Jan 31, 2016
dsm363 Yes. The reading issue has been covered multiple times. Electricfan says he will continue to read when he wants to but at same time is upset about Tesla releasing autopilot saying you must be attentive at all times saying it isn't safe.�
Jan 31, 2016
Electricfan Well, I'm really upset that Tesla released autopilot in such a poor state. I am honestly shocked its so bad. But maybe I'm crazy. One thing is for sure, time will tell. If AP is truly dangerous then somebody is going to die in an AP-involved accident eventually, and when that happens the members of this forum don't get to pass judgement. It will be a court, with a judge and jury. Also passing judgement will be the masses, most of whom don't drive Teslas. If fires that didn't hurt anybody were a threat to Tesla, what do you think an AP-related death will cause? I sure hope I'm wrong. Or we never find out, because Tesla releases 7.2 very quickly, and the car becomes truly safe to drive on AP. But asking people to let AP drive, but keep two hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment to catch an AP screw-up is just stupid, in my opinion. Nobody, even the boy scouts on here who follow directions so religiously, can pay attention 100% of the time. So if you enable AP, and you try your best to be attentive but the car makes a suicidal dive just at the moment you get distracted (by one of million things - billboard, car accident, sunset) anybody can be killed by AP. Tesla should not have released it if they knew it could kill somebody if their attention wanders at just the wrong moment. How is that not common sense? How can anybody think releasing a feature that might malfunction and kill someone is reasonable or socially acceptable? Like calling it "Beta" makes that ok? Really?�
Jan 31, 2016
Krugerrand How can any company, dealership or private citizen sell a product (motorized vehicles) to teenagers, pregnant women, families, and all others of adult age all over the world in the first place, that can have a mechanical failure which can lead to serious injury or death (AND HAVE), and requires the 'driver' be 100% attentive at all times? *Gobsmacked!*
If I were you, I'd be all over the worldwide banning of automobiles, motorcycles, 18-wheelers, snowmobiles, jet skis, etc... Then you'd not have to be concerned about remaining 100% attentive with AP features engaged in any of those death machines. I'd suggest horses, except that they are even more dangerous because they have free will. We need to get back to walking everywhere. It's the safest transportation mode to get from point A to point B - well, except for the Cellphone Zombies; they're pretty dangerous to themselves and others because they aren't...wait for it...paying 100% attention when driving their bodies forward. Better ban walking too.�
Jan 31, 2016
sorka It's clearly there although faint right at the 19 second boundary. Right before it hits 19 seconds to just right afterwards.�
Jan 31, 2016
ecarfan And I am amazed that you are shocked, "...shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"* (Gambling with people's lives, apparently.)
Yes, Tesla's V1 beta AP is not yet perfect. I would also point out that human drivers are very far from perfect, and cause hundreds of thousands of deaths and serious injuries worldwide every year and yet they are allowed to drive after passing laughably minimal driving tests (at least in the US).
So now you have concluded that Tesla's AP is dangerous, after repeatedly acknowledging that you have used it on public roads while completely ignoring Tesla's instructions and deliberately ignoring the road around you by reading a book while the car drove itself.
That is what shocks me.
*Obviously that is not a quote from Electricfan, but from the film "Casablanca".�
Feb 1, 2016
calisnow Fascinating video. But even if the car got confused about where the lines were - why would it actually appear to dive into the truck? That is just super weird. Wouldn't the radar and ultrasonics have told it there was an object there it was about to hit? EDIT: n/m I read more posts that say the ultrasonics turn off at a certain speed, and other posts that hypothesize that the "brain" is getting overwhelmed with sensory input and thus the radar seems to fail.
- - - Updated - - -
So the million dollar question is - would the car have seen the truck in time and suddenly braked to avoid hitting it? Yes I realize we can't test this possibility. I do wonder if Tesla is secretly banging up test mules on private tracks in scenarios like this.
- - - Updated - - -
If these kinds of "corner cases" can only be learned by the neural networks via trial and error over time then it is certainly plausible that Tesla is building an unassailable lead in the race to autonomous driving and that they might arrive at the goal several years sooner than anyone else in the industry - because nobody else in the industry has nearly the fleet size and they've had a big head start in "school."
I do wonder if this is why they pushed Autopilot out on the bleeding edge - because Musk is taking a calculated risk that nobody will die using Autopilot while the fleet learns its way to 99.9999% error-free behavior - and he knows the only way to get there is to put a big fleet on the road and let it get to learnin' so to speak.�
Feb 1, 2016
Electricfan I don't know what my allegedly inappropriate use of AP has to do with Tesla releasing what they released.
Anyway, I contacted Tesla service this morning and ask them to look at my car. They responded and are pulling the log files. I'll report if they find anything interesting.
One update - this morning as I was driving in on Beltway 8, the car just decided to drive on the shoulder for a while, all by itself. I'll post the video, although its not as exciting as the near-miss with the truck.
For the record, since everybody seems to get so heated up on the subject, I no longer read while on AP. The car used to work better - the incidents with the truck and the shoulder-cruising this morning are new, at least for me. But while its messed up I obviously don't trust it. AP isn't helping me at all right now - its much more stressful to use it than not.
Which means I wasted a lot of money upgrading my 2013 to a 2015, which might make some people on here happy, based on some of the unfriendly posts I've seen.
�
Feb 1, 2016
bhzmark Ap does what it does. It's not perfect but it will get better. Abs and seat belts and rear view mirrors etc. aren't perfect either but we make use these tools within their limits. Ap is still beta and it's getting better. I would never go back to a car without ap.
I share the frustration that seemingly obvious errors (too close on the right side, not distinguishing lanes from shoulders) ought to be programmed out. And I suspect they will very soon. But meanwhile it is so much better to have the help with (but not full delegation of) most micro adjustments while driving on highways and other appropriate roads.�
Feb 1, 2016
Yitt I just took my first long road trip in my 70D. Before that, I'd experimented with AP but not used it for an extended trip. Thus, I don't know if my observation is specific to 7.1 vs. 7.0.
But dang, that thing sure wanted to get up close and personal with trucks as I passed them. Maybe it's because I normally give a wide berth when passing, but it FELT like the car was magnetically attracted to trucks one lane over to the right. I took control a few times. Many other times, I let it go and it was fine (though uncomfortably close). I would much rather if AP gave extra space when passing in the left lane.
Even with that and a reminder to hold the wheel every three minutes, AP performed well overall and made the trip a lot more pleasant. I did not mind keeping a hand on the wheel almost all the time, and occasionally giving it a little "tug" to reassure the car I was still there. I guess I basically used it as intended, including lots of lane changes, and it was fine except for cutting it a little close on the right side.�
Feb 1, 2016
dhanson865 I've seen a huge change in your posts since this thread started on Jan 13. It's only been three weeks but your posts have become more logical and more willing to consider the other side of the conversation.
On the other hand I've seen others that are still stuck giving you the same response they gave you weeks ago when it was pile up on elctricfan day.
I really don't see any reason to be stuck in the past. You've provided new insights and video evidence and we should just go forward with this new input...�
Feb 1, 2016
ankitmishra @ElectricFan
What is that bump sound at 0:05? Car swerved immediately after that sound.�
Feb 1, 2016
sorka You can hear the two done beep again in this one as well(right before second 11 clicks over). Same as the previous. So you were on AP and it started veering over the yellow line?
Is the glass in front of the cameras nice and clean???�
Feb 1, 2016
Andyw2100 I could be mistaken, but I think that sounds like the sound my car makes when switching to (and possibly from?) regenerative braking. The speed isn't changing much on the dashcam display, but there is generally some lag with that anyway.�
Feb 1, 2016
scottf200 "more logical" -- you state that while quoting him where he clearly still believes reading was "appropriate use of AP" since he states "allegedly inappropriate use of AP". I'm looking forward to using AP but following Tesla VERY clear instructions on how to use it. Hands on wheel and you are responsible for the vehicles driving. Every odd scenario needs to be reported but none from looking at the logs timestamps based on an ambulance report documented time for the non-Tesla driver and their family/friends ... if you know what I mean.�
Feb 1, 2016
ankitmishra I think it is the sound of car going over some minor imperfection in the road. The car goes over two strips of imperfections beginning at 0:14. At 0:05 imperfection, car was recovering from a curve. Do minor speed brakers/bumps cause problem with AP? This is my observation of the video. I cant find any other event.
Also, what is that black space on the other side of road? The one with incoming traffic. It is also at same location as the anomaly.�
Feb 1, 2016
Hpnewport I have glitches every single day in my car from calendar not working, radio stuck on certain channels to screen blanking out randomly, f'ing navigation system taking 30-60 seconds to tell me where the heck I am, map half full of grid, no streets, I can go on and on. For anyone to think or say like the Tesla service apparently did here, that autopilot is 'flawless' is complete bs. It is not a good system-yet. Don't trust it, but you can use it as long as you keep hands on wheel and foot ready to brake. Funny that other scenarios seem to tell a story that the car will absolutely brake to the point of skid to avoid a collision...my opinion after reading this is that the autopilot probably failed to do its "intended" job which is to monitor everything around it and react for you. But, it is still in beta and can't be trusted.
I've been in HOV lane going along just fine in AP and when there is an 'exit' from the HOV and no more stripe on the right side, the car jerks violently to the right even thought the left stripe continues just as it had been...huge problem...don't trust it.�
Feb 1, 2016
Electricfan I can't answer questions about the shoulder incident because I left the video file at work.
About the truck incident - I noted something new this evening when I was creating a video clip to send to Tesla (I heard back from service, and somebody in CA was copied and they wanted details on the problems so I sent them the video - not the youtube crappy version but the actual dashcam footage which is much better - and if anybody wants it and knows a way I can send it to you or place I can upload it for you please pm me). By the way, this is a great little video cutter that will let you take a few minutes out of a longer video file, and its totally free: Free Video Cutter - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com
What I noticed tonight solves the puzzle, I believe. Below is a picture of two skid marks that are in the middle of my lane, and appear right before my car dives toward the truck. I think AP "calculated" that the lane was suddenly ten feet to the right based on these skid marks, and that's why it abruptly dove to the right. We'll see if Tesla agrees. I'll post back if they share something with me about it.
Here's the pic of the skid marks that I think caused my near-miss with the truck.
�
Feb 1, 2016
jeffro01 I call BS. I don't know what your car seems to be doing or what you might be doing as the operator but I drive mine daily and my calendar works, radio is never stuck, screens never blank out randomly and my navigation system calculates all routes I've given it to date within seconds and always knows where my car is with a full map and streets, etc...
The car doesn't jerk violently in any direction, that's absurd. You are free to not trust whatever it is you aren't trusting but while AP isn't perfect and there are things it really needs to improve upon such as taking sharp\sharp'ish freeway curves (101 north through San Rafael comes to mind), I find it to be quite good at what it does. Naturally I don't ask it to do things I know it's not capable of doing so that may skew my results some...
Jeff
One more thing to note as it pertains to exits while on the freeway. In 7.0 the car would drift towards the "open" side of the lane, IE were the white line breaks for the exit, but I never had an issue with it trying to take the exit. In 7.1 I have noticed it's much stabler in that scenario and continues on straight.�
Feb 1, 2016
Beryl What level of of 7.1 is installed? I had display and radio problems until the SC updated me fro 2.9.154 to 2.10.56.�
Feb 2, 2016
Boston First, I would like to thank the OP for sharing his experience and provoking a useful discussion.
Second, I would like to add my support for Woof's theory. I am also an engineer and I also currently own a Mobileye (same as used in Tesla) based ACC in my BMW i3. I had a nearly identical situation to the OP and had to stand on the brakes to avoid rear ending the stopped car in front of me. Bottom line. The ACC was tracking the car that passed the slowing car and did not switch to the one right in front of me until it was too late. This is a very repeatable failure mode that I am now very sensitive too. OPs memory is not shot. Tesla's engineers are reporting the truth. The TACC was simply tracking the wrong car till it was too late. The bug is very reproducible on my BMW when the highway makes even the slightest bend (right bend if the car leaving my lane to pass goes to the left or vice a versa).�
Feb 2, 2016
dhanson865 Have you seen the quotes / videos where Elon admits he drives in AP with hands off the wheel on a regular basis? What do you think about Elon doing it? Are you going to start bad mouthing Elon every time you see a post about him?�
Feb 2, 2016
Electricfan Sorry but I have the original file and after listening over and over I just don't know. I can't see a bump in the road. I don't remember the noise. I have no idea. Just guessing, it sounds like the car hit something small in the road.
- - - Updated - - -
No, I haven't noticed bumps causing a problem with AP. My car drives this road every single day, M-F. At the same time. Why it drove on the shoulder this time is very strange.
The black space is a place where the concrete barrier is replaced with metal barrels, for unknown reasons. There are several occurrences of this in beltway 8 around this location.�
Feb 2, 2016
Andyw2100 If you have a few minutes, try listening to some video from your car from other times when it has TACC engaged. I really think that is just the sound of the car changing from power to regenerative braking. With TACC on that happens pretty regularly, so it shouldn't be too hard for you to find a couple of other incidents of that, and see if the sound is the same. I could be mistaken, but that's what it sounded like to me.�
Feb 3, 2016
Navyguy
Lol these elitists. "AUTOPILOT IS THE BEST..." Car crashes -"DUMBASS DRIVER - YOUR FAULT... AUTOPILOT ITS THE BEST"
His fault for setting the distance trusting it too long, tesla's fault for miss representing its effectiveness. The car is still supposed to emergency brake in ANY situation, however in this it didn't. BOTH are at fault, the "AUTOPILOT"<<<<< malfunctioned. "Assistance" or not.�
Feb 3, 2016
Max* Actually the car did emergency brake, Tesla pulled the logs.
Pot calling the kettle black? Just saying....�
Feb 3, 2016
Navyguy Weird, it almost looks like the color of the car was too close to that of the lines and it did the same thing along the "lines" no pun intended of when it first got released and it wanted to veer off of exit lanes because the line followed the exit ramp/
- - - Updated - - -
How is that calling it black? One I never said its the sweetest thing in the world. 2 I have yet to make the purchase lol. still seeing how things are doing, and so far I am getting less and less impressed�
Feb 10, 2016
WannabeOwner I have a question:
From your initial post the guy in the car in front didn't jump out and say "The idiot in front of me stopped suddenly" or "XXX fell off the vehicle in front of me and I had to stop suddenly", there doesn't appear to be any indication that he stopped suddenly and that isn't your recollection either, although I agree that adrenalin-rush or eyewitness-unreliability might be a factor in your recollection.
So my question is: assuming he was braking reasonably hard, not himself using AEB, not in some heavily modifed car with very fancy brakes, shouldn't a Tesla's AEB be able to outbreak him? TACC reaction time should be a few milliseconds I think?, you were 1 second behind him, why didn't AEB stop you in time?
And why did you need to augment the AEB with manual braking at all? Tesla say you braked one second after the alarm went off, surely AEB should have done its job enough by then?
My assumption is that a Tesla, being well equipped, will out-brake a "regular" car, or is that not true?
If the TACC was tracking the wrong vehicle, which had by then pulled over to the other lane, then this would surely be something that needs fixing (and calls your liability into question) and has nothing to do with Tesla's assertion
I'm probably overlooking something very obvious
I'm not sure I would want to own a Tesla without a dashboard camera to adjudicate if it was me, the "Other Guy", or Tesla that caused the problem.�
Feb 10, 2016
McRat Based on independent testing, a Model S stops towards the high end of sedans. It has about the same as braking power as a Camry or any other standard sedan. A BMW base 3 series will stop sooner.
Do not tailgate a modern sportscar. They stop a lot faster than a Model S can. Certainly enough to defeat a close setting on an auto braking system. About 40 feet difference at 70mph. Even something like a Camaro coupe will stop 30' shorter.�
Feb 10, 2016
Navyguy I agree, the automated braking should have stopped you sooner than you could have, it would have reacted faster than you could have and applied optimal braking pressure. HOWEVER I think what happened was it was tracking the car in front, it changed lanes and the car in front of him stopped sooner than the tesla was able to aquire a "lock" on the next in line car in front? OR just a complete sensor / TACC /braking failure. in that case Tesla's fault for faulty software/hardware BUT accident wise your faulty for following too closely, or waiting for it to react etc. (or simply unavoidable accident however, that stems to following too closely unfortunately you could always follow further away no matter how close or far you already are.)
If it did take too long to acquire a lock on the next vehicle that is a serious flaw, think of what happens if the guy breaks fast, the guy behind him swerves away and your left with no reaction time. it needs to detect a fast oncoming obstacle and apply the brakes accordingly regardless of if it thinks its a car or not. after all, any object not moving in front of you the sensor sees as a "wall" so to speak.
- - - Updated - - -
So an emergency braking, cant be saved by an AUTOMATED EMERGENCY Braking lol. I mean come on, that is such BS, that is the whole purpose of that, adaptive cruise control maintains and changes speed, AEB is supposed to be used when a human cannot or with proper speed react. now does that change the distance in which a car can physically stop no, hence the set follow distance. however it will minimize the impact by as much as computationally possible in the given amount of time etc.�
Feb 10, 2016
green1 Remember that AEB does not stop the car? it only reduces the speed and then releases. It is not designed to avoid collisions, that is not it's purpose. It's job is to reduce the impact of an already unavoidable collision. If you rely on it, and it is working properly, there is a very high chance you will hit the other vehicle.�
Feb 10, 2016
McRat Yes, it is to prevent serious injury from inattentive driving. Normally a human looks at more than just the car right in front of them. AEB cannot. When I see brakes 5 cars up, I increase my distance and tap my brake rapidly 3 times. This is to avoid getting cornholed. Then I get ready to "split lanes" in case there is a collision as the cars in front are braking. If one person is texting, there will be an impact, and impacts produce very short stopping distances.�
Feb 10, 2016
Navyguy
WOw really? well I may have found 3 of 3 deal breakers, lol since there are alot of even lower end cars that ave automatic emergency braking. I think even a honda does, for a car to have autopilot yet not stop from an emergency then that's a deal breaker.�
Feb 10, 2016
green1 Many vehicles have AEB, but read the fine print to see if any of them are any different. It's clearly in the manual for the Model S, I wouldn't be surprised if other cars are the same.�
Feb 10, 2016
gregincal Yes, Honda does have such a system, and it works exactly the same as Tesla's. The key with such systems is that they kick in when a collision is "unavoidable" which by definition means that it will not be able to prevent the collision. Here is from my Honda CR-V owners manual:
Collision Mitigation Braking System
Can alert you when a potential frontal collision with a vehicle or pedestrian is determined and reduce your vehicle speed when a collision is deemed unavoidable to help minimize collision severity.�
Feb 10, 2016
Navyguy
Well AEB is a false representation of it, if it causes it CMB as above, AEB was mentioned as Automatic emergency braking, and btw the honda one they showed it with working going x speed into a semi that was parked, and showed it slamming on the brakes, I will try to find the video (not the malfunctioning prototype one tho ahah)�
Feb 10, 2016
green1 How is it misleading? They say it automatically brakes in an emergency, that's exactly what it does, nowhere is it called collision avoidance, or automatic STOPPING.
Sure, many companies have shown videos of how a system might someday work, but if the manual says that it doesn't stop the car, I'll trust that over a video of what they might do someday.�
Feb 10, 2016
Navyguy
2015 Hyundai Genesis - Automatic Emergency Braking test - YouTube
Volvo Trucks - Emergency braking at its best! - YouTube
Could keep posting, but what I am saying is they advertise all this safety crap as a marketing sell. then small text disclaimer it in the manual which you wont see until after you bought the car. they call it one thing aloud, AEB, then write is as CAB (computer assisted braking etc) Just saying.
He didn't say how fast he was going BUT he did say it slowed down, after a certain speed like 50 mph I think it only mitigates the crash. under 40 I believe it is supposed to stop fully. at least the ones I saw in those videos do. But full highway speed at 70 into a stopped vehicle perhaps wouldn't have stopped. but it should have at least applied full brakes. You know, since that is how it is sold and advertised. otherwise it's simply false advertising. and almost as bad as saying cigarettes are safe, like tobacco companies used to say until the mid 90's when they finally got sued.�
Feb 10, 2016
AWDtsla Maybe read the manual.�
Feb 10, 2016
msnow As you are not an owner, perhaps your feedback would be far more appreciated in the Honda forum than your trolling in this one.�
Feb 10, 2016
Navyguy Maybe don't false advertise�
Feb 10, 2016
green1 The videos are marketting, not real. The Tesla one never advertises that AEB will stop the car, regardless of speed, in fact it specifically states that it will not, and that it will release all braking once it drops below a certain speed.
As for the competitors, I admit some of them advertise that it will stop the car, but I don't know if the actual warnings state the same or not. If anything this is a case of Tesla being more honest than the competition.�
Feb 10, 2016
Navyguy
I was going to buy one, but after all the crap I have been waiting it out, first seat belt issue, then the super charger causing one to explode, then this. and even the other faulty issues, it's like the first gen Iphones, any first adopter gets screwed over on their learning curve, I have been waiting for just these things to pop up.
Of course I still follow it and still want to get one, but for now, I am waiting all the bugs, unlike some I don't just rush into things, as well as reading manuals, like these people clearly didn't do as they put too much trust into the system. I am merely saying they shouldn't advertise a feature that does not do what they say it does, weather or not it is legalese in a manual. thats bait and switch. say one thing but it is another.�
Feb 10, 2016
MsElectric If I understand correctly the key is when you hear the AEB beeps that you actually press the brake pedal.
This instructs the car that you indeed want to stop and it applies maximum emergency braking.
- - - Updated - - -
Except Tesla never claimed their driving aids will prevent accidents in cases where the driver is negligent in driving the car safely.�
Feb 10, 2016
Navyguy
Then do not call anything automatic, automatic wipers operate with out any user interaction ASSISTED xx only is an assistance, do not name something AUTOMATIC (EMERGENCY) Braking lol.�
Feb 10, 2016
bareyb I saw a video on TV the other day and apparently what happened there is that the driver touched the wheel and turned off the AP and thus hit the curb. Driver error. The funny thing is the driver didn't even realize he'd touched the wheel. Only on instant replay of the video did he realize what he'd done. I'm guessing that's the case in this scenario too.�
Feb 10, 2016
JimmyAZ Not sure if you still feel this way, but I think this is by far the most intelligent car I've ever driven. After a 2015 M3, 2 X-5's, Porsche, Aston Martin, and lots of regular cars, this one is simply amazing. If AEB is a deal-killer for you, perhaps this isn't the right car for you. I didn't see what the other 2 dealbreakers were for you. But I can kind of understand. We all waited SO LONG for the AP software update for hands free driving. It was later than promised, and blah blah blah. But as soon as we had our hands on it we were all happy kids again playing with our new toy.
If you truly love the car you'll love owning one. But if you want a car that automatically stops for you (outside of AP) then no, this isn't the car for you. It'll alert you and show every car on the road on the display so you know what's in front of you. But you still have to preserve your own life. Don't think that we're able to just trust everything to any car just yet. We'll hopefully get there. But in a world full of crappy drivers - the only time we'll truly be safe is when EVERY car is autonomous.
I hope you change your mind about the car. But either way, just know that those deal breakers aren't as big a deal as you're making them out to be.�
Feb 10, 2016
green1 Maybe we shouldn't call these things AUTOmobiles either then, we'll call them ASSISTEDmobiles instead...
Give me a break! Automatic, has never, in the history of mankind, been the same word as Autonomous, they imply completely different things.
Even using your definition of automatic though (which is completely out to lunch) it still isn't misleading though, because it does in fact apply the brakes automatically, which is all it claims to do, it isn't Autonomous Emergency Stopping, it's Automatic Emergency Braking, which is EXACTLY what it does, there's no possible better explanation of the system.�
Feb 10, 2016
JimmyAZ I agree with green1. Stop with the semantics! It brakes automatically to reduce the severity of the impact. Autopilot in a plane flies the plane, but it is in NO way a replacement for a pilot. This type of whining, especially from someone who doesn't even think he'll own the car, is just boring to me.�
Feb 11, 2016
docherf AEB isn't a tesla product. It's made by 3rd parties like TRW. It's becoming standard. NHTSA & IHSS recommend it and 10 major manufacturers agreed to make it standard on every auto. The last several cars we've bought have it.
Not sure why anyone would not want it. It'll be hard to buy a car soon that doesn't have it (like airbags, abs, etc).
Even if you don't have, you'll be glad if the person that rear-ends you has it. Getting hit at 10 mph as opposed to 40 mph is significantly better for your spine!�
Feb 11, 2016
mobe 
�
Feb 12, 2016
dhanson865 * seat belt issue, what one person noticed a bolt loose that caused no injury or death? Compared to other car manufacturers with actual issues that cause injury and death.
* supercharger causing a car to explode? Are you on crack? Never happened, never will.
There was a car that got hit by lightning in the US while at a supercharger but it didn't explode. Tesla repaired the electrical damage.
There was a car in Norway that caught on fire but it didn't explode and it wasn't related to supercharging.
There was a car in Mexico that caught on fire but it didn't explode and it wasn't related to supercharging.
I could go on and on detailing Teslas that got damaged somehow but I can't give you an example of one exploding.
Would you care to inform yourself about what really happens in the world or do you just want to run around saying Tesla's explode because you like the way that sounds?�
Feb 12, 2016
msnow You're feeding the troll.�
Feb 21, 2016
davidc18 If/When you get one, your only regret will be that you didn't get it sooner.�
Feb 21, 2016
John Stuckey I have not had good luck on curves with cruise control; almost ran into the back of someone before I hit the brakes hard - 35mph. Curvy roads are not my friend, cruise control or AP. AP does not like 90 degree turns at 25mph. It makes them but uses both lanes to do it. I hope I'm more wary now and less apt to "test" the limits. I use 7 for a following distance because I live in a less congested part of the country.
- - - Updated - - -
sandstruck: Thank you. I appreciate you contributing to my education and my family's safety by prompting this discussion.�
Feb 21, 2016
calisnow Navyguy can't afford a Tesla - anyone who has seen his prior threads knows this - in fact I think he didn't even get approved for financing. No insult to him but he has a low net worth and a low income - these "deal breakers" are sour grapes.�
Feb 21, 2016
mkjayakumar 90 degree turns on a highway you are attempting on AP? Are you and Navyguy the same person using two different IDs?�
Feb 21, 2016
bswn1 That's really unfair to call him out this way, even if he is a troll.�
Feb 21, 2016
satoshi Snob of the year award worthy comment right here...�
Feb 21, 2016
jbcarioca Just to clarify, TACC step calibration is in seconds rather than car lengths. thus a setting of 2 means the Tesla will occupy the same space of the vehicle ahead right now, two minutes in the future. That setting of 2 yields a pretty decent interval, probably quite close to the classic driver training recommendation of one car length per ten mph of speed.�
Feb 21, 2016
calisnow Not trying to be a snob - I went through many years of low income and low net worth myself. We've all been there.
But with this poster there were long discussions where people tried to tell this guy he was in no position to buy one, that he was shooting himself in the foot financially, etc. etc. He wouldn't listen to reason. Then he didn't financed anyway and publicly told everyone so. Now he's back claiming there are multiple "deal breakers" with the car itself preventing him from buying one.�
Feb 21, 2016
msnow Yeah but the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them.�
Feb 21, 2016
Andyw2100 This isn't true. Ignoring the simple mistake of replacing "seconds" with "minutes" in the second part of the above, the documentation for TACC explains that the settings are relative, but don't represent any particular unit. I'd have to dig up where I've read that, but I've read it a number of times. I'll check the manual and see if I can find it there.
Edit: This is what the manual says--
--
Adjust your following distance
To adjust the distance you want to maintain between Model S and a vehicle traveling ahead of you, rotate the cruise control lever to choose a setting from 1 (the closest following distance) to 7 (the longest following distance).Each setting corresponds to a time-based distance that represents how long it takes for Model S, from its current location, to reach the location of the rear bumper of the vehicle ahead.
--�
Feb 21, 2016
calisnow Very good point lol�
Feb 21, 2016
mkjayakumar Any time someone refers to the fire boogeyman, they lose my respect. And especially so when they have 'explosion' in the same sentence.�
Mar 8, 2016
Todd Burch I was skeptical about this thread, so I've been looking for evidence of odd TACC-related behavior. I hadn't seen anything odd. Until today. (Note: I've been driving the S since Dec. 2012, and I have over 70,000 miles driving the Model S. I have probably logged an average of about 20 miles a day on autopilot since it came out. So this isn't just a misinterpretation of something).
I was in the center lane of a three lane urban/suburban road with no traffic directly ahead of me and Autopilot on. About a quarter mile ahead, traffic was stopped at a red light. Since TACC brakes a little harder and later than I'd like, I disengaged it and started regenning. When I got to the point that the stationary car ahead of me (waiting at the light) was about 100' ahead, I reengaged autopilot (at this point I was probably going about 25mph). On the dash display, the stopped car appeared "fading in" from a distance in front of me in my lane, as expected.
My car gently slowed and stopped with appropriate spacing behind the car in front--so all good here. But I noticed after sitting still for a few seconds, that the brakes very slightly released and the car inched forward (I had no feet on any pedals at the time--autopilot still engaged). After stopping for a few more seconds, the car inched forward a bit more.
Throughout this time, the car was depicted on the dash in front of me.
Finally, after a few more seconds, the brakes released and I started accelerating toward the car in front! The acceleration was slow--exactly like you would get with TACC engaged and stopped traffic starting to move in front of you again. So if you're paying attention, you can stop the car without a collision risk. But if you've closed your eyes or are not paying attention, I can see how you might run into the car in front of you at about 10mph.
Again--throughout this time, the car in front of me was depicted on the dash display. It seems like the radar got a little confused. The car in front had been stationary, and TACC seemed to get a lock on it, but that lock didn't seem to hold.
So, word of advice: don't space out completely when sitting behind stopped traffic with TACC engaged...particularly if the car in front of you has been completely stopped since TACC first acquired it.�
Mar 8, 2016
drsaab In the latest autopilot I have seen my car go from a full stop waiting behind a car at a traffic light to accelerate towards the car still stopped in front. And the car in front always in the display.
My car did stop again about 13" inches behind the car in front.
It was not just a creep forward but was actual acceleration.
Also when it did stop it ended up in hold status (not The new brake hold feature) and I had to manually accelerate when the light turned green vs normally it stays on autopilot and will continue the journey when the light turns green.
Quite strange.�
Mar 8, 2016
Todd Burch Drsaab,
Your experience sounds similar to mine. I did not let the car get close enough to see if it would have stopped again--it's certainly possible.�
Mar 8, 2016
JimmyAZ This has happened to me as well! It's usually a much slower creeping movement. I don't notice any acceleration, so I just assume that it's getting to a closer distance that it feels is acceptable. But it keeps getting closer and closer and closer. When you're within parking sensor range, I feel like this is unacceptably close and I dissing gauge autopilot. I have no idea what's happening, but if I disengage autopilot and reengage it in the same location, it seems to be fine again. I hope they figure out what the issue is!�
Mar 9, 2016
orlenok Same happened to me a couple of times. I don't see how this could result in a collision though. I never disengaged (although was ready to do so every time) and the car came to a stop by itself in "hold mode".�
Mar 9, 2016
zambono seems like a bug or at the very least not acceptable behavior that should be reported to tesla via their official means�
Mar 9, 2016
Andyw2100 Yes, definitely!
I expect Todd has already submitted a write-up similar to what he posted above to [email�protected]. Anyone else seeing odd behavior like this should definitely report it. That's how important, potentially dangerous problems in the software get fixed.�
Mar 9, 2016
Whitmarsh Could Creep have anything to do with this?�
Mar 9, 2016
Todd Burch No. Creep is disengaged on my car.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét