Jul 15, 2015
Canuck Uhhh... no they don't. Just because a company has to honour a contract, doesn't mean they will honour a contract.
And taking them to court to get your included alignment is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I hope Tesla does the right thing and honours the contract but even though legally they must, practically speaking they may not.�
Jul 15, 2015
MsElectric I've more than gotten my money's worth on every single Mercedes extended warranty I have bought so I am completely averse to owning a car that could be very expensive to fix if something breaks without warranty coverage. This is why I said if you plan to keep the car for a while, I'd pay for the additional 4 years of extended warranty coverage because what if they stop offering it or increase the price of it even further. That extended warranty I think used to be $2,500.
I feel if I really had to I am likely just fine taking the car in every other year for service when you have to do the fluid flushes but the extended warranty is something I'd personally want to pay and lock in right away when I get our Tesla. In fact as long as the current policy of CPO warranties not being extendable stands I am likely going to purchase a car from a private party so I can get the additional warranty coverage.
With regards to your points my main concern would be that Tesla either stops offering the additional 4 years of warranty coverage or increases the cost of it further. I'd be honestly shocked if Tesla comes anywhere near going bankrupt. I went to the Nikola Tesla birthday party at the Embassy of Croatia in DC. Guests were offered test rides in a Model S and there were foreign diplomats, Ambassadors, and professionals who were quite well off who attended the event and they were waiting in line for almost half an hour just to get a ride in a Model S. Most of these people I am sure owned very nice cars. I can't think of any other sedan where these people would have waited in line to just get a ride in. Tesla is going to do to the auto industry what digital cameras did to Kodak.
I personally would never risk depending on a non Tesla warranty to cover all the technology components in a Model S. Being such a smart Kuttakamina, I think it would make sense for you to first get the extended warranty extension if you are considering the 8 year service agreement if you plan to keep the car for a long time. If you really had to, you can service the car every other year and I can't imagine how the cost of service could go up any more than what it is already now!
Even if you decide to sell your beloved Blootiful in 4-5 years it would be a whole lot easier to sell with the full extended warranty. I think a potential buyer would value the the 4 year extended warranty more than 4 service visits being covered...
In any case it is obviously your call. Just sharing what I'd do and why...
�
Jul 15, 2015
kuttakamina Totally agree with everything you said there MsElectric. I shudda gone to the Croatian Embassy thing. But I was in Croatia then. Maybe next time.
�
Jul 15, 2015
MsElectric That was such a great event. The same group that organized that event had organized a Bastille Day Gala at the French Embassy the following day and we signed up for that event as well so it made for a fun weekend cultural experience for us in DC. So glad Tesla was there with 4 Model S cars. Many people went home that night in awe of the Model S.
The word got out quickly that the "white car" is the one to get a ride in, and that of course was a P85D! Most of these people never realized a sedan could accelerate that quickly. That 0-30/0-40 acceleration in a P85D is surreal and those who say you can't enjoy a high performance car in a city like DC have no clue what they are talking about... Hopefully they will do the event again next year.�
Jul 15, 2015
HankLloydRight I put Hankook tires on the stock 21" rims. What tires I have on the wheels shouldn't matter to rotate the wheels. It's just silly a cop-out.�
Jul 15, 2015
Canuck Great line.�
Jul 15, 2015
Lump My XPEL saved Tesla money when they scraped my front bumper, instead repainting or replacing the bumper only the XPEL was redone.�
Jul 15, 2015
Muddy Glad I pre-paid for service. Got my Model S85 in Dec 2014 - Just took it in for its Annual (14000 miles) service.Here is what they did - Key fob batteries, Wiper Blades, Cabin Filter, Updated Firmware and Wheel Alignment. Stuff they found and repaired - clicking noise in steering wheel - replaced steering rack bolts and found rear axle seal leaking on driver & passenger side so replaced both seals. Had P85 as loaner.�
Jul 16, 2015
jdw I asked about alignment at the SC yesterday and was told that checking the alignment was still included but adjusting the alignment was not. It would seem that checking the alignment would be a good piece of the work involved in doing an alignment ...�
Jul 16, 2015
CmdrThor Seems like you could have just went in for an alignment and paid $150 only. Key fob batteries ($1.50), wiper blades ($44), cabin air filter ($15) surely can easily be replaced on your own. The rest of the items are warranty. I wonder how much time they spend inspecting cars during the annual service? If it is half an hour or so then it is a ripoff. If they are spending several hours thoroughly checking out the car then it could be worth it given how much they charge hourly for service.�
Jul 16, 2015
jaguar36 If the car requires hours of inspections every year, that indicates some serious design flaws. If they are finding so much stuff that fails so frequently that it needs to be inspected every year thats a real issue. It only takes 2 hours to do a full blow pre-purcahse inspection on a ICE car.�
Jul 16, 2015
yobigd20 It's a brand new car from a brand new car company. They are learning as they go. This is expected and flaws are expected IMO. They spend so much time making sure everything is perfect. They don't need bad PR from owners having lots of issues so they try to address as many as possible before they happen. This is the only car company I know of that takes feedback directly from owners and makes changes on the fly to the whole fleet for a better overall experience. While the first cars were so much more flawed than today's cars it's their fast moving continuous improvement that helps puts them up and above all others.�
Jul 16, 2015
jaguar36 Its almost a 3-year old car at this point, and the company is 12 years old, hardly brand new. Regardless, using that argument means that the company is charging us to be beta testers for it. If they are using these inspections to improve future products, they should be paying for the inspections and wrapping that into the development cost of the future cars.�
Jul 16, 2015
Lerxt You didn't get that you were a beta tester ( like you are with every vehicle new off the production line )? I would be concerned and disappointed if they weren't using inspections to improve the product.�
Jul 16, 2015
yobigd20 yes, we are all beta testers. I swear some document I signed back in 2012 even said that we were beta testers lol. regardless, with it being so new of a car company + new technology not found in other cars I would say it is common sense that we are all beta testers here.�
Jul 16, 2015
Max* I agree with this. And for some features, we're alpha testers... like the trip planner!�
Jul 16, 2015
mspisars If you feel that way, don't give them your business, but please for crying out loud, do not say you are surprised they are improving as they go - which means, there is room for improvement, which means you are a tester of sorts (you can call it beta, but it really is RC - release candidate - testing that is happening here).
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000�
Jul 16, 2015
alexrov You paid $400 for an alignment. GJ.
I love the Model S, but the service agreement is ridiculously overpriced.�
Jul 27, 2015
Mayhemm My service order did state an alignment was performed. However, my energy use under normal operation is still abnormally high compared to others here. Not as bad as yours but still high (200+ Wh/km, whereas Rated is 180Wh/km). Perhaps they did it incorrectly, or not at all?
Took mine into Vancouver on June 25th with identical issues to yours. However, in my case the creaks remain, as do the floppy mats. Less and less impressed with my service visit with each passing day. Alignment performed only because they replaced the drive unit, though now it seems even that may have been done incorrectly (see above).�
Jul 27, 2015
AmpedRealtor Did you receive a copy of your before/after alignment numbers? Tesla always provides that to me after an alignment, even if it was part of a DU replacement.
Did you specifically ask for those issues to be remedied?�
Jul 27, 2015
sorka Um. Compared to a 100 year old company that has iteratively modified one existing platform into another over generations. By comparison, Tesla was just born yesterday. It's astonishing they've gone as far as they have in such a small amount of time.�
Jul 27, 2015
AmpedRealtor Agree with this ^^�
Jul 27, 2015
rxlawdude Be aware that if you purchase the "extended warranty" (really a misnomer as it's a contract to repair items and not a legal warranty), you MUST have Tesla do its $600 (or discounted, in the case of the prepaid maintenance) service EVERY 12,500 miles or once a year, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.
Those driving the car more than 12,500 miles will not have the full 4 or 8 years, as the 12,500 mile interval will come back and bite later.
So, to recap: First 50,000 miles/4 years is covered under a warranty. You do not need to take your MS to maintenance services at 12,500 miles or one year to keep this factory warranty in place. But those who bought the extended warranty (or those who buy it prior to expiration of the original warranty) must be aware that it's not worth the paper it's written on unless you have always abided to the 12,000mile interval.
Be informed consumers.�
Jul 27, 2015
AmpedRealtor You are speaking strictly about the language contained in the warranty, you are not speaking about Tesla policy. Those are two different things.
For instance, in the 50,000 mile warranty Tesla specifically states that squeaks and rattles are NOT COVERED, yet Tesla goes out of its way to address those issues. What is in writing is superseded by Tesla's actions. Tesla's pre-paid service plan requires the car to be serviced every year or 12,500 miles, whichever occurs first, but Tesla has changed that policy in practice and has waived both mileage and time restrictions. I have an email to that effect, which I've posted in other threads.
Just because it is written does not mean it is so.
