Sep 22, 2015
Skotty I've always suspected that the power and instantaneous torque of the electric motors might be a problem for some of the mechanical components, and that the mechanicals will need to be beefed up further and/or very low speed power might need to be moderated. This could be the cause of the drive unit problems and also potentially the cause of early Roadster transmission problems. However, this hypothesis is just a gut feeling and completely without evidence.�
Sep 24, 2015
gavine I notice the term "failure" being used a lot. A noisy drive unit is not the same as a failure. I would think that the actual failure rate is extremely low. Maybe call it drive unit "issues" or something less catastrophic? If your ICE engine developed squeaky belts, you wouldn't call it an engine failure, would you?
I have recently developed the milling sound and I don't love it, but I don't plan on bringing it in to get looked at until it gets much worse. I'd rather wait until they have a permanent fix. For now, I can live with it. It's not terrible and I don't feel like I'm going to break-down or anything like that.�
Sep 24, 2015
Vitold Certainly it is possible it's normal wear and tear under specific conditions, however, no matter what the definition, noise should not be there because Tesla is a luxury car not a pickup truck.�
Sep 24, 2015
kort677 While it may not be a CATASTROPHIC failure it is a performance failure, I will not accept a malfunction like this to persist.
It took me a bit of squawking but I did have Tesla replace the drive unit on my car.
FWIW: I fully support those who feel the same way and are demanding action from Tesla to make their cars "right"
I would call it a failure, a failure of that belt, and I would have the offending part repaired or replaced as soon as possible.
my "toys" must operate and perform at levels of perfection, anything less is not acceptable, and I will always takes whatever steps are necessary to maintain that level of perfection.�
Sep 24, 2015
gavine I'm not saying they shouldn't fix it. They SHOULD. What I am saying is that we shouldn't call it a drive unit failure....that makes it sound like everyone is breaking-down on the road and needed a tow. Not that case at all.�
Sep 24, 2015
ecarfan @gavine, I think the point you are making is a reasonable one. To say that a noise somewhere in the car represents a "failure", is often not accurate. In your example of the squeaky belt, neither the engine nor the belt has failed. In the case of the Model S, the milling noise does not represent a failure of the car to be drivable, but the car is no longer operating as new. I agree with the general intent of this thread that noise that was not present when the car was new should be investigated and addressed if the noise is loud enough to be objectionable. Of course there is no hard and fast rule about how loud "objectionable" is. It is a subjective judgment.
Certainly one should not toss around words like "failure" to casually.You are seeking a level of performance and quality that does not exist in the real world.�
Sep 24, 2015
Max* It's not a failure, it's a design flaw.�
Sep 24, 2015
Vitold EDIT: Are you saying that the noise is nature of the design? It could be, however from what we know it's rather hard to make such claim. I think clang noise could be a result of design tolerances, and gear wear but milling noise is rather a mystery at this point.�
Sep 24, 2015
Max* I don't have a deep enough understanding of why the noise is starting. What I do understand is that if Tesla has to keep refurbishing drive units, due to noise, and putting a shim in, those are patches which are not fixing the underlying problem. So to me that implies there is an underlying problem = design flaw.
Just like the door handles. The first version (which protruded completely out) kept breaking, so they released a second version which doesn't protrude all the way out to fix the design flaw. It helped, but it's still not perfect. So I forsee either a 3rd version coming out, or them to do what they do with the DU and just replace it when it breaks.�
Sep 24, 2015
Cyclone I'm with Max on this one. It could be an undetermined or unsolved design flaw, but I view it as a design flaw. The difference in my car between the DU with the milling sound and the current one is significant. I never actually thought of my car as nearly silent until it got the replaced drive unit.�
Sep 24, 2015
AmpedRealtor There's failure and then there's failure. While the noisy drive units are not technically failing, having a noisy drive unit on a $100,000 car is definitely a failure of the car to meet reasonable expectations. Indeed, a drive unit becoming noisier over time is, in itself, a failure because the unit is not functioning properly. Nobody wants a noisy car, especially when we know that the noise is abnormal and indicative of a problem somewhere. I don't think a problem needs to rise to the level of an outright hardware failure in order to be perceived as a failure to the owner to deliver on the car's promise.�
Sep 24, 2015
Vitold According to this thread Model X is not using SKF bearings - since Tesla used to(?) use SKF perhaps they switched due to failures?�
Sep 25, 2015
gavine According to that thread, the "electric motor bearings" are made by Koyo, however, the "ball bearings" are made by SKF. Not sure what the difference is. I assumed the electric motor bearings are indeed ball bearings. Perhaps Koyo makes the bearing enclosure but uses SKF ceramic balls?�
Sep 25, 2015
Soolim Your question make sense, but we will never know.:wink: Maybe someone from SKF or Koyo would like to comment?�
Sep 25, 2015
MTOman I had the same problem a few months ago. I had my first DU replaced around 10k miles and around 20k I started hearing it again, but wasn't quite as loud. As time went on it got louder until around 25k everyone started asking what it was and if it was normal, but Tesla said it was within spec. It kept getting worse so I kept bringing it up anytime it was in for service. During my last service appointment at 35k they replaced it again. Such a relief having a quiet car again!!
