Apr 15, 2015
sriramd10 Thanx @pmoa
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Apr 16, 2015
DJ Frustration Or to China where 8 is a lucky number.�
Apr 16, 2015
msteinbeck It's been a week and still no vin for me.
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Apr 16, 2015
nanimac Call your DS? I confirmed the same day as you.�
Apr 16, 2015
pmoa The new plug has been installed in the garage!
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Apr 16, 2015
CHGolferJim Can you possibly tell us about distance from box, etc., and cost?�
Apr 16, 2015
lg_golfs I had to come from the other side of the house to the garage (2200SFT house). I will provide the measurements once its installed, but, all 3 electricians gave me a price of 2K.�
Apr 16, 2015
pmoa I bought 38 ft of 6/3 with ground for 100 bucks. I had 6 feet extra just in case. The breaker box was in the basement. Bought a 50 amp breaker, various connectors and staples. With labor it cost $290�
Apr 17, 2015
Thud A 240V outlet that's used continuously for a few hours at a time usually requires a permit which can add a few hundred bucks. My permit fee was $399 I think. All told I paid around $1400 for my install, which included the permit fee and all parts-- with a 30-foot run of cable from the breaker box to the wall on the opposite side of the garage. My cable is not behind the drywall either.�
Apr 18, 2015
mgoble I just got my VIN today for my new 70D. Very excited. VIN #085146�
Apr 18, 2015
wk057 As I've been told I'm one of the forum's handful of self-appointed NEC police, I'll point out that if you're using 6/3 NM (Romex) cable and it is not protected from physical damage (as in, surface mounted on the wall in a garage or an unfinished basement) then this could be an NEC violation. I've not yet encountered an inspector who would consider NM cable on a garage wall protected from physical damage.
NEC 334.15 Exposed Work. In exposed work, except as provided in 300.11(A), cable shall be installed as specified in 334.15(A) through (C).
(A) To Follow Surface. Cable shall closely follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
(B) Protection from Physical Damage. Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC markedwith the suffix -XW, or other approved means. *snip*
(C) In Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces. Where cable is run at angles with joists in unfinished basements and crawl spaces, it shall be permissible to secure cables not smaller than two 6 AWG or three 8 AWG conductors directly to the lower edges of the joists. Smaller cables shall be run either through bored holes in joists or on running boards. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable installed on the wall of an unfinished basement shall be permitted to be installed in a listed conduit or tubing or shall be protected in accordance with 300.4. Conduit or tubing shall be provided with a suitable insulating bushing or adapter at the point the cable enters the raceway. The sheath of the nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall extend through the conduit or tubing and into the outlet or device box not less than 6 mm (1?4 in.). The cable shall be secured within 300 mm (12 in.) of the point where the cable enters the conduit or tubing.�
Apr 18, 2015
breser My inspector didn't blink at this installation.
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Apr 23, 2015
lg_golfs I am kinda using this thread as a 70D owners thread. :smile:
Ordered mine with a June delivery. It is now listed as Late May on my Tesla page. As it says that date can slip, but, it was nice to see that vs Early June, Mid June, etc.�
Apr 23, 2015
phlex ..82216
switched from 60 day 70D was announced�
Apr 23, 2015
Bonlaw I did too - changed my 60 to 70D and finalized on April 8, but my vin is 84324. What's up with that? I have a May delivery posted, but I am still in the "entering production queue."�
Apr 23, 2015
pmoa Can the mods change this thread title to new tesla 70D owners?�
Apr 23, 2015
DrumCoder I'm such a noob and and posted in a different thread about my 70D reservation. I'll repost it here since this seems to be a better thread to collect this stuff.
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Apr 28, 2015
Bonlaw 70D changed from a 60 on 4/8 and confirmed that day. Vin # on 4/9. In production queue within a day or two. Being built as of 4/28. WOO HOO!!
Does anyone know how long it is taking from being built to final? I am in So Cal so delivery is probably not more than a couple of days if that.�
Apr 28, 2015
pmoa Wow I confirmed three days after you. I hope mine goes into production that quickly�
Apr 28, 2015
0Q991 Wow! I have a 70D on order. Still in queue. Delivery "May."
Did your DS tell you you would be in production already? Or is this ahead of schedule?�
May 12, 2015
0Q991 In the end, it's all about what we are individually looking for from the car.
I'm coming from a Volt as my daily driver, so the 70D will be great. I'd love to have the acceleration and added range of the 85D, but it would be a splurge for me for my commute--which is through heinous traffic anyway.�
May 12, 2015
ahurst Best analogy I've seen thus far.�
May 12, 2015
chriSharek MsElectric, if you keep that up, I'm getting an 85D with less options!