Elon's blog post saying that regular service is NOT required to maintain the warranty can just as easily be applied to the extended warranty. He did not qualify his statements in any way, and did not make his comments specific to which warranty. He wrote generally, so one can take that to reasonably apply to all warranties. Did you read that blog post?�
Jul 27, 2015
Larry Chanin Service plans
According to this Tesla web page (link provided above) there is no requirement for WHICHEVER COMES FIRST, at least as of today. :wink:
Larry�
Jul 27, 2015
breser And just because Tesla has done something in the past or for some other person despite what their legal obligations are doesn't mean they will do it for you. If you expect them to do more than what they're obligated to do you're setting yourself up for a disappointment when policies change.�
Jul 27, 2015
AmpedRealtor Are you saying that my email from Jerome - Senior VP of Sales & Service - telling me that I can use my 4 pre-paid service visits at any time or mileage interval of my choosing will enable Tesla to deny me warranty coverage under the Extended Warranty?
Are you saying that ANYONE who did not service their cars at exactly the intervals prescribed in the owner's manual can be denied standard warranty service at any time in the future, as it states in the warranty document?
All of my experience with Tesla, from service on up to the senior management, tells me otherwise.�
Jul 27, 2015
breser Contract explicitly excludes a communication like that from altering your agreement. The only way to change the agreement is to have an amendment signed by bother parties. So no it really doesn't do much from a legal perspective.
However, I suspect that Tesla would honor whatever Jerome said. Especially as long as Jerome is still there. But that doesn't mean that your email means anything for me.�
Jul 27, 2015
AmpedRealtor Well, I was talking about me.
Also, the warranty and service documents contain no signatures - neither mine nor Tesla's. The document is a statement of policy, and I believe that policy can be changed by an email communication. After all, Tesla includes language saying it reserves the right to make changes and without notice.�
Jul 27, 2015
breser The original warranty is accepted as part of the purchase (which is usually accepted via the online delivery acceptance). The warranty and service contracts are usually sold online and accepted that way. The original method of agreement does not have to match the method of amendment. Tesla's contracts always stipulate a signed agreement by both parties (with an officer of the corporation on Tesla's side) in order to amend them. Go read your contract yourself.�
Jul 27, 2015
AmpedRealtor That contradicts the clause where Tesla can make changes unilaterally and without notice. At least such language appears in the pre-paid service contract, and that is the language that I relied upon to take my communication from Jerome to be an amendment to that agreement. By contrast, things that have changed - cost of ranger service, valet service radius, etc. - were never promised to remain unchanged in any contract or policy document as far as I know. Tesla appears to be acting consistently and I would have no reason to doubt anything they've said to me.�
Jul 27, 2015
breser This is the clause that's in the original vehicle warranty. Which is even stronger, it flat out says nobody can modify the warranty including Tesla employees. But that they may do something more for you anyway.
The MVPA has this bit in it.
It's been a while but I believe the extended warranty and service plan has the language I was referring to before. But I don't happen to have those agreements handy.
�
Jul 27, 2015
AmpedRealtor I understand what you are saying and that the language exists in the warranty and service contracts, etc., but implicit in your statements is that Tesla is not acting in good faith with its customers because it is recommending actions that would lead Tesla to deny future warranty coverage. Elon wrote in a blog that regular maintenance is NOT needed to maintain warranty coverage, which is in direct contradiction to the written warranty. Jerome sent me an email stating that the service intervals have been lifted. If I am to take your point of view, I am not to believe Elon or Jerome, one being the most senior officer of the company, and who have offered specific instructions contrary to their written policies.
So the take-away is that Tesla is telling us to do things that are contrary to written policies so as to enable Tesla to deny us coverage later. I simply cannot subscribe to this point of view because it is contrary to every experience that I've had with this company. I think Elon would be surprised to hear that he does not have the power to change Tesla warranty and service policies without sending all owners a signed, written amendment.�
Jul 27, 2015
breser I'm not suggesting that Tesla is doing that to try and mislead you. I'm just saying don't count on Tesla doing something different than what the contract actually requires them to do. I'm trying to set expectations correctly, which is that Tesla may go above and beyond what they have to. But nobody should expect that they do so. In fact I'd argue that's almost exactly what the original warranties language is saying.
If Elon or Jerome says something that's probably a very good sign that's going to be Tesla's policy going forward. I would expect people who relied on that statement would probably be ok, especially in the case of a warranty limitations.
But policies do change. We can't expect just because alignment service was included in annual service at one point that it will be forever. Anything Tesla has locked in by agreement they are bound to. But things like a Service Advisor telling me the reason for cost of annual service being $600 is the alignment doesn't mean that without a service contract I should expect to get an allignment forever either.
There's a difference between reasonable expectations and expecting Tesla to never change. Not saying you're suggesting that they can't change, but I want to make sure that people understand that you really shouldn't count on anything that Tesla is doing above and beyond what they actually have to.�
Jul 27, 2015
gizmoboy That's the key point.