I was never worried it would fail and leave me stranded, it didn't seem like that kind of problem, but it sure was embarrassing! It became all anyone talked about when they saw they car and that's not what you want or expect with a car like this. In my experience, Tesla will eventually replace your DU but not until it becomes loud enough to turn the heads of bystanders as you drive by
�
Sep 25, 2015
Electric700 It really does look like they have a design issue that needs to be addressed. Tesla should be notified of this, and you can try contacting [email�protected].�
Sep 26, 2015
Freudianly It may be an unsolvable problem with a motor spinning so fast. The only solution would be to increase its size.�
Sep 26, 2015
ecarfan Is there anyone who lives near San Mateo CA on the SF Bay peninsula who has this milling noise who would be willing to meet up with me tomorrow for a few minutes so I could hear the noise? My car does not have it, but I am curious as to what it sounds like after all this discussion. You can PM me. Thanks.�
Sep 26, 2015
Soolim Increasing the physical size by going to lower rpm is a gigantic challenge, due to space issue. If the noise is from the ball bearing, possible solution could be magnetic bearing. We used that on turbo blowers of comparable rpm and larger kW.�
Sep 26, 2015
ZsoZso My car started making this noise about a month ago, first it was less noticable, but over time it got worse, and now it is irritating when driving at low speeds in the city. I am waiting for my first annual checkup and I have mentioned this problem to them so they will have a look. Unfortunately, I have to wait a month for the first available appointment...�
Sep 26, 2015
FOCUSEV I just finished reading all 14 pages of this thread, this problem causes me some concern. I am waiting till the 29TH reveal of all the features of the Model X prior to confirming my order of a 70D Model S. I just want to make sure there is no super cool feature the Model X has that will then be available from that time on the Model S also (like a bike rack hitch or something). I have driven an electric vehicle for the past 30+ thousand miles (Ford Focus Electric) with nothing needed other than tire rotation and washer fluid. This problem sounds to me like perhaps it is a lubrication issue. With the super low drag synthetic fluids for gear lubrication being used in all vehicle transmissions and drive axle units in order to achieve more range or mileage. Most manufactures have entire engineering teams dedicated only to "Noise, Vibration, and Harshness issues. Old 90 or 140w gear oil could quiet and smooth out a lot of tolerance issues due to high mileage or high load.�
Sep 26, 2015
mhpr262 Hard to believe that egineers today are unable to solve the problem of a driveshaft spinning in bearings, after almost 200 years of electric motors.�
Sep 27, 2015
Ingineer Oh it's definitely solvable. We have plenty of prior art examples of high-speed and enormous power systems that are rugged and durable. It's a cost issue.�
Sep 27, 2015
JRP3 One thing I did not see clearly delineated in this thread is the difference between motor bearings and transaxle bearings. I believe the discussion about thrust loads and gears applies to the transaxle bearings and the discussion about voltage induced failures would apply to the motor bearings, which, being ceramic, should not happen. My assumption has always been that the noise issues are related to the transaxle bearings.�
Sep 27, 2015
Ingineer Yes, from what I've learned it's the diff carrier case bearings that fail and that Tesla has a shim kit for. If one end of the motor bearings are ceramic or they use an insulator bushing (common practice) this will stop the eddy current arcing problem.�
Sep 27, 2015
timdorr So, my car has developed this milling noise recently (after having a battery contactor failure a few weeks ago, resulting in a battery replacement). It's gotten worse over the previous week and is pretty noticeable at anything 10MPH and up. Should I be worried it's going to break down on me?
