Mar 20, 2012
dpeilow I wonder how much of this minimalism / lack of centre console is about saving weight, perhaps to meet the range promises?�
Mar 20, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Good point. But, a hollowish center console's weight would pale in comparison to a full load - 5 average adult passengers and luggage - in the car; Tesla hasn't said so far what passenger load the range promises are for so, we could assume the worst case there?!
Also, carving out door pockets - if safety's not the reason for the thick doors, that is - will help with saving weight too?!�
Mar 20, 2012
onlinespending Exactly. It's called constructive criticism. Everyone that's been crying for improvements to the interior means well. Some people want to give Tesla a free pass all the time. But just like a parent with his or her child, sometimes you have to be tough on the ones you love if you want what's best for them and to see them improve.�
Mar 20, 2012
strider I'm not sure what industry you work in but I can tell you that in my industry we never talk about future product changes as that will cause all the customers to hold their purchases and we would go out of business. Tesla (and every other manufacturer of every product in the world) will make changes/improvements as they go. Buying any product (whether it's a car, TV, or an iPad) is a gamble that the company won't come out with a new one tomorrow. I believe that Tesla was willing to do some 2.5 updates to 2.0 cars that were purchased right near the changeover so there is a history that they will take care of those people. They have also allowed 2.0 owners to pay for the 2.5 parts if they want them.
Bottom line is that if you don't like the way it is on launch then wait. I can guarantee you that they will update various aspects of the car in the future. You just have to decide if you want to wait or get the current version. For instance, I would really like touchless trunk opening but it's not happening. I can live without it but that's a decision I had to make.�
Mar 20, 2012
strider Well, you could just add a few months by dropping to the R list since you're a Roadster owner. We may end up doing this as my wife will not plunk down this kind of cash without a test drive (I know there's a whole thread for that, please post any comments there).�
Mar 20, 2012
goyogi I had the same reaction when I saw it in the initial photos. Seeing it live made it palatable but I wouldn't go weak in the knees over it. Though everyone I've taken to see it liked the interior. I think the radical change from the prototype to the beta was jarring for many of us as we were expecting something similar.
Though if your passengers are focusing on the interior while you are driving you are driving incorrectly. Try driving in a more interesting area and if that's not possible get the performance version and drive REALLY fast and it will force them to look out the window at your close calls or shut their eyes.
�
Mar 20, 2012
smoothoperator On the Roadster's Tesla improved the Roadsters continuously...A lot of the 2.5 improvements on 2.0's were during the build process. I am pretty sure that this type of philosophy will also be present in the Model S.
If i cannot get a deferred signature I will take delivery of my car when I am contacted. I have no desire to wait several additional months for a non sig model.
I guess the lesson that I learned from this is, not to believe everything that Tesla says.�
Mar 20, 2012
ddenboer I never knew Elon had a reality distortion field, but it seems like it has some effect here.
I believe that the interior we saw this past weekend on 43/44 is VERY close to the final interior based on staff I spoke with. In EVERY case, the Tesla employee said "fit and finish" is all that remained, so I do not see them changing this too much. Will it change a bit, yes it has to (it is still missing USB ports and a few other things people here have noted). Will it change a lot? I don't consider a lot to be "fit and finish", so I doubt it.�
Mar 20, 2012
felixtb also it seems that steph, you have only seen it in pictures? you really have to see it live. It does NOT photograph well. before I saw it live and could touch and feel and be part of the cabin I thought it was pretty old style american as well but having been in the car it's really quite nice. it turns towards the driver nicely and is not as flat and clunky as the pictures make you believe.�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx 
�
Mar 20, 2012
smoothoperator WOW.....after seeing those pictures I wonder if a Model S will be totaled by insurance if the 17 inch touchscreen is ripped out of the dash by vandals or thieves....Looks like a very expensive repair if something goes wrong�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx I'm with Thumper and Spatter.
The interior design languages really shows now that the styles line on the new steering wheel integrate it with the dash. It's now a complete package with the dash and door lines and repeated screen and nosecone shape.
Nicely done Franz!!�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx
This was my observation too. The car is $57,000 electric car with 160 mile range. Anything more than that is an accessory. You are paying packaged pricing of $140 for each mile more of range beyond 160 miles and you are paying for tech packages, wheels, badging, whatever you "need"to make it more of what you want. But you can't call it a $100,000 car if all you have done is add a bunch of range miles and a pano roof.
If you want a nice interior either get less miles or take it to an upholsterer to have it blinged out to your dream inerior. Many Roadster owners (Ian) have done this to thier "not good enough" $140,000 car. An extra 6 to 10 grand is pretty minor in the big picture and uncle Sam is giving that to you anyway.�
Mar 20, 2012
doug Seems to be all you guys are talking about across a bunch of threads. It's so much that people can't find what they want. So please continue those conversations here while I try to clean things up.�
Mar 20, 2012
bonnie Good luck with that. We might start griping about where you put the posts, just for a new topic.�
Mar 20, 2012
smoothoperator This is supposed to be Tesla's no compromise mainstream vehicle. Tesla thinks this is the best sedan on the planet. Most people are asking for usable storage and perhaps higher quality materials for the higher end models (perhaps in the form of added packages).. Who wants to possibly void the warranty on certain parts of their brand new vehicle due to aftermarket additions. If Tesla was supportive of the aftermarket then that would be one thing, but in reality they have a very stringent policy with regards to what they feel is compatible and what is not (on the Roadster).�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx Many of the 2.0 changes where cheaper for Tesla and parts were of lessor quality so it's a wash on the interior.�
Mar 20, 2012
MitchL You can almost make out what's on the screen in the picture -- it's definitely some sort of diagnostic screen, but it's integrated into the normal UI (regular icons run along the top)
top pane looks like VIN #, uptime, battery voltage/current, and temperature.
next pane down looks like transmission info: it says STANDBY, DRIVE, Torque, more temperatures, and motor current.
next two panes appear to have more voltages.
Bottom pane says "DRIVE ENABLE" with some status info ("CLOSED") on the right column.
I'll bet there's some really interesting information hidden in the Model S software. Wonder how long it will take us to discover the diagnostic screens...
/Mitch.�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx It's retro.�
Mar 20, 2012
onlinespending You can't use the argument that the Model S is just a $57,000 car, since cars that cost less than half as much have far more functional interiors. And there are plenty of cars at the same price point with well designed, high quality interiors (BMW 5-series, Mercedes E-class, Lexus GS, Audi A6/A7). It doesn't take a $100k car to have a luxurious interior.�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx Stringent is a good word.�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx I'm going to change my call and say its actually a $50,000 car. Tesla, Nissan, and GM build the Fed "discount" into the price of the cars as much as they can get away with. When the rebate goes away I figure that EVs will drop in price half the Fed amount to split future car prices with the purchasers.�
Mar 20, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Doug's the one who's not happy with the (TMC) 'interior'�
Mar 20, 2012
smoothoperator do you think that Tesla would support full aftermarket interior makeover? 6-10k in aftermarket costs could lead to thousands of dollars of out of warranty work.....heck even if I had someone dye some of the dash pieces and seat pieces so that they are color coordinated with the inserts could lead to major out of warranty problems. I was thinking the aftermarket may be the solution but the only real solution is to have Tesla offer these as factory options.�
Mar 20, 2012
Lyon Seriously, we should add a whole forum for the Great Console Debate! I'm all for discussion but it seems like there's a new thread on some variation of that theme every day.�
Mar 20, 2012
bonnie And on every thread.�
Mar 20, 2012
Lyon
Bonnie, +1�
Mar 20, 2012
richkae I would really like a "pictures of the interior" thread, with no comments and other clutter. Just pictures.�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx My FX has a large but shallow glovebox a push-to-release ashtray (12V included) two side by side center mount cupholders that come out for easy cleaning (and it's nice big box when the cut shapes are out, a spacious armrest (12v included) with the lid having two slide forward armrests and each of them opens up to reveal a pencil holder (never use them) There are also two cavernous front door(s) pockets that flip open
Even with all that filled up space packed I still put a sandbag bottomed trash can on the back seat hump, a soft neoprene holder that hangs on the center air vents (for Iphone) and I glued a small 2 pencil holder to the center tunnel passenger side knees for a quick safe grab to take notes on the nearest piece of paper.
Whatever the model S has it will never be enough storage and that's OK. The Roadster has taught me that I can make anything that I want this bad work just fine for me.�
Mar 20, 2012
smorgasbord Are you griping about the griping that's going on?
Are you going to merge the Poll on the interior thread with the center console thread with the multiple Santana Row threads? What about all the non-interior stuff that's in the center console thread? My head hurts just thinking of trying to clean it all up. Seriously, though - I'm constantly amazed at how great the Moderation is on this forum, and how much I learn every day from many of the postings. So, my thanks.
Finally, I'm not going to gripe about the interior griping even though I personally believe the griping has gotten way out of hand: When you think of a $60K vehicle that has at least $20K of batteries plus a 400hp liquid cooled motor and associated PEM - just how much is left over for chassis, gear reduction, stability control, body, glass, lighting, touchscreen, anti-lock brakes, air conditioning, airbags and (oh yeah) interior?�
Mar 21, 2012
doug Well my main gripe is that people chose to do it across multiple threads will little care as to what the thread was supposed to be about. So like adaptive cruise control and 3-phase charging, if people want to take issue with something, do it in one thread instead of taking a bunch of other threads off the rails. Thus ruining things for other readers who just want to read some updates or see some new pics, etc.�
Mar 21, 2012
AustinPowers Reminds me of the old days on the Flare scifi forums, where we endlessly debated about the Wolf 359 battle in the Star Trek TNG episode "Best of both worlds" :wink:
Seriously though, I agree that most if not all our gripes about the Model S' (perceived) inferior interior (pun not intended but welcome :smile
I would not try to "clear things up" even though I too admire the forum for its great moderators (again something that reminds me of the Flare forums) - the task would seem too daunting to me.
Perhaps we should all wait a while for the next steps in the Tesla Model S masterplan to manifest themselves (RC, finished design studio) as well as comments by Tesla reps like GeorgeB et. al. before the discussion gets way out of hand. I sometimes catch myself getting almost into "bash mode" about the Model S even though I love that car (and have done so since I saw the first images of the prototype) and wish for it to succeed on as many levels as possible.
And for all of us who wish the interior had turned out differently, let's not forget there WILL be a Model S 2.0 sometime in the next few years :wink:�
Mar 21, 2012
jcstp All this talking about the interior?
Did someone ever read magazines about cars?
Everytime I read about a journalist testing a car that is not yet in production, they say it "squeets" and "squats" at every bump or turn. Some from big makes. This happens also a few months before release.
So getting upset now is too soon!
I guess the only people who know we should worry about the interior are the people at TESLA itself! The rest are just making guesses. Can anyone compare model S with cars of other carmakers 3-4 months before release? I think not, because no customer ever got to sit in the interior of an other carmaker 3-4 months before release!�
Mar 21, 2012
bonnie Doug's taken a first pass at cleaning up different Model S threads. Reposting as an fyi:
�
Mar 21, 2012
fairlycool I agree with this post 100%!�
Mar 21, 2012
Robert.Boston Have you noticed -- no one has complained about the lack of an ashtray in the Model S? How times have changed.�
Mar 21, 2012
132 The world is my ashtray. - sarcasm�
Mar 21, 2012
spatterso911 Why doesn't the Model S have an ashtray for goodness sakes!!! They make great change holders!
There now... we've put that to rest.�
Mar 21, 2012
SigGuy I go back and forth on how much I should be deterred and disapointed by my dislike of the interior. I do buy the arguments that we're losing the forest for the trees-- the big picture is that this is a unique animal that is unparalleled. An electric car that has range, speed, performance, looks-- nothing else like that exists. I think my disappointment comes from the fact that all of those things seem like the HARD part and the interior feels like it should be the easy part. It's like you hit a towering home run and trip rounding the bases (hey, baseball season is coming!). So I love the car and will focus on what's most important and buy it and likely love it. I just can't believe they tripped on the home run trot.�
Mar 21, 2012
agileone It will be the second configuration option for the center console : a huge ashtray, for the real EV smoker ...�
Mar 21, 2012
spatterso911 Awesome...I can see the advertising for this...
Tesla 17" Widebay Ashtray. For those who'd rather kill themselves while saving the planet.
Let's float this by George B.�
Mar 22, 2012
strider We'll call it the "Bob Lutz Configuration". Sorry, just watching Who Killed the Electric Car and Revenge of the Electric Car for the first time this week so the cigar-chomping man is front of mind today.�
Mar 22, 2012
jerry33 +1 Priceless.�
Mar 25, 2012
Tommy On a another thread the gaps in the rear vents enclosure is mentioned. While true and bothersome, what bothers me more is the poor workmanship done on the lacewood veneer. As can be seen in the photo, two pieces were used to veneer the top. That is an acceptable practice and can yield very stunning results if done correctly. A true woodworking craftsman would have Book Matched the veneers (Laying up two or more veneers side by side with opposite faces showing). This would have produced a symmetrical image and showcased true craftsmanship. Unfortunately what we got was a poor attempt to match two lacewood pieces and the results look pathetic for even an economy car let alone one costing upwards of $100k+
View attachment 5082�
Mar 25, 2012
onlinespending Yeah, that is pretty shoddy. But this is from an earlier beta, so hopefully they change this. The lacewood has also changed, so there's still hope. As unsightly as that seam is with the two pieces of lacewood, there are so many things wrong with this picture IMO. The quality of the seats, carpeting...all look bad. But again, this should in no way be representative of the final product. Glad I'll have time to see a production quality build before making any final decisions with my Model S. I would likely defer if I couldn't see one before locking in my purchase.�
Mar 25, 2012
Larry Chanin Hi Tommy,
I agree with your remarks regarding the lacewood veneers. However, on a positive note this photo, clearly showing the poor quality and design limitations of the console, in my mind reinforces the likelihood that a field retrofit will be offered by Tesla. Hopefully, when they resolve the console issues they will also resolve the veneer quality issues.
Larry�
Mar 25, 2012
Jointguy Those cheap plastic silver painted air vents have got to go. I hope they are just a mock-up for the Beta's�
Mar 29, 2012
smorgasbord Finally found something from Fisker that Tesla should adopt:
If that link isn't showing try this: http://youtu.be/imqHvi5vwwU?hd=1&t=2m22s�
Mar 29, 2012
Jkam If Tesla had those door pockets, this thread definitely wouldn't be 23 pages long. That is a really nice feature.�
Mar 29, 2012
dadaleus If only Henrik Fisker had actually worked with Tesla the way he promised to... we could have had a Tesla engineered drivetrain with Fisker design. Mind you, I LOVE the S so this is not a complaint--the engineering frankly is a lot more important and will be what really makes or breaks success. But I have to admit that Fisker takes design up to another level.�
Mar 29, 2012
AnOutsider +1 overall (Fisker + Tesla). That Nina design so far looks amazing. Not sure how I feel about these door pockets though. They almost seem to need more effort than a simple bin would. Unzip, unfold, squeeze item in...�
Mar 29, 2012
Mycroft Agree 100% Maybe I can have pockets like that made out of leather and attached to the doors. Hmmmm.�
Mar 29, 2012
onlinespending I gotta say, for some reason I'm not too much in love with the flaps. Though I do like the zippered pocket since it hides well. The overall quality of the Fisker interior looks great though. Lots of leather it seems.�
Mar 29, 2012
PV4EV
That's the same conclusion I've reached. I fully expect to tastefully customise my Model S interior to some extent, and that could include implementing some subtle door storage solution, central console adaptation, and go as far as doing a full leather retrim if needed. I've done it in the past and been far happier than putting up with an interior I don�t quite like yet have to endure for 100k miles. There are bespoke interior experts out there who can produce superb results, albeit at some cost, and they can normally be found in the field of classic car restoration.�
Mar 30, 2012
richkae I disagree. I don't see anything special from Fisker. I have seen many beautiful concept cars designed by lots of talented designers. They all have something in common - they aren't practical. A good design has form and function.
The Model S is a good looking car that also has fantastic engineering, excellent drag coefficient, massive cargo and passenger space.
The Karma is a good looking car but I will be truly impressed when they design something that is not one dimensional.�
Apr 8, 2012
Jeeps17 +1
How hard can it be to wire USB ports to the rear (even if only to deliver power, without integration to the car's electronics)? If the center console does not work, why not in the doors, or in a discreet spot on the rear of the front seats?
I am also concerned about the kids in the rear-facing seats... Lack of USB there notwithstanding, does anyone know if they have any ventilation ducts, or have to rely on the cabin ambient temperature? This may be an issue when loading the car with 7 passengers in cold weather (pre-warming would be lost to the open trunk and doors).�
Apr 9, 2012
jerry33 Yes, you can see the ducts in all the pictures that show the back of the front seats. There are also separate temperature settings for the rear.
There are no separate ducts for the jump seats though. Re-reading your question, I see that's what you meant.�
Apr 9, 2012
Grendal This is something I'd expect to see in the Model S 2.0 as an upgrade. For the first generation Model S I'd expect them to keep to the KISS principle. Just adding the seats and having them pass government specs is a good first step. Getting them out on time and making what they have work properly makes the most sense when it comes to priority.�
Apr 9, 2012
onlinespending I think he was simply talking about the back-seats, which lack any sort of storage, cup holders, or USB charge ports. He wasn't referring to the rear-facing seats, which I imagine is what you were thinking. Placing those 3 things in the back seats (let alone the front seats) should have been designed from the get-go, so that it isn't looked at as something that needs to be "added" and potentially impact schedule.�
Apr 10, 2012
Robert.Boston I was talking about the "middle row" back seats, yes. But Jeeps17 separately is concerned about ventilation (and other amenities) for the rear-facing seats.�
Apr 10, 2012
Jeeps17 My comment was indeed relevant to the rear-facing seats, and only addressed ventilation. I understand that rear-facing seats will not be used by all S purchasers, and that other amenities will not make it in V1.0 (if ever).
I do however agree that the middle-row passengers seem to have been "forgotten" (aside from climate controls / ventilation) - the storage issue IMHO is more concerning than for the front occupants. I plan on using the S to haul the family around (wife + 4 kids), I can already think of issues with where to put water bottles. We use capped valved ones when on the road to avoid spills, but they still have to be reachable by the users.
Thankfully the kid's booster seats have cupholders, but they will outgrow those faster than I want to admit it...
Are you being sarcastic?
No issues with having topic moved to another thread if indicated.�
Apr 10, 2012
Trnsl8r I agree that the thread has drifted pretty far off-topic, but since I also plan to get the rear-facing seats I share the concern that was raised (and I agree that the discussion has been reasonable). Perhaps a mod can assist with making the side-track a separate thread "Ventilation for rear-facing kids" or something?�
Apr 10, 2012
doug It was reasonable, but it was off topic.
Please keep discussions in the correct threads (or make a new one if one doesn't exist), instead of relying on a mod to clean up after you. We're here to help, but we appreciate when members post responsibly.
The "ventilation for rear-facing seats" topic is a bit too convoluted with the other issues. Feel free to start a new thread specifically on that topic. :smile:�
Apr 12, 2012
neroden Is Tesla seriously proposing to have NO storage available to the people in the back seats? Not even the standard "pocket behind the front seat"?
If so, that's just *stupid*.�
Apr 12, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla I'm sure "fishnet pockets" behind the front seats will eventually make it there. We just haven't seen them on the betas thus far.�
Apr 12, 2012
andrewas While at the opening of the Tesla store in Oslo I asked George B. about storage for the back seat passengers. His answer was that there would be no pockets - none on the back of the front seats, nor any on the inside of the doors. Not even cup holders... This is a serious problem in my opinion. I also find the ability to split the back into 40/60 to be less optimal - a 40/20/40 split is more useful as you would be able to lay down the center piece only to transport items like skis without having to use a roof rack.
There is however something up Teslas sleeve here - he said that they want people to customize their cars - so spaces like the missing center console up front and maybe also a center piece on the floor of the back seat - will be filled with various inserts. I guess Tesla is hoping for 3rd parties to offer various solutions here - in addition to probably a few offered by Tesla itself. We joked about a fridge insert which he dubbed the "sushi car" - but I think it was not just all joke - someone might eventually offer a center console insert with a built in fridge.
So GG - you might not get fishnets behind the front seats - but you might be able to stuff your fish into the center console fridge... :wink:�
Apr 12, 2012
Jeeps17 No kidding!
How someone like Elon Musk, who has young kids and is marketing the S as a no-compromise 7 passenger vehicle, could omit basic passenger amenities like this (not partially, but completely!) is beyond me...�
Apr 12, 2012
smorgasbord Yeah, i'd be a shame to have to screw these things to the doors:
�
Apr 12, 2012
spatterso911 I'm surprised that their solution is to leave it to the customer to provide basic items provided by nearly every other vehicle for the past 20 years. Okay, maybe Yugo skipped out on rear seat cup holders. Even the Germans, who despise cup holders, don't skip out on these or some kind of storage. Get ready for cluttered, sticky back seats!�
Apr 12, 2012
neroden George B, if you're listening: This is wrong. This is simply an error.
I'm emailing Tesla now.
Everyone will have to modify their seats. Everyone. This means, why bother getting the expensive interiors? You have to go to a custom shop anyway.
This might be a deal-breaker even for me. This is absurd. No car company is this bad at interior design, except perhaps Tesla...�
Apr 12, 2012
Robert.Boston @neroden: I considered a similar post but thought, "nah, really? Would the total lack of back-seat amenities really cause me to not sign up for the Model S?" My initial reaction was, no. But the more I think about it, the more I agree with you -- this would be a very serious flaw that would sharply reduce the ability of the Model S to be a useful vehicle for my family.�
Apr 12, 2012
dadaleus Hate to stick something this ugly in a nice leather car, but it's an option:
I would only stick it in the car for family road trips. Otherwise it would live in the garage.
I first plan to stop by Al & Eds in No Hollywood once I have the car to see what they could come up as a more permanent and elegant solution and for how much.
But yes, its a surprising and frustrating omission. Especially after all the "how many cup holders" questions that were raised early on. But it won't make me hesitate to buy the car for one second. This is part of being an early adopter.�
Apr 12, 2012
AnOutsider Elon went out of his way to fit his family, it seems so odd they'd omit backseat creature comforts. Shame there isn't even a pull down cupholder in the center armrest�
Apr 12, 2012
smoothoperator the only thing that makes sense is these "modular" accessories could prove to be a lucrative profit center for Tesla, even though they are normally included with like priced cars (or for that matter any modern car).�
Apr 12, 2012
AnOutsider But that's for the front right? Has something been announced for the back? I don't plan to have many people back there often, but when you tout seating for "7" then you'd think things like these would be considered.
*shrug*�
Apr 12, 2012
Jeeps17 My point exactly.
I may not be in the majority of S buyers, but I plan on moving 6 people (2 adults, 4 young kids) in this car fairly regularly, on road trips in the 2-hour range.
That means a lot of loose items in the car, with no place to put them within easy reach of short arms...
Are we there yet ?
:scared:
This might force me to wait for the X... I'll hope for the best until the RC cars come out, and plan to e-mail Tesla about this (amongst other concerns).�
Apr 13, 2012
Norbert There was another report from GeorgeB, a few weeks ago, saying (or suggesting) that Tesla itself is working on retrofittable addition(s) (for the open space) and/or replacement(s) for the center console. Or so.�
Apr 13, 2012
Robert.Boston On a slightly different tangent... I could have sworn that I heard some mention of an alternative back seat, with two bolstered ("bucket") seats instead of seating for three on a bench. Was I fantasizing?�
Apr 13, 2012
AnOutsider I remember that report too, but can't remember from who�
Apr 13, 2012
mnx I just went out and had a look at the back seat of my 2011 BMW 335d... It has zero storage. Nothing on the seatbacks, nothing on the doors. So the lack of storage in the backseat definitely isn't unique to the Model S.
I happen to like it this way.
Missing cupholders isn't a huge issue for me since my kids are still in boosters seats etc. which have cupholders built in. I guess 8+ years from now I may have to figure out something. Although by then they're less likely to need a drink while riding around in the car.
my 2 cents...
�
Apr 13, 2012
Jeeps17 My Infiniti G37X (not exactly a car know for family friendliness) has mesh pockets on the back of the front seats, and a fold-down armrest in the middle of the back seat with built-in cup holders. The rear seats themselves, however, do not fold down, and while it would be nice to think it was built with the comfort of the rear passengers in mind, the armrest exists essentially to allow a passthrough from the trunk for narrow long items like skis.
I also plan to make use of my kid's childseat cup holders, but they also use lots of books / travel toys, etc... that it would be nice to tuck away without having it look like I am a hoarder living in my car.�
Apr 13, 2012
AnOutsider Mesh and pulldown cupholders in the Q5 and A6:
Again, rarely use them, but the implementation doesn't seem hard to do. Guess we'll see what they come up with in the RCs in a couple weeks.�
Apr 13, 2012
Todd Burch I think Tesla needs to address this directly instead of beating around the bush--like they addressed the satellite/pano roof issue, etc. It's concerning a lot of reservation holders. For offering a free loan to Tesla, we deserve that much.
Tesla, we're nervous. Please quell our fears...�
Apr 13, 2012
Dale Adams +1
Regardless of what some here think, not everyone wants the interior cluttered up with storage bins, bags and cupholders.�
Apr 13, 2012
Doug_G And a hidden pocket in the side. I only discovered that by accident two weeks ago. :redface:
I use my seat-back pockets all the time. You can reach the passenger side one from the driver's seat. A bit of mesh wouldn't hurt the styling.�
Apr 13, 2012
neroden Seatback pockets are the thing I consider essential. I usually store Kleenex in there. Then when someone in the back seat starts sneezing, I can tell them not to sneeze on my seats....
Nowadays people I know who bring drinks bring them in canteens with screw tops. But it's still less than ideal to leave them rolling around on the floor. Sticking them into the mesh pocket allows them to stay upright when they're not being held, rather than turning over (which tends to increase risk of leakage)....
On a *long* road trip, this is where extra maps and flyers and tickets go, after the glove compartment fills up...
Et cetera et cetera. The pockets on the back of the front seats were a great development of 1980s car design and it's just pathetic to not have them in this day and age. It's not like they're difficult to add, but it's a pain to take the car into a custom shop, undo the leather stitching, etc....�
Apr 13, 2012
neroden When your kids are older you'll want some sort of storage in the back seats. Trust me. You won't like that "clean" design once you have people old enough to talk in the back seats -- or at least they won't like it!�
Apr 13, 2012
smoothoperator A lot of people on here are confusing clean with spartan...big difference between the two�
Apr 13, 2012
mnx See that picture of the Audi above. eww
I like hard plastic on the back of the seats... If it was leather back there with a seatback pocket it wouldn't hold up so well to my 4 year old getting his dirty shoes all over it.
Clean? Spartan? Minimalist? Whatever you want to call it, that's my thing.�
Apr 13, 2012
ckessel My RX8 has leather pockets (not mesh) on the back of the front seats. Works nice for thin items: travel tissue pack, owner's manual, iPad, paperback book, etc. It's about the size of the pocket on the back of an airline seat under the tray table.�
Apr 13, 2012
BYT_P1837 As a Model S reservation holder I would like to see some additional storage but this will not prevent me from buying this car and I know it's been discussed a lot on the main TM forums page in regards to the center console and easy access discreet space. The focus here is more on the passengers in the rear seats. I can see how some who don't use the backseats much or travel no more then 50 miles with passengers can say, "I don't need clutter space in my car, keep it simple like my iPhone! Just because others want it doesn�t mean that I have to!" On the other hand the need for storage space or even a couple cupholders is a bigger issue then some may realize. Google the subject or just check out this one link example:
For Car Buyers, Cupholders Can Be an Emotional Issue | News Analysis content from WardsAuto
As a stockholder of Tesla Motors, this is my concern. The car needs to be what Elon set it out to be, a beautiful, no compromise car! Although you can NEVER please everyone and shouldn't try, it's best to give options to those who really feel the need to address their own issues with such a large investment.
The Model S isn't a Roadster that is the weekend hobby car for the upper class. The Model S is the everyday family driver and transporter, which needs a few more creature comforts then that of the beautiful sports car they discontinued. Now, TM has said they will address the issues for those who have issue with the lack of storage, and I know we all have been very patient. My point in writing this is to help push home the need for TM to get it right, or make it as right as possible so that this car, and they company, can be a success.
TM is already in an uphill battle to get the electric car to become mainstream over the next 10 years and we all want it, no, need it to succeed. It�s bad enough that it�s compared to the failures of Fisker with the Karma or the Leaf with it�s lack of range(see also Mitsubishi MiEV or the Infiniti LE that is 2 years out still), or the Aptera that my father put money down on and they are no longer an option. Or cars get focused on and loans that aren�t even a true EV like the Chevy Volt.
This is what makes us so passionate about this car is that it�s not those cars or companies and I think this is why we are even here.
It�s not about my investment in the company,
It�s not about that it's a really cool car,
It�s not just that its performance is awesome,
It�s not just because gas is an unsustainable resource,
It�s not just because the environmental impacts if the EV doesn't succeed�
It�s a combination of all of these things and much more. This realize this maybe a little over dramatic but, I need this so I can lay my head on my pillow at night. Knowing that the children I have brought into this world and for those I help everyday at my job(I work at a school) have a future that doesn�t require a filter to breath in clean air. They wouldn�t have to work 2 jobs to pay the rising cost of bad food because of the cost impacts of growing and delivering it to their local supermarkets. Farmers that have to cut even more corners and grow even more unhealthy food to feed the masses that demand an affordable meal. An electric car will not solve the worlds problems, but it�s a damn start!!�
Apr 13, 2012
smoothoperator Yea but they are all not the same thing...
Clean & Spartan are two different things...The lack of features is spartan...Clean can be accomplished without features being omitted.
There was a link on here on how some auto manufacturer implemented a leather storage pouch into the door panel...It was pretty impressive I wish I could find the youtube link. I wish Tesla had come up with innovative storage that would be useful but also would not clutter up the interior.�
Apr 13, 2012
Arnold Panz I was cleaning out old e-mails and found one from Tesla about the Model S from 2009 that talked about the interior design and had a mini FAQ that had a question specifically about cupholders and storage space. The response, as I recall, said something to the effect that Tesla understood the importance of this issue to drivers and because of the flexibility they'd have in designing the car they'd be sure to include plenty of both! I unfortunately deleted my e-mail and it's not in my trash anymore, but thought it was interesting in light of this thread.
I have three young kids (ages 10, 8 and 4), but almost never use cupholders in the back or storage in the front. I like to keep my car clean and uncluttered, so I've been pretty sanguine about this whole issue. It's clear that others are much more reliant on these things, and I wonder if the designers at Tesla underestimated how much some people rely on these things in their cars?�
Apr 13, 2012
Robert.Boston There is plenty of storage -- for duffel bags! It's the storage space for at-hand items that's gone missing.�
Apr 13, 2012
smoothoperator a box van also has a lot of storage space�
Apr 14, 2012
dadaleus I also remember this reading exactly as you say. I think it was an FAQ on TeslaMotors.com though. I thought of that answer when I realized there were no cup holders in the 2nd row for the kids. I fear for my seats when we pick up shakes at In-n-Out.�
Apr 14, 2012
AnOutsider Must've gone the way of the 1 minute battery swap:
I didn't see anything in this FAQ though other than this:
�
Apr 15, 2012
Andrew Wolfe Exactly. All those things take up space and/or make seats less comfortable. The only time I ever remember using seat-back pockets is when I figured out that my daughter had stuffed my MP3 player in one after I couldn't find it for 3 months. Sometimes space to stretch out is the ultimate luxury.
I'm confident there will be accessories available to solve many of the storage problems for those who are concerned.�
Apr 15, 2012
Jeeps17 Obviously nobody wants the S to have minivan-like storage all over the place, although if done properly, much of it can be next to invisible (I have a Sienna, the design of some of their nooks is brilliant, others not so much).
The point is that if you really are going to use this car to move 6-7 people (as I am), you need at least the basics for the second row... nevermind what I'll have to do for the kids in the trunk
The storage issue has been beaten to death, resuscitated, and beaten again enough times (insert your ACLS anecdotes here), but I personally do not think that the owner of a "no-compromise" sedan in this price range should have to spend extra for a bit of well-placed storage accessible to the driver and passengers. Those who need the truly extra (like that sushi fridge) can buy the accessories.
My (soon to be discontinued) CAN 0.02$.
JP
PS: I'm pretty sure seat-back pockets should not prevent you from stretching too much (unless you take Elon's statements rather literally and try to fit the large-screen TV into one :biggrin�
Apr 15, 2012
neroden It's pretty obvious that the Model S needs to have SOME "at-hand" storage in the back seat. Pockets behind the front seat take up precisely no room if not in use, so they are the optimal choice.
Cupholders would be strongly desirable but are harder to fit in, so I can deal with that.
People who think they don't need any at-hand storage space in the back seat, clearly don't take long trips with people in the backseat. Not including this storage space is going to deter a large number of buyers. Period. Including it will deter precisely nobody.
Even mnx is going to want back seat storage space when his/her kids are older. Guaranteed.�
Apr 15, 2012
dadaleus Two interesting comments from a Tesla sales rep when I dropped by with my family today:
1) He claimed the lack of cup holders in the back seat are related to the challenges of getting 5 star crash ratings in all categories because they can become projectiles. It wasn't until I left that it occurred to me to wonder if he means the holders themselves or the contents. But this one seems pretty fishy to me. In our Highlander (Hybrid of course) the holders in the doors are well integrated into the door, so no way the holders at least could become projectiles. It's also hard to imagine the contents coming flying out but I suppose it's possible.
2) His other comment was about the 21" wheels effect on mileage... I posted the details in the appropriate thread here so as to avoid brining down the off-topic wrath of the mods. :wink:
Update 1: Removed comment about there now being a shade for the pano roof since by searching I see this was known before... I just somehow missed that news.�
Apr 15, 2012
AnOutsider I believe manual shade is standard. Did he mention a power shade as an upgrade?�
Apr 15, 2012
dadaleus No he didn't, but I hadn't asked either since I didn't even know there was a manual one.�
Apr 15, 2012
bonnie We appreciate you.�
Apr 16, 2012
ddruz IMHO this hits the nail squarely on the head.�
Apr 16, 2012
dsm363 If their reason for this is true, it would be the items acting as projectiles I'd imagine.�
Apr 16, 2012
Bearman Looking at pictures of the two five star crash rated cars, the volvo and the camaro, i dont see much storage in the back on them either so there might be some truth to this. the volvo has cupholders in the fold down arm rest but that might be circumventing the crash test rules.
The volvo seems to have a pocket behind the front seats and its located high up maybe to avoid knee injuries.
�
Apr 16, 2012
onlinespending I call BS. The lack of storage if anything encourages people to leave more things out in the open (on seats, on the floor, etc.) that you have an even greater concern about your items becoming projectiles in the Model S.�
Apr 16, 2012
dadaleus Sure, in real life. But who knows if they take that into account in these tests.�
Apr 16, 2012
BYT_P1837 I hear what you are saying, but we all know that the government rarely runs tests that make sense anyway. They would simply say that it should be written in the manual not to leave stuff in the car that can potentially be a projectile. But if you put a cupholder there, then it's implied that you can put a cup there regardless of what is written in an instruction manual. Not that I agree or disagree, just explaining how they justify the analysis of their tests as I understand it.�
Apr 16, 2012
dsm363 I agree. These tests usually have little to do with real life.�
Apr 16, 2012
Grendal That's what I was thinking as well. In bureaucracies, one time incidents can become national policies. If even once someone hit the brakes hard and a Big Gulp in a rear seat cup holder flew into the front distracting a driver, then it could easily become policy that rear cup holders can cause accidents.�
Apr 16, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla On the other hand, there's simply no legislating against pig-headed decisions by drivers though; I cringe everytime I see a California license plate being sported in one corner of the windshield, on the inside! Reminds me of this scene from "The Omen" (warning: graphic imagery!)�
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