Jul 22, 2013
VolkerP While I agree that Tesla should do the best thing for all of their customers, we must look at this from a point of limited resources. Only a small number of owners faces daily commutes of +150 or even 200 miles. CHAdeMO charging for road trips is only possible where CHAdeMO charging stations are placed along highways. I understand that this is the case only in WA+OR, where the latest Tesla Superchargers where opened up last week. Again, small number of customers. Fast charging at your destination sounds nice, but remember that you are obliged to move the car ASAP to free a scarce resource. That could be rather impractical or inconvenient, because you want to spend your time at the destination (e.g. restaurant, movie, Disney land), not tending towards your car.
And as soon as Tesla will make a CHAdeMO adapter available, there will be whining about cost, availability, bulkiness, reliability of operation with different CHAdeMO vendors, acquiring a means of payment for the loads of different CHAdeMO operators, and so on.
I'd rather prefer Tesla stays focused on expanding the supercharger network.�
Jul 22, 2013
metafor The point is that a fairly large CHAdeMO network is already up. As far as cost to benefits ratio for its customers, providing an adapter seems to be higher than a new Supercharger location. And once it's done, it's done.
I'm in the middle of planning a road trip from SF bay to Portland using highway 1 and then 5. Having access to the plethora of CHAdeMO chargers would be a huge boon.�
Jul 22, 2013
brianman Well, I tried to help but you guys refuse to let it go so here we go around the track again.
For discussion purposes, I'll briefly grant "only in WA+OR". Given that that are roughly 15,000 Model S vehicles in customer hands and (as I understand it) there are probably 1,000 - 1,500 Model S vehicles in WA state alone.
Are you saying that 7-10% of the customer base is "small number of customers"? If that's the criteria then there's a whole lot of stuff Tesla shouldn't be "wasting" its precious time and resources on. Heck for that matter they should totally screw over Signature customers blindly because they're already "small" and diminishing every day. Right?�
Jul 22, 2013
AmpedRealtor CHAdeMO would also be valuable to those who do not have permanent garages - i.e., inner city dwellers. They need some way to keep their vehicles charged and ready to go while parked on the street or in a carport. Having high speed DC charging available locally would make this a non-issue. It's just an adapter, my goodness! A $12 Billion car company should be able to spare a few people to design a CHAdeMO adapter for a car that it's been shipping for a year now.�
Jul 22, 2013
Rowlock I'm in approximately that situation, which is a big part of why I'd like an adaptor.
You make it sound simple, like they've dropped the ball already. But bear in mind, it's not just a matter of making a plug the right shape. This isn't like the J1772 plug adaptor. CHAdeMO is a completely alien protocol, and any converter will need complicated electronics inside to fool the charger into thinking it's running the show, while actually allowing the car to control the charging session transparently in the background.
Not a trivial engineering task, when you consider that a mistake in the adaptor coding could fry your battery pack, cause a fire, etc etc.�
Jul 22, 2013
PhilBa I have to laugh when I hear people trying to characterize what kind and where chargers are needed. 100thMonkey (would love to hear the orgin of that name...) pretty much hit it - need anything and everything. There are parts of washington and oregon that I love to visit but are going to be a challenge, especially without a chademo adapter. As such, Tesla should be aggressively getting as many adapters done as possible. Tesla should definitely not be thinking "how many more MSs could we sell with X or Y adapter". Because the better the charging story, the more cars they will sell.�
Jul 22, 2013
AmpedRealtor Agreed! Tesla should give us every option and let us decide what is best for each of us. I am sure it is not technically trivial to design a CHAdeMO adapter, I understand there are some control issues and hurdles. I also understand that next year's Leaf and upcoming BMW i3 will be using the SAE Combo plug. So yet another standard is coming.�
Jul 22, 2013
dsm363 Next year's leaf is going to abandon the CHAdeMO plug for combo SAE plug? If so then I think you may see future DC quick chargers supporting that standard instead of CHAdeMO or even current ones getting converted assuming Nissan provides an adapter for current Leaf owners. Tesla still needs to provide the adapter for current installations.�
Jul 22, 2013
evmile What is the source of this information. Every time I ask Nissan (two weeks ago at the Sunnyvale research center) they say no they are sticking with Chademo.�
Jul 22, 2013
100thMonkey The origin of 100th Monkey: "The claim is that unidentified scientists were conducting a study of macaque monkeys on the Japanese island of Koshima in 1952. These scientists purportedly observed that some of these monkeys learned to wash sweet potatoes, and gradually this new behavior spread through the younger generation of monkeys�in the usual fashion, through observation and repetition. the researchers claim to have observed that once a critical number of monkeys was reached�the so-called hundredth monkey�this previously learned behavior instantly and unexplicably spread across the water to monkeys on nearby islands."
After a period of great struggle by EV advocates, one day there will suddenly be EV's everywhere... be the 100thMonkey in your neighborhood! :~)
�
Jul 23, 2013
TonyWilliams Lots of crazy assumptions up there!!! ^^^^
CHAdeMO will be the DOMINANT world standard for the foreseeable future. Nissan, Mitsubishi, Kia, Peugeot, Citro�n, etc will continue to use the standard that is the same throughout the world.
Yes, the Frankenplug folks will keep throwing out hints how their currently ZERO operational public stations and ZERO cars is taking over. Ya, sure it will.
CHAdeMO is at about 3000 stations worldwide, and over 200 in the USA.
Where most of the electric cars are in the USA is where most of the CHAdeMO stations are. It's just not rocket science, folks.�
Jul 23, 2013
dsm363 Interesting analysis.
CHAdeMO - EVs compatible with CHAdeMO
How many of these cars are sold in mass numbers the US? Tesla has sold over half the number of Model Ss as Leafs in the US and started 2 years after Nissan did.
Anyway, this tread is about the adapter. Unless BMW, Mercedes. Audi, GM, Ford, Chrysler and many other manufactures adopt CHAdeMO I'm not sure it will become the world standard. There will likely be more than one 'standard'. It will likely be many years before any of this is decided in the US market though so having the adapter until things get sorted out will still be valuable.�
Jul 23, 2013
Eberhard Hope that Daimler and BMW are opting the Tesla plug. its compatible for the protocol and therefore easy to adopt�
Jul 23, 2013
PaceyWhitter As said above, BMW is opting for the frankenplug.�
Jul 23, 2013
jerry33 When I drive to and stay in Lincoln, I also go about every other day to Omaha. That's a bit more than a 100 mile round trip. Sure not everyone does this, but I don't think it's all that uncommon either.�
Jul 23, 2013
PhilBa I think it's a lot more common than people are suggesting. If I drive 500 miles to visit a city, I'm probably going to take side/day trips to various attractions. Not everything is within a few miles of each other. Even if they are only 25-50 miles away from where I'm staying, it adds up pretty quick.�
Jul 23, 2013
wcalvin Just had an unanticipated extra hundred miles last weekend on San Juan Island, largely due to giving a friend a ride in the MS. The NEMA 14-50 I'd located on the island in advance turned out to be tied up by a NOAA research instrumentation trailer. Made it back to the Burlington WA supercharger with 15 miles left.�
Jul 23, 2013
AmpedRealtor I am so sorry, my information about Nissan abandoning CHAdeMO is INCORRECT. I read an article over at Inside EVs, looked away when my dogs made some noises, and when I looked back I thought I picked up from where I left off but apparently I started reading someone's comment on the article rather than the article itself. It was the comment that asserted Nissan and others would be abandoning CHAdeMO next year.
It's time to get a bigger screen... LOL�
Jul 23, 2013
stopcrazypp Same observations I made in other threads. CHAdeMO's dominance in the US is far from certain. Japan it's certain and some non-EU European countries it's fairly certain though. It's all down to how long the Leaf can hold its crown.
True, but the Model S connector for Europe is extremely similar to the Mennekes plug, just with deeper pins for DC charging (instead of two dedicated DC pins). If Tesla proposes it to the IEC, they can still have a chance of getting it approved before the European version of the DC plug is in wide usage.�
Jul 24, 2013
FairFrank In EUROPE Mennekes Type 2 is the standard for AC and CHAdeMO for DC. In my Dutch area (150 km circle) there are tens of CHAdeMO DC fastloaders ( 50 - 80 kW) and NO Tesla Superchargers at all. It would be unbelievable if there 1) comes no CHAdeMO adapter or - even better - 2) Tesla Superchargers switch to CHAdeMO. Didn't they learn from the Philips Video2000 marketing case?
My best guess is, Tesla is monitoring the European developments to determine who will be the winner: The Tesla station network with swap and Superchargers (NONE build yet) or the CHAdeMO DC network (over HUNDRED build yet). They want to control the whole chain. However, psychology demonstrates that front runners don't understand you oft only can win the race by hooking up with a lagger.�
Jul 24, 2013
hiroshiy @dsm363: wrong link for CHAdeMO cars.
CHAdeMO EVs, Chargers and Connectors CHAdeMO Association
They did a very poor job when moved to a new site.�
Jul 24, 2013
Laumb Frank, 6 superchargers is currently under construction In Norway.�
Jul 24, 2013
dsm363 Thanks. Lot more cars it looks like. For the US though it looks like Leaf is only major player at this point pushing their standard.�
Jul 24, 2013
jkirkebo Well, none built yet that is correct. But all 6 of the first wave of SuperChargers in Norway are now under construction. So in about a month we will have 6 operational SCs in Norway, with 3-4 active port each (space and power reserved for 6-10 ports at each location for future expansion).�
Jul 24, 2013
100thMonkey and remarkably, sales are surging. Nissan just sold it's 100,000th Leaf, most have CHAdeMO port. there are several CHAdeMO options within a few miles of my house. I don't think CHAdeMO is all that great, I do believe Tesla's is better, but it's clear, CHAdeMO will be around for a while and there is just no good reason to not have access to it!
�
Jul 24, 2013
bluetinc 100thMonkey,
But when they do release it, and the price for it is at $2,500, will you feel that you then have access to it?
It seems like most who post on this thread are expecting this adapter to be just another $100-$500 adapter. I think that when we see the adapter released we will then see 64 pages of complaints on the price of the adapter and talk about how they should have made a cheaper adapter or not bothered at all.
Peter
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Jul 24, 2013
PhilBa @bluetinc, do you have specific information on the price or are you guessing? I spoke to a Tesla Marketing Manager about a week ago who told me the chademo adapter would be in the $1500 range. His words were, "It won't be cheap, maybe $1500 or so". I always take anything an employee says (even Elon!) with a healthy dose of skepticism but place a little more of that on non-employees and guesses. lol�
Jul 24, 2013
bluetinc It's the price I ended up at after roughing out the design of one a year ago or so (Connectors, PCB/CCA costs, Assembly, profit, etc.) but not including the $500K-$1M+ in development costs. In the volumes that we would be looking at, finding an inlet side of a CHAdeMo connection is both difficult and very expensive. Going back to the manufacturers for pricing of those was quite a surprise for me after I had just ordered a couple J1772 inlets for sub $100. Then you add in licensing costs etc. etc. (Perhaps Tesla is looking at manufacturing their own inlet side?). It seems like this adapter would be better targeted at the CHAdeMO operators instead, where adding a Tesla S adapter for say 3K-4K would make much more sense since we are only talking about a couple hundred in the US and those operators have already shelled out a lot of money for the chargers.
Peter
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Jul 24, 2013
100thMonkey that's a good question. I see logic in Tesla comping the cost for a permanent pedistal install at existing CHAdeMO stations, or at least at key intersecting points and terminus's. $650 for the HPC is high enough that folks are pooling funds and putting them in lock boxes around here rather than everyone buying their own. If the CHAdeMO adapter is really expensive (don't know what that number would be), it's possible that Tesla would lose just as much money as if they comped them because the only sales they will get might be a smaller number of group buys. CHAdeMO will not be the long term standard, it's just not user friendly, too glitchy and breaks too easily but it's here now in large enough numbers to be accommodated at least short term. I've been impressed with how generous this crowd has been at sourcing permanent adapter instals... if the CHAdeMO adapter is really expensive it probably won't keep us from getting them in key locations as a group but it will hold back personal purchases. from what I've heard from my contact at the DOT here in WA, they would be open to coordinating efforts to get a CHAdeMO adapter network in places along the west coast green highway.
COME ON TESLA, GIVE US AN OFFICIAL RELEASE ON THIS SUBJECT, THE INFORMATION VACUUM IS EXCRUCIATING!
�
Jul 24, 2013
AmpedRealtor I would love someone to tell me why this adapter should cost more than $500. Is it made of gold or something?
If Tesla were named Apple, I would know exactly why there was no CHAdeMO adapter - because they don't want to give credibility to CHAdeMO as a competing DC charging standard. Tesla wants Superchargers to be the standard, hoping to leverage those superchargers to serve other vehicles at some point for a fee. Opening that up to CHAdeMO DC charging devalues the infrastructure that Tesla is building and would like to leverage down the road.
I suspect the slowness of getting a CHAdeMO adapter has less to do with technicals and cost, more to do with Tesla wanting to own as much of the "ecosystem" as possible.�
Jul 24, 2013
TonyWilliams Terrible plan, if so, since virtually all CHAdeMO's were installed with fixed public funds. There's not $3000 or $4000 floating around per charger (there are hundreds of CHAdeMO's in the USA, on track for 300 by year's end) to offer typically free power to folks driving government subsidized $100k luxury cars.
The same argument applies to the folks who suggest you just "throw on a Frankenplug" nozzle on CHAdeMO's. Just getting UL certification on all the various charger models and potential Frankenplug nozzles would cost millions.
- - - Updated - - -
You think the "standard" is the reason for glitchy chargers? Anything marked "Blink" would fail no matter what standard it was using.�
Jul 24, 2013
Lloyd From what I understand, Chademo decides how to charge the battery, and Tesla will not allow that to happen. Any adapter will have to be smart to some degree to intervene between the chademo logic, and what Tesla wants the car to have.�
Jul 24, 2013
TonyWilliams I would like to squash this rumor. On the factory tour last Sunday during Teslive, the tour guide made that same comment, and it seems to be Tesla lore, repeated ad nauseum and never challenged.
No DC charger of any current or future proposed communications protocol "tells the car how much power it will get". The car and the charger communicate as to how much power is available, and how much will be used. Obviously, the actual current draw will be the lower of the two.
Even the proposed Frankenplug does this, and of course, CHAdeMO has been doing this for about 5 years.�
Jul 24, 2013
markb1 I can't really answer this, but the UMC costs $595, and the HPWC costs $1200, and those are both glorified extension cords (simply a means of connecting the AC power from your house to the charge port). A CHAdeMo adapter has to be beefier than an HPWC, and it has to translate the signaling between the car and the charger, which the UMC and HPWC don't have to do.�
Jul 24, 2013
Eberhard CHAdeMO is not an european standard. CCS is selected by the EU as standard for DC as an addon to the TYP2 which already has DC charging ability (140A 500V)�
Jul 24, 2013
PhilBa Makes sense though translating signals isn't going to be that costly. The chademo adapter will have to fake a chademo compatible vehicle to the charger and fake a Tesla compatible (SAE? SC?) EVSE to the car. I hope they have one of their top power engineers on it. As has been posted before, the connectors and buss bars (or what ever they call them) will probably be the costliest components.�
Jul 24, 2013
Laumb So, this is my look into the crystal ball:
- Tesla (fact) has confirmed, multiple times - last time the Charging Guide for Europe, dated May - that a CHAdeMO adaptor will come to Europe.
- (speculation) Tesla has included all necessery hardware to communicate and trick CHAdeMO chargers In the new Europe-3-phase charger unit.
- (speculation) Due to above European customers will get hold of a direct adapter piece for CHAdeMO that costs $149,-.
- (speculation) This is the reason old US customers wont get CHAdeMO.
- (speculation) US cars will be fitted with a reworked charger including the same features, and an inlet om the car that has two more, tiny communication pins for CHAdeMO, but they will be backwards compatible with old connectors.
- (speculation) retrofit available for $2500 - 3500,- (new charger(s) and inlet).�
Jul 24, 2013
qwk ^^^Except DC power doesn't use any "charger" to charge the car. It's a direct path to the battery.�
Jul 24, 2013
Laumb I know that, but the reworked charger could contain all the communication stuff going on the communication bus to tell the CHAdeMO charger what kind og power to feed the battery at a certain time.
I am sure In regular supercharging there is a few key components that tells the supercharger something. The most logical solution for communicating would be through an existing connection: the on board chargers built In communicative device�
Jul 24, 2013
bluetinc Hey AmpedRealtor,
It all depends on exactly how it's designed, but for starters the CHAdeMO inlet is that much in itself, as an example Yazaki connectors and plugs run 500 pounds for receptacles and 1200 for plugs. Then add on the Model S plug along with a cable that will support the 120A of current, and that adds another few hundred dollars (~300+). That's $800+ before adding anything for the computer card that needs to interface the two, or the whole assembly, assembly costs, engineering costs, testing costs, certification costs, or profit.
Personally I think there are a couple of reasons that there is no adapter.
1. CHAdeMO chargers are not that much better than an HPWC. Most CHAdeMO systems are ~2X faster than an HPWC, some barely over 1X. (vs 6x with the upcoming 120KW Superchargers). I know it's hard to remember this while sitting at a charge station that takes 16 hours to charge up while next to it is a CHAdeMO station that would fill you up in 2 hours (I've been there) but that's why I think demanding that 80Amp charge stations rather than the current 30A stations would in the end be more helpful for more people.
2. Creating an adapter is expensive, and a PITA.
3. They would give credibility to a very inferior standard and unfortunately many times credibility will chose a winner over a superior standard. I'll point out here that Tesla's connectors can supply almost 2x the MAXIMUM energy that either CHAdeMO or the SAE plugs can, which are all really limited by their max current as the voltages are set by the battery pack charge level (200A vs 350A+).
Also for those that want a little more detail on how a charge session runs via CHAdeMO, here are my notes (snagged long ago from online sources):
1- Signal to start sent from charger to car
2- CAN bus data sent from car to charger indicating target charge voltage and capacity of pack
3- CAN bus data sent form charger to car indicating max current and voltage available
4- Car verifies compatibility and then sends ok to start charging.
5- Charger confirms start then car closed relay and commences sending voltage and current targets for charger to run.
6- Charger follows the voltage and current commands of the car. the car meanwhile is checking on pack status. If the car wants to stop it sends a zero current signal to the charger. On confirmation of zero current it then removes the ok to start charging.
7- Charger terminates charge cycle.
Peter
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Jul 24, 2013
qwk i guess I'm confused. The onboard 10KW charger has absolutely nothing to do with DC charging, and never will.�
Jul 24, 2013
rlang59 I think what he means is the CAN bus interface to the charger would already be in the Euro spec cars. That would mean you would just need an adapter with no intelligence to it.
�
Jul 24, 2013
Laumb You and "everybody" Keep saying that.
I know the chargers' main purpose is to handle conversion of power from AC to DC (but then again, Personal Computers weren't made to watch high def porn In the 80s - times change..)
My point is, the onboard charger has 2 functions:
1. It converts AC to DC and charges the battery.
2. It Communicates with the EVSE/HPWC to discuss how much power is available and what to do with it.
The superchargers and CHAdeMO chargers needs to Communicate with the car to do its Job:
1. Hello car! Could you please Flip the switch so that current from pin A and B Are directly connected to the battery?
2. Ehm... Car? What size battery do you have? What is the current SOC and could you please send me a ramp-up/-down schedule for charging?
As the onboard charger currently is connected to the charge ports physical communicative pins, there is no need to try and Communicate to another device In the car. Therefore I find it reasonable that the charger unit (unit = consists of several modules that each performs a different task than another) has a communications module (= hardware for a function In a unit) that handles the handshaking for both AC and DC. This unit could be designed for talking to a CHAdeMO station on EU units - thus removing the need for more than a plastic/dumb adaptor for CHAdeMO charging.�
Jul 24, 2013
TurboFroggy Some clarification on the whole charging process and what controls what. The entire charging process (and discharging process) is controlled by the Battery Management System (BMS). The BMS controls the onboard charger(s) though the CAN bus. The chargers themselves talk J1772 protocol to the charge port to figure out the maximum allowed draw from the EVSE. The BMS just instructs the chargers to charge constant current or constant voltage up to a certain amount of voltage and amperage. The BMS also is aware of the type of connection that is available, be it AC on a J1772, HPWC, UMC etc, or DC from a Supercharger or Chademo adapter. The BMS in the AC mode controls the onboard chargers, in DC mode, it controls the external chargers, be it the Supercharger or Chademo. If a DC connection is detected, the BMS will switch the battery-charger-port contactor to switch to battery > port, in AC mode, it is battery > charger. The BMS in the car fully and frequently (every 100ms) communicates with the external DC charger and controls it's output, in no way does the external Supercharger or Chademo charger have any say over what goes into the battery, that is up to the BMS. This is how every modern EV that has AC/DC charging works, Model S, Nissan Leaf or Mitsubishi I, they all work the same way.
The Chademo > Model S will require that the Model S's BMS be able to talk CAN bus or will require a CAN bus to Supercharger protocol conversion. The DC going from the Chademo station is fully compatible with the volts/amps that the Model S's battery pack can charge with. The protocol conversion as well as all the various pin timing/switching in the Chademo plug will all need to be satisfied with the adapter. And no way this adapter will be any less than $1500, Tesla charges $650 for a Roadster HPC > Model S adapter and it is just a simple straight through cable.�
Jul 24, 2013
arg If building in very small quantity, Nissan dealers advertise the inlet connector with a wiring loom conveniently attached for about $730 - part 296B13NA1A. I haven't actually tried buying one...�
Jul 24, 2013
qwk There is a high voltage junction box I between the charger and charging port. The switching occurs there.�
Jul 29, 2013
FairFrank Depends on your definition of the standard. Funny to see that a >90% majority of DC fastloaders in NL, D, and B are CHAdeMO. And the market defines the standard. Reason to refer to Video2000.
Reason why Tesla is working on an adaptor solution:
...
There has been a long standing discussion in regards of the CHAdeMo adapters and I can only speak for Tesla in regards of this, we are currently trying to find a solution for the CHAdeMo adapter and hopefully we can put something in place by the end of the year, please be rest assured that we are working on this. Once this has been completed we will communicate this via our website.
...
- - - Updated - - -
Any idea how many CHAdeMO DC fastchargers are ALLREADY build?
It is going to be a Betamax, VHS, Video2000 makeover, unless Tesla decides to do what they promised me today:
... "There has been a long standing discussion in regards of the CHAdeMo adapters and I can only speak for Tesla in regards of this, we are currently trying to find a solution for the CHAdeMo adapter and hopefully we can put something in place by the end of the year, please be rest assured that we are working on this. Once this has been completed we will communicate this via our website."...�
Jul 29, 2013
Laumb All I know is "over 60" In Norway.
Someone else might know the real answer though.�
Jul 29, 2013
jkirkebo Yeah, 60-70 single port chargers. Tesla builds 6-10 port stations, though it seems only half will be active at the start. So around 24 ports operational next month. My guess is Tesla ports will outnumber CHAdeMO ports sometime next year.�
Jul 31, 2013
wycolo > All I know is "over 60" In Norway. [Laumb]
Anyone know how to overlay a map of Norway. for example, over a map of N. America with the same exact scale so we can get a sense of size comparison. IOW driving from Lapland to Bergen, is that like Portland, ME to Mobile, AL or what? Not a PhotoShop user but I've looked into Elements re overlays - to no avail. If someone has worked this out it would help greatly with these geopolitical issues. Sorry for the OT; now back to our regularly scheduled program.
--�
Aug 1, 2013
gregincal 
All of Norway is big, but I don't imagine there's much charging infrastructure in the north (nor likely to be anytime soon). Southern Norway is quite manageable in terms of driving distances.�
Aug 1, 2013
VolkerP I like the Strait of New England, as well as the Florida Sund.�
Aug 2, 2013
brianman "This just in, Norway invades North America."
"You mean the Norwegian military?"
"No, the whole freaking continent!"�
Aug 2, 2013
Laumb
All I see is Oslo on the same height as Florida. Should provide me nice weather all year.�
Aug 2, 2013
hiroshiy "tropical Oslo"�
Aug 2, 2013
Yuri_G Norway is not nearly that big. That map projection stretches bodies in the north and south. Norway has about the same area as Montana to give some perspective.�
Aug 2, 2013
wycolo Wow! Scandinavian tumescence: always happy to see the USA! :biggrin:
Canadian-level Mercatoring renders bloatation to the extreme. But if you could choose 2 cities on each map that have the same official distance separating them, then you could adjust map sizes to get them roughly equal. The side by side presentation actually works rather well. Can an APP for this be coming soon?
--�
Aug 2, 2013
jkirkebo Yeah, we're not big on area, but a weekend drive from the south to the north-east will be around 1750 miles�
Aug 2, 2013
deonb Does that really count though
I'm always amused how the European rail system (for purpose of calculating fares) do not consider Norway and Finland to be neighboring countries, so everybody thinks that "Real Norway" pretty much ends at the northern Swedish border�
Aug 2, 2013
rdrcrmatt So I sent Tesla an email today on their "Contact us" section of their website asking about the CHAdeMO adapter. They said there were no plans to make one for North America because of issues with t he CHAdeMO chargers potentially being able to override the Model S's internal charging safety systems.
bummer. Just dropping this in the CHAdeMO threads...�
Aug 2, 2013
deonb
Doesn't make sense.
Does this mean Tesla is going to pull the Model S from the Japanese market? Or that they are somewhat ok with overriding the internal charging safety systems on Japanese vehicles but not on American vehicles?�
Aug 2, 2013
JakeP I was talking to the folks at Eaton yesterday, and admiring their 50kW DC Fast Charger that I cannot use for lack of a CHAdeMO adapter, and their comment was simply "you should let us make you an adapter".�
Aug 2, 2013
gregincal The only way I can make it make sense is that they discovered an issue with Chademo and the current battery management system that can't be fixed with a software update, and there is an upgraded one in the european (and will be used for the Japanese) cars. We'll see though. We've had people report a lot of things Tesla told them that turned out not to be true.�
Aug 2, 2013
PhilBa @rdrcrmatt There is nothing surprising about getting contradictory messages from Tesla, they are really good at it. I wouldn't be surprised if that's an old message - I doubt the people that answer the website inquiries are on the cutting edge of developments within Tesla.�
Aug 2, 2013
100thMonkey um, I'd say, OK, how much!?�
Aug 2, 2013
JakeP I immediately said "I heard they were supposedly very expensive to make", but got no response to this. If not for fears of voiding my warranty, I might explore this further, especially if CHAdeMO starts popping up all over PA.�
Aug 15, 2013
NoMoGas Methinks it should be explored and presented to Tesla... id be very curious to see cost.�
Aug 15, 2013
stopcrazypp The Japanese models likely will have some differences with the US market ones made so far. For one they will be RHD.
I think what they might have is an independent CAN bus for charging in the car (which likely doesn't exist in the current Model S made so far) and that would simplify the adapter. If it connects directly with the car's main CAN bus then that's definitely a security issue.
I'm pretty sure the engineers at Tesla have a very good idea of the costs and challenges associated with this. They just aren't ready to go public with that discussion (although there have been off the record talks that mentioned the challenges of the CHAdeMO adapter).�
Aug 16, 2013
hiroshiy FYI Japan launch (both LHD and RHD) is delayed until March-June 2014.�
Aug 21, 2013
miimura Wow. I thought you guys would have seen this at Plugincars.com
�
Aug 21, 2013
sublimaze1 good find miimura ... now, somebody needs to go some additional explaining ... Even thought the Superchargers are popping up in Texas now, if I want to go anywhere outside the state with minimal limitations (at least in the next 18-24 months) this is cruicial.�
Aug 21, 2013
widodh Very interesting! Can't wait until they officially announce something.�
Aug 21, 2013
100thMonkey fingers crossed!�
Feb 19, 2014
medved I know about an estimate from a Tesla employee. He said that the European CHAdeMO adapter might be available from April/May. The new chargers will have also Type 2 cable. So for the new charges you might not even need the adapter. Here is one from a french manufacturer:
�
Feb 19, 2014
Kratus Yes, but the type 2 plug will only deliver AC.�
Feb 19, 2014
Mario Kadastik Exactly, the AC will only deliver 11-22kW (depending if you have single or dual chargers) while the CHAdeMO will deliver ~45-50kW. That's a huge difference in charging speed (40 km/h vs 80km/h vs ~200km/h).�
May 27, 2014
FairFrank Bad sign
The CHAdeMO silence is a bad sign....
The 11 / 22 kW AC charger seriously limit versatile use of our FEVs.
If a CHAdeMO => Mennekes type 2 adaptor is that complex (which I can imagine), why not implementing a CHAdeMO slot behind the rear right light? See BMW and Mitsubishi with their double slots instead of adaptors....�
May 27, 2014
dirkhh Problem with that: only benefits new cars. Adapter works for all of us�
May 27, 2014
stopcrazypp Will it even fit there? I heard the size of the CHAdeMO socket is an issue too. At this point, I don't think adding a socket would be any quicker than doing this adapter.�
May 27, 2014
FairFrank Thank you for your responses. I guess you both have valid arguments.
Size does matter... and I don't know whether this a killing argument or not.
However, a complete new rear light unit (incl. socket) can also be refitted. As long as it fits ofcourse.
But you are probably right the adaptor will be a quicker fit. Time will tell.�
May 27, 2014
DaveT I've heard that Tesla is testing Chademo adapters with some beta testers right now.�
May 27, 2014
DJ Frustration I have a suspicion that the Chademo adapter will be released soon. The Plugshare guy who drove 12k miles in the epic road trip was caught using one at a Nissan dealership but then word got out and the photo with the adapter was edited to remove it. That tells me there's some sort of beta program that Tesla is running with select individuals. If that's the case, it shouldn't be much longer before the adapter is released.�
May 27, 2014
GSP Why all the secrecy? Tesla has announced their CHAdeMo adaptor. Editing photos to eliminate the adaptor seems extreme to me.
GSP�
May 27, 2014
DJ Frustration Probably because the guy likely signed a nondisclosure agreement in order to be a tester. By posting a photo of it, in all probability, he was violating the NDA. Of note, it was the guy who removed the adapter in the pic on his own and not because Tesla came down on him. However, you never really know.�
May 27, 2014
stopcrazypp Sounds plausible. The guy probably just wanted to preempt any legal trouble he might get into with that picture. It could also be possible for Tesla to send him a C&D letter, but I don't see them doing something like that for something so minor.�
May 27, 2014
Johan With the rapid expansion of the SC network in both the US and EU I think there will be much less demand. I know 4 months ago I KNEW I needed the adaptor, now I'm not so sure. It's expensive.�
May 27, 2014
scottf200 Still some empty space where I'd like to travel. TN has a lot of them because it is where the LEAF is built.
�
May 27, 2014
caddieo I'm one of those who'll jump in once the adapter is available. Even by the end of 2015, there will still be a lot of empty spots in TN, KY, IN or rural IL if you try to make a bee-line between NE Florida and Chicago but I know that even now, the Plugshare app shows a fair amount of CHAdeMO stations along that direction. Why lengthen the trip by going up to MD and then cutting across to IL?�
May 27, 2014
Doug_G They can't release them because then Canadians would be able to use Level III.
�
May 27, 2014
GuyHall shared CHAdeMO adapter
if I can find the right model, I'm thinking about purchasing a chademo adapter for shared use by Sacramento region Tesla drivers. Has everyone else considered a model to share the cost? Our am i going to be noted as being silly for worrying about something that cost only about 1% of the cost of the car?
As a Tesla driver would you be interested in a shared regional ownership model of a charger? Or do you see that being too complex or problematic? What kind of sharing model, if any, would make sense to you?
Guy�
May 27, 2014
dirkhh Oh Canadians can use Level III chargers. They just have to drive to the US to do so...
/me hides�
May 27, 2014
SteveW25561 I've always thought it would be a nice touch if Tesla service centers and/or galleries would RENT out a CHAdeMo adapter (taking a credit card swipe in case it's not returned, etc). At the proposed price, it really doesn't make sense for an individual user to buy the adapter if they don't travel along CHAdeMo routes often. By renting out these adapters as needed, Tesla can make an even clearer statement that the Model S can realistically do road trips on more routes.�
May 27, 2014
ThortsMD +1000�
May 27, 2014
peterspd Today, I received Tesla response about CHAdeMO adapter status:
Thank you for contacting Tesla Motors. Unfortunately, we do not have an update available for you at this time. We apologize for the inconvenience and we will be sure to contact you as soon as it is available.
Best,�
May 27, 2014
gg_got_a_tesla I see what you did there.�
May 27, 2014
slyastro So true Doug ... !!!!!!�
May 27, 2014
TonyWilliams If the Service Centers don't rent these out, we will. They will be UPS shipped to you at the start of your trip, then either keep it or return it for a refund, less the rental amount.�
May 28, 2014
FLDarren +1
I plan on going to Kentucky soon and it would be nice to rent the adapter. After this trip the superchargers should be in place before I go there again. So renting makes perfect sense.�
May 28, 2014
gglockner I have thought about this. You could start a business where you rent out CHAdeMO adaptors. Alternately, you could find a few friends in your area and jointly purchase one or two to share.�
May 29, 2014
David99 Best would be to place these adapters at the CHAdeMo stations. That's the only place where they are needed. I know this is not going to happen as they can't be secured there. Honestly this whole situation with the different charging standards and networks is ridiculous and a big annoyance.�
May 29, 2014
medved 15 more CHAdeMo chargers opened
15 more CHAdeMo chargers have been opened recently in Slovakia. All by private funding, without any government support. And they are all free to use without any card or authorization. If only the adapter was available, finally :cursing:. That would make the travel across the country so simple. But sometimes I feel like the Supercharger might come sooner than the CHAdeMo adapter.
The event was held at the Greenway battery swap station.�
Jun 1, 2014
BobbyM5 This looks like one in the wild Twitter / CharlesThieret: @TeslaMotors Glad to see that ...�
Jun 1, 2014
aaronw That makes much more sense to me. I could see renting a ChaDeMo adapter once in a while for a road trip but otherwise I can't justify the $1000 price tag. I certainly would go in to a pool in the SF Bay Area.
-Aaron�
Jun 1, 2014
invisik 
The above tweet
Come on Tesla, at least tell us it's in testing or something....
-m�
Jun 1, 2014
stopcrazypp If you look back a bit in this thread, there's evidence that Tesla is doing beta testing right now. So hopefully release is approaching.�
Jun 3, 2014
AmpedRealtor That's one ugly adapter...�
Jun 3, 2014
dasRad Indeed it is, and I'd like to think that any design engineer with a sense of aesthetics would tell the design group to go away and come up with something at least half decently elegant.
The J1772 adapter provided with each Model S is an elegant solution to problem; the CHAdeMo adapter looks like it is a collection of parts found lying around a test bench.�
Jun 3, 2014
markb1 The J1772 adapter is much simpler. They presumably had to make the CHAdeMo adapter much bulkier because it's much more complicated, and they had to make sure the added bulk didn't put too much force on the charge port and break it. Could they have made it more elegant? Maybe, but how?�
Jun 3, 2014
Doug_G It's in beta testing.�
Jun 3, 2014
trigga71 The CHAdeMo is much larger than the J1772 and the Tesla plug. The J1772 is a straight adapter just moving the pins where it needs them and both are similar in size keeping the adapter small. The CHAdeMo adapter seems a bit more involved and just a guess on my part is it makes the Model S believe its at a Supercharger not a CHAdeMo charger. Thats why you need Supercharging enabled and given just the size and weight of the CHAdeMo connector, the adapter would be larger as well. It would be nice to have a small adapter like the J1772 but right now I'd rather have it cheaper. For the 40kwh owners its sad they can't use the CHAdeMo chargers�
Jun 3, 2014
Cosmacelf It is tough because the part that plugs into the car has to have a very thick cable - about as thick as a Supercharger cable. So they could have made the car cable be about 5' long so that the adapter (which needs to be that big) could rest on the ground. But that would have made the whole adapter much more unwieldy. A cable that thick doesn't bend very well and is heavy. Bottom line, with current technology, any Chademo adapter was going to big and bulky.�
Jun 3, 2014
AmpedRealtor I wish they could have made it look less like a gas pump nozzle.�
Jun 4, 2014
medved I couldn't give a flying monkey about the looks, just give it to me, finally.
BTW, what's the difference between the thread 'CHAdeMO Adapter' and the thread 'Tesla CHAdeMo Update'?�
Jun 4, 2014
dpeilow I heard a rumor that the adapter has been totally redesigned.�
Jun 4, 2014
caddieo Either way, I'm in line for one.�
Jun 4, 2014
Chipper delete�
Jun 4, 2014
Cosmacelf From who? Credible?�
Jun 4, 2014
stopcrazypp Just inside or does it involve the outside looks too? The adapters that have been caught "in the wild" supposedly beta testing look just like the it did when it was announced.�
Jun 6, 2014
tesltoronto anyone knows when this will be available? I see coming soon, still.�
Jun 6, 2014
dsm363 Nobody knows for certain but it looks like it is being beta tested.�
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