In particular, I have a trip of about 200 miles to make in the next couple weeks, before my service appointment. Should I resort to our backup Prius for that trip?�
Sep 28, 2015
kort677 if the cicada like sound is the only thing that is not right with the car I would think that the chances of that drive unit issue causing a catastrophic failure is quite low.
take your trip but be aware that the more miles you add to the car in the condition the louder the sound might become.
Get the car to a service center, have them record the sound so some engineer at the mother ship can authorize a drive unit replacement.�
Sep 28, 2015
Freudianly Elon explained that a few years ago many companies refused to sell them parts, fearing Tesla would soon go bankrupt. Maybe Tesla did not have access to the best, costliest technology.�
Sep 28, 2015
Forty Creek My service centre advised that the milling sound I'm experiencing requires a DU replacement but that there are quite a few cars ahead of me waiting for the same thing. Unfortunately, the wait seems to be on the order of 3+ months until they are able to get to my car. In the meantime they say there is 'little chance' that the DU will fail. They indicated that the very long wait is due in part to the local service centre being very small and cramped. They can only work on two cars at a time and must wait for the DU's to be serviced and returned. The sound is very annoying and is indeed getting louder. We too have a long drive planned (to Florida 2600 miles return) and I'm hoping to somehow have the issue fixed before we leave, if only to alleviate the noise.�
Sep 28, 2015
pgiralt I wouldn't worry about it completely breaking down. I had two replacements due to milling and both times I ran with the car for several thousand miles before getting the replacement.�
Sep 28, 2015
mknox This is where I'm at. People ask "what is that sound?" and I have to explain that it is an "anomaly" that requires fixing. I try to downplay it, but invariably, I get comments like "a car costing this much shouldn't do that" and such. By myself, I usually have the audio cranked up a bit which masks the sound, but when I have passengers, you can really hear it. With the windows down, I can hear it reflecting off curbs, concrete walls and such.
I've probably put at least 10,000 miles on mine since it started.�
Sep 28, 2015
Ingineer Possibly, but now they shouldn't have that problem. Even when the new "D" transaxles were designed they wouldn't have had this issue. This transaxle is in the front and rear of my 70D and I've heard plenty of reports of failures in these, both front and rear.
If you get a "reman" drive unit, I could understand this one having the same problem again, but what about the new ones with high revision numbers? How can they still be failing and why isn't Tesla bringing in whatever engineering support they need to fix it? It seems like the cost to let them keep failing again and again is way higher than re-engineering it so the problem gets solved. (By "cost" I mean both direct $ and loss to their future reputation which could be way more harmful!)�
Sep 28, 2015
qwk Tesla cares very little about it's reputation, and seems to spend more money to "patch" problems instead of getting a proper fix. I'm sure in the end it costs them much more that just fixing the problem would have, both monetarily and in goodwill.�
Sep 28, 2015
AmpedRealtor What makes this even sadder, or more pathetic, is that Tesla manufactures the drive units in-house. It has complete control of the process, from design to manufacture. With that kind of control, these issues should have been permanently resolved in manufacturing almost as soon as they occurred. Yet here we are. Tesla's behavior over this issue is no different than its behavior in every other regard when it comes to problems with the car: Make it the owner and service's problem. Tesla is clearly focused on new deliveries, and as a result, they are willing to offload problems onto the ownership base to be handled through the service centers. This is why many service centers are overworked and booked months in advance. This situation has not changed since 2013. Plenty to be concerned about, in my opinion.�
Sep 28, 2015
Freudianly Milling Through the Mire - Tesla Model S Drive Unit Woes. - EVTV Motor Verks
Conclusion of this interesting article : "I fear the ultimate solution is a 6 second acceleration rate � which I could live with just fine actually. I believe they will find the answer is a few lines of software code, but the answer will not be very satisfying to those who liked the performance claim on this car."�
Sep 28, 2015
brkaus So, if there is truth in this... Are there other ways to get the performance? Direct drive? Multiple gears, but hold back the application of power? (Might cost in the 0-30, but could help in passing power)�
Sep 28, 2015
timdorr I've got a SC appointment for the 15th (their earliest). They had mentioned the acoustic testing as well. They've already got my battery at the mothership, so they might as well take my drive unit too
OK, good. Given the relative nonchalance of the service technician who did a ride-along with me to check the noise, it seems like I won't be having a complete breakdown any time soon. I had a less-than-great roadside assistance experience when my battery contactor blew, so I'm mainly hoping to avoid that again�
Sep 28, 2015
qwk That won't work. The much detuned Rav4 EV which uses the same drive unit has the same problems.�
Sep 28, 2015
Ingineer Yeah, I don't believe it's occurring because of launches. There have been several members here that have had multiple replacements and drive very calmly. Now, I would imagine once it starts making noise, it may well be that high-peak-power launching will exacerbate the wear.�
Sep 28, 2015
JRP3 For those unfamiliar with Jack, always remember he often speaks utter nonsense, but does so with conviction, and even when faced with contrary evidence will not change his mind. (His most recent video has him simultaneously claiming that Nissan LEAF owners were not seeing actual range loss but simply a gauge error, while citing a study clearly showing range loss, and talking about Nissan replacing packs because of this loss. The mind is boggled.)�
Sep 28, 2015
apaloma My car had the milling noise. I brought it up months ago and was told the usual "nothing to worry about, just a nuisance, fine to drive, we have a fix for this coming out and will put you on the waiting list."
