Sep 30, 2012
onlinespending I would personally prefer a pay-as-you-go arrangement. If they want to charge $1k for the SC hardware, but include the hardware with the 85 kWh option, that's fine. But I feel everyone should pay their fair share when and if they use the supercharger. As it is now, 60 kWh owners are subsidizing the cost for 85 kWh owners and to a lesser extent those that use it infrequently subsidize the cost for those that currently live closer to SC's and would use it far more frequently.
AnOutsider brought up the great idea of "paying through the touchscreen", which would enable you to use the SC. Even if there is no data connection at the moment, the Model S could simply store the fact that a charge was attempted and finalize the transaction once the car returns to an area with cellular data.�
Sep 30, 2012
doug I'm guessing the margins are such that it's the other way around.�
Sep 30, 2012
kevincwelch I like that idea as well...maybe down the road for Tesla. I can see how it would complicate the issue, however.�
Oct 1, 2012
VolkerP I am glad Tesla dissed the pay-as-you-go approach for supercharging. The blogs are full of stories where charging & billing at an EV charge spot just didn't work out.
"I finally found a charge post but I didn't have a subscription/RFID card required for that network. So I phoned the toll-free number on that post but didn't get through."
"According to instructions, I went inside and asked. The staff had a Blink card but they never activated it."
"I phoned the operator, he could see the error message, but couldn't make the EVSE work remotely. He dispatched a service technician who would look into the problem within 2-3 days."
"The credit card swipe finally worked. I was charged $4 for electricity but an additional $7 in transaction fees."
"I could have activated the EVSE but my smart phone ran out of juice just the moment before and I didn't have the mobile charger with me."
No thanks. :tongue:�
Oct 1, 2012
ckessel Given gas stations are pay as you go and the world seems pretty successful getting that to work, the problem sounds like the ineptitude of the charging providers rather than a problem with the pay as you go model.�
Oct 1, 2012
bonnie Gas stations are rarely unattended. There is almost always a person available to intervene if you cannot get the 'pay at the pump' option to work. I'd really hate to think of the costs if we required an attendant for each set of charging stations.
And I have experienced NOT getting gas at a station in southern CA - unattended, only took debit cards (and I only had a credit card handy).�
Oct 1, 2012
ckessel Granted, it happens, but we have lots of examples of unattended card based things that work. Vending machines often take cards. Parking meters. Light rail tickets (MAX in Portland, BART I think in San Francisco).
My point is just that paying at the point of service without human intervention is a pretty well solved problem, so if the current EV charging stations have problems handling it then I'd think it's a problem with the business rather than the payment model.�
Oct 1, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Speaking of unattended, I have this fear at the back of my mind that these unattended SC sites are prime targets for vandalism - most likely for the sake of it. Some folks around there may be jealous of these fancy cars pulling up every so often. The acts of vandalism may be no more than graffiti and such.
Anyone share this concern? Repairs/cleanup would all be on poor Tesla...�
Oct 1, 2012
vfx
Cameras?�
Oct 1, 2012
NuclearPowered How about just taking a hacksaw or bolt cutters to the supercharger cable? There are plenty of EV haters out there.�
Oct 1, 2012
Lloyd It should requrie the presence of a Tesla Key to open the supercharger door. + cameras, Motion sensor lighting, Signs for silent alarms, Paint sniffers, and anything else we can think of for security.�
Oct 1, 2012
Tempus Just get a couple of ED-209's at each station.�
Oct 1, 2012
vfx Security gaurd.
�
Oct 1, 2012
ModelS1079 Can we now let this thread RIP with George's (amazing) retraction of the fee for 60kWh owners? Though the security guard designs to follow that pic above should be good...�
Oct 2, 2012
Brian H Was just now reading thru some of these threads to try and keep up, and appreciated your comment/summary. Then appreciated your closing quip ... but then thought, 'Wait a mo'; who is paying who 2� here?'RU paying to express your opinion? I thought you should be 2� heavier because you were getting paid for enlightening us! :wink:
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But, how will they load the gold/diamonds/iridium etc. then?? :crying::tongue:�
Oct 2, 2012
Brian H Sloppy. Wrong. There are a couple of stations on the Windsor-Mtl. corridor, and one north of Vancouver (?? as close as I can tell) in the 2013 map.
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The obvious conclusion is that full SC was priced into the 85s from the beginning, but not the 60s.
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HHm ... one of the "abilities" of the software is compensating for such change, but requiring tailored parameter input/code for each car?
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Requires specific tracking of each car, and switching connection on/off at time of access = almost same infrastructure/admin as per-use charging. And/or assumes that TM is lying about impossibility of post facto activation/de-activation.
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Indeed. But... what the SC enables is the possibility of trans-continental travel without having to resort to longish stop-overs or ICE rental. That has value completely aside from "free-ness".�
Oct 2, 2012
Brian H Expanding a bit on my observation above, leaving options/choices open has value in and of itself. Circumstances and priorities change; maybe in 5 yrs. you'll want or need l.d. access to charging.
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The arrangement with Solar City obviates all that, it seems to me. SC pays the bills, but makes a profit by installing and selling surplus.�
Oct 9, 2012
radiod77 Can you please provide a link to this (amazing) retraction? I don't remember seeing it in this thread.�
Oct 9, 2012
ckessel The fee wasn't retracted, it was waived for those that have already finalized. For anyone that hasn't finalized and for all future potential 60kwh purchasers, the debate about the value of the supercharger pricing is still very relevant.�
Oct 9, 2012
markb1 I've put links to GeorgeB's posts in the first post of this thread.�
Oct 10, 2012
ModelS1079 The fee was instated (announced at $1000 reduced fee for those 60kWh drivers already w MVPA signed, $2000 for all 60kWh drivers to follow) and retracted in about 48 hours...and there was much rejoicing. I was impressed by George's note both explaining the fee and, then, days later, explaining its complete retraction for those with MVPA signed by that time (fee stands at 2K for all who follow). Two points of possible interest:
1. I spoke w George B the night before the announcement and I believe he was uncomfortable talking with me about the pending announcement, as I was speaking with him then (among other topics) about the how the car was awesome but expensive and a reach for me and others, and that I was getting a 60kWh car to save $. I bet he felt the fee had not been well-communicated. I was aware a fee was coming but agree it was poorly communicated. Bet he felt good retracting the fee...
2. My how the times change - just came across this, from the Tesla site June, 2010: "With far fewer moving parts than an internal combustion engine, the motor, transaxle, inverter, and rear suspension system will be contained within one sub-assembly that can be bolted into the Model S in one step. The liquid-cooled battery pack, with quick release fluid connections will be installed in a matter of seconds. The battery pack provides the final structural element to the body. With this engineering feat, you'll be able to quickly swap an empty battery for a full one, should the need arise on long road trips."
That's clearly from before the supercharge option was really a serious consideration. Battery swapping seems almost silly in comparison...�
Oct 11, 2012
Robert.Boston The pros/cons of battery swapping vs. supercharging have been debated extensively and vociferously in the Better Place thread, starting generally around this post.�
May 3, 2013
imjustdave Tesla Super Charging network.. now cost $$
So I was looking online at the cars and the 40KW is not even an option to buy now.... But with the 60KW battery car the super charging network is $2,000 add on... WTF I could have sworn a few months ago 60KW up included the supercharging network and were capable of using it.. Am I missing something or did I recall wrong?�
May 3, 2013
Banahogg See this thread for much, much more on the topic: Supercharging option pricing/60 kWh pack fee discussion�
May 3, 2013
SFOTurtle The title of this thread is misleading because it incorrectly suggest that there has been no recent change in the supercharging policy. To enable supercharging for 60 kWh cars prior to delivery has been $2000 since last September.�
May 3, 2013
AnOutsider agreed. merging these.�
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