Feb 9, 2012
Fr23shjive Do you like it? Were you disappointed? Comments?�
Feb 9, 2012
Citizen-T Love it. Interested to see how it ends up when all is said and done.�
Feb 9, 2012
Fr23shjive I think it looks good but Im a little disappointed. I would've preferred traditional doors in the rear. The rear doors make it look kind of gimmicky to me.
I would still get the Model S over the Model X.�
Feb 9, 2012
smoothoperator I think the Model X looks more like a hatchback than a luxury suv... The Falcon doors make the car look almost cartoonish, if they were going to that route I would have preferred that all 4 doors be falcon style. The integration of the touchscreen looks unfinished and something that you would find on the TV show pimp my ride.....I hope this is not the future of the Tesla "design language."�
Feb 9, 2012
Odenator Yeah, I'm a little dumbfounded on its looks as well. The front and back look like they stretched out a Model S chassis to make it look taller but not in a good way.�
Feb 9, 2012
EVNow I think the 7 1/2 ft. vertical clearance makes this impractical for many. They should get rid off the falcon doors if it can't be made optional ...�
Feb 10, 2012
Bearman I really like it.
If the doors wont fit my garage opened up i can always load the passengers outside
�
Feb 10, 2012
Fr23shjive If you had the option between conventional doors in the back or falcon doors, would you still take the falcon doors?�
Feb 10, 2012
adhawan I think the so-called "Falcon Wings" were just an attention grabber, but in reality a huge oversight. They are a deal breaker for a significant amount of buyers first of all due to the required overhead garage space which many do not have (aka. outside Southern California). The second reason, is the inability to carry a roof rack. How many people do you see with SUVs/minivans with Thule boxes, Bike racks, Ski/Racks, and Kayaks etc.. on the top? One cannot call the Model X an SUV without roof loading. Also the complexity, crash safety and evacuation, and hassle of all this wing business is not to be overlooked.
I also personally think that the back looks pretty frickin awful too. Look like a BMW X6 or even Pontiac Aztek. Perhaps it was in the name of aerodynamics or whatever, but I'm ashamed that they call this egg a Tesla SUV. What happened to maximizing cargo room?�
Feb 10, 2012
Bearman I think so yes but i will have to see it in first hand. I believe since the car has a slim design regular doors would make entry cramped especially if you have to help kids in the back get buckled up, with regular doors you risk the passengers slam the large doors in to a vehicle parked next to it. Sliding minivan doors are very practical but they wouldn't fit on a design with a sloping roof and does not feel very premium.
We will see what they feel like in person and if it changes my mind.�
Feb 10, 2012
zack I love their enthusiasm. Always have. If you analyze what they were attempting to do and what they achieved you can argue that they proved, once again, that you can't be everything for everybody. But you do have to admit that it would be interesting to see if a kayak would fit inside with the two rows down. Elon said a queen-sized mattress would nearly fit inside. And a long board (I assume he meant a surfing board, which wikis out to 9-12'.) Sure, yep, the doors didn't exactly fold into two little wings on top of the car. But they did form a ceiling and wall that could provide protection from the elements should there be a downpour... and you could stand up to get things done inside the car before departure, increasing comfort in some situations.
I missed two things that I flew out to hear in person. 1] the price. 2] the range. Was I distracted by something, or did Elon simply leave these details out?�
Feb 10, 2012
WhiteKnight He left them out. Overall his talk was pretty sparse on details. But on the website it says 60 Wh and 85 kWh battery options and 4wd is an option so pricing should start around $60 K and go up from there.�
Feb 10, 2012
Lyon I like it quite a bit. I'm a little concerned about the falcon doors being able to open in some parking garages. There are couple that I use periodically that are just barely high enough for the suburban to drive in. Anything over 7 feet isn't going to work.�
Feb 10, 2012
Hasse If the falcon doors are opened by electric motors one could expect the possibility to open them partially (3/4) or perhaps a sensor like a parking sensor that stops the door just short of the ceiling. Doubt that they havent thought of the possible problem.
In my eyes it looks like a love child between a Cayenne and a Prius at first glance
Just my �0.02�
Feb 10, 2012
StephRob I asked one of the designers up on stage what the range would be and he said just slightly less than the Model S, maybe 5% or so due to the increased weight of the larger body.
The falcon doors make quite a statement! I'm not sure how practical they are. They'd take some getting used to I think, but pretty cool. I put a deposit down on a production model - #17. How often am I on such the automotive cutting edge? Never until now!�
Feb 10, 2012
Mitrovic I like it a lot!
Much better then I thought! Love the Falcon doors. They are much more practical then standard doors. Sliding doors are also good, but this looks much more impressive. If you have kids and you have motorised rear doors, you can never go back to classic doors!
I guess I will skip the Model S and reserve the Model X as soon as possible!�
Feb 10, 2012
rabar10 I've noticed some comments here and elsewhere disparaging the sloping rear of the Model X, wishing for a more boxy rear-end, and also others wishing for a wagon version of the Model S.
While I understand the pure aesthetic side of the argument, more boxy vehicle designs pay too much of an aerodynamic (and therefore range) penalty for a first-generation EV, when range and battery cost is still such a critical issue. This restricts the Tesla 'design language' for the foreseeable future. I don't think we'll see aerodynamically-inefficient Tesla vehicles for quite a while.
The only other EV option with a more traditional boxy SUV style is the Toyota RAV4 EV, coming soon.�
Feb 10, 2012
Robert.Boston I strongly prefer the long, powerful lines of the Model S, but I think they've done a good job translating that look into the taller Model X. Not the car for me, but a competitive entry vs. the Q7 and 5 Gran Tourismo.
There's going to be a gag reaction when the pricing is released, and TM did a poor job preparing people to hear it. The press is citing $50-$70k. They're wrong. TM is only offering the 60kWh and 85kWh battery, so they cheapest the X could possibly be is $68k base (before tax credits); more likely, TM will need to charge more for an X than an S to preserve margins, because the production cost has to be higher. I think we're looking at $70k (pre-tax) entry, running up to $120k for the Performance AWD Signature.�
Feb 10, 2012
Mycroft For an SUV, I think it's great! When I first saw the doors, I thought meh. But after seeing the inside from the Gigaom video, I can really see the benefits. That thing looked VERY spacious inside!�
Feb 10, 2012
Mycroft RB, Tesla has always been horrible at price preparation. A serious weakness IMHO.�
Feb 10, 2012
AndrewBissell Partial cross-post from the Investing thread:
Tesla Motors, Inc. (TSLA) Pre-Market Chart - NASDAQ.com shows TSLA down 2% ish in pre-market trading so perhaps we can use this to quantify the reaction to Model X as "mildly under-meeting expectations" (remembering there was a huge run-up in share price in the lead-up to the Model X unveil.) now have to see how real trading sees it.�
Feb 10, 2012
NigelM I "kinda' like it. Doors are very cool but I have a hard time seeing how to keep out the rain when we have our tropical summer rainstorms. Also worried that the height simply won't fit the amount of covered we have locally and/or parking in my garage. FWD is a plus, but I can only see the price being north of the Model S so I'm 99.9% certain I'm not going to change my plans in that regard.�
Feb 10, 2012
dpeilow The falcon doors are a solution looking for a problem IMHO. Motorizing adds weight, complexity, potential to fail, potential to hit things or trap kids' limbs.
At this stage of the game they don't need to be wasting engineering resource on making many iterations to get stuff like that to work. It's the kind of thing I would more likely expect from Fisker.�
Feb 10, 2012
Rifleman I am still not sure what to think of the Model X. I don't dislike it, but it does not scream "Buy Me ASAP!" to me like the Model S does. I definitely would not consider this an SUV (When I think SUV, I think Chevy Trail Blazer or Ford Explorer). I would not classify it as a crossover either, but it is closer to this category than it is to an SUV. The car that it actually reminds me the most of is the Honda Crosstour (add gull wing doors and a third row to the crosstour, and you would have essentially an ICE Model X.) I think that the Model X is actually a new class of vehicle, and cannot be compared to traditional SUV's, Crossovers, or Minivans.
As far as the doors, they are undoubtedly cool, but they make this vehicle a no-go for me due to the low overhead clearance of my garage door ( I would not be able to have both the car doors and the garage door open at the same time) They also seems to add allot of complexity to the design, and create additional failure points. I do understand why they are on the model X, however. With the low ground clearance, three rows of seating, and open center console area, all the model X would need is sliding doors, and it would be a full on mini van. Mini vans are many thing, but cool is not one of them, and since Tesla has worked hard to build an image as the "Cool car company", building a true mini van is simply not an option. The "falcon doors" are tesla's way of saying "Im as practical as a mini van, and your friends will not make fun of you for driving me"�
Feb 10, 2012
zachster looking at the skateboard with the 4WD option, I'm a bit disappointed when looking @ the front 150HP motor...I love the compact nature of the PEM/Motor inline with the back axle. It looks like they went another way up front and didn't incorporate the same compact design and instead suspended the motor higher over the axle, making it look more like a typical ICE motor placement. Does anyone have a guess about why?�
Feb 10, 2012
nick_083 Very much with you here. I do like the looks... but I would much rather have "normal" doors. There are simply too many issues, like reliability, snow / rain / frozen doors issues and height clearance in garages or parking lots.�
Feb 10, 2012
PV4EV After looking through the photos and videos, here's my personal take on the Model X, with some questions :-
FALCON DOOR THOUGHTS :-
� I wish they have been brave and gone with full width 'falcon' door. See my mockup� But the design of the folding falcon door has the potential to cause problems.
� Do the doors rising / opening have any form of detection for obstructions ? .. are they going to power themselves into low garage ceilings, or up into remote-control garage doors? or leave a nice door impression on the car parked next to it ?
� Do the doors have some sort of automated seal that inflates to seal the door from wind noise ?
� Will the automated door have any rim sensing of obstructions around its closing edges ? I once had a very bad experience in a ford GT40 when the roof section of its suicide door nearly split my skull �
� What happens if there's rain / snow on the roof top and the falcon door tips it all into the car ? Have they designed around this problem ?
� I know that Elon mentions that the overall height of the Falcon door is no more than a raised hatch on an Audi Q7, but this could actually be more than 8ft by the looks of things.
PERFORMANCE VERSION ?
� On the gigaom video interview Elon mentions (at 4m30) that its quicker than a 911C4 but adds "it will still go zero to 60 miles an hour in about 4.4 seconds, and that�s not even the Performance model". Sounds very interesting to me ! Since the Model X is essentially a Model S platform with an additional motor, I would have thought that a 'performance' version will be seriously quick. Not sure how many soccer moms would buy that though !
Hands-on video with Tesla Cleantech News and Analysis
MODEL S - 4WD version ?
This seems logically possible given the shared platform between the Model X / S. Hmm, a Model S with 4WD from twin motors - yay
VIRTUAL WING MIRRORS / BULLET CAM �
� Bullet cams replacing big wing mirrors would be welcome by many car manufacturers for aerodynamic reasons amongst others, but existing regulations prevent using bullet cams and screens. However, Elon mentions that if they were used the image would be shown on "the screen". If this was on the giant central screen, this would feel very odd. They could be displayed either side of the main dash instrumentation to give a more normal L/R feel.
� A SOLUTION ? How about using a thin film bright OLED screen, placed on the area of a side window glass that the driver normally looks through to see the wing mirrors. The image displayed would show the view from the Bullet cams ... (hmmm, this seems patentable �)
THE GIANT TOUCHSCREEN ..
� I've not been anywhere near a Model S, but I am curious to know if its any more protected than a 17inch laptop screen ?
� � and will it have any controls on it that a young kid could 'play' with as you're driving ?
And finally, being a watch collector, I noticed Elon was wearing an analog watch with a big T logo on it !
This kind of full width falcon door mockup would make me slap down an order today ... :-
�
Feb 10, 2012
ckessel I'm rather baffled by all of the people concerned about the height of the doors. Do you live in munkin houses or something? The standard ceiling is 8'. I suspect people think the doors go far higher than the really do. The doors don't look to reach any higher than the height you'd need to put a tallish bag of groceries on top of the car, like a tall wine bottle or large sized cereal box.
The bit about snow I can understand. I'm sure rain just runs off through rain gutters, same as opening the trunk/hatchback.
The doors make access really nice. I liked how people could stand up and walk out. That'd be very convenient for anyone older that stooping or scooching along the back seats to get in and out would be painful. I don' t really like it that much, but there are very few SUVish things I do like. I dislike SUVs in general. My wife's Acura RDX looks pretty good, but that just brings it to "meh" status on looks for me so "meh" is probably as good as my reaction would ever be to an SUV.�
Feb 10, 2012
efusco I think it's a legitimate concern. I have a garage with a nice tall roof, but can tell you that I think those doors would hit the garage door opener where it hangs down--if it misses them it won't be by much. And while I can open the hatch without hitting my garage door (which is lower than the ceiling), it also is a close call. But it has the advantage that i can control how fast and h ow far that hatch goes up and can stop it if it's going to hit (as when I'm in an unfamiliar garage).
Anyway, I don't think, on average, the doors would be a big issue in real life for most people. That said, I think it wil be something that people will say "That won't work for me" and walk away from the car without much further consideration. it's not like you can take it home and try it out for a week or so to see if it works for you. Add to that the fact that there's no easy way to attach a roof rack/cargo box, bike rack to the roof and I think you're going to have a lot of people look at it and say"that doesn't offer me what I want out of an SUV".�
Feb 10, 2012
ElSupreme I am pretty sure that Tesla is maxing out the instantaneous current draw from the batteries to get 4.4 in the S and X. I don't think any amount of motor HP is going to get any better. Only a larger battery, or different chemistry will get them further.�
Feb 10, 2012
Trnsl8r I like the idea of non-traditional doors, the wide unobstructed opening seems really practical. I would, however, have preferred doors that slide up, rather than fold up. Imagine a regular mini-van's sliding door function, only going up and over the car. Not sure if that makes sense or is feasible, but that would have helped with the issue of height and rain.�
Feb 10, 2012
Trnsl8r MotorTrend had this about range:
Read more: Tesla Model X Prototype Preview Ride - Motor Trend
Not sure if that is based on their own calculations or if they got it from someone.�
Feb 10, 2012
NigelM /\
I read that also...sounds too specific for them to have done the calculation on their own.�
Feb 10, 2012
EVNow The problem is really with garage door openers than the ceiling itself. Our garage is taller than 8' - but the garage door opener hangs down to the level just above (?) the opened door. I suspect almost all garages are that way.
Infact, it looks like even in Elon's garage the door would have hit the opener if it was not in the middle of the car. In 2 car garages with a single door, the opener would be in the middle of the garage and the wing will hit it if it is below 7' 6".�
Feb 10, 2012
smorgasbord I wouldn't be surprised if they hold off on pricing for a bit. Assuming we're looking at an 18 month Model S to Model X first delivery, they could update (both?) with better battery technology.�
Feb 10, 2012
NigelM My garage ceiling is 8' 6". The lowest part of the door mechanism is the guide bracket in the center of the door which comes down to 6' 11", but otherwise the door itself is 7' 2" from the floor across the whole width. Surprisingly, the tailgate of my wife's Mountaineer opens to 6' 6" at the highest point.�
Feb 10, 2012
richkae How many of you have tried to sit in the 3rd row in a regular minivan?
It is usually difficult to get in and out of and you force the mid-size children to go back there. If you need to seat more than 5 people, this is a huge step forward. You sacrifice roof racks, but I personally have dealt with the annoying 3rd row many many times, but have only once or twice dealt with a roof rack. For my bicycles I greatly prefer a hitch mounted bike rack. I don't care about the roof rack.
