May 12, 2016
supratachophobia If you aren't already up to speed: Trying to find a Tesla NEMA 14-30 adapter
The short story is that there is still a need for the NEMA 14-30 adapter that Tesla has discontinued. This need is increasing both as a percentage of current ownership that is realizing the 14-30 is useful, and as a total number of new owners where a 14-30 is their fastest/only option.
The longer story is owners and reservation holders are finding themselves in a couple of different situations where there is a legitimate need for the NEMA 14-30 adapter.
1. Their existing wiring in the home or the break box doesn't currently allow for a 14-50 connection to be run at all, or the cost to do so just isn't economical.
2. Those that have gas dryers and therefore the 14-30 is not currently in use, extending that outlet to where the car is parked is a reasonable solution for them as an alternative to a brand new run back to the breaker-box.
3. Owners and future owners find themselves traveling to locations that only have 14-30 connections (I'm looking at you in-laws). Spending the night somewhere, even with a 5-20 adapter just doesn't get the necessary range to continue on a journey or return home. 17mph from a 14-30 is far more useful/acceptable even if not ideal.
So the motivation behind this poll is some real world experience. I came across a couple forum members that posted about having trouble finding a NEMA 14-30. For whatever reason, their local service centers did not have any in stock and were either unwilling or unable to transfer inventory from another service center to their own. So I called my local service center, and sure enough they had a couple. I purchased them, boxed them up and shipped them out to the owners and charged them only the cost to do so. Well, that was 18 adapters ago, within just a 3 week period. Word got out that I was willing to do the legwork to find them and I've been helping where I can. Currently, I have 9 more people waiting to purchase adapters if I can locate them. But unfortunately, it appears as though the well may have run dry. The remaining stock at service centers is being used for warranty replacements for existing owners that may have a 14-30 adapter that goes bad in the future. As a 14-30 owner/user, I support that mentality.
All that to say this, Tesla is currently unaware of this need and so hopefully, an online poll will act as a vehicle to communicate this message to them. They already have the specs and the production figured out. While I'm sure it's not just as easy as flipping a switch, I do expect the hard work is already done. So please comment, please vote. You will be helping currently owners who need this adapter, you will be helping future Model 3 owners that will need this adapter, and you will be helping yourselves if you ever find yourself needing this adapter. The NEMA 14-30 is the 2nd most useful adapter I have at the moment so I'm not just an un-paid actor, I'm also a client.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia We started a poll on the usefulness of 14-30 charging adapters.
Hey Tesla, there is a need for that NEMA 14-30 adapter still!�
May 12, 2016
MP3Mike I have to say that I can only think the need will increase. The only case where I would want to see someone use a 14-30 as their primary charging is when they had an outlet left over from an electric dryer and switched to gas. I wouldn't want to see them plugging and unplugging a 14-30 all the time.
However, using a 14-30 when traveling and visiting relatives, family, friends is highly desirable and needed. I can't expect someone to spend hundreds of dollars so I can "fill up" my car while I am visiting them. But if I can just unplug their dryer for one night, when they aren't using it anyway, things would be golden.�
May 12, 2016
JeffK All the new Teslas would blow the fuse on a 14-30... (Oh, I guess you can dial it down)
The new Model S comes with 48 Amp charger standard. I could see many people screwing this up giving them a bad user experience.�
May 12, 2016
Petra The appropriate Tesla adapter on the mobile EVSE will cause the pilot signal to adjust the car down to 24A.�
May 12, 2016
Lloyd I use a 14-30 as my daily charge. Tesla should keep making the adapter!�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia Thank you, please vote. I know for a fact that Tesla is aware of this thread.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia Are you sure about this? I did not think there was any circuitry in the "dumb" adapters for communicating with the car. And if you use any of the 14-50 to 'whatever' adapters, you'll have the 14-50 on the mobile connector and the car will think that 50 amp (40 nominal) is appropriate instead of 30amp.�
May 12, 2016
Petra Yeah, I've never used my 14-50 adapter... I charge on a 6-30 at home (OpenEVSE-based homebuilt) and I use the Tesla 10-30 adapter when I visit my in-laws. A 14-30 adapter would be nice for other trips.�
May 12, 2016
JeffK I guess you can buy third party ones For Tesla Model S and set it manually?? it's like $55�
May 12, 2016
Petra This thread is about Tesla plug adapters for the Tesla mobile EVSE. They used to make both a NEMA 10-30 and 14-30 adapter and people want them to start making them again.�
May 12, 2016
ilg Yep. Using a proper Tesla branded adapter will tell the car how much current to draw. If you use any other adapter, you MUST do that yourself, or risk a tripped breaker, blown fuse, or even a fire.�
May 12, 2016
GoTslaGo New house came with 14-30 plug. My service center found one for me (after I read on TMC that if you ask nicely they can sometimes find them). Works fine for us. Went from 14-50 at old house to 14-30.