Last week while I was making a turn on a city street, a loud clunk came from the back of the car and pushing the accelerator would no longer move the car forward. Pushing the accelerator would make a noise like pulsing a blender. I coasted off the side of the road and had to get a tow. The car showed no alerts the whole time and it sounded like the tech on the phone saw nothing interesting in the logs. The service center replaced the drive unit the next day and drove me from my house which was nice. I wish Tesla would be a bit more proactive about this problem though.
26,800 miles�
Sep 28, 2015
Freudianly Another article, another conclusion :
http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2014/08/tesla-model-s-drive-unit-now-has.html
"When you take into consideration how common transmission failures are within the automotive industry and how high performance the Tesla Model S is, it's not so surprising to find the powertrain needs some mechanical debugging. For example, Subaru have been making the Impreza WRX since 1992 yet after two decades in production this high performance model is still prone to transmission failure. The only sure way to avoid mechanical transmission issues / losses is to delete all gearing and differentials from the vehicle by using direct drive wheel motors."�
Sep 28, 2015
evp Disagree. Driving at low speed (like 2 MPH), you can clearly hear that the repetition rate of the noise is at motor RPMs, not wheel RPMs. Given a gear ratio of 9 to 1, it's not at all ambiguous.�
Sep 29, 2015
JRP3 The input gear in the transaxle is turning at motor speeds. Each gear in the transaxle has it's own bearing.�
Sep 29, 2015
mknox Yep. Me for one. My SC told me the problem is more prevalent on P cars, but mine is just a basic S85 and I do drive very sedately.�
Sep 29, 2015
kort677 FWIW: I wouldn't put much faith into what you are told by an SC person, they sometimes are not in the "loop" and will say things just to placate you.�
Sep 29, 2015
evp OK, good point. It didn't occur to me that there might be a bearing in the transaxle immediately next to the one in the motor.�
Sep 29, 2015
qwk It sounds like the rotor shaft splines stripped in your drive unit. Did you have a "clunk" when going between acceleration/deceleration before the failure?�
Sep 30, 2015
evp Great. I talked to the service center today, they have drive units back in stock, gave me a service date a month from now to swap it out. Given I'm 12,000 miles farther along than you, I hope I don't hear that "clunk" sound before then.�
Sep 30, 2015
MikeC That article is over a year old and time seems to have disproven the fears. They have decreased the acceleration rate and there does not seem to be a higher incidence of the milling noise. The drive unit obviously does not need to be changed every "8000 or 10,000 miles" as stated in the article.�
Sep 30, 2015
smrtasp I bought a 2013 P85+ 3 weeks ago with 26k miles on it and noticed a low drone on the freeway right away. Knowing that it needed to go in to have the battery shield installed I mentioned the drone to my service advisor when I dropped the car off Tuesday morning. They did the road test and recording and got a replacement approved within 24 hours. I pick it up tomorrow morning. I didn't think the noise was all that bad but apparently enough to warrant replacement. The tech I talked to said its more common on P85's and said the new motors have a few design changes to prevent this from happening again.�
Oct 1, 2015
tornado7 So I have been following this thread for a while now very closely and it ultimately made me sign up on TMC.
I plan on buying a CPO car in spring 2016 and this whole DU swapping is quite unsettling to me. Ok, there is the 8 year unlimited warranty on the drivetrain and battery, but still. The issue is still here even on the very new 70D's. And taking your tesla to the SC for replacement of the motor (!) every 20'000m surely is not a longterm solution. Earlier it has been mentioned by ConsumerReports via user vgrinshpun that only a very small number of cars (1-3%) are affected of all these different kind of noises finally leading to Tesla replacing the DUs of your cars. But my impression by following this thread is a very different one. Especially if there really is a design flaw not only some poorly manufactured units.
