teslamotorclub: Feedback and suggestions regarding the Model S Beta part 1

After the whirlwind ride in the beta last weekend and then, an up close experience with the red signature beta at the Tesla Menlo Park store earlier today, here are my gripes with the Model S Beta that I honestly feel Tesla ought to address to keep me interested:

1) The interior was very lacking; it looked stark, spartan and hardly luxurious. To compare it to the competition (such as a BMW 5 or a Lexus GS), I didn't have the same sense that I was experiencing something special in the Model S Beta as I did when checking out the finished BMW or Lexus at their dealerships! Unlike the exterior which was excellent, the interior looked like it was just cobbled together without the same degree of attention to detail. To use a harsh word, it looked cheap!

2) The leather seats were very ordinary and not worthy of a $57k+ car. They weren't supportive enough in both the front and back. And, both the driver and the passenger seats ought to be 8-way adjustable.

3) The standout feature of the interior, the 17" touchscreen, looked sorely out of place. It looked like a bland computer monitor slapped in there; it didn't blend in into the dash like it did in the prototype. It had other problems such as heavy glare and poor off-angle viewing from the front passenger seat.

4) Where's the in-dash storage space? There ought to be a lot of it given the frunk right ahead.

5) My only gripe with the exterior is the wonky-looking chargeport door! It didn't blend in at all and stuck out like a sore thumb. At the least, the door (and its peer reflector on the passenger side) ought to be extended all the way to the top to make it more organic; here's a mockup:

View attachment 2964

UPDATE: Heard from a Tesla employee on 10/09 confirming that many of these concerns (such as the seats, the fit and finish) were already scheduled to be addressed and that, they are actively watching this forum and others for feedback such as this. So, bottomline, do take all my points above with a bag of salt :smile: I've updated my title to a more harmonious "Feedback and suggestions regarding the Model S Beta".

Doug, thanks for updating the thread title!

Made a follow-up post with more info from talking to the Tesla employee: Feedback and suggestions regarding the Model S Beta
�

I think those are all good points gg. We'll have to see what Tesla comes up with when the car is more finalized. They should be publishing features and options before production of the RC.
�

I agree on the interior wholeheartedly. It was the most disappointing part of the car for me. The tail lights are growing on me, but they are indeed a weak point on the exterior for me.

Also, I think the karmas gauges look better. If I'm not mistaken, they're a mix of screen and physical bits.
�

@gg: I agree completely with your points (1) to (4). Let's hope Tesla acts on the growing criticism of the interior.
�

When I talked to a salesperson at Tesla a few weeks ago in LA, I got the distinct impression they got the interior together last minute. He didn't say that explicitly, but what he said gave me that impression. My guess is they're still working on the interior.
�

I agree the interior was weak, and I do not like the taillights.
Anyone notice in the interior shots there is a big shade over the speedo LCD? If that is necessary for the speedo LCD, why is it not for the center screen?
I hope they have a solution for the glare - the Prius has a small touchscreen in the center, and it is unusable if the sun comes in at the right angle.
�

I agree that bringing the console back would be better. Better cup holders, place for shift buttons/stick, more asthetical placement of the 17" screen and lots of storage possibilities.
�

agreed on all points, especially the seats. For a car that promises class leading handling i would expect much more lateral support.

other observations:
-no storage/pockets in doors or seat backs.
-didn't see any cup holders for back seat occupants.
-no side bars/grab bars.
-need sliding sun screen for panoramic roof. (I�m pretty sure someone a Tesla said that was in the works)
-the nose cone is better but still needs some help. not really sure what, perhaps just less glossy.
-that chrome accent strip below the doors just looks weired to me. Gives the illusion that the doors extend down more than the other body panels. Maybe it should run the full length from wheel opening to wheel opening or just be eliminated entirely.
�

I thought the gauge cluster outline would be more cool if it matched the outside shape of the front grill.

Softer like the Alfa interior feels.
�

vfx said: ?

I thought the gauge cluster outline would be more cool if it matched the outside shape of the front grill.
.
Click to expand...

I like that idea - starts to drive the look of the brand.
�

I think and hope the dash is a work in progress.
I agree with VXF and Bonnie. The dash should recapitulate the grill
�

I want to make sure there is good phone (iPhone really) integration.
�

Wasn't at the event, but from the pictures I have to agree with most of your points (can't comment on the lateral support in the seats). I think extending the console to include drive selector buttons and cup holders will go a long way to making the dash look more refined. I think Franz intended to show off the humpless floor, but in my mind it's a design fail.

My thought is to swoop it down from the touchscreen to where it links up to the armrest -- but don't extend it to the floor. Have the center console act like sort of a bridge between the dash and the armrest. You can still play footsies underneath, but gain a lot of usable surface area.

Still, I'm not liking the idea that packages and purses from the passenger side can slide under the driver's feet while showing off some fancy slaloms.
�

I for one really like the simplicity and minimalist dash. I can't stand button and overly clutter dashs that plague luxury brand cars. I do have to agree that they should shape the driver's instrument panel the same as the grill, but I find it nice now too.

My pet peeve are the seats which are probably going to be change/refined

But overall I like the direction the tesla is going with the interior.
�

I'm a bit ambivalent on the dash, but stuff sliding along the end of the passenger footwell and then interfering with the pedals is not a a nice scenario. I'd gladly close up more of that space and get more interior storage space in the dash and doors.

I would also like to adress the need for a rear window windshield wiper. Currently I can't see any windshield wipers front or rear, but I assume the front ones are there. I really really want a wiper in the back, my current sedan doesn't have that and it's really annoying.

Looking at the current Focus, it has automatically adjusted front headlights which is nice as well as a rain sensor for the wind shield wipers which also is very usefull. Not to forget the autodimming rear view mirror.

Cobos

Edit: typos, thanks TEG
�

If they are entering the crash test phase, will they be able to make major interior changes anyway?
�

mt2 said: ?

Still, I'm not liking the idea that packages and purses from the passenger side can slide under the driver's feet while showing off some fancy slaloms.
Click to expand...