Definitely should keep making more variety of Tesla UMC adapters as Model 3 comes on line. I'm sure the needs will vary considerably with a much larger uptake of customers.�
May 12, 2016
AWDtsla Made my own by using a 14-50 plug without the neutral pin. But I agree Tesla should officially offer plugs for *anything* you can plug into.
edit - Really you could just cut the pin off your 14-50 adapter to do so as well.�
May 12, 2016
Lloyd Actually a 10-30, but close enough!�
May 12, 2016
AEdennis The Roadster UMC adapter choices are still all there, the Model S used to have as many choices as the Roadster ones, My plan was to have various adapters on my "gift registry" for family members who want to get me something for birthdays and Christmas, but tesla has since discontinued quite a bit of these adapters. I was able to get the 6-50 before that was discontinued.�
May 12, 2016
FlatSix911 I Agree that this is a good modification.
Just remember to label the adapter and always set the Charging to 24A on the touch screen.
Let's hope that Tesla takes note and starts producing the NEMA 10-30 and 14-30 adapters again!
�
May 12, 2016
TexasEV This workaround is not safe as Tesla goes mainstream. It's hard enough for some early adopters to remember to turn the amps down manually (or check that the setting hadn't reverted). Mainstream buyers who don't know a volt from an amp (and don't care to know) shouldn't have to take this step because some will forget and cause problems. Tesla will be blamed, and with good reason as they didn't provide the necessary native adapter.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia Your picture should be captioned "Rest in Peace".....�
May 12, 2016
chipmunk I've tripped my breaker with loaners by forgetting they aren't already set.�
May 12, 2016
Rocky_H That is good to know that they are aware of this. They should be aware...and embarrassed. It is downright irresponsible that they don't offer any adapter at the 30A level that will automatically keep the current limited to 24A. If they even offered one, we would have a safe way to use 10-30, 14-30, TT-30, L6-30, etc. For someone who mentioned that you can cut a 14-50 adapter to make it fit, yes, of course, but that's not the main thing. It's not just about getting power from the outlet. It's about having the UMC know and set the current limit.�
May 12, 2016
Drumheller I logged in to reply to this thread...
I use a Tesla 14-30 adapter as my primary charging option at home each night for my Model S. My home is newer and had a 14-30 outlet existing in the garage. I had an electrician come out to evaluate re-wiring it to 14-50. Unfortunately, the wiring conduit is so tight and has so many turns that it would be very difficult to pull a thicker gauge wire through the conduit. The other option I have is to bury a line from my breaker box, across the front yard and through the garage wall.
I was fortunate enough to find a Tesla 14-30 adapter at a service center and purchase it.
Also, haven't there been problems with mobile connectors failing due to heat issues when using a 14-50 at 40amps every night? 24 amps nightly has not caused any issues for me and I've never had less than desired charge in the car when I'm ready to go.
Definitely would like to see Tesla offer more adapters in their store.�
May 12, 2016
jerry33 Absolutely. The setting will sometimes change back to the maximum for the Tesla adapter which is higher than the correct adapter would be. I doubt anyone will check every single time they plug in, but that's what's needed if you use a cheater adapter.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia I can see it from a perception viewpoint. Q: "How long does it take to charge your car?" A: "12-16hrs" - Not exactly a ringing endorsement for electric vehicles.
I mean, it's great they want everyone to go the 14-50 route for the best experiance, but I think it's a little presumptuous to assume that everyone can or wants to. But hey, the flip-side is that they really just didn't know how popular it would become. This is where we can let them know.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia There were early reports of some adapters over-heating (they had the grey centers inside, new ones are black). As far as I know, this does not happen any more. Glad you found a 14-30 when you could. And I think your example is fairly common, at least from what I heard from those that needed to get adapters from me.�
May 12, 2016
Rocky_H Oh, I do see it from a perception viewpoint--big time, but not the one you bring up. I frequently have people asking about, what kind of charging station you need and how expensive it is. I always like to mention how Tesla was brilliant with their charging system over most of the other electric cars, in that it doesn't have to use an official J1772 "electric car charging station". It has these great adapters, so you can use whatever kind of electrical outlet you find, so it makes it really convenient and easy to find charging. So then: "Oh, like an electric dryer outlet?" "Uh, well, uh, they used to have those, but now they don't, so you can't really do that anymore..."�
May 12, 2016
Rocky_H Old ones were black, actually. New ones are grey.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia Really? I'm going out to go check all of mine right now.....�
May 12, 2016
jerry33 I don't believe it ever happened with the 14-30. Not surprising as it doesn't potentially get as warm.�
May 12, 2016
TexasEV No, this was only the 14-50s.�
May 12, 2016
jerry33 An even worse perception is: "I can't charge at my [parent's|kid's|relative's|friend's] house when I stay there because they only have a dryer outlet and the only thing I can plug into is 110V. Sorry, I just don't see the charge time with the 14-30 as being a problem.
I suspect it's an issue of cost. Tesla has to order a fairly large quantity to get a decent price.�
May 12, 2016
TexasEV If this was the excuse, why did they recently start offering 6-15 adapters? Half the charging rate of the 14-30, and many fewer installations of this outlet. The car always came with the 14-50 adapter as standard and a 30A adapter had to be purchased separately-- only by those who had reason to inquire about them knew what they were for.�
May 12, 2016
AWDtsla This is not a good issue. They could simply stop selling them individually, make a "charging kit" so they'd achieve volume production on every type, and include 10 of them in the kit.�
May 12, 2016
Rocky_H On a side note, as an ambassador for electric vehicles, I would sure hope you would not answer that question that way. People do not fill up their car from 0 to 100% every night. You're making it sound worse than it is. I explain that we usually drive about 20 or 30 miles in a day, so it kicks on for an hour or so during the night while I'm sleeping. Same thing with a dryer outlet, that if you did 100 miles during the day, at about 17 mph charging rate, it would be about 6 hours during the night while you're sleeping.�
May 12, 2016
jerry33 That works too but as it appears they decided to go the other route, I'm not expecting them to change.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia An inexperienced model 3 owner would, which is who I'm most worried about when it comes to charging hacks.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia It's a diode, some copper, and a injection molded plastic housing. They can't be *that* expensive.�
May 12, 2016
dkonigs I personally use a NEMA 10-30 adapter at home, since that's the only outlet I really have. (Older dryer outlet in the garage, as I have a gas dryer.) The house doesn't really have the electrical service to support anything better, and it was really my only option without putting in major electrical work. I'm just glad I ordered my adapter immediately after placing my deposit for the car, as they discontinued it not long after.
I'm moving soon, and will be fortunate in that my next house will have a maxed-out HPWC installed, but the 10-30 and 14-30 adapters are really important options for charging at houses of people who aren't already wired for EV charging. Anything else is too hard to find, or doesn't provide enough power. It almost feels like there should be some sort of 3rd-party-accessory market for these adapters, provided that someone can make them with the same current-limiting controls as the official ones.�
May 12, 2016
TexasEV I say it takes 30 seconds. 15 seconds to plug in when I get home and 15 seconds to unplug in the morning. Just like your phone. Who knows (or cares) how many hours your phone takes to charge when it's plugged in overnight?�
May 12, 2016
AWDtsla But they think they do. Probably the #1 question people ask me. "How long does it take to go to 0 to 100%?"�
May 12, 2016
jerry33 Even if they only cost $10 each to produce, that's $80 additional to the cost of the car and probably $400 to the selling price.�
May 12, 2016
supratachophobia Wait, how? I'm not following. What's wrong with making the adapter for $10 and getting the customer to buy the ones they need at $45 a pop?�
May 13, 2016
jerry33 Ten adapters less the two that are already there make eight new adapters.�
May 13, 2016
supratachophobia I'm not sure why every owner needs every adapter.�
May 13, 2016
KJD Agreed. I would like to see a 14-30 and a 6-50. The others are out there but these 2 are the most common that I have found.�
May 13, 2016
jerry33 I'm not either, but the suggestion above was to include all adapters with every car.�
May 13, 2016
chipmunk Another thought: I'd be happy with a 14-50 adapter with a switch on it that I could use to dial down the available amperage. That way I'm not reliant on the car I plug in to do it for me. I think the biggest problem here is there are no connectors limited to 24 amp draw....it's not that a specific plug isn't available.�
May 13, 2016
Rocky_H Yeah, but no one was really taking that suggestion seriously.�
May 13, 2016
Lloyd Every adapter is nice, but not completely necessary. Over 4 years and 80K + miles I have likely used most adapters at least once. It is a nice peace of mind to know that if you find electricity you can charge from it.�
May 13, 2016
jerry33 Right, but how can Tesla be sure that everyone flips the switch appropriately. It's the same problem as using a cheater adapter. There's some liability here for Tesla if they make such an item.�
May 13, 2016
chipmunk They can't. I'm not saying it's an ideal answer, but it's much better because as long as I leave that charger plugged into a 30 Amp circuit, I can be sure that no Tesla will try to draw more than the 24 amps that's available.�
May 13, 2016
AWDtsla Because of economies of scale. Tesla clearly doesn't want to produce unpopular adapters, the only solution is to make adapters the exact same popularity, or the adapter that only 10% of owners want does not get produced.�
May 13, 2016
supratachophobia Seeing as how nothing Tesla sells is at a loss, a $45 adapter, plus tax, plus shipping ($65+), no matter how small the margin is, should still be available for those that need it. Especially so the end user doesn't have to resort to some hack that may damage the mobile charger or the infrastructure wiring.�
May 13, 2016
TexasEV This explanation would have made sense until they came out with the 6-15 adapter a few months ago, after the 14-30 and 10-30 were discontinued. Who uses a 6-15 adapter? The demand for the two discontinued 30A adapters must be at least an order of magnitude greater than the demand for a 6-15 adapter.�
May 13, 2016
Az_Rael I would like the kit idea. I will most likely buy all of the adapters available + the chademo (and hopefully CCS) adapters for my Model 3. If I could buy them all in some sort of "super adapter kit" vs buying each on individually that would be great. Maybe they would all come with a nice bag or box to keep everything nice and organized in my frunk.
( I was a Girl Scout and I have seen lots of crazy plugs at older "EV charge stations" that could be utilized if I have an adapter. )�
May 13, 2016
supratachophobia Along those same lines, I've used every adapter at least once as well, but the 14-30 is a must have for winters at the in-laws. And the 6-50 is a must have for the summers in South Carolina.�
May 14, 2016
CliffG Not saying this is practical, but a mechanical switch could conceivably change neutral blades at the same time it changes resistors - might be a bit more bulky than the current units.�
May 14, 2016
timk225 Because it is better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.�
May 14, 2016
AWDtsla All you need is a 14-50 non-conductive neutral blade that is spring-loaded on a low-voltage switch. When you plug into 14-30, you flip to the right amperage signaling.
Now which would cost less for Tesla, that adapter or just making 2 dumb adapters, who knows.�
May 14, 2016
davewill Would have been very nice. I passed on buying a JESLA because my install had a 40a breaker on a 6-50 receptacle. I instead went with an OpenEVSE which I can set to any amperage.�
May 14, 2016
AEdennis The RAV4EV 2nd Gen can't dial the amperage like a Model S or Roadster?�
May 14, 2016
davewill Correct.�
May 16, 2016
Rocky_H I hope you realize by following that logic, one should ALWAYS buy EVERYTHING that exists, because you might possibly "need" it. Money is finite. That's why there is this concept of "opportunity cost", where people in the real world with finite resources need to make decisions about what the chances are that they might actually have a need for something and if it is worth buying. Most people have a pretty good idea of what adapters they would actually make use of, and make their plans accordingly to what the charging situation is. And if they find that there is some adapter they do need, they can get it within a week, so it's not a huge need to spend hundreds of dollars to always have every adapter, at least half of which would never get used.�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia Better yet, Tesla has the sales data for how many 14-30's they've sold. That should give them some idea that if are selling at all, there is a market for them. Hopefully, that info paired with this very small polling sample is enough to cause them to revisit the question on if to produce them or not. I mean, this pole is saying that 70% people actually need an adapter. I'm sure Tesla could mate data they have on sample sizes on this forum to ownership as a whole to get a translated number that is more accurate. But I can't help but think that number isn't totally off.�
May 16, 2016
AWDtsla None of that applies here. There are a finite amount of plugs you are going to encounter on a given continent, and the adapters themselves are almost as cheap as dirt, they just need to be manufactured. Even Elon claimed at the last big event "you should be able to charge from anywhere"�
May 16, 2016
AWDtsla Even if it's 1%, and there are 150k Tesla's sold, that's 1500 people that want the thing. That just keeps scaling. 700k cars sold by the end of 2018? That 7000 people that wanted the adapter.�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia Ouch, my point exactly. And you did the math to really hit it home.�
May 16, 2016
Rocky_H Since we are talking about a set of 10 adapters ($45 each, plus shipping), that's about $500. How wonderful for your station in life that you think an unnecessary $500 expense is "as cheap as dirt". If only everyone were that well off.
�
May 16, 2016
TexasEV In addition to the cost of all the adapters , which would be an unnecessary expense for most Tesla owners, providing such a charging kit would be intimidating to most mainstream owners. It would imply a complexity that doesn't exist for most owners. If someone has a need for a particular adapter they should be able to buy it, without encountering a box full of "what is that?"�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia In his weak defense, I've purchased the 5-20, 6-50, 14-30, 10-30, and made both a custom 5-20 to 5-15 adapter as well as a TT-30 to 14-30 adapter. I would not consider myself financially well off, but I have made a considerable investment to insure I can charge anywhere.�
May 16, 2016
TexasEV Fine, but you're an early adopter, not the typical Tesla owner going forward. I purchased them all too three years ago but I wouldn't want that to be required of everyone.�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia Fair point, but my adoption entry point (and yours) won't arguably change between 3 years ago, now, or for model 3 as it pertains to charging needs. In other words, I think we will always have two vying sides; the need to not overwhelm/confuse the owner with superfluous charging options (and added cost) and the need to provide proper charging means when required. Does every owner need the adapters we have? No, but they really do need to be made available for those that do.
However, it's silly to think we should include 10 or 8 or 6 of them with every car. Tesla did it right the first time and then for whatever reason(s), they backed away. This poll is all about bringing back the most needed one.�
May 16, 2016
AWDtsla That's what Tesla is charging. No way it costs that much to manufacture at scale. It should cost little more than a common household plug. I also gave the solution for that above.
You want to talk about $500+ of unnecessary expense, go see what I think of the UMC. Completely unnecessary. Yet everyone fights for the reason for that thing to exist.�
May 16, 2016
AWDtsla You could probably easily break even if the UMC was turned into a simple cable, with a large set of adapters on the supply side.�
May 16, 2016
TexasEV We're in agreement on this.�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia The UMC is the sacrificial lamb or the $800 gatekeeper to your $90k car. It might not be the charge cable you want, but it's the charge cable we need.�
May 16, 2016
AWDtsla I'd be perfectly happen with the 24' UMC/HPWC cable being rolled up inside the trunk with auto-retraction with a collection of plugs, let's say coming out of the passenger side. Keep the driver side for supercharging.�
May 16, 2016
Haggy I agree it wouldn't be necessary for most users. I don't agree that it would be overwhelming since it would come down to picking the one that matches the outlet on the wall. However, offering them separately is less overwhelming than not offering them. It was nice being told that a 14-50 made the most sense for me, but I had the option of using my dryer outlet, and I'd still get things charged overnight with plenty of time to spare on most days. I was able to buy the car and had almost three months to decide whether to install a 14-50 and I eventually did, but I felt comfortable ordering the car. I can't say for sure what would have happened otherwise, but I most likely would have put off buying the car until after I looked into getting an outlet installed, and my wife might have pushed me to get a different car before all that was done.
Factors to consider are that there are almost 400,000 reservations for the Model 3. Model 3 buyers are less likely to want to put in a new outlet than Model S buyers, but being told that an outlet might cost 2500 will be a deal breaker for some. We all know there will be a range of prices and that some will be tolerable, but when it turns out to be a deal breaker, nobody is going to call Tesla to tell them that a 14-30 might have changed things, because they won't know that it was ever an option or could be an option. They might be told explicitly by sales that a dryer outlet won't work.
All this means that a lack of demand (i.e. people asking for it) doesn't mean that people wouldn't buy it. Not offering it will cost sales. At the time it was dropped, Tesla had sold maybe 55,000 total Model S, so the volume was nowhere close to what they will need to support in the future. And finally, just because a person buys the car and doesn't buy a 14-30 doesn't mean the person would have bought the car had it not been an option. They want people to walk out of the showroom knowing that they already have a viable solution for charging, and have the option for an even better one.�
May 16, 2016
brianman On a related note...
I keep seeing round plugs at campgrounds and track venues. What's the V and A rating for those plugs? And what's the best option for Model S charging at such locations? The look something like this:
Amazon.com : Conntek Locking Adapter with 30 Amp 125 Volt Male Plug To 15/20 Amp Straight Blade Female Connector : Locking Plug Converter : Sports & Outdoors�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia I think the round ones are twist lock but I don't know the specs. I know there is a TT-30 which is a RV hookup found at camp grounds. It runs at 30amp but is only 110v. I used a 14-30 on my adapter so I wouldn't have to manually dial down the car or possibly forget to do so. Car doesnt care about volts, only amps.�
May 16, 2016
brianman I'd also like to see some thought put into a device/adapter/whatever that plugs into a dryer outlet and has a plug for the dryer to then plug into. The thought is that while the car is charging, the dryer would be unavailable. A simple solution for those that have an outlet that is in use some of the time.
Perhaps. Until FlasherZ tells me the world will catch fire when such a thing is used by mere mortals.�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia Someone will manage to start a fire with it and blame Tesla......
A better option would be a manual shunt. Or is that what you are describing?�
May 16, 2016
brianman The idea is to have it automatically prioritize plugged-in-car-that-needs-charging and make the dryer available otherwise.
Imagine you have two of the newer HPWCs connected to two cars. Now replace the second car with a dryer. Now add logic such that while the dryer is actively pulling "non-trivial" amounts of electricity it is promised that it will not be preempted by the car for at least an hour. The idea is that the power is "sticky" on the dryer until it's idle for at least an hour. (You don't want the car waking up every 5 minutes to trickle charge and preventing the laundry from finishing.)�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia I'm wondering what the electrical codes are for that. Essentially you are Daisy chaining two sockets right?�
May 16, 2016
brianman Kind of but not exactly.�
May 16, 2016
GoTslaGo Maybe it's time for a Tesla Dryer?�
May 16, 2016
MorrisonHiker Have you seen The Dryer Buddy?�
May 16, 2016
GoTslaGo I wonder if that would work for two EVs?�
May 16, 2016
Olle Since Tesla can remotely read the cars I'm sure they know exactly which adapters are used and how much.
I agree with this thread that it is a shame they discontinued 14-30. But 6-50 Is common too and better when you wire from scratch since you save the unused neutral wire. For this reason I would rather have wired my new garage with 6-50s instead of 14-50s if the Model S would have come with a 6-50 adapter. Any idea why they discontinued 6-50?
I have experienced when charging at vacation houses that while 14-30 is often available, it sometimes comes with the need for an extension cord when the dryer is in a room some distance away from the garage. How do you all solve this?�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia It's like he spoke, and all of the sudden you supplied him with a solution.�
May 16, 2016
supratachophobia I actually used the leftover 6-3 cable for the 14-50 install, to make a 12 foot 14-30 extension cord. It's all very above board, with proper ends and wiring and all. But you are so correct in that an extension is often needed for hard to reach dryer locations.
Oh, and while Tesla does know how you are charging, if you don't have the adapter to begin with, then you can't use it, and therefore it doesn't give a proper view of the actual need.�
May 16, 2016
FlatSix911 Great idea ...
�
May 16, 2016
brianman Bingo. Thanks!�
May 17, 2016
jerry33 I couldn't charge at home or in RV parks or at the B&Bs I stay at if I didn't have a UMC. It's completely necessary.�
May 17, 2016
AWDtsla I don't think you're understanding. Why would I suggest something that makes you or I not able to charge?�
May 17, 2016
Rocky_H What many(most?) Tesla owners do is have a 14-50 RV extension cord, since they can be bought off the shelf easily, and then they buy a few adapter cables that have a 14-50 receptacle on one side (for the extension cord to plug into) with a plug on the other for 14-30, 10-30, etc. for whatever outlet you are trying to use. It is very versatile, since you can use that one extension cord for everything, but does not automatically manage the current levels. You are using a Tesla 14-50 adapter on your UMC to hook up to it, so it will think it can draw 40A from it. If you are then adapting it to a 30A dryer outlet, you will need to MAKE SURE to turn the current down in the car to 24A or less.
