Mar 30, 2013
Shakespear Picked up my beautiful white P85 today in Boston - absolutely has the Alcantra headliner, sun visors, and seat inserts. Looks awesome. I asked and was told that it is standard for P85 's so I'd talk to Tesla about yours. Must have been a mistake.
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There is no mistake an internal memo that was passed onto me, was that performance models will be receiving cloth headliner. I am totally bummed about this change and still considering if I will opt out on this production until I will be provided with the items and terms that was offered. I was told by Tesla at their florida Dania showroom.�
Mar 31, 2013
TokyoRush I have to admit that would frustrate me too. Can you post the internal memo? I'd send to George and ask him to explain the decision. The delivery people up in Boston (Watertown) hadn't heard of any change and the 3 other P85's there were all with Alcantra.�
Mar 31, 2013
yobigd20 This isn't like the 21" wheels no longer being "free" (which at least was announced properly). This also isn't like the "3G connectivity" which all of us were CLEARLY communicated to us by Tesla that eventually we will all need to pay for it.
I love Tesla, but this one is a MAJOR issue. This is deceptive behavior. This is something all of us knew about (especially due to the official BB post mentioned above "Nappa Leather Interior package, plus an Alcantara headliner ($1,900 on a Porsche Panamera)"). It was in all the P85s; it was officially mentioned. It might not have shown up officially spelled out on the description or specs page, but does every technical detail need to be? No. Like they even mentioned, this is not a *cheap* feature. It costs $1900 on the Porsche. We all expected it. We all paid for it.
Technically, this could be considered fraud. "Fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual....fraud is a crime and a civil law violation". This IS clearly an intentional deception made for personal gain. I think any lawyer would agree with this. (unless they reduce the price of the P85 by ~$1900 and refund all new already-paid-for P85's delivered with the cloth, then there is no personal gain and thus no case). Again, I love Tesla, but I really think there is enough data to warrant a fraud lawsuit about the Alcantara headliner. I feel bad for the one who would be THAT GUY because I love Tesla and want them to succeed. I want them to do what is right. And this deceptive change is not right. I think it's possible someone might do it in this case because it's such a major item.
IMO If this really is a permanent change, they need to make a statement about this like they did with the wheels change and rear child seat change and offer those were were deceived some options (retrofit or partial refund). Else they are just risking a lawsuit...something they don't need right now.
Related, they also need to eventually release wifi support and hard drive storage for music like those were also promised...�
Mar 31, 2013
dsm363 I agree they need to address this and fix it for the people who thought they were getting the correct headliner but where does it say Alcantra headliner and not just Alcantra accents? They should clearly state Alcantra headliner as part of the performance package or if they need to make it an added cost option on top of the performance package, do it from now onward for people who haven't finalized.�
Mar 31, 2013
TokyoRush Exactly, like the 21" wheels, if they announce it going forward it is one thing but just randomly changing it is a bait and switch. I have to admit that it never would have concerned me until this thread but one of the first things I looked at when I picked up the car yesterday was the liner. Happy to see the Alcantra.
Actually I may be among the first people to have NO due items! My HPWC arrived earlier this week and I didn't order a parcel shelf.�
Mar 31, 2013
cdabel This is a very cheesey move. They need to address this properly. I doubt they want to devote the resources to defending a few score small claims law suits.�
Mar 31, 2013
contaygious It doesn't say alcantara headliner anywhere, but I could swear it looks alcantara in the design studio. Although they might have some tiny text that says it's a computer image that doesn't exactly replicate the textures/colors. I'd be curious to hear an explanation such as the supplier increased prices or something outside their control.�
Mar 31, 2013
carrerascott Just as an aside I'm in a BMW 7 series and it has leather seats but cloth headliner and all pillars in cloth.�
Mar 31, 2013
Panacea And I currently drive an Audi A8L with the Alcantara headliner...With all due respect, what does this have to do with price of tea in China, as the saying goes?
As I see it, Tesla set the bar high when they communicated the price increase in advance as well as change to the jump seat options. They grandfathered in the folks who puts their deposits down before the end of 2012. WRT the jump seats, again the communicated in advance and gave folks time to act accordingly. Not so with the alcantara switcheroo. When we decide to purchase the MS, we do so never seeing the car actual car we will own....unlike a traditional ICE purchase. We don't test drive a car in the lot and go home with it. We rely on cars in the showroom as well as the car that we test drive. It was never conveyed to me that the P85 will no longer come with the alcantara headliner BEFORE I finalized my order. I am an investor in TMC and I suspect that this move will, in the long run cut operating costs for the company...and I don't have a beef with that. The huge misstep, IMHO is that TM did not communicate this change and allow for orders that were already finalized to include the suede headliner. They could have said something like orders finalized AFTER April 15 for example ,will have the cloth interior. As it stands, the move penalizes ALL the red reservation holders (myself included), who have been patiently waiting for their cars. I went to my local dealership this weekend and some of salespeople there were unaware of the change. Tesla has behaved with integrity in the past but failed to do so this time. They can do better than this.�
Mar 31, 2013
Shakespear I not sure, BUT if we are ever to receive a sunshade for the sunroof. What will it be made of.? Alcantara or cloth. ?�
Mar 31, 2013
strider I recall them saying the P85 would be "replete with Alcantara". The definition of "replete" is: abundantly supplied or provided; filled; complete. Making the headliner cloth means the only alcantara you'll have are the seat bolsters right? That is FAR from replete. Frankly I'm reading this thread and I'm dumbfounded how anyone could possibly be clueless enough to make this kind of decision in the first place. Then after being stupid enough to make this decision you go on to not inform their customers? Did they not think anyone would notice? I can forgive all the stuff related to the ramp-up and growing the company but this is a deliberate screwing of people. I'll be interested to hear the reasoning behind this but on the surface it looks like they're trying to save $1,000/car and if so that means they are closer to the edge of survivability than I'd like.
Otherwise, if it's a supplier problem, tell the P85's who are coming up there will be a delay if they want alcantara or that they can have their car now with cloth. People may whine that their car will be delayed but if you give them the choice then they'll feel like they have some control.
�
Mar 31, 2013
Corinna I picked up my blue P85 on Friday in San Diego and mine has the cloth headliner too. I was very disappointed and am eager to hear Tesla's response to you. I would want it replaced with alcantara as well. The upholstering of the headliner in the rear seat is also misaligned in my car where it meets the pano roof. I am taking the car back to the service cnter tomorrow to try and get that fixed. I love driving my car and all its tech features but the quality of the upholstery has been disppoining. The floor mats are appallingly cheap as well - so glad I knew about those in advance and ordered Lloyd's mats to replace them.�
Apr 1, 2013
montgom626 This is a huge post. Any written documentation stating Alcantara? Where can I find it?�
Apr 1, 2013
AnOutsider Probably cloth. I've never seen a sunshade of alcantara, and can't really see how it would make sense.�
Apr 1, 2013
dsm363 If they used the word replete then I agree. I didn't remember they saying that. Hopefully it was just a glitch and they can fix those affected or make it more clear for future buyers.�
Apr 1, 2013
montgom626 Like my father always said, "If it is not in writing, it does not exist."�
Apr 1, 2013
bluetinc Here is what was posted by Tesla on Their site:
**************
WHY ISN'T THERE A CREDIT FOR 19" WHEELS IN THE PERFORMANCE PACKAGE?
[email�protected].. | NOVEMBER 24, 2012
The Performance Package was priced assuming a 19" wheel. Here is how we arrived at Performance pricing:
Base 85 kWh Model S $77,400
Performance Drive Unit $10,000
Upgraded Interior and Treatments $3,500
Active Air Suspension $1,500
Total $92,400
The $10,000 Performance Drive unit includes upgraded drive components, hardware and software.
The $3,500 Upgraded Interior includes all items in the $1,500 Nappa Leather Interior package, plus an Alcantara headliner ($1,900 on a Porsche Panamera), additional leather treatments and Alcantara seat bolsters ($600), Carbon Fiber d�cor option ($500 on Audi S7), and contrast color piping on seats ($200). This package rolls up to between $4,200 and $4,700 (depending upon if you choose the Carbon Fiber D�cor on not), but was included in the Performance Package at $3,500.
The $92,400 price assumed a 19" wheel. However, we wanted our very early reservation holders to have the option to choose their favorite wheel as part of the Performance Package at no additional cost.
***************
�
Apr 1, 2013
cdabel If they can do this, what features are safe? I'm ordering multi red with black perf interior. Could they suddenly decide to deliver it with blue piping? I don't think they've promised in writing that the piping is red, but they have certainly created an expectation through pictures and prior deliveries. Same with the headliner. Do the demo cars have Alcantara?�
Apr 1, 2013
dsm363 They need to fix it for the people affected then. If they need to change it then it should be from an announcement they make and into the future.�
Apr 1, 2013
EMDoc Exactly. I'm sure they can legally get out of it based on their disclaimers, etc. However, that would not be the right thing to do for them to do. I'll hopefully hear an update sometime this week.
Thanks all.
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks for the info. I think someone else posted this as well. Great find and it helps support my/our cause.�
Apr 1, 2013
nkohlimd Just received the following email from Tesla. Great customer service!
I am happy to report that, going forward, all performance Model S will have a cost option for the Alcantara headliner. Since you already configured your car, you will be receiving the Alcantara headliner at no additional cost.
For those that received a Model S with a textile headliner, we will be offering the option of a 500 dollar discount or a no cost replacement of your current headliner with the Alcantara varient�
Apr 1, 2013
dsm363 Excellent! Another instance of them doing the right thing which they seem to do more often than not.�
Apr 1, 2013
EMDoc UPDATE!
Got an email from Tesla. Offer 500 back or will retrofit to alcantara. Trying to decide if the retrofit can be done in San Diego as the service center there said they could not handle it.
That is more of what I expect from Tesla. Feeling better now.�
Apr 1, 2013
stevezzzz I'm happy for all of you who ordered a P85 and got the fabric headliner as a post-delivery shocker. We'll never know for sure, but I don't doubt that this thread (and TMC in general) gets some of the credit for prompting this latest announcement.�
Apr 1, 2013
EMDoc Agree!�
Apr 1, 2013
AnOutsider Perfect. I think this was the right way to handle this. It shouldn't have happened in the first place to need a sort of retcon, but at least it is being handled.
FWIW, I'd take the Alcantara vs $500.�
Apr 1, 2013
EMDoc I agree as well...just that since the car will be taken apart anyway I'd rather try to see if I can get black alcantara. Especially if a private shop has to come out and do the retrofit in San Diego.�
Apr 1, 2013
Cheerose Wonder when this will be reflected on the pricing going forward...�
Apr 1, 2013
ckessel Hurrah! To be honest, this was what I expected to happen and I'm happy Tesla met that expectation. A little disappointed Tesla got themselves into this situation, but sometimes what's obvious to the outside viewer hits a blind spot for those on the inside.�
Apr 1, 2013
EMDoc Thank you all for the help!�
Apr 1, 2013
gobagheera Thanks for the update. I have personally not heard back, so it is nice to know what to expect. It's a no brainer that I will take the alcantara over the $500. It does make it a hassle for me since the nearest service center is 250 miles away and who knows how long it will take.�
Apr 1, 2013
BlkCld Thanks EMdoc for bringing it to everyone's attention!
I am glad you got a response. I haven't heard back yet but it sure sounds like problem resolved.
Thanks TeslaMotorsClub for being here to get the word out and fix the problem.
If you haven't donated to the TMC yet this is a good reason to help support TMC.
I wouldn't have known until delivery and gotten surprised in a bad way.
Thanks again to everyone that spoke up to help get this resolved.
Now I just need to wait for red.�
Apr 1, 2013
strider Yeah, just put "replete with Alcantara" into Google.
Glad they're fixing it for you all but I still have to wonder WTF they were thinking. This is now going to cost them WAY more to retrofit than they're going to save. I love Tesla but talk about making an unforced error....�
Apr 1, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla Tesla may be hoping now that more folks would ask for $500 back than opt for the Alcantara install after-the-fact given the obvious inconvenience involved.
Very sloppy overall at the end of the day on Tesla's part. How could they have ever thought that they could slip this under the radar given TMC's existence?! :tongue:�
Apr 1, 2013
BlkCld Here is the explanation I just received.
Thank you for contacting Tesla.
The Alcantara headliner will still be a part of Model S. Originally the headliner was removed to address customer requests for a more stain resistant material.
However, all Performance Model S will have the option for the Alcantara headliner. If your vehicle is not delivered with the Alcantara headliner, you will have to option to receive either a $500 credit or choose to have the Alcantara headliner installed. Currently, the Alcanatara is not in production so there is possibility of receiving your Model S with the textile headliner. If this is the case, our service center will replace the headliner with the Alcantara at no added cost.�
Apr 1, 2013
jigish Interesting. I have a service appointment on Wednesday @ Fremont for some other minor stuff. I called to ask if I can get this done and the guy on the phone said he hadn't heard about it. Said he'd look into it and let me know on Wednesday though. If I get any answers I'll update Wednesday.�
Apr 1, 2013
yobigd20 lol I love blatant lies that nobody can prove wrong�
Apr 1, 2013
bonnie Umm, we HAVE had threads about needing a headliner of a diff material for allergy reasons. I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that this was a blatant lie.�
Apr 1, 2013
Krugerrand What about the material on the B-pillar that was seeing so much wear?�
Apr 1, 2013
EarlyAdopter We've had posts on this exact issue here before, mainly from stains during transportation (those greasy truck drivers) and from sunroof repairs. So I'll say in this case we can prove it right.
The Carrier Dented My Car - Page 9�
Apr 1, 2013
Panacea Yay! I just received a phone from the NJ store saying that my car will come with the Alcantara headliner as well....whenever the red goes into production, that is. I am pleased with this outcome. It was the right thing to do .�
Apr 1, 2013
yobigd20 They're still glossing over the fact that that change was deceptive and takes away a high price luxury feature that puts more money in their pocket.�
Apr 1, 2013
EMDoc Haha we may never know the real reason but I think it's a combo of cost savings and pushing the cars out before the quarter end. In any case, I'm going to aim for a professional upholstery company to replace it at the Tesla service if they let me (considering the service advisor told me he can't change it out with his staff). Going to try to go for black. Keep the thread updated please as I want to see what each center will offer. Thanks!�
Apr 1, 2013
cdabel The Model S is truly amazing. It updates its software and downgrades its interior features automatically!�
Apr 2, 2013
spatterso911 My M5 has an alcantara covered sunshade.
Sent via Tapatalk�
Apr 2, 2013
spatterso911 Grand theft in the state of CA is defined as theft of property with aggregate value greater than $950. It changed a few years ago. Sorry, no grand theft here.
Sent via Tapatalk�
Apr 2, 2013
Martini It does kind of sound like they ran out of Alcantara and somebody made the decision to keep the production line running anyway. Makes sense for their Q1 push, but a shame it happened. All's well that ends well.�
Apr 2, 2013
yobigd20 can't believe I got multiple negative rep for being a realist and stating the facts for this commit. usually it's due to sarcastic humor that some people don't get and thats ok, I get that, but this is the plain ol' truth. oh well. I guess some people live in fantasy land too blind to the real world and the things that go on around them.�
Apr 2, 2013
AnOutsider pics?�
Apr 2, 2013
FlasherZ I agree. Although I am not a lawyer, I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once.
To claim theft, one must have taken possession in the first place as what one doesn't have can't be stolen. You can't claim they stole your money, because you willingly handed it to them as part of a contractual agreement. So therefore, your claim falls to contract law. You could claim breach of contract, but you'd likely have a hard time proving that since there is no contractual language guaranteeing you an alcantara headliner. The closest thing to that, as posted, was the bulletin board post that expounded on the value of the headliner compared to the Panamera, and some were quick to point at that and say "see! documentation! proof!" Yet, at the same time, there is contractual language that notes that some minor items not covered by the data sheet are subject to change, and the company made a decision to change them. Arguing the definition of "replete" will also be difficult in arbitration / court. So, you're unlikely to get anywhere based on breach of contract claims, either.
Let's get this clear: Tesla miscalculated the impact of their decision, or if they had already had this plan in their minds, they're guilty of the same communication problems that plagues this company on a regular basis. On this forum alone, I've seen at least 3 cases of complaints about staining on the headliners, and the inability to get them clean; I can understand where their heads were, if that's the reason. They have since made a decision to change the package. They are (in good faith) addressing the issues with customers who were caught in the middle of the transition, likely based upon some of the more productive feedback from this thread -- and despite the quite unproductive feedback.
The supplier for the headliners is local to me, and I happened to meet some of the staff there. It doesn't sound like a supply issue, as it sounds as if Tesla has made the decision going forward, and I didn't get the sense that there were any supply constraints when I mentioned the furor here.
I would offer that it wasn't the threats of bringing them up on grand theft or larceny charges, or blasting this story on every news wire service that one can find that brought them to this decision; it was the reasoned feedback - the simple statement of "the alcantara headliner was an important part of the performance package for me" - that allows them to make it right.
I've learned over many years that the quickest way to lose ground in a negotiation or conversation is to threaten nuclear options (like going to court)... if you want to send a legal letter, you'd best be DAMNED sure you're going to win and have the opinion of a lawyer -- even if you are one -- who can help you take your emotions out of it. I once watched as a colleague of mine in a high stakes negotiation (capital purchase over a million dollars) just hint at taking the supplier to court for a relatively minor scheduling issue, and the supplier immediately stopped the conversation and walked away.
Bottom line: have some respect. Those working for Tesla are not out to screw you. Work with them, you might find they'll work with you. Know when and how to work the chain and escalate effectively. An e-mail to George B. 2 hours after you e-mail ownership@ for the first time is probably inappropriate. An e-mail to George B. after 4 different answers from 4 different ownership@ representatives over the course of a month is more appropriate.
I've found simple negotiations and appropriate escalation at the right times will win over anything.�
Apr 2, 2013
yobigd20 well I probably wouldn't do it if I was in that position (I have the alcantara), I would just complain a lot. people voiced their opinions here, myself included, and those who were affected emailed ownership. like you said this was just another communication failure on Tesla's part. But in the end they did the right thing. that's all that really matters. I hope they finally learn their lesson though that their customer base is just too smart to pull one over on like this. Communication is vital or they risk having misunderstandings and fired up customers.�
Apr 2, 2013
JRP3 So you're basically agreeing that your grand theft statement was over the top.�
Apr 2, 2013
yobigd20 I'm not a lawyer or law enforcement officer so I have no clue how to classify it. I guess theft wouldn't apply here, and fraud would probably be more applicable, simply because the 'act was hidden' and no public or private statement was made beforehand. http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-fraud-and-theft/ theft would probably be more like if someone dropped their car off for service and personal items were stolen. but I agree with what other's have said that while there may be enough to justify some sort of action, I doubt it would ever win anyway due to their disclaimers about some things may change before delivery.�
Apr 2, 2013
FlasherZ Fraud requires a knowing intent to deceive, meaning that you would need to prove that Tesla intentionally removed alcantara headliners to keep your money. You'd have the same problems as you would with breach of contract, because not only would you have to prove intent to defraud, you'd have to prove that the contract language that gave them permission to change minor specifications of the car isn't a valid defense.�
Apr 2, 2013
yobigd20 well I'm just happy to see Tesla did the right thing in the end. I believe our voices were heard. So I'm done with this thread. lol�
Apr 2, 2013
pete8314 +1 to that.
It'll also be interesting to see what the new option price is, my bet is it'll be north of $500...!�
Apr 3, 2013
neroden Every time an *advertised* feature of the car is changed. This means that the engineering and design people have to pay attention to *what has been marketed*, and if they are considering changing something, they have to warn the marketing people.
This is, in some sense, an interdepartmental coordination problem.
I believe I have seen such writing regarding the Signatures, but you're right, I can't remember seeing such a statement about the Performance. The text was so similar for the two that I think people made some assumptions... (Edit: I see Pete found the explicit statement by Tesla about the headliner.)
Yeah. Smart online retailers have been making special efforts to provide extremely accurate information about their products so that buying online can be as reliable as buying in person. But that's hard. (It's nightmarishly hard in clothing, where you have to have extremely accurate sizing information, far more accurate than most brick-and-mortar companies ever have.) And Tesla hasn't quite managed that high, high standard.
Anyway, very thoughtful comment, ElSupreme, I felt inspired to respond.
- - - Updated - - -
I was wondering about this too. Luckily I do have fog lights (managed to activate them and verify).
- - - Updated - - -
Glad to hear that Tesla has "made it right", of course.
The internal communication problems at the company seem to continue...
For those with cloth who wanted Alcantara who are considering doing their own headliner replacement with a different shop, I was told by Tesla that they would consider this to void the warranty, due to the presence of airbags. So watch out. It is probably better to go with Tesla's headliner replacement because it'll be under warranty.�
Apr 3, 2013
jigish quick update. just got back from the service center (driving an enterprise prius - what a crazy downgrade =/) and i asked about the alcantara headliner. my service guy said they were low on the parts required so i may not be able to get it done this time around. he did mention that it is a pretty time consuming fix. on my service paperwork he put it down as a "due bill" item even though it isn't technically on the due bill i signed on delivery. frankly i didn't mind not having it all that much but it is really nice that Tesla is doing the right thing and retrofitting the cars that want it. big ups to the Tesla service department. definitely top-notch from what i've seen so far.�
Apr 6, 2013
Corinna I was promised the alcantara retrofit earlier in the week also by my delivery specialist and the Ownership Team and kept waiting for service to contact me to schedule, which they never did. This morning I received an apologetic call from Ownership saying that the attempted retrofits this week were not going well and too hard to do, so they are not going to be able to offer this after all. As consolation, Peter initially offered me Tesla apparel, which I promptly declined. His 2nd offer was first year of service free ($600 credit applied to my pre-paid 4yr service plan). I'm still deciding and may see if I can get 2 or 3yrs. Has anyone else due for the alcantara retrofit been contacted or been offered anything different?�
Apr 6, 2013
AnOutsider Ouch. I am not in this situation, and don't want to seem to be influencing anyone, but if it were my car, I don't think I could accept that.�
Apr 6, 2013
carrerascott I would get a quote from a auto repair shop on how much it would cost to replace the interior with alcantara. Get it in writing. Start with that price when negotiating. If they quote $1200, ask for 2 years of service. If they say $1800, ask for 3. And it depends how much you wanted the alcantara. If you really wanted it, ask for more. Mine came with it, so I don't know how I'd feel.
�
Apr 6, 2013
JRP3 I don't understand how the retrofit could be so difficult. The headliners were installed at the factory obviously, and aftermarket shops can do it, so what's the problem? Is Tesla saying if a headliner ever needs to be replaced for some reason it's not possible?�
Apr 6, 2013
Elshout I think the fabric if first rate. If you want to see cheap, look at the Toyota RAV4 EV�
Apr 6, 2013
carrerascott Only problem with this comparison is the RAV4EV doesn't cost $100k.
�
Apr 6, 2013
jerry33 My guess would be that Tesla doesn't have enough people in the field that are trained on how to install the headliners properly so they are trying to find alternatives.�
Apr 6, 2013
gobagheera I'm looking to get the headliner replaced at the Fremont service center. I was told that the design of the headliner is now different from my current headliner (I think it had something to do with the seat belts) and they would have to special order the parts that would fit my vehicle. It's interesting that my headliner design is obsolete since I took delivery only 2 weeks ago. So I am currently waiting word on when the parts would come in.
Also, when the parts come in, I am told that it is a 3 day job since the windshield has to be removed to put the headliner in.
I really wish they would have just put the alcantara in there in the first place.�
Apr 6, 2013
brianman I must admit that if I was (a) aware due to TMC, (b) took delivery recently (last week or so), and (c) didn't have the Alcantara on my Perf, I'd be tempted to ask Tesla to either (1) fix it or (2) deliver me a new vehicle and resell my current vehicle.
For the Signatures, this would be "more complicated" but for general production they should be able to make you a new no-drama vehicle that matched what you ordered.
My sympathies that this is such a hassle for the recent Perf deliveries.�
Apr 7, 2013
EMDoc Wow...I haven't heard of any cancellation. My advisor told me they have parts on order (I hope they get the visors correct) and it should be a 3 day job. He said they would have to either remove the windshield or take off a door. Not sure which. Either one doesn't sound appealing and I too wish they didn't cause this mess in the first place. I would prefer they remove a door instead of the windshield. Either way, 500 doesn't cut it. I looked into black alcantara and the job is at least 2k (good upholstery shop in SD that has done Seinfeld's Porsches).
Anyway, I need this corrected asap and all the other things on the due bill as well. It's as if the car is half complete and they pushed it out before the end of March to exceed their targets. Not cool.�
Apr 7, 2013
NigelM Price comparison is immaterial as the RAV4EV only has a range of ~100 miles.�
Apr 7, 2013
ohmslaw So I'm confused by the current status of this. Are they going back to alacantara going forward? My car is in production for the end of this month, and I'm wondering if I have to call the reservations people and ask them what's up.�
Apr 7, 2013
gobagheera My understanding is they have gone back to alcantara for performance models.
�
Apr 7, 2013
EMDoc agreed. and they better figure out how to retrofit it as I don't want a whole new set of problems afterward. either that or reimburse a private upholstery company to come out to the service center to have it fixed.�
Apr 7, 2013
ohmslaw Guess I'll know for sure in a few weeks
�
Apr 7, 2013
Corinna Update: After hearing some of the feedback on here (thank you for your input) and sleeping on it, I called back Ownership this morning and unfortunately had a very frustrating conversation. Having the Alacantra headliner in there completes the car (in addition to a wish for power close button for the frunk - not in any of the designs but a wish of mine nevertheless) and anything less than that cheapens the car - making it the factory defect car that gets shipped off to an outlet mall (so to speak), so I insisted to Peter that they find a way to retrofit the car (whether via service center, factory, or outsourced) and that this claim that the company can't retrofit the car is ridiculous given what bigger feats Elon Musk and Tesla have accomplished beyond installing a headliner in a car. He admitted that when he hung up with me he anticipated I would come back with a "no" and he went back to his VPs with a "What if she says no?" To which they replied to him - get her to compromise. They don't want to do it, which is really upsetting to me that they don't care about integrity and Tesla is untrustworthy. I am starting to feel like it's going to be a crapshoot what you get upon delivery and they don't care about doing the right thing or doing enough to maintain the company's reputation. This is a shame because it has tarnished my ownership experience and relationship with TM. I LOVE my car and the features that did come with it and I love showing off my car to everyone (the technology stands on its own), but the company's handling of this situation really calls into question whether I can trust and believe in the company behind the product. At this point, Peter told me he would take me response back to his VPs and try to advocate for me, but he warned me they are going to say no. I'm not sure where this leaves me or anyone else in this situation. This really sucks.�
Apr 7, 2013
AnOutsider Would they not consider swapping the car?�
Apr 7, 2013
Electric1 This whole matter is very distressing. They should not have created the problem (poor form at least, deception at worst), then they deepend the hole that they dug by coming out with a "PR driven" response, which promises what they don't intend to deliver and they are now putting some lower level employees in a tough spot.
While I love my car, and am not personnally involved in this mess, but if this is the scenario, as seems to be the case, I am truly disappointed. I have already "sold" a MS and am working on a second, but perhaps I shall have to stop until I am more reassured about te organization.�
Apr 7, 2013
zero Just received my P85 this week with NO alacantra headliner. I had read this thread and had mentioned it to my DS. Hopefully they will resolve this, but the responses thus far don't sound too optimistic.
By the way, the cloth like headliner that is there now is no where near the quality if the Alacantra.�
Apr 7, 2013
ohmslaw Hmm. Hope the issue was just that your car was too close to completion by the time they changed their policy.�
Apr 7, 2013
Shakespear I assumed that this was fixed and there would be no further MS performance EV without the Alacantra headliner. I was waiting for this to be fixed before I order my Performance "S". Will not order until this is handled by Tesla.�
Apr 7, 2013
DavidNJ Dealers of various brands regularly send cars for sunroof/convertible top installation and repair. Their are many shop that specialize in this. Very few auto dealers have this expertise in their service department. Some may have it in their collision repair shops. Those collision shop do remove headliners, but often send out convertible tops and sunroofs.�
Apr 7, 2013
Corinna Well, I have hope again. I ended up sending an email to George B. and Elon Musk late this evening. Elon personally replied within 15 minutes with the commitment to replace the headliner. Here's his response:
"My apologies for this. The Alcantara headliner error is indeed our fault and Tesla will replace it for you. As soon as I understood what had happened, I reversed the decision and now all esthetic changes must be approved by me via explicit physical inspection.
Something that may not have been explained is that this is a very difficult procedure, because it requires removal of the entire front windscreen. This in turn can damage other interior elements that need to be replaced. It is also not something that the service team is trained to do, so we will need to fly out factory technicians to execute this to proper production standards.
We should be able to turn this around by end of week.
Elon"
It seems sincere to me and I am going to have faith that this will get done now that he has committed to it and cc'd his reply to George B. and Jerome G. How long it takes is a different matter, but one I'm willing to give them some wiggle room for given the intricacies involved. I am still disappointed there was so much drama about this and that I had to escalate it to the top, but I am relieved that Elon was responsive and is holding true to his word standing behind the vehicle. Integrity is everything.�
Apr 7, 2013
Aussie Could someone maybe post a few pictures of how Alcantara looks? I am one of the cloth P85 "victims" and would like to decide whether I should try to press for a retrofit (and risking that other things break in the process) or rather try to get some price reduction. Thanks!�
Apr 7, 2013
cdabel Sounds like some mid level executives need a serious talking to at Tesla.�
Apr 8, 2013
EMDoc Sigh - I can't believe all this. Just to push the car out before April. Feels as though its unfinished and spent 100k on "hope"
I actually asked if my car could be delayed till April...�
Apr 8, 2013
pete8314 That's a decent reply from Elon (and he knows it'll be posted publically, so I'm sure it applies to everyone that didn't get their headliner), but seriously, how can a decision be made like that without the senior leadership team knowing? Now they have to fly a team out to each impacted vehicle, of which I assume there's a significant number (even allowing for those that choose to live with the fabric headliner, though IMHO that would be a bad decision from a resale point of view).
It's an expensive mistake (in terms of time, material, expenses and reputation) that didn't need to have happened.�
Apr 8, 2013
Martini Delegating authority is always a tough balancing act. Elon also had to walk-back the email sent by the sales manager who was exhorting customers to pay before Q1 end to help hit the numbers. While these are problems created by middle managers, at the same time, Elon can't be everywhere at once, especially as the company grows in size. As staff gain time and experience (many Tesla staff must be quite new), they will likely internalise and formalise a corporate set of principles for such decisions.�
Apr 8, 2013
swegman There has been a shakeup in personnel at Tesla. i don't know whether it is related to this or other matters (no one is talking), but Elon is becoming more involved.�
Apr 8, 2013
yobigd20 Maybe this is what Elon was referring to when he said one of their upcoming announcements is going to be service related. Perhaps he meant 'customer service'. Clearly they are pretty bad at communication, and depending on who talks to who you get a different story each time. IMO that's really the only negative thing I would say about Tesla. Hearing about a 'shakeup' in personnel at Tesla is very good news to me. They needed some internal crackdown on employees regarding customer communication. The positive side to all this is that in the end, I think Tesla always does the right thing. It just takes them a little time to get there, that's it.�
Apr 8, 2013
AnOutsider Indeed, that would be great news. Elon has more important things to do I'm sure, but taking a month or so to set some guidelines for these folks will save a lot of headache down the road.�
Apr 8, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla I've heard this before from ex- and current employees (on the battery and software engineering side). It's apparently been fairly chaotic and dysfunctional with ordinary management at various levels. It's amazing how well they've executed despite that. Time for Elon to take charge for sure.�
Apr 8, 2013
contaygious If the headliner shows down cars then why does tesla's site state there is about a 3 month wait for regular and two month wait for p85?�
Apr 8, 2013
EMDoc Corinna - Tried to send a PM but your mailbox is full. Thanks for the message and hopefully we can figure out the plan in SD. I'm hoping to drop it off on Wed after I call Chip now.
Thanks!�
Apr 8, 2013
artsci Does this mean that the cars now being built will have the Alcantara headliner? I think mine's on the production line now or in a matter of days.�
Apr 8, 2013
Corinna I would call your DS or Ownership to confirm.�
Apr 8, 2013
Kaivball I think they ran out of Alcantara and switched temporarily to cloth to make their number.
Interestingly, service told me that they switched carbon spoiler suppliers, hence the delays.�
Apr 8, 2013
DrDave I don't see where Joost was copied on Corinna's email (unless his name was just left off), where George and Jerome were.�
Apr 8, 2013
brianman I won't claim they are good pictures, but here are some pictures by request.
�
Apr 8, 2013
sjm Just registered here after being told about it over on the other Tesla Forum.
Confirmed today that my P85 that I am set to take delivery on this Friday has the cloth headliner as well. Would of taken delivery before end of March but was off on vacation. Was amazed that Tesla had my car "ready" this fast as I confirming my build on 3/1 - they where doing everything possible to push out every high dollar car before month end and several of us are now dealing with incorrect interior bits.
According to my delivery specialist, Tesla is going to replace my headliner with the Alcantara piece but, I think he is clueless as to what is happening with those they are trying to replace. Will be monitoring this thread carefully so please, those that are dealing with this issue, keep everyone updated as to what is happening with your car. Personally, I told them that we will delay delivery until the headliner is fixed so, we will see what they do with my car. Told them they also have the option of building my car all over again, correctly this time. Just lucky that EMDoc posted this problem otherwise I would not have asked and gotten a huge shock on Friday.
Other question I have for those that have gotten P85's with cloth headliner, is the lower dash correct? The Perfomance cars should have Napa Leather on the lower dash, standard cars have leatherette. Please report if this is also missing (doubt it as it appears Tesla just ran short on Alcantara headliners).�
Apr 8, 2013
Corinna He was not cc'd. Just the other two.�
Apr 8, 2013
Corinna Called my SA midday today to see if word had trickled down on how to proceed and he had just received a lengthy email before I called about it - great timing! He read it to me and essentially said the same thing as Elon did last night - it included an apology and assumption of responsibility on Tesla's behalf for making the mistake, and that this is not a quick fix but will be done for anyone who wants it. It included the disclaimer about the windshield coming off as well as other parts and that the procedure could damage other interior components which they would then need to replace so there could be delays in completing the work. That said, if the customer chooses to proceed with the replacement, the SA is to order parts for delivery in advance of scheduling the factory techs to come out and do the work.
If there are multiple cars at a service center, they are also going to try to coordinate so they all get done in one shot as far as factory tech time. Here in San Diego, there are 2 of us already signed up for the replacement, so we are going to be scheduled together.
Anyway, if you're wondering how to proceed, here are your options:
If you have your car and want the replacement, understanding the risks and time involved, call your SA to get your parts ordered or confirm they were really ordered (I'm dubious they were actually ordered last week based on the email the SA got today with explicit directions). SA will then call you back to schedule as he/she coordinates with the factory techs. (SJM - I think this applies to you too - your car has probably already left the factory and may already be at the SC if you're taking delivery Friday).
If you don't want to take the risk or are not interested in the alcantara replacement, call Ownership to get a service/merchandise credit.
Hope this helps! Good luck, everyone!�
Apr 9, 2013
Aussie Thanks for the pictures. It does look better than the cloth.�
Apr 9, 2013
EMDoc Corinna pretty much summarized it all. Now I'm just anxious to get it back and have it functional without any more surprises.
And yes, I believe there is Napa leather on the lower dash.�
Apr 9, 2013
DrDave Interesting. Thank you.�
Apr 9, 2013
justaddsun Sorry guys, but a local owner of one of these new cloth headliner P85s also has the leatherette lower dash and not the nappa leather that I have seen on previous P85s. I didn't think it was a big deal and like the durability of leatherette there, but if you paid for it, that may be a different story. This looks like it would be a much quicker swap out than the headliner if Tesla chose to do that...
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2�
Apr 9, 2013
jimbakker666 So, umm...is Tesla going to proactively notify all vehicle owners affected by this or are they just gonna wait to see if the customer notices a difference in headliner and questions it? It's sort of a no-brainer.�
Apr 9, 2013
gobagheera I'm P85 cloth headliner owner and I can't tell if my lower dash is leatherette or not. It seems identical to the leather on the seats. How can you tell the difference?�
Apr 9, 2013
gobagheera On further thought, I don't even care if it is leatherette since I can't tell the difference from the my leather seats. However, the headliner - I can definitely tell the difference.�
Apr 9, 2013
vfx I would imagine it would become a tech bulletin If owners don't know, don't notice or don't care then they may or may not ever get a replacement. There could be hundreds.
As connected as I am to the Tesla community I did not hear about the Roadster radio antenna upgrade that was a tech bulletin for more than a year. I just happened to mention the car's poor reception when our service center got new management and they asked how I liked the car... Of course I posted the upgrade here for others.�
Apr 9, 2013
jimbakker666 This sort of stuff makes me want to go volunteer my labor for Tesla and take care of it, it's annoying to see them missing the easy stuff. Just give me the lowest, filthiest, throwaway Model S as compensation�
Apr 9, 2013
EMDoc You are right, the lower dash is synthetic and not napa. It doesn't bother me though. I'm ok with that though that is sneaky as well! Will check others.�
Apr 10, 2013
sjm Talked to delivery specialist on my car today and they will be getting the parts and a team up from factory to replace the headliner on my car before I take delivery. No idea yet on timing, guessing it may be a bit quicker turn for me as they want to get my money and delivery the vehicle. Has anyone out there had their headliner replaced at this point and are they happy with the work that Tesla did in replacing it?
According to this same contact, only difference on my car from all other P85's is the headliner but I am pushing them harder on the dash as I'm betting if a couple others got leatherette, mine will have it as well. Personally, I would be more worried about them replacing the dash then the headliner as dashes are notorious for squeaks and rattles.�
Apr 10, 2013
yobigd20 that sucks. scanning through some stuff, there was this post http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_FR/forum/forums/model-s-vs-model-s-performance-price-difference that said:
View attachment 19896
So much for the "extensive leather throughout".
Let's start a new poll thread titled 'What will they take away next on the P85 without telling anyone?'
A) the contrast piping
B) Alcantara bolsters (whatevers left of it anyway)
C) sport-tuned traction control (who knows if there really is a difference here)
D) the P85 pedals
E) the spoiler (I have yet to receive mine, so technically this might already be true, lol)
F) carbon fiber accents
G) all nappa leather replaced by pleather
H) high performance power inverter
I) the steering wheel
J) the front mats
K) the touchscreen, replaced by a cardboard mockup that you see in furniture stores.
clearly, I'm being sarcastic. But as a P85 owner, I get personally offended when I hear that they start to take away features that made the P85 unique in the first place. I really hope the synthetic leather on a P85 was a mistake and that they'll fix it for you. If Elon is really on top of this like he said, I doubt he'd sign off on this one too. I don't think we'll ever know the real reason why the Alcatara headliner and nappa leather accents are being taken away, or if that was just a 'poor temporary business call' to shove more cars out the door by the end of March. I suspect that may be the issue, and the decision to do that was likely made without Elon's knowledge, and I am sure he is also personally offended by it and has probably already yelled at or fired whoever made those decisions. All speculation of course. We need someone on the inside....lol They hiring?? haha�
Apr 10, 2013
justaddsun I was told the lower dash leatherette can be swapped out in 10 minutes. Its essentially a cover that is held in with clips.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2�
Apr 10, 2013
ElSupreme So here is the big philosophical question: Does it matter if it is leather or not if you can't tell the difference?
I know for a lot of people it does. And that is fine. But actually in general prefer synthetic leather to dead cow carcass. Not that I don't love me some leather, but if I can't tell the difference then give me the petro-leather!
On my shoes I can tell a difference, they are leather. On my seating surfaces I can't tell the difference so they are synthetic. Belts are leather because the synthetic stuff doesn't hold up nearly as well. Some panel that I never really touch, not going to be a problem if it is petro-leather.
And don't forget the Alcantara everyone loves so much is petro-leather. Alcantara (material) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia�
Apr 10, 2013
SouthJerseyJon I think they should just market the petro-leather as 100%Genuine Imitation Leather....sounds like leather so it must be leather.�
Apr 10, 2013
Corinna I believe my dash has the synthetic leather too - it is different from the seats and is textured. What are the pros/cons to leatherette vs. nappa leather on the dash? I'm inclined to get the dash replaced with the real leather but would like to hear why so many of you are choosing to keep the leatherette.�
Apr 10, 2013
justaddsun The P85 nappa on the lower dash feels like the nappa on the seats or doors -- very, very soft and smooth. The lower dash leatherette feels tougher and grainier like the top dash. I have no doubt it is more durable than the nappa and kind of wished they put leatherette on the doors where my elbow and arm goes.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2�
Apr 10, 2013
artsci Emailed my DS last night to ask about if the Alcantara headliner would be installed on the reds entering production. Good news. Here's the response:
Because your car has not started production yet, it was not affected by this mistake and it will come with the proper Alcantara headliner. Thank you for reaching out and asking.�
Apr 10, 2013
Ohms.Law Good news artsci! Although I still don't think it's a deal breaker like many seem to think. But then again I don't have either cloth or Alcantara so what do I know.�
Apr 10, 2013
sjm Today's word on my car is that they are waiting for factory to tell them what parts are needed and when they will be available. Was also told that another option to putting the proper Alcantara headliner into my car was an offer of $1k off to accept the car as is. This $1k bone is in line with the 2 years of free service they have offered others. Told them make that $2k and allow me to have the headliner corrected by a upholstery shop without "voiding" the warranty as has been reported and they have a deal. Supposed to get an answer back to me in next couple days on this one.
To those who are confused why some of us are making a big deal out of this --- for me, it is somewhat about the Alcantara as I love that material as a headliner even though it is a synthetic - looks very rich. Bigger issue is Tesla just changing the build spec on the car without informing any of us - that is just wrong of a company to do something like this and I, for one, will hold their feet to the fire to correct it.
On Napa versus leatherette on the lower dash - the Napa is a much nicer feel and matches the seats and door panels more exactly. Leatherette is pretty bullet proof material but I do not see the lower dash seeing any wear no mater the material, just not an area that sees abuse in my cars. Real leather is no more work to care for properly in my opinion and will look perfect for a very long time with basic care. To me, another thing that Tesla changed without telling folks on this batch of "get them out before the end of the quarter" P85's!�
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