Aug 24, 2015
AWDtsla
Uhh, yeah. You know what 480kW at 0 RPM looks like? Infinite torque. When you understand what power and torque means, you understand the taper.�
Aug 24, 2015
Pete90D For some reason I was thinking that the heat of driving would hurt performance more, not the battery part, but maybe motors... I don't know. I should record 0-60 when it is hotter out.
I just compared the video I did the other day, to the one I did last night. Right now I don't have a good way to do it frame by frame, but trimming them down to where the bar moves and the first frame I see "60", the video from the other night at 236 rated range is 0.1s faster than last night at 267 rated. The car was warmer the other night because I had been driving around, but when I did the test last night it had sat for about 1.5hrs.
So I'll try to do it during the day, after driving for a bit, with 100% SOC.
The other night was also a worse place to test because the road wasn't entirely straight or flat, which is why I consider it flawed.�
Aug 24, 2015
Laserbrain I have used a different method: I counted the frames of the video by going frame by frame in VLC video player.
The length of each frame is 33,20ms (VLC shows 30,125 Hz video codec) - so basicly three frames are a tenth of a second. I assumed that rollout would get the car to 5 mph before the time measuring starts (even though I am not sure if this is correct, because it makes an awful lot of a difference).
This is what I ended up with:
0-60 mph: 3.29s (99 frames, error margin +/- 0.03s)
5-60 mph: 2.82s (85 frames, error margin +/- 0.03s, with rollout)
0-100 kph: 3.50s (105 frames, error margin +/- 0.03s)
8-100 kph: 3.02s (91 frames, error margin +/- 0.03s, with rollout)�
Aug 24, 2015
TEG Also, don't forget power/weight and acceleration. Best times are likely to be had with a very lightweight lone driver. These joy rides with heavy passengers are likely to slow the car down somewhat.
( At some point real drivers are going to feel disadvantaged when they drag-race against an empty car running on autopilot. :redface: )�
Aug 24, 2015
LargeHamCollider I suspect this is the case, tapers look identical, huge thanks for all the data Pete!
�
Aug 24, 2015
Pete90D I'm about 215. Maybe Tesla does the test drives with 100lb drivers.
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You're very welcome. I'm glad it has been helpful.�
Aug 24, 2015
TEG That makes two of us...�
Aug 24, 2015
okashira well.... You could theoretically dump 480kW into the motor at 0 rpm, and it will produce a-lot of torque, but not infinite. The losses will be in I^2*R heating losses of the coils.
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While heat is not good for the motor and inverter due to higher I^2*R losses (because R goes up a little), the battery is by far the limiting factor.
My testing showed a 50% or more drop in cell impedance at higher temperature. At 20 amps per cell, the batteries are by far the biggest loss of power/energy due to their impedance.
Furthermore, a hotter motor won't have such a significant increase in impedance.
We're talking ~45�C - 50�C which would be the max Tesla would heat the cells too. On the other hand, 50�C would barely be operating temperature for the motor windings. Same with the inverter. The inverter igbts are probably spec'd to 150�C, while 150�C would destroy the cells immediately.�
Aug 24, 2015
Pete90D What is your recommendation for getting the car to the right temp and having a full charge? Drive hard for a while in warm weather, SC, drive hard for a bit, but try to keep >95% SOC?�
Aug 24, 2015
AWDtsla Clearly the comment of facetious since infinite torque is impossible, there will always be other limitations. The point was expecting full power earlier is just a misunderstanding of the difference between power and force. The ramp cannot be avoided.�
Aug 24, 2015
TEG For a laugh, ask SIRI on iPhone "what is 0 divided by 0"...�
Aug 24, 2015
apacheguy This is probably right. For any given SOC, the 90 seems to be charging quite a bit slower than the 85.�
Aug 25, 2015
CleanPower What the data shows is that the 90D is charging at between 3 and 11 kW lower power for the first 30 to 40 minutes on the Supercharger.
(Other than the 5 minute glitch where KMan's charger lowered its power output.)
This is a concern because the optimum Supercharging sessions for long road trips are about 30 to 40 minutes or less.
So it looks like the 90D is going to take longer to charge on road trips than the 85D - unless the Superchargers haven't been programmed for the 90D yet...
The 90D charges at lower power than the 85D for the first 60 minutes on the Supercharger, but at a slightly higher power setting (about 2 to 5 kW higher) than the 85D after that.
�
Aug 25, 2015
Panoz @Cleanpower: great graph, but can it be modified to show time? How much longer does a 90kw battery take to charge than an 85kw? Does a typical 30 minute charge go to 50 minutes?�
Aug 25, 2015
ArtInCT Pete:
I do have yet another question for you... this question is regarding the MAX BATTERY POWER setting...
Let us say you have the MAP high and the ENERGY GRAPH low on the 17" display... as a "normal" display setup.
How many 17" display touches or interactions does it take you to get to the screen with the MAX BATTERY POWER and then invoke that function?
Also, can that function be promoted to either of the two steering wheel thumbwheels??
Again, thanks for being SO NICE with your quick replies and help. I feel you have really been very supportive to TMC'ers who are P90D focused.
Art�
Aug 25, 2015
Dennis87 Can you post a image of the P90D battery sticker or just the part number?�
Aug 25, 2015
Pete90D Controls -> Driving -> Max Power text -> turn on -> close button -> wait...
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If you can tell me where the sticker is I can�
Aug 25, 2015
ArtInCT The battery part number is just behind the passenger front wheel under the car and on the side of the main traction battery pack (outward facing).
There are two stickers there... from what I have seen on a 90D.
Thanks Pete90D.�
Aug 25, 2015
Pete90D I also wanted to follow up about the blurry vision people reported. Everyone is different so I won't say it isn't going to happen to people, but I haven't had any blurry vision or headaches. I think the first couple times I drove a P85D it was a bit of a shock and I felt different, but nothing like that in the P90D.
I will say though that the 2nd day of owning it, my neck was a little sore from random hard acceleration. I experienced this after a number of launches in a P85D and just got used to launching without my head against the seat and was fine. I think I wasn't prepared for having the extra intensity in the 30-60 range where it is less likely I'd be "prepared" with my head back or tensing up to prep for a launch.
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I'm also trying to arrange for various high speed tests in a place where lots of video can be taken and I can push limits more. A few tests I want to try
0-155
0-120
30-90
30-120
60-90
60-120
90-120�
Aug 25, 2015
LetsGoFast Superchargers are essentially dumb devices. The car controls how much power it draws, so any change to the programming will be on the car side of the equation.�
Aug 25, 2015
Andyw2100 All you have posted has definitely been appreciated.
You certainly know your own limits, what's safe, etc.
That being said, I hope I can safely speak for others when I say we really don't have a heck of a lot of need for the 0-155, and I don't care where you'd be doing it, or how experienced a driver you are at high speed, but that one worries me!
Best of luck! And be careful!�
Aug 25, 2015
CleanPower It looks like the 90D is charging at an average of 6 kW lower charging rate than the 85D assuming you charge for 30 minutes starting at about 20% State of Charge.
This would be from 10 minutes to 40 minutes on the graph above.
That means that the 90D will add 3kWh less during that 30 minute charging session. This works out to about 9.5 miles less range added during those 30 minutes - assuming 315 wh/mile. Another way of looking at it would be that the 90D will have to charge for 34 minutes to get the same charge the 85D gets in 30 minutes.
Let me know if that answers your question.�
Aug 25, 2015
kushari Congrats man! You are awesome for joining the rEVolution. I plan on getting the P90D or whatever the high end model is in a year or two. Right now My 70D is great and affordable haha.
I was able to afford mine (finance) with the help of my father for the down payment. I'm 28. Hopfully getting the top of the line model in a year or two�
Aug 25, 2015
sorka Tesla might be being cautious until they collect more data. From my hobby experience one of the tradeoffs of buying higher capacity 16850 cells is that higher capacity batteries that contain some silicon have a lower maximum discharge rate. This is the tradeoff. If this is indeed a factor perhaps they're trying to mitigate degradation by having a slightly slower charge rate.
It's also possible that they've solved this and the new Sanyo cells don't have any of these limitations. If so that would be significant breakthrough.�
Aug 25, 2015
pbceng Hi All,
just an observation - the P90D pack looks to have slightly higher impedance than the pack in the 85 in Kman's video which will reduce the charge rate and the efficiency of charge, however this could be down to several factors such as ambient temperature and age of the pack. I'm not a Li-Ion expert, but a brand new pack will probably take a few charge/discharge cycles to reach optimal performance. Kman's loaner would have seen a lot more use (abuse?) than the brand new pack.�
Aug 25, 2015
sorka Does cell impedance normally decrease with age even in the very beginning? My 85 has the same charge curve as it had when it was new.�
Aug 25, 2015
pdq I ordered a P90D last month as a B-Day present, but 65, not 33. Unlike the post above, mine is not going to have staggered width tires, perhaps because I ordered it with the 19" wheels, not the 21s.�
Aug 25, 2015
LargeHamCollider I don't think we have the data to conclude this, variance is well below the noise floor wrt existing observed tapers�
Aug 25, 2015
okashira Use the car's built in heating at the supercharger?
Barring that, they are heated by I^2*R during use. Peak I is 20 amps per cell at peak power.
So do acceleration runs from 30mph to 80mph (or whatever the range is the car pulls peak power) and regen brake at peak back down. Go between 30 and 80 a couple times then hit the supercharger.
Don't brake use regen for slowing 75 to 30. That will add some heat too and less range lost.�
Aug 25, 2015
pbceng Agreed, single samples are never a good starting point, but then neither is comparing a well used battery with a new one - certainly in my (admittedly limited) experience of battery characterisation.�
Aug 25, 2015
Pete90D I started writing some code last night to make use of the API for capturing more data to share with everyone. Things are busy so I'm not sure what the timeline will be for that.
I have noticed there are several options listed for my car that aren't in the price book and either there are some new entries in responses for certain cars or they are unlisted in the unofficial documentation.�
Aug 25, 2015
apacheguy Cell impedance inceases with age, but almost imperceptiably so until you start getting to 1,000 cycles or some such. My understanding at least.�
Aug 25, 2015
Rafik Can you provide some examples?�
Aug 25, 2015
Pete90D These were missing from the older pricebook I found
Unknown: BP01
Unknown: BR01
Unknown: COUS
Unknown: DA02
Unknown: DCF0
Unknown: MS04
Unknown: PMNG
Unknown: PX4D
Unknown: RENA
Unknown: RFP2
Unknown: TP03
Downloading the latest pricebook from the Tesla site these are now not found
Unknown: PI01
Unknown: QNEB
Unknown: X040
I emailed the API stuff to Tim since he would know more if they are new options or ones just left out of his documentation. I know some things like 'odometer' are well known, but not in his documentation�
Aug 25, 2015
Dennis87 Did you find the sticker on the battery that show part number?
Want to check if the battery is shown in the part catalog.�
Aug 25, 2015
Pete90D Ugh! I forgot to look while I was just out. I'll take a picture when I go out later.
I did take this photo though. I don't know that it shows much, but it's more information.
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1063792-00-A�
Aug 25, 2015
tom66 And out of interest, does it specify 90kWh on the pack sticker, or something like 85kWh+ or expanded?
I wonder if Tesla will begin shipping all 85kWh cars with downrated 90kWh packs, perhaps with a software tweak. Might even make sense from a reliability/warranty perspective if the cost of the silicon li-ion cells is low enough.�
Aug 25, 2015
Pete90D Not sure. Part of the sticker was under the cover and at the time it wasn't convenient to change that.
They did do that with the S40. It was more cost effective to just produce the 60kWh pack and limit it via software so I wouldn't be surprised if 85s came with the same part.�
Aug 25, 2015
Khatsalano You know what would have been awesome instead of Ludicrous speed, is Ludicrous range. For a $10,000 upgrade I am certain we could have gotten a 100kWh pack in there easily. Maybe even more (but with diminishing returns for weight). I think there are some customers (like me!) would would be happy with 4.0 sec performance but 320 miles of rated range.
- K�
Aug 26, 2015
apacheguy @Khatsalano - The battery enclosure is space constrained. In order to add capacity you either have increase energy density or add cells. The latter is not an option and I don't know if there are better cells available in terms of energy density for automotive applications.�
Aug 26, 2015
sorka So it appears Powertools is dead and no longer functioning. The last time I used it was about a month ago. Visible Tesla is still working which at least means API isn't totally locked out. Perhaps Tesla tightened up some of the authenticated loopholes in such a way that VT still works while PT doesn't. Perhaps they changed the location of the servers and VT had a way of updating those in the existing app. I'm only guessing. But since VT still works, it stands to reason PT should be fixable. I sent the developer a message but haven't heard back yet.�
Aug 26, 2015
apacheguy And how is this related to the subject of this thread? Seems like something better suited for the REST API thread.
Ah, you probably meant to post over here:
Max Battery Power setting in P90DL - Page 6�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D Sorka asked me to use powertools to collect some data and I wasn't able to get it working.�
Aug 26, 2015
sorka
There were a few posts earlier in this thread, like #86, requesting that Pete get REST data. Sorry if it seemed out of place.
So I just got back from being a passenger on Pete's rail gun roller coaster ride. It's quite something being a passenger
So it's basically like in sane mode all the way up to 60 MPH. Actually, there's more power everywhere including freeway passing. I can't wait to see what the vbox data has in store!
Thanks again Pete. I can't wait to upgrade to L myself.�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D No problem! I'm glad you enjoyed it and that you were able to notice a difference.�
Aug 26, 2015
Andyw2100 Wondering if you did any launches with Ludicrous mode enabled, but without the max battery power heating on, and if so, what sorka thought of those launches as compared to P85D insane launches.
I ask for the obvious reason that it is possible the Ludicrous upgrade on the P85D could be limited to something that feels more like that than the launch that includes the max battery power mode turned on.�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D I launched L-mode, L-mode heated, and also did 30-60, and 60+ on highway. He will be able to tell you what he felt between all of them
I do remember him saying he noticed the difference in the launch without the heated battery�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D I was able to get the streaming API working via Python so when I go out to use the VBOX later tonight I'll tether my laptop and capture the power data as well. Watching a video of a P85D doing 0-60 in insane mode I see the power being higher.
vs mine
�
Aug 26, 2015
brianman Pete, take a look at the post linked below. My P85D has some similar codes that I've identified; for example, mine has TP02.
Battery code for P85+ and D models�
Aug 26, 2015
Andyw2100 Thanks. That sounds promising!�
Aug 26, 2015
dsm363 Is there no warning about increased degradation with this use like performance mode in the Roadster?�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D Nothing on the screen, the manual hasn't been updated for the P90D yet, and my DS never mentioned anything�
Aug 26, 2015
dsm363 Thanks. It's possible it doesn't but might be worth asking.�
Aug 26, 2015
sorka Yea, the biggest difference was that between my P85D and the P90DL without battery heating. I can't say I noticed any difference after the battery heat cycle completed. That said, took quite a while. We drove around for it seems like at least 15 minutes before the max power said it was ready. By then, KW had been drained from the battery and it could be that the slight decrease in power from 90% to whatever it was when the heat cycle was done would have canceled each other out. Can't be positive. I also could be that the max power mode is only a tiny bit more than Ludicrous without it which would be good thing in the grand schema of things. You don't always want to be running the max power conditioning if you can avoid it. I suspect it will make that slight difference on the drag strip. You'll never be able to time it for the stop light encounter as it would just take too long. Not like the P90D is going to need it for pretty much anything. 0-60 is vicious.�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D I'll post more information after I play some more, but right now max power is 456 KW�
Aug 26, 2015
Andyw2100 As a preliminary indication, this does not look good from a horsepower standpoint, right? If I've done the math right, based on the assumption that the P85D's max kW is 415 resulting in a max HP of 557, that would be a max HP of 612 HP.�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D Yeah 456 was the highest I got with and without the max battery option at ready. If you think about it... 10% HP/KW improvement... L-mode costs 10% of the car. So really you are getting what you pay for haha!
�
Aug 26, 2015
Andyw2100 Well, I'm not going to throw the towel in on this one yet. When the very first video of a P90D with Ludicrous surfaced, and wk057 pointed out that based on the power meter, he doubted the horsepower claims would be met, I pointed out that it was possible Tesla just hadn't fully enabled Ludicrous mode yet. So perhaps that really is what we're seeing.
�
Aug 26, 2015
apacheguy Cue the "ludicrous mode is now even more ludicrous" update.�
Aug 26, 2015
sorka Congrats on being the first pull a hard number out of the battery with L mode. What SOC was this? Can't wait to see what the max power difference is. If everything is consistent, the vbox should come up with about 550 at the wheels with those kW numbers above. Really can't wait to see the first 1/4 mile timeslips. Unless we can get those numbers up a bit more, I'm not sure how they can get 8 tenths off the 1/4 mile time.�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D I'm not saying this to turn this into a big HP debate, but I do want to point out that 612 instead of 762 is a ~20% loss, and ICE cars I've seen have had a 20+% loss from crank to wheel. I don't know much about EVs yet so I don't know if there would be an equivalent loss. I've never expected a car to actually put out the numbers they say because of the loss.
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I recorded two passes, both had 456 as the max and the first was at 90% and the other was probably closer to 85%.
I've been trying to get the vbox working, but I haven't mastered getting it to time right. The first time I thought it would recalculate anything from 0, but it doesn't seem to. The 2nd time it gave me a 30-130mph graph and another graph had a max of 350mph. I definitely didn't go 350mph.�
Aug 26, 2015
Andyw2100 But the 612 would be --BEFORE-- drive train loss.
Also I believe with our cars people typically expect about a 10% drive train loss.
See sorka's post, (below) which he was probably writing at the same time you were writing yours. He's expecting to see 550 at the wheels.
�
Aug 26, 2015
sorka It's true, at least from my own REST numbers compared to hp at the wheels via vbox that the drivetrain loss is far less than any AWD ICE. If the vbox is relatively accurate, it's about 10% vs double that for typical AWD cars, so you could give the tesla discount and say it's not as low is the numbers would suggest compared to an AWD.
So 611 hp at battery = 550 hp at the wheels in the Tesla while 611 hp at the crank in a typical AWD car = 488 hp at the wheels. ICE car would have to make 687 at the crank to put down 550 hp at the wheels.
Let's see what you get at 90% with max power in ready mode.
And this is your birthday thread, so I too don't want to turn this into a big long drawn out debate. Regardless, the difference was a noticeable kick in the pants�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D It is true this is 59 and not 60, but this is the data I pulled from the streaming API and this shows 3s exactly from 0-59 guessing there's probably a 250ms loss on either side.
�
Aug 26, 2015
sorka Pipe several of those vbox runs into vBox Verify. You should see somewhere in the 2.8's *WITH* the 1ft rollout or about 3.1 seconds without the 1ft rollout. vBox Verify will show both at the same time. Make sure you're stopped for a good 5 seconds before accelerating so the software will be able to detected the 0 MPH mark. Also, if you're not using the external antenna, sometimes the noise can make the speed of the car constantly going in a zig zag at 1 mph or so(slow) but it can be enough to mess with the online versions auto detection between runs.�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D Used the external antenna. Can I just leave it recording and it will auto-detect the stopping at 0 again? it didn't seem to do that the first couple times and I kept turning it off and on to get it to start over. Then when I did the other runs. I stopped, waited for sat to go solid, then floored it, and I've only gotten 30-60, 30-130 numbers (I did not go 130mph)�
Aug 26, 2015
sorka Yea, if you press the record button so it just constantly records even when you're stopped, vbox verify will detect the breaks and organize all the runs with and without the 1 ft rollout. If you don't press the record button, the vbox will still record but it will pause when it detects there's been no movement for a few seconds. I'm not sure if this would mess up vbox verify or not.�
Aug 26, 2015
WarpedOne advertised power? Where, wich lanugage?�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D 0-60 @ 3.236s with 1.689% slope
0-60 (1-ft) @ 2.901s with 1.689% slope
- No battery heating
- 95% SOC
- Low suspension
- 215lb driver
- No A/C
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Anyone know if the DragTimes time of 3.05 was 1ft rollout or straight 0-60? I see he was at ~100% when he did the run.�
Aug 26, 2015
sorka That's a certainly a significant drop over the current P85D. I don't think it's a stretch to believe that will dip into the 2.8s with the battery at optimal temperature. A very nice 0-60 improvement�
Aug 26, 2015
Dennis87 The dragtimes videos are with rollout.�
Aug 26, 2015
Pete90D KW didn't seem to change. The graph I showed earlier was part with off and part with it on. We'll see what a higher SOC gives me for both now that the API is back up. Maybe tomorrow night depending on my meeting schedule for Friday.
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�
Aug 27, 2015
sorka Interesting. There's a really wide swing in g-force of over 1/2 g from 2.0 to 2.5 seconds. Did you notice any stuttering or possible traction issues? Oh, and the sight rise in altitude as you did that run will slow down the 0-60 some.�
Aug 27, 2015
Pete90D I can't say it was slipping, but it didn't feel right either. Hopefully one of these runs I do I won't have any issues and we'll get better data. It seems like every time I do it something is off.�
Aug 27, 2015
sorka Feel free to keep the vbox for longer if you need it. There's not rush.....except for the rush of Ludicrous�
Aug 27, 2015
Pete90D Thanks! and thanks again for letting me borrow it. Looking at the graph and where the G's start getting weird, it's shortly after the 40mph mark, which in the 30-60 peak. So I bet I was losing more traction than I felt.�
Aug 27, 2015
duncanduncan Thx Pete90D for all the usefull info!! My P90D Ludicrous is to be delivered end october..
I'm very interested in 0-100mph times... <7s??? :smile:
And of course the passing power (times) 62-124mph for example (100-200km/h).. That's where the P85D falls short in my opinion!
Do you already have the "updated" tail lights?�
Aug 27, 2015
Ames Hi Pete,
From your first video and one other I can hear a slight surge in the motor sound. It could be possible you are losing traction. Thank you for your altruistic approach to gathering data.
Alex�
Aug 27, 2015
AnOutsider Mod Note: A couple posts moved to snippiness.�
Aug 27, 2015
Pete90D Passing power has improved quite a bit. I'm not planning on posting numbers above 70 unless I find a track because I'd prefer not to post incriminating evidence. Just personal preference.
I do have the updated tail lights. There's a picture further up of what they look like.�
Aug 27, 2015
AWDtsla IMHO loss at highest power levels could be very high, while loss at low power output could be closer to 0. We don't know where the power is being measured. After line/inverter loss and/or even motor loss?
Again, the Model S is only one of 2 cars in the world (that I know of) that have ever had a power gauge, the other being the Bugatti Veyron.�
Aug 27, 2015
spottyq Bimmers are ahead of Tesla in that regard (since a few years a least); they have a power and a torque meter.
�
Aug 27, 2015
duncanduncan I fully understand that, sorry for not realizing that! Nice to hear that you can feel a difference at all at higher speeds... sounds encouraging to me!
Nice lights, no more moist for you overthere! :smile:
�
Aug 27, 2015
ScepticMatt Interesting. So even though power levels don't seem very different (?), the 0-60 times are a definite improvement.�
Aug 27, 2015
dhanson865 Nissan Leaf has a power gauge on the center screen (goes to 80KW) and had that in 2011 before the Model S came out.
I think most of the modern mass produced EVs have similar gauges.�
Aug 27, 2015
sorka 50 hp on a 5000 car is enough to shave 0.2 seconds off or more in the various online 0-60 calculators so it's not insignificant. It may not live up the original "advertised power" of the P85D but it's a step in the right direction.�
Aug 27, 2015
okashira Tesla could be including the battery loss at peak power in their power *rating*.
At 20 amps per cell and 0.04 per cell (numbers I've verified myself) that's 16W per cell, or about 115kW of power/heat lost due to cell impedance.
The dash/car measures battery power, so
455kW * .95 (eff of motor/inverter) = 580hp + 115kW energy lost at battery = 734 hp.
Hell take out the loss of the motor/inverter and you get right at 760 hp total system power. Just only 580hp of propulsion power peak.
Yeah the pack is taking a heat load of 115kW at peak power. Good thing it's distributed over 1,000 lbs of battery and only for 5 seconds at a time. ;-)
I am 99.5% certain it's battery volts * amps, so it doesn't even include wiring losses, let alone inverter/motor/gearbox loss.�
Aug 27, 2015
Pete90D I forgot to share this earlier, the battery code in the VIN is a V for the 90kw pack.�
Aug 28, 2015
cynix It's apparently E in Australia. I wonder if the battery is somehow different, or maybe they've changed it again since they last submitted the VIN format in July.�
Aug 28, 2015
Tesla S1 What is difference in "updated" lights?�
Aug 28, 2015
Pete90D The applique slope downward towards the sides and apparently not integrated into the actual headlights. The TESLA is also raised a bit more.�
Aug 28, 2015
Tesla S1 thanks�
Aug 28, 2015
ArtInCT Tail-lights. The new facia apparently has no integrated lens in the area where it overlaps the tail lamps. This may stop the water clouding of that older integrated plastic lens. Also the TESLA logo in the facia is a bit more raised or stands proud. I have not seen the new rear facia in person just a few pictures from cars assembled after mid August.�
Aug 28, 2015
Pete90D Clearly a lack of sleep on my part. I have definitely not tried to drive the P90D in reverse at public road speeds to use the rear as headlights. Just letting everyone know I'm not driving everywhere in reverse.�
Aug 28, 2015
jpet Indeed, the VINs in Europe have an E as well for the 90 kWh battery. My guess is that the E might stand for Extended. Previously we had S for Standard and H for High.
Anyone with a 90D on order that has a W in the VIN? Maybe the W is for the special pack containing the ludicrous hardware since the new fuse and contactors are located inside the pack. They need some way to distinguish between a regular 90 kWh pack and a ludicrous one...�
Aug 28, 2015
ArtInCT Jpet: Yes indeed it would be interesting to know if the P90D and P90D both have the same traction pack. If that were the case, then one could perhaps "upgrade" a P90D to the Ludicrous P90D with simply a software key upgrade.�
Aug 28, 2015
Andyw2100 But if you were driving everywhere in reverse, you would have seen the guy that rear-ended you coming, and could have gotten away!�
Aug 28, 2015
Pete90D The one time I'm not launching in reverse and I get hit from behind... That would be a sight seeing a car just drive around in reverse.�
Aug 28, 2015
Crowded Mind Weirdly enough, I was thinking about that the other day on my commute. It would be a solid prank for someone to modify a car to appear that it was being driven in reverse. I'm sure that would get plenty of good reactions and YouTube hits.�
Aug 28, 2015
thegruf
I dont think this will happen. The new fuses are seriously more expensive than the standard ones, so I can't see Tesla fitting these by default to all 90KWH batteries.
(An interesting thought if they did, is that Tesla could possibly then offer a 60+mph perofrmance upgrade to the 90D too, though can't see that happening either)�
Aug 28, 2015
tom66 I'm pretty sure that's illegal and extremely dangerous. Not trying to be a debbie downer here but on a highway? No way. Maybe some quiet residential road at low speed... but even then it's confusing and dangerous.�
Aug 28, 2015
Crowded Mind Yes, you are likely right. Don't worry, I have no such plans or capabilities!�
Aug 29, 2015
Rafik Hmm, I have a P90DL on order in the US and mytesla.com lists the VIN for my car with an E, not a V. Could the E be a placeholder until the car is actually produced?�
Aug 29, 2015
jpet Oops, I see I made a mistake in my earlier post. It should have been V instead of W. Thanks for pointing that out!
@Pete90D, did your VIN show a V for the battery type from the start?�
Aug 29, 2015
Pete90D Yep, right after they change the config from a P85D to a P90D�
Aug 30, 2015
dhanson865 Been done a million times already.
On CHiPs in the late 70s/early 80s (probably before then as well) and many times since then some do it with a car that been:
a. two front ends welded together
b. chassis rotated 180 on frame (drive drain reversed)
c. second set of controls (can be in combination with a.)
d. do it the hard way and actually drive backwards (maybe even with a transmission change)
Backwards Porsche 928 – Mythbusters Porsche Mod is a more recent project.
Some guy in India has been driving backwards in 2003 when his transmission wouldn't shift. He later had the transmission downgraded/upgraded/changed to be 4 gears reverse, 1 gear forward.
Stuck In Reverse: Indian Man Drives Backwards On Busy Roads�
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