Damn, this is a hard decision. I've got to give up the air suspension for the 85D. I've read all the posts about coils vs. air. Bottom line is that I've got to drive them. I've scheduled a test drive in a 70D with coils and a P85D with Air. I wish they had an 85D with air though . . .�
May 12, 2015
Cyclone Chris, make sure both cars have the same tires otherwise the feel would be very different even if both had coils or both had air.�
May 12, 2015
alin3 Not just tire manufacturer and model, but wheel size plays a huge role in driving dynamics. Make sure they have either both 19" or both 21".�
May 12, 2015
kaiserpathos I am in the same boat, coming from a Volt as my daily driver and mainly wanting my commute improved. I'm pretty sure the 70D is just the medicine I am needing for Dallas' annoying Central Expressway. In addition to being nearly a different universe from my Volt, the 70D is a very respectable replacement for a lot of upper Bimmer models that are just south of M. Prior to my Volt I drove a 540i and this car has the same acceleration and sporty ride that car had.�
May 12, 2015
Cyclone To further clarify, I meant the exact same tire, including size. But good to point that out explicitly!�
May 12, 2015
ahurst Let us know your thoughts afterwards.�
May 12, 2015
Cyclone Absent Chris coming back after the test drive and definitively saying he is getting a 70D, I think he will end up with a 85 or 85D. For me, the 70D would have been fine, but I wouldn't want to hear myself nagging over the next decade why I didn't splurge and get the options I really wanted and second guess my decision all this time. But alas, I'm also the person who considered a M37, 5 series (non-M), GS (non-F sport), and E class to be worlds ahead and unbelievable performing over my 4L V6 4WD Toyota 4Runner.�
May 12, 2015
alin3 This is EXACTLY my situation. I really like my Volt as a daily driver and was waiting on Tesla to add AWD before switching to Tesla. And, lo and behold, the battery pack get increased AND they add AWD and Autopilot!
The 70D is perfect for my daily grind of a commute on the Eisenhower "express"way especially with Autopilot enabled (if it works in stop and go traffic).
I'll still have my fun ICE car for the weekends. :wink:�
May 12, 2015
kaiserpathos One thing I like about 70D, and any other Model S build in production right now, is the company behind it is building a factory that will enable me to put a huge battery in it within a decade. Think of it, taking an 85D or 70D and upping them to "105D" batteries in the future. That's the promise of owning even an S60, and a smart revenue stream for Tesla, in the future.�
May 12, 2015
jbcarioca that is crisp, succinct and precisely why I ended out buying a P85D. I used insane mode a handful of times but otherwise drive it quite conservatively. Were I rational I'd not have bought a Tesla in the first place. However a 70D would have been perfectly fine and I know it. Either way I think it is hard not to love these cars.�
May 12, 2015
kuttakamina 1. Structurally the battery arrangement is the same. 70d just has duds instead of real cells - so if ever there is a battery swap possibility, the 70d has equal probability of receiving an upgrade as an 85d, as long as you are willing to pay.
2. The S60 owners have asked if batteries are upgradeable to 85 and Tesla has told them nope! On the other hand, S40's are upgradable to S60.
3. A decade, who the hell knows what the world will be like then, but two things are for sure
i) The computers and sensors in today's Model S will pretty much be so outdated, you'll probably not worry about battery.
ii) I'll still be sexy�
May 12, 2015
No2DinosaurFuel There was a case i know of for sure where tesla swapped the 60kwh battery for an 85kwh. It can be done and is being done. However i think it was because the owner had a defective 60kwh battery and said he would pay the difference for the 85kwh battery.
Also going on pass history where the roadster will be able to upgrade to new batteries, i would suspect the 70D be easily upgradeable.
Upgradable battery is the main reason why i will get the 70D now and upgrade later. My take on it is tesla will very soon announce a new higher capacity version of the model s when the model x comes out. This is the only way tesla can keep sucking money out of its current customer. Then it will sell the used 85D as cpo for high margins.�
May 12, 2015
lg_golfs Ok. Sorry to sidetrack the conversation, but, my 70D went into production today! WOOT! 5/14 order 5/21 confirm�
May 12, 2015
kushari Sorry No hands down here. I think the Model S is the Hands down best looking. It's all a matter of opinion.�
May 12, 2015
kaiserpathos I definitely believe Autopilot sensors & on-board computers will be outdated relatively quickly (automation is fast-moving), but batteries could be a real profit-stream for Tesla to keep compatibility of the "Gen 1 Model S body style" battery packs compatible for at least one upgrade-cycle. Such a move requires Tesla to keep modern battery packs swap/backwards-compatible with older Model S on-board battery mgmt systems, as battery chemistry changes. At least for a few years -- if so, they all but guarantee each Model S vehicle can be a "two decade car" passing through a few owners. Car-lifespan gives Tesla some decent bragging rights over other manufacturers, but it's really up to Tesla and if it's worth the cost to keep compatibility. By the time two decades pass Model S iterations will be well on to new frame/body style and be far cheaper (and may even go by a new name), so it won't be feasible to keep future packs backward-compatible. So they only need to maintain the backwards swap compatibility for a few years.
Still, they guarantee a lot of brand-loyalty if offering this to some Model S owners who experience the typical battery pack degradation a decade later. But it's still early days. I'm just excited to have a 70D, I don't care if can't get 270 miles after a single charge - it just seems perfect for my needs. lol�
May 12, 2015
Lex Wow the first signs of ANY negative commentary on the 70D have emerged... in of all places the "we're waiting for our new rides" thread lol
I am certainly preparing to tell people it's NOT the P85D model... and expecting to hear "where's the INSANE mode button" over and over.
For me, the 70D is all I need and it helps make this the most shockingly frugal choice I've ever made :scared:�
May 12, 2015
travwill 70D is getting great reviews it seems, the AWD and performance are well regarded, and I also think the rest of the positives we are hearing because at this point the build quality of exterior and interior has greatly improved since the first 2012/2013 reviews that were out.
I ordered a 70D also, can't wait for it to finally build! I wouldn't consider a 90K+ car though "frugal" still these days for 95%+ of the population ;-) Enjoy!�
May 13, 2015
S4WRXTTCS It is interesting to see the justifications that people use for deciding on one variant or the other.
In a lot of ways you can see the psychology of marketing of various levels working it's magic. Where people find all sorts of ways of convincing themselves of whatever the right choice is. When the reality is 90% of the time you're not even in the car, and when you are you're probably stuck behind a Prius.
I can't tell someone which model is right for them. Chances are their subconscious has already made the decision, and they're just looking for ways to justify it to their conscious selves.
I argued with myself constantly between the 60, 85, and P85 then it became an argument between the 60, 85D, and P85D. I eventually went with the 60 because I felt like Tesla was moving so crazy fast that anything I got would be obsolete before it even arrived. Ironically (or maybe not so ironic) a couple weeks after I ordered Tesla came out with the 70D so I switched over to that. It solved most of my reservations about the 60. I get to have the all-wheel drive which is important in the rainy pacific northwest, and it gives me a bit more range. Most importantly it didn't really cost anymore (base was more expensive, but the options I got were cheaper). About the only thing I lost out on was the rear next-gen seats. The 60 I ordered had them, but the 70D only had the front ones. Oh, well. it saved me $1000, and they still don't allow driving from the back seat so I see no problems with it.
For myself I've always known the Tesla MS wasn't the exact car I wanted. Simply put its way too big for me so it's mostly a 3-4 year thing so I can get my Tesla fix. There are a lot of intangibles about the Tesla that's hard to put down. It's not just a car company, or a car. It's the whole car then solar panels, and then a ticket to space? Or something like that. Maybe my subconscious just loved the idea of contributing to a vision for the future. Or maybe I just wanted to roam without feeling guilt.
Whatever the case might be Tesla changed the entire game without really even having that reliable of a car. Absolutely not a single issue I've been concerned about for the last 2 years has been solved by Tesla. They still have 12V battery issues, and they still have inverter whines/failures. It's impossible to gauge percentages, but we still have cases of people stuck without a working car. Something that hasn't happened to me EVER. Sure I've had hoses break, and O2 Sensors fail. You just duck tape the hose, and you can limp along with the bad sensor till you replace it.
I ordered the Tesla despite all the threads on here about reliability issues, and I'm absolutely not someone that falls in love with a manufacture. I strongly believe in pushing a manufacture to build the best widget it can, and imposing as much pressure as I singlehandly can on them. In fact they should have gone Soap Nazi on me, and not allowed me to order it. Of course I don't believe in lawsuits, the media, or any of that. I simply believe in pushing engineers to do what they get paid to do.
Maybe I got it because cars these days are kinda boring they're so good. If you really think about it, it's amazing how well cars are these days. Most of the complaints you see on Consumer reports are really about the Media electronics and interfaces than the car itself. Even Jaguar manages to produce a reasonably reliable car. I almost got it (the Jaguar F-Type), but the Tesla messed up that idea.
That's what it really comes down to.
There were a lot of great cars I looked at, but everything felt like it was the old world. I also ended up ordering just before the really awesome hybrids came on board. The Volt is a cool hybrid, but it's not awesome in the sense a BMW I8 is or an Acura NSX.
I absolutely fell in love with the 2015 Ferrari California T, but it would have required pulling way too much money from investments. I just couldn't pull the trigger.
In a lot of ways I was divided between the best of the old world, and the best of the new world.
I was forced to make a decision because of the pending sales tax exception ending that's really what pushed me to order a couple months ago.
So now I'm one week away from the delivery of a 70D which is a pretty amazing feat because I've never in my life managed to wait for a car, and I've been anxiously checking this thread for those of you getting yours before I get mine.�
May 13, 2015
kuttakamina S4WRXTTCS, finally a voice of reason. I can't for the life of me figure out, why this technical marvel cannot work around the requirement of a 12v battery.
And the other reliability issues make it sound worse than a ford.
Few things I'd like to add,
- The nagging reliability issues (yes there are many!), are largely compensated by Tesla's excellent customer service SO FAR!
- The customer service requires them to spend money like a drunk sailor. Money that they have right now, stock market is up, Tesla stock is up.
- Money they have mostly because of tax laws - cars are artificially 7-10% cheaper, more in other countries, and the carbon credit thing they do.
- Ownership of a Model S or X is going to get more expensive as more and more insurance companies are realizing how absurdly expensive these cars are to fix.
- Tax breaks are ending - Norway their second largest market after USA, is ending them (I said this 2 years ago, predicting 2015 will be the end of it, and the Tesla fanboys said I was an idiot). Most states are ending them, and Federal tax credits will end by end of 2016.
- Not much traction in China. And only so many 100K cars USA can absorb. Model 3 is still 5 years away if you consider ModelX had a planned release date of late 2013
- The next government may not be as favorable to Tesla.
- Market is guaranteed to tank over the next 2-3 years. 20-40% correction is a given.
- Other manufacturers with a better sales and service network will introduce compelling EVs, they already have. Acura NSX, BMW i8 etc. Its only going to get more competitive. Even the 2016 Volt albeit not in the same ballgame as Tesla is a compelling car.
- The gigafactory will need a 10-14bn $ investment. The DOE loan - which was the key reason why Tesla survived and Fisker didn't, was 1/2bn in perspective.
Long story short, fast forward a few years,
- Tesla's customer service is bound to get worse as more cars are added, less money to spend, and well it is already apparent in their sales.
- The car albeit a technical miracle, drives like a dream, is far from perfect.
- And the resale value of these cars has held up so far, but I am fairly certain it will change for the worse.
I'm not spending on anything more than a 70d inventory�
May 13, 2015
techmaven I'm really not sure where you get some of what you write:
Ah, no. The warranty holdback is not all that high. Tesla reserves $2,715 per vehicle for expected warranty work, which includes all of the 4 year standard warranty and the 8 year powertrain/battery warranty.
I have a problem with your characterization of "mostly" since you contradict yourself... the amount is small, so it can't be "mostly." ZEV credits are not the same thing as carbon credits. Nissan Leafs are 25 to 30% cheaper, as you say artificially. However, this barely compensates for the externalities of the gas guzzlers that emit high amounts of both fine particulate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. Also, the rules of the market were largely established well before Tesla entered the market. Should Tesla be penalized for taking any Schedule 129 deductions? Or any tax deductions at all?
Sources? I think you are flat out wrong.
China is Tesla's 2rd largest market, selling between 4,000 and 4,500 vehicles last year. There were more cars sold there than Norway last year, although it is very close and they trade places at #2 and #3. Therefore, "not much traction" is only relative to the initial expectations of 10k or so. But at least 1 in 8 Teslas sold last year was in China. Further, have you done *any* market research? The $75k+ SUV market in the U.S. is huge and Tesla is also able to expand the traditional $75k+ market. A lot of ex-Prius owners are among the current Tesla owners.
Maybe, maybe not.
Ah, no.
What?? Maybe a total of Gigafactories #1 through 3. DoE ATVM loan was paid off. Your knowledge of this history is tenuous at best. Fisker ran into problems and couldn't fully drawn down their ATVM loan. Did you happen to forget Nissan's $1.4 billion ATVM loan, or Ford's $5.9 billion dollar ATVM loan? Or how about the roughly $11.2 billion dollar GM bailout end cost? How about Chrysler's $1.3 billion dollar bailout cost? It would have been better for all of us to have given Tesla at least Chrysler's portion.
Really not sure where you are getting your "facts" ... you seem to spend too much time reading dubious financial articles written by Tesla short sellers.�
May 13, 2015
vdiv Speaking of insurance rates what do they look like for the 70D in the US? Do insurance companies make much of a distinction between the P85D and the 70D or are they all "insane"? I'm too scared to ask for a quote.�
May 13, 2015
kuttakamina Can't argue with fanboys
Still a sweet car though, minus the reliability problems, agree to agree on that.�
May 13, 2015
WarpedOne What is there left to argue when one calls i8 an EV?�
May 13, 2015
Cyclone Travelers in NC only has Model S and Model S Performance in their system. So 40 / 60 / 70D / 85 / 85D should all rate the same.�
May 13, 2015
kushari I usually like to get technical. But not this time. I'm just going to enjoy my 70d when it arrives. All the technical I can learn step by step when using the car on a daily basis.�
May 13, 2015
techmaven Ah, you have many facts plainly wrong. It's not a matter of projections or things that you can have an opinion, like whether you think the multi-coat red is too ostentatious. No, you are plainly wrong on a number of counts where there is objective truth.�
May 13, 2015
kuttakamina Still not arguing�
May 13, 2015
travwill Insurance in the USA seems reasonable. I quoted adding my 70D to my policy with large carrier, Progressive, and it was minimal increase. I quoted replacing a VW Touareg Hybrid with Model S D70 and it went up like $100 for 6 months total. We pay $116 a month it seems for a policy with a newer BMW X5 and 2015 Model S D70 on it, with high coverage amounts 100/300k, etc. That is also in pretty pricy Chicago.
I did noticed that many insurance companies can't recognize the VINs fully yet, specially D70 VIN, so you have to make certain you are getting quoted for a more comparable Model S versus Model S Performance (that is what Progressive had).
Enjoy!�
May 13, 2015
Max* Anyone can make WAG predictions and claim to be correct. Actually your prediction is not 2 years old, and your previous prediction was for the US and it was flat out wrong...
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May 13, 2015
vdiv Cyclone and travwill,
Thank you for your insight. Ran an online quote with Geico (current insurance for my 2012 Volt). The quote did not have the D models so I picked an S 85. Assuming replacing the Volt with a leased Model S the premium will increase from $380 per 6 months to $696 with the necessary increases in coverage limits. The collision coverage with a $1,000 deductible alone is $435.
Interestingly enough I ran the same quote, this time with an S 60, and the premium went down to $639, collision coverage down to $384.
This actually seems reasonable.�
May 13, 2015
kuttakamina Max*,
Thanks for looking up the history - and while hindsight is 20/20, forward looking predictions are excellent if you hit the 30% accuracy mark. And I do think I did better than 30% there. Indeed I was not correct about some of the predictions in my previous post, just as I will not be correct about some of my predictions in my previous post.
But I was correct about a few. The part about Tax benefits in USA expiring in 2015, I was hoping Tesla would be able to increase their production capacity and hit their quotas - that hasn't happened, I am puzzled why!! They had demand, they had space, they had funds, why not cash in!? But they didn't.
Still, the overall vector sum of my previous post was, used 2012 Model S's with 20-30K miles will be around 50K.
They aren't 50K, but they are around 60K on the used market.
Do remember though, when I wrote that, used Model S's were selling at a premium to new prices.
So predicting that Model S prices would fall, back then, was met by animosity, just like my previous post was.
Arguing with fanboyism gives you stronger lungs, not much else.
Given my prediction, I delayed my planned purchase to early 2015 - and it was the right thing to do. I do make plenty of wrong decisions too, but this decision was correct.
Now, the post I made earlier today.
I still stick with my overall vector sum prediction, which is,
Tesla as a company has difficult times ahead,
- Their excellent customer service will falter.
- You will see fanboyism subside, and customers complain louder about reliability issues.
- The demand for Model S's will subside given increasing competition, higher insurance costs and possibly less favorable political/tax/regulation environment going forward.
My whole point is, Tesla is surrounded by massive fanboyism.
It is important for me atleast (who does not have unlimited play funds), to consider a sane argument on both sides of the equation before making such a huge purchase.
The fabulous Model S isn't perfect. This beautiful princess does have a skidmarked underwear that we continue to ignore.
All that said, I do wish and hope Tesla all the best. A 100% American company, no pollution, no gas - I WISH my tax money was put towards building the gigafactory and not bailing out government motors. But if my wishes were horses.. we'd all be flying electric planes to work.
I see you ordered 70d - that is exactly what I will do too. But I will order an inventory 70d at the end of the year (most probably, still slightly confused).
---
Added Later: The 50K prediction for used Model S's - well, if CPOs are at 60's with a 4 year warranty, only a matter of time before private sellers sell in 50's. And for S&G, look at the responses people had FOR WANT; Model S P85 $50k - Page 5
- - - Updated - - -
One more bearish trend btw - US$ is on the rise and will be on an overall rise pattern over the next 2 years. This means Tesla's other two big markets, Europe and China (when it happens), will find Tesla's become more expensive. Unless Tesla opens manufacturing in Europe or China, which I fully expect to happen. But a new manufacturing facility is more expense.
One thing I did not predict back then is how much Oil would fall. Damn I got burnt on that one. Still a 100K car is relatively less affected by a $1 price drop in gas. But the Model 3 will be,.. that is when/if we see a Model 3 (2020?) ..�
May 13, 2015
Max* I'm not disagreeing with ALL of your assessment (just some of it...), and the only reason I brought up your previous post is that you made an inflammatory statement and then acted like "I'm always 100% correct, and I'm not discussing it with you fanboys. neeneer neeneer".
And I went between the an Audi S4 and the 70D and 85D for a long time... decided I'd give Tesla a shot (knowing all the... concerns/issues) but also decided that the $10k difference for the 85D isn't worth it to me, we can drive my wife's SUV if we ever need the range (shocking! I know! Someone suggesting driving an ICE car AFTER buying a Tesla! And not starting a thread about how horrible ICE cars are!)�
May 13, 2015
kuttakamina I am never 100% correct, but I will not argue senselessly with fanboys either. But I guess I could have been more polite. Apologies for that :redface:
I'm glad you made an educated purchase after looking at all the concerns and issues. Are you planning on buying the service plan for $1900?
PS: Speaking of reliability issues - Consumer Reports' Tesla Model S P85D Breaks Before Testing Begins - Consumer Reports
It baffles my mind why they can't fix these minor annoying issues over 4 years now. Seriously! I won't be using "AutoPilot" without a bucket load of caution.�
May 13, 2015
Max* Nope. I see no point in paying $600 ($475 with plan) for the first year when all they're going to do is replace my wipers and apply a few TSBs... I plan on coming in on the 2nd and 4th years (brake fluid and battery fluid replacement), unless I can figure out how to do those on my own...�
May 13, 2015
steph280 Tesla is already considered by many Chinese consumers as "a deal of the century," as it is the first direct sales model which bypass the middleman that usually markup import vehicles by up to 200%. Even if the price do go up, it will probably have little or no effect to the increase in demand. And if they really build a factory in China, it will probably become a world wide primary production site with its cheap labor and near non-existent environmental laws. Why do you think Apple can make their products affordable for everyone?�
May 13, 2015
Fiver Is there another company called Apple I'm unaware of? Last time I checked Apple products weren't all that cheap...
(Before I get jumped on, I'm typing on Macbook Pro here.)�
May 13, 2015
steph280 If you think the current Apple prices are steep, imagine the same product being made in Silicon Valley...�
May 13, 2015
kushari I agree with you. High sticker price, but low tco (total cost of ownership), just like the tesla. I often make the comparison.�
May 13, 2015
kuttakamina Yes, which is why I expect an overseas manufacturing facility for sure.
However to get to that promised land, you will first have to trudge through the forest of upfront expense and investment.
Also transporting a 1000$ iPhone that weighs < 100 grams vs a 100k car that weighs 3000kgs are different. That is why every car manufacturer manufactures cars in Mexico, not China.
Tesla is is a good fit for China, but there are forces working against tesla in China too. I think eventually tesla will do well in China.�
May 13, 2015
pmoa Hey guys! I'm getting my 70D next week. Can't we just all get along?�
May 13, 2015
Lex Hmm, I say just stick to binary "will / won't" predictions and I'm betting you can get that up to around 50% :tongue:
Tesla has adopted a Customer Experience approach and that's a business decision, not something that rises and falls with cash flow (in fact smart organizations have realized that this can be a huge market differentiator as many firms scale-back proper customer service). Unless they change away from that model itself, you can rest assured knowing they will remain customer-focused.
As for the "fanboyism" you're absolutely right, and in the end "it's just a car" to quote Jerry Seinfeld. But what a car it is -- you know it, we know it, heck everybody knows it :love:�
May 13, 2015
kuttakamina Truth be told, I'm a Tesla fanboy too�
May 13, 2015
DrumCoder Two weeks here!!�
May 13, 2015
Lex Store just told me end of June for my 70D :crying: guess I sat on the fence for a while but maybe they'll add a dozen mad improvements to my later build date haha.
but... I do have to wonder what a month of sleep deprivation will do to me :scared: I usually don't get overly excited but this really is something refreshingly different.
As they say, familiarity breeds contempt, so if you're getting in a position to pounce on a Model S, of course you're (over
Heck I drove by the Lawrence Ave. store here in Toronto on Sunday and didn't see any cars, for a moment I thought they were boarding-up
As for insurance rates, I'm not so sure they'll go up due to repair costs. Every fancy car is expensive to repair. The good news is, most cars don't have an accident. Add the fact that nobody wants to steal the car (or even things in it so far ?? maybe this is like Chris Rock's "hide your money in books, criminals HATE books" rap).�
May 13, 2015
kushari Nothing really to repair on a Tesla that's not covered by warranty unless you crash it. I'm also in Toronto. Let's exchange contact info!�
May 13, 2015
kushari Check your PMs I sent you my contact info.�
May 13, 2015
kaiserpathos I can almost tell you what a month of sleep deprivation can do, I ordered on 4/8 and and taking delivery tomorrow and the last week is the hardest!
Re: Insurance rates - mine didn't go up too badly on a yearly scale, but it's enough to notice. I think insurance companies are on to the whole aluminum panel repair cost thing, though there are more and more body shops adding this capability. I plan to drive super careful and try to avoid any accidents! /fingers crossed�
May 13, 2015
kyalami Ordered my CPO P85 exactly one week ago....Have been contacted three times by Tesla and am now in contact with DS in Watertown Ma.. Car will be available for pickup next week!...Electrician is coming on Saturday to install charging circuit...Very smooooooth so far....I have been a fan for years...finally becoming an owner.�
May 13, 2015
efusco Multiple posts moved to Snippiness.
Play nice.�
May 13, 2015
jswanner Yesterday (13 May), the status of my car changed to "In Production"; I not going to lie, I'm getting pretty excited about it.
My target delivery date is 12 June, but it seems like it's ahead of schedule, it could also just be wishful thinking on my part.�
May 13, 2015
Cyclone Oh most definitely. I don't know how I managed to get through this week. Only 7.5 hours to go though!�
May 14, 2015
lg_golfs In regards to insurance. Stay clear of AAA Insurance. Their price on a Tesla is insane. Ended up leaving them and headed to USAA.�
May 14, 2015
Max* When did you get your target delivery date?
My DS just said "mid-June" after my car confirmed, and hasn't really updated me with anything else since.�
May 14, 2015
RMan Nice surprise this am (May 14) as my car moved to "in production". Seems perfect as wife's birthday is on the 14th (different month) but she has a special relationship with the 14th of every month. Delivery date listed as "late May". Looking forward to hearing from the DS to arrange a Delivery Date. Feel like a kid waiting for Christmas morning!!!�
May 14, 2015
Rama
I have to disagree with this. AAA was the cheapest that quoted me. I am with them for homeowners as well, so that may be part of the reason. Unfortunately I do not qualify for USAA.�
May 14, 2015
JPP My wife and I are long time AAA members and insureds. Great service over the years. Good rates in CA. They beat USAA for our vehicles, and specifically on my S85. Will re-price when we get the S70D.�
May 14, 2015
leftpinky Same here. Our 70d went into production a couple days ago for a late-may delivery. looking forward to driving it�
May 14, 2015
Lex Great to hear about the 70D "in production" surprises !!! Maybe I'll get one too... or at least learn to take "late June" (which I round to end of June) as a "worst case" now (barring unforeseen circumstances of course).
So you were considering the 70D kyalami (clearly, from the thread name alone lol) and pulled the trigger on a sweet CPO eh ?
Gessing it was for:
1. value
2. much shorter wait
3. extra options you wouldn't have ordered
Well, at least those would have been my reasons :biggrin:
Conversely, I suppose my reasons for 70D order are:
1. improvements since 2013 that cannot be retrofitted eg. autodrive
2. the performance profile of the 70D just seemed to hit all the marks for me (including snow, I am sick of getting stuck in a RWD car with snows on)
3. shinier with a nice new colour (blue... and I'm calling it Ocean Blue damnit)
Ok so for me #3 is just really silly I'll admit it lol as I usually buy used by default and have learned to enjoy not caring much for door dings etc. So I guess the core reason I'm sticking with my 70D order is that it just seems ideally packaged, and the financials "work".
Though I would sure love to have a Model S in my hands for this weekend... heck for tonight :love:�
May 14, 2015
Lex Looks like we found our answer regarding Supercharger charge times:
70D owners, what's your supercharging speed (or reliable data from Tesla)?
For me this was the last big unknown, and it looks like the answer is that the 70D charges as fast as the 85D... percentage wise. But not range wise.
Hmm.
Perhaps I feel slightly, every so slightly, slighted. But I'm not thinking about cancelling anything just yet lol (see: previous post with the heart eyes emoticon lol)
And, I suppose we can't blame Tesla marketing much for not wanting to bother with the whole topic at all -- unless, of course, we find out there's been a concerted effort to quash actual data.... heck if I was given a 70D to test drive for a review, I'd most certainly swing by a Supercharger and record all data, but not one mention so far xcept for in the thread above, and so far that's just one T store rep's report...�
May 14, 2015
travwill It makes sense really, also have a 70D on order and expected this. That last 10%-20% of the batter takes longer to top off and charge, charging slows down as it nears capacity and 70D is 18% smaller...�
May 14, 2015
lg_golfs I had them for homeowners as well as earthquake. 30+ years with them with no claims on either house or auto. My quote on an 85K 70D was $3600 per year. Compared to my A5 which I was paying $1400 a year for.
USAA my Tesla is $125 per month.�
May 14, 2015
swadhwani I thought tesla takes two months to order, build, and deliver? I am in the market but don't want to wait two months�
May 14, 2015
Lex Ya it does seem to make sense, the more I think about it, even though I've been bragging "200 miles in 20 minutes !" If I keep that up I might as well say it has the INSANE button, too lol. Guess I'll be planning for 30-40 min. stops on the existing Supercharger network for some routes.