I am eager to see one in person.�
Feb 10, 2012
Waverider Motor Trend has an odd definition of "stratospherically priced."�
Feb 10, 2012
Waverider Some misc. thoughts about the X:
Steering wheel apears to have touchscreen type controls for volume, track skip, and calling. That doesn't seem very intuitive for an application where you shouldn't be looking down to see what you're pressing. Coolness getting in the way of good humaninterface design I think.
The center console is an armrest transitioning into a bucket between the seats. Better than what we've seen so far on the S, but I'd still prefer to have cup holders and other storage for small things there instead. Would be good for throwing a purse or whatever though.�
Feb 10, 2012
AnOutsider Nice mockup PV4. I, too, would buy that over the current doors�
Feb 10, 2012
mt2 Imagine sitting in the second row seat and closing the door in the rain. As the door closes, your knees and your back will get soaked. And you have no ability to close the door any faster.�
Feb 10, 2012
nk126 Getting in and out of the third row in the prototype last night was nearly impossible for me, a 5'11" male, due to lack of room between the front of the rear seats and the back of the second row.. BUT, the second row of the prototype was not sliding fore/aft, and I was told that it will in production models. This could help quite a bit.�
Feb 10, 2012
augkuo so how would a kayak/ski/bike rack work on the X? Don't open the rear doors?�
Feb 10, 2012
Fr23shjive Elon tweeted that they have a solution for ski storage with the falcon doors.�
Feb 10, 2012
Krandon I feel like the Model X design makes some major strides forward in the automotive industry, but Tesla still didn't sell it to me.
They definitely should have focused more on the control and responsiveness of the dual motor AWD system. This is a serious performance upgrade, offering world-class acceleration and a better turning radius in a big vehicle. (the video mentioned it being tighter than a mini cooper, but the 12,500lb Mitsubishi-FUSO FE125 boasts the same thing). Hopefully some promising stats will surface once Alpha builds hit the road.
Also, the way Tesla managed to replace traditional side mirrors with non-intrusive video feeds is amazing. I know that it's pending regulatory approval, but the drag reduction, ease of visual cross-check, and possibility of traffic alert/recognition that this system provides is really the sort of next-generation feature that people expect in an EV. "Man--my car's so old it still has side mirrors" is the kind of comment drivers could be making a decade from now. I like that ModelX went there and brought it on a non-concept car (see: Ford Vertrek)
As far as the unveiling presentation goes, the soccer-mom focus on how easy it is to get in/out of and the storage space was way overdone IMO. It caters to geriatrics and parents of infants. I haven't seen any market studies, but I imagine that relatively few people will select a ModelX (~$100k fully loaded) over an Audi Q7 ($60k fully loaded) because it's easier to unbuckle the kids. Elon does have five boys and disposable wealth, so I can't fault him for catering to his needs.
The falcon wing/doors don't work for me either. Despite the "many iterations" it's still an inelegant solution. Seems like way too much engineering just to be able to say "It's not a minivan." At best, modify it to full length (thanks PV4EV) or offer standard doors as an option for more SUV-minded folks. My biggest gripe with the falcon wing doors is the wide arc it cuts once it reaches waist height. Did anyone else notice how it almost clipped the ModelS in the demo video? Click this link and jump to about 6:30 and you'll see what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbDdJGpNJpQ Looks way worse than the click & drag demo at http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx
All I can come up with for now. Jury's still out, but I'll be looking forward to new updates.�
Feb 10, 2012
ckessel I have absolutely no idea how you get that impression. The door completely covers the area like an umbrella. I seriously doubt the designers are that stupid. The bay area Tesla is in isn't exactly a dry climate. They're familiar with rain.�
Feb 10, 2012
ElSupreme You realized that those two cars were 'close parked' where you probably wouldn't be able to get out or in of either car with traditional doors. As an avid 'close parker' You really have to be ~18" away from the other auto to squirm out of a traditional door.�
Feb 10, 2012
NigelM But sometimes the driver wants to get out the car....:wink:�
Feb 10, 2012
vfx That's about what JB said. Heavier weight but range augmented by having two regen systems.�
Feb 10, 2012
vfx Also did the 3rd row. 5"11" and equally wide�
Feb 10, 2012
efusco Range is not augmented by 2 regen systems...one is all you need unless you routinely exceed the capacity of the one motor...and that seems highly unlikely, if there's a limit it's going to be at the inverter or battery level, not the motor level.�
Feb 10, 2012
vfx I didn't make it up.�
Feb 10, 2012
efusco Somebody did...it doesn't make sense unless you exceed the regen capacity of one motor... glad to hear how that reasoning is flawed.�
Feb 10, 2012
shark2k Based on only what I have read on this forum, regen is limited by the fact that the cars are RWD. With the cars being AWD more regen is allowed, therefore allowing more range to be recovered. Not saying it will get you a lot more range to make up the reduced range cause of the weight, but there have been plenty of threads where people talked about the advantage of AWD and increased regen.
-Shark2k�
Feb 10, 2012
tdelta1000 I like the split five spoke wheels better than fan blades for the Model X.�
Feb 10, 2012
vfx I'd love to tell you but I'm not an engineer. (but JB is).�
Feb 10, 2012
WhiteKnight I also heard from the people at Tesla that the second motor up front would mean more regen.�
Feb 10, 2012
vfx The
test track" was woefully short. Nothing like the Fremont event where we hit 70-80. As it was they ran out of Roadster room. I counted 45 and there may have been others sent somewhere else.. Getting in and parking there was painful. From that aspect the EVent would be better at an airport.
