Apr 11, 2013
walla2 I somewhat dislike that my Sig Performance still cost more than a brand new loaded Performance Plus. The free $15 monogrammed bag doesn't seem to narrow that difference much. Lesson learned, don't buy a Sig X or Sig Gen III unless you wish to burn money instead of gas. Maybe the other lesson is defer your regular X until it gets fixed / upgraded, and you can get locked in the lower price point with more features.
[Mod note] This thread was created from posts in the Tesla Performance Plus Package (parking Assist)) thread.�
Apr 11, 2013
brianman Ouch. Agree, but that still stings.�
Apr 12, 2013
patp I totally agree. I love my car but getting a Sig was not good value. I only got my car 60 day prior to my neighbor - got all the bugs - and paid more... No more sig for me unless they fix that and give some free upgrades but I doubt it.
Now I want Perf + and cold weather package and park assist.�
Apr 13, 2013
smorgasbord Are you sure about that? Here's a loaded Perf Plus without rear facing seats:
That's $115,520.00 before rebate. I don't think any Sig Perf got to that level, even when you added in the destination fee.
Not that I'm saying Sig was worth it. It wasn't for Roadster and it didn't seem like it'd be worth it for Model S either. For that matter, the Roadster "Final Five" was also so not worth the added cost.
The reason to get Sig was because you're an Early Adopter (or Innovator, even). See Diffusion of Innovations.�
Apr 13, 2013
brianman $109,050 Subtotal
$110,220 Total (Subtotal+990+180)
Sig Perf with HPWC, no rear facing seats.
Keep in mind that he might have not factored in the 2013 pricing changes in his napkin calculations.�
Apr 13, 2013
smorgasbord Adding the HPWC would bring today's loaded Perf Plus to $116,720. So $6500 more.�
Apr 14, 2013
walla2 Sorry, you recent posters are correct. I used pre-price increase math as the signature "tax" was more than $6,500. So, I stand corrected but, please recall also that the Sig Performance wasn't loaded. We paid extra for rear seats, pano, HPWC. Those items weren't included. Paint choices were not an option so you can't charge for those either to jack up the price comparison to the $116,720. And the $116,720 includes destination charges that we were charged separately for. I ran it with the new calculator and my exact car today plus the performance package would be: $106,500 + 7,500 = $113,500 delivered. My car was $107, 850 + delivery and inspection = $109,020. The exact difference is $4,480.
So again. I stand corrected due to price formula changes at Tesla, but I still wouldn't recommend a Signature X or Sig Gen III.�
Apr 14, 2013
brianman This is a key point. Regardless of whether you agree with their reasons or not, I would suspect most of the Sig S owners would not recommend Sig to anyone in the future. That's a horrible result for Tesla to have self-inflicted.
Sorry for continuing the somewhat off-topic. Mods feel free to make a Sig Angst thread and migrate posts accordingly.
�
Apr 14, 2013
AnOutsider So sad, but true�
Apr 14, 2013
smorgasbord I didn't include rear seats, which brings the loaded Perf Plus total to $118,200. I included a multi-touch paint since that's what the Sig has. I believe that's the most comparable to a fully loaded Sig, plus the Perf Package. So a difference of $9,200. Even dropping the Perf Plus package still results in the new car costing more than the Sig.
Yeah, until Tesla includes something unique and valuable for Signature models, the only reason to get them is impatience.�
Apr 14, 2013
rlawson4 I think the jury is out on the signature value issue. I upgraded to the Signature model late in the process. So, I don't have much right to complain. However, to those that paid early, there will be additional value to the signature models if they include free or reduced priced upgrades and new features. I think that will make a difference.�
Apr 14, 2013
Cirion I have still not received my Sig...
And the total is now up to $128784 with today's exchange rates.
It will come fully loaded with all that is available
This will be the moste expensive car I have ever bought, but at less then half the price of a stripped BMW M5 it's still a good deal...�
Apr 14, 2013
ElSupreme Untill you get invites to the GENIII launch! While us production plebes only get to watch it on the interwebs.�
Apr 14, 2013
stephenpace @rlawson4 Agreed. Getting the car early had some value (I'm doing my taxes today and it is nice that I can immediately claim the credit) and the future is unknown. In addition to free or reduced price upgrades, what if Sigs get invited first to events like the Motor Trend party? Or future events that non-Sigs don't? Bottom line, I felt I put my money where my mouth was for Sig, and I at least hold out some hope of future benefit. Even knowing what I know now, I'd still do it, although I can certainly sympathize with those that don't feel that way.�
Apr 14, 2013
joshuaeven The Signature series was about exclusivity. You paid a premium for a package you could clearly tell by doing the math was not a value proposition. First edition, limited edition. And you can't call getting the first units off the line a drawback when that was exactly what you paid for.�
Apr 14, 2013
Andrew I'd say the "Signature Red" paint color is both unique and valuable... So pretty....!�
Apr 14, 2013
Jkam This is all conjecture on my part but does anyone else think it plausible that Tesla did have every intention of equipping the Sigs with unique options, and later after coming up with the options, they decided to sell it to all Model S buyers? For instance do you think air suspension or the performance package could have originally been intended only for Sig models, but then Tesla realized that it makes much more financial sense to sell those options to all Model S buyers?
I would have to say all the Signature angst (as well as the early delivery problems to Hawaii) that built up has subsided. There have been some olive branches (one year of data service, Tesla swag and invitation to Model X announcement), but still nothing substantial has been done for Sig owners. At this point I don't have any expectations. I love the car and so bottom line I'm happy. I just hope I get free rear seat mats and eventually get my rear seats installed.�
Apr 14, 2013
linaser I'll pay $144162 for my (almost) fully loaded Sig Perf+ and delivery is still 3 months away.
The only reason, why I opted for a Sig was, to get it earlier.
And because GB promised Sigs in Europe for "late 2012" that was ok for me, when I made the reservation.
But now, it's almost a year after the first Sigs went to their customers in the U.S. and I'm still waiting. When I signed the pre MVPA in January, I was told, that delivery would be in spring. Now I'm hopping for July.
... It's just frustrating ...
P.S. You can get a (stripped) brand new M5 for about $100000 here in Switzerland, but I'd never go for that. There is just no other car out there, that really compares to the Model S in so many ways.�
Apr 14, 2013
Zythryn For me, Signature was all about supporting the company and the technology.
If you are focused on goodies, you should wait for the inclusion of adaptive cruise control, parking sensors, etc.
I chose to lead by example and put my money where my mouth is.
I have no regrets, and am proud to support such a revolutionary company.�
Apr 14, 2013
vfx No one has specifically mentioned bragging rights. Every sig owner I know tells everyone they were among the first to buy. The better Tesla does, the more brilliant they look.�
Apr 14, 2013
AnOutsider Can't see why. As one poster so callously mentioned, we got less and paid more. That's something to hang your head in shame over (unless you were just in it to throw tesla extra money as a sign of support).�
Apr 14, 2013
vfx To this day there are those that brag they had the first Iphone or pad, or, flat screen, whatever the tech, they just love being first and that trumps the cost for them.�
Apr 14, 2013
Zythryn This is the way it is with virtually all products.
If you bought a 2005 vehicle, I bet a 2013 model has more, costs less, performs better, is safer, or many/all of the above.
If anyone is looking to get more and pay less, time is their friend. If you want it now, want to support the company at a more critical time, want to be an early adopter, etc. Signatures were the way to do it.
Daily Kos: Tesla Model S Has Arrived: You Have a Duty to Buy One (If you can afford)
I'm not the best with words, perhaps the above article puts it better.�
Apr 14, 2013
digitaltim To me, Sig was all about supporting the transformation to electrify the automotive industry...this from someone with 21+ years in the energy industry.
That said, a few more perks for my fully loaded Sig would have been nice - I plan to do the perf+ options assuming they are available when I do my 12.5k service in 2 weeks.�
Apr 14, 2013
joefee I hope we will get some future perk for our sig tax.....�
Apr 14, 2013
anticitizen13.7 I think support for TMC, and electric automobiles in general, was probably the primary motivator for most Signature Series buyers. Being an early adopter has its risks.�
Apr 14, 2013
Doug_G I'm kinda conflicted on this. I don't think the Signature was good value for the money... Tesla occasionally implied there'd be more goodies but didn't actually promise and never came through with anything substantial... yet I couldn't bring myself to drop back to Production. I really like the Sig Red, but then I also love the look of white with grey wheels. I'm very happy with the car, and it was pretty awesome being the first to get a Canadian-spec S... but I wouldn't do Signature again in the future.�
Apr 14, 2013
jerry33 I doubt that very much. It doesn't seem reasonable to spend a lot of effort designing a suspension system for only a few thousand cars and then never offering it again. The main value was getting it early, but as it turned out there wasn't much of a delivery time difference between the Sigs and the first production cars. My guess is that the original plan was that Sigs would be six months before the general production (e.g. The Sigs all being shipped during June/July rather than just the first six cars and the production at the November date) which would have been real value.
I suspect that there will be very few takers for any future Signature cars from Tesla unless they can really show some significant extra value.�
Apr 14, 2013
AnOutsider This. Which Tesla should be concerned about. As it stands, I still have a sig x reservation, but if the time comes to configure and there is still a sig tax while still limiting our options and sig S's didn't see any additional value (beyond the free year of net and cargo net), then I'll happily drop down at that point to a high XXXX number. I'll pay less, get more options and have a later, better-tested car.�
Apr 14, 2013
patp I downgraded my upcoming Model X Sig to a normal production. If it's like my S (Canada) I will get my car about 30-60 days later but will save lots of $ and will be able to choose among all colors.
It's sad Tesla isn't doing more for Sig as we're the best ambassadors.�
Apr 14, 2013
brianman And there it is again. Tesla offered Signature as a premier item, yet nobody who got one (that I know of) would recommend it to anyone that asks. That's not a desirable result for any company.�
Apr 14, 2013
StephRob Add me as another Sig S buyer who would not do another Sig purchase. Value proposition completely lacking. Currently have a regular X reservation.�
Apr 14, 2013
ChadS Put me in the middle. I would do the same Sig buy again, but am not likely to buy a future Sig.
I would do the same one again because there was no Sig tax for me. I qualified for a 10k discount for having a Roadster and a Model S Sig reservation at the right time (limited time offer). My Sig cost me just about exactly what a regular production would have cost with the options I would have purchased, but because it was a Sig there were more options than i would have purchased, I got it early, and I got the color that my wife liked best. We weren't in a hurry for the car (we already had two EVs we really liked) but this worked out really well for us.
I think (though I am guessing) this scheme was a way to extract extra dollars from willing new customers in a hurry AND reward loyal buyers at the same time. If it was intentional (guessing again - I don't think it was their plan when they offered the early discount, but I suspect it is why they ended up pricing the Sig like they did), I think it worked out great; but it won't work again unless they do another discount or get more people in a hurry. Both of which are possible, though neither is guaranteed.�
Apr 14, 2013
brianman I'm confused by this. Your use of the term "free" here suggests (to me) that you only qulaified for the 10k discount if you purchased a Sig (SSL) rather than a general production (R). Or am I misunderstanding?�
Apr 14, 2013
ChadS Correct. The discount only applied if you bought a Sig. Updating my post to be more clear.
If I could have taken 10k off a regular production, yeah I would have done that.�
Apr 14, 2013
brianman Interesting. So, yah, for SSL sigs this was a good deal. This gives me some new insight into why SSL folks have been relatively quiet regarding the angst.�
Apr 14, 2013
Doug_G Unless you were a Canadian SSL, in which case they terminated the program before we were afforded the opportunity to reserve a Signature.�
Apr 14, 2013
smorgasbord First, to be clear this wasn't extended to all Roadster owners - only those that bought before a certain date (maybe Dec 31, 2010?). June, 2011 was too late, for instance.
Also, the way a fellow owner who did qualify for the discount explained it to me, he didn't need to buy a Model S Sig, just a Model S. Of course, he could have been wrong, or I could have gotten it wrong...�
Apr 14, 2013
aviators99 I wonder how Model S Sig buyers will feel if they *do* add some significant value to future models' Signatures?�
Apr 14, 2013
brianman Gunshy before they do it, so likely unrewarded when they do. But pleased that they learned, and consequently more optimistic for Tesla's long-term prospects.�
Apr 14, 2013
AMPd The sig owners that chose the sig red got a very exclusive color.�
Apr 14, 2013
Cirion The difference is the VAT, luckily I am not going to pay that this time. VAT is 25% in Norway and I think that is the same in moste EU contries. With VAT my car would cost $160980...
The price for a fully loaded Model S Signature Performance Plus is NOK 748050 without VAT and the VAT on BEV cars is 0%
The price for a stripped BMW M5 brand new is NOK 1766500 including VAT and taxes.
The VAT and taxes for a stripped BMW M5 is NOK 911601
So the taxes alone is enough for a fully loaded Model S Signature Performance Plus
Actually a 550i xDrive has enough taxes at NOK 759421 in only VAT and taxes.
No wonder Norwegians are shopping Model S�
Apr 15, 2013
JohnEC True and I love my sig red color. But when it comes down to it, I wouldn't do it again.�
Apr 15, 2013
logan
True, but anyone could get that color (or any color in the world, really) with a simple wrap for a couple grand.�
Apr 15, 2013
Vger I am still very happy with our SSL (#1 in WESTERN Canada, Doug_G! ;-) ). Even if Tesla is done with us Sigs, I am still happy with the Sig Red, the opportunity to be a pioneer, and help make Tesla's "Year of the Model S" special.
But I am not sure they are "done" with us yet. I think we might just get some more preferential treatment down the line, with upgrades or other perks.
In fact, I was just in a Tesla Service Centre last week to pick up a couple items, and the service advisor made it very clear that when a "Red Car" (his term) walks in the door, the white gloves go on and everything that can be done is done, pronto.�
Apr 15, 2013
davecolene0606 Interesting comments and discussion along the lines on straight up economic value. I would suggest that maybe all of the sig bennies have not yet been exhausted. Example would be the early Roadster folks getting the S benefits they got, I'm sure that was not expected and it happened years after their purchase.
It seems as though the value is an intrinsic one mostly with a smattering of perks. As a few have offered, it was as much a statement as anything and that was for me as we'll as the extra 4 mos wait (turned out it was shorter) was worth the $ as well.
Again the pure economics not so much, but then if was truly just about that a ford focus would be the answer for basic transport.
All said, I derive real pleasure from driving this car, never before and you couldn't have told me I would. I got one of the last sigs (1094) from the wait list and many productions were delivered in front of mine, but it still felt pretty cool to be among the first!
Dave�
Apr 15, 2013
Joel True. However, Signature reservations were also limited to four color choices. I have Signature Red, but I would rather have the Grey.�
Apr 15, 2013
mknox I was going to go for a Sig, but when us Canadians got hit with the duty (import) charges, I just couldn't justify the difference. I didn't really want the 21" wheels anyway, but would have loved that Red!
At the end of the day, the first Canadian Sigs were delivered in late December, and I got my Production at the beginning of March (and I wasn't even the first), so for a hair over two months, I'm happy with the cost savings.�
Apr 15, 2013
AnOutsider And I'd rather have had brown. Since there's the other red coming out (most wont be able to tell the difference off hand), I'd say the most unique thing was the white interior. Not sure how many went for that though.
As for early delivery, that probably did make sense to some of the later reservation oats (when the P list was already thousands deep), but for folks who would have been low on the P list anyway, it really didn't make a difference.�
Apr 15, 2013
dsm363 In the end, the Signature list was voluntary. I agree the value may be questionable but am fairly happy with it. Hope all of these new features are able to be retrofitted or Tesla continues to offer small perks for Signature customers. That leaves out the equally dedicated early production people though so they are in a no win situation. Give all Sigs an amazing gift or discount on something and someone else who placed their order 2 years before a Sig waiting list person will be upset. Someone will always be upset about something though.�
Apr 15, 2013
AnOutsider Dave, were the early production reservationists promised a unique car and perks?
They can't be upset at anyone but themselves for not taking advantage of the then-wide open list.
In the reverse, they're sitting pretty with extra cash to spend on upgrades.�
Apr 15, 2013
dsm363 I agree the promise of a 'unique car that can't be replicated in the general production' while technically accurate (white leather and Sig red paint) ended up not being the case.
Just because someone wasn't promised something doesn't mean they won't complain if the Sig people who came off the waiting list 2 years after they did start getting a bunch of perks and they didn't. Someone will always find an angle to say something is unfair. Tesla just needs to determine what is fair and draw a line somewhere.
I do think they should try to continue to do little things for the Sig customers to make the whole value proposition more worth it and to encourage Sig reservations in the future.�
Apr 15, 2013
dsm363 For me, any future upgrades that are possible should be sold to Sig customers at a discount. That would mean Tesla wouldn't make much money but Sig customers would get a nice discount. I would like that but can't expect anything like that I guess.�
Apr 15, 2013
Joel A discount after the premium that Signature customers already paid? As it stands, reducing the price of future upgrades would mean Signature reservation holders prepaid for these upgrades. It would have to be a significant discount above the $4,500 to $6,600 premium paid per car.
I'd be satisfied that my premium was prepaid service, upgrades, etc. However, I am resigned to the fact that I bought a $6,600 gym bag.�
Apr 15, 2013
Banahogg There's always the sig nose cone that nobody else got and which we still don't have a good explanation for - maybe that makes it easier to add something cool in the future?
I feel like a lot of this comes back to the same inconsistent and lacking communication that's plagued so many parts of the Model S launch. We just don't know what they have planned and what things they say to trust.�
Apr 15, 2013
AnOutsider Perhaps, but my service center has offered to replace that on a couple occasions. If there's something special about it, they apparently don't know.�
Apr 15, 2013
aznt1217 You have a limited run production vehicle. That should help with resale value in the future.�
Apr 15, 2013
Arnold Panz The Sig premium is worth it only to anyone who doesn't want to wait in line. It is nonsensical to pay the Sig premium years in advance, unless you consider it a donation to Tesla. An additional color choice is not worth several thousand extra dollars, nor is it what Tesla originally promised Sig owners.
So, I wouldn't suggest to anyone with money to burn not to get a Model X Sig or Gen III Sig, but would suggest that they wait until the last minute because of the ramp up and everything; there is absolutely no point in plunking down the $40k earlier than necessary. If you want to secure a place in line, reserve early for a regular production model and you'll be getting your car within weeks of the Sigs and saving a few grand.
There is no question in my mind that amid all the chaos of the ramp up of production and everything Telsa had to do that they ended up giving less to Sigs than originally intended. A totally forgivable sin under the circumstances, and I love my car, but that's the incontrovertible truth.�
Apr 15, 2013
dsm363 Me too. I got my car really early so have had the chance to enjoy it for awhile. Of course that probably wasn't worth that much but I signed up and finalized knowing what I was getting.�
Apr 15, 2013
dsm363 That's my guess as well. Any promise of something unique 2 years before production was just their best intent. They clearly should have indicated when things changed or reduced the premium.
Going forward, I would think their communication will be much better with the Sig list and you'll have a better idea of what you are getting.�
Apr 15, 2013
Tesla 940 That does not appear to hold true with the Roadster. I seriously considered putting down $75k to be on the list of the first 100 owners and then wait 3+ years. For various reasons I choose not to.
A used Roadster 1.5 does sell for nearly what a 2.5 goes for.
All the Signature series seems to get people is the car earlier so you can "show off" to your friends. Kind of reminds me of people that stand outside overnight at Best Buy to get the latest cell phone a week earlier that their friends. In return for all that "show off" potential is the joy of dealing with a lot of production bugs that get worked out in later production, and various upgrades that make the early cars less valuable.�
Apr 15, 2013
Doug_G That isn't a "Sig" nose cone. It's just an "early" nose cone. The Canadian Sigs do not have it. I think they changed the nose cone to reduce production costs and and improve cosmetics.�
Apr 15, 2013
William13 I bought the Sig with my eyes both open. I will never spend as much for a car again, but I think the Sig Red and Cream interior were worth the extra. Plus I am supporting Tesla and true electric cars. I put my money where my mouth is about energy and our future.�
Apr 15, 2013
Right_Said_Fred For Europe at least Tesla can still make a mence and provide some extra free options or services to Signature-reservation holders (who, it's unbelievable,, are still limited in their choice to 4 colours, even though all colours are being painted already). At the moment all we are getting for providing Tesla with a lot of extra working capital (which we don't mind, since we want Tesla to succeed) and for paying a few thousand � extra is negligable. The main pro was first delivery and even that seems to have gone out the door, now that it looks like Norwegian P's will be delivered before Sigs in other European countries...�
Apr 15, 2013
walla2 To be clear, I am still very happy with my Tesla. The car is amazing with only a few bugs that I am confident service will fix. I "sell" the Model S, the X, Elon Musk's brilliance, and his companies to many people, just not the Signature. I don't mention that my car is a Sig, that's not important to me. When a very interested buyer asks me about a Sig X, I tell them to go regular production. My reason for the Signature initially was to get the car early, not for any other reason. The premium for early was worth it because when I upgraded from a fairly low P in the 1400's I was told July instead of early 2013. This turned out to be more than 5 months off for my Sig, and it would have been possible to get P1407 in December (literally the same month). When I finalized in July, I was told October. When my Sig didn't deliver until December after multiple missed windows and radio silence from Tesla, it was delivered after a number of regular production cars (Performance and non-performance). The only reason I think I made December was because I threatened to cancel. To get the car delivered when I did, I had to take a day off, rent a one-way car, ride a bus, and then wait around in a small town 179 miles from my home in the cold until it showed up by trailer. Otherwise, it would have been weeks to months later according to my DS.
I have repeatedly asked Tesla over the phone and in emails for a simple apology, an explanation, and/or both. I still wouldn't recommend a Sig for the reasons posted here, but it would provide me some closure on this. For some reason, they aren't interested simply saying "sorry about the missed windows and the later than intended delivery."
Why wouldn't I recommend Signature? You get nothing extra and you don't even necessarily get an early car. Since you can now get a Performance car in 1-2 months off the line, there is no reason to not be minimally patient and get a more-refined car at a lower price.�
Apr 15, 2013
brianman Uh oh, you woke up michiganmodels. Long time no see!
- - - Updated - - -
Did they quote you a price? It might be worth it if it's low enough... to preserve my Sig cone before I mess it up.�
Apr 16, 2013
Right_Said_Fred Amazing that this can happen on George B's watch. I thought that by now everyone at Tesla would be aware that the customer has to be their first, second and third concern.�
Apr 16, 2013
AnOutsider No, I didn't go for it. The way it was stated though, it SOUNDED like it may have been no-cost.�
Apr 16, 2013
linaser
In Switzerland out VAT is only 8%, but wages and rent is more expensive. Maybe thats why Tesla is charging more in Switzerland.
But the bottomline for me is, that the Sig premium is really unfair to the Europeans, who decided to go for a Sig, to get their cars earlier.
And now it even looks like there might be GP deliverys in Norway, before the Sigs in the rest of Europe are going to be delivered.�
Apr 16, 2013
VolkerP In Switzerland, 4 years of service are included.�
Apr 16, 2013
ToddRLockwood Right on, Zythryn. In addition, you probably got a car that was personally inspected by Elon Musk, possibly in a color only found on other signatures. To call the signature a lousy value misses the point. If you're looking for a good deal, you probably don't belong in a signature.�
Apr 16, 2013
AnOutsider Sorry, not sure if you meant it that way, but to me that comes across as both dismissive and condescending. I'm not sure if anyone here was looking for a "good deal" when they upgraded to the sig. If you read all the posts here, the overarching theme is that Tesla was pushing it as a uniquely optioned car with other perks.
The Model X reveal was sigs only IIRC -- that's a perk, not a deal. We got a year free of internet -- that's a perk. However, I think things hit a wall when it was discovered that the cars would cost MORE than a similarly equipped Production car AND have less options available. So, it became a car that was only uniquely optioned if you chose a certain paint or seat color AND you paid extra for it. You were also barred from options that general production cars had available.
They pushed it as an exclusive and prestige option and it ended up being, in many ways, less than a general production car. I'm not sure about you, but I would expect to be somehow rewarded for not only loaning the company 8x more money than a standard reservation but also paying more than them, not punished. Your comment seemed to insinuate that only affluent people with money to toss around should be in a signature car. Does this include customers who want to pay more for less?�
Apr 16, 2013
Arnold Panz And a serious lack of communication, routinely missed delivery windows, little to no information about production and a host of other issues that current customers don't have to deal with. Sigs were the guinea pigs for a lot that Tesla did, and they'd be (and were) the first to admit that communication was not what it should have been, yet we paid more for the privilege of beings those guinea pigs, with fewer color options on fully loaded cars.
The original question was whether someone should get a Sig X or Gen III. The answer is an emphatic "no" based on the S Sig experience, unless you wait until the last minute and want to jump the line. That was the one tangible, legitimate worthwhile benefit of being a Sig. Or, you can make your donation to Tesla, but I would suggest that buying the stock accomplishes the same thing and gives you the benefit of the upside of the company doing well.�
Apr 17, 2013
brianman AO covered most of it but, I think you're also missing another point he didn't mention.
You make it sound like people are asking for a discount for the Sig. On the contrary, the primary complaint is about paying a premium to have fewer options than GP. If the Sig "premium" was merely the time-value of the "early" $35k, there would be no issue.�
Apr 17, 2013
Eberhard I gave a interest-free loan at full risk to Elon for more then 2 years? Waiting more than one year longer than the american customers, bought and tested the Roadster 2 1/2 years with now 135.000km on the odometer and i got ask to pay a premium for a packet that the car will perform better in a colder climate her in germany or better spoken: we are sorry we forgot again that there is a wintertime outside california.
Any european car get tested in the colds before being released to the market and cold weather option is a extra set of winter tires and an independent additional heater? Not only better insulation and correctly placed outlet grills. And parking sensors for 500 bucks where you can find them for less than $50 on ebay?
Elon i feel liked do get roped out.
Last but not least an performance plus packet to correct a not so perfect setup needed for such a performance car? where is the value for money concept?
i am very disappointed and i am thinking about a downgrade from Sig Perform to standard 85kW GP (and getting more choice of colors)�
Apr 17, 2013
ToddRLockwood There are factors at play here that are perhaps not obvious in hindsight...
Model S Signature owners were motivated by several things: unique color and interior options, early delivery, special badging, exclusivity, the possibility of higher resale value, and the desire to help insure the success of the company. That certain features were not included on the signatures is likely due to the fact that those features were not in production yet. The Model S is a work in progress. There are features on current production S's not found on cars made four months ago.
When I ordered my car last August, I didn't feel that the Model S Signature was worth the difference in price. Had the Sig Red paint been available as a $2,000 option, I might have gone for it. But otherwise, I couldn't justify the price difference, and I was willing to wait longer for my car. But I understand why, to some, the Model S Signature would be the obvious choice. Some people simply want to buy "the best," especially when spending this kind of money.
Complications and misunderstandings arise when the product keeps getting improved, and early adopters don't get the full benefit of those upgrades. That's why traditional car manufacturers tend to lock down the feature list for a given model year and withhold any additions until the next annual cycle. Personally, I love the fact that Tesla is constantly improving its cars, responding to problems and owner requests in real time. To the degree that it's feasible, Tesla is upgrading earlier cars at the company's expense or providing owner upgrade paths.
Tesla may need to review its signature approach with the Model X. Given Tesla's learning experiences of 2012, I imagine the Model X will be a more mature product when it's released.�
Apr 17, 2013
vfx Yes it will. But the improvements will still come out rapidly. Tesla is (for now) a nimble company. Coming out with new features every month or so I believe will be a Tesla trademark in the automotive world.�
Apr 17, 2013
brianman Interesting turnabout. Your original post had a very different tone and content. This post is basically agreeing with the general tenor of this thread. I'm somewhat confused by the difference. Nonetheless, not worth dwelling on I suppose.�
Apr 17, 2013
smorgasbord That's not a valid comparison. BMW, for instance, charges $380 for parking sensors (rear only) on the 1-series. So, Tesla's not out of line here.�
Apr 17, 2013
Arnold Panz In fairness, Todd only ordered his car last August. At that point, the full spectrum of the Sig value proposition (or lack thereof) was readily apparent. The point that AO, Michiganmodels, I and others have made is that we ordered our Sigs years earlier with much less actual information, but promises that essentially weren't delivered on in the way we expected (something besides unique colors), and we were charged more for the privilege.
To me, this was always Tesla's fundamental mistake with Sigs -- Tesla was already getting (hopefully) the profits off of us buying fully loaded Sigs. Charging a hefty premium on top of that with no discernible benefits (other than earlier delivery, which wasn't that big a benefit for early Sig reservations), coupled with the usual hiccups of a ramp-up like Tesla had as Sigs started rolling off the line (including poor communications), made for unnecessarily frustrated Sig owners, who otherwise could and should have been Tesla's biggest advocates and fans.
I still push everyone I talk to to buy a Model S (or any EV) and sing Tesla's praises. I couldn't love my car any more. I've completely forgiven Tesla, but I'll never forget, which is why I would never recommend that someone else buy a Sig unless line-jumping is worthwhile for them.�
Apr 17, 2013
Joel +1 Well said�
Apr 17, 2013
Doug_G Totally agree.�
Apr 17, 2013
neroden OK, I'm going to share what Angie Schmitt (sp?) told me when I originally called and was saying "Do I want to get a Signature or a Standard?"
She said, paraphrasing, "Most people getting Signatures are getting them to get the car early. If you don't care about the unique exterior or interior color, you should decide based on how much you care about getting the car early." I ended up reserving a Signature, but then cancelling and later reserving a Standard.
In short, Signatures are not good value for money, *unless you value getting your car early very highly*, and Angie was honest enough to admit it.
However, since there's still an "option value" in Signature reservations (just in case they turn out to be worth it), people with lots of cash will probably make the reservations and then drop down to Standards when the time comes to commit. That is a particularly bad situation for Tesla economically.�
Apr 17, 2013
ToddRLockwood Brian, I now understand why my original post offended a few people. I had always assumed that everyone had access to the full range of sig and non-sig options from the beginning. I literally saw the Tesla Motors web site for the first time last August, so I had the benefit of more choices than those who ordered two or three years ago. That said, I can still understand why some people would be willing to pay more for the most exclusive model. Unfortunately, it sounds as though Tesla didn't completely live up its signature promises. I hope they do a better job with the Model X Signature.�
Apr 17, 2013
dsm363 Moving forward, Sig reservations should be a better known commodity. They won't be in the start up phase anymore so hopefully it is handled better.�
Apr 17, 2013
bonnie At this point, I'm still holding onto my Model X signature reservation. But I'm watching.�
Apr 17, 2013
ipdamages i saw franz at dwell on design at the LA convention center in the summer of 2010 and asked him about what model s sigs would get that was unique. at that time, the signature red color has been announced, but that was about it. franz told me that they were talking about it, but i should definitely go sig as there were going to be some cool benefits. to date that hasn't turned out to be true, but i attribute that to the company having difficulties last year in the push to get the model S to market and become profitable. recall that just six months ago many were forecasting that tesla was not going to get over the hump and survive as a company. so i wasn't really surprised to see them not giving more to the tesla faithful, but rather trying to survive so they would be there in the future to support the cars, introduce more models, and thrive. that would be the biggest reward to the early adopters and enthusiasts.
i also recall some postings to the effect that elon has said that the model sig benefits story is not yet finished. but it is getting a bit late, and with the company now turning a profit, the time to step up and do sig owners right is nigh.�
Apr 17, 2013
ElSupreme I honestly think that Tesla fully planned and expected for Signature cars to have extras, and be better than general production cars. But I think they slowly kept putting the Sig bonuses, into the regular cars because they didn't want to make a 'lesser' car. I truly and honestly believe Elon personally wants to make every Model S the best thing going, and doesn't want to cheap out on anything (except floor mats, those got seriously cheaped out on) on any car.
I don't think Tesla had any idea what to do for Sigs after they creeped the standard car up to the same level. So they threw in 12months data, and a duffle bag. Because it was easy. I still think there might be some grand gesture down the line, but it is probably low priority, and tangent on Tesla being profitable.
And I do think Sigs will get invites to further Model X and Gen III events, that us lowly production peeps won't be. What value that is to you is very individual, but I imagine it would have value to many Sig owners.�
Apr 17, 2013
bonnie They do know how to throw a party.�
Apr 17, 2013
AnOutsider Even if it turns out as poor as the Model S sigs seem to be turning out so far... Can you REALLY let go of #2? I mean... #2!!!!
As for me, I'd thought to put in a production reservation as well, but honestly, as I said up-thread, if the sig benefit isn't there, I'm fine going to the end of the list and getting a more refined vehicle.�
Apr 17, 2013
dsm363 Tesla seems pretty responsive to most things. I'm hoping they handle the Sig list a little better with the X and provide a little more tangible benefits.�
Apr 17, 2013
ElSupreme I bet they could sellout the X Sig list today with the following statement "Traditional swing rear doors will be optional IF AND ONLY IF you reserve a signature Model X"
:biggrin:�
Apr 17, 2013
walla2 They did not fulfill any of the implied promises of a better car for any of us and for me and many others didn't deliver the car early or even on time. My original reservation would have delivered only a few days after my Sig or perhaps even before. Sig does not mean early. It means higher costs for a same or lesser car that might arrive early. This is why I can't advise a Signature at the present time. Also, I don't expect anything this late and the past perks like last minute party invites do little for people that work and can't fly to New York or San Fran on a whim.
The good news is that the last time we complained enough, Tesla listened and made improvements. I got a lot of flack for complaining about poor communication before on this forum including many PM's and posts asking me to leave. I do hope Tesla hears us, and they see value in their future Sig customers even if they toss the Model S Sigs to the curb.�
Apr 18, 2013
Joel What improvements were made for Signature owners? I am unaware of an improvements for signatures. Please elaborate.�
Apr 18, 2013
brianman I think he was referring to the following (the underlined) not the preceding.
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My recollection is that S#2 didn't get S00002, and also got later delivery than 3-50 (or something like that). That might not be such a great number to get.
Generally, though, I agree. It's hard to let go of such a low VIN opportunity.
- - - Updated - - -
No worries. Arnold's post made a similar commentary about your earlier post. In that light, it makes a bit more sense but (for future reference) could have been toned differently so as not to have riled some of us up.
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I'm not optimistic that the follow-thru here will be compelling. But as both a Sig owner and a party interested in Tesla's future (as owner and appreciator of Tesla's general industry role), I hope they find a way to make the S Sig ownership nod, smile, and change our tunes such that we can wholeheartedly recommend Signature for those considering the X and Gen III.
As it stands today, this is like the missing rear floor mats and other seemingly easily avoidable missteps. In contrast, the Alcantara issue seems like a logistical and communications issue rather than a conscious organizational decision. As such, I don't find it as troubling -- a "young company" mistake vs. a "bad vision, philosophy" mistake.�
Apr 18, 2013
SuperCoug I find this OP very strange. If you wanted a lower priced Model S you certainly didn't have to order a Signature. You knew exactly what price Tesla was asking and you knew exactly what the general production cars cost. There was no mystery there. In fact, the Sig has always been a early adopter status symbol (complete with an enormous deposit). I could have ordered a Signature but I went with general production model because I couldn't justify the premium associated with a Sig but I certainly understood why those with the means gladly jumped on board to get one of the very first 1000 of these historical cars. We all knew Telsa would ramp production quickly and that those 1,000 Sigs would get produced pretty quickly. Being upset that other guys like me got our cars within a few months of yours for a lot less money with a much smaller deposit is silly.
Maybe I'm missing something. Being a Sig owner was never about getting the best deal but rather getting the best possible car before everybody else.�
Apr 19, 2013
brianman I find it somewhat interesting that most of the "I don't get the issue" are people that don't have sigs. Perhaps there's something about not having skin in the game.�
Apr 19, 2013
Johan +1
... I saw this coming and dropped my EU Sig. reservation in 2012.�
Apr 19, 2013
JohnQ I think it tends to be about early vs. late reservation. I reserved end of 2009 and there was little pricing and option information and no guidance about what was or wasn't included in the signature pricing. Although tempted by the signature, I opted not to because of the amount of money I would tie up and the risk associated with that.
I presumed, based on indications from Tesla and Elon, that the signatures would have a number of significant enhancements as a reward for committing $40k well in advance of delivery and thus can completely understand the perspectives of signature (particularly early signature) reservation holders. Those who reserved later had much more information when making a decision.�
Apr 19, 2013
AnOutsider I think that you are indeed missing something. Did you just read the OP or did you also take in the many posts in this thread by actual sig owners who fully express what it is about the situation that concerns them?�
Apr 19, 2013
Arnold Panz One thing I'd also note that hasn't been mentioned too much is the risk that Sigs took in plunking down $40k, sometimes years in advance, with no guarantee that they'd get any car, let alone a great car. We all had faith, but to that point in history, Tesla had only done retrofitted, hand-crafted Roadsters to that point, and there was no way to know that they'd be able to pull off a ground up, mass-produced Model S. It was an incredible leap of faith (as was the $5000 reservation). This was before Tesla was a public company and when credit was tight, so it was an enormous benefit to Tesla to have access to all of this cash years before the cars were made. This is another reason that I expected Tesla to do more than just provide earlier delivery and a unique color to Sigs. My wife was completely convinced that I'd chucked $40k down the toilet until the car actually showed up in our driveway.
For anyone considering a Model X or Gen III Sig, one positive sign is that it's much more of a remote risk that the car won't be made than I think we faced with the S. In this way, SuperCoug is right that the only expected benefit (based on experience with the S) is that you get to jump the line. What SuperCoug is ignoring are the promises made by Tesla for much more than just line-jumping. If Tesla had said that a Sig would get you first in line, a unique color and some badging, there would be no cause for complaint, but I'm fairly confident that they wouldn't have gotten many Sig reservations in 2009-11. What this can appear to be to a cynic is Tesla pulling a bait and switch to get access to the Sig money and then reneging on their promises. What I think happened was Tesla intended to do more for Sigs but took its eye off the ball and we ended up where we did.�
Apr 19, 2013
vfx Perhaps sigs will get 10K discount for sig X?�
Apr 19, 2013
stevezzzz ^this, Arnold...
In October 2009, when I plunked down full price for a Roadster that Tesla hadn't built yet, my thought was to minimize my financial exposure in case the company folded before delivering my car, so I ordered a low-option, standard R. When Tesla actually delivered the Roadster I put down a $5K deposit on a production S, happily drove my R, and watched to see how the tea leaves settled. In January of 2012 I decided to risk upgrading to a Sig reservation, balancing my concern about the viability of the company with my desire to get the S earlier, to take advantage of the R-owner discount, to continue to suport a company I believe in...and because Sig Red was the only color I really liked.
When I first made a deposit on the S, all we knew was the general configuration of the vehicle and the $50K target price. In the end, I gave Tesla a $40K deposit and my R in trade, and they gave me a Sig Red S and a few $K. Do I feel taken advantage of? No, I do not. I put on my big boy pants, plunked down my money and got the car I wanted. Would I like it if Tesla somehow made a grand gesture that made all Sigs happy about paying the Sig premium? Absolutely: it'd be a really classy move. Will I hang onto my Sig X reservation or drop back to a production? Weebeesee...�
Apr 19, 2013
Jkam All very true. Unless you put $40k down early before the company went public and before Toyota sold NUMMI to Tesla for a song (otherwise it looked like the plant would be in Downey), I'm not sure some people understand the risk that early Sig reservation holders took. Not only that, the sales pitch to induce people to put a Signature reservation was much different than what it the final 'benefits' became. So there was kind of the bait and switch feel.
Around May of 2012 when the early Sig reservations had to start locking in, while you could downgrade to a production model, Tesla wasn't really accommodating with issuing a production number for those that wanted to downgrade. When I asked where I would be in line if I downgraded, they couldn't give me a straight answer, not even an estimate. In hindsight, I still don't understand why an estimated production number could not be issued especially considering that it did take 5 months or so before the cars actually started getting delivered. And in hindsight I guess it didn't really matter what production # was issued since there was very little difference in delivery time between Sigs and Ps and Tesla didn't really build and deliver sequentially. But that is all hindsight. In hindsight I know I would have done things differently. If enough early Sig holders didn't put down the $40k deposit, would things have turned out differently?
Reading this thread is not good for my health. Because I enjoy the car so much my angst from going through the Sig process mostly disappeared, but now it is starting to bubble again with all this rehashing.�
Apr 19, 2013
brianman While it would be a nice gesture, I was never interested in the Sig offering for S as a way to get a coupon for an X that I won't be buying. (I don't need another vehicle this soon.)
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I know the feeling. For the most part, I've pretty much resigned myself to the concept of "Sig donation".
There are three things that pull me out of that zen place.
1. Discussion of the angst (here and in person) with other Sig owners. ("It's not just me...")
2. Explaining it to people that don't seem to get it. (Rehashing to explain it brings it back to the forefront of memory and thinking.)
3. Realizing what Tesla's done to its own Signature branding for future vehicles.�
Apr 19, 2013
Jkam As it is Tesla couldn't even really sell out of the 200 Canadian S Sigs if I remember correctly and some of those were transferred to North America (i.e. back to the US). Considering there was something close to 50% attrition rate (some Sig reservation numbers were in the 1,500 range if I remember correctly) of Sig S reservations and you could secure a Sig S reservation all the way up to Sept/Oct 2012 when the cars were beginning to come out (again if my memory is correct), it wouldn't surprise me if Sig X sales fall short of 1,000 if Tesla does nothing special. At that point, how embarrassing would that be for Tesla? And how much ammunition would it give the naysayers in the stock market? I don't think Tesla is dumb by any means, but they do have a problem with the future Signature programs.
It would be nice if Tesla did something nice for the Sig S owners to show that there is some value in a Signature, but Tesla must do something extra if it wants the Sig X program to sell out.�
Apr 19, 2013
Arnold Panz It's a great point. My hope would be that they don't charge a Sig premium. That way, anyone who can afford a $40k deposit and wants a fully loaded car anyway can just get a Sig X. That's what I was expecting with the S, given the hiccups at the beginning of the ramp up with communication and whatnot, it would have bought a lot more leeway and forgiveness early on if they'd done that. They are already getting the profits on selling fully loaded cars.
Hopefully it was a humbling experience for Tesla so that they don't try to squeeze a few thousand extra dollars out of the Sigs. I've estimated that they got roughly an extra $7 million is revenue from the Sig premium. That's not chump change, but I'm not sure it's worth the bad PR and negative experiences it created for Sig owners, and the possibility of not selling out future Sig lines.�
Apr 19, 2013
walla2 I would suggest reading. I reserved in 2010. I was solicited by Tesla to upgrade and told I would get the car in July. I made my decision based on the timetable and "facts" that turned out to be extremely poor and unrealistic estimates (not saying they lied). I was ok paying the premium for an early car. Much less okay when they didn't follow through.
Former analogy used. You are offered a limited edition iphone for 500 more. You are promised a limited phone with skip the line customer care. The no line wait was worth it so you go for it. The release day comes. You are in the limited line and watch people in the regular line walk in and walk out with a new iphone. The genius looks at you and then looks at the floor. You continue to wait. Finally, after 5000 regular customers pass you, you get your limited edition phone that is identical only it has a sticker on it. You didn't want the gd sticker.�
Apr 20, 2013
dsm363 The customers who didn't want the sticker on their iPhone should have just stood in the regular iPhone line. The Signature premium may not have been worth it but it was voluntary in the end. You may have been pushed back by going to the production line but if you determined it simply wasn't worth it to finalize on a Signature model, it still was an option to go back to the production line and save the money. You determined that you'd rather have the Signature model, pay the extra money, and not risk the delay of being put at the end of the line possibly. The number of Signature customers who were passed over by 5,000 production deliveries was very small. How many out of the ~1,000 or so US Sigs were delivered after the first 5,000 production cars? Yes, things were promised by a new company delivering a new product and they fell short on some of their estimates and some of the things they promised. They still delivered the Signature Model S you ordered in the color and with the options you picked and at the price you agreed to, right? I think the fact a few people (some who reserved before you but stayed in the production line) got their car before you is a little annoying but just something that happened with their rampup. I don't think it was anything personal. Some were also delayed some if I remember with shipping problems to Hawaii so also not the typical California delivery so that meant more production deliveries could happen.
It's been well established that things were delayed at launch and some Signature customers ended up getting their car and production deliveries started. I reserved in May 2009 and got mine in the end of September so early in the process but not in July as was promised. I'm sure Tesla had every intention of delivering in July but missed their estimate. Yes, the delay was frustrating and the rollout could have been smoother but the Signature car that was delivered was the car that was finalized on when the paperwork was signed.�
Apr 20, 2013
vfx For those who are unhappy with the signature decision what could ever please them? The answers will have a huge range and there will always be someone unhappy because an item of great worth to one owner will have none for another.
Expect nothing more and be surprised if something comes your way.�
Apr 20, 2013
Zextraterrestrial If I could afford it I would probably pay for a sig now. When I put my deposit in 2010 I had no Idea if I'd manage to be able to work a regular S into my $'s. Knowing how much I love the car and Teslas factory I would happily pay a little extra even now (which I guess I did in the form of the P)
but putting 40k on the line extra early vs later and expectations are all different.
I didn't expect the Christmas present and was pretty excited to get that. Just the carbon fiber printed box alone was kind cool�
Apr 20, 2013
pilotSteve I would greatly prefer to receive my choice of:
(a) 4+4 years (8 total) pre-paid warranty/maintenance gratis
(b) $10k discount on my next Tesla
(c) Performance Plus upgrade gratis
Something like this would end the 'sig angst' which I agree is real and recurring among those of us who paid the 'sig tax' yet did not get cars more than 2-6 weeks earlier than production [best case!] and who haven't received much of any acknowledgment from Tesla other than [some got] the logo bag with a 'thanks' card [not signed or personalized, just printed].
Come on Tesla you can do better; its not going to take that much to make us feel appreciated and valued. IMO.�
Apr 20, 2013
dsm363 With the delay in start of production, the only way to completely satisfy everyone would have been to produce all the Signature models (Canada as well) and stockpile the production cars in the factory. Then and only then could they start the process of delivering cars. If even one car had significant problems and had to go through production again (which we know happened at least once) then the delay would have been greater. How much of a delay would have made every single person happy? Should they have had a cooling off period until Jan. 1st so all Signature customers had enough time to drive around before any production customers got their car? I realize it isn't ideal to have someone on the non-Signature list get their car before someone on the Signature list but not sure how Tesla could have done this part differently. I agree the value of the Signature could use a little work in what they offer but not sure the delivery aspect could have been much different given the delay in production, some cars having issues, people living in different areas of the country (factory pickup vs. delivery to Maine for example)....etc
I do like the discount on the next Tesla idea or maybe discounted service. Hopefully they can arrange something like that but wouldn't expect it at this point.�
Apr 20, 2013
Jkam I know Tesla took it off the table before and Tesla probably doesn't want to add more due bill items, but I wouldn't mind if they revisited the idea of putting a personal badge somewhere in the interior similar to what the first Roadster owners had in their cars. Maybe even have an electronic personal badge on the 17" screen and/or on the dashboard display. The badge could be the owner's name and reservation #. This isn't necessarily a big expense for Tesla.
Might cause production owners to be upset, but maybe Sigs get top priority at the service centers or ranger visits. This theoretically doesn't cost Tesla any money.
Instead of just one year free data service, Sigs could get 4 years free data along with 4 years of service free. I doubt this is forthcoming because it is a substantial amount of money coming out of Tesla's coffers.
Just some ideas off the top of my head that might be nice olive branches for Sig owners.
Just curious, does anyone have a clue how many SS reservations got the $10k discount? It seems to me there are several classes of Sig owners - friends & family (akin to Founders), SS, SS with $10k discount, early Sig reservations, late Sig reservations and last minute Sig reservations. Tesla can't really have separate perks for all the different subclasses of Sig owners. It has to be one uniform solution. So part of Tesla's reluctance to do something for all Sig owners may be because some Sig owners already got a significant discount. If Tesla throws in free service some Sig owners will be getting a $15k benefit ($10k discount + $5k free service). That might be too much for the bean counters to stomach.�
Apr 20, 2013
Arnold Panz Totally agree. Tesla's made its money from the Sigs and the time has long passed for them to do anything significant for Sigs. Brianman long ago suggested treating it like a donation to Tesla, which I now do, and I couldn't love my car any more. The proof will be in the pudding if/when they can't sell enough Model X Sigs, but that won't change what happened with us.�
Apr 20, 2013
adiggs When I reserved the Sig X, Tesla told me that I will have the option to step down to a production reservation later if I choose (rather than cancel and create a new reservation). In that case, I would be in the production queue as I had placed the production reservation the same day as I had placed the Signature reservation. Actually, I somewhat suspect that each Signature reservation is matched with a production reservation # at the same time (I know that I received both a production sequence # and a signature sequence #).�
Apr 20, 2013
AnOutsider That's not typically why happened with the s. they tried to get you close to your original reservation, but couldn't always do it�
Apr 20, 2013
vfx I think people are making a big mistake in this thread when they think X reservations will be weak (for whatever reason). There will be millions more of the public who will be excited about Tesla in 2014 than back in 2011/12/13. Yesterday does not equal tomorrow.�
Apr 21, 2013
brianman There have been a number of suggestions offered, and many of them are great and some of them would be relatively inexpensive for Tesla.
I'd like to expand on the "Roadster 100 medallion"-like idea...
Metal (aluminum probably) medallion in the frunk that has the following...
- Owner name
- Reservation number (S552)
- VIN sequence number (00729)
- Reservation date
- Tesla contributor list
where the "Tesla contributor list" contains all the people that worked on my car (or a reasonable approximation thereof based on vehicle manufacturing timeline information and workers on various shifts, etc.). This includes the usual suspects (Elon, Franz, etc.) but also includes the production line workers like some of the fine folks that Tesla owners have met on the road.
I suspect this would have very little monetary cost but has some significant emotional value IMO.�
Apr 21, 2013
Arnold Panz Demand for the X will be extremely strong, I have no doubt. But I also doubt that there will be a lot of Sig reservations early in the process. As production gets started they may sell out the Sigs because there will be people who don't want to wait in line, at which point the Sig premium becomes worthwhile. For the S, this would not have been good for Tesla because they wanted access to the $40k deposits to help keep them liquid. I don't think that's much of an issue for Tesla now, so its just a question of squeezing extra margins out of the Sigs for additional revenue.
My concern would be that it could send a negative message to the marketplace if Tesla is close to production and still has plenty of available Sig reservations, even if there are a ton of production reservations at that point.�
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