Any while they may go above and beyond that, it's always in their sole discretion, and it may change based on other factors (stock price, market pressures, ownership change, etc.).
I got an email clarification from my local sales center that the pre-purchased service visits don't have to be used at any particular time, and I would certainly try to hold them to that when I buy and want to use them at my timeframe, but I know that my argument is not as strong as a possible counter-argument by them as to the letter of the contract to which I agreed.�
Jul 27, 2015
breser For what it's worth my vehicle was in for the first annual service (at 17,000 miles already). They said it didn't need alignment so no idea on the policy situation.�
Jul 27, 2015
rxlawdude Amped, you're in Real Estate. You should know better than anyone that the "four corners" of a written contract is what the courts will enforce. Period.
I'm just trying to prevent you from becoming another P-D when Tesla begins enforcing its contract terms more strictly.
It is absolutely true that not performing the 12,500 mile or 1 year interval will NOT void the WARRANTY, that's not the issue. That's settled law. TMC would have to prove that the failure resulted directly from not having maintenance done at the prescribed intervals, and that's a high bar. Rather, they will honor the warranty unless it's obvious. (Example from the ICE world: failure to maintain oil in the crankcase would void the warranty for the engine rebuild, but not affect the warranty on the rest of the vehicle.)
There are two issues, both are CONTRACT terms and NOT WARRANTIES.
- The Pre-paid service plan. Plain language terms state "Notwithstanding the date this Agreement is purchased or becomes effective, maintenance inspectionsmust be performed within 1,000 miles or 30 days of the specified maintenance intervals for Your selectedPlan. Any scheduled maintenance not completed within such time will be excluded and no maintenanceinspections will be added as a replacement for any such excluded maintenance inspections." It's as clear as can be. Tesla can tell you to take a flying leap when you come in at one year and 20,000 miles and expect that to be your "first" of four "annual" services. I read this as Tesla will consider the first 12,500 mile inspection forfeit, and believe any court will similarly interpret it thusly.
- The Vehicle Extended Service Plan (inartfully referred to as "extended warranty," which it legally is not). The plain language states "[t]he Owner�s Manual includes specific recommendations regarding the use, operations, and maintenanceof the Vehicle. To maintain the validity of this Vehicle ESA, You must follow correct operationsprocedures and have Your Vehicle serviced as recommended by Tesla. If requested, proof of requiredservice, including receipts showing date and mileage of the Vehicle at the time of service, must bepresented before any repairs under this Vehicle ESA commence. Service within 1,000 miles and/or 30days of Tesla�s recommended intervals shall be considered compliant with the terms of this Vehicle ESA.
You can pretend that a non-binding email will have an effect, but good luck. I will take the written terms as they are, and not expect anything beyond that. If they do provide services in excess of what is promised in the New Vehicle Warranty and VESP, or waive the service intervals, I'll be delighted. But I won't expect it.
�
Jul 27, 2015
Electricfan I'm not going to read all 157 posts on this thread, but I'll weigh in anyway...
I just (24 hrs ago) plunked down my $1900 for the 4 yr service plan. I read the agreement and I was certainly convinced that alignment was part of the deal. If not, I'll be sorely disappointed.�
Jul 27, 2015
rxlawdude But you're missing so much great information.�
Jul 27, 2015
Electricfan Awesome, thanks, knew a generous forum member would save me the trouble!�
Jul 27, 2015
sorka Contracts as written aren't always enforceable. Contracts written that violate consumer protection laws or other statutes aren't enforceable. Often it depends on the state. Often you'll see wording in contract that says "except where probhibited by state law" or where specific states are excluded in one way or another from allowing or denying. Often those will be left out because the contract writers make mistakes. It happens all the time in all industries and professions....including real estate
Even for extended warranties offered by manufacturers, they must specifically state what service must be done in what mileage and or time intervals included either in the owners manual or vehicle maintenance manual.
If the touch screen went out and there was no required inspection or maintenance for that particular item, they couldn't deny repairing it just because you didn't get the suspension examined. You would have had to have failed to properly maintain the touch panel and the proper maintenance would has to be spelled out. I doubt there is any maintenance on that item.
Tesla is young. They make mistakes. They had to change their stance on the factory warranty due to regulatory pressure. I seriously doubt Tesla will void the extended warranty unless there was a failure specific to the customers failure to follow *specific* maintenance. A blanket $600 yearly inspection is not enforceable.�
Jul 27, 2015
wk057 Disclaimer: Didn't read entire thread.
I had annual/12.5k mile service done on my P85D recently (prepaid contract bought in January) and an alignment was performed with noticeable positive results.�
Jul 28, 2015
AmpedRealtor I appreciate that, I do. However, in real estate, email communications are considered binding in certain circumstances. For instance, a seller can cancel their listing contract with my broker via email, and without a signature, even though the original agreement required signatures by both parties. A buyer can also cancel a buyer broker exclusive employment agreement by email, and without signature, even though signatures were required at the contract's inception. It's not always true that an email cannot amend or change a contract. It depends upon the situation and the legal body governing such things - in my case, the Department of Real Estate.
The crux of my argument is this: If I follow the servicing intervals as indicated in my email from Jerome Guillen, Senior VP of Sales & Service (at the time), and I have that email as reference, I do not believe Tesla can legally decline service under the standard warranty or ESA (extended warranty) based upon my following the recommendations set forth by Mr. Guillen, a senior officer of the company, even if those service intervals are in contradiction to the written warranty. As with any officer of the company, as with Elon, any statements modifying service intervals would be considered policy.
When Elon published his blog post that service is not required to maintain the warranty, are we to believe that holders of the ESA (extended warranty) will be declined service based upon following the procedures outlined by Elon in his blog post where he said that service is NOT required to maintain the warranty? What will prevail - the text of the warranty or Elon's blog post? I would think that Elon's blog post constitutes a change in Tesla policy. If it doesn't, then someone should tell the many thousands of Model S owners that they are screwing themselves by following what Elon has clearly stated.
I don't know many people who actually read their warranty documents, we are lucky here in that we have a group of intelligent buyers that do. My point is that most people follow what they are told by the car dealership, or in this case, by Tesla itself. I am not talking about something verbal here, I'm talking about things that are written for all the world to see.
Even the service centers are saying that time and mileage intervals no longer apply to the pre-paid service agreement, so if they no longer apply, how can Tesla legally deny extended warranty service based upon its own actions?�
Jul 28, 2015
donauker It certainly appears that not all of the service centers agree with this.
I was notified by a close friend that our local service center initially refused to allow him to use his 3rd of 4 pre-paid annual services since he was a bit past 50,000 miles. It was only after he expressed serious dissatisfaction with this and pointed out that he was not only a Roadster and Signature Model S owner but was also considering ordering a Model X, that they relented a bit. They agreed to extend his mileage limit to 60,000 miles if he places a deposit on an X! So now he is planning to do another service 3 months after this past one just so he doesn't lose the 4th service he pre-paid.�
Jul 28, 2015
yobigd20 That is just f'd up. What is wrong with Tesla? Why are they trying to piss off their loyal owners like this?�
Jul 28, 2015
TaoJones Agreed - that's just silly. Introducing a one-off is not what's needed here.
There is a clear opportunity for improvement. More communication *to* senior management from owners is necessary until this is resolved. Else it will just get worse.�
Jul 28, 2015
jaguar36 I think we just have to understand that Tesla is marketing themselves as a great customer oriented company, but in reality they are treating their customers just as poorly or sometimes even worse than established car companies do.�
Jul 28, 2015
mspisars No, I think we need to stop paying attention to 3rd or 4th hand accounts of service. Tesla has a long way to grow - we can agree!
But seriously, comments starting with "I was notified by a close friend " are not reliable, to say the least.
You just went through 2 interpretations of events with possibility to get it skewed growing with each iteration.
Even the first account "reports" of the guy to whom Tesla would not sell the Model X (cancelled his reservation after he threatened to sue about his Model S order), when he posted the email of his interactions with Tesla, way more details came out that made Tesla's decision seem practical...�
Jul 28, 2015
apacheguy Ugh. I thought this had been sorted out. Jerome basically waived the mileage limit a while ago and it seems not everyone is on the same page. Can anyone get a straight answer on the mileage requirement for the prepaid plans?�
Jul 28, 2015
breser It's never been entirely sorted out it pops up from time to time. Tesla could settle this once and for all by updating the contract. But it hasn't even been updated for new contracts let alone existing ones.
But none of this has anything to do with Alignment being part of Annual Service. From what I've seen on this thread, Tesla intends to carry through with the contracts they have that say it is. Everyone else is not going to get that.
As much as we might not like that, Tesla is entitled to change what it charges for services. I'm not a fan of this change, but Tesla is entitled to make it.�
Jul 28, 2015
TaoJones Maybe so, but it would be nice as a transitional exercise to offer existing owners the option of buying the prepaid package within the first year of ownership (prior to their first annual service). That way, nobody gets stung and no excuses can be made. Otherwise, nickel, meet dime.�
Aug 20, 2015
Sparky @Zarwin and others here. Thank you for this. Just had my 2nd annual service on my S85. I am on the pay as you go, ($600) service plan. I noted that my car was beginning to make a "thrum" noise at 70 MPH and the Service Rep said it's probably the alignment. Then he said it's no longer included as part of the annual and costs ~$200 (I have the Standard Suspension). Because I'd seen this thread, I was able to email the page from Tesla's website to the service rep while I was there. He said, he'd check with the Service Manager. Called me later and said they wouldn't charge me for the alignment and the rep thanked me for pointing out the web page (uh-oh).
Saved me $200 and the alignment, which was pretty far off, did seem to fix the "thrum" noise.
Love this forum.
Side note: My loaner was the same model as last year, a P85+ with about $6k miles on it. Unlike last year's which seemed kinda rough, this one drove like a dream. Quick, quiet, nimble. The build quality is noticeably better. Now I want one... damn.�
Aug 20, 2015
taurusking
In the interest of saving money ( I hope service center will be able to catch on to anything major during annual service visits) in the future...I decided to schedule my service visit.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.
Thanks to Sparky for mentioning wheel alignment...�
Dec 7, 2015
mmccord I was charged $450 for an alignment last weekend, so $149 is a bargain.
Not sure what goes into a $450 alignment, must be gold-plated shims or something.�
Dec 7, 2015
JenniferQ Thanks for sharing. Took screen shot for the future. That's the main reason I bought the service plan! Alignments are necessary and expensive.�
Dec 7, 2015
Nickjhowe Just had my annual service on my P85 at the West Palm Beach, FL, service center. I got two new tires and asked them to do an alignment. Tires:$375 each. Service: $600. Four-wheel alignment: $120�
Dec 7, 2015
Larry Chanin This is rather disconcerting. I was quoted $180 last week. It doesn't seem proper that the fee for the same service should vary by this degree. Is each service center quoting a separate fee unrelated to other service centers?
Larry�
Dec 7, 2015
Caligula Question... is there any reason why an alignment shop can't do this for us? IIRC I paid something like $300 for lifetime alignments on my previous ICE at a local shop. They used the same laser alignment machine that my buddy uses at the BMW dealership as well.�
Dec 7, 2015
Cyclone My S has a lifetime alignment elsewhere and they do a great job. Nothing special about the S in terms of alignment except to make sure they use a lift properly to not damage the battery.�
Dec 7, 2015
Caligula Good to know!�
Apr 15, 2016
KneeCola Wanted my first post to be about my experience with my Tesla MS but need urgent advice on wheel alignment on MS. In the past 50 days I owned MS P85 I had one minor scrap to the curb while PParking. Currently the car is in service station for other warranty related issues and while checking on alignment (which I had reported to check) the SC guy mentioned that the alignment on the wheel which scraped the curb is way off. Estimate to balance all four wheels is around $260. I have not taken the annual inspection plan, yet to decide on that. But is the normal rate for wheel realignment? Can I get the wheel alignment done by some other established shop (Pepboys, Firestone etc) as I have active air suspension in my car?�
Apr 15, 2016
jerry33 The now do an alignment check if you have the prepaid service and charge $140 for the alignment if it's needed (this is new as of a few weeks ago).
$250 is normal for a manual alignment (where they use real measuring tools rather than the guess machines) or where the alignment is custom (e.g. race cars).�
Apr 15, 2016
KneeCola Thanks for the information. That helps.�
Apr 15, 2016
RichieTheC If I don't see bad tire wear, I avoid an alignment like the plague. Easy to screw it up. Before my Tesla, I had an Audi A6 for ten years. The tires wore so perfectly that I never once had the alignment done the entire time I owned it!�
Apr 15, 2016
Andyw2100 But if you have the prepaid service and you purchased it when alignments were still part of the annual service then they're not charging that $140, right?�
Apr 15, 2016
TaoJones To add to the confusion, there remain SvCs that do not charge extra money for an alignment even with an a la carte annual service (versus the prepaid variant). Their phraseology resembles "While we don't charge extra now, we may in the future."
Note the additional recent verbiage shift for annual service that now specifies either 12,500 miles or 12 months, *whichever comes first*. That's a huge change, in conjunction with the now variable charges based upon the year of service (now ranging from $400-$900 rather than a flat $600, before $0-$140-$210 for an alignment).
The net is that there is still no consistency across Service either way, and a lot of unnecessary ambiguity.
That used to be called an opportunity for improvement.�
Apr 15, 2016
swegman I have a 2013 P85 with the prepaid service plan. I had the annual service done 2 weeks ago at the Rockville service center. An alignment was performed as part of the service for no extra charge. They also provided me with a printout of the before and after alignment readings.�
Apr 15, 2016
Andyw2100 Good to know. Thanks!�
Apr 15, 2016
thecloud My prepaid service plan (purchased in 2014) says that wheel alignment and tire rotation are included. Of course, it also includes these weasel words: "subject to change by Tesla at any time and without notice, in its sole discretion."
That said, I had the same experience as swegman on my last scheduled annual service, where they both rotated and aligned the tires:
"Performed tire rotation."
"Completed a four wheel alignment with ride height calibration. Upon completion, road tested to confirm alignment is corrrect."
Pay Type: Service Plan Amount: 0.00�
Apr 15, 2016
melindav I had just read thru the service plan info on Tesla's site and understood the wording as an alignment check would be included, actual alignment at an additional charge.�
Apr 15, 2016
Andyw2100 Yes, the plan changed. People purchasing the plan now, and since some date some time ago would not have the wheel alignment included, unless the Service Center just felt like throwing it in for some reason.
The question that I posed up thread, and the question that has now been answered by a couple of people since then applies to those of us who purchased the prepaid service plan --BEFORE-- Tesla changed the annual service, and the plan from a time when wheel alignments --WERE-- included.�
Apr 16, 2016
jerry33 The last time they didn't charge but said they would next time. However, next time they won't be doing the alignment as $140 is far to much to pay for an alignment that has been just okay 2 out of 5 times. If I'm going to pay, I want one that is correct.�
Apr 16, 2016
PaulusdB As most responded re: Tesla Motors' Service Center costs and policies, I give you my Dutch experience with alignment done outside of TM. Starting years ago, BTW.
After TM's repeated (and failing) attempts to correctly align my P85+, I went to an established tyre shop in my region. They performed an excellent job, even giving me some discount for being the first Tesla MS they ever worked on. Incl. 21% VAT, I owed them � 50,00 for a 45 minute job. From my referrals, they have since serviced many more Model S's, to the fullest satisfaction of those owners. Those got charged � 75,00 incl. tax. One of those owners almost gave up on his 21" wheels, as the TM SeC tried to get the car aligned and failed three times in a row. One visit to 'my' shop fixed it. Of course nothing related to the implied 'issue' of the wheels being 21".
So in my experience going outside of TM worked out very well for lots of Dutch TM customers. We saved some money and serious amounts of time that way.
Some notes, though:
- Make sure the shop uses the newest Hunter equipment, like TM do. All TM models' specs are in there.
- One thing TM can do, that outside shops cannot do easily: adjust ride height. The SeC does this through the car's software. Outside shops may have to use hardware (adjustable lowering links). As both my summer and winter sets have the same wheel height, there is no (additional) need for regular adjustment of ride height. TM did this adjustment anyhow, included in my last SeC visit, december 2015. At that date, at 40K km and 2 years of ownership, the first and only service inspection was performed on my car. Cost: a whopping � 700,00 incl. 21% VAT. Standard price, but that's another story.
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Apr 16, 2016
Andyw2100 That's bizarre!
I have to hope that is just a misunderstanding of something by someone at your service center. Tesla can't possibly think it is OK to sell people prepaid service plans that include wheel alignments, and then after people have paid for these plans say, "Hey... We're making a change... Now this plan you paid for no longer includes something it had stated explicitly you had paid for. You have to pay for that separately."
I just don't see Tesla attempting to do that, and I certainly don't see them succeeding.�
Apr 16, 2016
jerry33 I have no way to verify that yet, although you are correct in that the policy shouldn't change for existing plans. So far I haven't had to pay.
I'm somewhat okay with a substandard alignment when there are no current out-of-pocket costs. If I have to pay, I want it done right and the SC people are not alignment specialists, they really only have the ability to read the computer screen, which may or may not show the correct values depending on a number of factors. They aren't qualified to do an in-depth analysis of the tire wear and alignment angles. This isn't really a negative because no one can be master of everything and I'd rather have them be proficient at the more "Tesla" parts of the car. Almost all the places that do alignments aren't any more qualified than the Tesla SC personnel, which is why good alignment shops are highly prized.�
Apr 16, 2016
Andyw2100 The plot thickens.
It does not appear your service center person was "confused" or misunderstood anything. I now believe there has been communication from the mothership that the policy should be to charge even those of us with prepaid agreements that predate the change.