�
Feb 10, 2012
jimbakker666 I like it. I'd like to see the design of the rear changed a little bit to give it some 'bite', but otherwise I think it's pretty cool. I agree that the gull-wing rear doors are going to prevent canopy racks on the vehicle? Why buy an 'suv-type 4wd vehicle' when you can't take too-big-for-the-car items with you?
It'll be interesting to see how they address some of these flaws, still have time to change things around.�
Feb 10, 2012
drees The problem isn't that there's any electrical limitation with rear-wheel only regen, but you can only regen up to a certain amount with the rear wheels only before you run the risk of upsetting the balance of the car, especially if you make any sudden direction changes. Essentially you will be traction limited far before you reach any electrical limitations.
Any sports car driver can tell you what will happen if you suddenly let off the throttle in a high-compression RWD car going around a corner and it's even worse if the road is slippery.
Given that the front wheels do most of the braking under moderate to heavy braking loads due to forward weight transfer, being able to use both the front and rear tires for braking will let you recover much more energy in more situations safely.
Depending on the state of charge of the battery, it's quiet conceivable that one could brake using regen only as quickly as the car can accelerate if you're able to use all 4 wheels for regen.
Given that the front wheels of the X will only have half the power of the rear wheels, you can't quite brake that hard, but 100+kW of regen plus whatever the rears can also contribute should be possible with AWD and would be quite a bit more powerful than what current production EVs limit regen to.
That said - chances are that Tesla will limit regen power to something around supercharger power levels to avoid damaging the pack.�
Feb 10, 2012
njligernj My thoughts FWIW (I put down a reservation today):
I find it hard to get too worked up about the rear doors (either pro or con). Especially until I see them action. Certainly nothing close to a deal breaker for me as they seem to be for some. Heard a lot of people talking about snow. I'm in Canada and get more than my fair share of snow. I brush it off. I don't open the door to my sedan right now without brushing off the snow. It's illegal (although almost never enforced) to drive around with a pile of snow on top of your car. That said, judging from the amount of people who do drive around with piles of snow on top I guess I'm in the minority in thinking it makes sense to brush the snow off first. If I don't brush it off on my sedan I get a bunch of snow in my car -- so what's changed? I do think the doors overshadow the car however -- every review will have to spend half the time talking about the doors instead of some of the amazing technology involved (which is far more interesting to hear about).
Price is probably the biggest factor for me since I'm in Canada (and an area of Canada with no rebate as of right now -- in a province, NS, which isn't likely to bother). If they mark-up too heavily for Canada it might be too pricey to justify.
That said, for now I'm excited. They list three variations (basic, AWD and performance AWD). However I believe Musk said you don't need performance model for under 5 sec 0-60 which is pretty amazing.�
Feb 10, 2012
vfx One article says the 4.4 is the performance version and one (MT) says 4.4 is not even the performance version.�
Feb 10, 2012
doug My understanding from Katie's Gigaom video was that the performance version would be 4.4s. And the prototype she rode in, while impressive "wasn't even the performance version" (quoting Elon).�
Feb 10, 2012
Mycroft That was my interpretation as well Doug. Time will tell the tale.�
Feb 10, 2012
dsm363 I would have thought that if the base version was 4.4 seconds and the performance version was faster, they would have said that in the presentation. The slide did compare the 911 to the Model X Performance so the 4.4 seconds is probably the fastest Model X version.�
Feb 11, 2012
zack Sigh. I feel bad thinking about Elon substituting "fast" for "quick."
Quickness is the measure of acceleration. Fast implies a top speed comparison, which electrics have yet to nail. Elon might wish to get into bed with Gear Vendors, who make an over/under drive that's capable of two speed shifting without a clutch at high torque and horsepower and doesn't weigh much.�
Feb 11, 2012
mpt Robert Llewelyn's thoughts on the Model X over at Transport Evolved; Transport Evolved�
Feb 11, 2012
WhiteKnight In one of the videos that I watched of Model X test drives, the driver of the X is commenting on the acceleration and he says "and this isn't even the performance version." So we know the prototype was AWD but not AWD performance. So yeah it makes sense that the Performance version will be the one that goes 0-60 in 4.4s.
I think that even if the Model X is capable of greater than 4.4s they would not tell us that now because they would not want anyone signed up for a Performance S to shift their reservation to a Performance X. Am I being too cynical? Or maybe they just electronically limit the vehicle to 4.4s so as not to cannibalize Model S sales? I mean 4.4s is wicked fast!!!�
Feb 11, 2012
mailscotty This design is blah. I am not impressed with the design. It looks like a lemon. Or a bloated blimp. You don't see any the sleek look like the Model S has, nor do you see any of the racy looks of the Roadster. That article below does have some things we need to think about.
The Tesla Model X Looks Like A Fat Electric DeLorean
I would have preferred the sleek long balanced look of an Infiniti FX35. That is an eye opener design.
Infiniti FX35
I am disappointed on the design aspects of the Model X. I hope they revised the design.
Scott�
Feb 11, 2012
ElSupreme A lot of that is what they had to make. I don't think anything that has a real 3rd row looks 'racy'. The car just gets large and bloated. I am actually amazed at how well they did with vehicle height. It isn't, comparatively, tall. It doesn't look all that tall. Even a disguised minivan has to be minivan shaped. The 3 things I can think of that don't look like minivans, but have 3 real rows, are Suburbans, Excursions, and real Vans.
I actually like real minivans, this looks like a SUV but more fits the minivan size envelope. I like it, but don't need it. Model S for me.
Wait I mean SUV not minivan everywhere!�
Feb 11, 2012
Robert.Boston My guess is that the front motor has to be suspended higher to allow steering the front wheels. That, at least, is the most obvious functional requirement difference between the front and rear axles.�
Feb 11, 2012
Mycroft Yes, they had to get the motor above the battery module which extends almost to the axle.
I think, given the constraints, they did an amazing job with the design. I just wish they had provided measurements so we could compare with our garage doors. I have a fairly low garage opening, so if it would fit in mine, it would fit in practically any garage.�
Feb 11, 2012
vfx I like my FX 35 design better as well. (As I have noted elsewhere many Roaster owners are cool with the unique design of the FX and drive-charging of an electric and have both. )
The X wins on the no-gas front. My 16MPG is painful after driving the Roadster all the time. I do note that Tesla can't afford to go all radical on design if they want to sell in mass quantities. More houses sell that are painted beige than polka dot.
The car does sort of satisfy the cool factor in a sleeper way. The X looks rather featureless (and aerodynamic) as it sits in it's store parking place. But when you come out with two small bags of groceries, do you put them on the front seat? Open up the back hatch? Or do you open the awesomely cool falcon wing doors that can be seen from across the parking lot? Conversations about no-gas get started that way.
Spread your wings and go electric.�
Feb 11, 2012
ckessel They tried to keep with the "sleek" look with the X, but for an SUV/XUV/CUV I think they're better going for tough/muscle look like the FX35. Trying to make a 7-seat car look sleek is a hard sell, it's fighting the inherent bulk caused by having a car that fits that many people.�
Feb 11, 2012
Robert.Boston Tesla had to do more than make it look sleek -- they had to make it sleek for aerodynamics and mileage. Its hulking, high CdA contributes to FX35's poor mileage.�
Feb 11, 2012
vfx Sigh.
When 1000 mile batteries are common then designers can be more "wasteful" in aerodynamic EV design.�
Feb 11, 2012
WhiteKnight Franz was quoted somewhere as saying that he deliberately did not make it masculine or feminine but tried to balance the two (bisexual?).
As a man, I would prefer something really masculine with hard angles (Lamborghini Aventador) instead of flowing curves but just like Robert.Boston said, that isn't going to happen because of drag coefficients.�
Feb 11, 2012
NigelM :frown:....how about "metrosexual" instead.....�
Feb 11, 2012
mailscotty Disappointed. This is blah, bloated, and a blimp.�
Feb 11, 2012
bonnie ,
Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel. Seriously, what were you expecting/ hoping for?�
Feb 11, 2012
mailscotty Model X does not have the sleek look like the Model S did. Nor does it have the sleek look that the infiniti x35 SUV has.
Scott�
Feb 11, 2012
mailscotty I was either expecting either a tough looking SUV or a sleek racy SUV. Either one of those would be fine. But this looks like a lemon, the curves are too rounded. I like the falcon doors but they should be for the front doors also, not just the back. The lower body should be more like a sleek long shape like the Infiniti FX35.
2012 Infiniti FX35 and FX50 Models and Pricing | Infiniti USA�
Feb 11, 2012
mailscotty I was either expecting either a tough looking SUV or a sleek racy SUV. Either one of those would be fine. But this looks like a lemon, the curves are too rounded. I like the falcon doors but they should be for the front doors also, not just the back. The lower body should be more like a sleek long shape like the Infiniti FX35.
2012 Infiniti FX35 and FX50 Models and Pricing | Infiniti USA�
Feb 11, 2012
Vger I was at the event, liked the Model X much more than I thought I would, and ordered on the spot (P1 in Canada).
I suspect that many people complaining about the looks were not there in person. The vehicle looks MUCH more interesting, smooth and subtle in person than in photos/video. I am reminded about the reception the Ferrari 360 Modena first got in 1999. It was universally panned at first, but five years later was hailed as one of the most beautiful and innovative Pininfarina designs ever. And it became Ferrari's highest selling car ever, at the time. I find the lines of the Model X wonderful. It looks dramatic on first viewing, but does not tire the eyes with styling gimmicks-- it looks better and better the more you look at it and walk around it, and watch it drive. From 30 feet away, it does not look large at all; only when you get right next to it do you realize its scale. I think this will be a timeless design.
Falcon doors-- yes I had reservations at first, but functionally they seem well worked out, and will clearly be refined over the next year. I was able to button-hole Franz and asked him specifically about the height. He said that the necessary clearance is 7 feet, the same height as a standard garage door opening. So most people will not have a problem. They had to have tested this. and they can alway sacrifice a little bit of standing room to reduce the clearance an inch or two if need be.
Touch screen and dash design-- I like it actually much more than the S. The "floating" top of the touch panel makes it seem lighter and more accessible, visually. Overall, the interior felt better polished than the S, even at this early stage. The centre console is very nice. Those arm rests pull back to reveal two cup holders, BTW, I did it mysself.
I think the potential of the AWD is enormous. Yes, regen can be much more aggressive with 4 wheel balancing, as others have said above. The traction control should also be hugely better, increasing safety in rain and snow greatly. The turning circle was stunning. The first u-turn at the beginning of the test drive the X could do easily, while the S usually had to 3-point it! In fact, I asked Franz about this, and he said that at least in principal, they could get the car to spin on a spot (though obviously crunching the tires).
I went to the event wondering if we might convert our Signature S reservation to the X, especially because we live in western Canada, and have a 17% grade 200 metre long driveway. But now, my wife and I feel we really want to get both, to go with our dear Roadster-- a full complement of Teslas! We figure that we will keep these cars much longer than we have in the past, and that the long depreciation amortization will make up for the higher up-front cost.�
Feb 11, 2012
AnOutsider Very cool feedback. As an aside though, didn't they say the AWD was what was going to make the turning radius great. That mean the one at the reveal was AWD?�
Feb 11, 2012
Lyon I love it. I'm really looking forward to the Falcon wing doors. I live in rainy Oregon (we call mist "Oregon Sunshine") and I'm tired of standing in the rain while buckling my kid into his car seat. I think that the open Falcon door is going to provide a temporary cover while I'm doing that. Plus it'll make it easier to get the kids in and out in a parking lot. Also, Elon wasn't kidding about the 3rd row seats being inaccessible in an SUV with kids seats. We have 2 SUVs with 3rd rows and, in order to use them, we have to completely rearrange the seating configuration. It's a pain to say the least.�
Feb 11, 2012
Robert.Boston Yes; during someone's in-vehicle video during a test drive, the driver clearly stated that it had AWD.�
Feb 11, 2012
vfx
TEG's�
Feb 11, 2012
Vger Yes. Our driver also confirmed the driving proto was AWD. The difference in the turning cycle was very obvious. I have never seen a big vehicle turn that easily!�
Feb 11, 2012
Mycroft Excellent feedback Vger! I'm gonna double-up on my TSLA stock! Oh wait, I've already spent all my savings on the stock I already bought. Darn. ;-)�
Feb 11, 2012
Krandon Originally when I heard "Model X" I was expecting more of an SUV, less of a crossover/minivan. Pretty much a standard-door, 5-seat version of what rolled out. And I was very excited about it.
But as soon as I found out it would hold 7 adults... meh. It's still in the minivan category in my book, albeit a quick one. And with all the focus on holding car seats, why it needs to go 0-60 in 4.4 is beyond me. Hope people still drive conservatively with kids in the car.�
Feb 11, 2012
bonnie One friend told me she was putting a deposit down, another just called wanting more info (he was looking at it online) ... and he's putting a deposit down.
Winning.�
Feb 11, 2012
bonnie But you don't HAVE to put 7 adults in it
I suspect that my X will have most seats folded down the majority of the time, with 3 dogs roaming the back. And if the third row is an option, I'll pass - I can't remember the last time I needed space for 7 people. But I do want the space of the X. I'll get a custom liner made for the back, since it will also be hauling various Home Depot schwag, skis, bikes, camping gear, etc.�
Feb 11, 2012
Robert.Boston As I said a month ago, the Tesla fleet is evolving with Elon's family. Today, jumpseats for the twins are good. In a few years, Elon's growing (vertically) family will need the Model X. There's something to be said for being able to design and build your own car.�
Feb 11, 2012
AnOutsider So SUVs designed to seat 7 people are minivans as well? I guess I'm just not getting where the "meh" comes from (I know my "meh" comes from the doors). They delivered on what you were expecting (and excited about), and focused on adding 2 additional seats and that's a meh?�
Feb 11, 2012
vfx What if they made a panel van version?
Could you stand up some (Zero) motorcycles in it?�
Feb 11, 2012
Norbert The second row seemed to be held by three big pipes. Wouldn't surprise me if it might be removable.�
Feb 11, 2012
WhiteKnight I think given the deep well in the back of the Model X that you could stand up 3-4 golf bags (like on the back of a golf cart) because there is so much room back there�
Feb 11, 2012
Citizen-T And by the time his kids start driving, BlueStar will be out.�
Feb 11, 2012
Doug_G I wasn't planning on getting the Model X; I'm planning to get a Model S and keep my Roadster. That's enough cars! But I do have some thoughts:
The styling is about what I expected - a taller version of the S. It looks good (with the doors closed). Not as sexy as the S, but how could it be otherwise?
I have a generally positive impression of the Falcon doors. Not because of any supposed "wow factor", but rather because I think they would indeed be very practical in terms of loading/unloading people and things.
I don't think that the Falcon doors would be a particular problem in winter; if I don't clear off my regular car's doors off then I will get snow on my seat. If there was a very large amount of snow on the car and you opened both sides, then there might be an obstruction. Presumably the doors have some kind of protection against any sort of binding.
I thought the interior looked very attractive and very roomy. Unlike some people I quite like the dashboard.
They loaded an impressive amount of luggage in the trunk! (Never mind the stuck Frunk.)
I like the AWD technology.
If I was thinking of getting another crossover instead of a sedan I'd definitely go with it.�
Feb 12, 2012
brianman Theory:
1. Tesla person said "10 to 12 percent less".
2. Motor Trend person said, "ok let's use 11%".
3. Motor Trend person did napkin calculation: 300mi * 0.89 = 267mi.
4. Motor Trend person mis-remembered the S ranges as 160/240/300 (instead of 160/230/300) because the progression is mathematically prettier.
5. Motor Trend person did napkin calculation: 240mi * 0.89 = 213.6mi. ~= 214mi.�
Feb 12, 2012
Norbert They also allow more interaction/communication between the those sitting and those standing in front of the car. In my experience with family trips, that was always crucial in the 10 minutes before departure and after arrival, which in turn often set the tone for the drive or afterwards.
I like the free-flaoting screen. Space-age in a nice way, contrasting with what to me seems a retro style dashboard. Though I think otherwise I prefer the Model S dashboard.
And now everyone wants AWD on the Model S.�
Feb 12, 2012
Robert.Boston +1 : I think you nailed the origin of the faux precision.�
Feb 12, 2012
WarpedOne It *will* happen.�
Feb 12, 2012
jcstp I guess it's one of those cars you have to see in person to fully understand them!
For now the MODEL S has more WOW-factor than the MODEL X in my opinion!�
Feb 12, 2012
setritt i was thinking the same thing when i saw the reveal but now i'm wondering if the X is gonna be a huge hit. it keeps growing on me, that's for sure. the biggest concern for me is gonna be the range. i would absolutely get it if the range was about 400 or the supercharging network was a little more set up or defined better as to locations. i have my reservation for the S and certainly can't convince my wife to get the X so i am gonna have to choose between the two. if i get the X i would want it to definitely be the family vehicle.�
Feb 12, 2012
Todd Burch I think that by the time you would receive delivery of the Model X, the supercharger network will be pretty well-developed.�
Feb 12, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Crossposting some of this from the door poll thread. Though I'm not getting the X, I was at the event and have some thoughts on the X.
I'd have preferred if Tesla had stayed a little more mainstream with regard to the rear doors. With Tesla offering the means to electronically slide the second row forward (rather than collapsing the seats manually and rolling them forward like in a minivan), traditional doors would have been just fine for the typical, unfortunate third row occupants (teens, shorter adults, pets).
Getting kids into carseats in the second row does get easier with the falcon wings but, as someone said earlier on this thread, in my opinion, the falcon doors will unfortunately turn a loooooot of folks away (after we fanboys/fangirls have been completely tapped) from the X - it's hard enough to convince the average Jane Carbuyer to go 'crossover EV' but, with the wings... :frown:
The first sight of the S had me hooked - a super sporty, sexy, yet practical sedan that also happened to be an EV with unprecedented range! The X has ended up looking more gimmicky - Tesla and their boosters such as we all have to go the extra mile to convince folks that the benefits outweigh the perceived "concept car impracticality".
Also, many of the SUV and minivan owner friends of mine do not ever park them in their garages - they'd rather park them in the driveway and use the garage space for other purposes; mind you, this is while choosing to park sedans or smaller cars in the garage. This'd most likely not be an option with the X since it needs to be plugged in and most folks would want to have a charging station or 240V outlet inside the garage. The falcon wings - which, I admit, have been proven to fit (virtually, of course) in typical garages by Norbert, NigelM and others - have just made that equation far more complex. I, for one, cannot pull it off as the wings of the X (when parked next to the second car in the garage) would have taken a liking to the overhead shelves that I have all around in the garage (I had the shelves built with about 6' 3" clearance from the ground).�
Feb 12, 2012
vfx That night I rode in the 3rd row. It was a decent amount of space all around. When in I got that bigger inside than outside feeling.
When I went to get out I was making an awkward show of it with my big still camera in my hand. A Tesla employee hit a button on the side of the 2nd row seat and it crept forward. Very slowly. Pretty good for a prototype really.�
Feb 12, 2012
Doug_G Since the motor is above the axle, does that mean AWD will consume part of the Frunk in the Model S? (Maybe the extended back part, which the X doesn't have?)�
Feb 12, 2012
goyogi Agreed. I like the more open feel. It would also reduce seal points.�
Feb 12, 2012
bonnie I've been using the 'bigger on the inside than it is on the outside' quote. People get it. Well okay, my friends do.�
Feb 12, 2012
vfx Well I stole it from you and the good TV Dr.�
Feb 12, 2012
TEG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_nO8LSqTsY�
Feb 12, 2012
mailscotty The front grill on both Model S and X look horrible. Like a large fish mouth ready to eat something. Not classy at all.�
Feb 12, 2012
vfx Ironic because it is entirely vestigial. There is no actual grill. It's more understated that the Volt's faux grill.�
Feb 12, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Completely agree - the profile view in particular (Model S Gallery | Tesla Motors).
I hope there'd be a cooler looking aftermarket grill that someone can come up with - I'll take even this one (Tesla Model S Electric Sedan Breaks Cover - NYTimes.com) :biggrin:�
Feb 12, 2012
AnOutsider Let it all out buddy.�
Feb 12, 2012
bonnie I noticed that. A total of four posts and all extremely negative.�
Feb 12, 2012
NigelM There is a lot going on for a car that doesn't have a radiator:
I'm feeling "on the fence" myself...somehow it seems very busy compared with a sleek interior. Dr Who syndrome?�
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