Maybe it is not the same on all betas, but in general there are two dividers, which seem to create a large open storage space there, but certainly keep things from sliding over from the passenger side:

Photos from Sunday, October 2, 2011 (Model S event))

�

In this video : http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6505-Driving-the-Model-S-Sedan-at-the-Tesla-Factory-Track-%28In-the-Rain%29 they say the car was ready the day before the factory-presentation! In an other video I heard there was a lot of rapidprototyping!
so complaining about the finish of the car is verry premature I guess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a prototype!!!!!!!
Did anyone sit in prototypes of other OEM's????????????????????
compare apples with apples!!!!!!!!!!!
�

I think the point of the thread is to react to what we've seen, and hopefully have a chance to influence the final form. Saying "well, its only the beta" and just hoping it looks better in the final is probably less useful.
�

jcstp said: ?

In this video : http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6505-Driving-the-Model-S-Sedan-at-the-Tesla-Factory-Track-%28In-the-Rain%29 they say the car was ready the day before the factory-presentation! In an other video I heard there was a lot of rapidprototyping!
so complaining about the finish of the car is verry premature I guess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a prototype!!!!!!!
Did anyone sit in prototypes of other OEM's????????????????????
compare apples with apples!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

+1. And maybe it would have been better to call the thread something like "Suggestions, Wishes and Recommendations" rather than making it about complaints with a sad face?
�

NigelM said: ?

+1. And maybe it would have been better to call the thread something like "Suggestions, Wishes and Recommendations" rather than making it about complaints with a sad face?
Click to expand...

Ditto, Nigel - exactly what I've been thinking. I'm sure this is all valuable input to Tesla, but perhaps we could offer it under a less confrontational thread name. It IS a beta, there is still work to be done (or production would be beginning this year).
�

NigelM said: ?

+1. And maybe it would have been better to call the thread something like "Suggestions, Wishes and Recommendations" rather than making it about complaints with a sad face?
Click to expand...

I agree with Nigel. Juding by the pictures I think the seats were too flat and did not provide enough bolstering. I think the tail lights are fine but the side reflector could go all the way up. I think the charger door is fine and I understand the logic behind not having a door on the body of the vehicle. The interior could go for an update and the Beta 2 will hopefully offer more details.
�

Note that in the Design Studio that they don't have the interior section ready. Even though they have some trim options (leather/cloth/accents). I'm not saying don't voice your opinion but just do so with the likelihood this is not the final design.
�

I'm not sure anyone here is assuming this is the final design? We all knew the alphas weren't final but we did have discussions about the nose cones didn't we? Same with the prototypes.

We know it's not final, but we can still discuss what we do and don't like. With all the talk in various threads, I think it was a fine idea to create a dedicated thread to combine the feedback.

Also cobos, there's a video showing the model s in the rain. It does have wipers, but I'm not sure it's clear whether they're automatic or not. Not many sedans have rear wipers and I don't think the a7 does either (closest car to the s)
�

At the factory tour, a few times I heard people say something like "this is what it will look like in production."
I heard that more from the "lower level" people so perhaps they weren't completely authoritative, but I did get the sense they are trying to "lock things down" as they need to focus on getting production ready, not more changes.

With that said, it was clear that they are still not totally 100% done with the overall design.
�

Never meant the thread title to be confrontational (my personality doesn't allow me to be, even if I wanted to :smile but, yeah, the concern is that "> 90% close to production intent" would imply that Tesla may not be willing/able to make wholesale changes to the interior anymore. That's my concern really; what appears to be a wonderful car otherwise - the exterior, the driving feel, the eco-credentials - might get derailed (atleast in the eyes of a few potential buyers if not some of us existing reservation holders) by a relatively sub-par interior...
�

Although I didn't see the beta in person, based on what I've read and seen on this forum, one of my concerns is regarding safety. I understand from many that the driver and passenger can play footsie due to the lack of a transmission hump. I always have a concern of something in the footwell shifting while driving and getting behind the brake or wedging the accelerator down. I think it would be smart to isolate the driver's feet and pedals for safety reasons.
�

AnOutsider said: ?

I'm not sure anyone here is assuming this is the final design? We all knew the alphas weren't final but we did have discussions about the nose cones didn't we? Same with the prototypes.

We know it's not final, but we can still discuss what we do and don't like. With all the talk in various threads, I think it was a fine idea to create a dedicated thread to combine the feedback.

Also cobos, there's a video showing the model s in the rain. It does have wipers, but I'm not sure it's clear whether they're automatic or not. Not many sedans have rear wipers and I don't think the a7 does either (closest car to the s)
Click to expand...

It seems you are right about the A7 not having rear window wipers, but for someone that had a hatchback with wipers it feels really stupid to stop the car to manually wipe the rear window to be able to use the rear view mirror. Sometimes during spring and autumn there is so much pollen you need to wipe down the rear window before every trip. Not to mention when it snows and rains so badly that the heating wires can't handle it. So my point is that regardless of what other cars do, it's a very usefull addition. Try a car with it in non-California weather and you will see

Cobos
�

In my experience, sedans don't need rear wipers but hatchbacks do. Dirty water from the road gets sucked back onto the rear of the car, and if the window is right there it gets covered. This is especially problematic in areas where they salt the roads in winter (i.e. here).
�

Door handles

OK, I know have been harping about this a little bit in other threads, but the idea of the protruding handles just doesn't land with me. The idea of waiting a second before opening the door is not appealing, not to mention the potential of it bumping into things, scratching other cars when extended, etc etc. (I don't think I'll ever get past the fear of getting my fingers stuck in it either...)

I know the idea is for it to be flush with the body, but can't they do it a mechanical way, like Aston Martin?
�

UPDATE: Heard from a Tesla employee on 10/09 confirming that many of these concerns (such as the seats, the fit and finish) were already scheduled to be addressed and that, they are actively watching this forum and others for feedback such as this. So, bottomline, do take all my input with a bag of salt :smile: I've edited the first post accordingly.
�

While I agree with you Trnsl8r that solid feeling "thumb flipper" manual flush handles would be better, I think Elon is totally committed to the "magic" handles. Hopefully the final design will work well.

If we're stuck with it, here's how I think it should work:

As the person possessing a key (driver or passenger) approaches their door, the handle should automatically extend for them. The other doors remain locked unless a key holder presses a button on the key.

