Dec 23, 2015
dirkhh Duh, of course. Silly me. That makes perfect sense. He was just one of the first P90Ds to confirm the order once it opened for production reservations...
With the above this is much more reasonable. Have you received a VIN, yet? Have you bugged your DS about a delivery time frame? Just because he has a VIN doesn't mean he'll get it before you...
I'm pretty sure we'll see production cars delivered before all of the Sigs will be delivered - simply because some Sigs still haven't ordered/confirmed.�
Dec 23, 2015
flyhigh123
you forgot the.
d) i can afford to pay this all cash, but should i save the cash for an investment and finance it with monthly payments?�
Dec 23, 2015
FlasherZ I don't bug them because it tends to piss them off.
I ordered within an hour of getting the e-mail. I have a VIN. I noted above that my DS has told me a couple of times (just keeping in contact w/ me, with one within the past 2 weeks) that I was one of a few cars expected to be delivered before the end of the year from the service center, but another (not affiliated with the service center) told me that it would be a miracle if that happened based on what she/he saw.
When I say "production cars delivered before sig cars will make me angry", I refer only to those people who were timely and had their orders in and confirmed before they opened production configurability. That seems reasonable.�
Dec 23, 2015
dirkhh Oh, I think there are dozens more permutations... people who lease, people who take out a home equity loan, whatever... I was trying to classify the "relative wealth" or "relative significance of the purchase". It is pretty obvious that there are quite a few 0.1%ers around here. Which is totally fine - it just may mean that their decision making process is slightly different.�
Dec 23, 2015
dsm363 100 was the infamous Eds max number that would be delivered. Think they will get more as well.�
Dec 23, 2015
dirkhh Duh, missed that one. The whole Eds thing happened while I was taking a break from TMC - and since he had most of his posts deleted it's kinda hard to reconstruct exactly what he claimed...�
Dec 23, 2015
bobbykansara 1. I never received notification of my VIN #. Someone on the other forum who has a production res. posted that they got a VIN today. So I checked my.tesla page and lo and behold there was a vin # there. There wasn't one there before today.
2. My VIN does not have either an S or a P. There is, however, an "F".
3. I have never contacted my DS or anyone else about this reservation. I don't even know who my DS is, tbh.
4. Just because I have this VIN which has a low number, does not mean I will get my car before any of the sigs. I do NOT expect my car this year. I was HOPING for early February. But I have no idea since I have never contacted a DS or anyone else at tesla. I am of the belief that the phone calls will get annoying so I just don't.
Sorry to to have thrown a grenade into the room. But I was just excited.�
Dec 23, 2015
timf Production VINs use six digits now without the P. So, instead of something like S00123, they have an extra leading zero such as 000123. These directly proceed the letters "GF", indicating model year (2016) and factory (Fremont).�
Dec 23, 2015
FlasherZ You likely have a production VIN. Last 6 chars. Snnnnn = signature, Fnnnnn = founders, nnnnnn = production. Tesla Model S originally used Pnnnnn but switched to all-numbers as they approached 100k cars.
I recognize this, I was just reliving my Model S frustration at having put down the extra money for signature (which turned out to be a tax as well) and ended up getting my car after a bunch of production cars got theirs. I don't want that to happen again.�
Dec 23, 2015
vangogh Just got a call back from my DS after leaving a couple of emails....
Said my X was at the tail end of the line and was still shooting for an end of year (2015) factory delivery.
Said as soon as it was cleared by quality control, they could schedule a pick up time....
I am soooooooo hoping for an end of the year delivery.....
Sig Red, 6 seat, all Black Interior, carbon fiber decor, 20" silver wheels, Towing, Cold Weather, Ludicrous
Reserved 4/2013 VIN S0027X�
Dec 23, 2015
bobbykansara My VIN definitely has three leading zeros. As such, I believe the F stands for Fremont. No reason for Tesla to give me a Founder's car (yet) since I'm no one important (yet....).
�
Dec 23, 2015
dwebb66 According to the documents that I have seen the production vins do contain the P (just like they production model S's did until they reached 99999 cars in that sequence.
I can can not test the following link as GoGoWireless does not want to load the PDF
ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/MfrMail/ORG11230.pdf
If a prodution vin holder can confirm...�
Dec 23, 2015
Odiguy This is the best vin decoder I have found, you can plug in your vin and it will break it down for you... VIN Decoder | TeslaTap�
Dec 23, 2015
EVenthusiast That PDF shows the 12th digit being an F, followed by 5 digits. So the PDF isn't accurate (unless they plan on resetting the counter every year), or someone is getting a Founder's model�
Dec 23, 2015
bobbykansara I clicked on the link and the "F" in my VIN stands for the factory (Fremont); the position normally occupied by S for signature or F for founder is a 0 in my VIN. Therefore, @timf is correct that my VIN is clearly a production VIN.
I am sorry to any of the signature reservation holders that felt any consternation over this. I would also be hurt/annoyed if I "lent" Tesla that kind of money only to be jumped in line by someone with a lot less money paid up front.
Also so that people are aware: I specifically ordered the configuration that would get me the car fastest. I wasn't originally planning on ordering the P90D, but when I saw that a "vanilla" 90D would be a longer wait, I ordered the P. BTW, nothing wrong with Vanilla; it's my daughter's fave ice cream flavor
So happy holidays, and may this nugget of information let you know that your signature cars are just over the horizon (since my production car is getting closer to reality). May they get to you at Ludicrous speed!�
Dec 23, 2015
hill I know that there's a nice map/data base showing MX & MS's - but it doesn't get updated very regularly .... not a complaint. But has anyone with more initiative than I considered launching a semi public Google spreadsheet - member ID, X order date, confirmation date, delivery date, location, last 4 #'s of VIN, color, options (charger, seating, towing, pack size) etc? The early Leafers have one & it's pretty interesting. Just a thought .... simpler than burdening one poor soul for map inclusion.
.�
Dec 23, 2015
CmdrThor https://modelxtracker.com/�
Dec 23, 2015
Aljohn Glad to see that P holders are getting VIN's and starting the process.
For those Signature owners concerned with delivery priority -- I was in the local SC chatting with the manager. He said they have STRICT orders NOT to deliver any Production orders (even if they arrive) before Signatures are done. So even is the manufacturing and shipping causes Signatures and Productions to arrive at the same time or cross, Productions will not be delivered. This may be the reason that some X's are showing up at the SC and the reservation holder hasn't been contacted. It seems Tesla learned from the issues with the S.�
Dec 23, 2015
ptsagcy I understand and agree that Sig's should be manufactured and delivered before Production cars, HOWEVER, if I found out that Tesla chose to build my production car and it was sitting in storage for weeks or months waiting for the Sig's to be built and delivered, I'd be furious. I have no problem waiting my turn for manufacture but nothing good happens to a car that sits unattended for a significant period of time so I would be one very unhappy customer.�
Dec 23, 2015
dsm363 That would be very unlikely. I could see a week or two delay to attempt to deliver most of the Sigs first. Some people got really bent out of shape that a production car was delivered before a Sig even if it was only a few days with the Model S.�
Dec 23, 2015
FarmerDave The only thing VIN assignment means in terms of building the car is that the order is confirmed and has been released to Production. It has nothing to do with the order in which the cars are built except F > S > P (except for Founder-by-referral which gets mixed in with the Sigs).�
Dec 23, 2015
dirkhh I actually developed a fun crazy theory... here it goes.
Tesla will build all the US Sigs that have been ordered / confirmed by... whatever, today.
Then they will build a few hundred Model X that will go to the different stores as test drive cars.
That should give them a couple of days to get the Sigs ready to be delivered and either two the customers (West Coast) or have delivery dates settled with the customers (rest of the country).
Now they will start making / delivering the first P90DL production reservations.
That would be a reasonably logical and useful way to avoid the "my Sig was delivered after that production car" issue without having to artificially park production cars... and it will give the urgently needed test drive cars to the stores... they want those there rather soon because quite a few Sig reservation holders are waiting for a hands on experience before clicking the button...�
Dec 23, 2015
aesculus This makes sense to me. There are still a lot of people who have not seen or sat in one of the cars yet and are on the fence deciding to pull the trigger or bail. Getting everyone comfortable, and in the order they reserved, should be a priority.�
Dec 23, 2015
AlMc Dirk.....That makes WAY to much sense............:wink:�
Dec 23, 2015
n88 I think you are right on track... and would only embellish a bit, thinking like a CFO:
Get as many Sigs out by year end to max year end statements (and to stick it to Eds, but sadly, it looks like those #s are on target)
For Q1 2016, deliver remaining Sigs and determine which SCs have the most reservations and un-ordered X's and ship demos to those sites first to max out reservation conversions, then to other SCs in order of ratio of un-ordered/reservations.
Then, start making production P90D's for delivery, as VINs just issued for as high as 28xx production P90Ds just announced.
Then, and here's a big assumption... that the take rate on P90Ds is a lot lower on the X than the S, 90Ds will then be produced, earlier than originally stated. It would make sense since the X is more family oriented and fewer buyers will opt for the uber performance model.
Naturally, this is all wishful thinking to get my 90D faster!�
Dec 23, 2015
hill Umm - maybe I failed to articulate the 1st sentence of the post you quoted, as this is the exact map i'd already hoped to see better developed - by suggesting a Google spreadsheet - quickly accessible by all members. I guess I was wrong - not the 1st time
.�
Dec 23, 2015
KenN I know it's juvenile, but this made me giggle.�
Dec 23, 2015
BillC Been given 12/29 delivery Sig X 10 AM Fremont. I hope it's firm cause I traded in my MS at SC today and fly to SFO Sunday!�
Dec 23, 2015
Cosmacelf Sig vin 22x, got a call today that I could pick it up at factory on 12/26, that's like 3 days warning over Christmas! No problem, Tesla, yeah, I have $120k lying around with like 1/2 business day before delivery! Luckily, I outsmarted Tesla and did in fact have $120k lying around...
I put in my info on modelxtracker.com. FYI, it took me a while to figure out where to put in my delivery date info!�
Dec 23, 2015
ItsNotAboutTheMoney So what you're saying is "OMG! OMG! OMG! I'm getting my X in 3 days!" Or something like that.�
Dec 23, 2015
SCModelX RIGHT?!?!?! That's exactly what they're sayin'!! Congrats!!�
Dec 23, 2015
MaxK I can relate. I got the call 48 hours ago and picked up tonight. I do count myself lucky to have the cash available to write a check on short notice and glad I didn't have to wrap of financing in 48 hours.
I had surgery this morning and came out of general anesthesia at noon, but there was not way I was missing my delivery time after waiting nearly 3 years.�
Dec 23, 2015
SCModelX
YES!!! The floodgates are seeming to be opening!! (I'd do the same FYI. I pushed my honeymoon back 2 days to attend the last minute invite the the reveal in Fremont. We're crazy like that!)
- - - Updated - - -
So, what about THIS?!?!!? My VIN was released today... umm ... STOKED!! Then I see the VIN and it's F0004xx... Ummm, I've been WAY upgraded?!?!? WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN... haha!�
Dec 23, 2015
pvogel The F in that position is for the manufacturing location (Fremont), if it were for Founder you'd have less than 6 digits after the F�
Dec 23, 2015
Cosmacelf Yes, that is what I'm thinking. Thanks for decoding that!�
Dec 23, 2015
omarsultan I have heard a couple of SvCs mention Feb/March timeframe for getting an MX into the showroom, but I think the priority will still be to work off the backlog as quickly as possible. One of the thing analysts are going to be looking for is a sharp ramp in MX deliveries in Q1 and siphoning off cars for demos will not help that. I do agree the timing of the 90D is going to be dependent on when they start to see a taper on P90D orders, but I think you might see a higher take rate than expected, as there are folks like me, who have a 10 year old Jeep and cannot wait until mid-year to replace it, hence, buying P90D where we might otherwise have just gotten the 90D if wait times were closer.�
Dec 24, 2015
bobbykansara Agreed. I never intended to order the P90D. This was going to be my winter car, and I'm basically a soccer dad schlepping kids who was looking for a performance oriented minivan. But when I saw that I'd have to wait longer unless I got the P, then I decided to upgrade. And for many of us who can afford to buy the 90D, I don't think it's too great a leap to just decide to spend a little more and get the P90D. And of course, once I made that leap, I couldn't resist getting the Ludicrous upgrade too. I specifically ordered the configuration that allowed me to get the car soonest. I am very excited that the dam has burst and the floodgates have opened. Congrats to all of the lucky signature owners!�
Dec 24, 2015
n88 Given past statements and quotes from Elon, I don't think TM needs or cares to placate analysts... unless A. they are planning a new stock issue, B. planning to make acquisitions using TM stock as $ or C. management is worried about being replaced, neither of which is in play at the moment. The price of TM stock otherwise is in reality meaningless to TM. Executing their business model/plan is their major goal. A 100 or so demos are insignificant as to ramp up analyst concerns and could be responsible for a multiple of new reservations for later in the year.
As far a P90D's... given there will be a skew early on of higher P90D take rates for the reasons stated, so let's look at numbers. How many X's does everyone reasonably believe will be delivered in Q1? Assuming slightly higher overall S&X production rate than Q4, and half are X's per other posts regarding current production, the # should be about 7,500 Xs by March 31. (60,000 annual / 4quarters/ 50% ). So let's be conservative and say 6,000 Xs will be delivered. Out of 25K reservations, what % will be P90Ds? Although there are a fair number of enthusiasts like ourselves who might go P90D to get the car earlier, I just don't see a 25% overall take rate among the general reservation population. So I'm predicting that there will be some 90Ds MSRP over 100K delivered in Q1 in the latter half of March. Since a lot of us are anxious to get our X's, what does everyone else think?�
Dec 24, 2015
vandacca I guess it's too late for an X mass-delivery to occur this week?�
Dec 24, 2015
CarlK The fact that they have slowed down in sending invitation to configure makes me to think that they did have enough P90D orders from the initial 10,000 or so invitations to make them busy for a while.�
Dec 24, 2015
rdalcanto Well I hope they are going to build the 90Ds from the first 10,000 reservations (that are 2+ years old) before they go deeper into the more recent orders for more P90Ds....�
Dec 24, 2015
joshua.MA I hope so too but I'm not going to hold my breath.�
Dec 24, 2015
SCModelX As previously thinking 90D, and then changing it to a P90D (for this exact reason), I highly doubt it. Why I bit the bullet on the P. Tesla said it isn't cost effective to mix productions, until all have been chewed through....�
Dec 26, 2015
omarsultan Granted Elon is less Wall Street-driven than most other CEOs out there, but they are still a publicly traded company and there are certain responsibilities and expectations (and perhaps Kabuki Theater) that come with that. In the last shareholder letter, they claimed uncertainly around MX production because of supplier issues (2nd row seats), but also claimed "steady state production capacity during Q1 as we do not foresee any significant production, design or supply chain constraints". If there is no such ramp, its going to create questions. Tesla's mission is to shift the industry, not to sell a lot of cars and their ability to do that hinges on the perception that they will eat everyone else's lunch if competitors don't get with the program--if market perception is that Tesla is a questionable as a going enterprise, its easier to marginalize them.[/QUOTE]
My totally uninformed guess, based on the fact that MS deliveries are now late Feb, is that the vast majority of delivers for the first part of Q1 will be MXs to help bleed off the backlog, then settle into a more even split. In the same Q3 shareholder letter, Tesla expected to be delivering an average of 1,600 to 1,800 vehicles (S + X) per week, so, even starting at the low end of that, its still a pretty good clip.�
Dec 26, 2015
CarlK Even though Elon said stock price is not one of his primary concerns the credibility and survival of the company is still of the utmost importance. The mix would undoubtedly targeted at maximize margin and profit. At this moment the highest margin still goes to SP90D. Among X models certainly XP90D has the highest margin. The only question is how that compares to less expensive S models.�
Dec 26, 2015
n88 I believe that applying Maslow's hierarchy of needs to a business is appropriate and therefore agree that survival is indeed TM's utmost important (most basic) goal in supporting their mission of sustainable energy and transportation. Credibility is more of a long term goal as part of their DNA, to establish and maintain sustainable productive relationships with its stakeholders, internal and external... e.g. customers, suppliers, employees, investors etc. Being profitable is certainly a key to survival, but maximizing profits, not so much, but more of an integrated strategy among finance, production and customers (rewarding those who walk the walk so to speak with priority deliveries as demonstrated with S and X order/deliveries.)
That said, that strategy most likely will not trump the real possibility of disenfranchising loyal customers with deposits dating back years, i.e. it doesn't make strategic sense to allow a 20,000 reservation for a P90D to supersede a 1,000 90D number who has been waiting for years, just because it is a P90D vs a 90D with a higher margin. I suspect they will maintain their strategy, but within limits. So far, it looks like they created a first batch of 10,000 invitees and will most likely fill those 90 orders before moving onto the next batch, which also explains why they changed deliveries of 90Ds from mid 2016 to early 2016. This probably means production is streamlined with that batch within acceptable parameters and/or the take rates of P90Ds were not as high as hoped and that they need to start producing 90Ds faster than originally planned. Again, just creating scenarios that help 'shorten' the wait time for my 90D!�
Dec 26, 2015
n88 Now that's what I call focus! Guess you don't need no stinkin' Oxycontin for post surgery if you have a Sig X delivery later that day! That should be reported to JAMA!
Congratulations on your delivery and thanks for all your availability and feedback... much appreciated... and Happy and Healthy New Year.
BTW... the pic with the children in the X... priceless. And the X was nice too.�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z Delivery - A Third Party Variable
I posted this at the Tesla Motors forum. The sharing of this information is to let others know, they are not alone in the wait for end-of-year delivery. This thread topic is the most logical place to post it at TMC during the last days of 2015. Hopefully things will improve to speed delivery in the future. You can find the original here: https://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/sound-when-you-get-call-or-email-please?page=21#comment-800805
I have posted fragments elsewhere, so anyone interested can go to my profile on TMC and read the posts. Here are my feelings from the heart, written in one sitting and at a forum with no later updates.
Based on many calls and the information gleaned from the forums, we know that some buyers are clueless to where their Model X Signature is located in the delivery process. The following is a summary based on the facts gathered. My interest is to discover why a vehicle delivery may not occur on time. When communication stops happening, doubt grows. The search for answers is found in many locations, especially when some individuals are frustrated with the system and share their concerns and knowledge about what can occur during the delivery process.
The sales department may be clueless about a delivery. During delivery, nothing about my actual vehicle location was in their notes when their computer screens were accessed.
The delivery was turned over to logistics and the delivery specialists. What happens then is in their hands and if they don't communicate with you or each other or the carrier, silence happens.
The issue is simple. Third party carriers are hired to haul these cars in the small covered transports. No large 8 car carriers are used to maximize the flow. Trains are used for the east coast, but I have no data on where the line is drawn for that. The west coast shipping is by the smaller covered trucks you have seen on the many photos posted in the forums.
There are no in-between drop off points unless a truck is delivering to multiple destinations. The Salt Lake City walk around video was proof that a vehicle may be removed temporarily to access the other.
Based from all the data gathered: IMHO, some third party carriers may not be reliable (i.e.: holiday, busy during package delivery for Christmas, sick, quit, insufficient quantity of transport companies or trucks available during peak demand and add any other reason you know from your own shipping experience).
Here is the major frustration. Getting an email from the DS on the 15th that says "soon". Discovering that the vehicle was originally planned to be arriving at the SC between 12/20 and 12/27. Visiting the SC on the 26th and no one can say that any Model X had arrived. No recent replies from DS or management. In short, because of the need to move the highly mentioned 1000+ cars by 3rd party transit (and trains) during the Christmas season, it reminds me of the FedEx news.
The only positive news in this, is that many of you have delivery specialists who are doing their best to get the cars to you in a timely manner. They are working hard, they are stressed with the task, and yes, the same people who shared the above data also mentioned that some are working 14 hour days to make things happen. Don't forget this paragraph when you are upset.
My friends, the system needs help. Just as the Fort Tejon Superchargers had a long line during the Christmas weekend, there are problems with delivery. Things happen. The weak point appears to be not enough 3rd party trucking capacity during holiday time. The system works during regular production. However, IMHO, extra Model S and X needed shipping before the end of the year. Unlike FedEx, UPS or even the USPS, we don't have tracking numbers to view on our computers. Unlike our own Model S cars, we don't have the connection to the GPS of the "Factory Mode" completed vehicles. I am unaware if Tesla Motors uses the GPS of the completed cars to track them, but if they don't, they should.
As I write this on the morning of Dec 29, there are still three working days in 2015 to get the Model X Signatures that were scheduled for Service Center arrival to their destinations. I am pleased that a fraction of the orders are being reported on the forums. Those of you who have given of your time to post your details are the lifeline of information that make going through this process understandable.
Don't forget the paragraph of 14 hour days. Have hope that the trucking companies will pickup more vehicles today, tomorrow and deliver them quickly. That the Service Centers will be ready to process the remaining Model S and X before the end of the year. And that the logistic, delivery specialists, and transportation companies will communicate to not miss one lone vehicle that sits waiting to be driven by someone who is calmly waiting for the call or email to drive their Model X home.�
Dec 29, 2015
nienco2 Thanks for the well thought out post.
RE: "The delivery was turned over to logistics and the delivery specialists. What happens then is in their hands and if they don't communicate with you or each other or the carrier, silence happens."
Is this the same situation for MS deliveries also? Or is something different about your X orders? Sure seems like a simple "Your car has shipped" would be a simple courtesy even if not possible to track and get a specific delivery date. IMO�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z It would require input from recent Model S buyers. What I didn't mention in this post is the unchanging "Confirmed" text in "My Tesla". Many Model X buyers have reported the same problem. The ability to track progress is built into the system, but only if Tesla Motors updates the screen. That would help. I agree that the simple "Your car has shipped" would be excellent. It would mean that the car is now carefully contained in a closed truck and moving towards the Service Center. IMHO, only Tesla Motors can make that happen by coordinating with the logistics team.�
Dec 29, 2015
Joel Thanks for the well thought out post, Mark.
I say this without sarcasm. The reality is Tesla's timelines are meaningless. My Signature X was promised by year end. Two weeks ago, I told my DS that this charade is unnecessary: my X will arrive in Cleveland sometime in January 2016.
It's Tesla: the actual timeline depending on product or feature is 30 to 90 days of what Tesla communicates. It's not a criticism; it is a reality. I can confidently say that all the configured Signature Model Xs will be delivered by the second week of February 2016 (Tesla Time: End of 2015 + reality (45 days) = expectations managed.
I agree that this system needs help. But there is nothing we can do other than manage our expectations with the formula provided above. Until Tesla delivers a product or feature on time or ahead of schedule, it's best to tack on 30-90 days. My Signature S was delayed, my Signature X is delayed, and I've heard nothing on my Powerwall order from back in April. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three times......
As an investor and an owner, I am committed and loyal to Tesla. For the foreseeable future, I will only purchase Tesla products (I'll order the Model 3, Powerwall, etc.), but this issue is as simple as Tesla's communication is beyond reproach.
I will reserve a Model 3 with the expectations that deliveries will start 2018 Q4 (Tesla timeline: end of 2017 + 1 year reality = expectations managed).�
Dec 29, 2015
dirkhh I wish it was that simple. I ordered my CHAdeMO adapter in October 2013 and was told I'd get it "Winter 2013". For a long trip in July of 2014 I really wanted to have the CHAdeMO so I called Tesla in March(!) 2014 and was told that I would "definitely have it by June".
I received it January 2015.
I disagree - I feel like we need to continue to speak up and make sure Tesla hears our concerns. They need to fix this. The enthusiast buyer base that they serve right now may put up with this. The broader market that they are targeting with Model 3 in all likelihood will not.
Yes, I consider it feasible (but unlikely), that Tesla will hand over six Model 3 to hand picked insiders on Dec 30 of 2018. And then delivers the first few signature reservations at the end of Q1/19�
Dec 29, 2015
Joel I was going to suggest 30 days to a year (given Auto pilot was delayed over a year). Foolish was I to think that the longest delayed feature/product was a year.
Honest question: how do we voice our concerns? I was very vocal when our families 3 Signature Model S' were delayed. And I'm vocal now that my Signature X was pushed from 2015 to 2016. I'm willing to try anything productive.
You're more reasonable than me :smile:�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z I agree, since many are shipped by train. My post is regard to truck deliveries and how they are shipped on an individual basis. With no massive hauls to central distribution points, the delivery process is totally dependent on contracted 3rd party truck companies. Only if enough trucks exist for the immediate need can the job be finished in time.
I have posted elsewhere about many other details that helped cause the slow down. Other service centers have been overloaded with Model X, while the one that delivery management requested me to use has not seen one X as of last Sunday. Trying to help Tesla did not work out so far. The light at the horizon are the facts that can be shared to help others understand the situation and hopefully Tesla Motors will create a future solution.
UPDATE: Just found out, delivery manager that made the request is no longer with Tesla. I have switched the delivery location in "My Tesla" to one that is processing a larger quantity of Model X. No status, but a separate request is being forwarded to the delivery team. Maybe that will help speed things up, since one buyer had a two week prep time at one of the Service Centers.
One thing is crystal clear. Only those willing to wait patiently should order a Tesla Motor Vehicle.�
Dec 29, 2015
Joel Well said. The wait is excruciating. But more than worth it.�
Dec 29, 2015
vangogh
Mark..There may be issues with shipping companies...but I am experiencing the same run a round with a factory delivery....In my mind there are still infancy issues that need to be resolved and they want to deliver cars that will meet expectation (albeit without meeting delivery expectations). I've already lost my California tax incentive with the delays and hope that now that I won't get a delivery till 2016, I won't lose the $7500 Fed Tax credit (if the rules change)....�
Dec 29, 2015
dirkhh They send you a survey after everything they do, including the delivery. I filled that out and voiced my displeasure. I also contacted NA sales.
Can I have this in writing? Many here would disagree
Hear. Hear. That is something that often gets lost in all the excitement and (frankly) hype about Tesla. There are still growing pains that are best handled by patient, motivated customers.�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z Wow, that is unexpected. You were on track for EOY delivery. What happened? More vehicle modifications? There are three days left, any chance it could swing back to EOY?�
Dec 29, 2015
ModelX My friends who were sig 13x and vin 17x were told yesterday that they aren't even in production yet!�
Dec 29, 2015
TSLAX Hi Mark Z, I am here in northern Orange County at my brother's for the holidays. I am not sure if this is your location, but my sister in law would live to see a model X 6 seat configuration. We all visited a local service center a few days ago and were told we could not view color or seat configurations. My brother was part of the first 2500 model S's delivered here in the US. He has been a Hugh advocate for tesla and all of their products. If you are in northern Orange County, is there a chance they could meet up with you to take a look at your seat configuration? Thanks and I appreciate the time you have taken to provide everyone access to the information you have provided here at TMC.�
Dec 29, 2015
trialcritic When I ordered the car, they had a "Delivered by beginning of 2016" sign for me. I never believed it and suspect that I might get it by the end of 2016. Any ideas on how many cars are to be made every month?�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z Did they delay their configuration? I configured on Sept 1 just after midnight. Of course there was the 6 seat switch, but the vehicle was in paint long ago. The VIN next to mine arrived at another service center over a week ago. With my Dec 15th email and the Dec 20th+ arrival schedule, it was clear the vehicle was ready to be shipped, but "My Tesla" still says "Confirmed".�
Dec 29, 2015
nienco2 boy you're patient! I remember when you posted this a week or two ago "Just as I heard from the DS that it was "in paint" about a month ago," verbal." which is worse bad communication or no communication?�
Dec 29, 2015
ModelX No, they confirmed ASAP and then did switch to the 6 seat configuration once it was offered. Their DS has said very little, but does eventually respond with' I will let you know as I know.' They have been frustrated and I mentioned that things seemed to be speeding up. So, they contacted their DS again and yesterday he responded saying they are not yet in production.�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z I saw your post at that time. I posted the VOLT photos, it wasn't a Model X. I have no idea when my delivery will take place. Since the OC Tesla group will be informed when it eventually occurs, I can send a PM at that time. In the meantime, scroll down at Max's 6 seat configuration and view the carpet where the seventh seat would have been: Vin 0062x pickup in Tampa 12/23 at 6pm - Page 6�
Dec 29, 2015
TSLAX Oh I see. And we all would appreciate your PM when you receive your model X. I saw Max's six seat photo, but my sister in law just wants to see how much space there is between the six seats (folding down) vs five seats. The cargo area is a concern for her. At any rate, they would be thrilled if you provide a chance for them to view the seats and cargo area. Thanks so much Mark Z�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z Since the five seat model will not be manufactured for some time, I don't how you can compare, unless you imagine the back two seats not existing. All of that could be checked out with a seven seat version because all three seats will exist in the 2nd row. For the six seat version, just imagine the center seat gone in the 2nd row. The two outer seats in the six are identical in the seven seat version.�
Dec 29, 2015
pvogel Yeah, that's part of the info I've been trying to get from Tesla on the 5 seat model: is the back row entirely NOT THERE (I.e no rise up from the floor) or is the rear 'hump' still there?
Peter+�
Dec 29, 2015
vangogh Not holding my breath....but who knows...�
Dec 29, 2015
aesculus Nobody has a clue. Some are even speculating that they may be different seats that fold! :smile:�
Dec 29, 2015
TSLAX Yes I understand. I have two good size dogs and so the 5 seat configuration was the only one for us. But my brother has two kids, two dogs and his family is active. So I guess some people need to see the vehicle in person to visualize how they will utilize the space how their family fits into that space. Thanks Again Mark Z�
Dec 29, 2015
stealthology It's worth noting that in February 2015, during the Q4 call, Elon said: "we don't want delays which affected the X affect the Model 3. There's many adventurous things we want to do, but it won't be in the first rendition; we want to stay on track"
Right after, he also said "we're not going to go super crazy with the design of the initial version of the Model 3".
Elon Musk thinks Tesla will be as big as Apple in 10 years - Q4 2014 Earnings Call (2015.2.11) AUDIO - YouTube�
Dec 29, 2015
petfansNetwork Mark, I read in this forum that the dash board would still show "confirmed" even after the delivery. Bonnie and Kenneth could confirm that.�
Dec 29, 2015
TSLAX Yes Mark, I guess the most important thing is seeing the six seats. She can visualize the fifth seat as I have shown her photos since being here. She really wants to see how the two back seats of the six seat configuration fold down. Then I think my sister in law will have her answer. Do you know that the third row of six seat configuration does fold down while second row is in standard sitting position? I think I read that, but double checking. She will order today if she can figure this out. Thanks so much Mark. My sister in law is appreciative of your help!�
Dec 29, 2015
omarsultan The Q3 Shareholder letter said they expect an average of 1,600 to 1,800 vehicles (S + X) produced per week for 2016--I would expect the production to be a bit below that in Q1 and a bit higher than that in Q4. I would expect Q1 to be heavy on MX production as they burn of the reservation backlog. I have not seen anything that hints at the long-term product mix between MX and MS beyond Elon's comments that they expect the MX to outsell the MS.�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z With the reported electric folding rear seats, I am not sure what happens to the 2nd row. Bonnie is the one to ask. I would imagine that the buttons on the seat would lower them individually, and perhaps a "cargo mode" button (maybe on the touchscreen?) would lower the rear and move the second row forward. Call your Configuration Specialist, they may have an answer.
Another option is to return to hang around the CM delivery center as deliveries take place. You could ask the buyers to lower the seats after they take delivery. Reports are that Costa Mesa has plenty of Model X to deliver as you saw the other day.�
Dec 29, 2015
MaxK I have a 6 seat Sig X. A couple of comments:
1. The CARGO MODE is mentioned in the manual, but it is not yet in the UI. There is a button to move the second row seats forward, but no ability to control the 3rd row from the UI.
2. I can find no indication in the current UI, or buttons in the X, that the 3rd row seats are electric folding. There may be a motor that is controlled by a UI button not yet visible, but cannot confirm.
3. The 3rd row seats have a button near the headrest that folds the headrest down and then releases the seat to be manually folded down. The 3rd row seats can be folded down with the 2nd row seats in their normal position. To raise them, there is a handle to pull them up and then you manually lock the headrests back into place.
- - - Updated - - -
Mine said 'Confirmed' right up until the moment that we accepted delivery. It then changed to our ownership of the car and the status portion disappeared.�
Dec 29, 2015
pvogel The back row folds down without moving the middle row forward, yes. The back row headrests fold forward 90 degrees, then the backs of the seats fold forward to create a flat space. If you look for the cargo dimensions thread I posted after the reveal in September you'll see that gives you about 50" of level cargo space before you get to the backs of the middle seats in their standard position. In cargo mode those middle seats slide forward 10" to give you at least 60" of space (cargo mode may do better than I was able to manually do at the reveal for getting the middle row moved forward) but then you have the 'cliff' from the backs of the rear seats to the floor. In 6 seat config you gain a gap between the middle seats that's 15" wide and gives you 80" (6' 8") of linear space to the back hatch.
Peter+�
Dec 29, 2015
dirkhh MaxK, can you post a picture from the back into the car with the 3rd row folded down?�
Dec 29, 2015
gfb107 I'm quite sure the 3rd row seats are identical for the 6- and 7-seat configurations. This video from Mark Templeton shows how the 3rd row seats work. There' a bunch of other videos and photos on Mark's iCloud Share�
Dec 29, 2015
pvogel 
From Mark's iCloud photo share�
Dec 29, 2015
dirkhh Perfect, thank you�
Dec 29, 2015
TSLAX Wow thanks Mark Z, Max, pvogel, dirkhh and gfb107. You all rock! My sister in law is all set to finish her configuration.�
Dec 29, 2015
Vitold Bump has to be there because of the drive unit unless Tesla rises floor behind 2nd row to the height of the DU at cost of some storage space.
�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z In regard to the above lengthy post (title only showing), I have switched the delivery location to a service center that has more experience handling Model X. Getting a bit nervous with reports of 2 week prep time at one location. The switch may or may not happen, but at least I tried.
The delivery manager who originally requested that I use a new location is no longer with the company.�
Dec 29, 2015
Vger There is a big difference between make and deliver. Remember last December?�
Dec 29, 2015
Pheadrus Yikes. This worries me. My New England DS has been less than responsive and I am concerned he isn't long for this world at Tesla. I am lucky to beg for an update of any kind every 30 days since October....�
Dec 29, 2015
dirkhh Interesting. This does sound a lot like the early P85D deliveries last year. Tons of confusion. Tons of misleading and conflicting "information" given to the owners. And a lot fewer deliveries than everyone expects. :-(�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z I wouldn't worry. The person who left wasn't my DS. At least you got an upgrade. I didn't even get new windshield wipers during the last checkup! The door handle now sticks out too far as well. I figure that I can get them fixed when Model X Signature needs to be picked up for a test drive.
The silence is deafening. "Car 15, Where Are You?"�
Dec 29, 2015
AlMc Agreed. On the ST investors thread there was hope after the Fortune article that deliveries in 2015 would be in the several hunderds and that 'Ed' would be wrong. He still may be wrong and hundreds will be delivered but the clock is ticking.
- - - Updated - - -
Mark...I don't know what to say......but I will remain hopeful that you get the call in the next 24 hours (paging Jerome.....)�
Dec 29, 2015
nienco2 Question for anyone re cargo area
So I'm having trouble viaualizing what the space between the top of the third row when folded down and the back of second looks like when the second row is tilted and slid all the way forward. how much flat area for dogs? TIA
�
Dec 29, 2015
Mark Z Don't forget the folding headrest. That will cut off some of the space.
Would a net across the entire vehicle be good, about where the tie down is showing. That might keep the dogs from scratching the artistic seats.
UPDATE: DS will call with an update on 12/30.�
Dec 29, 2015
dirkhh We never have our dogs in a car without crating them. So for me I need to fit the crates in there - and the fact that it looks like there's about a 1-2 in level difference is not making me happy. I guess I can address this with a folded towel under the other end of the two crates, but still, my 9 y/o $34k Sienna manages to create a completely flat surface there. A little disappointing.�
Dec 29, 2015
AlMc I will try to find/remember the dimensions. I was at the reveal and helped another TMCer that was smarter than I (he brought a tape measure, I did not) measure with seats up and seats down. It was much shorter than the S length wise and similar width rise.�
Dec 29, 2015
pvogel The rear shelf over the 'trunk' is moveable, in its standard position it's 100% flat with the back of the folded rear seats.
Peter+�
Dec 29, 2015
dirkhh DUH! I actually knew that from Bonnie's pictures. Clearly not my brightest moment here... but I looked at the picture a little further up and thought "umm, just like in the Model S, this isn't flat".
Thanks for reminding me of the correct answer!�
Dec 29, 2015
FarmerDave My X won't arrive in 2015. Received this email from my DS today:
"Thank you again for your continues patience as we work to deliver the very first Model X. At this stage, we can expect your Model X to be ready for delivery in the second or third week of January.
I will be able to confirm a more precise date in early January."�
Dec 30, 2015
nienco2 flat area
My question really isn't about that "trunk" shelf, but rather the space created between back of the second row when pushed forward and the flat third row. My assumption is that the picture above doesn't show the second row pushed forward. Or is that really all the flat cargo area we can expect? TIA�
Dec 30, 2015
mikevbf My recollection is that the cargo area goes from 50 inches long to 60 inches long when the second row seats are slid all the way forward and tilted. You should ask this question in the FAQ wiki so all others have the answer who follow you.�
Dec 30, 2015
pvogel Yep. With the seats forward there's a 10" gap between the seat backs and the end of the rear cargo 'shelf' and there is a drop from that shelf to the floor level. More than 10" of space on the floor because the middle seats are tilted forward and the monopoles the sit on are fully forward. But I didn't get detailed measurements there at the reveal. Also don't know the height of that cargo shelf from the seating floor to the shelf.�
Dec 30, 2015
ronmerkord FarmerDave, we know how you feel. This is what we are hearing from our DS.
"I imagine your delivery might linger into the new year and be delivered 1/6 or later (we are closed from 1/1-1/5). I will be sure to update you as soon as I see your Model X land in Santa Barbara!"
I guess neither one of us made the A list for deliveries.
Ron
SigX VIN #484�
Dec 30, 2015
nienco2 Thanks, went back and saw some of your measurements from 9/30. Seems like you were doing some basic work that TESLA should have done and provided�
Dec 30, 2015
Vitold X has more cargo room with 5,6 and 7 passengers and less than S with 1 or 2.�
Dec 30, 2015
nienco2 Just seems weird to not have more cargo room in all configurations of a bigger class of vehicle. I definitely need to wait to see one before committing. I originally thought those nice big FWDoors would be great for loading stuff in from the side, now not so sure.�
Dec 30, 2015
dirkhh This has been a hotly debated topic right around the launch. I thought the conclusion had been that while there is less "surface area" in a Model X with the second row all the way forward and third row folded compared with a Model S with back seats folded, but that the overall storage capacity was still quite a bit bigger because of the additional height (not to mention the bigger frunk). So for those transporting sheets of plywood (or scuba equipment for two with a desire to have the gear in cement mixing tubs so the car stays dry), the Model X may in fact be a step back. But for practical purposes it should be fine.
Oh, and I can't wait to take pictures of a Model S and Model X side by side, all doors open, all seats out of the way, to make a more visual comparison happening...�
Dec 30, 2015
nienco2 side by side pictures doors open
Oh, and I can't wait to take pictures of a Model S and Model X side by side, all doors open, all seats out of the way, to make a more visual comparison happening...[/QUOTE]
+++++ this�
Dec 30, 2015
MorrisonHiker Someone should do the ping-pong ball test and count how many they can fit in each car. I'm sure the volume of the X will be a lot larger...but I believe the S will still win when it comes to length of cargo area.�
Dec 30, 2015
aesculus For those that are in the ping-pong ball business or enthusiast it should be the greatest car. :smile:
I agree that the S seats are much more versatile. X is a better people mover. This includes ingress/egress too.
Oh if we could just have it both ways.:love:�
Dec 30, 2015
MaxK I will add that the X is a better pet mover as well. We have a loaner S at the moment and had to put half the back seat down to accommodate our two dogs (GoldenDoodle & Labradoodle), which limited the back seat to one passenger so we had to leave our daughter at home (with grandma). With the X, we could have both 2nd row seats occupied (we have a six seater) and the dogs can be in the back or can come forward between the 2nd row seats.�
Dec 30, 2015
AlMc When you get around to that: second row seats occupied and two large dogs inside could you take a picture and share it? Thanks�
Dec 30, 2015
MorrisonHiker Maybe also a picture with the two dogs in the second row and two passengers in the third row! :wink:�
Dec 30, 2015
Vitold Lower maximum cargo space is due to 2nd row seats not folding. If you are willing to overlook that, they are reportedly more comfortable than most 2nd row seats plus, through their monopole design, they offer more leg room for 3rd row occupants.�
Dec 30, 2015
shive Just thought I would get this thread back on track and update it...
Taking delivery tomorrow in Costa Mesa SC at 3pm!
(Silver P90D) From the sound of it, there will be multiple deliveries happening tomorrow.�
Dec 30, 2015
Lyon Congratulations! Post pictures!�
Dec 30, 2015
hill Would you terribly mind a few looky-loos lurking about?
[emoji16]
.�
Dec 30, 2015
FarmerDave
I believe the correct test method is accomplished using cases of beer...�
Dec 30, 2015
vangogh 135 hours till my delivery at the factory Res 700 VIN S0027X : )�
Dec 30, 2015
omarsultan +1 This your scenario too - 6-seat config and 2 GSDs�
Dec 30, 2015
AlMc If you are asking me: 6-7 seats: 6 if we never get gold option and 7 if we do: instead of GSDs: Bernese Mt. Dogs�
Dec 30, 2015
rdalcanto More than pictures, I want more detailed reviews and comparisons to the S....�
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