Jul 1, 2015
AmpedRealtor Someone just posted over at TM Forums that they were informed of a new policy by their local service center. Per that person's service center, annual service is still $600 but alignments are an additional $149. Alignments are no longer included. I am posting here to see if anyone else can corroborate this. This sounds crazy??
carlk | JULY 1, 2015
Just came back from the Fremont SC. A couple of disappointments. One is that wheel alignment is not included in the service. They are charging an additional $149 for that. When asked the service advicer confirmed it's a new policy. I asked them to do it anyway because I thought the steering was not as sharp as it was before.
The next disappointment is I got a rental instead of a loaner. I quess the timing is bad that they probably have sold out their inventories at end of quarter. He promised to swap it to a loaner when one comes in later. Lets see how it goes. I'd hate to drive the mini cooper 25 miles home and back tomorrow. Yes it made me to appreciate my S even more.�
Jul 1, 2015
mibaro2 Yes, it sounds crazy. I expect an alignment to be done with the annual service. I'll ask our SC and see if they are aware of any policy change (wonder if it a global policy change, or a local one at that SC).�
Jul 1, 2015
AmpedRealtor I've asked my service manager to check into this, but he was not immediately aware of any policy change.�
Jul 1, 2015
TexasEV And what about people who had prepaid for annual service?�
Jul 1, 2015
AmpedRealtor Those who pre-paid for service have a written contract that specifically states alignments are included. Access your MyTesla and you will see the pre-paid service contract along with your owner's manual, warranty papers, etc. I do not believe Tesla can unilaterally change the terms of that agreement to remove a benefit.�
Jul 1, 2015
Hodginator I scheduled a service for August and at the time of our discussion (last weekend), the alignment was still part of the standard $600 service.�
Jul 1, 2015
jbcarioca I surely hope that they would not change policy when we've already paid assuming alignment was included.
�
Jul 1, 2015
slevit1md This would be pretty upsetting, if true. I already thought the cost of the annual service was a bit of a rip off (and from what I've been reading, I'm not alone), but at least there was the alignment there as something they were guaranteed to do, even if nothing else is wrong. Since alignments aren't cheap anyway, I felt it helped to offset the cost some. But now, I really don't know what I'd be getting for $600, particularly since I have to drive about 130 miles to my nearest service center, and especially if they don't find anything that needs attention.�
Jul 1, 2015
Zarwin It's still in the service FAQ on the website:
Service Answers | Tesla Motors
What happens during my scheduled maintenance inspection?
During your annual inspection, our expert Tesla Service team will take your Model S through a bumper to bumper, roof to wheel inspection. The wheels will be removed and tires will be rotated. If wheel alignment is necessary, this will be taken care of during your appointment. Logs will be pulled and examined, and all systems will be tested for operation. The drive unit assemblies will be inspected, and the temperature management system will be checked. Your brakes will be inspected, and normal items, such as brake pads and windshield wipers will be replaced as needed. Please note that tire wear is not covered as part of the annual inspection or under the Tesla Service Plans or the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.�
Jul 1, 2015
MsElectric This IMHO further negates taking your car in for the odd year services where they don't perform any fluid changes. Even at $600 it was already twice as much as what our Mercedes dealer charged to service our V8 for the "minor" services that don't require major fluid flushes. Every other year our Mercedes service bill is under $200 so at $600 that is 3X more for an electric car that should require vastly less service.
I've said this before and I'll say it again... IMHO Tesla should do away with the same price for service no matter what you do and just bill you for what they actually do. Ironically car dealers are reasonable this way. I can see the $600 service making sense for the every 4 year services where they do a bunch of fluid flushes but certainly not the minor services done on odd years.�
Jul 1, 2015
dsm363 I'm getting my alignment done under warranty today with the prepaid service plan.�
Jul 1, 2015
sorka Alignment is a warranty issue for the first 20K miles with Toyota. Additionally, up until 20K miles, you can ask for one free alignment check just because you want it.�
Jul 9, 2015
tinm I did my 2nd annual service at the Scottsdale service center on Tues/Wed. They said my car needed alignment adjusted. They wanted to charge me the fee.
I protested. Pointed out the Service FAQ page. They backed down, gave it to me as part of the $600.�
Jul 9, 2015
Max* Damn... if alignment isn't included that might change how often I want to get my car serviced...�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor Suggest folks bookmark and/or print out this page in case it mysteriously changes in the future:
Service Answers | Tesla Motors
In this FAQ, it clearly says that alignment is INCLUDED as part of the annual service. It also states that you CAN transfer the pre-paid service plan to a subsequent owner, which some owners in the past were told is not possible.
Curiously, if you go to Tesla Service | Tesla Motors only, there are no links to the FAQ page. Could the FAQ page be outdated and no longer linked to?�
Jul 9, 2015
tinm Thanks for the link.
Let's memorialize the actual text on that page, as it reads on Thu Jul 9 2015:�
Jul 9, 2015
TexasEV I just looked at my pre-paid service agreement online and actually Tesla can change the terms to remove a benefit:
The regularly scheduled maintenance inspections shall include the following (subject to change by Tesla
at any time and without notice, in its sole discretion):
�
Vehicle inspection;
�
Replacement or repair at the time of inspection of normal maintenance items and wear and
tear
parts, excluding the Battery and tires;
�
Wheel alignment*; and
�
Tire rotation*.
I'm scheduled for my 2-year service on Monday. We'll see what happens.
�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor This seems onerous to me. I'm not sure how Tesla can legally remove a contracted benefit unilaterally without offering the other party the option to cancel the agreement and receive a pro-rated refund. Cell phone companies change their plans quite often, but when a change is made to your calling plan, you then have the option to cancel the remainder of the contract. Perhaps Tesla included that language to cover the addition of benefits, but would a court of law actually uphold the removal of benefits?
I'm sure we have lawyers in the house. Hello?
�
Jul 9, 2015
Electricfan Thanks for sharing that. More evidence Tesla service is going the dealership model route - take the customer for everything you can. And I'm glad I'm not the only one its happening to.�
Jul 9, 2015
qwk I'm not sure why anyone here is surprised. Instead of doing the right thing from the get go, Tesla seems to implement these ill-will policies, and then change them back to something reasonable after all of the outrage from customers. Makes very little sense.�
Jul 9, 2015
jaguar36 I bet they hired someone to head the service center division who came from a regular dealer, and he's trying to maximize profit the same way every other dealer is. This is even worse with a Tesla though since you can't take it to an indy shop for anything beyond basic stuff.
The good news is that an alignment isn't really a maintence task, assuming nothing is loose and you don't hit any curbs or potholes, it shouldn't need to be done.�
Jul 9, 2015
skboston Is the the beginning of the end of an amazing service from Tesla?
I wonder why they are taking the route of dealerships?
Alignment on a Tesla isn't much different than alignment on any other car and it costs anywhere from $80 to $100 in my area. I wonder what makes it so special to be 50% higher at Tesla SC?
All these little things Tesla adds/removes and monopoly and long waits on servicing the car will slowly start to turn owners away as it is starting to happen with me.�
Jul 9, 2015
rlang59 I think they may have added that language after the no transfer dust up a while back, but I can't remember for sure.�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor Tell that to my car. I had the alignment done twice in a 6 month period. Both times, Tesla adjusted to specs and it was way out of spec when it was brought back in for subsequent alignment. No potholes or curbs were hit. I drive very carefully. When the car was first delivered in 2013, it had to be aligned four times before it drove acceptably. All suspension components were checked, including bolt torque, and everything passed inspection.�
Jul 9, 2015
4SUPER9 I just took my baby in for service this morning. First time in 2 years. I do not have the pre-paid service agreement.
They told me that alignment was no longer included in the cost of the service, just as mentioned above. He specifically stated that the new policy went into effect on June 18th. I felt like I was hit with sticker shock given the high cost of the service as is. He saw the look on my face, then said since I made the appointment on June 16th, he would include it.
While I can see Tesla changing what is included with the service, they pretty much set the tone when I bought the car, and should honor that. They may have a legal obligation, given that's how they marketed it. Well, they honored it my case anyway.
For pre-paid service contracts, sure, they can put in language giving them the right to change anything at any time, but irregardless of whatever language they put in, if it is substantial, they would be legally obligated to offer reasonably equivalent options. For example (an extreme one at that), if they said that service now only includes wiper fluid and checking air pressure, that would obviously never fly under any reasonable interpretation of their contract. If they stated that alignment was included, but now it is not and costs an addtional $150, that would not seem reasonable (IMHO).�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor I emailed Jerome Guillen about this, but received the following in response:
I am out of the office until August 3rd.
If you are a Tesla customer and need assistance, please contact your local service center.
This doesn't sound good at all... seems like something is shaking up on the service side and nobody is in charge.�
Jul 9, 2015
dsm363 Or maybe he is on vacation.�
Jul 9, 2015
mibaro2 (Bolded part above is my edit.) I remember an incident when someone tried to transfer his prepaid service from one car to another (he crashed his initial car, and bought a replacement one). Tesla refused that saying the service was connected to the car, and could not be transferred to another car.
Was this the incident you were referring to, or was there another one?
I hope Tesla backpedals and puts the alignment back as part of the annual service.�
Jul 9, 2015
moorelin I just had my second annual prepaid service visit, and they went out of their way to include alignment.
I needed new tires and they only had Goodyears in stock. I decided to go with Michelins, which I got from TireRack and had installed at a regular tire shop. So when I said I was not going to go with their tires, they held off on the alignment and scheduled a new visit (yesterday, at no charge) to finish things off. Loaners both times. Completely satisfied.
And looking forward to the owners reception at the new Houston North Gallery/Service Center/Supercharger tomorrow evening!�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor To clarify, you have the pre-paid service. So from that standpoint, if nothing has changed, I'm happy because that's what I have as well.
However, charging an extra $150 for alignment on top of the $600 annual service represents a material increase in cost to $750 for what previously cost $600, and for a car that is supposed to require LESS maintenance than an ICE.�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor Service manager just called me (wow) to let me know that pre-paid service is UNAFFECTED by this policy change.
Somebody is watching... lol�
Jul 9, 2015
4SUPER9 That makes sense. Tesla has an odd habit of changing things on the fly. While I agree with most of the new way they do business, I believe that some of the old ways should remain. If they want to change a service policy, there should be an announcement and grace period. A statement released 30 days in advance, stating something to the effect of "Attention customers: Effective June 18th, 2015, annual services will no longer include... . Thank you for your understanding." At least this way, those thinking about a service or purchase can jump in before the change. Increased expenses are no fun, but surprises are just uncool.�
Jul 9, 2015
Max* I'm not sure they updated everything yet, which will lead to more confusion.
I still have 33 days to sign up for service, and I clicked on the "readme" and it still states that alignments are included.�
Jul 9, 2015
capt601 And has been stated many times, prepaid offers nothing extra other than a discount. Exact same wording for paying for annual service. Tesla is opening up a big can of worms if it is only for the prepaid option. They are already overcharging for maintenance .�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor I informed my service manager of the discrepancies on the web site, he shot off an email to the team to let them know.�
Jul 9, 2015
capt601 Except it needs to be done to almost all of us original owners on a yearly basis.�
Jul 9, 2015
Morristhecat I did not pay for pre-paid service, and just had my car in for it's 2nd annual service last week. I was a bit shocked to understand that they wanted to charge me an extra $187 (Can) more for an optional wheel alignment. Thinking that my tread wear was pretty even, I declined. Upon looking at the list of items that they did, it was noted that I declined, but they did it any way as "goodwill". At the time I was happy about it, but then I read here about this policy change. Interesting timing...
There are so many shops out there that do alignment for so much cheaper. Is the alignment on the Model S rocket science that only Tesla can do? Or can any alignment shop do that, just like a tire shop can change the tires?�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor There's nothing special to Tesla alignments as far as I know. But the Tesla service centers - at least the one in Scottsdale - have the newest alignment equipment.�
Jul 9, 2015
MsElectric I guess this is another benefit for getting the prepaid service package�
Jul 9, 2015
Max*
$475. Unless it used to be $450?�
Jul 9, 2015
MsElectric By the way do they do wheel balancing or is that separate?�
Jul 9, 2015
capt601 Actually no. Paying for annual service gives you the same service. When tesla tries to change that, they will open themselves up to a major consumer complaint and will be lambasted in media once again.�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor Not any more, clearly.�
Jul 9, 2015
yobigd20 There is no benefit to the prepaid service except giving tesla more money up front. The service is exactly the same whether it's prepaid or not.�
Jul 9, 2015
capt601 Not too clear. No distinction between prepaid and annual payment.
Annual and recall service
Tesla recommends that you bring your Model S to a service center for an inspection every year or 12,500 miles, whichever comes first.
Unlike gasoline cars, Model S requires no oil changes, fuel filter or spark plug replacements, or smog checks. As an electric car, even brake pad replacements are rare because most braking energy is regeneratively captured by the motor and returned to the battery. Our inspection instead focuses on tire condition and alignment, replacement parts like windshield wiper blades, and upgrades to Model S software.
To schedule an annual inspection, contact your nearest service center for an appointment. Where possible, we will make a loaner Model S available to you while your car is being serviced.
Each annual inspection is $600. For the best economy, prepay for annual inspections by purchasing a service plan online through your My Tesla account. Read Elon�s blog post about Tesla�s service and warranty program for more information.
Annual maintenance is recommended to ensure that your Model S is always in the best condition but even if you never bring it in, your warranty is still valid.
Click here to check if your car is affected by a recall.�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor No longer the case. Pre-paid includes alignment, pay-at-the-door does not unless you pay an additional $150.�
Jul 9, 2015
sorka ...you mean until the fix the wording to remove it.�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor The distinction Tesla is making is with the alignment. It was previously included with the $600 pay-at-the-door service, but is no longer included. That is the difference. With pre-paid service, alignment is included at $475 per visit. If you don't pre-pay, then the same service (with alignment) costs $750 now, $600 without alignment. The web site has not yet been updated in the needed areas to reflect the latest policy change.
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I was told by my service manager that pre-paid service includes alignment. I cannot speak to what Tesla may or may not do in the future. I was told the purpose of this change in policy is to get more people to buy the annual service.�
Jul 9, 2015
yobigd20 I would give them such crap if they tell me that. Plus I think if enough people complain they'll revert. Elon himself said $600 was too expensive for their yearly service and they were looking to reduce it. I bet he would be pretty pissed if he hears that they want to charge us more for stuff.�
Jul 9, 2015
AmpedRealtor I already tweeted him about this. Suggest others do the same.�
Jul 9, 2015
green1 So we now pay $600/yr for a set of wiper blades, and new batteries for the keyfobs? Sorry, I thought that $600 was an extreme rip off before, it's just gotten worse.
Tesla is becoming EXTREMELY customer hostile, refusing to sell parts to anyone, refusing to give repair info to anyone, charging way more than anyone else would for simple tasks, threatening people with legal action for sharing what little repair information they can glean... It's too bad nobody else makes a decent car, because if Tesla had actual competition there's no way anyone would willingly deal with this company.�
Jul 9, 2015
tinm Funny thing about the wiper blades. When I showed up for the 2nd annual service on Tuesday at the service center, I mentioned that I'd had windshield-smear problems with the replacement blades from the 1st annual service and could they please be sure to replace 'em etc and was told, oh wiper blades are no longer part of the annual service and I'm like, what? Wiper blades == the annual service, just ask any owner�
Jul 10, 2015
David_Cary Why anyone would pay $600 for the pre June 18th service is beyond me. Now it maybe that $600 is the cost for key fob batteries. I think I can get some on Amazon for $2....�
Jul 10, 2015
mibaro2 One of the reasons I got the prepaid service was the uncertainty of a price increase. Tesla effectively increased the price of pay-as-you-go annual service by $150 if the alignment is no longer included.
This same uncertainty applied to the extended warranty..those that bought it when they bought the car locked in the price. For others, that price could go up if they waited until they hit the 50k mile mark.�
Jul 10, 2015
R�B So I have my first annual appointment tomorrow (didn't get the prepaid service). What am I in for? Any way I can talk these guys into an included alignment if they try and get cute...?�
Jul 10, 2015
apacheguy Doesnt sound right. Glad I bought the 8 year service contract so I can hold them to it. A la carte doesn't have much leverage over this.�
Jul 10, 2015
jeffro01 So I presume you think the service centers time is worth nothing then? Ever owned a Mercedes or BMW and needed service? Before they started "throwing it in" (built into the price of the car now...) $600 was chump change...
Jeff�
Jul 10, 2015
green1 Sure I owned a Benz, it cost much less than $600 for an annual service. And that was with a high maintenance ICE under the hood, how much time do you think it should take a service centre to replace the key fob batteries and the wiper blades, and maybe a cabin air filter?�
Jul 10, 2015
Max* Don't forget they also re-torque the suspension!�
Jul 10, 2015
MsElectric Um. I disagree. Our Mercedes needs service annually or every 12K miles. Some of the annual services are minor and cost us less than $200 at the Mercedes dealer. This is to maintain a vastly complicated V8 engine and all the associated moving parts. About every 6 years we have a major service that costs about $800 but that requires quite a bit of work.
The $600 service charge for minor services where they change no fluids IMHO is absurd. An EV is supposed to cost less to maintain, not more.�
Jul 10, 2015
gizmoboy Have to say, as a seriously-considering-it potential new owner, I'm disspirited by these kinds of changes. Kind of wavering on my excitement for the Tesla based on a bunch of little things I've been reading like this and the center console debacle...�
Jul 10, 2015
Max* Depends what kind of mindset you are coming to the car with. If you want a 100% functional car 100% of the time, then Tesla of 2015 is not for you. If you're willing to have a few minor potential issues, which the SC will go out of their way to solve, and you want an awesome car, then this car is for you. I've had mine for a month, and yes, I've had a few annoyances, but I would 100% do it again.�
Jul 10, 2015
AmpedRealtor What's even stranger is that the $600 annual service DOES include an "alignment check", according to my local service manager. They still go through all of the trouble to put the car on an alignment bench to "check" it. Makes no sense to me, but I'm just a Realtor... lol�
Jul 10, 2015
sorka Almost all of the labor is getting it on the rack and getting the alignment system installed. After that, it's trivial to adjust toe especially if toe (front and rear ) are all that can be adjusted which is usually the case sedans.�
Jul 10, 2015
TexasEV Center console debacle? If you're wavering because of something to do with the center console, then perhaps this car is not for you. People buy this car because it's a long range battery EV. Instant torque, fun to drive. No engine, no oil, no gasoline, no transmission, no muffler, no catalytic converter, etc. And no dealers. Besides, people bought the car for two years without a center console, and most don't get that option now that one is available. The open space is part of the minimalist design and you can put what you want there.�
Jul 10, 2015
sorka This whole thing might be almost moot until the fix the DU failure issue. In tesla forum, there's a thread discussing DU replacement. Some are already on their third DU replacment. Since a free alignment is done each time the DU is replaced, that may be enough for most.�
Jul 10, 2015
sorka What do you mean refusing to give repair information? The entire factory service manual is online and you can pay to use it by subscription for personal use:
Welcome | Tesla Service
I've heard reports of Tesla refusing to sell certain parts, but I'm skeptical that this is most parts. In most states, various right to repair laws prohibit manufactures from making parts unavailable to individuals wishing to repair their own vehicle. In some states, manufacturers must make available specialized diagnostic tools if they are required for such repairs if they are not available through third party sources. If Tesla is really doing this, they are treading on very thin legal ice. I have a hard time believing it.
When MSs start getting out of warranty, if this is really an issue it will become far more public at that point. I hope it's not true.�
Jul 10, 2015
AmpedRealtor Have you actually tried to order a subscription to the service manual? You have to live in MA, otherwise no soup for you.�
Jul 10, 2015
jaguar36 I've got a BMW now, the annual maintenance was $600 less than a Tesla's (yeah its totally free) for the first 4 years. After that I get the it done for like $100 at an indy shop.
And the service manual is only available if you live in MA, and thats because the law forces Tesla to make it available there.
The marketing dept and Elon's "less maintenance than a ICE" is just marketing nonsense, right now its far more expensive to maintain a Tesla than a BMW/MB/Audi.�
Jul 10, 2015
green1 Not to mention that most of the repair manual is said to refer to diagnostic tools they won't release.
That site exists for only one reason, to try to avoid a lawsuit under MA right to repair laws. If there was any other reason it would be available world wide, and contain links to the necessary software to do the work.�
Jul 10, 2015
Lump I just checked my service records from when my DU was replaced, NO mention of alignment work done & this is the first time I have heard of this.�
Jul 10, 2015
yobigd20 An alignment is REQUIRED when a drive unit is replaced and therefore part of the drive unit replacement. It MUST be done because the entire suspension units are pulled out and reinstalled. It would be a a safety hazard NOT to do an alignment when a drive unit is replaced. That's how it was explained to be when I had my drive unit replaced.�
Jul 10, 2015
Lump Would the alignment be listed on the Service order\Invoice when the DU was replaced? Its not on mine!�
Jul 10, 2015
pimp-boy I had my drive unit replaced. The work order did NOT mention an alignment was done. They stated it was done, but my energy usage shot up from 290wh/hr to over 380hw/hr. I complained to them that was NOT done as the car did not track straight. They put it on the rack and it was ALL WHACKED! Either a retard did it incorrectly, or he lied and said they did it. After the alignment, my energy usage dropped very close to normal and the car tracked straight. Don't ever trust a service advisor. They're almost like salesman. Just my opinion.�
Jul 10, 2015
AmpedRealtor I always receive a printout of my before/after alignment with every DU swap. I've had three, so I should know... lol�
Jul 10, 2015
Lump Just so happens my car was in for service AGAIN today so when I picked it up I asked why alignment wasn't listed on the work order...I was told "it should have been", then they checked "their" computer & still no alignment listed, turns out they keep a detailed record hard copy of services performed off site & will search my records "& get back to me".
Noticed another discrepancy, several times when in for service my car has not received the latest firmware but my service order states "- Checked firmware version: Updated to latest version x.x " I went in with .239 & knew form the firmware tracker that .249 & .250 were available, so before even checking my car I asked what version does this SC have & what should my car have either installed or preloaded waiting to be installed & was told .250, we walk out to my car & sure enough I am still on .239. Not a huge deal but do I really need to check & verify EVERYTHING?
Maybe one day they will notice my car is Red & change the color from Grey & actually put in my license plate info in the contact header box on the service order...its only been 2 years.�
Jul 10, 2015
MsElectric So, trust but verify�
Jul 11, 2015
gg_got_a_tesla Really bummed to see the direction the Tesla service saga is taking. I'm from the camp that does not believe in being locked into 4 (or 8) prepaid service visits in a fixed 4/8 year timeframe (yeah, there's now leeway in timing the visits but, it's still timeboxed overall).
I'm planning on taking the car in roughly only once every other year given the fluid replacements at that time; an alignment then is a no-brainer.
So much for service not being a profit center. Warranty repairs are what they are: Tesla excels at providing great, free-of-course, service on that front (atleast while the car is under warranty). But, the rest - tires, wheel alignment, etc. - is quickly leaving a bad taste in the mouth.
Would someone attending TMC Connect please be kind enough to pose a question about service costs to Ricardo Reyes fwiw?!�
Jul 11, 2015
4SUPER9 That's exactly what I did. I was 1 month short of 2 years when I brought it it this week. I saw no need to bring it in earlier. Heck, I didn't even run out of washer fluid in that time!
^^^^^ Yes, please. Good idea.�
Jul 11, 2015
gizmoboy Don't pick a specific point in my post and attack it with reductio ad absurdum.
I'm speaking about a pattern of behavior by Tesla that, if it's indicative of a trend, is troubling to a potential owner (and should be troubling to existing owners as well).
The old "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" belittlement is beneath all of us here (or should be).�
Jul 11, 2015
Hank42 Wonder if this proposed NY legislation will push the issue any further - not specifically aimed at CARS, but MS is more "electronic device" than it is "Car" anyway:
New York: It's time to speak out for your right to repair�
Jul 11, 2015
gizmoboy If what you say is true, then I'd have no problem with it. What I'm concerned about is the possibility that these things I mentioned are signs that Tesla is moving away from a default position where "the SC will go out of their way to solve" to "if the customer really bitches about it, then we'll fix it (in most cases)" (or, in the case of the center console, "sorry, dude -- sucks to be you").
I had thought they were the former, and felt pretty good about ownership, but I'm starting to worry that recent trends may be signaling a trend toward the latter. Obviously, that'd be penny wise and pound foolish in an upstart like Tesla if they ever want to break out of the niche position they're in (and given that they are not yet cash-positive, they need to want that).
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I'm also concerned (as I posted).
However, I was intrigued by your comment that the prepaid service has flexibility. I'm a relatively high mileage driver (long commute), and as such do about 25K miles per year. I liked the cost savings of the prepaid plan, but having to do one every 6 months really shot the value in the head.
The sales rep said I should just do one a year, but the prepaid seems to indicate 12.5K miles or 12 months, whichever is sooner, as a requirement);. Is there actual documented flexibility as to when you use the prepaid plan's visits? One per year seems reasonable to me, but every 6 months seems way overkill.�
Jul 11, 2015
mibaro2 I was told that I could bring in the car anytime for an "annual visit". If I prepaid for 4 of them, then I could use those visits once a year (which I did on my first one, and had 44000km in one year). Or I could bring it in at 18 months, or 22months, etc.
I 'll try to find the link for the written documentation of it.�
Jul 11, 2015
gg_got_a_tesla There was an FAQ somewhere online about this, I believe.
To be clear though, the kicker here is that all 4 service "coupons" ought to be used up in 4 years flat although you have flexibility within that period for each of the visits.�
Jul 11, 2015
gizmoboy That would change my mind on that completely. Thanks!
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4 in 4 years I can live with (though many on this board consider even that to be overkill). I will see if I can find that in an official FAQ on Tesla's site. (A link is always welcome as well.)
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Ah, there's the rub. 4 years or 50K miles.
So at 25K per year, even if I only use 1 per year, it'll last me only 2 years. Which is odd to me because you're just paying for the service visits, but what it really does is tie you in the exact same way (12.5K miles per year = 4 years, but anything higher shrinks the time horizon).�
Jul 11, 2015
liuping I was told once a year is fine, regardless of mileage (I'm about 20k miles per year). So 8 visits in 8 years for me, since I paid for the 8 year plan.�
Jul 11, 2015
jerry33 I was told that too.�
Jul 11, 2015
AmpedRealtor Sounds like someone needs to get fired.
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I have an email from Jerome Guillen that states the owners can essentially do whatever they wish. You don't need to use the 4 services in 4 years, you can use each service every two years if you want. Here it is:
Dear Mr. [AmpedRealtor]:
Any customer who has paid for a 4-year service plan is entitled to 4 �annual service� visits. The customer can elect to bring the car whenever they desire: we recommend every year or every 12,500 miles (whichever comes first), but the customer are free to do whatever they essentially desire. They can bring the car every 18 months or every 6 months. In the end, they will receive the 4 �annual service� they have paid for. I hope this clarifies the situation.
Many thanks for your continued support. Best regards,
Jerome Guillen | VP, WW sales and service�
Jul 11, 2015
gizmoboy That would have been enough for me given what I had read about Tesla if I hadn't started following this whole alignment issue where the "understanding" (in this case, written rather than verbal) was changed over time.
I'd hate to pre-buy 4 or 8 visits and then they start enforcing the mileage limit and I'm paying more per visit (effectively) than if I had not prepaid.
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Now *this*, on the other hand, does deliver some peace of mind. Thanks Amped!�
Jul 11, 2015
sorka You have it in writing or you were just told that ??�
Jul 11, 2015
jerry33 I never bothered Jerome by requesting written confirmation, but for two years there has been no issue. Beside the two or three emails that Jerome has sent out to TMC members, Elon has stated that in both tweets and shareholders' meetings (they are somewhere on TMC and I'd look them up if the search engine was better). My opinion is that if some one is out to take advantage of you, words on paper aren't going to help because there will always be a way to weasel out of it. Going in once a year seems about right.�
Jul 11, 2015
Tupelo For what it's worth, I had my car serviced on June 25 at the Van Nuys Service Center, and my service order includes "Performed ride height calibration and four wheel alignment."�
Jul 11, 2015
Lerxt Yes, they do it if it's needed. I don't see what the issue is here.�
Jul 11, 2015
neroden Yep.
I warned about Tesla's abominable record of customer mistreatment back in 2012 and people like bonnie claimed I was totally wrong. I'm kind of gloating to be proven right, although I'm actually rather disappointed that they haven't fixed this BS.
It still looks like some people at high levels, such as Jerome, and others at low levels in the Service Centers, such as some of the managers I've met, want to do the right thing. But it's just one thing after another, so some people somewhere in Tesla are clearly pushing the other way, to do the wrong thing. Perhaps it's because Tesla's in a perpetual cash crunch, but it's appalling -- the company is really developing a nasty reputation for bait-and-switching. And it's so *pointless*. Just do the right thing, it doesn't cost *that* much.�
Jul 11, 2015
kuttakamina FWIW, the 4 year service agreement, even as of today, clearly says that it includes wheel alignment and wheel rotation included with your annual service.
That is a written contract and agreement that you paid for. Tesla cannot say "no" to that.�
Jul 11, 2015
Canuck How can you speak for everyone else? We both deal with the Vancouver Service Centre and all of my experiences have been really good without any hostility at all. Calling them "EXTREMELY customer hostile" sure seems over the top to me.�
Jul 12, 2015
dsm363 You certainly have been an unhappy with everything related to your dealings with Tesla (software license issue, the car, service) from day one it seems. I've had the complete opposite service experience at now 5 different service centers dating back to 2010. Not saying the company doesn't have issues but getting the car serviced hasn't been an issue for me at least so far.�
Jul 12, 2015
HankLloydRight Yes, except that as stated above, TM reserves the right to change what's included in the pre-pain annual service. Not that they would (they aren't), but the same contract says they can.�
Jul 12, 2015
AmpedRealtor To be fair, decoupling alignment from annual service at an additional cost of $150 is, in effect, nothing more than a price increase to $750 for the same service items that were previously included for $600. This is NOT bait-and-switch. It's just a price increase to those who did not purchase the pre-paid plan.
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I doubt very much they would ever do such a thing.�
Jul 12, 2015
HankLloydRight Yes, Mr. Obvious, that's why I said "Not that they would "
�
Jul 12, 2015
yobigd20 You know, having a car with screwed up alignment all the time and then charging extra for alignment service even when under warranty is basically like a scam.�
Jul 12, 2015
apacheguy I'm going to have service look at negative camber on the rear wheels in a couple weeks. I had annual done about a month ago and it seems really screwed up to me. I'll see what they say but there's no way I'm going to be charged for it. I have the 4+4 and will absolutely hold them to the contract.�
Jul 12, 2015
TaoJones Hear, hear. And agreed, even.�
Jul 13, 2015
AmpedRealtor So we agree, yes? Might try losing the attitude.�
Jul 13, 2015
breser If they have really removed alignment from the Annual Service that's really disappointing. It was one of the things that was used to justify the high cost of this service to me. I'm actually having my first "Annual Service" (I'm nearly 17k miles, appointment was made when I was slightly past 12.5k) in 2 weeks. I have mixed feelings on if this service is really worth it, this doesn't help me feel comfortable about forking over $600 to Tesla.�
Jul 13, 2015
yobigd20 I asked an employee today who confirmed this. "Yes this is what Tesla is pushing for [not including alignment anymore]".�
Jul 13, 2015
Cyclone I'd be find with that decision if they made the rear have less negative camber or have it at least user-adjustable without aftermarket parts. I've been surprised how many Tesla's go out of alignment. But we'll see how mine does. I'm glad I went ahead and got a lifetime alignment on mine. Something tells me I'll be needing it.�
Jul 14, 2015
Andyw2100 I can't speak for gizmoboy, but I expect that it's not the actual center console itself, but rather the way customers were treated that would cause him to reconsider. Who wants to purchase a $100,000-plus car from a company that doesn't honor its commitments to its customers?�
Jul 14, 2015
gizmoboy Bingo.�
Jul 15, 2015
TexasEV My car was just returned from its two-year prepaid annual service and the alignment was included. It was also de-creaked in the A pillar and pano roof bar, and the early version floppy floor mats were replaced with the nice thick stationary ones. Wonderful service.�
Jul 15, 2015
mibaro2 I talked to my SC yesterday, and they said that there was a change in policy. Nothing has changed for the prepaid service. The prepaid service will include an alignment.
The service for those that didn't pay in advance will include an alignment check, but not an alignment. So if it needs an alignment, and you want it done, it will cost you extra.
So it seems to be a global policy change, or at least North America.�
Jul 15, 2015
kuttakamina Sorta happy to hear that .. prepaid service was sorta not worth it. It's more "worth it" now I feel.
So per service it's $475, alignment can run $100-$150 easily. So the real cost of a service now is $325.
.. and this is why ladies and gentlemen, I ponied up and bought the service!
Also, if I was buying a used Model S, I'd feel more comfortable if the seller said "Hey it was serviced when Tesla said it should have been serviced".
What I can't make up my mind about is .. should I get service for 8 years or 4 years! The first 4 years, is understandable. But 8 years later, the car will probably be worth $20K. Not sure if spending $2k is worth protecting $20K.
Or you could just wing it with $1.2K (2 services) .. hmm! It's a $700 difference. Grrr.! (not to mention, extended warranty IMO is a must on this car).
Thoughts?�
Jul 15, 2015
MsElectric So for the minor service years (years 1, 3, 5, etc.,), if it no longer includes alignment, what are they doing for $600?
Prepaying for the services definitely seems to be the way to go. The $600 service I thought was overpriced at what it was but it seems even more so now with alignment excluded. The only bad part about prepaying for the services is that if you have a 3 year lease, you are wasting away the 4th year service.
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You are one smart Kuttakamina!�
Jul 15, 2015
kuttakamina I'm smarter than I look huh? WOOF!!
By lock in, do you mean the "extended warranty"?
There are three things to consider there,
1. Unlike service plans, I have 4 years to decide on the extended warranty, and 4 years of interest on $4k is atleast 25 cents, 12.5 cents after tax.
2. Tesla is the guarantor of that extended warranty. If Tesla files for bankruptcy (not unthinkable given the headwinds they may face), that warranty will be worthless - of course if that happens we have bigger issues anwyay. Even if it isn't a bankruptcy, the headwinds most likely means additional pressure on service centers to cut back on their excellent service.
3. In 4 years, while the price of that extended warranty will most likely be revised upwards, but Tesla may have a better 'repair' network, and may allow for third party extended warranties, probably pushing the price down - a counter balance force that most likely means the price won't be revised upwards significantly. Plus there will be a lot more 4 year old MS's by then.
8 years is a very long commitment for a car. And well, every car I have owned, I have never bought extended warranty on it. In the most likely event that the car is issue-free for the first 4 years, the probability of an issue arising in the last 4 years is low (not zero).
So .. long story short, I'm gonna risk it by delaying the extended warranty purchase. I may regret it, but for a 4K profit, vs. a 1K upwards price revision risk, the risk is justified. And most likely I will know at the 2 year mark whether or not this car will need the 4K expense or not.
One additional thing to consider .. If I buy 8 years of service now, and If I trade in the car in 3 years for another Model S, I will receive a pro-rated refund for the remaining visits. If I sell the car privately, the service plan transfers to the new owner.
The reality is, I will most probably never trade in my blootiful to Tesla. Mostly because their trade in offers are so ridonkulously low .. ! So I have to assume the service plan is burnt money. Grr.. this decision is so hard!�
Jul 15, 2015
HankLloydRight I got paranoid and went for the whole 8 year plan mostly for the promised "hardware upgrades" that later vanished. At least I'm getting more value now that the alignment is still included.�
Jul 15, 2015
CmdrThor The main question though is alignment still included only for people who ALREADY purchased prepaid service before the policy change, or will it be included with all future buyers of the prepaid service? My money is on it is only included for people who bought before the policy change.�
Jul 15, 2015
kuttakamina Disclaimer: Everything below is lies. Consult your lawyer, do not listen to me.
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1. The current contract says "alignment is included".
2. It also says "any changes must be agreed to by both parties".
3. It also says "tesla can change what is included at it's sole discreetion"
#3 and #2 contradict each other. #3 will not stand in any court. Tesla HAS TO honor the contract - unless it files bankruptcy. Even then, wiggling out of that clause will be very difficult unless its the next fisker (unlikely). Remember, you can write whatever the hell you wish in a contract. Doesn't mean all of the contract will be honored. That is why you always have a clause like "other provisions stand if ..". For instance, I can say in a prenup, "if you get fat I owe you no child support" - its not valid even if she signs it. A unilateral mod to a contract is NEVER valid, it's merely there to act as a deterrent to majority of the sheeple. .. anyway, I could go on .. but the #3 clause is invalid.
So long story short, while #1 is true, my recommendation is to lock in the contract that includes the service plan.
Lock in atleast for 4 years .. the 8 years, I'm still confused about!
Don't forget, as of now, even tire rotation is included�
Jul 15, 2015
HankLloydRight They told me that since I'm using non standard tires, they won't touch my wheels or rotate my tires. I know other people have had the opposite experience.�
Jul 15, 2015
MsElectric I think that is very smart to have that peace of mind... We plan to do the same when we get our Tesla. Even if you decide to sell your car before the 8 years are up having that coverage will help you sell it. We'll pay up front and lock in the cost of the service visits as well as the cost and availability of the bumper to bumper factory warranty for 8 full years. I've discussed the warranty aspect on a different thread but current CPO policy limits us to considering a private sale so we can get additional years of warranty coverage than the "only" 4 years offered by Tesla with no ability to pay more for an extension.
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Wait what! Did you get 22" super extra low profile tires? :tongue:�
Jul 15, 2015
kuttakamina Sadly, you're SOL there. The service contract says clearly that you must abide by the owner's manual. The owner's manual specifies exactly the kind of tire you need on the car page #136 on https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/touchscreen_6.0_das_model_s_owners_manual_na_r20140926_en_us.pdf.
Sorry, but this is why I don't do crazy stuff with my car. Even swapping the wheels for TSportline, Vossen, or putting XPel on, technically means, you are giving Tesla wiggle room in the service and warranty contracts.
Not fair, but totally legal.
The BEST thing to do is, buy the service plan, and stick with the owner's manual. You do your part, Tesla should do theirs.�
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