Dec 31, 2015
FlasherZ Love it. Can't wait.�
Dec 31, 2015
gjunky Max, did you try to sit in the middle row seats after sitting in front (model X)? I thought the legroom in the middle row was pretty limited even when fully moved back. I am 6'1 but have long legs. Curious to see what you impression is.
The windshield is truly amazing, as are the roof windows in the Falcon Wing doors.�
Dec 31, 2015
dirkhh Wow - first I thought "our body proportions have to be extremely different". I'm 6'4" as well and sit extremely comfortably in my Model S (both the 60 with the "original" seats as well as the P85D with next gen seats).
But then I realized this is all a matter of seat position. I'm sure I could configure my seat so that my view would be roughly like that picture. But I have no interest in doing so. In my car I have easily 4in in space above my head.
Edited to add:
Since the rest of the conversation ended up being moved to snippiness, let me just edit this post trying to make it obvious that I did not want to imply that this picture was staged with any ill intend - I was trying to say that my typical seat position is possibly a lot more reclined and that you sit more up-right than I do.�
Dec 31, 2015
ohmman My feeling is that some people have longer torsos than others. My wife and I are the same height, but seated she's much shorter. I don't think dirkhh was insinuating a staged photo, either way. I don't have the height challenges of either of you (if only!) so I can't compare, but any way you look at it, the MX viewport is outstanding.�
Dec 31, 2015
idoco This is 6'2" in a Roadster. And I'm as slouched as I could get. Pretty sure when I sat up straight I was looking over the windshield while driving!
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Dec 31, 2015
AnOutsider Some posts moved to snippiness.�
Dec 31, 2015
MaxK Back to some good stuff. I picked up my car today and without mentioning it, they swapped out the rear floor mats to a set designed for a six seater.
Sorry about the flash washing out the photo:
- - - Updated - - -
I have been asked for a picture of the energy screen for the X to see the rated number Wh/mi. I have attached the photo, but I am not sure how to read what the exact rated number is.
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Dec 31, 2015
dirkhh Cool - we would likely go for the six seater and I thought the carpet looked a little odd (like an afterthought) in your earlier pictures. This is definitely an improvement.
- - - Updated - - -
Layman's analysis:
Looks like it's about 5/21 of the way between 300 and 455... so 336 +/-7 Wh/mile seems to be a rough guess
(in case it's not obvious, I'm counting the polarization lines - the slight green shift in tint of the pixels)
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Dec 31, 2015
AlMc FYI: Carpeting: MarkZ took delivery today and indicated some issues with the carpeting as well.�
Dec 31, 2015
MaxK I am glad we went with the 6 seater for another reason. The X has some serious blind spot issues (IMHO). The photo below shows the rear view mirror view with the 6 seats. I fear that the 7th seat would almost fully obstruct the view (that we my perception from my limited time in Elon's car at the reveal). 7 seat owners may chime in and correct me as their experience will be better. IMHO this car begs for a rear view camera / rear view mirror combo.
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Dec 31, 2015
ohmman The backwards view in my MS is as bad or worse. I've come to rely heavily on having a camera. It's a vastly better implement anyway (until it's filthy or snowy!)�
Dec 31, 2015
MaxK Do you use the camera while driving forward? I may have to try that.�
Dec 31, 2015
SMSMD Congratulations Maxk. ..input from 7 seater owner will be much appreciated. .I will be going for a seven seater when my time comes. .enjoy your new X..happy 2016 .�
Dec 31, 2015
bonnie A firmware update will give auto presenting door handles. It's just not available yet, not that it has been replaced permanently.�
Dec 31, 2015
ecarfan I always have my S rear view camera image at the top of the center display. Huge help. Give it a try in your X! [emoji3]Thanks Bonnie, I didn't know that. So the X door handles are in fact powered by the same mechanism as used in the S, do you think? Interesting.
So I am going to, for now, assume that for future X owners who do not get the Premium Package option that is how their front doors will open, by having the handles present and then pulling on them, like the S.
I wonder if the Falcon Wing door handles will also present and then the door can be activated to open up by pulling on the handle? Or will those door handles remain as they are now, only respond to touch and not extend?�
Dec 31, 2015
MaxK I think we may be talking about 2 different things. I'll explain my understanding and feel free to correct anywhere that I am wrong. The door handles on the S auto-present too you when you walk up to the car with the fob. On the X, they do not do that (and I believe never will do that). Instead, after a firmware update, the entire door will open upon your approach to the car.