There must be PLENTY of owners not experiencing this problem at all. � Is that true? (Or did it just not yet happen to them?)
And are there any statements yet of staff newly trained to fix units on site on what the issue really is about?�
Oct 1, 2015
ecarfan Yes of course there are, they just don't bother to post: "Another day driving and my Model S isn't making any funny noises, just thought I would post about that because it's so interesting."
People who perceive a problem with their car are far, far more likely to post than people who are not having a problem. This has been pointed out over and over again on TMC.�
Oct 1, 2015
supratachophobia I've noticed that it takes longer for some to notice than others. And other peoples threshold of what they consider a problem is different too. I think all will enentually have a drive unit swap before that 8 year mark....�
Oct 1, 2015
Ingineer I'm also hoping that this is the case. If it's not and many owners continue to need DU replacements after warranty, I suspect even if Tesla doesn't step up and handle it "goodwill" then there will likely be a class-action. I was worried at first but after thinking about it, I'm less worried.
After experiencing a handful of quality issues with my car when new, my conclusion is that they have likely fixed the main problems, but when a new owner experiences this failure now, it's probably due to sloppy assembly.
It's clear to me that many cars roll off the assembly line with lots of little issues that should have been caught by QC or not have happened in the first place if they had proper procedures. If you happen to be an unlucky one who had their DU assembly rushed, then maybe you'll experience the early failure. There are too many people not having issues for it to be a gross engineering failure.�
Oct 1, 2015
scaesare My 5/2013 vintage S85 is under the knife for it's second DU replacement due to noise as we speak. First "DU warranty" work on the vehicle, as it's now @ 55K miles...�
Oct 2, 2015
scaesare And to follow up, my car is back from the Service Center and is nice and silent.
I had a good conversation with the one of the service managers there, whom I've now known for nearly 2.5 years, about some of the concerns raised in this thread.
While I want to respect the fact that it was a private conversation, and thus not quote it on a public forum, suffice it to say I remain convinced that Tesla as a whole, including HQ, is committed to doing things right by their customers... including dealing with issues such as the pesky drive unit noises.
As always I was taken care of with excellent service, and I came away confident that Tesla will continue to treat us right.�
Oct 2, 2015
apaloma I've seen the videos of the noise when going between acceleration and regen breaking, but I had never noticed anything like that. Never got a chance to double check though
Tesla service told me in an email followup that the humming noise is unrelated to the splines and that the failure I experienced was unrelated to the humming noise I had reported. Not sure what makes them say that or how they know that for sure, but that's what they said.�
Oct 7, 2015
smrtasp I replied earlier in this thread about my DU getting replaced as well last week. I drove the car a bit hard today and also noticed that Im not getting the same rear end squat I used to under hard acceleration. The first time I accelerated in full from about 40 MPH on the freeway I almost lost control of the car because the front end jumped so much it caught me off guard. I had noticed that under hard acceleration a pretty noticible lift in the front which I attributed to the rear squatting so much. Today with similar conditions on the same stretch of road, the rear barely squats which keeps the front from jumping so much. It feels like a normal high power/torque RWD vehicle again. I did this a few times at different speeds and that rear drop is definitely nowhere near as bad as it was before. Im going to check the invoice and look at all the parts. I know the motor mounts were replaced but wasnt familiar with the other half dozen part numbers.�
Oct 7, 2015
kenkamm When the DU is replaced, are certain suspension components replaced as well?�
Oct 7, 2015
Cyclone Not on my car, but they had to retrofit the motor side mounts in my car and that caused some shifting of the wiring in my trunk.�
Oct 7, 2015
AmpedRealtor Don't believe it. I've had three DU replacements and I have only floored my car twice and hardly ever accelerate aggressively. In fact, my first DU replacement took place at 500 miles - I hardly even had a chance to drive the thing. My average consumption is 296 Wh/mi. I drive it very gently with an eye more towards efficiency than speed/acceleration. If I need three replacements in 18,000 miles as delicately as I drive, from my perspective it has nothing to do with the car's torque and power.
One forum member had his DU replaced and the replacement exhibited the same issue before he made it off the service center lot.�
Oct 7, 2015
yobigd20 Not replaced but they have to pull out the suspension components to get the DU out and then put them back. That's why an alignment is always included whenever the DU is pulled out, it's a requirement. So if anyone's rear end is squirly after a DU swap it's probably the alignment was done bad and needs to be done again.�
Oct 7, 2015
apacheguy So what's the current hardware revision of the latest and greatest DUs that are getting put in? I think we had -N, but that was before the "new and better fix" was discussed.�
Oct 7, 2015
Cyclone -N was what was put into my S85 back in July.�
Oct 10, 2015
kenkamm Got my car back today, and it's back to normal. No more milling noise! I'm happy. The noise was getting progressively louder and it's such a relief to have the car quiet again. Thanks again to the Rockville MD service center team!
Here are the details of the parts replaced.
�
Oct 10, 2015
Ingineer Glad to hear it, let's hope it lasts! Note that you got a remanufactured DU, not new. My question is; have they made engineering changes on the reman units to stop the failure, or is it just the same stuff, just buying more time?�
Oct 10, 2015
mkjayakumar AmpedRealtor - you are famous now. Your eloquent observations a few posts earlier about your drive units was picked up and quoted verbatim in an article today by a Seeking Alpha bear troll.�
Oct 10, 2015
X-Wing Amongst reports from major media outlets, analysts at different institutions, to what's on the Bloomberg terminals, these blogs and posts are just tiny noises not even worth mentioning IMHO.�
Oct 11, 2015
mkjayakumar That is very true. These trolls don't matter one wee bit, either for TSLA or for making a dent on prospects buying decisions.
On the other hand a FUD hit piece from WSJ or a less than stellar report from CR, or on the flip side the pump&dump recommendations from Morgan Stanley's Adam Jonas - they all have a big impact at least short term.�
Oct 11, 2015
AmpedRealtor This would make it the third time that I've been quoted in some Tesla hit piece. Whatevs.�
Oct 19, 2015
AlbertOnMars I just started experiencing the milling sound midway along a 5,000 miles road trip in my Model S. I started in Austin, Texas, and I'm currently in Portland, Oregon. I first noticed the sound a day after I arrived in Portland, and I called the Tesla Service phone number last Friday afternoon. They told me that the sound was not a safety issue and just an annoyance. I told them I wanted to take the car to the Portland Service Center, but that I would not be able to make it there on Friday. So, I arranged to go down there first thing Monday morning (today).
The sound is identical to that in the second video posted in this thread (the recording made in a parking garage). You can clearly hear it during acceleration at lower speeds, and I can also hear it during regeneration at slow speeds. At first I thought it could only be heard in the car, but putting down my windows revealed that it's quite audible outside the car as well. I can very easily modulate the sound as someone else described in this thread.
Another issue then popped up after I called the Tesla Service number. The first time I drive the car after it's been sitting for a while, I can smell a strong, burning smell inside the cabin. It's a very unpleasant smell, and it goes away after a few minutes. This, to me, is more alarming than the milling sounds.
I brought my car to the Portland service center this morning. I described the burning smell I am experiencing when I start driving the car after it has been sitting for a while. The service advisor stated that it's not unusual for the heating system to produce a smell from dust burning off after it hasn't been used for a while. I am skeptical of this explanation, as I had two overnight stays on my journey where the outside temperature was 40 degrees one morning and 45 degrees another morning. The heater was on to warm up the cabin both of these times, and I experienced no unusual smells then. If there was a significant amount of dust to be burned off, it surely would have done so during those times when the heater was operating for an extended period of time.
A tech made a recording of the noise from within the car while I drove it around briefly. The advisor stated they would pull the logs for the car, and get feedback from engineering as to how to proceed. He said that if they did have to replace the drive unit, they'd have to get one from the factory and it would take 3-6 days to arrive. Well, since I'm driving down to Fremont tomorrow to get a tour of the factory on Wednesday, that obviously would not be convenient. When I told him that, he said that if they did authorize replacing the drive unit, it might be faster for them to do so at the factory. The tech advisor told me the tech who recorded the sound described it as the "milling noise".
Being in the middle of a long road trip (which has been great up to this point), I'm greatly concerned about having the drive unit fail in the middle of some leg of my journey. The noise is one thing and annoying (very noticeable, inside and out), but the new smell is more alarming. I have not put many miles on the car since arriving in Portland, so driving down to Fremont will be the first extended drive of the vehicle since these issues appeared. I am going to continue my journey as planned (especially since I have a tour scheduled for Wednesday), and will obviously pay close attention to both issues. I have turned off the climate control system to see if the smell persists.