When the car door is opened from the inside, the handle should extend so that an external person can assist with the door if desired and so it can be used as a pushing point to close the door and keep finger prints off the paint job.

Once the door is closed, then the handle wouldn't withdraw until a few seconds afterward. It goes without saying that it should not be possible to be injured if your naked or gloved fingers are still holding the handle.

Again, I sure hope they use satin chrome for the handles for fingerprint reasons. Frankly, I'd prefer them to be the same color as the rest of the body so they nearly disappear when flush.
�

Unfortunately, I wasn't at the "event", but I am still wondering about the center strorage/cupholder/armrest. It seems from pictures to be fairly towards the rear of the seat, particularly if there is a cup in the holder. I can't stand the way Mercedes does it currently in the "E" class where the cupholder is in the center console which also acts as an armrest. So if you have something in the cupholder (I almost always do), you can't comfortably use the armrest. I know nobody was in a position to judge from the driver's seat but it seemed to me from photos that there is plenty of room to have the armrest extend further forward to be more useable, with or without a cup in the holder....
�

kgb said: ?

Although I didn't see the beta in person, based on what I've read and seen on this forum, one of my concerns is regarding safety. I understand from many that the driver and passenger can play footsie due to the lack of a transmission hump. I always have a concern of something in the footwell shifting while driving and getting behind the brake or wedging the accelerator down. I think it would be smart to isolate the driver's feet and pedals for safety reasons.
Click to expand...

Can't you see the divider between the footwells here?:

�

Tesla seems to have enough people with years of experience in the car business, I would think they could build a car with a decent interior. I think it's probably best to wait until later in the year or spring when options are announced and more production intent cars are built.
�

doug said: ?

Can't you see the divider between the footwells here?:
Click to expand...

I guess I didn't see that. But that is acceptable. It will keep debris from under the driver's foot.

And since this is a "suggestions" thread, I would like to make one regarding that bin on the floor. It looks large and without structure or cover. I realize that a space that large could have multiple uses, each different for each driver. Unless you only put one object in there, as you drive, smaller items will slide around and mix into a big pile. Perhaps a modular divider system could be employed to keep smaller objects organized after driving. OR something I loved from my 2001 Lexus was a "cool" box for keeping drinks/water, that was great before, but now that I have kids, it would be EVEN BETTER.
�

kgb said: ?

I guess I didn't see that. But that is acceptable. It will keep debris from under the driver's foot.
Click to expand...

A couple of pictures that show the divider in a "better light".

View attachment 3048 View attachment 3047
�

Ah, Tommy, yours are even better, I was just going to post this enhancement:

Photos from Sunday, October 2, 2011 (Model S event)

�

Mycroft said: ?

While I agree with you Trnsl8r that solid feeling "thumb flipper" manual flush handles would be better, I think Elon is totally committed to the "magic" handles. Hopefully the final design will work well.
Click to expand...

That's probably the biggest problem right now, the "losing face" part if they abandon the design at this point. :frown: It's OK Tesla, we won't think less of you...
�

What I would like to see is the ability to purchase modular charging sockets that plug into a standard receptacle, say insider the boot\trunk or frunk that would allow you to configure your car to suit your local conditions such as a Chademo port or J1772 etc. Then it would be nice to be able to have an invisible door in the grill or boot lid to pass you cable through but stll keep the car secure. I agree with Tesla that SAE standard looks cumbersome, but I think early adopters will need a degree of flexibility to charge off the currently installed infrastructure.
�

Since I haven't seen the Beta in person my "issues" are based solely on the pictures. That being said I've got a couple things I can see that I'd like to see done different:

- How is the air in the rear? The handful of cars I've been in with center-console rear vents have anemic output to those seated in the back.

- This is just a nit-picky thing but I would like to see the rear windows go all the way down.

- Unless I missed it, where is the cruise control lever? (Or is that set via the screen?!)

- Does anyone know what Tesla plans to do with the shift lever since the Beta's shift lever is just from Mercedes? Buttons on the dash would probably look funny and having them on the floor (a la Roadster 2.0/2.5) probably wouldn't be a public (or Tesla internal) favorite but I don't know where else to suggest putting them,

None of these are big enough even if they were all combined for me to not want a Model S. It would just be nice to see them changed.
�

Trnsl8r said: ?

That's probably the biggest problem right now, the "losing face" part if they abandon the design at this point. :frown: It's OK Tesla, we won't think less of you...
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm fine with the handles. I can see it being a pain waiting for them, but if they stay "open" until the car is locked, then that shouldn't be too much of a problem. When you're approaching the car quickly, perhaps there's a button on the FOB to manually unlock the car. Once you do that, the handles slide out immediately -- that way you can prepare the car for your approach.

At that point, I'd imagine the handles staying "open" until you hit say 3-5 MPH at which point they'd slide back in along with the doors automatically locking.

PopSmith said: ?

- Does anyone know what Tesla plans to do with the shift lever since the Beta's shift lever is just from Mercedes? Buttons on the dash would probably look funny and having them on the floor (a la Roadster 2.0/2.5) probably wouldn't be a public (or Tesla internal) favorite but I don't know where else to suggest putting them,
Click to expand...

There's a whole discussion on that, but AFAIK, no one knows.
�

PopSmith said: ?

Since I haven't seen the Beta in person my "issues" are based solely on the pictures. That being said I've got a couple things I can see that I'd like to see done different:

- How is the air in the rear? The handful of cars I've been in with center-console rear vents have anemic output to those seated in the back.

- This is just a nit-picky thing but I would like to see the rear windows go all the way down.

- Unless I missed it, where is the cruise control lever? (Or is that set via the screen?!)

- Does anyone know what Tesla plans to do with the shift lever since the Beta's shift lever is just from Mercedes? Buttons on the dash would probably look funny and having them on the floor (a la Roadster 2.0/2.5) probably wouldn't be a public (or Tesla internal) favorite but I don't know where else to suggest putting them,

None of these are big enough even if they were all combined for me to not want a Model S. It would just be nice to see them changed.
Click to expand...

Currently the cruise control is stalk mounted on the left side of the steering column. It may change slightly, but i think it will likely remain in that general location. As for the shift lever, didn't get any specifics, but everyone that I talked to at Tesla was indicating that the Mercedes part will be replaced with a Tesla design located in the same place.
�

PopSmith said: ?

- This is just a nit-picky thing but I would like to see the rear windows go all the way down.
Click to expand...

The problem here is most likely because there isn't enough room at the bottom of the door to hold the window. So unless they completely redesign the rear of the car or they invent a roll-up window, it's not going to happen.
�

Norbert said: ?

Ah, Tommy, yours are even better, I was just going to post this enhancement:

Photos from Sunday, October 2, 2011 (Model S event)

Click to expand...

Just realized from your photo that you lose the arm rest when you slide it back to access the cup holder. Can't say that thrills me if that is truly how it works. Also did not notice any cup holders in the back seat, doors or center console, would like to see at least something for the kids in the back.
�

AnOutsider said: ?

There's a whole discussion on that, but AFAIK, no one knows.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks. :smile:

MDR said: ?

Currently the cruise control is stalk mounted on the left side of the steering column. It may change slightly, but i think it will likely remain in that general location. As for the shift lever, didn't get any specifics, but everyone that I talked to at Tesla was indicating that the Mercedes part will be replaced with a Tesla design located in the same place.
Click to expand...

Cool (and thank you for the picture) I noticed a second lever after posting but due to the picture angle I wasn't sure if it was the cruise control lever or not. It looks like the lever below that is the lights/signaling lever, correct?

Mycroft said: ?

The problem here is most likely because there isn't enough room at the bottom of the door to hold the window. So unless they completely redesign the rear of the car or they invent a roll-up window, it's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was afraid of that. :tongue: It's not such a big deal that I would get a different car, it's just personal preference.
�

PopSmith said: ?

I noticed a second lever after posting but due to the picture angle I wasn't sure if it was the cruise control lever or not. It looks like the lever below that is the lights/signaling lever, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, the top lever is cruise and the bottom is turns & windshield wipers. They're just using a Mercedes control for the beta.
�

gg_wants_a_tesla said: ?

I've edited the first post accordingly.
Click to expand...

I think you can update the thread title when you "Go Advanced" or something like that.
�

AnOutsider said: ?

Personally, I'm fine with the handles. I can see it being a pain waiting for them, but if they stay "open" until the car is locked, then that shouldn't be too much of a problem. When you're approaching the car quickly, perhaps there's a button on the FOB to manually unlock the car. Once you do that, the handles slide out immediately -- that way you can prepare the car for your approach.

At that point, I'd imagine the handles staying "open" until you hit say 3-5 MPH at which point they'd slide back in along with the doors automatically locking.
Click to expand...

I love the handles and the only change I would wish for is to have them color matched to the door paint to keep them camouflaged. I would also suggest that they "close" as soon as you put the car into drive or reverse, and only open when you put the car in park.
�

For Pete's Sake - if this is the really the design of the armrest/cupholder, some engineer deserves a spanking. You have so much room there, why not keep armrest where it is and bring the cupholders further into the well extended another several inches towards the dash or just extend the whole thing closer towards the dash so that both are totally useable. This is a pet peeve of mine, but as someone who commuted 60 miles to and from work every day and as someone who now lives in a hot climate where a cold drink is welcome in the car, this version is really not practical. The Germans don't give a hoot about cupholders, but us Americans are definitely more picky!
�

Hahah. I keep thinking about my *cup holder* in the Roadster. Americans are really NOT that picky, it appears
�

NigelM said: ?

I love the handles and the only change I would wish for is to have them color matched to the door paint to keep them camouflaged. I would also suggest that they "close" as soon as you put the car into drive or reverse, and only open when you put the car in park.
Click to expand...

I actually like the color, especially if they go with someone like brushed aluminum to fight off prints. I suspect it would be fairly trivial to offer body-color handles for a premium though. Body-colored XYZ is often an upgrade option on cars.

Charged_Up said: ?

For Pete's Sake - if this is the really the design of the armrest/cupholder, some engineer deserves a spanking. You have so much room there, why not keep armrest where it is and bring the cupholders further into the well extended another several inches towards the dash or just extend the whole thing closer towards the dash so that both are totally useable. This is a pet peeve of mine, but as someone who commuted 60 miles to and from work every day and as someone who now lives in a hot climate where a cold drink is welcome in the car, this version is really not practical. The Germans don't give a hoot about cupholders, but us Americans are definitely more picky!
Click to expand...

Good thing it's an American car! I'm sure Elon needs somewhere for the Starbucks cup
�

bonnie1194 said: ?

Hahah. I keep thinking about my *cup holder* in the Roadster. Americans are really NOT that picky, it appears
Click to expand...

We keep having to stow our Starbucks cups in the trunk. They snug in nicely beside the soft top. I use my computer bag to snug them if the soft top isn't there. The lack of a cupholder is most annoying. (The fold-out cupholder doesn't count because 90% of the time I have a passenger and can't use it.)
�

As bad as the Roadster's cup holder is, it's still better than my SLK. In the SLK, the cup holder is a drawer that pops out of the dash above the radio. So if you spill your coffee, then it pours into the vents and the stereo system. The previous owner of my car found that out the hard way.
�

Doug_G said: ?

(The fold-out cupholder doesn't count because 90% of the time I have a passenger and can't use it.)
Click to expand...

I beg to differ....Passenger=Cupholder. That's the rule!:wink:
�

NigelM said: ?

I beg to differ....Passenger=Cupholder. That's the rule!:wink:
Click to expand...

Same in my car! "Here, hold this." It's a great cupholder.
�

Norbert said: ?

I think you can update the thread title when you "Go Advanced" or something like that.
Click to expand...

Tried but, that only let me edit the first post but, the thread title derived from it originally stayed put. Need Doug's help.
�

That's probably the biggest problem right now, the "losing face" part if they abandon the design at this point. It's OK Tesla, we won't think less of you...
Click to expand...

Tesla ain't changing the door handles. ONe of the goals was minimizing drag and wind resistance to improve the range of the car. Receding door handles, whether you like or don't like them, help reduce the drag on the car.