As you saying that the door handles are going to pop out like on the S (after a firmware update)?�
Dec 31, 2015
highedu Bonnie is the expert as she owns an X, but from what I saw at the delivery event, the door handles will not auto present. Instead, you press the handle, there is a small click sound, and the door pops open.
with premium package the doors will auto open as you approach without pressing on the chrome piece.
The primary question is if the front door pops open as you approach, what's to keep it from dinging an object next to it�
Dec 31, 2015
MaxK I have added a brief video that shows the active spoiler retract and deploy as well as the user manual instructions for the spoiler.
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Dec 31, 2015
ecarfan Yes I understand how all the X doors work right now, as all those built so far (and for a few more months at least) will have the Premium Package option. My interest in speculating about this is how the X front doors will operate in those cars without the Premium Package option, meaning the front doors won't be motorized.
In those X's, will the front door handles extend like the the S handles and then you pull on them to open the door? That seems likely. If not, how will you grab onto an X front door to open it (since it won't have a motor to power it open as the currently produced X's do?).�
Dec 31, 2015
ohmman It's possible that you'll touch/depress the handle, and the door will pop open. Then you'll open it with the door edge. I don't know how ideal that is, but it's a possibility.�
Dec 31, 2015
andrewket I think it's likely the X's without premium will still have motorized doors. You press the button and it will open. It won't auto open or auto close.�
Dec 31, 2015
highedu
That at is what I am suggesting�
Jan 1, 2016
Vitold Are you sure? I read that auto presenting doors will be enabled with the firmware update. Retractable door handles would be pretty redundant, I think.�
Jan 1, 2016
Mark Z The Model X front door edge seems too thin for retractable handles. When closing the door electrically, it can be best to have it open at least halfway, your results may vary.
The following is based on my experience so far and hopefully Tesla Motors will be more specific. They are extremely clear in their warnings to never open both the front and Falcon Wing Doors where the front door is 20 degrees or less. While the DS mentioned the doors could hit, the Owner's Manual only warns that your hands must not be near the front door edge and could be injured if the Falcon Wing Door was to open or close if the front door is less than 20 degrees open.
The Owner's Manual viewed on the touch screen appears NOT provide exterior closing instructions as of 12/31. I have found several ways to close the front door from the outside. The important thing to remember is that these driver/passenger front doors have an electric assist to fully close the door, they do NOT need to be firmly slammed (and IMHO, should NOT be except in emergencies, hopefully Tesla will be more specific.)
The front doors can be quickly but gently pushed from the outside to the closed position from any open position, just check that the front door latches and pulls in.
To slowly close the door, move it to the closed position until it partially latches, the door will pull in and close fully. Any part of the door could be touched, but I would suggest the chrome button to keep fingers from the edge. This would be the preferred method with children or pets, as you can monitor that the door area is clear and free of obstructions.
If you prefer to let the door close electrically using one hand while the front door is in a half opened or full opened position, here are my suggestions with the driver's front door. (The goal is to push the chrome door button without moving the opened door.)
Easiest: If you are standing looking at the outside of the driver's front door while it is in a half or full open position, then with your right hand, then place all four fingers behind the thin door edge and press the center of the chrome button with your thumb without moving the door. Remove your hand away fully as the door electrically closes by itself.
Takes practice: If you are standing looking at the inside of the driver's front door, while it is in a half or full open position, then with the left hand, place your left thumb behind the thin door edge so you can press the center of the chrome button firmly with the left index finger without moving the door. Remove your hand away fully as the door electrically closes by itself. (Vary this method by looking for the chrome button edge for finger placement or feel for the chrome button with all four fingers.)
If there are wind conditions, then the above ideas might not work. Hold onto the door and move it carefully to the closed position and press the center of the chrome button and check that the door pulls in.
To repeat, while these methods make closing the front doors a luxury, do not attempt this unless the doors and your hands are away from the Falcon Wing Doors.