To me, the milling sound is unacceptable. The car used to be completely silent, and now I hear this sound anytime I accelerate from a stop or I'm driving a lower speeds (such as in the city), even when I have music playing (unless it's playing loudly). It's especially noticeable when accelerating from a stop or decelerating to a stop. You can easily hear it from outside the car as well
For those keeping track, I'm driving a late 2014 S85 with less than 15,000 miles on the clock.�
Oct 19, 2015
kort677 sometimes adding too many moves complicates things unnecessarily you should consider being sure that you get a firm authorization
from the people in portland, watch them log it into the system and get a hard copy, then try to get the fix at fremont or just wait until you get home. The noise isn't going to cause any failure in the short term, it is just annoying. Good luck�
Oct 19, 2015
gavine I get a burning smell from the heater too. That was my first thought when you mentioned it.�
Oct 19, 2015
AlbertOnMars I didn't get a hard copy, but I'm pretty sure they logged it into the system. They had a printout of my issue when I arrived, as a result of my previous call to the service number. And the service tech added the audio recording and his comments to my issue. I plan on arriving early in Fremont so I can talk to them before my scheduled tour.
I don't expect a failure short-term, but it is annoying, and I still have to drive 2,500 before I get home.
- - - Updated - - -
Tomorrow morning before we head south towards California, I will make sure the environmental controls are off. If after driving for five minutes I don't smell anything, I'll then turn on the heater and see if I get that same smell.�
Oct 19, 2015
mknox I think that's just dust being burned off the heating elements that haven't been used all summer. I notice it around this time every year in my car. It goes away. I have a rental property with electric baseboard heat. Same thing when you first turn them back on in the fall.�
Oct 28, 2015
AlbertOnMars A quick update on my issue. I'm nearly back home, after driving over 5,000 miles on this particular trip. The milling noise hasn't gotten any worse (as far as I can tell), and the car seems to be just fine outside of that. The burning smell I experienced several times in Portland has been mostly absent since I made my initial post above. I did actually smell it for the first time in over a week this morning, and it probably is related to the heater. So, I'm no longer concerned about that.
As for the drive unit, I stopped at the Fremont service center (at the factory) to get their opinion. They suggested that I call my local service center so they could work on the issue with me. I contacted them and they have ordered a replacement drive unit and will be replacing it on November 18th.
I've had plenty of opportunity to listen to the noise with the windows down, at low speed, and it's pretty loud from the outside of the car. It's an unusual noise, so I'm sure people are wondering what the heck it is as I drive by (or as I'm accelerating next to them when the light turns green). It will be very nice to have silence again, as well as not having to worry about the issue getting worse and potentially causing failure of the drive unit.�
Oct 30, 2015
Freudianly From this comment: TrueDelta: Tesla Is Least Reliable Automotive Brand - Model S Repair Frequency Is 2 To 3 Times Worse Than Average
It seems that on average a random Model S will get its drive unit replaced once every 9 years. Those stats may improve over time. Or they may worsen. We will see. Nonetheless, my conclusion is that it is one less obstacle on the road to my purchase of a Tesla.�
Oct 30, 2015
green1 Just keep in mind that TrueDelta statistics are 100% useless for any form of statistical analysis. TrueDelta relies on self reporting by owners, this ALWAYS causes horrible statistical inaccuracies and a strong bias towards showing more problems than really exist as owners with no problems have no incentive to look for places to report that.
The only reasonable studies are ones that actively seek out owners and interview them regardless of if they have issues or not. CR is about the only one so far, and although they rate the car below average in reliability, if you look at the actual data they post, it seems the car is extremely reliable, except for a few creaks and squeeks which probably wouldn't even be heard in most other cars.�
Oct 30, 2015
Freudianly No. CR statistics were over optimistic at first, since with time they are reaching the same conclusion as TrueDelta. Or put another way: CR stats' evolution may show a quick degradation of the Model S that was first shown by the most disgruntled Model S owners who reported their problems to TrueDelta. You made me reconsider: maybe I should wait a couple more years before concluding anything about the reliability of Tesla cars.�
Nov 5, 2015
ZsoZso I had the milling noise since August. Since my car was due for annual maintenance in September, I thought I'll ask them to check it out during that. However, the first appointment available was at the end of October (last Friday) so that is when I got the service. I told them about the milling noise, they said they will look at it. But when I picked up the car, there wasn't any word about that on the service record / invoice I got. When I asked about it, I was told it was fine nothing to concern myself about. But I have the feeling they just brushed me off and simply did not want to deal with it. I can hear a noise even if the car is just rolling ahead very slowly using creep mode.