My car is currently in for its second annual service and Ludicrous upgrade. I spoke with my service advisor today, and when he was going over my bill, about to take my credit card info, he was going to charge $68 or so for putting swapping my all-season tires/wheels for the snow tires/wheels. (I have 8 wheels, so there was no mounting or unmounting of tires involved.) When I explained that I had the prepaid agreement that covered tire rotation and wheel alignment, he said that he would waive the fee this time, but in the future I'd have to pay for those things. We had a short discussion about it, but I realized that this decision was not made at the service center level, so correcting it will have to come from corporate.
I checked MyTesla, to see what the agreement said. Here's something I find really less than forthright: the agreement now in my account, showing a date of when I signed it back in November of 2014, has been changed. Clicking the link to that agreement, the CURRENT agreement, dated in 2016, with changed language is displayed. Again, this is from within my MyTesla account, while logged in. A screenshot, including the text in question circled and underlined, is below.
Luckily I am also able to include a screenshot, also with the relevant language circled in red, from the agreement as it was written at the time I purchased it. To get that agreement, though, I had to dig through my old email.
Tesla should be showing us the agreements we entered into, not modified agreements when we try to see our own documents in MyTesla.
More importantly, Tesla should not be trying to change materially an agreement like this after the fact.
Below are the two screen captures, with the original first.
Original:
Current:
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Apr 16, 2016
HankLloydRight Well, that pretty crappy of them. But I think the contract linked to your MyTesla page is more of a website bug than actual corporate policy. I get the same 2/2016 contract, when I bought mine in 2014 with the same language as yours.
I don't believe Tesla will go back on this part of the contract. All it would take is a threat of third party dispute resolution (as per the contract) and they'll likely cave on this issue.�
Apr 16, 2016
Andyw2100 It may well be a website bug, but it's one that winds up being awfully convenient for Tesla.
After my conversation with my service advisor today, the first place I went looking to see what I had "in writing" was that contract linked to through MyTesla page. How many people do you think will do that? I found the part I was looking for, and my first reaction was, "Damn...he was right...it --DOES-- say wheel alignment CHECK, not wheel alignment."
But then I thought some more, and I was reasonably certain that I remembered discussion here, on TMC, about this, and that people had said that wheel alignments were definitely included. At that point I looked at the date of the agreement, and realized that it was not the agreement in place at the time I purchased it. It was only then that I went looking for the agreement I purchased, found it, and found the more favorable language.
The issue is, though, how many people would simply stop looking once they found the language in the agreement they THOUGHT they had entered into? The fact that the last thing one sees before the agreement opens is the date one entered into the agreement is a strong indication that the language one is about to read is the language in THAT agreement, not some other one that came later.
So while this may just be a website bug, it's one that could result in customers just going along with what they are being told by well-meaning, but misinformed service personnel.�
Aug 17, 2016
jdo I have my 1st annual service visit tomorrow at Rockville. I purchased A 4-year plan in May 2015 when alignment was covered.
I was hoping to be able to print out and bring a copy of my service agreement, just in case, however I now see that the online service plan under My Tesla has been changed to one dated February 8, 2016.
Does anyone have a pdf of the 4-year plan that was active in May 2015? I'm hoping it won't be necessary.
EDIT/UPDATE: Just called Rockville and they said they would honor the alignment being covered. Apparently brake cleaning/adjusting/lubrication still isn't covered. Would still be nice to have a copy of the old agreement.�
Aug 17, 2016
rxlawdude So much for the comprehensive nature of the $400-$700 they collect. Early owners used to brag about the car being torn down and reassembled during these "inspections," all included in the price.�
Aug 17, 2016
Wuggado? Not only that, the way I read the agreement they get to decide what's necessary and what's not. So, you are paying $400-$700 flat rate, and not necessarily getting everything. Not sounding like such a good deal to me.�
Aug 17, 2016
Gizmotoy I managed to dig mine up, but it's from late 2013. Probably different from yours. The email subject was "Receipt for your Tesla services". You could probably use that to find your copy.
Pretty sneaky that on the website they change the agreement you purchased to whatever the most recent language may be.
That said, I had mine in for my annual back in April and they did the alignment as requested without fuss. I guess I'll see what happens when I'm in for my 3 year here in a few months (I was late on my 2 year).�
Aug 17, 2016
jdo Yep, I was able to retrieve it from email. I had forgotten they had sent it to me. Thanks.�
Aug 27, 2016
Footer I have the 2014 agreement which says wheel alignment is included but that Tesla can change the inspections done at any time without notice. I believe the effect of this is that Tesla does not have to do a wheel alignment every year if it's not needed. However, if one is needed, they can't charge for it.
I just took it in for the second annual service. They did everything listed on the website for year 2. It needed alignment and they did it. No extra charge.
FYI, the current service rate is $150/hour at Highland Park.�
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