If I were to do it over again, though, I would make my own extension cord. The real 14-50 extension cords are 3 thick wires and a thinner ground wire--pretty freaking heavy and stiff. The Tesla charging system doesn't even use the neutral wire, so you could eliminate one of those thick wires, and for a 30 or 50 foot run, that's some pretty significant weight.�
May 17, 2016
Wuggado? Sorry for the newb question, but I'm one of those who doesn't know a volt from an amp. There is talk earlier in this thread of ensuring that you "turn down the amps manually" with some of the solutions. Is that something you would have to be cognizant of with the Dryer Buddy? This seems like a perfect solution for me as I don't put enough miles on to require the faster charge of a 14-50, but can envision wanting something more than 110v when sudden plans to take a long drive the next morning come up.�
May 17, 2016
MorrisonHiker That's a good question. With the 10-30 and 14-30 options for the Dryer Buddy and the 10-30 and 14-30 adapter plugs from Tesla, you wouldn't have to adjust the amps manually since the Tesla adapters would handle that automatically.
I haven't read the specs concerning the Dryer Buddy to see if it automatically limits the 14-50 plugs to 30 amps. That would be a great feature if it did since then people wouldn't have to try to track down those elusive 10-30 and 14-30 Tesla adapters.�
May 17, 2016
AWDtsla LOL no they can't read my 50A extension cable or my ability to plug into 6 different kinds of North American plugs in addition to the 3 official Tesla adapters I have. They have no idea I assure you. See *I* don't have a problem plugging into 14-30 thanks to this home-built collection, and I thus have really no need to buy an official 14-30 either, probably as others have done which artificially deflates the demand for them�
May 17, 2016
davewill From what I can see it's just an adapter from a 30a plug to two outlets, with a volt and amp meter wired in. It is up to the user to not dry and charge at the same time, and YES, you would have to make sure the car didn't draw more than the plug could provide, either by dialing the car down or using a 30a UMC adapter.�
May 17, 2016
Rocky_H I'm pretty sure that would not work without dialing it down manually. The Tesla system with the 14-50 adapter on the cable would naturally be trying to pull 40A. If the Dryer buddy held the current limit at less than 30, the car would think it was a wiring fault and would halt charging.�
May 17, 2016
MorrisonHiker I could see the Tesla would still be trying for 50 amps but if the Dryer Buddy limited it to 32 amps, the car wouldn't ever be able to get 50 amps. Wouldn't the car just lower the amps to the lower value?
Fortunately, I now have 10-30 and 14-30 adapters so I won't be needing to test that myself.�
May 17, 2016
davewill There no way to limit the current drawn from a regular outlet like the dryer buddy has, except by shutting the power off completely if the draw gets too high, like a fuse or circuit breaker does. To limit the car's charging rate requires changing the pilot signal which is generated by the UMC, or other EVSE. That's how the UMC adapters work. They have a resister in them that the UMC checks. If it detects the resistance value that says, "this is a 30a adapter", then it changes the pilot signal to tell the car that 30a is the max it can draw.�
May 17, 2016
MorrisonHiker Thanks. Good to know. Probably best to stay away from the Dryer Buddy with the 14-50 socket then.�
May 17, 2016
davewill Yeah, I'd personally stick to the ones having 30a receptacles. However using the one with 14-50 is no worse than using one of the ubiquitous 14-50 to 14-30 adapters.�
May 17, 2016
Wuggado? [
Just to make sure I understand, even going with a Dryer Buddy with two 30a receptacles, if I don't have the Tesla 14-30 adapter (that they no longer offer for sale) then the car would still want to draw more amps than are available, thus causing a potentially unsafe situation? In other words, even one of those 'ubiquitous 14-50 to 14-30 adapters' wouldn't help matters if I have the Dryer Buddy with two 30a receptacles?
It's not that I can't pay $1800 for an electrician to install a 14-50 receptacle. It's just that it's more than I need and thus would much prefer the < $200 option to the $1800 option.�
May 17, 2016
KJD Yes, having a new 14-50 outlet installed is your best option really.
The other option is to have a 6-15 (15 amp) outlet installed and then buying one of these.
Tesla � NEMA 6-15
My guess is that the price is going to be pretty close the same either way.�
May 17, 2016
davewill Yes, exactly. Personally, I think using one of the non-Tesla adapters and dialing down the car is fine for occasional opportunity charging but not for daily charging where one might become complacent about checking the car's setting. Someone who needs to use a 30a circuit at home should either get his hands on one of the 30a Tesla adapters, or buy an EVSE can be configured for a 30a circuit.�
May 17, 2016
GoTslaGo If you're going to spend that kind of money (1800) you may be better off with one of the newer HPWC. We paid around 600 for a 14-50 (all inclusive). IIRC the newer HPWC is 550 for the unit itself, don't know about labor and ppwk. Can't imagine you would have to pay over a grand for labor and inspection.
Best to use something that the car can automatically recognize and dial the amps appropriately. Sometimes things reset with software updates, etc.. And you can find yourself tripping breakers (hopefully, other option is worse).
That's why I am hoping that Tesla reintroduces more plug options. I'm currently using a 14-30 adapter since the house we just moved to had a 14-30 "electric car charger" built in. I put the quotes in there because that was how the sales people labeled the outlet. It's a new build, so builders are still seeing 14-30 outlets as a "better" (?more economical) charging option instead of 14-50.�
May 17, 2016
Rocky_H The whole concept of the dryer buddy device scares me a bit. It is intentionally connecting 2X the devices the circuit is supposed to handle, with the "best intentions" to not use them at the same time, and if/when you do, then you hope the breaker flips open. Electric code is pretty specific on purpose that electric car charging is supposed to be on its own circuit, not sharing with something else. Even if someone can only fit a 20A 240V circuit dedicated to it, that would at least be safe and not too terrible of a charging rate for overnight.�
May 17, 2016
jerry33 No idea, but what I got out of your post was that the UMC shouldn't exist because it's unnecessary.�
May 17, 2016
jerry33 There is almost no cost difference between a 14-30 and a 14-50. AFAIK, builders put in 14-30 for dryers because that's what the dryer specs say.�
May 17, 2016
Wuggado? They do have a couple of options with a two way switch on it.�
May 17, 2016
GoTslaGo That's informative.
Too bad our builder didn't put in a 14-50. They put it in the garage near the garage door, where no sane person would put a dryer (it would block the second half of a 2 car garage). The house came with a washer dryer upstairs, and a 14-30 "electric car charger" in the garage.
We were pretty stoked to see it there, until we took a picture and analyzed the actual outlet (we figured initially it was a 14-50). Fortunately our service center came through for us.
So at least this builder (Lennar) considers a 14-30 an "electric car charger". Which is why I would still encourage Tesla to make the 14-30 and other adapters available. Some newer houses will have electric charging built in, just may not be the 14-50 like we would all like.
While a 14-50 would be ideal, I am just happy they did include one.
Edit:
Now that I think about it. They probably have a whole bunch of 14-30s lying around and learned that they can be used for electric car charging, and just stuck it in the garage. Guess it worked for us. We bought their house (obviously not just for the charger! Not that much of a one trick pony.... Or maybe...).�
May 18, 2016
Gizmotoy Has anyone here used one of these? We might be moving into a house that has the laundry in the garage. It's 14-30 and I had fortunately purchased Tesla's 14-30 UMC adapter when I took delivery. This looks really attractive. The house is a rental, so I wouldn't have to mess with approvals from the owner for electrical changes and such. I like the Plus version with the lockout switch that makes only one of the two outlets active.�
May 18, 2016
Olle I know, Camco is inefficient from a weight and stiffness/performance point of view. If we could get a 6-50 adapter from Tesla we could use a cable like this instead:
http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-Welder-Extension-25-Foot/dp/B002IZ99G6�
May 18, 2016
TexasEV If you have a 14-30 installed that means you have conduit in the wall from there to the panel. An electrician can replace the outlet, wire, and breaker to make a 50A circuit for you, for relatively little cost. The builder likely installed the 14-30 outlet because that's what many EVSEs plug into for use with Volt, Leaf, etc.�
May 18, 2016
Olle You know I meant they know what Tesla adapter has been used to charge and how often. Perhaps that knowledge is why a lot of adapters were discontinued. They also know when your 14-50 setup is dialed to to 24A or some other lower amperage so that's how often you use an "illegal" adapter...�
May 18, 2016
AWDtsla They have no idea why I've lowered my charging current. It might be because I'm checking the voltage drop of the service, or some other reason�
May 18, 2016
GoTslaGo Thanks! Good to know!
I assume this would make it easier to switch to HPWC as well?
When we get a second Tesla, I will plan to go to newer HPWC with daisy chaining capacity.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét