Jun 29, 2016
alseTrick ![[?IMG]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_v3DOc72620pbHXT0AYAjxAjvSPRDKcGaQ5eTuu7UVDb2LUqKDGyhoTJqpLwGuR0_Ut1U8nZqjE8i1bquKBXsUl=s0-d)
I'm out.�
Jun 29, 2016
RangerRick Ultimately, the reservation order is largely irrelevant because the issue is that in the real world it will look a lot more like flying.
I'm in Group 2 because I was early to order my plane tickets from Raleigh to Carsville on the day they became available, so I'm right after Group 1! Yay!
Group 1 is, of course, Tesla Airlines employees that get to board the plane first.
But, while you'd think I'd be next because 2 comes after 1, that's not actually the case because TAL West-Coast Rewards Platinum Members get to board before my group does. So really I'm only near the front of the line after they all go through.
*smacks forehead* Of course! I forgot about the TAL Repeat Flyers Rewards Members, who get called to board next. So... I guess I've gotta wait for them.
Whew. Glad that's out of the way, now it's my turn to board.
OH! Except that I am in Economy Class (with a refundable ticket, at least). Gold Preferred Options Business Class is spending extra for Ludicrous Boarding Mode and probably in-flight WiFi or something, so they get to board before Economy Class.
Alright! FINALLY I get to go! I was near the front of the line when I ordered, so this is where my reservation number really counts. Sure, the plane is already half full as I get to my seat, but I get on before most of the other people in Group 2, so that's something at least.
After that, Group 3 (post-reveal orderers) and Group 4 (May-through-now orderers) who weren't already a West-Coast Rewards Platinum Member or Gold Preferred Options Business Class buyer get to go. They get on just moments before the flight attendants close the doors and the jetbridge pulls away.
�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX Well two actually. @aviators99, the OP who has an S and a privileged position who canceled over the lack of transparency with the order number, and myself.
As for the 75,000 reads and 500 commenters on the threads obsessing about where their order is in line, you might identify a few more there but then we all see what we want to see.
It would be interesting to see how many of the 8,000 Tesla 3 cancellations were because the $1,000 deposit didn't seem to buy a spot in line.�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX Actually very relevant since $7,500 Federal Tax credit ultimately depends on where someone is in the T3 order line and how Tesla honors that position.�
Jun 29, 2016
RangerRick To clarify: relevant for actually determining useful order/delivery/how-it-affects-you-in-real-life/etc. information with any level of accuracy. *snippiness pre-removed*
It will surely be relevant. But not now. Not until a majority of pre-orders have gone through the Model 3 Design Studio and they can do a statistical analysis on how highly-optioned vehicles push out non-highly-optioned.�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX Since the number based on when you ordered the car is the only one that exists right not, it is relevant right now. It's the only number Tesla can share with its customer base right now.
People keep getting into convoluted statements on how Tesla can't tell when you'll get your car etc. etc. Everyone knows that. No one is asking for that. I think people deflect to these other topics because they are trying to justify Tesla not being customer friendly in sharing the numeric list.
Simply show the list based on the only information available, when was your order placed.�
Jun 29, 2016
ohmman No, people just don't see why it matters. You've taken both sides of the argument - either it indicates delivery timeframe, or it doesn't. I am of the opinion that it's going to imply a delivery timeframe that isn't realistic for some people. I've been through this before with the X, and this forum has plenty of threads about Signature vehicles (S and X).
To satisfy one or two people by telling them a number that we agree means nothing... what's the point?
The evil thing to do would be to raise false hopes. I'm glad they're not being evil. These aren't excuses, this his how customer facing businesses who care about their customers work. You're suggesting something very bizarre, which is why you're getting the feedback you're reading.�
Jun 29, 2016
RangerRick Dear lord I actually started writing a real reply to this. You know what? Nothing satisfies quite like an emoji shrug.
�\_(?)_/��
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX Chuckle....all those threads of people of obsessing over what the RN's numbers mean and how it relates to where their order is in line and how they were 1st or 50th in line at the store says otherwise. Even the handful here defending an indefensible position likely care or they would not have put down a deposit.
People went and waited in line at the stores why?
What did Tesla tell them would be their reward if they went to the store vs. waited for the online ordering system the next day?
As the OP asks, why did 8,000 people cancel their orders?
There's only the facts, no "sides".
1. Tesla says when you ordered will be a major factor in when you get your car. It will be the difference maker all things being equal. I should get my T3 first since I ordered on April 1st while my buddy at work ordered his last week. My other co-worker's boyfriend should get his before me as he was online at 12:01 April 1st to order his while I didn't order mine until late that evening. None of us work for Tesla or have Teslas or any other mitigating factor. I might sneak ahead of the boyfriend if I significantly out option him (not likely).
2. Tesla can only tell us now where our order is numerically. It should do that. Fun for the customers since the orders were such a phenom, let the customers know where they are in the phenom....and good customer relations.
Might still happen.�
Jun 29, 2016
Striker3000s If Tesla released your number, let's say you were 1000, and you banked your tax credit and maybe the options you got on your car off it, and based of the options you picked being limited, you ended up 4000 in line, you would be angry. I'm sure this would make many people angry. Once people with higher numbers get cars before others because of the options they got, more people then the few concerned about a number in an imaginary line, will be speaking out.
Waiting in line still gives you priority. Just because you don't know exactly how much, doesn't mean it was for nothing. If you couldn't take the chance with your $1000, you should never have waited in line.
All that being said. Cancel if you've lost faith. All the better for the rest of us.�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX And that's all Tesla can do.
As for all your odd conjectures to try and justify Tesla not doing right by their customers, perhaps assume Tesla customers are as smart as Tesla says they are for buying a Tesla?
Tesla is saying it doesn't trust its customers.�
Jun 29, 2016
Striker3000s A person is smart..... people are not.�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX So you feel Tesla 3 buyers are not smart people. An interesting viewpoint but I'd disagree with that, Tesla disagrees with it also, it even thanks buyers and says they made a smart decision, it's just that Tesla does not follow up it's statement with actions like telling the smart Tesla buyers a fact that Tesla could share with them...what was their number in the order line.�
Jun 29, 2016
N5329K This.
Robin
�
Jun 29, 2016
Striker3000s A person can make a smart decision to purchase an EV. People as a whole will be angry when they don�t get there way. If Tesla gives people a number, they will expect to get that number of car. When they don�t they will start rage posting and cause others to rage post regardless of any previous stipulations.
It could be a PR nightmare. Why take the chance of giving pointless information.�
Jun 29, 2016
BluestarE3 I dunno... maybe because they wanted a mustache, or a hatchback, or Falcon Wing doors, or a Model S instead, or a Model X instead, or a Chevy Bolt instead, or disliked the floating monitor, or lost their jobs, or their spouse chastised them for wanting to buy a new car, or many of those were extraneous/frivolous orders canceled by Tesla? Any number of possible reasons other than just not knowing the sequence number.�
Jun 29, 2016
ohmman I sense an imprint of heels in dirt that cannot be eroded, so I'll just back off from being a participant to my normal moderator role..�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX You of course would not do that but THOSE PEOPLE would. Classic.
When companies distrust their customers, nothing good happens.�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX But putting up $1K for a place in line and then being told there's no line would be much more plausible especially since we have a threat started by a current S owner who did exactly that.�
Jun 29, 2016
BluestarE3 It is your prerogative to focus solely on a reason with which you are fixated than to entertain the possibility that the reasons may be various and wide-ranging. Simply stating the same things repeatedly in post after post will not enhance the strength of your position with others. You're going to believe what you believe, so there's no point in trying to convince you otherwise. Likewise, you shouldn't keep trying to convince others that yours is the only valid position. Give it a rest.�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX Pleased follow your own advice. People post messages to people and then say the above when they get a reply they don't like.�
Jun 29, 2016
alseTrick No, you're mixing these things up.
The order of DELIVERY is relevant to the tax credit.
The order of RESERVATION is less relevant to the tax credit because, at best, it's a tertiary determinant of the order of delivery.�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX According to Tesla the order of reservation determines the order of delivery...its a tertiary thing ya know.
But no one is looking for order of delivery now, simply what number we were in the 373,000 orders that made Tesla an business world star. We played our part. We paid our part. We deserve that courtesy.�
Jun 29, 2016
alseTrick If reservation sequence determines delivery, when would you expect someone in Australia to receive their Model 3, even if they were somehow the very first person in the world to make a Model 3 reservation?�
Jun 29, 2016
trils0n I see no reason Tesla should give a reservation number. The number would be meaningless, and cause problems.
Tesla is going to batch deliveries based on:
Location
Options
Previous Tesla ownership
So, imagine they give out reservation numbers. A longtime Model S owner in CA buying a fully optioned car who reserved day 3 will certainly get their car before anyone ordering anything less optioned , or outside of CA, even if they ordered day 1 and had a sooner reservation number. Then people would get mad. Now it's not fair, Tesla doesn't care, reservation number means nothing! why'd they give it out if they aren't going to deliver in order, etc.
It is the right move to not give out sequence numbers. That will only lead to conflict.�
Jun 29, 2016
EaglesPDX Per Tesla's stated algorithm, after Tesla employees, after current Tesla owners, after US West Coast to East Coast after whatever other stipulations Tesla stated.
But no one is asking for those results now, just for where the Tesla customer's orders are in numeric order upon which everything else is based.
I see quite a few good reasons and not providing it is causing quite an uproar already from cancellations to massive threads on Tesla forums and tech sites where people try and parse the reservations number to find their numeric sequence.
And then there's the pure ethics of it. Being honest and transparent with customers who showed confidence in Tesla to deliver the T3 years from now and put up $1,000 each to show they meant it. Any ethical business would reward such customer loyalty.�
Jun 29, 2016
alseTrick So the very first person in the entire world to reserve a Model 3 wouldn't actually receive it until after hundreds of thousands of other people?�
Jun 29, 2016
S'toon I'm not seeing an uproar anywhere, except from your posts. I'm not seeing masses amounts of cancellations from a lack of knowledge of where they sit. If anything, Tesla's moving hard to get the cars out quicker than they originally planned, in order to make people happy. You're the only one I see complaining.
I don't think this is the car for you. You don't seem to like it, and you don't seem to like the way the company does things.
Maybe a Bolt would be a better fit for you. It'll be available at the end of this year, and it may have storage space more to your liking.�
Jun 29, 2016
S'toon I wouldn't say hundreds of thousands of people. As for the first person in the entire world, that is a nuanced question. Is that the first person as in the first Tesla or Space X employee, or the first person who spend days camping out in Australia? The Australian would definitely be later, since they have to retool the line for right hand drive cars, standards, etc.�
Jun 30, 2016
EaglesPDX Its the most read and commented topic on this forum with all kinds of Illuminati conjuring to try and figure out what number is one's Tesla 3 order. We see tech mags from Wired to ArsTechnica telling people how to figure it out looking at raw HTML code in Tesla emails. Tesla changed the code in respnse. It is, understandably, a hot topic since the 400,000 Tesla 3 orders are such a hot topic.�
Jun 30, 2016
Mark C Amazingly, on a thread asking "why-did-you-cancel-your model-3-reservation," I see almost no cancellations mentioned, but the thread has turned into a rant over the reservation number. Sad.�
Jun 30, 2016
JeffK See this is where your premise breaks down... the priorities are still regional. There may exist places where reservation number 1028 is delivered only a day before reservation number 45009. The numbers mean nothing at the moment and will mean even less after people start configuring their orders and putting down real deposits. I think your goal might be just to rile people up spouting nonsense about Tesla breaking promises or hiding things from you, which they're not.
Your exact reservation order is proprietary information, it means nothing to consumers, but could be used for marketing purposes by rival companies (if there ever are any real competitors).�
Jun 30, 2016
KeRaSh Yes, it is a hot topic but people are speculating and snooping through code for fun because they are excited, not because they have their pitchforks in their hands while cancelling their preorders if they aren't given a specific number.�
Jun 30, 2016
aviators99 Well, I don't have a pitchfork in my hand. But yes, I did.�
Jun 30, 2016
alseTrick How do folks from Alabama pronounce Arab?�
Jun 30, 2016
EaglesPDX Regional priorities have nothing to do with what number someone's order was received. That's a simple linear list.�
Jun 30, 2016
JeffK Exactly my point! Therefore it's unwise to distribute such numbers.�
Jun 30, 2016
EaglesPDX I guess Tesla doesn't want customers being excited or having fun.�
Jun 30, 2016
EaglesPDX We do a lot of folks ranting over how Tesla should not give out the numbers.
As for the cancellation, the thread was started by an S owner who cancelled over the lack of transparency in the orders, something he had when he ordered his S and expected to have when he ordered his Tesla 3.�
Jun 30, 2016
Genshi This is exactly right. That's the exact reason that they choose not to host huge catered extremely expensive launches with live speeches and test drives. /sarcasm
But seriously, you're asking for a number that by your own admittance has negligible impact on your actual place in line. Why give out numbers for this supposed order list that mean less than jack all because it's impossible to factor in car optioning that hasn't been chosen yet, regional differences that likely haven't been decided yet, and ramp up speeds that aren't even close to certain yet. Do you legitimately just want the number so you can say "I was _____ in line for the Model ??" I'm serious about that question, it's not rhetorical. What purpose does that number serve at this point? How does knowing it increase the excitement when it's only one of (arbitrarily picking this next number) 7 possible factors in the delivery schedule? Or are you arguing that it should be the ONLY factor in the delivery schedule? I've been following this thread the whole time and I genuinely can't parse exactly what your argument is?�
Jun 30, 2016
EaglesPDX Nope. I'm asking for my place in the line of orders. Was I the 192,373 order, as I suspect, or something else. Easy thing for Tesla to tell everybody, nothing to do with when we'll get our cars.�
Jun 30, 2016
Genshi So just to know for knowing's sake? And this is the sort of thing that would potentially cause you to cancel your order? Or just something that would be fun for you? (Again, no judgement here, I'm actually just asking to try to get a better grasp on the argument. Sorry if my last post came off a bit confrontational.)�
Jun 30, 2016
JeffK No matter what Tesla says it'll matter what people believe.
How many times have they mentioned you have to pay close attention when using autopilot? How many people have ignored that and believed autopilot is all knowing then blame Tesla when it doesn't work for 100% of all situations?�
Jun 30, 2016
stopcrazypp Welcome to the forum! You said succinctly the point many have been making or wanting to make. There is no evidence that not knowing the reservation number is a significant factor in cancellations, maybe that one or two people who have done so.
It is possible to want to know the number out of curiosity while still completely understanding why Tesla didn't release it and happily accepting that. I'm just posting to show support, but as others already pointed out, there is some heel digging that is likely to continue.�
Jun 30, 2016
EaglesPDX Absolutely. The Tesla 3 orders were a industrial and product launch phenomenon, bigger than any Apple launch, bigger than the Model T lauch to which it is more appropriately compared.
Tesla got money and credibility from our actions and should repay our belief in Tesla with some belief in the customers and tell us where our orders are in the order lineup. It is what the most read threads on this forum are about.�
Jun 30, 2016
ohmman No point discussing the other issue, but just want to point out that you keep repeating this, and it's certifiably wrong. There are statistics to back that up, so there's no grey area.�
Jul 1, 2016
Mark C Long A to start with, not the Air sound of the way I hear the middle eastern region pronounced.
And to clarify, it has been this way for as long as it existed, not a recent change.�
Jul 1, 2016
EaglesPDX Ah...so maybe 50%...30%?
Point is the place in order line is a BIG issue, much talked about, much in the press vs. the dug in heels neanderthals�
Jul 1, 2016
JeffK I think we all agree that you care haha!
I know that I'm at 115k ish... because I know when I placed my reservation. I don;t need to know the exact number because it doesn't make a difference (as you've actually said yourself).�
Jul 1, 2016
EaglesPDX Well it means something to YOU apparently. You've actually tried to calculate your position in line.
Seems you did need to know to the point of trying to figure it out. As for my saying the number in line makes no difference, don't think you'll find me saying that. The number is the basis for all the other calculations that delivery will be based on.
I have said that position in line is the ONLY thing Tesla can share with its smart, supportive customer base that it is treating badly by not sharing the information for which the customers have paid $1,000.
I'm sticking with my 192,373. Maybe I'll make that my custom license plate number. It would be fun to know where we all stand in the historic event but Tesla is being evil about it. Taking credit for our work.�
Jul 1, 2016
Ubbe Whaaa? I stood in line for three hours, got refreshments and snacks and had a pretty good time chatting with the folks next to me in the queue. Then I entered my info and deposited a bit of money (that is refundable). Yes, we are part of a historic event on some level, but not anything hysterical.
Not like doing long hours, weeks and months of hard work at Tesla on the Model 3 project -and the GigaFactory, X, S, Roadster et c... There you have the all the people deserving of credit. And not releasing a number is evil? -Nah, not even close.�
Jul 1, 2016
alseTrick I assumed it was pronounced Ay-rabb, not Air-ub. Like how Cairo, Georgia is pronounced Kay-row.
When I saw that in your comment I started wondering how locals felt about the name given world events and that part of the country's propensity to be non-Muslim, conservative/republican and fairly supportive of Trump. It's intriguing is all.
Not trying to make this a pro-this/anti-that political discussion.�
Jul 1, 2016
EaglesPDX But definitely something historical, be nice if Tesla would share with us our part in it.�
Jul 2, 2016
AZ Desert Driver when I was in Africa, the stripped horse was called a zeb-raw.......like the girls name Debra. Only Grigios called it a zeee-bra. You could tell who was well traveled by how names were pronounced. Amazing how many words are culture dependent - and reveal experience and circle of friends.
not sure why name pronouncing has anything to do with canceling car reservation...but this threa seems to have an interesting tangent.�
Jul 2, 2016
JeffK In many parts of the world Z (zee) is pronounced zed so zeh-brah or zeb-raw would be the natural way to pronounce it for those people..�
Jul 2, 2016
N5329K It's going to be a long couple of years.
Robin�
Jul 2, 2016
BluestarE3 I think the difference in pronunciation is based on where one divides the word zebra for each syllable:. ze-bra vs. zeb-ra.
Applying the same logic, shouldn't we Americans pronounce Tesla as Te-sla ("Tee slah") instead of Tes-la (keeping this somewhat on topic).�
Jul 3, 2016
jimmyjohn Sorry dudes / dudettes --- I bailed on (cancelled) my reservation today.
After reading the July 2nd Tesla release on their 2016 Q2 deliveries, I am becoming increasingly skeptical that the company, as currently managed, can deliver.
2016 Q2 was an unmitigated disaster on deliveries, regardless of how Tesla paints the -- very played-out -- ramp-up angle.
My perception: each quarter brings about new promises and proclamations, and each quarter sees let downs and well-phrased "ramp-up" wording. It feels like a politician (Hillary or Donald, take your pick) or news outlet, making promises or proclamations, that never materialize --- but they hope that you'll be so myopic that you'll forget what the promises were. I don't forget.
I PRAY I'm wrong and hope you keep this post and ping me in the future to let me know how spineless I am.
Peace out.�
Jul 3, 2016
JeffK So because the vehicles were already produced but in transit and not technically delivered you canceled your order ...
haha ok that's some great logic /sarcasm.�
Jul 3, 2016
jimmyjohn Again, I'm praying that you are right. Please, please ping me around October 5th to rub this in. Thanks�
Jul 3, 2016
N5329K So what was your rez number?
Robin�
Jul 3, 2016
BluestarE3 Why not wait until October 5th to decide whether or not to cancel? If the situation doesn't improve in your mind by then, then cancel. If they do, then you wouldn't have lost your place in line.�
Jul 3, 2016
jimmyjohn RN108288xxx
March 31st
Portland�
Jul 3, 2016
EaglesPDX Hopefully you are US West Coast and in front of me. When did you make the reservation?
Tesla has made fools of all those who bet against it over the last five years. We are at the stage of building out the T3 because of Tesla's success and sticking to its plan. Sportster proved design and financed the S, the S did the same for the X and now the S and X are financing the T3. The Tesla has gotten accolades from car industry and reviewers (Consumers Rates it the best car ever).
In addition Tesla has large industrial partners.
Only the shadiest of the Wall St TV hucksters would make claims that Tesla won't produce its 400,000 T3's over the next couple years.�
Jul 3, 2016
EaglesPDX Sweet...you were in front of me.�
Jul 3, 2016
EaglesPDX Well you know, God drives a Tesla X. Someone actually prays for a car company? I'm thinking Thor, Indra or Zeus are watching out for Tesla.�
Jul 3, 2016
Genshi I hope you're wrong, I really do. But it does feel like a bit of damage control this quarter. I get the feeling model X demand isn't what they were hoping, and that they may be relying on China for orders to make up for a dearth of orders in the US. To be honest, with the amount of people betting against their success, and the flurry of negative press, it's not altogether surprising that the demand plateaued a bit. Particularly after the surprise Solar City deal, and the fact that it definitely favors the SCTY stock, not the TSLA stock.
That said, I do hope we get to stick it to you later. For myself, I'm going to ride it out until the second reveal and the configuration email. At worst, I lose 6-12 months of interest on $1,000 investment, and I have the option to get the $7500 credit. At best, things turn around a bit (and that's likely, given the 24 hour news cycle) and we all wish we'd reserved 2.
Regardless, I do understand your skepticism. For myself, I'm still banking on the fact that at the end of the day, we really do need to move away from ICE vehicles. And at the end of the day, Elon Musk has proved most doubters as fools. Whether he can keep up that streak is questionable, but to borrow a line from Mr Mulder, "I want to believe."�
Jul 3, 2016
cronosx They said that the backlog support the production ramp for the next Q.. so i would not think this is a "cover" for no orders.
Said that.. if we point the expectation just back 1 Q, they have followed every damn Q expectation.. so yes, they failed the expectation.. so what? it's always better than the last Q expectation, i would think this is a great sign.
They just tend to put a strong target and they try to track it.
If the my car is behind 1Q.. then so be it, but it will be 1Q back, not 2 years�
Jul 4, 2016
Jayc I praise @jimmyjohn for what he has done and would encourage others in the same position to do the same. Apart from the obvious advantage of the rest of us moving a few places ahead, what this will do is make it easy for Tesla to deal with post-sales support of their cars.
As with any purchase, what tends to happen is that when we have reservations on something we buy, the chances are we will end up getting disappointed further down the line. In the case of a car that can usually manifest in the form of minor niggles and complaints initially on fit and finish and in the case of an EV, range or performance, battery overheating, etc etc. and all these will take Tesla resources to deal with and that in turn will have an impact on the rest of the eager customers who are waiting for their car and happy satisfied owners who deserve good customer support.
So yes, if in doubt, if you have reservations on Tesla progress, if you are unhappy with how things are going, or if you increasingly don't see the Model 3 as a good fit to your requirements, please consider cancelling - just my opinion.�
Jul 15, 2016
nexsuperne101 I cancelled mine today, as I test drove an S the other day and don't want to wait 2 years for a Tesla.�
Jul 15, 2016
WileyTheMan Man, if I could plunk down the cash for a Model S 90D, I'd follow suit.�
Jul 15, 2016
FlatSix911 Good thinking ... the Tesla Certified Pre Owned, CPO list shows a dozen cars available for $50K or less
�
Jul 15, 2016
jelloslug We "swapped" one of our reservations for a Model S. It was a reservation placed on March 30 in a SC so just about everyone got bumped up one place.....�
Jul 15, 2016
alseTrick 1. I agree their "end of quarter ramping" is just an excuse for missing their own guidance.
2. That said, their production still has gone up every month for the last ~2 years or so(?).
3. When did you order? I think almost everyone on here ordered before Tesla's announcement to produce 500,000 vehicles in 2018. And it was fairly well known to people paying attention to Tesla that delivery/production issues have, well, been an issue.
I ordered expecting the FIRST delivery to delayed well into 2018 or maybe even 2019 if things went to hell, and to not receive my car until maybe 2020.
4. To each their own, though. Hopefully you cancelling somehow benefits me.�
Jul 15, 2016
alseTrick I was going to thumbs down you but then I realized you were in Brexit and I didn't care (no effect on my US tax credit).�
Jul 15, 2016
jsrawa Tempting, tempting... Some decent prices there but I'd love a factory new 3. Must resist.�
Jul 15, 2016
nexsuperne101 Unfortunately to say that I didn't reserve mine until the 12th April, so it won't make any difference to many of you.�
Jul 16, 2016
AZ Desert Driver Has anyone plotted "acquisition" price vs sale price - to show depreciation vs time? Now that the guarantee price is moot, it would be nice to see how much the MS does decline. I'm trying to factor in the unknown affect/effect of the M3 in the future value of a MS purchase today. But I just can't seem to get a clear enough head to plot a realistic decline curve. The question is - how much will a MS bought today be worth on Jan 1, 2018 when the M3 is in full production?�
Jul 16, 2016
jsrawa I don't have the information available but if someone does this would be fantastic to see.
I browsed through the CPO listings and although tempting the ones available at a lower price point are without Autopilot it seems. It's not that I couldn't afford a new S but I just can't bring myself to spend that much $$ with the 3 around the corner.�
Jul 16, 2016
Chopr147 Go for the 60D. $58,500 after credits...........but then you have to add options�
Jul 16, 2016
182RG As ironic as it sounds, there isn't enough information to cancel a Model 3 reservation. It's less about being a good fit (too many unknowns at this point), and more about I don't know what I'd be giving up. It's $1K, let it ride.�
Jul 16, 2016
McHoffa Aside from performance upgrades, it's pretty much guaranteed you could get every option available on the 3 and be less than the 60D.�
Jul 19, 2016
nexsuperne101 I was just looking at a 2014 P85+ fully loaded with 21" wheels, pano roof, pearl white paint, nextgen leather, premium upgrade, air suspension and not even 10,000 miles on the clock for �63k. I am not keen on the classic shape, so I am now going to wait for the 60D that has literally just come out to become a CPO in 18 months time.
I know it is a waiting game, but I think that realistically, I can save something like �20k by waiting (depreciation), plus I will have a fistful of cash to chuck at it, so much smaller finance deal to make up the gap.
I will still have that MS at least a year, perhaps more, then when the M3 would have been delivered.�
Jul 19, 2016
Jayc Congratulations.
Does that mean if one orders a brand new MS 60D today, there is a delay of 18 months before they get their car? Or did I misread that?�
Jul 19, 2016
jimmyjohn Deposit Timestamp = March 31st at about noon at the Portland Oregon store
For what it's worth, Tesla could not have been more timely in refunding the deposit (about a week).
... and I look forward to any and all jabs when Tesla delivers your amazing machines.�
Jul 19, 2016
CarlitoDoc Waiting for part 2 of the Model 3 reveal....if not happy.......Adios !!!�
Jul 19, 2016
S'toon Yes.�
Jul 19, 2016
alseTrick I'm not going to read through this thread again, but are you unhappy now? And if so, for what reasons? Just curious to see if I may potentially bump up a spot.�
Jul 19, 2016
FlatSix911 Classic case of buyers remorse ...�
Jul 19, 2016
UnitaryExecutive Canceling one of mine because we got a MX!�
Jul 19, 2016
CarlitoDoc not unhappy, just hoping my expectations are met.�
Jul 20, 2016
nexsuperne101 @Jayc , yes you misread. I was going to buy brand new, but with the heavy depreciation in year one, it makes more sense to buy a CPO in about 18 months with very low mileage for way less than a new one will cost. I think that the depreciation will be even higher once the M3 comes out.
My current Nissan Leaf was a pre-owned. I bought it as the second owner, only 14 months old with just 2,972 miles on the clock for 40% of the original sale price.�
Jul 20, 2016
nexsuperne101 A question for those that have cancelled. How long did you have to wait to get your money refunded?�
Jul 20, 2016
alseTrick I just cancelled. I'm going to put a reservation deposit on the Tesla Semi. Getty up!�
Jul 21, 2016
Winston Wolf I think there will be two major cancellation bumps. One will be when it actually comes time to configure the car and people now have to come up with a lot more than $1000 or figure out ways to finance their vehicle. The other will come when the tax credit starts to expire.�
Jul 21, 2016
alseTrick Sounds pretty logical to me.�
Jul 21, 2016
jimmyjohn 9 calendar days and I did not need to follow-up or do anything other than press cancel.�
Jul 21, 2016
Mark C I'm rather hoping that the tax credits are extended, like the 30% tax credit for Solar PV was extended, and hoping Solar extends again as well.
IMHO, there is still that climate change issue and most of the Old Guard automobile manufacturers are still not building compelling EV's that people actually want. If the tax credit got extended until the end of a particular year, say 2025 {2025 picked from thin air} and not a manufacturer limit, the issue of when we get our Model 3 is a simple calendar issue, not how many Tesla vehicles have been delivered in the US by the end of a quarter.
Even more attractive, in addition to the change to a time limit versus quantity limit would be a rebate at the time of purchase that could lower the amount of our monthly payments.
Feel free to pass these along as suggestions to all of your elected representatives.�
Jul 21, 2016
Winston Wolf Part of me wonders whether the old guard of auto manufacturers would actively lobby against an extension. Tesla would be the clear beneficiary of an extension and other automakers have zero interest in seeing them succeed.�
Jul 21, 2016
brshoemak Disclaimer: Not trying to be political here, just my assessment. I don't see the government extending the tax credit if Trump is elected president. I don't really foresee Clinton doing it either, but definitely not with Trump. Their platform is big on jobs related to the coal industry so they have probably little interest in electric vehicles, at least from a political perspective.
That being said, my reservation is around 220K, not planning for a maxed out model, not a current owner, and I live in PA - so if they want to extend the credit I definitely wouldn't be against it. An extension is about my only chance at getting it at all.�
Jul 21, 2016
HanSolo That is it. The more I think of it, the more I am considering cancelling. However there is not enough information yet to make a decision as you state. Tesla has until November or December to wow me as that is when I may place an order for a regular car. Judging from problems people are having with Teslas from a reliability standpoint, that is my largest concern as I may be sent to a remote rural location for my next job in April.�
Jul 21, 2016
jelloslug If you hang around on any specific car brand forum all you will hear about are the problems. Nobody is going to post about how nothing went wrong on their way to work....�
Jul 21, 2016
alseTrick GM is considering recalling 4.3 million vehicles.
But I hope everyone considering cancelling their reservation follows through with it. Better for me.�
Jul 22, 2016
HanSolo What about outside reports from various publications that indicate much higher than average rate of problems? You have to understand that can be a concern. If I am out in a very rural setting, trying to get a car to the dealer repeatedly may be very difficult.�
Jul 23, 2016
KeRaSh Yeah, the Model X doors were a real problem but they seem to be pretty much fixed now. The Model 3 won't have such fancy shenanigans so there shouldn't be much of a reason for regular SeC visits.
On the other hand I hear about large scale recalls all the time, not just minor issues that can be easily fixed by a SeC but full on regional recalls where they kept the cars for weeks to try to fix serious issues.
Happened to my boss with two separate Porsche models.
If you really want to be safe you should cancel your reservation and let us test the waters for you.�
Jul 23, 2016
HanSolo That is what I am thinking. The 3 will no nowhere near the complexity of the S and X, but then again it will be the first truly mass produced Tesla. I may just sit back and wait it out for just a little while as well since my current car is going strong. It also comes down to cost which is why I hope Tesla gives us some more information before the winter.�
Jul 25, 2016
srini I will check out Bolt if is is sold here, and also the revised Model 3 with bigger hatch back. If Bolt turns out as good as they are claiming, I will cancel my Model 3. No telling when I will actually GET a model 3 with the long list in front of me.�
Jul 25, 2016
JeffK The Bolt will not have AWD if that's important to you. It just comes in FWD.�
Jul 25, 2016
jelloslug Where are you going to charge it when you take trips?�
Jul 25, 2016
srini Yeah, I am not going to take long trips with this. I have second car in family. And cough.. not paying $2500 for supercharger for sure. This might cheer you up if u'r not buying the supercharger deal.
White House unlocks $4.5 billion for electric vehicle infrastructure and announces new EV programs�
Jul 25, 2016
MTL_HABS1909 I'm wary of those who have recently joined and come post such things. Might not be the case, but often times haters or fanboys create accounts just to do such things....�
Jul 25, 2016
S'toon You're the second person today to state it'll cost $2500 to enable supercharging, as if that's a fact. First of all, the original S60s price to enable supercharging was $2000, if ordered at the time of ordering the car. It is $2500 if enabled after delivery. There's nothing to indicate that the price to enable supercharging on the Model 3 will be the higher price of $2500. Where are you getting this from?�
Jul 25, 2016
srini Guess I'm wrong? I saw a thread today with $2500 for supercharger. We will know by next June when model3 is launched. I have a late reservation (300k+?) so nothing to hurry.�
Jul 25, 2016
jelloslug Then why bother with a 200 mile car? I have had 80 mile cars for years now and it's more than adequate for the type of driving that you plan on doing.�
Jul 25, 2016
vinnie97 Don't believe everything you read on the interwebs. I'm going with a maximum $1k upcharge for supercharging.�
Jul 26, 2016
alseTrick No, you're right. You did see that.
But some weiner posted it as if it were fact before changing it to a question after being called out on their BS.�
Jul 26, 2016
BluestarE3 The misleading title was changed by a moderator.�
Jul 26, 2016
vjason The Bolt may very well be a "good" EV, but I'm of the type that can't justify a 40K car that is (in some ways) limited to 300 miles a day of range. I have zero interest in a car that requires overnight stays to charge, even if I only do those trips 3 times a year.
I realize I don't speak for everyone, but I just don't see *any* EV that lacks SC-like capabilities ever selling in significant numbers in the near future. Range anxiety is still a "thing" if you have to stop and charge overnight every 4 hours.
Could the Bolt fulfill the needs of a significant percentage of drivers? We know it could. The question is how many of those would buy it knowing that driving more than 4 hours a day will require a lot of down time?
Please realize that I'm not referring to 99% of the people on this board. Most of us here fully understand what the limits of a Bolt will be, and some (like you) are fine with that. However, many first time (Bolt) EV buyers will hear 300 mile range/X hours to charge as pass on it simply because it it would force them to change their driving habits, even if we are talking a couple of times a year.
As a first time Tesla buyer, the SC is the absolutely deciding factor for me because it means I can use the car for anything I want without really changing my driving habits. I can jump in the car and (for the most part) just drive.
�
Jul 26, 2016
alseTrick Do you mean the Bolt's 200 mile-range? Because I'm not aware of them claiming anything close to 300 miles.�
Jul 26, 2016
jelloslug He is talking about driving 200 miles and then charging the car for hours and hours. GM has said that DC fast charging is going to be optional so taking a trip could be a very long process.�
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