Chủ Nhật, 25 tháng 12, 2016

Model S Specifications, Teases and Leaks part 4

  • Mar 26, 2009
    TEG
    Let me try to extrapolate:

    160 mile range = ~40kWh
    230 mile range = ~60kWh
    300 mile range = ~80kWh

    Saw this elsewhere:

    • 160 mile range Base pack (42kWh, 5500 cells)
    • 230 mile range upgrade (~60kWh 7800 cells)
    Something in that ballpark. I doubt it is 15000 batteries.

    Note, these batteries store more wh/cell than the ones in the Roadster.

    The 300 mile range pack is expected to use some different technology.
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  • Mar 26, 2009
    stopcrazypp
    Here's what the green car reports has to say on the battery pack
    Tesla Model S: Technical Specs - Green Car Reports

    Don't know which one will have 8000 cells.

    Just to throw it in there, gizmodo has good pictures on the touchscreen:
    http://i.gizmodo.com/5185966/first-look-at-tesla-model-s-fantastically-giant-touch-lcd-console
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  • Mar 26, 2009
    Palpatine
    With the weight of the 300 mile range battery, I am sure that will start affecting performance of the vehicle. So it makes sense that would only be for a rental and not your regular daily battery.

    The truth is, I think it would be a waste to drag around that heavy battery every day. Why have the weight in your Model S if you only drive about 100 miles per day or less?

    So I will likely get the 160 mile version of the battery so that the car is not so heavy and will handle better. If I need the long 300 mile range, I can go to the Tesla store in Seattle and rent that battery for the trip.

    The more I think about it, the more sense that makes.

    My one key demand of Tesla Motors is that my HPC work with both the Roadster and the Sedan. If I am forced to buy another HPC for $3,000 then I am going to be ticked off. My 240 volt 30 amp mobile charger better work on both of them also.
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  • Mar 26, 2009
    TEG
    Possibly a mis-quote...
    I heard this: "replacement cost would be under $500 kWh"...

    So for a 42kWh pack that works out to ~<$21K
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    TEG

    You wrote:
    (That had been a rumor for a long time)

    'Rampage' replied:
    So much for Rampage's credibility. He claimed to be 'in the know' somehow.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    Rheazombi
    I was actually talking to the guy online who gave the pics to Kevin Rose. So I actually saw them even before he did! :biggrin:
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    dpeilow
    Thread on Pistonheads: Tesla Model S

    I had to laugh at this comment about the 7 seats...

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  • Mar 27, 2009
    SteveF

    I guess we'll learn more about this in the coming weeks. It DID sound like a "too good to be true" kind of quote.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    vfx
    Me too. JB said that batteries have dropped 20 percent since the start of the Roadster project.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    Brent
  • Mar 27, 2009
    Tdave
    That makes sense.

    I'm more interested in longer range. I'd happily pay $15k-$20k for a 350+ mile Roadster battery in 5-7 years.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    vfx
    Another thing that was said (JB?) is that they have figured out how to drop the size of the battery pack by some amount (20%?) packing more power in a given volume -or was it mass?

    I know this post is nearly useless but may someone can find a video or audio of the speeches...
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    TEG
    2011 Tesla Model S Concept Tech Deep Dive—300-Mile Range, Seven-Seat EV for Mass Market? - Popular Mechanics
    Is "efficiency" the right word?
    I think they meant "20% more energy storage in the same volume"...
    Packaging efficiency I guess.

    Tesla Model S: $50,000 EV sedan seats seven, 300-mile range, 0-60 in 5.5s
    My guess would be they are switching from 2200mAh 18650s to 2600mAh 18650s. Same size batteries that store more energy. They are probably about the same weight as the old batteries so the weight per kWh also improves.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    TEG
    Also, again, we have to be careful about the different pack variations.

    Is the 20% improvement only for the 300mile range pack?
    They talk of different cells for the 300mile pack.
    Perhaps 160 & 230 mile packs will use 2200mah, and only 300 mile pack with 2600mah?
    They talk a lot about various features that will only be available if you order the 300 mile pack.


    By the way, 5500/6831*53=~42... Which means to me that the base S (160 mile range) pack uses the same type of cells as the Roadster...
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    stopcrazypp
    From what I can work out the 160 & 230 mile packs will use the same cells as the Roadster. That means as they have said, the 160 pack is smaller than the 230 pack. The 300 mile pack will use the cells with better volumetric energy density so it will stay the same size as the 230 pack except it has more range.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    SteveF
    So I'm no engineer, but can we assume that if these batteries were put into a battery pack for the Roadster, the range could go from 244 miles to nearly 300 miles just like that? (244*1.2 = 292.8 miles)
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    flabby


    I don't know. After using the iphone for a while I went and tried the new blackberry touch screen, which has to be pressed to activate any function, and it seemed annoyingly archaic and inefficient, a step back from the iphone. But at the same time, it is nice not having to look away from the road to find a knob to twist or slide. I usually just feel for the knobs.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    stopcrazypp
    Yes, provided the electronics can handle the extra current and the battery enclosure/mounts can handle whatever extra weight of the battery cells (though it shouldn't weigh much more, if at all) you can basically do that since the cells are all the same standard 18650 size.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    SteveF

    I LIKE IT! :smile:
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    WarpedOne
    First Look at Tesla's Stunning Model S:
    Amazing what some additional cooling brings. 300kW is a lot, even by today's sport luxury sedan's standards. Feeding it from 42kWh pack could mean some very short meals, like 8 minutes. Of course, you cannot constantly draw peak power under realistic driving conditions, even by constantly flooring it up the hill.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    vfx
    This is key here. Muscle memory with get you close but without look at the screen you will surely slide across the glass triggering all sorts of wacky results.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    WarpedOne
    I'm sure tactile response can be supplemented with sound and clever touch algorithms.
    Like if you are on the border of the knob or between the two of them, the sound effect is quiet or in different tune.

    It is different but surely doable.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    stopcrazypp
    I think 402hp (300kW) is overkill for an entry model, they should save the extra performance for the sport model. Especially at a $57k base price, since the 550i is 360hp for $60k, A6 4.2 is 350hp for $61k, E550 is 382hp for $62k. It depends on how much extra it costs for that kind of performance; if it doesn't cost much more then I suppose it's something else that puts it above a gasoline car.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    WarpedOne
    The main difference to ICE cars is that production ready 300 kW PEM is almost same price as say 200 kW PEM. There are same components in both of them, the stronger version only has a few more IGBTs and maybe stronger cooling. Much much less difference than between a V6 and V8 ICE engine.

    Performance will come from reduced weight and stiffer suspension. But at the end of the day, they can easily program it to only offer 250 kW if that would sell more Sport versions.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    Cobos
    I beleive it was mentioned here somewhere earlier that for electric motors it is a trivial increase in price to increase power in contrast with ICE cars. The problem though is that more horsepower usually means you will drive more agressive also when just cruising and hence the delta between EPA range and actual range increases (because you are draining the battery too fast). Too much delta and it starts to look bad.

    Cobos
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    TEG
    I would assume that is true, but it probably isn't just as simple as plopping in the newer cells. The charge and discharge characteristics are probably different enough that they have to come up with new control software to take advantage of and treat the new batteries appropriately. I imagine they may have a prototype Roadster with these cells, but would need to test it for a long time to know if the new batteries can work well with revised software.

    My guess would be they offer them as an option on the Roadster someday.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    Joseph
    "I think 402hp (300kW) is overkill for an entry model"

    To me it sounds like overkill also, but remember that electric motors are acutally slightly more efficient as they get larger. This coupled with the relatively minor difference in cost, justifies the giant motor.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    WarpedOne
    Nine inch electric motor is not what I'd call a giant. Nine inch, 22 centimeters.
    More dwarflike, but with giant capabilities, yes.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    Palpatine
    From my discussing this with Tesla employees, the Roadster battery pack could be completely different when it is replaced. I have heard that the replacement in 5 to 7 years will likely have a range of 300 to 400 miles and may even be lighter than the current battery pack. There may even be different options based on a Roadster owner wanting more range or more performance.

    But the current Roadster will never have a fast swap battery. It would take a complete redesign.
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  • Mar 27, 2009
    SteveF
    I don't anticipate needing or wanting a fast swap option for my Roadster, personally. I intend to use it as a daily commuter, and would use a roomier, more comfortable second car for those few long excursions I take.

    I have always assumed that when the Roadster battery is ready to be replaced that lighter and/or longer range options should be available - but it's nice to hear that the Tesla folks are thinking along those lines too.
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  • Apr 3, 2011
    TEG
    Here is an old picture that someone seems to have put on Tesla's Facebook page:
    [?IMG]

    Is that box in front a PEM or battery pack? In any case it seems to have been some sort of prototype just for the Model S Concept car.
    We now know the Alpha solution is much more elegant and space efficient.
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  • Apr 3, 2011
    ljbad4life
    I think that was just for the prototype. if you look at the alpha shots, the radiators have been relocated to the front behind the bumper and grill. I also specifically remember Tesla stating that the Model S would have a trunk in the front...
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  • Apr 3, 2011
    NEWDL
    Answers

    That was the first drivable prototype Model S. My guess is that it was not built by Tesla from the ground up. Please look at the front clip in the photo to see it's odd size and shape. It does not match up with the front fenders in length or height.

    If I am correct, and it was built off of a prevously ICE car then it would not be capable of holding the full battery pack under the floor as the final Model S will. I am sure they had to break up the pack into various locations inside of the car.

    So to answer your question... Yes. It is PEM, it is batteries.... It is all of it.... Put anywhere they could.

    I can't wait for the Model S builds to begin...

    This is a car that will change the automotive industry all over again...:biggrin:
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  • Apr 3, 2011
    TEG
    The "alphas" are still prototypes. I know that picture was from the original "concept car" which is the one they had been showing for quite some time until the alphas were made ready.
    I think it started out silver-gray then was later repainted red.

    Yes, I think it was established some time ago that it was based off of a Daimler chassis, like maybe an E-class.
    Thankfully the Alpha prototypes answered the question decisively to show that Tesla will be building their own chassis, and not build it like they did that first prototype.
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  • Apr 4, 2011
    ljbad4life
    Excuse me, I meant concept. yes the alphas are still "prototypes " :tongue:.
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