.Boston It buys you the 12-month/12,000 mile inspection, plus any and all parts and labor to address warranty items and routine maintenance, except tires.�
Jan 9, 2013
Al Sherman Doesn't that include swapping out for snows once a year and the needed TPMS reset?�
Jan 9, 2013
dsm363 They could do that during your annual service but I don't know if they've decided how they want to handle winter tire swaps yet.�
Jan 9, 2013
Carlton Bale The problem is that Tesla is currently in violation of federal Service Information Regulations that require manuals, training, and tools be made available to any third-party service provider, and at a cost inline with what the certified dealer network pays. At this point, it's not even clear if these even exist, and they certainly aren't available to third parties. If Tesla were behaving like every other car company, they would publish specific time-based and mileage-based maintenance guidelines. The customer would then be able to choose any service provider to perform this work. The warranty would only become void if improper maintenance somehow caused a failure that would not have otherwise occurred. It would not, for example, void the warranty for a failed seat belt because of improper maintenance of the battery coolant (unless that somehow directly caused the seat belt to fail.)
There will not be a third-party service industry until Tesla makes available the information to facilitate its creation. Without an exemption, they are in violation of SIR for not doing so.�
Jan 9, 2013
Robert.Boston @Carlton Bale: The only such federal regulations I'm familiar with are those diagnostics and manuals related to emissions-control systems, pursuant to 48 U.S.C. 7401-7467-09. This section clearly does not apply to Tesla, as there are no emissions and hence no emissions-control systems. "As currently implemented, car companies are required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to make all emissions-related information available over Web sites that are accessible to the independent vehicle repair shops. Car companies are also required to make their emissions-related diagnostic tools available to the aftermarket."
Massachusetts is the only state that has passed right-to-repair legislation, but here again, this won't apply because even that law only requires the OEM to provide third party access to materials on the same basis as it provides to its franchise dealerships. Because Tesla has no franchise dealers, that law does not apply.
Could you point to the particular law or regulation you're citing, please?�
Jan 9, 2013
David_Cary Well I'd like a little more detail.
From what it sounds like, they will do brake fluid changes every couple of years, a wiper blade or two and then a bunch of inspections. Nothing to justify the cost. Warranty items are already covered. An EV should not need "routine maintenance" and is one of the significant advantages. Heck most modern cars don't need routine maintenance other than a few fluid changes at long intervals. Nothing that $200 a year shouldn't cover.
Seems to me that not itemizing what they do makes it pretty hard to have an alternative which is a violation of the spirit of the law (at least).
Does the battery warranty have stricter requirements in CARB states?�
Jan 9, 2013
joshuaeven Isn't there some post somewhere that states the annual inspections are basically a tear-down and thorough eval of the entire car, and that Tesla is LOSING money on these inspections?�
Jan 9, 2013
dsm363 Don't think so. The Model S was designed to require less work on the inspection I believe. They likely want to see the car so often to find any long term flaws sooner than later.�
Jan 9, 2013
stopcrazypp I think Robert is correct, that law only applies to cars with emissions equipment (which EVs don't have).
But I agree Tesla should at least have a service/maintenance schedule available.�
Jan 10, 2013
Carlton Bale I guess I'm not clear what applies to EVs and what does not. It seems there would be no need for inclusion of an OBD port either, but I don't believe that is the case.�
Jan 10, 2013
Doug_G There is an ODB port on the Model S. It's hidden behind the cubby under the touchscreen. The Roadster also has one under the dashboard in front of the passenger seat; it's usually really tucked in there and can be hard to find the first time.�
Jan 10, 2013
TXjak Since Tesla recommends tire rotation every 6000 miles, you could probably get them to do it in conjunction with a rotation which is covered, along with alignment, if needed, and balancing presumably.�
Jan 10, 2013
FlasherZ The OBD port (the white connector) is not a standard OBD-II interface; it's Tesla's custom interface. Is there another, standard OBD-II port? I have a question in to service about OBD-II, because insurance reducers like Progressive's Snapshot and State Farm's program use OBD-II to collect data.�
Jan 10, 2013
W.Petefish The white connector is used for service diagnostics only.
There is another obd port closer to the driver's side door under the dash.
Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk�
Jan 10, 2013
FlasherZ I looked all over for it where it's supposed to be. Have a picture of where it is in your car?�
Jan 10, 2013
Al Sherman It would probably have to be INSTEAD of a rotation, if I were putting on a different set of wheels and tires?�
Jan 10, 2013
strider David, no disrespect but we've beat this horse to death (in this very thread). Please go back and read the rest of the thread. May have voiced your exact concern. There has been no new info out of Tesla that I am aware of. My guess is that nothing will happen until next Fall when cars come due for their first services and we'll see what happens.�
Jan 10, 2013
TXjak It's just more wheels and tires in the mix. ;-) But you might want to make a note of which wheels came from where, when you bring them back to be put back on.�
Jan 10, 2013
stopcrazypp The ODB requirement applies to all cars as part of 40 CFR 86.1806-01 On-board diagnostics:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/86.1806-01
The service information regulation only applies to "emissions related" diagnosis and repairs (and since the Tesla has no emissions, it doesn't apply to it) as part of 42 USC 7521(m)(5) Information availability:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/7521
Here's EPA's rule-making that says essentially the same (everything is prefixed with "emissions-related"):
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/im/vehserv/f03003.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-AIR/1995/August/Day-09/pr-913.html�
Jan 11, 2013
raptorweb if you still haven't found it i can try to get a picture of it tonight ... it is pretty much right where W.Petefish says on the left side under the steering wheel about 1/2 way back. It is oriented in a parallel fashion to the driver.�
Jan 11, 2013
XK8driver To me knowing my maintenance costs and the security of 24/7 roadside assistance and towing is WELL worth $1.64/day!! Guys we're buying some very new technology it will be a few years before they know how these cars hold up under actual use. I feel much better after George's explaination...�
Jan 11, 2013
brianman Here?
�
Jan 12, 2013
raptorweb Yeah that is it�
Jan 14, 2013
rogbmw I would bet that the TESLA does not have an actual "OBD II" port, as there is no equipment on the car that reflects OBD II requirements. Remember - OBD (onboard diagnostics) II ports monitor engine and emissions equipment - the TESLA has none. Other manufacturers have different ports that directly plug into the computers, but the information is not OBD information.
I hate bringing this up, but regarding the warranty issue that was being discussed in the previous page or two, many manufacturers have propriatory information on their cars that they do not share with aftermarket shops. On my BMW -many of the diagnostics are not available to independent shops. In fact, on new BMWs, one has to go back to the dealer to have the battery changed, as taking out a battery has a major impact on the computer.�
Jan 25, 2013
hans Anyone get this to work? I tried out my bluetooth OBDII adapter in this port. It powered up but I couldn't get it to talk to the Tesla ECU. I am looking for a way to stream live telemetry from the car.�
Jan 26, 2013
markwj Does your adaptor support 1Mbps CAN? That is the speed of the bus in the roadster, and stops a lot of lower-end OBDII equipment from seeing anything.�
Jan 26, 2013
hans Nope. It's a cheapo unit with the mass market chipset that doesn't do 1 Mbps CAN. I have done some internet research but it's difficult to figure out which unit to try. The Torque Wiki recommends the Scantool ODBLink MX but they aren't using these things on Teslas. If you know if an adapter (Bluetooth or USB or whatever) that is known to work on the Roadster I can give it a try on the Model S.�
Jan 26, 2013
markwj For Roadster, we just use USB-CAN adaptors. But, those use proprietary libraries, so it would be roll-your-own software to poll OBDII - not hard (see the OVMS OBDII vehicle module for an example).�
Jan 28, 2013
W.Petefish The OBD2 is used for TPMS as well as for an inspection station.�
Jan 28, 2013
hcsharp The TPMS brings up an interesting point. I assumed inspections of EVs didn't require hooking up to the OBD2 port since there are no pollution control devices to monitor. But if your TPMS has to be working to pass inspection then perhaps Tesla has to have a port to check that. In NH for example you can't pass inspection until your car is hooked up and the data is uploaded to the State's database.�
Jan 28, 2013
W.Petefish In some areas, like California, mandate the OBD2 plug in just to verify that there is in fact no emissions equipment installed and there is no engine. (Ridiculous, I know. Especially since Tesla only produces Electric Vehicles.)�
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