(And if you think my instructions are complex, just wait until you read your Owner's Manual for many additional door instructions and warnings.)�
Jan 2, 2016
schonelucht You are now the second owner to report front and FWD doors can't be open at the same time (albeit with a little qualification of less then 20 degrees). The first one (jmwang) claims were met derision to the point he had to post a pic with his key fob to 'prove' he really was an owner. He also got a stern talking to from Bonnie that he was wrong and should call her to learn how wrong he was. So now I am wondering, have you tested the truth to this claim or is it just based on DS advice?�
Jan 2, 2016
Mark Z Of course they can both be open at the same time, I never said that, but in regard to your last question:
ABSOLUTELY ON THE ADVICE OF MY DS. We went over the subject carefully. However, in my reading of the Owner's Manual tonight (the only one I have is on the touchscreen) are the warnings about the 20 degree angle and how hands and fingers may get injured if the Falcon Wing Doors open.
So, that is why I put both comments into my lengthy post, because IF the DS is right, then I don't want to skip the warning. But the Owner's Manual says nothing about the doors hitting each other. My GUESS is that IMHO, someone came up with the door hitting warning during buyer training to drive the problem home about keeping the driver door more than 20 degrees open OR fully closed when moving the Falcon Wing Doors.
BTW, I don't remember the DS mentioning keeping fingers away from the OPEN front door side edges when the Falcon Wing Doors open or close. If he did, it was briefly because he stressed the doors hitting. Who knows, could someone be concerned how bad that sounds during delivery, compared with the easier door damage warning instruction that gets the job done without bringing up injury to people, but rather damage to the doors.
My conclusion: Tesla Motors has a serious communication issue by not providing everyone with the most accurate information by publishing a PDF of the most important portions of the Owner's Manual directly from their source. Having some of the Owner's Manual online is a MUST but with limitations. There are a FEW instructions that must be held in confidence between the drivers and Tesla Motors. There are security issues no owner should reveal. They should be read on the touchscreen by each owner individually after they purchase their car. To allow ALL the Owner's Manual information to be published would be a huge mistake.�
Jan 2, 2016
schonelucht Now I am even more confused! Forgive my density, it's probably the new years celebrations that are still ringing a bit. You previously said that your DS told you not to have the front door at <20 degrees and the FWD opening because they could hit but due to your reading of the owner's manual the real reason not to have that combo is because there is a possibility of injuring your hands? Yet you haven't physically tried to confirm your suspicion because if your DS was telling the truth you, understandable, don't want to dent your car. Am I reading your words correctly this way?
So, how does the position of the front door influence the risk of the FWD causing injury to your fingers? Is it because to keep the front doors at <20 degrees your hands must hold them in a way that hinders the trajectory of the FWD?
? 'should' as in 'for the greater good' or 'should' as in 'legally compelled to'? I mean, either way, it'd be a super-ineffective way of dealing with whatever the issue you are hinting at. My take is you probably didn't get a printed owner's manual because by the time it's fully edited and typeset it's already outdated due to Tesla's rapid progress. Only providing easily updated digital documentation is just the practical thing to do.�
Jan 2, 2016
Mark Z Yes, I don't want to dent the vehicle.
Lets say it's windy. The 20 degree front door angle allows plenty of hand space when you must hold the door by the side edge, since there are no handles. By getting rid of the handle there is no other place to hold the door in a heavy wind. Tesla wants zero injuries, so they request keeping the doors open at least 20 degrees when moving the Falcon Wing Doors.
Neither of your suggestions! It's 'for the good of the vehicle owner' and no one else. It's something that only helps the owner, but like a PIN or CVV number, shouldn't be shared.
I agree that the manual can be out of date. But it's also possible that Tesla Motors hasn't printed them for early VINs or that someone borrowed the manual from the glove box and didn't put it back in. It was the first Model X at that SC.�
Jan 2, 2016
schonelucht Thanks for your patience in getting through to foggy me. It's all clear now. Pretty much a non issue then but I can see where all the confusion is coming from.�
Jan 2, 2016
Vitold If pinching fingers is an issue, which is to be expected since there's no handle to hold on too, I'm surprised that Tesla did not disable FwD operation when front door is open <20 Degrees.�
Jan 2, 2016
jeffreys Mark,
Thanks for all the detail you've been publishing about the doors. One point I have to take issue with: If Tesla Model X owners' security or the security of their vehicle relies on a portion of the owner's manual remaining secret, that's just NEVER going to work. That information will be exposed. I haven't seen the owners manual yet, but the emergency unlock procedures for the frunk come to mind to me. I'm sure there are others. Security by obscurity never works in the long term.�
Jan 2, 2016
PeterK I was thinking that as well, perhaps it will come in a firmware update. Also in the event that someone pushed both door buttons (on the same side) at the same time, it could pause one briefly until the other shuts.�
Jan 2, 2016
Mark Z When opening and closing the door today, I tempted fate by safely positioning the front door close while the Falcon Wing Door raised and lowered. Since the door can be stopped mid-flight, someone can show how close it gets. It looks worse than it is at times. All was safe with perhaps only the side rubber seal of the Falcon Wing Door tapping the top of the open window of the front door as it rose up during one cycle.
In regard to the "handle" there is an area between the closed window and the door edge that is at the top with just enough room for 4 fingers. That area of the door isn't as robust as the edge near the chrome button and proceeds all the way down the length of the door. It's amazing! The surface is a comfortable plastic that anyone can grab with fingers behind the door to pull it out further once it has been released. Someone may post their baby opening it after the initial button was pressed by another person. I better not give anyone ideas. We don't need AutoPilot baby videos if they haven't been done already.�
Jan 3, 2016
MaxK Some more pictures of the figured ash:
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Jan 3, 2016
AMN Max,
Nice photos. Noticed you had averaged 480 Wh/mile. How does that compare to Model S (assuming you owned one)?�
Jan 3, 2016
MaxK I did not own an S. I had a loaner for a week. However, you should ignore the 480 Wh/mile. I am still playing hard with my new toy and using Ludicrous whenever I can to the full extent that I can. (better than most roller coaster rides).�
Jan 4, 2016
PeterK Max, I've been watching your videos again tonight after getting the configuration email - thanks again! I unfortunately can't get Sig Red but will settle for my second-favorite, Titanium. I'm looking at the same black leather with black headliner interior and had been considering Obeche Matte wood until seeing what I assume is Figured Ash on your car, which is lighter, has an interesting pattern and is also matte, at least as far as I can tell.
I want to get black on black because we have five kids and the light headliner in my 2 yrs 10 most S85 is showing its age with some stains and wear marks, as are the tan seats to a lesser extent. My question to you is does your interior feel excessively dark, especially in the second and third rows? I appreciate your thoughts/impressions as I am itching to place my order as soon as possible. Thanks!�
Jan 4, 2016
highedu Max - would it be possible for you 2 take a picture of 2 adults in the 2nd row and 2 in the third row at the same time?
just trying to get a sense of how many adults can sit in the car at a time
thanks much�
Jan 5, 2016
Cyclone I do. I only turn it off at night because of glare.�
Jan 5, 2016
JimVandegriff Hi,
I am concerned about the rear view in the model X. Can you take some additional pictures of the view for the driver in the rear view mirror - perhaps with some bright light or identifiable people/objects behind the vehicle?
Thanks!�
Jan 5, 2016
MaxK View out of a 6 seater:
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Jan 5, 2016
Mark Z Great photo Max!
I agree it looks dark like that but a slight bit brighter as the eye can adjust. The dark tint on all the windows in the 2nd and 3rd row seat area cause a dark view through the rear window. As I drive the cars are visible in the darkness, but don't expect to enjoy the view of the landscape through the rear window. Use the rear screen camera if you need a better view of traffic.
The question was asked at the Tesla Forum and someone posted a link to another photo and it's just as dark: https:[email�protected]/
Did you notice one of the neatest features of the Model X Signature? The windshield air vents are covered with the grill. No reflections of plastic vents to mar the view through the huge windshield. That makes me very happy since I have enjoyed that feature for over 3 years with Model S Signature. (I have no idea if the production models will be the same.)
Makes Max's six seater the logical choice for a clearer view, however you can fold down the rear headrests as the original thread indicates: Visibility from side and rear mirrors | Forums | Tesla Motors
update: Silly me, folding down the rear seat headrests doesn't help with that 2nd row. Maybe if Tesla could make the seats fold? Now that's a good idea. :smile:�
Jan 5, 2016
JimVandegriff Thanks for the help! We've decided to go with the 6 seater for best visibility. We were originally US # 19,0XX so we expect to be configuring shortly.�
Jan 11, 2016
Scrith The pictures with the view from the driving position were very helpful. This is what convinced me to go ahead and submit my order (Production 17XXX), rather than waiting for a test drive. I'm 6'8" and have avoided the S due primarily to this issue (despite fitting reasonably well in the car, the view was a bit borderline...I could probably live with it, but not happily).�
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