Chủ Nhật, 25 tháng 12, 2016

Model S Specifications, Teases and Leaks part 2

  • Sep 23, 2008
    TEG
    Over here, Ze�ev wrote:
    ## "...the Model S..." ��a base price of about $60,000 and get about 240 miles per charge��


    Is it really 240 miles per charge for $60K now?
    Many articles have been showing 160 mile range estimates for the $60K base �S��
    For example, From AutoBlog, & AutoBlogGreen:
    ��The base model is expected to get a 160-mile range for it's $60,000 base price, while 220- or 300-mile options will cost extra..."

    Note - I posted the above question to Tesla's blog and after a few days of 'awaiting moderation', they just deleted it.

    I suppose we will have to wait and see if they do offer 240 miles range for $60K, but it seems for now they are not going to clarify.

    Although they removed my post asking about the 160 vs 240 discrepancy they seem to be allowing other posts to echo the 240 mile number. For instance:

    # Richard C wrote on September 18th, 2008 at 1:25 am
    ## ... I can�t wait to see the first Model S�s coming off the line in two years.
    ## ... At $60,000 that�s still squarely in the luxury range...
    ## ... With a 240-mile range and probably a Roadster-like recharge time...

    So I guess all we can do is assume the 240 mile range is the most current projection and ignore all the older articles that said either 225 mile or 160 mile range. We should also ignore all the old articles that said it would have a 'range extender' device.


    Was this article the source of confusion?
    "...Tesla plans to have its Model S five-seat electric hatchback on sale by 2010 in both the United States and Europe. It will be priced at around $60,000 (�31,800) with a 160-mile range and $68,000 (�36,000) with a 220-mile range, with a 300-mile version to follow..."

    Or this?:
    "...Three models are likely to be available; an entry-level $60,000 (�31k) version with a 160-mile range, a $68,000 (�36k) version with a 220-mile range and a 300-mile version in the future...."

    Riverwired echos Autocar:
    "...According to Autocar, a U.K. site, there will be three models of the S available: a 160-mile range for $60,000; a 220-mile range for $68,000; and a future 300-mile range version that hasn�t had a price pinned on it yet.."

    Bizarre auto-translation at MasterDrive.org:
    "...Three models are in a fair way to require being serviceable; an entry-level $60,000 (�31k) rendering by a 160-mile pass near, a $68,000 (�36k) reading with a 220-mile extent and a 300-mile version in the that demise have being..."

    Nabble.com:
    "...there may be three models:
    1) $60,000 with a 160-mile range
    2) $68,000 with a 220-mile range
    3) To Be Priced 300-mile version..."

    Wikipedia says this:
    "...WhiteStar, will be a sedan known as the Model S. It will cost approximately $60,000 and have a range of 225 miles (362 km) per charge...."
    �
  • Sep 23, 2008
    Kardax
    One annoying thing about all these automotive startups, including Tesla, is that the "truth" seems to be rather flexible. It's really "what's true today".

    Model S is still a long way from production; everything we've seen or heard to date have simple been "goals".

    If the Tesla Roadster is any indication, the true specifications of the vehicle may not be known until months after production begins!

    -Ryan
    �
  • Sep 23, 2008
    Cobos
    I haven't done even close as much research as you TEG but I'm glad more people are picking up on this. If they do end up with a 240 range and $60 000 price I can always hope for a European version with 160miles range and $50 000 price right ? I can hope can't I? I suppose as Kardax says we wont know for sure until after they're sold.

    Cobos
    �
  • Sep 23, 2008
    doug
    I think the confusion stems from the typical marketing doublespeak. The statement, "220 mile range" is made in close proximity to the statement, "$60K base price." The statements on their own may be true, but together they are misleading. The same thing happened with the statements, "3.5 hour charging time." and "Can be charged from a standard outlet."
    �
  • Sep 29, 2008
    TEG
    If true (intentional doublespeak) then that is rather annoying. It sets expectations wrong.

    I see this same sort of thing with many computer web cams. They advertise "30 frames per second AND HDTV resolution", but you find that the 30fps is for low resolution video and the HDTV is basically for still capture only.

    A story about Intentional Ambiguity... Product spec announcements shouldn't be trying to convey "humor and irony".

    I suppose your primary recourse is to stop buying products from companies that try to mislead you, and gravitate towards companies that offer straightforward marketing.
    �
  • Oct 8, 2008
    TEG
    Tesla Model S: 2011 Tesla Model S Electric Sedan To Be Produced In Silicon Valley
    "...Priced around $60,000, capable of 240 miles on a single charge and producing no emissions, the Tesla Model S sedan will begin rolling off its new assembly line in California in late 2010..."

    Tesla Motors - Press Releases
    "...It is expected to have a base price of about $60,000 and get about 240 miles per charge with exceptional performance. The first sedans will likely roll off the assembly line in late 2010..."

    Car news | Tesla Model S | Tesla expands electric vehicle range | by The Car Enthusiast
    "...Tesla's next project is a zero-emission saloon known as Model S. The goals are to provide space for five people and a range of about 240 miles per charge with "exceptional performance". Expect the price to be in the region of $60,000 when production starts in late 2010..."

    Tesla Model S Will be Built in the US ~ Hybrid Car Review
    "...If you're interested in the Model S, it's projected to cost $60,000. Tesla says you will be able to travel 240 miles per charge..."

    (How many ways can they say 240 miles per charge and $60K in the same context?)
    �
  • Oct 8, 2008
    graham
    I dearly hope that they can live up to those numbers.

    And that the car is good looking, and they show it off soon.
    �
  • Oct 8, 2008
    mt2
    And, once again, how many ways can they say 240 miles per charge and $60K in the same context without actually saying the $60k version will get 240 miles per charge?
    �
  • Oct 8, 2008
    TEG
    Well I guess people write straightforward specifications and press releases.
    �
  • Oct 9, 2008
    Kevin Harney
    I don't think that any press releases are written straight forward. They are all avertising spin. What makes it sound the best even if it is stretched and especially if it is stretched.
    �
  • Oct 9, 2008
    Iz
    Does that put an end to the 3 model S range variations? 240 miles is a decent range. I'd like to know about the projected range for a DPTKD (driver, passenger, two kids, dog) loaded vehicle. :biggrin:
    �
  • Oct 9, 2008
    TEG
    Still unclear - I thought the press release was clear - but people keep warning me that press releases sometimes talk about multiple model variants as if they were the same thing. For instance, quoting the price of a base model in the same sentence as features of the premium model.

    cum grano salis
    �
  • Oct 9, 2008
    Iz
    Thanks TEG. TM seems to be taking a prudent approach before releasing photos and full details of model S. The SF Chronicle article link on the TM site has no mention of range. It's a good strategy to silence critics later.

    Perhaps model S will be rolled out along with taking reservations. I often check out the "Reserve" tab to see if model S reservations are being taken.
    �
  • Oct 9, 2008
    graham
    Tesla has said a few times before that current Roadster owners will have first dibs at reserving a Model S. So I assume (possibly bad assumption) that owners will hear about it before they update the Reserve tab. But maybe it just means current owners get sorted to the top of the queue when they open up reservations.
    �
  • Oct 12, 2008
    Iz
    One would think TM unveils Model S with much fanfare. Assuming the first year model run is 10,000 units and also assuming < 20% Roadster owners are interested in a Model S, we should be able to secure one. Do you know if there will be signature versions?
    �
  • Oct 26, 2008
    dpeilow
    Electric Sportscar Maker Deals With Market 'Freefall'

    Also notable for:

    �
  • Oct 26, 2008
    Cobos
    Yeah, there we got that $60k is a 165miles range, while the longer ranges are more expensive... :(

    cobos
    �
  • Oct 27, 2008
    graham
    This is more in line with what we first heard about the Model S, and seems much more feasible/likely than the $60,000 gets you 240 miles.

    Shame on the Tesla upper management for intentionally distorting this in the press releases, and shame on most of the media for not clarifying.

    Assuming this report is accurate, the price per range today is not unreasonable. I hope they can get the Model S out the door quickly. I worry that the current "Mid-2011" date will end up really being late 2011, or early 2012. The longer it takes to come out the less viable this price per range will become as competition comes available. Slipping Model S is probably also slipping Bluestar, both of which need to be a success for Tesla to survive.
    �
  • Oct 28, 2008
    TEG
    Auto 123
    En Fran�ais
    �
  • Oct 28, 2008
    TEG
  • Oct 28, 2008
    graham
    I realize, based on the press releases, Tesla is fueling this "$60k for 240 miles" thing... but it is getting so wide-spread now - if the true answer is $60k for 160 miles and some greater number for the 240, they had better start setting better expectations before Geneva. The press may be unkind otherwise.
    �
  • Oct 28, 2008
    TEG
    * price & range subject to change...

    254679791_2fccad1fc9.jpg
    �
  • Dec 13, 2008
    vfx
    Model S Teases and Leaks

    A place for comments and images from people who have seen the actual car. Quotes too.



    Then a slide show on and we got a sneak peak at a photo of �Model S�. OMG. I don�t usually think of sedans as sexy, but this car is gorgeous. If and when this happens, Tesla will have trouble keeping them in stock at any price point. My family of five might just have to be first in line.

    popup_0844_mz_tesla2.jpg

    Musk insists Tesla's next models will be irresistible. The Model S will go up against formidable competition�cars such as the Lexus GS 450h hybrid, the diesel Mercedes E-class, and the Chevrolet Volt. Not that those cars feature Tesla's neck-snapping acceleration and running cost of 4 cents a mile. "Our sedan will crush everything out there," Musk says.

    Jason Calacanis
    In fact, I�m considering buying a second roadster for my wife and I�m absolutly going to be in the first 10 buyers of the four door. I�ve seen the early designs of the four door and while I can�t give any specific details I can tell you it looks AMAZING! It�s one of the best looking four door cars I�ve ever seen.
    �
  • Dec 13, 2008
    Bob Smith
    Is it a complete running car? Are there any more spy shots of it. If they had a company build it for them something must be out there on it.
    �
  • Dec 13, 2008
    Bob Smith
    Carbon fiber on a $40,000 vehicle?
    �
  • Dec 13, 2008
    TEG
    Huh? $50-60K projected, and said to have an aluminum body. There may be a bit of carbon fiber on the diffuser in back, but not for the whole body.
    �
  • Jan 9, 2009
    NEWDL
    Does anyone know what the deposit is for the model s? I am sure they will take money...assume 5k?
    �
  • Jan 9, 2009
    donauker
    There is no deposit and the only way to get on the list at this time is to order a roadster. It has been stated that roadster owners will get first options at the Model S list.
    �
  • Jan 9, 2009
    graham
    I would not expect Tesla to take orders for the Model S until after it has been officially unveiled.

    There are rumors that they are thinking of unveiling it at the Geneva Motor Show in March, but that may depend on securing the line of credit needed to build the manufacturing line for the S first.

    So maybe March? Maybe later?
    �
  • Jan 9, 2009
    Palpatine
    I was wondering how they would even manage the order list within the Roadster owners that have first dibs. Here is my suggestion once they start taking deposits for Model S.

    Offer a 30 day window to all current Tesla Roadster owners and patiently waiting owners. Within the owner group, everyone gets an "option" on the same number that they have with their Roadster. If they want to get a deposit down for the Model S, it needs to be done within the 30 day window.

    After the close of the 30 day window, all of the empty slots will be removed and the new order determined.

    So if only 50% of the Roadster owners put down a deposit for a Model S, then #1,000 on the Roadster would likely have approximately #500 on the Model S.

    If 75% of the Roadster owners put down a deposit for the Model S, then #1,000 on the Roadster would likely have approximately #750 on the Model S.

    Would that be workable? Or should it just be a free for all rush to wire/fedex deposits to Tesla?
    �
  • Jan 9, 2009
    graham
    That sounds pretty much like how I was envisioning the Model S order list as well. It makes sense.
    �
  • Jan 11, 2009
    donauker
    I haven't seen any recent information on this but the last semi official information I saw indicated that Roadster owners (I would assume in production # sequence) would have priority access to the Model S waiting list. It was also indicated that each owner would be allocated more than one slot and that they would be transferable in a limited and controlled fashion. (Friends and family plan?)
    �
  • Jan 11, 2009
    Palpatine
    That is a great idea. If there were more than one and I could transfer the 2nd or 3rd, I know some friends and family members that would likely an early position on the waiting list.
    �
  • Jan 11, 2009
    graham
    I think someone explicitly asked this question at the Menlo Park store one time I was there (maybe during the TMC meetup? -- which we should do again, btw) and the answer was they planned to have 1 and only 1 slot per Roadster owner.

    But that was a long time ago, and things may well have changed.
    �
  • Jan 11, 2009
    graham
    From a Tesla Motors marketing email sent this evening:

    �
  • Jan 11, 2009
    Sgee
    There is only 1 thing I can say when I hear this. WOW. How many times have they told us this same thing already. Im not trying to be negative but I have been dreaming about this car for the past year. And, it would be nice if we could finally see the finished product of all the hard work, instead of the same stuff we have been hearing.
    �
  • Jan 11, 2009
    dpeilow
    Next couple of months? I guess that rules out Detroit. Hmm... can I make it Geneva in March?
    �
  • Jan 12, 2009
    Iz
    I've been waiting for an EV since first reading about the GM Impact in the mid-90's. Still have the newspaper article.

    "next couple months" is still within the March timeframe. Giving first dibs to roadster owners on first thought is wrong. However, if it were not for them there would be no WhiteStar.

    It will be a very important time in auto history when the Model S order page is made available. Might be an impressive waiting list after several weeks.
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    graham
    Detroit 2009: Tesla CEO drops a few more hints on the Model S - AutoblogGreen

    I thought Geneva was in March... Am I not remembering that correctly? If so, that means they will be showing it before Geneva? Good news!

    Additionally:
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    TEG
    79th International Motor Show, Palexpo-Geneva, 5th to 15th March 2009.

    Note, how they said "Special Event"...
    I take "special event" to mean other than an auto show.
    At this point I think Tesla has enough clout to just call a press event and have a good turnout.
    Probably have some serious celebs on hand to turn a parking lot (or an airport hanger) into an event if they want to.
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    doug
    Hopefully it will be local. :smile:
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    TEG
    Given that the most finished Model S prototype appears to be penned up in a corner of the SpaceX facility, my guess would be LA area again.

    (But they could ship it somewhere else if they felt like it).
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    graham
    Good point!... Drat!
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    doug
    True, but given the car is supposed to be manufactured in San Jose, unveiling it in the Bay Area might help reassure local officials. Plus part of Tesla's cachet is high tech, and that means Silicon Valley.
    Anyhow, it's a toss up.
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    graham
    Yup! That same link in this thread about 6 posts back!

    It is interesting now that the low end is being listed at $57,500 - I thought previously they listed at $57,000 so that the post-tax-credit price would be $49,500? Maybe they changed their mind on that.

    Also the 150 mile range -- wasn't that mentioned as 160 miles earlier? I wonder if things changed, or they are rounding down until they have a VP to test?
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    Rheazombi
    d'oh! :rolleyes: seriously should have refreshed before i posted! I've had this thread open for a while.

    Either way I'm stoked :biggrin:

    whats with Tesla not being on autobloggreen's 10 green cars of D.A.S. tho??
    �
  • Jan 13, 2009
    TEG
  • Jan 14, 2009
    dpeilow
    Tesla announces S, unwraps Sport ? Register Hardware


    I'm glad that the battery swap and 45 minute charger statements are now public domain. I was told about those a while back but asked to keep any specifics under my hat.

    It will be interesting if the company subsidises (100%?) the 45 minute charger in some strategic locations. Certainly in the UK it wouldn't take too many for them to be useful (in conjunction with home charging). I'd settle for that while the battery swap stations are in the works...
    �
  • Jan 14, 2009
    TEG
    People had inquired about all of those ideas on the TM blogs long ago, but were basically told "not interested - impractical", but it seems times have changed.

    * Quick charge.
    * Fast swap.
    * Rent a bigger pack for roadtrips.

    It sounds like they still don't like the idea of a trailer (either ICE gen or more batteries).
    �
  • Jan 14, 2009
    malcolm
    Hang on. Do you rent the larger battery pack or a car which contains the larger pack? If it's the latter, is there much reason to swap?
    �
  • Jan 14, 2009
    Palpatine
    Whatever happened with the Hyatt Tesla charger network? If Hyatt just made it a policy to have a Tesla HPC at every hotel, I think there are about 1,200 high net worth families that would become Hyatt frequent guest members.

    If I knew that my Roadster or Model S could always get a quick or overnight charge at a Hyatt, that really resolves a lot of issues.

    They could even pre-program the navigation with a button that quickly identifies the closest HPC in the network.
    �
  • Jan 14, 2009
    Iz
    Anyone know what the price spread is between the 150-mile range model S and 300-mile range version? I may have read somewhere it was ~ $18k but that was last year.
    �
  • Jan 14, 2009
    dpeilow
    Indeed, that has gone quiet.


    Yes - it would be useful to have that on the sat nav. Even the possibility to plan a route through the network (with charge times shown at each node) before you set off. Then you would know that you had to stop at X for coffee and Y for lunch, etc. You could go further and have the GPS limit the speed to get you to the next charge point (with an override for if you are going elsewhere, of course) based on the curves JB published in his last blog.
    �
  • Jan 14, 2009
    TEG
    A long while back I suggested the idea that owners could give auth to put their charger location in an "emergency charge spot" database in the NAV. Sure many owners wouldn't be interested, but I bet some would. Probably some mechanism to request permission from the charge spot owner to visit and use their charger. Some sort of security/privacy protocol would need to be in place, but wouldn't that be nice if you could see a whole Tesla charger network on your NAV as you drive around.

    I suppose they could just login to the TM owners forum and post a message saying "I plan to drive 500 miles from X to Z, anyone in between willing to let me use their charging spot?".... But having things linked to the sat/nav would be cool.
    �
  • Jan 14, 2009
    shark2k
    That would actually be really nice to know. I don't' have a job right now (graduated in May, crappy economy, what I'm trying to do takes a bit of time) but the job I'm planning on getting would not really pay enough that I would be able to get this car right away (I plan on saving). Of course, it could change when I see the final product, whether or not I like it, but I would like to get a Model S if I like the design and it would be nice know the price difference between the 150 mile version and the 300 mile version and if there are going to be in between versions, i.e. 200 miles and 250 miles possibly.

    I do hope that they reveal the car sometime in February though and I am really curious to see what it looks like.

    -Shark2k
    �
  • Jan 15, 2009
    vfx
    My in-car Nav has resuraunts, (fast and regular) ATMs, and gas stations. It's 5 years old. That's Moai old in tech world.

    There are already lists in the EV community that show charging stations. I would pay extra to have that put in my Electric car. In fact I think it would be a nice selling point.

    "When you are running out of fuel the car asks you if you would like to fill up and suggests 5 nearby charging stations in our ever-growing E-NAV database."

    Seriously, If the number one concern (left) for buying an electric car is charging, then someone should be working really hard to have the existing car solve the problem.
    �
  • Jan 15, 2009
    shark2k
    Not sure if this should go here, but it is about the Model S: Shaping the Model S: Tesla's designer talks form and function | MNN - Mother Nature Network

    The article is from today and it does have a bit of incorrect information based on past articles/information. For example, they say the price is $59,900 and it makes it seem like the car is going to get 300 miles at that price point. It's short article, but it was interesting nonetheless.

    -Shark2k
    �
  • Jan 16, 2009
    malcolm
    Since the US mobile charger is 120V only, then the availability of faster charging elsewhere would be very useful.

    But then maybe the Hyatt deal has gone quiet because of all the talk about Battery Swapping nonsense.
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    dpeilow
    I suppose this story could go in a lot of different threads, but I'll put it here for now.

    Tesla's great timing


    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    TEG
    It seems von Holzhausen is turning out to be a bit of a spokesperson, not just a style designer.

    They allude to a new pack with higher capacity batteries and a new cooling system. Were they talking about Model S, or a big upgrade planned for the Roadster some day? (Or maybe both)
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    dpeilow
    Yes I noticed that too. I'm sure if they get access to 40% better energy density (note: volumetric) then it would be offered as an option on the Roadster. I wonder if that was a subtle hint that this is coming, or whether he was talking in the same generalisms as we do when we refer to 3600mAh cells?
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    doug
    Model S will be unveiled in LA on March 3rd to Tesla customers and some select VIPs.
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    shark2k
    I wonder how long after that before the general public will get to finally see it?

    -Shark2k
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    WarpedOne
    About two hours :biggrin:
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    dpeilow
    Hmm. Geneva is 5-15th March. Will they put it on a plane, do they have two, or do we have to wait longer?

    Any owner fancy a new tie? :biggrin:


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  • Jan 27, 2009
    Joseph
    Tesla never has been good at keeping secrets...Photos leaking? I think so.

    (Or at least I hope so!)
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    doug
    Ok, looks like it's actually March 5th, and they'll take deposits for it that day. If you have a Roadster or a deposit down on a Roadster, you have priority for the Model S. Delivery is based on the order in which deposits are received.
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    TEG
  • Jan 27, 2009
    Iz
    BusinessWeek teaser photo notwithstanding, TM has done a good job keeping spy photos away. Then again there was that Road & Track shot...
    �
  • Jan 27, 2009
    shark2k
    One of the people that wrote up info on the town hall meeting today said that the site was gonna get some changes in the next few days. Maybe they are going to have an "Under Construction" section for the Model S and they will update that section after the unveiling on March 5th? One can hope :biggrin:

    -Shark2k
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    NEWDL
    Last night Elon said March 5th at Space X will be the reveal. Only Tesla customers and select VIPs invited.

    He also said that the base of the Model S will be somewhat of a rolling chassis for other bodies...truck...suv...van...wagon...ect

    Very interesting...

    I noticed the owners area changed today to reflect the new prices and oprions packages...
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    Tdave
    Re: bolded part ... Not only that, but Elon even clarified that Roadster owners can decide 2 years from now and jump in line ahead of non-Roadster owners. That makes me wonder why any Roadster owner would put down a deposit now, and risk that deposit in the hands of Tesla, when they can just wait 2 years instead. I guess they'd get in the front of the line of Roadster owners, which may occupy most or all of the first year Model S production ... but still ...
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    Not only that but look what they did when the Roadster owners locked in those prices. Wait 2 years ... use the money for yourself... and jump the line to the beginning. EM also said that Roadster owners would be placed in line according to their Roadster #. I am not sure if that plan still exists. ie. Roadster Owner 16 would be 16th in line for Model S #16 unless 1-15 opted out and said no. No brainer wait and jump the line ....
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    vfx
    That would create a lot of tension. Numbers 16 to 500 could wait 2 years during testing and prototype reviews etc. until that last week and bump everyone back 484 spots.

    With a first come first served (in front of non-owners) method, if an owner puts down a deposit at the last week they could be the last of at least 1,200 Roadster owners (but before 10,000 Model S buyers).

    tricky
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    true but my guess is that there will not be a HUGE number of those that want the Model S in addition. And I am not saying the it was a smart choice only that it is what he said. I think I also heard whoever was Roadster #16 say that they were already set to be Model S #16 - which is why I randomly picked # 16. And I am relatively certain that that person was also in fact related to EM. In a sense they are saying we reserve the first 1200 for current owners if they choose to want one the rest are sold in order and if that number decreases that is ok. So the first non-roadster owner to put down a deposit would be number 1201. That number could easily decrease to 1400 or something later. Roadster #1 would have priority over Roadster #2 etc. then after they were all done non-roadster owners would be first come first served. I think it is actually fair that way but it puts me way down the list. But then again I probably will not buy one until I can drive it off the lot the same day. I am just not a waiting list kind of guy. I need more immediate satisfaction and I am not willing to put myself through the worries of price changing and options changing and waiting.
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    donauker
    Actually he stated last night that that it will be in order of receipt of deposit with roadster/deposit owners jumping ahead of non owners.
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    stopcrazypp
    This way makes a lot more sense rather than using the Roadster numbers. That's because what if someone already ordered #16 (or maybe even already had it delivered) for example and two years later the person with the #16 Roadster wants the #16 Model S.
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    Bradleybang
    One guy actually said "so if I get to San Carlos at 12.01 am on 3/5 with deposit check, I get #1?"

    At the end of the conversation they started backing out of that position and said deposit reservation process will be advised to roadster customers prior to 3/5.
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    I think that it makes perfect sense to say Roadster # 1 gets first choice and on down the line and then non-roadster owners. Offering a benefit to the early supporters if they want it. Seems fair to me. Much more fair than 12:00:01 then 12:00:02 etc. and certainly easier to manage than time costraints.
    �
  • Jan 28, 2009
    Palpatine
    If Roadster owners can always jump into the line later, ahead of the non-Roadster people who make a deposit on the Model S, what is the incentive to make a deposit now at all?

    In fact, I would rather allow Tesla to produce a few hundred vehicles before they get to mine. Let them work out the kinks in the system.

    From what I heard, the first couple of Roadsters had body panels that did not fit properly. This prompted Tesla Motors to switch suppliers for the carbon fiber body panels.

    My thought is to wait and see how Tesla Motors grows. If everything matures and looks good from the standpoint of long term success, and if the Model S is really incredible, then I can always put down a deposit when they get close to producing a real car. If Roadster owners are really able to jump ahead of the 10,000 other deposits, then I am satisfied being in the first 1,000.

    I will console myself during the wait by driving my Roadster.
    �
  • Jan 29, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    I think of it more this way than what you mention. Just a different symantic of the same idea. I view it as they are reserving the first 1200 (or so) cars for Roadster Owners. Some may take the offer right away others may wait until they have driven the Roadster for a while as a "test" others may opt out because they do not need that type of car or whatever. I don't view it as jumping the line so to speak. Any non-Roadster owner that orders on Day 1 at slot 1 would actually get the number of 1201. and so on ..... But that number might be reduced later as the cracks do not get filled in. So ... Say I deposited right away and since I am not a Roadster Owner I get slot #1201. Later only say 600 of the Roadster Owners opted to get a Model S so my number drops to 601 and I get it sooner. Roadster Owners like you who want the bugs worked out first would have had the option to get a lower number but choose to wait for the bugs to get worked out and thus end up with a higher number than me. Make more sense that way ?!?!?!?!?
    �
  • Jan 29, 2009
    vfx
    Talking to one of the Tesla guys at CARB last year he said that Lotus told them that it would take a few hundred cars to get the cars perfect.
    �
  • Jan 30, 2009
    Iz
    With regard to Roadster owners getting first dibs at Model S, I would just say they've earned the entitlement.

    The number of Model S produced in a year will also have to get factored into the equation. If TM achieves a 10-20k annual production rate the reservation number issue may not be as significant.
    �
  • Jan 30, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    I completely agree. I think that the Roadster owners ARE entitled to some special treatment for their support. I think that reserving maybe 10% of the first MY is in fact a small token that SHOULD be offered and in the grand scheme of things will never be noticed by John Q. Public. I am not a Roadster owner and probably never will be but I look forward to being a Model S owner and I have no problem letting previous supporters go first. It is just the fair thing to do ....
    �
  • Jan 30, 2009
    TEG
    Given the news that the $92K Roadsters reportedly cost $140K to build, perhaps those first Roadster customers should pay extra for the Model S to help Tesla recoup.
    (Just kidding...)
    �
  • Feb 4, 2009
    Cobos
    We do know that VIPs and Roadster customers will be able to see the Model S on the 5th of March 2009. Anyone know when we mere mortals will be able to see it ? I suppose right after 5th of March unless Tesla want to run an ironclad control of cameras, but is there any official date for the public reveal yet ?

    Cobos
    �
  • Feb 4, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    I imagine that if there is not iron clad camera policy that we will be able to see it about 2 hours after it is revealed .... LOL :biggrin:
    �
  • Feb 4, 2009
    graham
    I am sure the media will pick up the Model S story on March 5th, but the official reveal will be at the Geneva Auto Show. Since that also starts on March 5th, my guess is that the reveal in Southern California and the reveal "in Geneva" will be one and the same. It will be widely publicized.

    Since there is only 1 prototype (that we know of) we will probably have to settle for pictures for a while.
    �
  • Feb 7, 2009
    Tdave
    Moderator note: Copied over from the Washington DC Auto Show 2009 thread.


    Two things I learned from the Tesla reps working the show:

    1) The Model S intro on March 5 will be delayed. It won't be ready by then.

    2) They don't know when production will cut over to the newly designed interior. Early 2009 cars may not get it.
    �
  • Feb 8, 2009
    dpeilow
    That is disappointing. I'd hoped it would be at Geneva too.

    I wonder if the car is not ready, or if they are trying to synchronise the unveiling with an announcement of the factory location / funding?
    �
  • Feb 8, 2009
    graham
    I agree that is disappointing. I hope the "it won't be ready" is mistaken.

    My hazy memory of a time line:
    Dec '07: it is almost done and will be revealed in Spring '08

    June '08: Car is done, and they just need their new designer to tweak the exterior design details and that it will be revealed in Fall '08

    Aug '08: It will be revealed by the end of the year. Press get sneak peak renderings.

    Oct '08: It will be revealed in Geneva, March '09

    Dec '08: Teaser pictures showing a prototype license plate. Feb '09 special event for Roadster owners

    Jan: March '09 event to coincide with Geneva.

    They have been saying the car is done or all but done for a really long time to decide it isn't really done 3 weeks before they show it off. Hopefully it is really done, and they have decided to postpone the unveiling for some other business reasons.

    It would make sense to hold off on the unveiling until they have funding/a place to manufacture it I suppose.
    �
  • Feb 8, 2009
    Palpatine
    I would think that revealing it and having 1,000 deposits, at $20,000 each, would be a useful negotiating point with future investors and the government to prove viability.

    Reveal the Model S and let's get excited about it.
    �
  • Feb 8, 2009
    TEG
    Yes, the dates are very hazy as the sedan was supposed to go intro production in 2009, then 2010, then 2011 and now "on track" for 2012 "as planned".

    2009:

    Tesla WhiteStar Hybrid and Electric Sedan Expected in 2009 ~ Hybrid Car Review

    Sustainable Industries | Breaking News | Tesla unveils electric sedan
    Tesla Whitestar to be offered as both an EV and a REV - Autoblog
    Tesla to Build WhiteStar Electric Sedan in New Mexico | Autopia from Wired.com
    ---

    2010
    2011
    2011
    2011
    2012
    �
  • Feb 8, 2009
    Palpatine
    It has been tentatively rescheduled for March 26th. It was only due to internal scheduling conflicts. That date is not final. I just found out because I requested two tickets.
    �
  • Feb 9, 2009
    doug
    My understanding was that the exterior was pretty much done, but maybe there was a little more interior work to do. That was a long time ago, though.

    A March 26 unveiling means it completely misses Geneva.
    �
  • Feb 9, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    I would much rather see it unveiled in the USA anyway. I mean it is an American product afterall.
    �
  • Feb 9, 2009
    doug
    Agreed.

    I also think they'd better have a plant deal well in hand before they start taking deposits. And since they want to start taking deposits the day of the unveiling, I guess I understand the delay.
    �
  • Feb 9, 2009
    dpeilow
    What's the next major car show in the US?
    �
  • Feb 9, 2009
    Iz


    That would be the NY auto show. April 10-19th. I'm there if that is when it will be unveiled.
    �
  • Feb 10, 2009
    flabby
    I would fly out to see it.
    �
  • Feb 10, 2009
    doug
    As far as I've heard, Tesla isn't planning on doing any more auto shows this year with their own booth. They did Detroit because it was cheap, and they did DC for political reasons. Of course, like anything, this could change.
    �
  • Feb 11, 2009
    Palpatine
    I have already requested two tickets for the March 26th party.
    And according to what Rachel Konrad told me, it is going to be a serious party.

    Model S test drives will be available.

    Let me know if anyone else from TMC is going to be there. We should try to meetup in person.
    �
  • Feb 11, 2009
    Iz
    Based on postings elsewhere the unveiling of Model S will be March 26th at SpaceX.
    �
  • Feb 11, 2009
    SteveF
    Another teaser shot of the Model S

    From the just-received e-mail to owners....
    �
  • Feb 11, 2009
    graham
    The more embedded version of SteveF's post:

    [?IMG]

    It looks good so far. I like the nose.
    �
  • Feb 11, 2009
    vfx
    You have now unleashed the TEG!
    �
  • Feb 11, 2009
    stopcrazypp
    Yay! Finally another leak!

    Looks quite long. The proportions look quite good from what I can tell.

    Size looks 5-Series-ish but not too sure, would be nice to have a scale to compare.

    I want to see more!
    �
  • Feb 11, 2009
    SteveF
    Thanks Graham. I need to learn how to embed pictures some day.

    I like the looks, at least of what there is to see so far.
    �
  • Feb 11, 2009
    doug
    I like it. The brakes look rather small in those big wheels, though. Really interested now to see the front grill.
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    Tdave
    Those wheels look like a $4000 option. :biggrin:
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    I have to say I am pleasantly surprised SO FAR !!! Here is keeping my fingers crossed. Has anyone else noticed that they have stopped calling it a hatchback and started calling it a a 5 passenger 4 door sedan ?!?!?!?!? I think that is a wise move even if it is a hatchback. Those that want a hatch back will be looking for it but those that want a sedan would probably be willing to look at a hatchback. I never liked the stigma of a hatch back - to me anyway - but I don't mind the functionality of it. Hatchback gives me bad conotations of body lines that I don't like. Bad memories shall we say .....
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    Anyone know where I can get a screen saver size picture of that ? When I use the ones you have embedded I either have to scale it up and it distorts or center it in the screen.
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    I am wondering if there are a couple Models S'. The two sneak peak photos that we have seen so far seem to be cars of different colors. First one was kind of a Taupe color and this appears to be more of a Grey color.
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    WarpedOne
    I'd be supprised if they only had one.
    At this stage there should be a few drivable engineering prototypes.
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    Now I have a Tesla smile. :smile: Let's hope it turns to a grin :tongue:when I see the rest of it and gets even bigger when I actually DRIVE it :biggrin:
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    Bradleybang
  • Feb 12, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    Bradley,

    Thanks but No it did not help. I did find someone here at the office that knew enough to resize the image. It is not what I wanted because the aspect ratio is off on the original but it is close. I still have a blank space at the top and bottom of the page. Hopefully TM will put it on there screen saver page but I am sure they will not do that until Mar 26.
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    Kevin Harney
    Does anyone with adequate photoshopping skills have the ability to overlay the first sneak peek with the second one ? I know that they are very different angles so it might not work out too well.
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    doug
    Someone on autoblog (i think) posted this:

    [?IMG]
    �
  • Feb 12, 2009
    doug
    Likely one of the car mags will come up with a new "rendered speculation" based on the photo.
    �
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