If the final interior has the empty well between the two front seats, I think that presents an opportunity for an aftermarket outfitter to come up with a console that can be installed with cup holders, compartments, loose change storage...whatever creature comforts desired.
�

Jkam said: ?

Tesla ain't changing the door handles. ONe of the goals was minimizing drag and wind resistance to improve the range of the car. Receding door handles, whether you like or don't like them, help reduce the drag on the car.
Click to expand...

You missed part of my original post. Aston Martin, for example (heck, even 80's Volvo 240) have receded door handles that do not add wind resistance that are completely manual.
�

Trnsl8r said: ?

...Aston Martin, for example (heck, even 80's Volvo 240) have receded door handles that do not add wind resistance that are completely manual.
Click to expand...

True enough. So does the GT-R.

Aston Martin V8 Vantage handle:

Here is a 2010 GT-R handle:

�

PopSmith said: ?

True enough. So does the GT-R.

Aston Martin V8 Vantage handle:
View attachment 3054

Here is a 2010 GT-R handle:
View attachment 3055 View attachment 3056
Click to expand...

Heck, I'd be happy with handles like that. And Tesla can still make them pop out -- swing out, I should say -- as the driver approaches. Then they'd have the advantage of still being able to work them manually if the mechanism fails.
�

Please put the cruise control on the left side of the steering wheel at the bottom. That's where it is on bmw's, and it's the perfect spot. I can steer and work the cruise with one hand, while the other is free to drink coffee etc.

I love the door handles as they are. In case you haven't read the features page on the Tesla website, the handles will pop out as your approach the car with the key in your pocket. So you should never have to wait for them to extend etc.

- mnx
�

mnx said: ?

Please put the cruise control on the left side of the steering wheel at the bottom. That's where it is on bmw's, and it's the perfect spot. I can steer and work the cruise with one hand, while the other is free to drink coffee etc....
Click to expand...

And the regen setting controls on the other side like the Prius CC!
�

I like the idea of trying to keep the area in front of the central armrest as clear as possible - all part of the look-no-transmission-tunnel appeal.

Can a briefcase fit into that space or do the two sidewalls that run along either side need to be higher to stop it tipping? Can a (Tesla branded) briefcase slide backwards, under the armrest?

Can the cupholders fold out from the inside surfaces of the sidewalls, so that the bases of any cups rest on the floor? Can the floor of that whole central section be an easy-clean surface (no carpet?) - and any beverage spills are safely contained between the sidewalls in this central "tray"?

Still not sure what to do with the central VDS.
�

Mycroft said: ?

The problem here is most likely because there isn't enough room at the bottom of the door to hold the window. So unless they completely redesign the rear of the car or they invent a roll-up window, it's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

I thoght there was some type of regulation at the federal level mandating the half open windows in the back for child safety ?!?!?!?
�

Kevin Harney said: ?

I thoght there was some type of regulation at the federal level mandating the half open windows in the back for child safety ?!?!?!?
Click to expand...

The rear windows on my 2011 bmw 335d go all the way down...
�

bonnie1194 said: ?

Same in my car! "Here, hold this." It's a great cupholder.
Click to expand...

Okay, in that case my cupholder is, uh, defective.
�

Kevin Harney said: ?

I thoght there was some type of regulation at the federal level mandating the half open windows in the back for child safety ?!?!?!?
Click to expand...

No, it's just a limitation of the door design of many cars. I have a car where they go all the way down.
�

Wife and I went to Menlo on Saturday afternoon to be able to spend some quality time in Model S. She HATES the gear selector. She wishes it would be like the Roadster as it feels more futuristic and is more intuitive than a stalk. We both like the door handles - we even got to play w/ them on Saturday. They work well. I agree with whoever posted earlier that if you hit the "unlock" button on the fob the driver's handle should extend immediately and if you hit it again then all handles should extend. That way you don't have to "wait" for the handles to extend. There's definitely some lost opportunity in the center storage area and one of the salespeople there on Saturday said they're going to be working on that area.

We're also worried about the distraction factor of the center screen. Drivers can't even talk on the phone or use a standard GPS while driving. WTF will happen when they're surfing the web and doing e-mail? I think my wife shocked the salesperson when she asked, "where's the button to blank the center screen?"

On the plus side, we like the exterior, the frunk, and LOVE the panoramic roof. Interested to drive it, as looking at it, it's quite a large vehicle. Hopefully it'll feel small on the road.

Oh, if Tesla is reading this, make sure there are LATCH anchors for car seats!
�

After digging around a bit (across the BMW/Lexus/Infiniti/Acura brands), found the closest match to the Model S's dash: The 2011 Acura RL!

Note how the dash flows well from left to right and the center is similar to the Model S's touchscreen "rectangle" but, blends well into the overall scheme unlike in the Model S (in my opinion):

I think bringing back the center console and designing it well for ample storage/cupholders/PRND-buttons while allowing the touchscreen console to "flow into" the storage area would still be the best design bet. I'll raise this with the Tesla contact and see how it goes.
�

strider said: ?

Oh, if Tesla is reading this, make sure there are LATCH anchors for car seats!
Click to expand...

At least the two side rear seats will have them -- it's federal law. It's possible (and awesome) if they put them in the center rear seat, but that's not something a lot of car manufacturers do in their sedans, particularly the ones that Tesla is "competing" with (BMW, Audi, MB etc.).

I doubt that the two way-back (backety-back?) seats would have latch -- they look more like booster seats, and are probably intended for any child out of a regular car seat (I think they listed ages at 4-11).
�

Agree with the last coupl'a comments about PRND buttons - shift selector sticks remind of me my first car about *ahem* 30 years ago......and I love my Roadster buttons.
�

Arnold Panz said: ?

I doubt that the two way-back (backety-back?) seats would have latch -- they look more like booster seats, and are probably intended for any child out of a regular car seat (I think they listed ages at 4-11).
Click to expand...

The jump-seats are sitting on top of the motor and are back to back with the normal rear seats. Agree on your points.
�

NigelM said: ?

Agree with the last coupl'a comments about PRND buttons - shift selector sticks remind of me my first car about *ahem* 30 years ago......and I love my Roadster buttons.
Click to expand...

I'll disagree here. I think a shift lever is better than pressing buttons. Pressing buttons requires you to look at them. I expect this to be much nicer than those old the steering column mounted shifters you're probably thinking of. Here there are only a few positions; all the way one way is forward, the other way, reverse. I think it would come naturally fairly quickly.

Many Roadster 1.5 drivers tell me they prefer their shift lever to the 2.x buttons.
�

shift lever ... also OK , but then something like the prius

�

My concern would be that you could accidentally bump that tiny lever. Hopefully there will be some sort of interlock to prevent accidental shifts.
�

Doug_G said: ?

My concern would be that you could accidentally bump that tiny lever. Hopefully there will be some sort of interlock to prevent accidental shifts.
Click to expand...

If it's like the Roadster, you have to have brake pressed down before you can switch gears so that'd work with the Model S too.
�

"shift-lock" of course
�

Doug_G said: ?

My concern would be that you could accidentally bump that tiny lever. Hopefully there will be some sort of interlock to prevent accidental shifts.
Click to expand...

My wife's been driving a MB for 5 years with the exact gear stalk that is in the Betas and neither of us have had the "accidential" hit on it. When I go from my car (Lexus hybrid) to hers, I'll sometimes inadvertantly try to use it to put on the windshield wipers, but it doesn't move while the car is in motion and/or the brake isn't depressed. It's perfectly safe and not in the way at all, and frankly becomes fairly intuitive after awhile. I think whatever you have (buttons, shift lever, stalk etc.) you'd get used to after a period of time.
�

I've accidentally flashed a few drivers when I flashed the high beams when I meant to resume or turn off the cruise control. :smile: It still seems weird to me to have two sticks on the left side of the steering wheel in my MB.
�

Cruise control, I definitely prefer as buttons on the steering wheel and not a stalk.
�

doug said: ?

Cruise control, I definitely prefer as buttons on the steering wheel and not a stalk.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. The Roadster's cruise control / turn blinker stalk is an excellent example of how not to do it.
�

On my Lexus, and other Toyotas, the stalk for cruise control is low on the right side of the steering wheel. It is by far the best location and function I have ever used. The steering wheel buttons on my Infiniti, which I've had for 18 months, are never comfortable or easy to use.
�

I have a Lexus and a Porsche Panamera and I far prefer the Panamera cruise control (lower left, push to set, up to resume, down to turn off).
�

After seeing some better interior photos, I think there are few other adjustments that TM could make other than the flat front seats. I say that TM should bring back the drive buttons back like in the concept. Move the front cup holders to the hopefully redesigned center console like in the concept but keep the sliding front arm rests. I think that a rear fold down arm rest with cup holder could be nice. I think that TM could add a rear outlet for cell phone charging just below the rear AC vents. I hope that TM add some hand grabs. Last thing...add a key holder for that awesome key.
�

If this thread is still about Model S Beta feedback (we do diverge a little), then I've got another comment about the dash. I'm not liking the touchscreen oriented toward the driver. Seem like it would make sense, but the driver should be driving. When my wife and I go somewhere, I drive and she sets the GPS. Given that the Model S will have Google Maps, Internet browsing, music, apps, and what have you, I think the screen should be just as accessible to the passenger as the driver. In fact, I expect that most couples will find that the passenger will be the primary user. That certainly will be the case with us.

Besides, it just looks off kilter.
�

mt2 said: ?

Besides, it just looks off kilter.
Click to expand...

How about some way to adjust it from say +15 degrees to -15 degrees (driver to passenger) you could use a side-view mirror motor and let the key tell you where to position it.
�

WhiteKnight said: ?

How about some way to adjust it from say +15 degrees to -15 degrees (driver to passenger) you could use a side-view mirror motor and let the key tell you where to position it.
Click to expand...

I had been thinking about this, but I think the drivers of course needs to access it as well (if only to operate the sunroof, adjust temperature, and things like that), and that means a) it needs to be in a predictable position, and b) that position needs to be a bit towards the driver. If anything, it might have two positions, if it is easy for the driver to turn it over, but it should never be all over the place in some unpredictable in-between position. But I'm not sure if even that is a good idea, perhaps better always towards the driver in a fixed position.
�

Norbert said: ?

I had been thinking about this, but I think the drivers of course needs to access it as well (if only to operate the sunroof, adjust temperature, and things like that), and that means a) it needs to be in a predictable position, and b) that position needs to be a bit towards the driver. If anything, it might have two positions, if it is easy for the driver to turn it over, but it should never be all over the place in some unpredictable in-between position. But I'm not sure if even that is a good idea, perhaps better always towards the driver in a fixed position.
Click to expand...

I agree that it should not move around. But my point is (still) that when there are two people in a car, the passenger is often the one fooling with the music, locating restaurants on the nav system, and so on. When you add the functions that Tesla will add plus as yet unknown functions of third-party apps, the passenger will likely be the primary user.

I don't think orienting it toward the driver enhances safety. I have no problem with my current nav system facing the back seat. I would have a problem if my wife needed to lean into my driving space to look up the location of the nearest Potbelly's. Expand the screen to 17 inches and add Internet restaurant reviews, and it becomes a real issue.
�

Maybe an optional second 12" screen...
�

Mycroft said: ?

I've accidentally flashed a few drivers when I flashed the high beams when I meant to resume or turn off the cruise control....
Click to expand...

Speaking of which, I would like the Model S has a muted pedestrian horn. Pulling the turn signal stalk flashes the brights and gives a quiet *bmmp* for parking lot safe navigation. All silent EVs need this
�

mt2 said: ?

...
I don't think orienting it toward the driver enhances safety. I have no problem with my current nav system facing the back seat. I would have a problem if my wife needed to lean into my driving space to look up the location of the nearest Potbelly's. Expand the screen to 17 inches and add Internet restaurant reviews, and it becomes a real issue.
Click to expand...

Maybe someone who rode shotgun at the ride event could weigh in on how visible and (in theory at least) accessible the screen was from the passenger seat?
�

Trnsl8r said: ?

Maybe someone who rode shotgun at the ride event could weigh in on how visible and (in theory at least) accessible the screen was from the passenger seat?
Click to expand...

It wasn't hard to see the screen.
�

This photo was taken from the passenger seat, but I'm not sure how well it represents the actual impression. I do remember having no difficulty reading the screen, though. It's a bit difficult to imagine how it would look different if the screen was straight. Seeing this, I'm also wondering whether it wouldn't be quite distracting for the driver if the co-pilot was web browsing for longer times, since the screen is so close to the steering wheel (which it has to be).

Photos from Sunday, October 2, 2011 (Model S event)

�

vfx said: ?

Speaking of which, I would like the Model S has a muted pedestrian horn. Pulling the turn signal stalk flashes the brights and gives a quiet *bmmp* for parking lot safe navigation. All silent EVs need this
Click to expand...

And I'd think better than fake motor noise.
�

vfx said: ?

Speaking of which, I would like the Model S has a muted pedestrian horn. Pulling the turn signal stalk flashes the brights and gives a quiet *bmmp* for parking lot safe navigation. All silent EVs need this
Click to expand...

And all cars in general should have this. Could have used it many times in the grocery store parking lot in various ICE vehicles.
�

Decor Suggestion: It would be nice to see brushed aluminium as one of the choices right along with Lacewood, Piano Black and Banana Leaf since aluminium is incorporated into the design of the S.
�

Norbert said: ?

if the co-pilot was web browsing for longer times, since the screen is so close to the steering wheel (which it has to be).
Click to expand...

They could dse an iPad or phone -- car has wifi hotspot capabilities no?

tdelta1000 said: ?

Decor Suggestion: It would be nice to see brushed aluminium as one of the choices right along with Lacewood, Piano Black and Banana Leaf since aluminium is incorporated into the design of the S.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I always felt Black leather with brushed aluminum accents looked nice.
�

AnOutsider said: ?

Agreed. I always felt Black leather with brushed aluminum accents looked nice.
Click to expand...

It really does.
�

Place an anti-glare coating on both screens.
�

Trnsl8r said: ?

You missed part of my original post. Aston Martin, for example (heck, even 80's Volvo 240) have receded door handles that do not add wind resistance that are completely manual.
Click to expand...

I saw a video with Franz where a reporter went to access the door handle with out the key fob. She pressed in on the handle and it extended - looks like it was spring loaded for manual use. I still like the Aston Martin rocker design better, but it looks like it will function manually if required.
�

Interior Palette Color: Add a mocha colored or a baseball glove colored leather to the offering and to make it exclusive offer it as a Signature color only.
�

tdelta1000 said: ?

Decor Suggestion: It would be nice to see brushed aluminium as one of the choices right along with Lacewood, Piano Black and Banana Leaf since aluminium is incorporated into the design of the S.
Click to expand...

+1 on the brushed aluminum. I'd go for it.
�

DaveVa said: ?

I saw a video with Franz where a reporter went to access the door handle with out the key fob. She pressed in on the handle and it extended - looks like it was spring loaded for manual use. I still like the Aston Martin rocker design better, but it looks like it will function manually if required.
Click to expand...

When I went to see the car in Santana Row they did not work, and the sales rep said it was because the main battery was "not engaged". If that was true (rather than that they simply didn't work but they didn't feel like saying that), it gives me pause... what if the main battery fails?
�

Just take the Ipad for your wife/passenger, it is a hot spot for up to 5 devices.
�

Trnsl8r said: ?

When I went to see the car in Santana Row they did not work, and the sales rep said it was because the main battery was "not engaged". If that was true (rather than that they simply didn't work but they didn't feel like saying that), it gives me pause... what if the main battery fails?
Click to expand...

The handles also have a manual option. It would be against federal regulations if they didn't.
�

Just like the Roadster
�

Doug_G said: ?

It wasn't hard to see the screen.
Click to expand...

It is an IPS screen which has amazing viewing angles, so that's not surprising. The only potential issue is glare, which they can hopefully minimize. It'd be nice if they can somehow use a matte screen rather than a highly reflective glass screen.
�

Trnsl8r said: ?

When I went to see the car in Santana Row they did not work, and the sales rep said it was because the main battery was "not engaged". If that was true (rather than that they simply didn't work but they didn't feel like saying that), it gives me pause... what if the main battery fails?
Click to expand...

The interior door latches are mechanical. Also the Model S reportedly has a regular 12V lead-acid car battery.

Although at first blush it sounds weird to have a lead-acid battery, I can see a number of reasons for it... not just for emergency back-up power for the headlights, etc. Another use would be powering 12VDC accessories - it would be more robust than the Roadster's switching supplies.

(Obviously the charger for the battery would be a switcher, but that will be very easy to protect against external abuse with a big lead-acid battery between it and the accessories.)
�

qwk said: ?

+1 on the brushed aluminum. I'd go for it.
Click to expand...

Me too - I hope it's not too late to add it to the options.
�

I too, love the idea of a mocha or saddle leather option for the Sig...
�

malcolm said: ?

I must have missed the answer to this next question:

Why are there three foot pedals in the Model S Betas? Is the clutch back in?
Click to expand...

That, I believe is the left foot rest; most manufactures use heavy rubber, Tesla dressed it up a bit. Here's an enhanced photo:

I would like to see the side doors have storage, preferable like the 2008 Lexus 350RX. They placed a hinge on the front which makes for easy access to storage in the door.

View attachment 3092
�

Adhering to the title of the thread and with high hopes that Tesla is actually reading and taking notes: I would really like to see a gray leather option; the color would perfectly complement many of the exterior paint colors. Black works as an interior color, however it absorbs the sun's heat and IMHO makes the interior space seem smaller; hence my preference for gray.
�

He, thanks for the g-force-neutral cup holder suggestions. I was hoping for a high-tech solution which doesn't swing like a pendulum, though.
But maybe it needs to.

Once I started thinking about it, I came up with some minor suggestions. In general I like the new interior and hope it basically stays that way

1) small shelf below 17" screen, maybe 3-4 inch high, to keep some stuff handy and in reach, like entry passes or a garage opener.
2) pockets on the back of the front seats, for passengers on the rear seats, like in an airplane
3) make sure "frunk" is theft protected, so one can keep valuables in there when leaving the car
4) standard, or not so expensive, rear view camera since LCD screen is already there
5) pedestrian/bicycle horn: meaning 2 horns, a normal loud one, and a soft one to use in parking lots to get pedestrian attention, for example
6) 17" screen -> black when not used for a while
7) be sure to keep Wh/mile graph, it's great
8) optionally GPS map next to speedometer (replacing music title)
9) 17" screen: a single view showing everything consuming electricity (internal/external lights, trunk/frunk lights, ventilator, seat heaters, etc)
10) for the smart phone app :
- Where is my car? GPS position on map (to find car when in parked unknown territory)
- Make car honk from the phone (to hear where it is)
- Make car flash lights for a second from the phone (to see where it is, from the distance, in a large parking structure, for example)

Another note: I like the exterior color "Monterey Blue", except it seems almost black, I would like to be maybe dark, but really blue.
�

Hi All, after soliciting some input (such as Norbert's above) from many of you, I had a good chat yesterday with a will-remain-unnamed Tesla employee at Menlo; these are the gleanings from that conversation (disclaimer: there's still probably some leeway on some of the items below but, Tesla is actually much further along than we have been speculating about):

- Said employee will forward the feedback regarding the touchscreen - make it "belong" with possibly rounded edges, glare protection, consider matte vs. glossy screen - to the design team. But, Tesla's approach to this is to be as minimalistic as possible so, the current design could very well prevail in the end.

- Same goes for feedback regarding extra storage and such (cup holders, 12V plugs, discrete and secured storage bins) in a slightly extended center console (that will still not go all the way to the dash so that the floor space is still available beneath the touchscreen) in addition to providing 3-4" of storage space right beneath the touchscreen for smartphones, iPods, garage openers, etc.

- Beta 1 apparently already has a good-sized glove compartment, USB port(s) beneath the rear AC vents and 8-way adjustable driver and front passenger seats.

- Seat back storage, rear cup holders (either as flip-out ones beneath the rear AC vents or as a dropdown from the middle seat), armrests in the doors, and slightly-perforated seats with heating will probably be addressed in Beta 2 or RC.

- Confirmed that the door handles open very quickly upon approach and will not retract given any obstruction in there. They'll stay open till the car is either driven or is locked (required by law apparently). Beta 1's door handles weren't fully ready (they were plastic rather than metal and were subject to failure with repeated use). The door handles can always be opened manually by pressing in on them.

- Confirmed that there'd be NO other electronic control (such as a button in the headliner) to close the pano roof.

- Rear-view camera would be there (possibly as an option); will forward request to make the display available both on the touchscreen as well as the driver's LCD screen.

- Blind Spot monitoring would be there (not sure if an option). Adaptive cruise control may not make it (even as an option).

- "Noise generator" will automatically be activated (mandated by federal law starting next year apparently) at low speeds.

- Front trunk will be secured by the alarm system and will not be accessible (along with the rear) in 'valet mode'.

- Faux leather and cloth (for vegans or otherwise) seat options will be made available in all likelihood.

- Will forward feedback regarding greater bolstering of the seats on the sides but, Tesla's trying to strike a balance between slalom runners and folks who might have trouble with bucket seats in general. Seats are still being finalized.

- Adjustable head rests are not on the table as of now.

- Interior trim is still being finalized, hopefully will include more options.

- Will forward concerns about the charge port door design with a view to making it more organic looking.

- Understood concerns (from Europeans in particular) about charging (3 phase, adaptors etc.). Set to meet with the engineers responsible for the charging part. Tesla will communicate better on this front soon.

- Regen WILL NOT be configurable as the Model S is heavier than the Roadster and hence, the default setting - at the maximum possible - will already reach the max regen-driven charge rate for the battery pack. This max regen will still not be felt in the Model S as much as in the Roadster. So, no adjustable regen steering wheel stalk.

--- If there's a chance that regen may be made configurable, it'll be via the touchscreen (it apparently is available there already, when the car is placed in "developer mode" by Tesla engineers).

- PRND WILL continue to be the steering stalk way which requires simple push up / push down / press-in actions. The result is shown in the driver's LCD screen. NO PRND buttons/stick in the center console.

- NO ventilated cooled seats as they are a huge power draw and need a cooling system separate from the main AC vents.

- Bundled packages of options like other luxury carmakers.

If you are still with me at the end of this long post :smile:, sorry, I don't really have a "scoop" here but, I hope some concerns were addressed. Btw, the betas will be back in the Bay Area stores this upcoming weekend for those who are interested.
�

Fairly understandable results that I can live with, if not thrilled with. Glad to see wood trim still under consideration! Woo hoo! Just can't get into the banana leaf stuff.

I would hope a car with an ass this big would have a rear camera. :scared:

"Noise generator" will automatically be activated (mandated by federal law starting next year apparently) at low speeds.
Click to expand...

There goes my dream of sneaking up and spooking the parking lot attendant.
�

Re seat bolsters: suggest that they come with the Sport option. That will strike the balance they are looking for...
�

Doug_G said: ?

Re seat bolsters: suggest that they come with the Sport option.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking. The sport model should have sporty seats. Non-sport = family seats.
�

Make flat planks for the fat ass. But I need sport seats as option. This is not negotiable. I'm not going to buy a "low CoG car" with "superb handling" and every time I'm going to use that capability, I have my shotgun sitting on lap. End of message.

Other deal breakers: glossy screen, no 3 phase adapter of any kind (yes, EU!), no parking sensor or camera, no steered headllights

Around my buying peroid at 2013 or 2014, the Model S 2.0 better have those options or I need to go BMW i3 or i5.
�

gg_wants_a_tesla said: ?

...Rear-view camera would be there (possibly as an option); will forward request to make the display available both on the touchscreen as well as the driver's LCD screen...
Click to expand...

This is enough of a safety feature, and generally useful to everyone that I hope they just make it standard.
One reason why it is an option on some cars is that they need to add a screen up front, but if all Model S have an LCD screen already...
�

teslamotorclub

Thứ Năm, 29 tháng 12, 2016

Feedback and suggestions regarding the Model S Beta part 1

Không có nhận xét nào:

Đăng nhận xét