Nov 23, 2012
richkae Has anyone made the point yet that other manufacturers change their prices ( MSRP ) every year, but that they constantly manipulate the prices by fiddling with their dealer incentives?
Tesla is completely different, because there is no MSRP/dealer shenanigans - and they have a preorder queue 9-12 months long. Any price change they want to make - they have to announce 9-12 months ahead of time, for everyone entering the queue in the future and getting their car 9-12 months from now.
If you expect the prices to change every year ( I do ), then they are overdue to announce new pricing.�
Nov 23, 2012
ckessel I guess that's what I was thinking would be verboten, perhaps leading to a shareholder lawsuit or some such.�
Nov 23, 2012
jerry33 The shareholders might sue, but that doesn't make it illegal (just kind of stupid).�
Nov 23, 2012
jomo25 Well, I guess I'd need to hear more details, but base don what's been published, this would seem to negatively impact early reservation holders MORE than late reservations. For example (my case), I'm P4398. I reserved I guess about 18 months ago. I received the "Finalize" email about 3 months ago now. But for a variety of reasons, I'm not ready to finalize. For one, I'm still working with my HOA on getting a charging station in our underground garage. I'm the only EV owner in our 100 unit condo with my Volt. But since that can use gas, I didn't need a EV station for that. But I can't buy a pure EV unless I have a real solution at home. It's taking a long time with the board, and they haven't given the go ahead yet.
But also, I have yet to be able to test drive the S. I was out of town on vacation when the Get Amped Tour stopped by in Scottsdale. And as much as I wanted, I couldn't travel to any of the other locations for the weekends they occurred. Scottsdale doesn't have a test drive car yet, even when they said they would in the "September" time frame. That became "October". Then "November". I figured it was because of the slow ramp. But now I called my S Sales agent and he told me that they can't do test drives in AZ due to the law that forbids them from selling as a dealership in AZ (among other states). They said the Amped tour stop in AZ was done under a "special" license (if they knew this issue all along, then they should have been more forthright with me when I asked multiple times about test drives in Scottsdale previously, but that's a different complaint).
As many awards and as much confidence I have in the great ride that the S is, I simply cannot buy a $75K car without an actual drive. Between that and the HOA situation, I can't commit now.
Based on the limited massaging thus far, I can imagine that as a reservation holder whose number has come up, I'll be given a "fair and pre-determined" 30 days to finalize to keep the original pricing. Whereas reservation holder #P10000, whose time hasn't come yet, will have 30 days beyond his time is called. So, he in effect has a longer time to keep the pricing.
I would hope that what is announced is that EVERY current reservation holder has until 30 days after that latest current P number is called to keep the pricing. Otherwise, I may as well drop my P4398 and resubmit the $5K to move to the end of the line. Of course, I won't know that until the announcement, by which time it might be too late to do what I just proposed and keep the pricing.
So, while I agree that all communication, bad or good, is welcome, I still feel like we need more clarification on what will happen, before the window to keep the current pricing is closed.�
Nov 23, 2012
AnOutsider But Jomo, 30 days is more than enough time to find a test drive, is it not? If you can't, or the issues with your HOA drag on for another 8 months or so, can you really blame tesla for not wanting to stick around waiting?�
Nov 23, 2012
jomo25 I don't blame them for the HOA issue. Clearly, that's my own. But no, 30 days is apparently not enough to get a test drive. Tesla's solution for me to get a test drive now is officially "so, when can you go to a store in California?" Sorry, I dont have any plans to go to CA in the next 30 days. I might have had a chance previously if they didn't string me along and tell me that the Scottsdale store was going to be able to do test drives in September, then October, then November, then "we're not sure".
Anyways, as I said, I'll probably opt for the end of the line if I can still do that and lock myself into the original pricing. Otherwise, I'd be willing to swap with someone in the P12K range if they'd let me. I'm concerned they'll call the cutoff line for the original pricing the moment they announce all the details, in which case, I can't just go to the end of the line.
I'll wait for them to give more details (from them directly) and call my sales agent to discuss realistic options. I'm assuming they'll be the usually stand-up company they are and work with me on a resolution -- be it allow me to move (I also have a Model X reservation, which I'll happily move to the end of the S line if need be) or allow me to swap with someone. But I do want them to see that if they implement the policy as it's been described (in limited second hand fashion thus far), it hurts early reservationists more than those who joined the party later.�
Nov 23, 2012
Jackyche i for one am very disappointed at the price increase. i'm not upset, i full recognize their right to change pricing, just very disappointed.
even though my number has been called up, i'm waiting for a couple of reasons. 1)i want to see what the 60kwh battery can do and 2)there's no supercharging station in WA and i see no reason to fork over $2k for that just yet
i'm disappointed now (even though i don't even know the details of the price increase yet) because I see Nissan leaf INCREASED their range and LOWERED their price of 2013 model. That's a biggie. I was upset about the $2k charge for supercharger access (that's a different thread, I know) that I'll use like twice in a year.
Anyways, the whole theory about EV's was that battery costs would decrease year over year but I guess not. I just hope it doesn't turn into a Roadster thing where the price went from $95k to $150k (give or take) in 3 years.
I know it doesn't really affect me other than I may forfeit my spot and my old price. But still, very disappointing in light of Nissan lowering leaf price. Very disappointed.�
Nov 23, 2012
dsm363 I believe the prices you are quoting for the Roadster don't reflect the absolute minimum price. I think it went from low 90s to $109k as the base price. $150k would be a Roadster sport with some options.
Getting Supercharger access is a tough call. They say they'll build out the network so if you plan to keep the car for many years and think it will come in handy, might be worth getting.�
Nov 23, 2012
hcsharp Many economists would argue that raising prices in anticipation of demand exceeding supply will ultimately benefit everybody. It will help those with enough money to buy in the short term to get their cars sooner. It will help lower prices in the long run because higher current prices will encourage more competition as other automakers accelerate plans to enter the market to take advantage of greater profit margins. More R & D and competition will eventually bring prices down.�
Nov 24, 2012
jcstp As said before, price raise is for people who have not reserved at the time of announcement!
Everyone else has time at the time of announcement to decide if they are better of with the priceincrease or not
If not you can cancel or place an order within 30 days after the announcement!
Date or schedule of the announcement : To be determined
all the rest is speculation and just getting stressed about nothing
It's "just" a car, and you are not going to die if you decide not to continue the puchase!
You are just going to be disapointed!
My priceincrease possibilities & time of announcement :
price announced when reaching reservations for june-august delivery 2013 or deliveries in 2014
priceincrease due to experience with current reservations (ex 90% of 60kw takes supercharging -> making it standard simplifies production, but increases price = 90% of people will see no difference in price after reservation)
same annalogy with probably other options or services�
Nov 24, 2012
Bardlebee Well I am hoping this price increase will facilitate the possibility of the Model X being cheaper... may cause me to go reserve that one instead. If not I will sit on my stock and finish paying off my house and wait for GenIII as I don't imagine myself wanting to financing to much of the car.�
Nov 24, 2012
JRP3 I was thinking the opposite. If the S goes up in price, the X will likely as well.�
Nov 24, 2012
aviators99 This is a really good point, and does show a flaw in the plan whereby those who need to defer are better off if they are a later reservation holder! Any situation where it's better to cancel your reservation and go to the end of the line has a problem. I can't think of a solution that works for everyone, however.�
Nov 24, 2012
jerry33 Based on the wording, it seems as if they just might add some things that won't be available with the non-price-increased car. So you'll have to decide if you want the extra goodies and will take the price increase or if you can do without. A speculation example: Adding folding mirrors, heated cloth seats, parking sensors, etc. as options but only with the price increased car, could be a hard decision for some folks.�
Nov 24, 2012
contaygious I doubt there are new features with the price increase. If there are then it would have been made more clear as a way to justify it.�
Nov 24, 2012
jerry33 They haven't been particularly clear about things like that in the past. I took "This price increase is planned to be announced with full details, effective dates, pricing and options packages" to mean that there was the possibility of new options in addition to the changed options mentioned in the previous paragraphs.�
Nov 24, 2012
Trnsl8r This part: "some things that are currently considered standard equipment may become part of an optional package going forward" sounds to me more like they're shuffling existing features around, rather than adding new ones.�
Nov 24, 2012
Bardlebee This may turn out to be more beneficial honestly, I don't need a HD backup camera. My eyes display in HD.�
Nov 24, 2012
DouglasR I haven't seen this discussed, but do you think the new prices will be announced along with a future effective date, e.g., "the new price will be x, to take effect 30 days from today"? Or do you think the new prices will take effect immediately? I'm talking about the prices for those who have not yet reserved.�
Nov 24, 2012
jerry33 "The price increase will not apply to anyone with an existing reservation prior to the effective date of the price increase". Indicates the price increase will affect anyone who hasn't reserved. Presumably the announcement will give an effective date. How far in the future that date will be is anyone's guess.�
Nov 24, 2012
DouglasR If the increase has a future effective date, then it will NOT affect people who reserve after the announcement but before the effective date. But I guess we don't know whether it will have a future effective date, and if so, how far into the future that date will be.�
Nov 24, 2012
Grendal The announcement said "This price increase is planned to be announced with full details, effective dates, pricing and options packages in the next two to three weeks." I think the phase "effective dates" says that they are giving people the opportunity to purchase at the current price. Otherwise they would have said that there will be a price increase announced in the next two to three weeks and buy now.
I also think that reservation holders should be given 90 days to finalize and lock in the old pricing. That seems like a reasonable time frame to lock in.�
Nov 24, 2012
jcstp
thought this could relativate price-increases�
Nov 24, 2012
kendallpb I'm glad you quoted this, and I agree. I fear some disappointment, though. It's explicit that some standard things "may" become part of an optional package, but I've seen comments that seem to read it the other way, too. I don't see any implication that anything optional might become standard, however.
I wonder if the price increase will be modest and some of the "increase" may come from turning standard things into options, but I'm not sure what kinds of things would make sense to turn into options. Maybe a few of the convenience features, or the door handles, might shift into the tech package?�
Nov 25, 2012
brianman Thanks for the video post, jcstp.
Amusing enough to note in text form:
�
Nov 25, 2012
Shorty Look at the upside. If you already own a car or are on the reservation list (and plan to finalize your order when available) then your car just became more valuable!�
Nov 25, 2012
Rodolfo Paiz And if you're on the fence about buying a Model S, then reserving a car right now will ensure that you don't get hit with the price increase at all. You can always cancel your reservation later if you decide not to buy.�
Nov 25, 2012
mulder1231 I also wonder if making standard equipment optional could mean a lower entry price for the Model S. Or the quote could refer to the standard grey 21" wheels on the Performance becoming optional (or rather at extra cost vs standard).�
Nov 25, 2012
DouglasR I didn't think there was much that could be made optional on the base Model S. Steering wheel?�
Nov 25, 2012
Jeeps17 Hilarious!
I do wonder what they would have said about the Tesla battery pricing... :biggrin:
Although, compared to the Porsche 22K offering, the Tesla HP charger is a steal!�
Nov 25, 2012
brianman Bing cache of the specs page from 11/14/2012:
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=http%3a%2f%2fwww.teslamotors.com%2fmodels%2fspecs&d=4526011584022709&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=apYBXBDgDPEKMU8zQtvcJBpeO50lXwgq
Some candidates for optional items:
- LED daytime running lights
- power adjustable front seats
- Flash memory storage for up to 500 songs.
- Bluetooth wireless technology for hands-free calling and streaming music
- Tire pressure monitoring system
- dual zone temperature settings
�
Nov 25, 2012
PopSmith I believe TPMS is required by federal law on all vehicles (weighing <10,000 lbs.) as of MY 2006.
See here.�
Nov 25, 2012
kendallpb Interesting ideas. I could see the running lights (hate 'em), flash for songs, or dual zone be pushed into the tech package, and maybe Bluetooth being included with several packages but not the base (though IMHO that would be foolish). But I can't see power adjustable seats, or tire pressure monitoring (the latter, based on PopSmith's reply), being made optional. For the seats, they'd have to make two ways to do this and I doubt they'd want to reengineer the whole front cabin like that. It's a pretty major change compared to the other things, IMHO.�
Nov 26, 2012
RDoc Make Supercharging for 85 kwh cars optional?
The other things people are proposing are certainly possible, but I'm not sure that trying to sell a top of the market priced car with lots of nickle and dime options is a very wise idea. Apart from annoying people, it means the number of configurations and consequent manufacturing problems rises considerably.�
Nov 26, 2012
NeverEnough Perhaps they will move Bluetooth calling with the Tech Package and Bluetooth stereo with the Audio Package.
There aren't many ways to incentivize the Audio Package any further than it already is, so I could see the advantage of moving Bluetooth Stereo (and maybe calling too) to the Audio Package. To me, BT stereo is a must-have.�
Nov 26, 2012
tdiggity I think they're going to separate out heated seats. $500 option.
I also noticed on the bulletin board that they have a defensively written article about what comes with the perf package. I bet some of those will be making their way as al a carte options.
Why isn't there a credit for 19" wheels in the Performance Package?
�
Nov 26, 2012
onlinespending I'm a little late to this party, but I figured I'd share my thoughts on this price increase. To put it bluntly I think it sucks. This is especially true in light of the fact that many of us have delayed executing our reservations because Tesla hasn't even given us the opportunity to test drive the lower battery packs or be able to see all options in the flesh. How do you raise prices on people when you haven't even presented them the chance to the see the product they're purchasing?
I understand they're a company, a company in dire need of cash, so I can't fault them for looking out for their livelihood. But what bothers me are all the people that will simultaneously give them a pass for this, yet champion them as an exemplary company for its customer-first attitude. Lets not be delusional here. Tesla is no better or worse than the next guy. Their interests are not mutually aligned with ours. The times Tesla has seemingly gone above and beyond the normal service of its competitors are only due to the fact that they are a fledgling company, needing to build a customer base that stands by them. It's in their own interest. They don't have the recognition or reputation of a BMW (or similar) to stand on. That's not cynicism, that's realism. This is consistent with any new company, regardless of industry. As they become more established, those PR-friendly acts of kindness will begin to become fewer and fewer.
For every time they've done something positively noteworthy, they've done something equally (if not more) upsetting. There was the Roadster price increase. They didn't inform potential reservation holders that the lower battery packs would have decreased performance over the 85 kWh one until they announced pricing late last year (they clearly knew this information prior to that, but made the decision not to disclose that likely in an effort to drum up reservations). They didn't release information and pricing on the mandatory maintenance program until after the car was already being delivered. They were misleading with the SuperCharger cost being included with the 60 kWh. And then there's this Model S price increase in the middle of the game. And that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more. You can defend Tesla all you want, but their track record speaks for itself. They continually mislead and keep its customer's in the dark with regards to important information.
With that said, the Model S is nothing short of an amazing engineering accomplishment and it deserves much of the accolades it's received. The company on the other hand leaves much to be desired.�
Nov 26, 2012
AnOutsider That's assuming the price increase comes before that happens though.�
Nov 26, 2012
Rodolfo Paiz Any new company, especially one with such a high technology component, is going to have some surprises along the way. And they'll conceal some things until they're ready, because total openness would be disastrous to their reputation: some of those things they'll fix, handle, or compensate, and some will end up being bad news. Those who reserve early have a risk that they'll end up being disappointed, or backing out, or that the company will make a change they cannot accept... but they get the reward of getting a car earlier, and they will get a lower price in this case if they reserve before the price increase. On the other hand, those who wait to reserve will pay more and will wait longer (the risk is how much more and how much longer!), but they have the reward of making a choice that is far more based on facts and concrete information.
Tesla must play some cards close to its chest. As you said, they are a company and their first priority is to survive and succeed. We, as committed or potential buyers, must in turn choose our own personal risk/reward preference. But you cannot have it both ways. You want certainty, it's going to cost you. You're willing to take some risks and handle some surprises (certainly not all of them positive), then there's a reward for that too.
No perfect or "right" choice there. But given current supply and demand, and given the depth of the reservation queue, Tesla would be fools not to raise prices.�
Nov 26, 2012
Raffy.Roma I think that Tesla Model S is a very advanced engineering product. Being an electric car in my opinioin Model S is the most advanced car in the world. In this respect I think that the true problem with Model S does not come from the pricing but from the evident contradiction that in spite of being a very advanced engineering product Model S still needs important upgrades useful for comfort and safety (power folding mirrors, parking sensors, AWD, ACC).
So I think that we shouldn't complain with Tesla for the price increase of Model S but we should complain for the necessary upgrades being implemented on Model S as soon as possible.�
Nov 26, 2012
JRP3 For one, they haven't raised any prices yet, and for another, if they want to raise prices for the 2014 model, considering the reservation numbers, they have to do it well in advance.�
Nov 26, 2012
brianman For the record I wasn't recommending any particular exclusions, just listing some that seemed like possibilities.�
Nov 26, 2012
kendallpb I'd buy that in a heartbeat. Is there any technical reason to limit it to the leather package (which I don't want)? My better half's SUV also has leather w/heated seats; is it normally paired like that by traditional carmakers?
- - - Updated - - -
And that it is an across the board base-price hike that will affect the 40 and 60 packs. It might not be that simple....�
Nov 26, 2012
aviators99 I'm somewhat surprised there's not hypotheses of the infotainment screen being an option (or maybe I missed it). Obviously that would be very tough to do, since at present it controls everything, and there are no hard buttons to replace it. But theoretically, it could be replaced by a smaller screen, or even hard buttons.�
Nov 26, 2012
brianman I don't think it would be a cost saving measure for Tesla to do with "S, next revision" with it this far along. It might be for X or Bluestar.�
Nov 26, 2012
bonnie They need to raise the Model S price - Tesla has said publicly that the Model X will be priced similarly to the S. If they don't raise the price, then they're stuck with 2012 prices in 2014. (Because, for instance, there is a certain forum that would go crazy saying 'but you said it would be the same'.) As much as I hate the prices being raised, knowing it will impact the X price (considering y'know), it's only prudent.�
Nov 26, 2012
strider +1 Who says they're even going to increase the price on 40 or 60 packs? I would bet money that the Perf cost will go up but otherwise we don't know anything. If you're nervous then plop down the $5k and wait for the announcement. Once they announce pricing you can pull the trigger on the old pricing, move to the new pricing (maybe they break out some options that you want from options you don't want thereby making the new pricing cheaper), or get a refund. Wild speculation from some on this thread is not productive.�
Nov 26, 2012
brianman And if you're a betting man and have money to be with, put down a reservation now as a profit opportunity.�
Nov 27, 2012
kendallpb Given that the whole car revolves around this screen, I seriously doubt it's practical. I suppose a smaller screen with a scroll bar or something could work, but hard buttons seems very unlikely and kinda against how they approach things. Plus that seems to move away from "Standard-->Optional" and into the realm of adding a new option, which isn't what they said was coming. Anything's possible, but I just can't see this.�
Nov 27, 2012
Jaff Could you please elaborate further on this... what difference do you expect to find between test driving a lower battery pack Model S vs. an 85kwh pack model?
�
Nov 27, 2012
contaygious The lower batteries are slower maybe?�
Nov 27, 2012
strider The smaller packs are not as quick as they can't deliver as much current as the larger packs and that means less power. I assume he would want to test drive a smaller pack to see if the increased performance is worth the extra money even if he doesn't need the range.�
Nov 27, 2012
richkae Anything up to $10,000 for the Model X qualifies as similar to me, thats only 15% more. I dont see why the Model S price needs to change to enable a higher Model X price.�
Nov 27, 2012
nleggatt here's my thoughts re the price increase:
1. yes, they need to increase the price for next year (they are already taking reservations for then - fall of 2013) so they are not stuck selling a car at a year behind price.
2. hopefully it will increase resale as I've known companies who discount cars so much that it kills resale of existing owners vehicles
Now, for what I am really concerned about:
I'm from BC. I'm hoping to get my email in a couple weeks (P244) and praying that my car arrives before April 1st. Why? Because on that date our luxury vehicle tax comes back 3% added to our GST and PST 12%. ADD to that, that we also loose our $5k rebate from the government on April 1st... so that increases the price a-lot... so, if the car arrives on April 2nd I'm paying a ton more for my car.
Therefore, If the email comes Jan 1st and they want me to lock in, and the car is projected to arrive April 2nd, I would have no choice but to defer a few months to save up the difference on the car. BUT, if they only let me defer a month before hitting me with the new price... well, then I'm paying Price Increase + 12% + 3% + $5,000.... for a car I've been waiting for for over 3 years. And like another poster said, people who reserve today get the benefit of being able to save up for 9 months and buy the car at the lower price. It might have been smarter to wait until today to reserve in that case.
My hope is that they say you have to confirm your car by a certain calendar date rather than a number of days after getting the confirmation email. OR, let you defer once up to a certain date.
Just rambling...
�
Nov 27, 2012
onlinespending You've got it.�
Nov 27, 2012
eledille Also consider that the smaller packs will see tougher average usage (more amps per cell). I don't know how that impacts battery life, but I'm sure it doesn't improve it.�
Nov 27, 2012
JRP3 That won't show up in a test drive though :wink:�
Nov 27, 2012
NigelM Ahem! This thread is for discussion on the price increase. Let's not go off on a tangent discussing the merits of pack size.
Thanks.�
Nov 27, 2012
engle My response to the impending price increase is simply to make another $5K Model S reservation in the 15,000 range this week. I already have #4,491 but I can't "finalize" it yet. The simple reason is I'm waiting for the leasing program in the summer of 2013 because it will provide a better tax deduction for my business. Also, I had to replace my leased business vehicle in May earlier this year with a 24 month lease of a 2012 Benz ML 350 Bluetec, since I couldn't wait until Dec. to get a Model S. I don't want excessive payment overlap, and knew I won't want to drive the ICE SUV anymore once I get my Model S except to go to Tahoe in winter. I've already put 10K/24K miles on the Benz to "use up" it's leased miles ASAP. Therefore, I can't lose with this pricing increase, since I won't be forced to "Finalize" to keep the old prices on my new reservation until sometime later in 2013. It is also a "win" for TSLA since they will have another "reservation" to tally for their next quarterly report, and the free $5K loan from me.
I'm very happy to receive their "heads-up" on this price increase. Otherwise, I would have been very annoyed had it come with no warning at all. I'm also in the camp that wouldn't mind paying a higher price (if not crazy) on a Model S Perf. if it means I can order ACC and proximity sensors. These are two options I always get on my Benzes (plus lane keeping assist, brake assist, automatic || parking, etc.), and would really miss those two on the Model S. All the others I can happily live without -- they're just bundled in a Benz option package. I plan to payoff the lease and keep my Model S for a very long time...
Happy Holiday Season to all!
PS. Living in Fremont's Hills, I drive the Mission Blvd to I-880 N exit very often which has a nice view of the Model S shipment staging area. I've noticed more and more vehicles in their classy white covers waiting to be picked-up or shipped. This morning, I saw at least 2 large transporters there being loaded, too. A lot of holiday presents for lucky new Model S owners are on their way!�
Nov 27, 2012
contaygious Sounds like 2,500 base price increase and standard 12 way seats is a rumor.
Model S price increase looming? | Forums | Tesla Motors
"Jbeli444 | NOVEMBER 27, 2012 NEW
Just heard on good authority that the price increase will be announced this afternoon. $2500 on top of the base price. Also, among the changes, 12 way heated seats will be standard on all models."�
Nov 27, 2012
Doug_G Heated seats makes a lot of sense in the base configuration. One of the reasons why the Canadian cars are a little more expensive is that they required all of them to have heated seats.�
Nov 27, 2012
ckessel That number is remarkably close to the cost of 4 years of maintenance...�
Nov 27, 2012
contaygious Ha! Wouldn't that be nice! Not counting on it...�
Nov 28, 2012
jerry33 If that's the case, then that's great. I won't have to spend $1500 on leather seats, and won't have to worry about finalizing too soon.�
Nov 28, 2012
neroden ...and that would deal with the legal issues related to the Warranty Act. That would be an extremely smart move.�
Nov 28, 2012
aviators99 Received this e-mail 30 seconds ago:
�
Nov 28, 2012
sp4rk Price increase timeline
Just got email from TM. Reservation holders; we seem to have 3 weeks to complete our finalize order, from the date we get a second "invitation" (in a few days), or get a price increase.
(I got my first invite but messed up the paperwork after changing my mind after I got papers to sign. Hopefully tomorrow.)
Clock's ticking!!!�
Nov 28, 2012
sp4rk 30 seconds ago?
What are you doing posting on this site at 2am. Worse than me. Only 1am here.
And yes, I got similar email ... mine gave me 3 weeks per my other new thread ... Doug, by all means move my post to this thread. Sorry�
Nov 28, 2012
RyanG I haven't gotten my "time to finalize" email yet (should be in the next batch) but just got the price increase warning email. For me it says I have 4 weeks to finalize after I get the "time to finalize" email.�
Nov 28, 2012
ken830 Mine says four weeks as well.�
Nov 28, 2012
Norbert Since it isn't marked as "confidential", here a *part* of the email:
- - - Updated - - -
It seems to depend on whether you have already received your "Invitation to Configure", or not.�
Nov 28, 2012
tdiggity Here's the email you get if you can't finalize yet.
�
Nov 28, 2012
spatterso911 Same email received!
** Sits back and begins to relax... **�
Nov 28, 2012
sp4rk Ok, it seems several different emails ... so here's the exact context of mine.
You have already received your Invitation to Configure, so you can finalize your order at any time. In order to ensure you have the fully allotted time to finalize your order, you will receive a "second invitation" in the next few days that will begin a new three-week timeline. If you configure your car and finalize your order at any time between now and three weeks after receiving the new invitation, you will not be subject to the price increase.�
Nov 28, 2012
Lyon I just got the email for folks who have already finalized their orders.
"We will be announcing a price increase for Model S in the next few Days. This is out first increase since the introduction of Model S and it is very important that we implement this in a way that recognizes those who already have a Model S reservation. Thank you for completing the configuration process and finalizing your order in a timely manner. We have everything we need to build your Model S and this price increase does not apply to you. Sit back, relax and look forward to the arrival of your Model S."�
Nov 29, 2012
kendallpb I'm curious why your e-mail says "in the next few days" and Norbert's says "in about a month or two." If you don't mind, sp4rk and Norbert, what are your numbers? I'm just wondering if people with lower numbers, i.e., who've have had more time to finalize, are getting less time now, so that folks roughly get a similar length of total time. Just a wild guess (and I'm probably wrong).
(My interest is academic; I finalized a couple of weeks ago, so I got the same e-mail as Lyon.)�
Nov 29, 2012
1young1 My email says I will receive a 2nd invitation "in about a month or two". I have not finalized and my number is P5673.�
Nov 29, 2012
jomo25 Mine says "in about a month or two" also. I'm P4398.�
Nov 29, 2012
Norbert Mine is between the above two (had to defer for various reasons).�
Nov 29, 2012
Alexander I want to see how they change the pricing before I sign. The price increase could be a good thing depending on how they do it... For example, they could break down the Tech Package into individual options, and make the sum of those options more expensive than the current package deal. That would effectively raise prices, while simultaneously giving buyers more choice.
Personally speaking, I wouldn't mind an opportunity to pick and chose specific features. But if Tesla is just going to raise rates without adding additional value, then I'll just finalize my order to lock in the cheaper price. But I hope they release details about the new pricing so I can at least make an informed decision.�
Nov 29, 2012
Alexander I want to see how they change the pricing before I sign. The price increase could be a good thing depending on how they do it... For example, they could break down the Tech Package into individual options, and make the sum of those options more expensive than the current package deal. That would effectively raise prices, while simultaneously giving buyers more choice.
Personally speaking, I wouldn't mind an opportunity to pick and chose specific features. But if Tesla is just going to raise rates without adding additional value, then I'll just finalize my order to lock in the cheaper price. But I hope they release details about the new pricing so I can at least make an informed decision.�
Nov 29, 2012
Brian H @jomo (and others whipsawed by having to defer to await other developments);
another option: make a 2nd reservation now. If your existing window closes before you can finalize, cancel the 1st res. and go with the 2nd. Otherwise, cancel the 2nd one.�
Nov 29, 2012
jerry33 I hope so to. My letter is:
What I don't understand is why mine is "next few days" at P7971 while P4398's letter says "in a month or two".�
Nov 29, 2012
Kraken I just received an email, however my browser won't let me paste into this reply box so I'll summerize.
Current reservation holder (before the price increase) will have 4 weeks to finalize after receiving their finalize emails.
There was nothing about the details of the situation if you defer.
The price increase is expected in the next few days.
Also, it suggest that "depending on when you made your reservation, you will likely receive your email to finalize between now and the end of January". To me that means that they expecct to have every current reservation to the point of finalizing by the end of January (or shortly after). So extrapolating using the 5 months to delivery from finalization, it's possible that they expect to have all current reservations delivered by July. hope so because that is exactly when I was going to be needing a new car!
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I think this was a great example of good communication, because as people hoped, they are giving the timeframe before the actual price increase. This should help those currently at the finalize email make up their decision about whether it will be worth it to jump to the back of the line or not... Granted, they could announce the prices that it is going to before they make it officially in place, and that would really help, but there might be a reason for not doing that...�
Nov 29, 2012
SteveH Isn't it: The price increase will be announced "in a few days". Current reservation holders who have already had an opportunity to finalize will receive a reminder also "in a few days" to finalize that will start the clock to finalize under old pricing. High # reservation holders who have not yet had a chance to finalize will receive an invitation to finalize "in a month or two" that will start their clock to finalize under the old pricing.
?�
Nov 29, 2012
Kraken does the difference between "next few days" and "couple months" has something to do with people who have deferred. I also don't understand why someone who hadn't received an email to finalize (above) recieved an email saying they will receive a second email to "finalize". Maybe you missed the first email to finalize?!
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wow, after re-reading that, I apologize for the horrible grammer... i blame the crappy keyboard of the tablet I'm typing on�
Nov 29, 2012
Enadler Hi all I have been lurking for several weeks now. I am P12991. I received the price increase email stating that I will receive another email between now and the end of January at which point I will have 30 days to finalize. My concern is now I will need to make all my decisions 6 - 7 months before I expect to ale delivery on my S. So many things can happen between February and September.
However, the goods news is that this process may enable me to skip ahead in the line as the email also states that the sequence f production will be determined when the finalzed order s received, not based upon your reservation number.
here is the complete text of the email.
�
Nov 29, 2012
bosgig So 5673 and 4398 got "a month or two", while 7971 and 8189 (me) got "the next few days". I assume there are no deferrals in play here. They shouldn't know what battery we're going with, so that shouldn't matter for this purpose, unless they're monitoring our design studio activity and guessing. . . .�
Nov 29, 2012
Robert.Boston Here's what my version of the letter said:
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Ah, and here's the official email that just went out to the shareholder list:
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Nov 29, 2012
AnOutsider That's reasonable enough�
Nov 29, 2012
AnOutsider Investor email says base price will go to 59,900�
Nov 29, 2012
dsm363 No mention of including the cost of service plan in price of car I guess.�
Nov 29, 2012
bosgig Actually, come to think of it, 5673 and 4398 should be outside of the initial 30-day window at this point, no? When did you get your original "time to finalize" email?�
Nov 29, 2012
NigelM Mod Note: Merged threads as the timeline discussion was developing in both places. Changed title to reflect discussion direction.
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Official notice of dates and pricing:
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Nov 29, 2012
mknox Price Increase
Well, the price increase has been announced... discuss!�
Nov 29, 2012
dsm363 Have option to buy additional 4 year extended warranty now and battery replacement option as well.�
Nov 29, 2012
mknox Oops! Looks like this thread was already started in Ordering, Production & Delivery -- Mods please delete!�
Nov 29, 2012
Rifleman While nobody likes to see prices go up, Tesla is handling perfectly. They are giving plenty of notice, and not asking anyone to pay more than they had planned on when they made their reservation. They are also giving plenty of time for anyone who is on the fence about a reservation to lock in at the old pricing.�
Nov 29, 2012
engle Non-finalized Reservation Holder Very Happy with Price Increase Structuring
As an existing reservation holder (#4,491) who hasn't finalized yet due to two reasons already mentioned in this thread, I'm very happy (also as a TSLA stockholder) with the way Tesla is doing their first Model S price increase.
By giving people a chance to reserve at the old prices by December 31, 2012, they will stimulate many additional reservations in the 4th quarter. At that same time, they are allowing people like me who can't finalize yet to make an additional reservation towards the end of Dec. to get a higher reservation number, which will give us the extra time we need. (In my case, I want to take advantage of their "Summer 2013 leasing program" if the residual value and money factors are reasonable. I'd also like to see the addition of a few new options like ACC and proximity sensors.)
My thanks to GeorgeB and his team for the way you have positioned this price increase, and for being able to bring it in at 1/2 the CPI rate of inflation!�
Nov 29, 2012
NigelM Thanks. New thread started over here: Official-Model-S-Extended-Service-amp-Warranty-Options�
Nov 29, 2012
hj-45 Well, it seems some were correct about the MSP costing more because now with 19" wheels, the new cost of the MSP is the $2500 increase plus $3500 for the lost value of the 21" wheels. Reserving the Performance now saves you $6k.�
Nov 29, 2012
bosgig ". . .the same price set over three and a half years ago. . .A straight 8.75 percent CPI increase would now yield a base price for Model S of $62,400, an increase of $5,000. Tesla is increasing prices only half that amount. . ."
I agree that Tesla is handling this well and that if demand supports it, they're perfectly entitled to a price increase. Really no complaints from me. I will say, though that their positioning is pure corporate spin. They set that price three and a half years ago knowing the car wouldn't be delivered until 2012, and therefore set the price for 2012 deliveries. You couldn't take delivery of a Model S 3 1/2 years ago, so the price never applied to a vehicle then--just vehicles now. Again, not complaining at all, just pointing out that the "logic" is really just public relations positioning.�
Nov 29, 2012
Todd Burch I absolutely agree. I don't think the price increase is unreasonable, but the "first increase in 4 years" is pure propaganda.�
Nov 29, 2012
NigelM Agree. But remember how many people were complaining months ago that "free" service should have been included in a higher price and said they would have been happier if that had happened even though they knew it wasn't "free"? Sometimes consumers want spin.�
Nov 29, 2012
NielsChr I've recived the new prices by email, and find them resonable, prices does increase over time - so does a Tesla
The email does how-ever not mention how the priceincrease influence a performance model (not that it matter for me) but for some future reservation holders it might be importent to know.
Also no word about options - the design studio does not yet reflect the price - I guess it does not since they are not effected before 1/1 2013.�
Nov 29, 2012
JohnQ Must say, as a reservation holder who deferred (P1,491) I'm quite pleased at how Tesla handled this. My deferral was to get the production red paint (Sunset or whatever it's eventually called) and they put the option on the design studio at the same time they announced the increase. I have been given full information in a reasonable time frame and can now hit the finalize button.
Edit: Well, full information with the exception of what the production red will actually look like ... can't rely on the Sunset Red that was at the Get Amped events as the color mix will likely change.�
Nov 29, 2012
jomo25 Based on what I've received from Tesla, I do feel this is reasonable. I was never opposed to the price increase. I think it's fair as prices do need to be updated over time. I was bothered by the potentially short timeline I'd have to finalize before being subjected to the price increase. Through no fault of my own, I have not been able to get a test drive in a reasonable manner, so I was concerned I'd be forced to make an uninformed decision on a very large (and risky) purchase or pay more later.
My reading says I will have until about the end of January to decide now. If that's the case, I think it's just within the bounds of fair. I still hope Tesla can do something more to help those in states where "selling" is not allowed to get test drives. A second set of Amped type drives might be in order if they can get the "special" licenses to do them en masse. I'm sure there are lots more reservation holders now who joined since the original Amped events. And many of them also would not be able to travel to CA.�
Nov 29, 2012
pilotSteve My thoughts are (a) its reasonable in all respects, (b) LOVE the "covers everything but tires for 100,000 miles/8 years for $3900, and (c) non-sig Performance buyers are the BIG winners here!
Pricing comparable cars (same options, 21" wheels, twin chargers, multi coat paint, tech pkg, pano, hpwc, etc. and including the $7500 credit): Sig $91,500, Perf Red $96,500, after 12/31 Perf Red $102,500
I'd be REAL happy to have my fully configured performance S locked in at $6,000 less than 2013 cars. Nice value for early adopters. Wish I'd sprung for perf myself, but oh well.�
Nov 29, 2012
brianman If you mean pre-increase buyers, definitely agreed.�
Nov 29, 2012
ahimberg The 'spin' on price increase over 4 years doesn't really work for what they did for Canadian pricing though, wasn't that just set a few months ago, and now its going up 2600$. Using their math with every 6mo CA pricing going up they get a 10% base increase every year�
Nov 29, 2012
ken830 The new Blog entry is up:�
Nov 29, 2012
NigelM Thanks. Apart from this one, there are also discussions already up on the following threads:
Official-Replacement-Battery-Option
Official-Model-S-Extended-Service-amp-Warranty-Options
Canadian-Pricing-and-Delivery
Heated-seats-standard-with-price-increase�
Nov 29, 2012
strider Jomo,
As more cars hit the streets, I'm sure someone near you would let you drive their Model S unless you're looking to drive a 40 or 60 pack. If you've spent time on TMC you know about as much as the folks in the stores so it's just a matter of getting behind the wheel.�
Nov 29, 2012
Grendal You posted this when the increase was first announced. Now that the actual timeline and pricing are in, will it work for you?�
Nov 29, 2012
KenEE If I read it right you could get a $8000 discount by buying the 40kWh battery now (saving $20k) and purchasing an 85kWh battery later for $12k.�
Nov 29, 2012
Laumb No Ken, the 12k is up front, and my guess, only 85kwh customers gets to buy 85kwh battery replacement.
_____
Tapatalkin' from iTalatut.�
Nov 29, 2012
Rodolfo Paiz Also, note that they'll replace the battery for you "any time after the 8th year" if I recall the wording right, because the idea is that you're locking in your cost to replace the battery when its capacity degrades sufficiently.
Good idea to offer that option: many people will feel more comfortable knowing their future cost for certain. Personally, I'm willing to bet that a new 85 kWh battery will cost me less than $25,000 in eight years... which is about what my $12,000 (today) will be worth then, assuming an average 8% annual rate of return. So I personally wouldn't buy the battery replacement option even if were the kind of person to keep the car for 8-10 years.
In reality, I'm not expecting to keep the car that long anyway. I'm sure they'll offer a four-seat convertible in the Gen-3 series, or a dual-motor AWD Model S, or some other car variant that'll make me trade in my MSP long before 8 years have passed.�
Nov 29, 2012
spatterso911 Not only that, but it's also been discussed that there are hardware and software difference between the models that eliminate the ability to simply drop a larger capacity battery in. It's how they explained why they want you to buy the battery that you really want instead of planning on adding it later.�
Nov 29, 2012
Todd Burch Spatters, I suspect that has more to do with power output (perf vs. non-perf) than capacity. The software side is no problem to update. I can't imagine any barriers to a larger capacity pack such as 120kWh for a car that was originally 85kWh...as the 120 kWh pack's power output can be controlled to match 85 kWh levels.
Disclaimer: I've taken some EE courses....but I am not an EE.�
Nov 29, 2012
yobigd20 I have a completely different view on this. I'm no expert on lithium ion battery costs, but according to the resources I see all over the net, including a statement from Elon Musk himself, the prices of lithium ion batteries should continue to drop significantly year over year, even after accounting for inflation. Why pay $12000 now when it may costs significantly less (especially after adjusting for inflation if you were to put your money elsewhere and let it grow) than that 8 years from now? It doesn't make any sense to me at all why ANYONE would elect for this option now and prepay it. I expect the impact that Tesla is going to have on this industry is going to force many manufacturers to copy their design and result in major competition between lithium ion battery vendors, thus promoting healthy competition and significantly drive the prices for batteries down even further than the current estimations for prices to drop in 8 years. I mean the only thing really would be if batteries prices drop so much but Tesla never passing this savings on to the consumer and instead use that growing spread to increase their profit margins...but I can't see that happening when 8 years from now there will be other major players in the EV industry they'll have to go head to head against to keep their prices competitive.
Declining Lithium-Ion Battery Costs Could Knock Thousands Off the Price of Electric Cars | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building
Cost of Advanced Lithium-Ion Batteries for EVs Dropped 14% Last Year, 30% Since 2009 : TreeHugger
Lithium-ion battery costs will still be about $400/kWh by 2020�
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