I am not happy, but I do not know what is the best action at this point. Should I try to escalate it, insist on another service appointment to have it checked ?�
Nov 5, 2015
trils0n TrueDelta suffers from what is called "self-selection bias" in the statistics world. Any form of selection bias, including self-selection bias, increases the likelihood the sample is not random, nor representative of the population. A random, representative sample is required to draw accurate results. CR's method is better at producing a random, representative sample. (FWIW, I think the fact that CR survey noted an increase in drive system repairs in early, but fairly new (<3yr old) cars is troubling, but hopefully Tesla's new drive unit's are more durable and reliable)�
Nov 6, 2015
Freudianly Hope is not scientific.�
Nov 8, 2015
neroden It's a design flaw. It appears to lead to a wear issue where it gets worse and worse and eventually breaks the drivetrain. Your drivetrain *WILL* need replacement. Not immediately, but eventually.
Arguably it's better to wait because Tesla is revising the drivetrain as we speak. Whenever you do get a replacement, demand the newest design. But get it done before your warranty runs out; start pushing hard on it at least a year before your warranty ends, to make sure that you get it done.�
Nov 20, 2015
Worand Would you mind posting a recording of the noise so that we know what it's like and what to listen out for?�
Feb 3, 2016
alexucf My car's in the Orlando SC now for what I think might be this issue. I was told they recorded it and the engineers said it was within it's proper threshold. The fact that just seemed to show up one day after 18k miles is incredibly disconcerting.
Basically whenever I hit the accelerator there's a weird buzz on top of the normal whirl of the motor. I hadn't heard about it being referred to as a "cicada" sound until just now searching around on the forums, but that really might be the best way to describe it.
The noise drives me ****ing crazy. Even my 3 and 4 year old kids ask about it.
...Yay.�
Feb 3, 2016
docrice I made another recording of this sound, only this time with the mic placed outside next to the charging port.
It would help to have an omnidirectional mic with a larger pickup range, but I think I captured it better than in my previous video. This sound never really bothered me but once I opened the sunroof while driving in a parking garage, then I really started to get annoyed. Now I can't get it out of my head.�
Feb 4, 2016
kennybobby Try Putting the microphone in the trunk under the carpet right above the gearbox. Too much wind noise with the outside mic.�
Jul 22, 2016
ZsoZso An update on my case: I took my car to the service centre last Monday (July 18th), asked them to diagnose the noise in addition to fixing the front-passenger door-handle that stopped working. Got back my car Wednesday morning, they said the noise was recorded and sent to engineering in California along with all telemetrics to figure out how they can fix it (whether it can be shimmed or needs replacement drive unit). They should get back to me with a solution in a few weeks.�
Jul 22, 2016
supratachophobia Holy hell, that sounds like pitted bearings due to electrolysis inside the drive unit.�
Jul 22, 2016
KZKZ If you've had this problem since last August, you are a very, very patient person.
I hope they fix the problem this time.�
Jul 22, 2016
KZKZ Any updates on getting Tesla to fix the problem?�
Jul 22, 2016
Fusion My rav4 ev made the milling sound and it was loud as hell. It was a lease so I just continued to drive it for 2 years with that sound. The new owner took it in and it will be replaced.�
Jul 22, 2016
jcaspar So you have to put your ear next to the charging port or in the trunk while driving to hear it??�
Jul 22, 2016
cgiGuy Funny you mentioned this.. one drove past me today and I heard the milling noise from it with my windows up and radio on.�
Sep 7, 2016
ZsoZso Final update: The drive unit was replaced on my car last week, now it is nice and quiet. The replacement was made under warranty at no cost to me, so I am happy.�
Sep 7, 2016
evp Sounds exactly like my experience. Which version of the drive unit did they install? Mine got the "-Q" iteration, which seems to be the magic number.�
Sep 7, 2016
Ingineer And, was it a NEW or REMAN unit?�
Sep 8, 2016
ZsoZso Based on the Service Invoice, I got a -Q unit too:
ASY,P- TRAIN,RMN,MDLS,BASE,CMC,HS,FA2+ (1025276-00-Q)
ASY,HV COVER,INVERTER (1003783-00-B) 1
How do I find out that ? I copied above the line from the service invoice, it does not seem to mention either keyword.�
Sep 8, 2016
Ingineer RMN means Remanufactured.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét