Feb 12, 2012
bonnie View attachment 4242
But look at that cute face.
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Feb 12, 2012
Lloyd I tend to agree. To me it's like they are trying to emulate the grill of an ICE which needs all of the air intake to cool the gas burning engine. The actual intakes are fairly small. I feel they need to accentuate the smallness of the actual intakes and set themselves apart with a new looking and innovative front perspective. JMHO......�
Feb 12, 2012
Doug_G I think it looks a little angry...�
Feb 12, 2012
bonnie In a cute way.�
Feb 12, 2012
mailscotty Hope 4 negative posts don't upset anybody. I do agree Model S and X have much more positive aspects than the negative. However, Tesla can look at the comments from a constructive standpoint to improve on. Perhaps I will buy one of them anyway.�
Feb 12, 2012
Vger Roadsters have a radiator. Model X also has liquid cooled battery (and motor), so I believe it does have a radiator.�
Feb 12, 2012
bonnie It's not that you upset anyone (well not that I know of) - it's just that we get trolls here at times, and a sure way to identify is that they show up, make a lot of negative comments, and then go away. You have to wonder as to the motivation ...
So welcome.�
Feb 12, 2012
bonnie Roadsters do not have a radiator to cool the battery. At least mine does not, last time I checked.�
Feb 12, 2012
Vger By the time it ships, range may go up over what they can quote now; by the time you are ready for your first battery replacement in 7-8 years, range will definitely go up!�
Feb 12, 2012
mailscotty Thanks. No I have not ridden either one of them but watching Tesla for years. They are the real thing and head of the pack because of their innovation.�
Feb 12, 2012
stopcrazypp I'm kind of surprised at this kind of reaction this late in the game. Unless I remembered it wrong, most people liked the styling of the original Model S prototype (grille included) and Tesla has pretty much stuck to that design for both cars.
Here's the grille discussion:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/2487-Model-S-prototype-front-ends
The grille wasn't vestigial in the original prototype (but became so after the new vents on the alphas).�
Feb 12, 2012
vfx 
When we say the S does not have a radiator we are say it's not the traditional big roundish shape with a grill in the center of the cars nose. People are used to seeing the mouth of the car.
Those days are history. EVs do not need as much air to cool (and radiators are more efficient) The S and X have paint or surface material changes like the Chevy Volt.
The LEAF is pretty successful by replacing the grill with a charge part door.
It's tough to make the design jump and totally eliminate what people have been accustomed to for 100 years.
As you see in the X image there are two small vent holes at the lower part of the black center shape but most of the air flow is nowadays done with the radiator at the bottom 1/8th of the car's front. This is much better for aerodynamics. The mouth on the S image below is just black plastic.
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Feb 12, 2012
doug Might just be a troll. Let us know (via PM) if action should be taken. Seems harmless so far.�
Feb 12, 2012
AnOutsider I agree, his subsequent posts don't seem trollish, but the first 4 definitely seemed to head in that direction. Welcome aboard man.�
Feb 12, 2012
doug Does the T form the beak?
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Feb 12, 2012
AnOutsider I wonder if the cf on the X nose is indicative of the CF that will be on the performance S�
Feb 12, 2012
bonnie exactly.�
Feb 12, 2012
Lloyd Better?
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Feb 12, 2012
Doug_G Kinda like Angry Birds (tm).�
Feb 12, 2012
NigelM Roadster doesn't. In any case, I was referring to a radiator in the classic ICE where you need air flowing over a water filled container. The liquid cooling in the Model S (and I guess the X) runs through the AC and is not water cooled AFAIK.�
Feb 12, 2012
brianman To me, it looks like the mesh portion is the bottom of a sliding door with the black part being the opening for some Knight Rider weapon.�
Feb 12, 2012
ckessel Seems like there's been a pretty big influx of brand new folks here purely to complain about the X. I don't particularly mind the criticisms, but it seems a bit unhinged to me for someone that wasn't a Tesla person to begin with to go to the trouble to go find a forum and do the registration just so they can complain.�
Feb 12, 2012
Norbert Besides I see it as the nose!�
Feb 12, 2012
bonnie Could be worse ...
Mitsuoka Orochi
If the mere thought of snakes makes you shiver, you might find the Mitsuoka Orochi's serpentine stare uncomfortably familiar. Named for a giant mythical Japanese eight-headed snake, the Orochi sports a mouth-like grille, reptilian-looking quad headlights and a wide, triangular-shaped front end that make it appear ready to attack.�
Feb 12, 2012
strider Ok, so it's late and I've been drinking so please forgive me but I recall from some early Model S pics/discussion that they showed the front end with large "radiators" on each side and they were saying that one was for the cabin and the other was for the motor, PEM, battery cooling.
Why wouldn't they make use of the passive cooling from the motion of the car pushing air over the radiator to help cool the components?�
Feb 12, 2012
doug Guys, this stuff is discussed in other threads. You may not want to call that thing under the hood of the Roadster (with the big fans on it) a radiator, but it certainly is a heat exchanger. And the Model S has at least three heat exchangers in the front. One of which is a radiator for the water cooling loop of the motor and inverter (kept around 60C).�
Feb 13, 2012
TEG Model S Alpha 'radiators' pic:
http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/teslaalphatourfrontend2.jpg�
Feb 13, 2012
NigelM BTW, that black foam looks like the stuff that is visible at the front end of the Fisker Karma.�
Feb 13, 2012
AnOutsider The Karma stuff looks more styrofoam-ish doesn't it?�
Feb 13, 2012
Vger Thanks, doug and TEG for coming to my defence. On the style front, the reason that the Model S (and probably X) have THREE radiators/heat exchanges in separate apertures is for aerodynamic efficiency. This is why the final Model S looks very different in the nose from the design prototype. I had this explained to me in detail, in person, by Jerome Guillen, Model S Program Director, when he was in Vancouver last year. The idea was to separate the drivetrain cooling from the people cooling functions. In cooler climates, with limited air conditioning use (like BC :smile: ), the Model S (and presumably the X) can close louvers over those heat exchangers to block air flow and reduce drag. Pretty darn clever, if you ask me!�
Feb 13, 2012
NigelM For the sake of brevity my original post was trying to make the point that neither the Roadster, the S or the X require a front grill � la ICE's. I didn't intend to divert this thread to a technical one on the differences between heat exchangers, radiators or anything else. My point (albeit maybe missing the mark) was that the front end of the X could have been designed looking very different to a standard car....�
Feb 13, 2012
Waverider I think they kept some sort of conventional-ish looking fronts of the S and X because we're used to seeing that on cars. If they pushed the envelope too hard, it might come across as weird. The 2020 S probably won't have anything other than the barest suggestion of a grille. Just enough to suggest the "Tesla design language" or whatever car designers call it.�
Feb 13, 2012
Norbert Maybe that part is also made out of plastic to avoid damage in those little bumps that happen occasionally in stop'n'go traffic...�
Feb 13, 2012
dsm363 I agree. Look at the number of comments about the Falcon doors (people either seem to love them or think they're a gimmick). They're trying to come up with a common design language and if they stray too far from what a traditional car looks like, they might alienate too many potential buyers.�
Feb 13, 2012
vfx I thought I said that.�
Feb 14, 2012
de704 My Reactions to the Model X: orgasmic�
Feb 14, 2012
vfx Not sure if this Forbes was posted.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahelliott/2012/02/10/world-debut-the-tesla-model-x/�
Feb 14, 2012
vfx 3:30 to 5:30
7:30 to 8:30 too
For a guy who is buying the S it's surprising he knows so little about the X.�
Feb 14, 2012
Mycroft Thanks for marking the window of when they talked about it. I don't think I could watch much more. At least he didn't say $50,000 as the start price.
Now, lets all get out in our garage and start building our own EVs!�
Feb 14, 2012
TEG Yes, some were concerned that we might get this:
But instead got something more conventional looking (not counting the somewhat wild Falcon doors and camera mirror replacements.)�
Feb 14, 2012
AnOutsider I still think that EYE concept is cool... Not sure I'd drive it... But not hideous.�
Feb 14, 2012
vfx Yeah there might be more past 8:30. I just could not take it any more. And the sidekick whined about a 27 minute Tesla video!�
Feb 14, 2012
neroden I'm STILL waiting to find out where the front license plate goes.
On a car which needs no grille, the front should be designed to provide a clean, elegant front license plate mount.�
Feb 14, 2012
AnOutsider Except many people don't need one... Tesla has stated there will be a grille that is designed for markets that need front plates.�
Feb 14, 2012
neroden Anyway, my reaction:
I think I was expecting Tesla to perform more miracles, and I'm a little disappointed that they didn't. :wink: The model X doesn't have the space of a full-sized van, is on the cramped side even for a minivan, and doesn't have the clearance, off-road capability, or rack space of an SUV.
However, for the "faux SUV" or "minivan for people who don't really need a minivan but think they do" markets, it seems perfect. I think that is actually what Tesla was going for, and I think they've succeeded, so it will probably sell lots and lots and lots.�
Feb 14, 2012
neroden Like the whole of Europe, and the majority of the US and Canada. US and Canada State and Province License Plate requirements. the politics of Green
Most people need a front plate. I'm eager to see what the car REALLY looks like from the front, with the grille which is designed for the majority of markets. I'm hoping it makes it look BETTER.�
Feb 14, 2012
NigelM My wife is right there; she likes the "feel" of taking an SUV on the school run, likes sitting up higher and feels "safer". I told her that we can't justify 3 cars so she suggested I keep the "S", she'll take an "X" and I should sell the Roadster....
P.S. There's no way I'm selling my Roadster!�
Feb 14, 2012
brianman Heh. I bet a forum member would garage it for you, as long as you let them put ~1,000 mi on it a year.�
Feb 14, 2012
AnOutsider Doubtful.�
Feb 15, 2012
zachster One of the only design decisions I have second thoughts about is the presence of floor dividers that come down from the center of the dash/display. One of the cleanest design decisions of the upcoming BMW i series was to make the front have uninhibited floor space. I think this would look amazing on both the S and X. I wonder why Franz decided to go with these sculpted dividers. It seems to interrupt the flow of design IMO.
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Feb 15, 2012
mpt Managing separate left/right cabin temperature?
Actually, I prefer the divided look.�
Feb 15, 2012
dsm363 Also things from passenger side not sliding to drivers side near accelerator and brake pedals.�
Feb 15, 2012
efusco Agree wtih DSM and MPT--The open thing is very 60s/70s old school and gives the impression of a lot more room. But that middle space, when divided, can be put to good use for storage and prevents the danger of stuff on the floor sliding and getting in the way of the accelerator and brakes which could be a serious hazard.�
Feb 15, 2012
dsm363 I like the modular approach. Those two side vertical sheets could have grooves or something on them. Tesla or aftermarket companies could sell various bins that slide into place. Tesla could design a plug on the floor and release the specs that had power and communications to the car. An iPhone or android phone dock component could be easily added and still get power and music to the car.�
Feb 15, 2012
ckessel The open look is sort of clean and aethestically pleasing, but it's not terribly functional. As has been noted, stuff can slide under the driver's feet on turns, there's no storage, there's no center console to rest the driver's knee while driving, etc.�
Feb 15, 2012
AnOutsider Yup, plus the S does NOT have the dividers and it was a point of contention for many. I, for one, am glad to see that there on the X.�
Feb 15, 2012
zachster Well in this case crowd wisdom prevails. After some thought I agree with everyone about the functional advantages.�
Feb 15, 2012
doug As MPT implied, they're conduits for the rear heating and cooling.�
Feb 15, 2012
Mycroft I love the floating display look. Much better and more modern looking than the attempt at integration.�
Feb 15, 2012
PV4EV ^This^ ... I've relied upon being able to do this in virtually every car I've ever owned ! (although it might be less of a habit amongst people with shorter legs than I)�
Feb 15, 2012
PV4EV Would be even more stunning if (somehow..) the entire thing retracted into the dash as well !!�
Feb 15, 2012
Doug_G +1!
..�
Feb 15, 2012
TEG Yes, I thought so too.
Some people seem to dislike it though. Hopefully they will warm up to it over time.�
Feb 15, 2012
Doug_G Incorrect, the Model S HAS the dividers. See my (somewhat crappy) photo of the Signature Red Beta.
Edit: you call this a thumbnail?�
Feb 15, 2012
ElSupreme I too have always rested my leg there. My GTI also has a bar I use as a 'grab handle' there for when I take a clover leaf exit REALLY fast.�
Feb 15, 2012
AnOutsider Well, good then, glad to see it's there.�
Feb 15, 2012
vfx I think the floating display is better too. It solves the design constriction dilemma.
The entire dash might have many more angles than desigener would have wanted because you can't have a rigid square screen shape in a curvy space. You have to echo it on some design level. When curved glass can conform to a curved dash (corning video) then it will be amazing.�
Feb 15, 2012
AnOutsider Yep, I've said elsewhere that I'm hoping (possibly against hope) that the screen and steering wheel make it into the Model S production vehicles. The steering wheel can be retrofitted, but not the screen (since you'd have to change the whole dash)�
Feb 15, 2012
Robert.Boston I was told directly by my customer rep that the interior of the Model S was going to be what we've seen, at least to the level of "if you take your glasses off" broader strokes. I take that to mean that things like the steering wheel design are open, but the layout of the display is not.�
Feb 15, 2012
tdelta1000 Not sure if this question has been asked. Is the Model X that we all saw at the unveiling considered the Alpha version or a concept?�
Feb 15, 2012
AnOutsider Elon said on Twitter that it's an "advanced prototype" nearly identical to production
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Feb 15, 2012
tdelta1000 Hey AnOutsider,
Interesting...That means the Model X could come into production ahead of what Tesla Motors have already projected. Real cool.�
Feb 15, 2012
dsm363 All of the major work should already be done with the Model S. Integrating the second motor and the AWD system would be new but everything else should be interior and the falcon wing doors. Very smart of Tesla to capitalize off of their Model S investment as much as possible. Maybe a Model S coupe down the road too as a pseudo-Roadster placeholder until the Roadster 3.0 comes out 4 years from now.�
Feb 15, 2012
Kevin Harney I am taking this to mean Alpha. Is that how everyone reads it ? How long was it from Model S Alpha to Beta ? pretty sure this A to B will be shorter given the experience they now have with this....�
Feb 15, 2012
AnOutsider We're 5 months out from S deliveries and no RC, so I'd assume X RC after July 2013. We got betas in October which would be 10 months before July deliveries, so if X follows suit, we'd get X beta around January/Feb 2013.
X alphas then, would be 4 months before that, and so Octoberish of this year.�
Feb 16, 2012
AnOutsider I Hate The Tesla Model X, And Why It Will Sell Well�
Feb 16, 2012
Doug_G Remember the old curved CRTs? Reflections are a LOT worse than a flat panel.�
Feb 16, 2012
onlinespending I love most of the Model X except for the 17" display seemingly plopped on to the dash as an afterthought. IMHO, it's not a good look and looks out of place. It needs to be more integrated into the dash in a more seamless and elegant way. You could have it flush with the dash and have the leather trim run along the tops and bottom, with the accented trim forming a seam at the sides. The 17" display is almost already too big for its own good, but having it float out from the dash is a bit of an eye sore.�
Feb 16, 2012
de704 I actually like the front of the Model X better then the S. The Model X front is actually closer to the model S prototype front (The bottom front lights are the same, etc). I always felt the Beta Model S grill stuck out a little too far. The Model X front is actualy shorter,.. Either that or the wheels are pushed out closer to the corners. other than that, it's just a taller Model S... With "DeLorean-esk doors" and since I'm 6'7" it's a no-brainer.
For the most part I like the Falcon doors but I real think they should have some LADAR (Laser radar) sensors. If I misjudge door clearance distance I don't want my falcon doors to rape the SUV, Truck or Wall next to me.
Now the only question is either 4okw, 60kw S2138 or 85kw XP268,..
Probably 85kw XP268.�
Feb 16, 2012
Doug_G Funny, I had the exact opposite reaction. I prefer that to the Model S dash.�
Feb 16, 2012
AnOutsider Ditto, hope it makes it down into the S�
Feb 16, 2012
vfx I hear you but anti glare technology has come a long way.�
Feb 16, 2012
onlinespending obviously it's subjective, but i'm curious why you prefer that style? to me it looks like some aftermarket hack where someone mounted an iPad or something.�
Feb 16, 2012
Mycroft There has never been a screen that large embedded in a dash before and Tesla's attempts to integrate it have been not so successful. By turning it around and accentuating the screen, the Model X takes a negative and turns it into a positive.
It kind of like when a tall slender woman wears flats and slumps her shoulders to try and hide that she's so tall. Compare that to a slender tall woman who's proud of the way she looks, stands up straight and proud, and wears heels.
Or a balding man, who instead of doing a comb-over, shaves his head, juts his chin and says, "here I am, as I am".
I LOVE the floating screen. It flouts its identity to the world.�
Feb 16, 2012
Doug_G Hard to say. One side of my family is very artistic; I kinda have the eye but not the ability. So I know when I like something and when I don't, but I find it hard to say why.
Thinking about it, I'd say that the screen tends to stick out anyway, so why not just "go with it".
Or we could just say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Edit: I just read Mycroft's post. What he said.�
Feb 16, 2012
zachster +1 Mycroft�
Feb 17, 2012
AnOutsider I think another thing is that it makes the dash look not-so-tall. It's hard for me to describe also, but th floating screen just looks way better.�
Feb 17, 2012
WhiteKnight Ergonomically it's better to have the screen up closer to the steering wheel, especially if temperature controls are always at the bottom you don't have to reach down as far.
I think setting the screen free from the rest of the dashboard, frees the dashboard to be what it wants to be as well.�
Feb 17, 2012
Joel I agree.�
Feb 17, 2012
Brian H The X is a bigger (higher) vehicle. Is there more vertical space in the front cab area? If so, that changes (changed) everything.�
Feb 18, 2012
AnOutsider Here's a pic from Charged_Up's gallery:
If you look close, it looks like the screen is actually forcing the chrome trim at the top higher than it's already going. If they did the floating screen thing like the X, the dash could be more compact and the screen wouldn't seem so squished in�
Feb 18, 2012
WhiteKnight Yes! The Model X dash looks better. The Model S dashboard is stretched (like the pig in the python) to try and swallow the screen and it looks distended.�
Feb 18, 2012
onlinespending I guess I stand alone on this one�
Feb 19, 2012
NigelM I'm with you....�
Feb 19, 2012
onlinespending well judging by this thread there's quite a number of us that prefer the Model S look.�
Feb 19, 2012
AnOutsider If it means that much, perhaps you should create a poll so you can see just how many people are with you.�
Feb 19, 2012
onlinespending Nah, doesn't mean much. But since you made that comment it clearly means something to you. Maybe you should create a poll.�
Feb 19, 2012
AnOutsider I'm insane remember? I don't need others to agree with me to be content with my choices in life. Though, it is an interesting topic to get a consensus on since it seems to be so divided. Here we go.�
Feb 23, 2012
jcstp reaction of motortrend on model x
http://youtu.be/HGV0eaEZTSk?t=4m43s�
Feb 25, 2012
brianman You've actually done it!
You've found a reason for me to like the Beta dash rather than missing the Alpha dash -- because it would be horrid for them to "fix" it by using the X steal-me-and-my-duck-tape display.�
Feb 25, 2012
Mycroft Back on topic, I just wanted to pitch in with my view. I liked the X for its stated purpose. I love the new dash design. However, I think the DRLs on the Model S look much better than on the X. The cat-eye DRLs on the S are very distinct and are going to stand out everywhere. People will see them and know instantly that it's a Tesla Model S, if they know what it is. If they don't, it's going to make them very curious. In contrast, the X DRLs look like the Xs eyes have bags under them. :scared:�
Feb 25, 2012
bonnie I agree. Hopefully that will be one of the things that changes as we get nearer production.�
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