Chủ Nhật, 25 tháng 12, 2016

Where's the charging port? part 2

  • Aug 11, 2011
    AnOutsider
    OK vfx, you are wasting precious database space that could be used coming up with wild ideas on the look of this thing.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2011
    TEG
    As someone dreams that a 3-phase connector will pop out of the back window...

    attachment.php?attachmentid=2319&d=1313099196.jpg
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  • Aug 11, 2011
    vfx
    Yeah, real proof!
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  • Aug 11, 2011
    Eberhard
    you have should taken mennekes type 2 with 63A = 44kW
    �
  • Aug 20, 2011
    TEG
    OK, rightside up coming out of the pop-out tail-light, with the new combo socket...
    combocharge.jpg
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  • Aug 22, 2011
    markwj
    [?IMG]

    Can't see anywhere for a front charge port.

    P.S. Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    Kevin Harney
    That is because Franz said it would be in the rear :) LOL
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    vfx
    Proof?
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  • Aug 23, 2011
    bonnie
    -sigh- you were a difficult child, weren't you?
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    DaveD
    were?
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    NigelM
    You know the sun will come up in the morning, but you don't have proof that it will. That lack of proof is unlikely to cause you a sleepless night (I hope!). Sometimes knowledge without proof is good enough....

    It's behind the tail-light like TEG said.:biggrin:
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    bonnie
    I thought the glass was really just one big solar panel, enough to power the car. We don't need no stinkin' charging port.
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  • Aug 24, 2011
    AnOutsider
    in the 50% chance you're being serious vs annoying:

    Model S: Designing the Perfect Endurance Athlete | Blog | Tesla Motors

    That makes what? The 50th time now?
    �
  • Aug 24, 2011
    Kevin Harney
    Um no he is just being annoying ....
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  • Aug 24, 2011
    vfx
    This is my favorite thread ever!
    �
  • Aug 24, 2011
    AnOutsider
    You won't be at the beta ride event will you?
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  • Sep 13, 2011
    W.Petefish
    They're set to release some more info in the next few weeks. I think the charging connector location and type will be released then.
    �
  • Sep 14, 2011
    doug
    In the next few weeks, many should see it in person, so perhaps a moot point by then.
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  • Sep 14, 2011
    widodh
    They might put duct tape on it, so we won't be able to see where it is.

    "If you can't fix it with duct tape, you haven't used enough!" ;)

    OT: I guess most of our questions will be answered in two weeks.
    �
  • Sep 16, 2011
    Larry Chanin
    Hi,

    I notice that Franz references a single charge port location. Since there has been a lot of advertising regarding a 45 minute charging option, I wonder if that means the port will have to accommodate multiple connector types. If so, that would result in one big ugly door. Since Franz says the charge port door hides when not in use, Nigel's comment regarding hiding it behind the tail light makes a lot of sense, particulary if multiple connectors are being concealed.

    Larry
    �
  • Sep 16, 2011
    AnOutsider
    I could see that. I hope the light assembly doesn't just do something like slide right (or left) though. If it's not flush with the car body, it's one more thing to trip over or bump into
    �
  • Sep 16, 2011
    Larry Chanin
    Hi,

    Agreed, and obviously it should have a remote locking release to minimize tampering.

    When I was a kid I remember fiddling with the tail light release latch of a 56' Chevy to gain access to the gas filler cap. :redface:

    Larry
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    TEG
    Notice the little 'notch' at the front end of the tail-light in this picture? :
    attachment.php?attachmentid=2731&d=1317389511.png
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    Yeah. Slightly OT, but, it's a very strange looking concoction of a tail-light assembly! What's what - turn signal, brake light, reverse indicator - over here? What's that steel chrome (or black?) bit? Non-functional (more to do with the charge port)??
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    Adm
    I think I see a curved line on top of the quarter panel (is that what it's called?) up and right of the wheel. I can imagine something lifting out of the panel. I'd feel rather silly if it is just a reflection, but there might be something there.
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    zdre
    I suspect it is under the tail light. Since the tail light is most likely LED, it can be very thin, and may open up just like a filler door. The modules would be switched from inside the trunk.
    I guess we only have to wait a day to find out...

    P.S. I didn't realize that I am posting today for the first time... I've been lurking around the forums since early 2010
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    TEG
    If you are talking about that long arc, I think it is just a (simulated) reflection.

    I was talking about this piece:
    th_notch.jpg
    It looks new (for the Betas) and wasn't on the concept car or Alphas.
    It looks like it could swivel/pivot/pop out...
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    Doug_G
    I think you've got it, TEG. That element looks just a little out of place, and is about the right size for a hidden charge port.
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    Citizen-T
    Agreed. Though, they did say it would be on the back of the car, on the driver's side. That is definitely the side of the car, right?
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    strider
    Remember that these are CGI renderings, not real pictures. So there may be more or less detail on the actual cars. Also, the fake lighting they add to the rendering can make things appear that aren't actually there. All will be revealed soon :)
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    Doug_G
    Yep. I'm certain that is it. We'll see very soon!
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    WhiteKnight
    Rumor has it that Elon is not happy with the tail light design. I don't know if that was before or after this rendition. So the look of the tail lights might still change.
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    VolkerP
    Welcome to the forum as a posting member! How to pronounce your name, like Cidre?
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    AnOutsider
    I'd have to share his sentiments. They're not bad, but in the renderings, they're my least favorite part of the car
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    Nik
    I think the info was that it was 'at the back' rather than 'on the back' The tail light is certainly at the back.
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    Larry Chanin
    I agree that I think the location is behind the taillight. However, wasn't it advertised that the Model S would have a fast charging option? If so, doesn't that small section of the taillight look too small to house either a combination plug or multiple plugs?

    Maybe a larger section of the taillight would be used.

    Larry
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    TEG
    There seem to be one of those on each side. Maybe one side is AC and the other is DC?
    Just random speculation. For all I know they will turn out to be reflectors and not charge ports at all...
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    green01
    Not only was the Design Studio added to the Tesla website but apparently updates to the Model S "Features" section was added.

    "Scan the streamlined body panels and you�ll discover that Model S lacks a fuel door. Approach the driver�s side taillight holding a connector and something surprising happens: a triangle opens to reveal a small charge port. The connectors enable, from one Tesla-designed port, rapid charging as well as charging from 240 volt and 120 volt outlets...."

    It seems they'll need to offer adapters for this custom Tesla connector for J-1772 and Chademo charging sites.
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    vfx
    How cool is that?
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    Larry Chanin
    Wow!! That's a very compact port to permit rapid (DC?) charging as well as 120 and 240 volt charging from that small triangle.

    Larry
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    ckessel
    No idea where you're seeing that :(. I've searched the Features page and can't find any such wording.

    Edit: Ah, in the drop down when you hover under model S. Click on Model S and it's not one of the choices on the page after...that page hasn't changed. Tesla really needs a good web master.
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    AnOutsider
    Very cool! Can't wait to see that and the door handles tomorrow. Curious to see how "seamless" it all is. I keep picturing my dogs walking up to their doggy doors and it not recognizing their collars. I refuse to stare at my car and bark.
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    SByer
    I'm betting that since it's their own design and their own adapter cables, that connections are being re-used on the car side like we've talked about elsewhere. Easier to multiplex when you're not worried about someone else mucking the communications up.
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    Indeed! *vfx*, now, do you believe?! ;)
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    Norbert
    Neat!
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    vfx
    I need to see it.
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    doug
    So the connector has an RFID tag in it?
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  • Sep 30, 2011
    TEG
    UMC2.0:
    umc2_0.jpg
    So, I suppose that oval end plugs directly into the pop-out tail-light socket?
    �
  • Sep 30, 2011
    TEG
  • Sep 30, 2011
    dpeilow
  • Oct 1, 2011
    AndrewBissell
    @dpeilow haven't you previously mentioned that adapters are forbidden in Europe between the EVSE and the car. With type2 it's OK - just have the right cable. But with CHAdeMO model S is locked out?
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  • Oct 1, 2011
    AndrewBissell
    Based on the quoted "240-volt outlet....recharged at the rate of 62 miles range per hour" it does NOT support 3-phase. Can't quite tell from the UMC 2.0 picture how many pins on the plug.
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  • Oct 1, 2011
    William13
    European delivery is at least 6 months later than USA. Plenty of time for a three phase.
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  • Oct 1, 2011
    AndrewBissell
    Not if the socket doesn't support it.

    But that remains to be seen. I am open-minded, hopeful but cautiously pessimistic.
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    dsm363
    How exactly will you plug in a J1772 when traveling? I hope it is not another adapter that hangs on the ground.
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    William13
    Europe could have a different socket. Not that they should.
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  • Oct 1, 2011
    doug
    Hard to tell the size scale, but seems if it were just a little bit larger, it would have been able to fit Mennekes Type 2 directly. Looks like a similar shape. Having to deal with a pigtail adapter is a bit disappointing.
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  • Oct 1, 2011
    doug
    Ruh-row... I think Eberhard is coming, right?
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    W.Petefish
    I'd say he'll be posting shortly. Still thats the perfect location for a charge port.
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    jkirkebo
    I disagree. The Leaf has the perfect charge port location IMHO. I always hoped the Model S would have the port behind the nose cone. There would have been ample space for a CHAdeMO connector there too...
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    scanman57
    Model S details on TeslaMotors website today

    Charging port is hidden on Model S .....drivers taillight...cool. Going to test ride today!
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    doug
    Yeah, for ease with public charging, I would say on the right front fender since in the US we tend to park nose in and parallel park on the right.
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  • Oct 1, 2011
    Citizen-T
    I doubt I'll be doing much of any public charging with how much range this thing gets. If I do I'll back into the spot. The one or two times that I'll ever need to parallel park and charge, I'll deal with running the cable.

    I have to live with how the car looks every single day. I'm glad they didn't put the charge port on the nose.
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    doug
    I basically agree. That's why I specified public charging and was just saying for EVs general. If you're always charging at home you probably don't care about having a non-standard charging connector either.
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    TEG
    That is where Ford had put the charging port on their old Ranger EV:
    [?IMG]
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  • Oct 1, 2011
    TEG
    It looks like the UMC2.0 has thinner wire than the HPC & even UMC1.0
    Do they use some more conductive (less resistive) type of material so it doesn't have to be as heavy of gauge wire?
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    W.Petefish
    Are you thinking some sort of copper alloy?
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  • Oct 1, 2011
    AndrewBissell
    Carbon nanotubes?
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    doug
    No, they were probably just overspeced the gauge and/or the insulation. The Mennekes cable for similar current (likely ~40 Amps) is about the same thickness as this new UMC.
    �
  • Oct 1, 2011
    jkirkebo
    I'll do a lot of public charging if I ever get one, most of it CHAdeMO. So I'm waiting for some info on how's that going to work...
    �
  • Oct 2, 2011
    doug
    6204569694_3cc3ef2d9a_b.jpg
    �
  • Oct 2, 2011
    vfx
    As we were standing at the plug-and-box table JB walked up. (really cool guy by the way) Within a few minutes Eberhard was there. I left so don't know if there was a redux meeting between them.
    �
  • Oct 2, 2011
    vfx
    Agreed. The charging guy was agreeing to that that the Roadster stuff was all overspeced. I don't blame them a bit though. If anything had happened...
    �
  • Oct 2, 2011
    cinergi
    That question came up; the gauge didn't change, just the insulation. What was shown wasn't production, either -- not as flexible as they're shooting for, and the connector-swapping capabilities weren't there yet (which are supposed to be more like the universal connectors you see on devices made for international use e.g. Apple power bricks).
    �
  • Oct 2, 2011
    William13
    They will have short adapters for other charging plugs. Their difficulty will be in sensing what the safe draw is from a CHadmo etc. They have not yet made the connectors but have drawn them and will need to extensively test them. It seemed he was unsure if they would all be available at launch. I expect that the Tesla HPC connector is next after their cords that were shown.
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  • Oct 2, 2011
    TEG
    There might be a better thread for this, but just thought I would toss out this picture of the old charging system on the old Alpha prototypes:
    socket2.jpg
    Roadster HPC and/or prototype DC I assume.
    (But only with the trunk lid open.)
    �
  • Oct 2, 2011
    vfx
    Exactly as I described. :) !!
    �
  • Oct 2, 2011
    TEG
    DPeilow seemed keen to know where exactly the charger(s) go.
    They sit in this tray under the rear seats:
    chargeplace.jpg
    Basically where those colored cords are in this bare chassis.
    One side would be empty with the base model with only 10kW.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    Tommy
  • Oct 6, 2011
    ckessel
    Nice. Looks better than the other shots I'd seen. I do wish the port was on both sides or you could order the car built with it on one side versus the other. Where I'm going to park versus where the outlet will be means I'll be draping the cord across the back of the car every night :(.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    jcstp
    sorry, but this chargeport looks fragile!
    If it's in plastic, I am sure 1 in 5 will be ripped off due to negligance!
    I wonder what happens when the port gets ripped open by simple power of the wind or when the magnet loses adhesion!
    In my mind it opens wrong!
    it's not for nothing that doors in cars opening this way, are called suicide-doors!
    some wise men said once "work with nature, instaid of against it" , this is an example i guess
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    ckessel
    An aside, but they're called suicide doors because of how they'd work while the car was in motion. The wind would suck them open if they opened a bit. If you fell out, the door clobbers you as you fall.

    The charge port isn't going to be open while in motion. Well, at least not under expected use :).
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    EV_de
    agree, a sliding door would be better ..
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  • Oct 6, 2011
    doug
    Blue LEDs again (though TEG may call them white). Odd that the locking tab is extended without the plug inserted.

    [?IMG]
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  • Oct 6, 2011
    ckessel
    I like that idea much better. Didn't even occur to me.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    doug
    I assume you're talking about the charge port door (and not the inlet itself).
    In person it felt sturdy enough. I don't think the surface area is large enough for the wind to rip it off of anything like that.

    I do, however, worry about the door getting in the way of adapters and the inlet being study enough to support them. Perhaps the door could pop out and rotate out of the way like the Ford Focus charge port door does.

    aFocusElectric_43t.jpg

    Though Ford's door is circular, it doesn't have to be circular to open that way.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    EV_de
    I though more like a airplain door ... slight move back then sideway or down ...

    or like a real door move outside ..

    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    As I digest this more after the weekend event, I'm not feeling this hidden-chargeport-with-the-flimsy-looking-door at all. Sure, Tesla has gone out of their way to make it a hidden thing but, in the process, in my opinion, they might have wrecked the look of the taillights to begin with apart from all the adapter problems that this entails. The taillights, atleast from the side, look like they were conceived of by my 5-year old :-(
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    TEG
    Is that an electromagnet they are using to hold the flap closed?
    Wouldn't it need to constantly use power to keep it closed that way?
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    Doug_G
    I was surprised that they made the door a different color (red versus black) from the rest of the assembly's side. As a reflector the shape is goofy, and it makes the thing look rather mickey mouse.

    Hopefully what we saw is preliminary; there's no reason why they can't make an organic reflector shape that ignores the shape of the door itself. It would look a heck of a lot better.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    vfx
    The door has the magnet.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    Doug_G
    Not necessarily. The problem here is opening it, and there are lots of ways they could detach it from a permanent magnet. A solenoid could retract the magnet or push the door away slightly. You don't have to move very far for the magnet to pop loose.

    Another cool method would be to use an electromagnet to reverse the field and push the door away. Of course the door has to have the permanent magnet on it for that to work.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    Exactly! If they do want that piece around as a reflector (rather than be the same shiny chrome/black bit next to it), then, why not take the hinge of the chargeport door all the way to the top?

    Sorta' like this (pardon my primitive effort here):

    extendeddoor.png

    I couldn't find a photo of the door closed but, if someone can find that and photoshop it properly to extend the red reflector all the way up, it'll look a lot better.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    Here's another valiant attempt (on the other side actually):

    chargeportdoor.jpg

    Looks more proportional, in my opinion, than that little thing that looks so out of place:

    chargeportdoor-current.jpg
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    TEG
    Ah... That would make sense. The door magnet holds onto the metal bit on the frame, and then a reverse field electromagnet fires up when it wants to push the door back open. Can't tell from the picture, but that seems like a possibility.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    vfx
    As I said before the white car door example was self powered in the hinge. You had to hold it closed. No pushing going on.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    TEG
    That was my first thought - it has a spring in the hinge, and an electromagnet to hold it shut, but then it would take power all the time it was closed, and the electromagnet would likely wear out eventually from nearly 24x7 duty cycle. Instead say it still has the spring, but then a strong enough permanent magnet to hold it closed when you push it against the metal bit on the lens frame. Then it still has an electromagnet, but only one that is used momentarily when it is asked to push (rather than pull) the door enough to overcome the smaller field that normally holds it in place. Once that magnetic push gets it away from the lens then the spring can take over and open it the rest of the way. So you have a spring trying to pull it open, but a small magnet trying to hold it closed, but then an electromagnet and the spring gang up on the permanent magnet and force it back open again, on demand.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    vfx
    I should say the guy there told me it was a magnet. I did not check it with anything ferrous. It seems to have a matching disc in the car.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    Doug_G
    Yeah, that definitely looks better.
    �
  • Oct 6, 2011
    Doug_G
    The electromagnet won't wear out as there would be no moving parts. My concern is that it would be a continuous power draw. But yes, the field reversal thing is exactly what I was suggesting in #213.
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  • Oct 6, 2011
    TEG
    I guess you could get a 100% duty cycle one. But still it creates some heat... If you subjected the car to extreme temps and left it on, I could imagine a heat related failure like insulation cracking or something like that.
    �
  • Oct 24, 2011
    doug
    From the Houston Chronicle:
    [?IMG]
    �
  • Oct 24, 2011
    dsm363
    I thought the charge port on on the left side of the car (rear tail light)? Is this a second port?
    �
  • Oct 24, 2011
    AnOutsider
    That picture is of the drivers side tail light
    �
  • Oct 24, 2011
    dsm363
    Ah. Sorry. When I looked at it this morning, I thought it was the back of the car. Thanks.
    �
  • Oct 24, 2011
    VolkerP
    Now I can see how Daimler is to help with the supply chain...
    MB-Port.jpg
    �
  • Oct 24, 2011
    vfx
  • Oct 25, 2011
    NigelM
    See the door opening at 4'45"....

    BTW, a little misleading when they say the first electric vehicle over 300 miles and then state that it will cost $50,000 after the tax credit.
    �
  • Oct 25, 2011
    dsm363
    At that 4:45 time, they do say the 300 mile range will cost 'about $20,000 more' than the base price.
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  • Oct 25, 2011
    NigelM
    True. I was referring to the intro blah blah....
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  • Oct 25, 2011
    TEG
    chargeport1.jpg
    �
  • Oct 25, 2011
    VolkerP
    CEE color coded charge port:
    Ring of blue LED is for 240V single phase
    EU model has red LED, signaling 400V 3 phase
    3ph-Port.jpg
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  • Oct 25, 2011
    TEG
    Yeah, right!
    Oh, and we better consult Doug to see if the LEDs in the picture I posted are blue or white...
    �
  • Oct 25, 2011
    TEG
    Oddly reminded me of some sort of holiday ornament...
    santahi2.jpg
    ree_LED_Light_Santa_Claus_Light_LED_colorful_night_light_Super_Deals_for_Christmas_free_shipping.jpg
    �
  • Oct 25, 2011
    Norbert
    Hope you are not trying to suggest a change to Dec 2012. :wink:
    �
  • Oct 26, 2011
    TEGed

    attachment.php?attachmentid=2522&d=1315506946.jpg
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  • Oct 26, 2011
    NigelM
    I didn't see that, but did see this:
    attachment.php?attachmentid=3228&d=1319628264.jpg
    Untitled.jpg
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  • Oct 26, 2011
    AnOutsider
    Haha! Thanks, now I'll see that whenever I charge.
    �
  • Oct 26, 2011
    TEG
    I think I just got "NIGELMed"...

    �
  • Oct 26, 2011
    doug
    ???
    Now I'm no longer clear on the definition of TEGed.
    �
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