So if 80 to 90% is slowww hopefully we'll rarely need it... if we BUILD THAT SUPERCHARGER NETWORK !!! They seem to be taking a break in Eastern Canada ... otherwise I'm adopting Bjorn's camper mode for naps.�
May 14, 2015
S4WRXTTCS That supercharging speed thread got me excited to see some real numbers from owners, but sadly no real numbers yet.
I knew going in that one of the compromises with the 70D was going to be miles/min while supercharging. That I'd have to wait around much longer than 30-40 minutes if I needed anything over 192, and that if I got an 85D it would raise that to 216.
That 25 miles might not seem significant, but it just so happens to be that I go from Seattle to Portland at least once a month. So that means charging in Centralia at least up to 216 if not more because it's a little over 180 miles from Centralia to Portland, and back to Centralia.
Aside from that I don't do road trips that much so the 70D was still the right choice even though it wasn't ideal for the one trip I do routinely take. I might have to drive a little slower, charge a little longer, or do destination charging. I did get the Chademo adapter, but sadly most of the Chademo stations in Portland are rated a 2-4 by plugshare users.
The first few months of ownership I'll be spending lot of time experimenting with various options.�
May 14, 2015
Lex Sorry if I misled you, but we didn't have to wait long for more info, there's a Supercharging screenshot here:
Supercharging the 70D - Page 2�
May 14, 2015
Bonlaw My 70D was 30 days from confirmation to delivery. Can't complain about that for a special order car.�
May 15, 2015
lg_golfs I just hit In Transit! Wondering how long it will take to work its way to me. Not sure if that means its still sitting in their parking lot, etc.�
May 15, 2015
Thud That makes sense if you consider that each individual cell charges at the same rate, but the 85D has more cells. So the percentage would be the same, but the rated miles would be greater for each percent of charge. Per-cell charge rate seems to be higher than the 60kwh though. So rather than compare with the 85, compare with the 60.�
May 15, 2015
jswanner Oh no... The status of my car has gone back to "Order Confirmed - Your Model S has entered the production queue at our Factory in Fremont, California." :crying:
I don't know if it's abnormal for the status to be reverted like that or not.�
May 15, 2015
Cyclone I just drove from Washington DC -> Charlotte, NC in a 85 and stopped for 15-20 at 2 Superchargers (skipped one as well). A 70D can totally do this same trip with a negligible difference.�
May 15, 2015
S4WRXTTCS Mine went into production two days before yours and I'm still in production.�
May 15, 2015
DrumCoder I've got a delivery date of May 28th on a 70D that finished production on the 7th. Kinda sucks that it takes 3 weeks to get to Georgia when it seems like everyone else has one or two week delivery times.�
May 15, 2015
ACDCAC I'm using your status updates to estimate my delivery since we are in the same state
Fingers crossed that I beat the tax credit expiration deadline!�
May 15, 2015
Rama 
Picked up a few hours ago!�
May 15, 2015
Rule_of_72 Gorgeous! Congrats. I will have an obsidian black 70D sitting in my driveway by the end of the month. Love the color choice, looks nice. I have the same rims too (not a fan of the fancier ones personally).�
May 16, 2015
jswanner I think Tesla is just trying to play with my emotions. The status of my car is now "Production Complete."�
May 16, 2015
pmoa Awesome! What are your thoughts so far?�
May 16, 2015
Rama Love it of course!
I actually lucked out and got a feature that I didn't pay for: power lift gate! It was a part of the tech package (I think) at the time I place my order.�
May 17, 2015
Papafox If you're in a hurry to get a car, you can buy a car in a service center or show room that has been used for a couple months of demos. You get a discount and the cars are generally treated very well.�
May 17, 2015
evsolarman Tesla cars are state of art.. But I am curious to know why it takes Tesla 3 whole weeks to ship the car to the east coast after it has finished manufacturing. If transported by road, it will not take more than a week to get it across the country.�
May 17, 2015
MorrisonHiker Shipping via train is very efficient but can be a lot slower than a truck that only ships a few cars at a time. One of my friends ordered a Ford Fusion hybrid last year and once it was shipped from the factory via train, it took three weeks to arrive. He tracked it every day as it went from railyard to railyard. The trains don't ship just cars but all kinds of other cargo. They go from hub to hub and don't necessarily follow the most direct route. In order to be the most efficient as possible, the train only moved to the next railyard when there were several other cars that needed to go to the same destination. At one point, my friend's car was at a railyard 90 miles away but he had to wait several more days before the train that his car was on made it to Denver. After that, it still took the dealership another day or two to prep it. I'm assuming Teslas shipped via rail have the same logistical delays.�
May 17, 2015
evsolarman What do you mean by efficient - is that the best way to ship without wearing the car (I'd gladly wait 3 weeks if the risk of wear/damage to the car is significantly higher by road)? Or is it the cheapest option to ship for Tesla?�
May 17, 2015
lg_golfs Man would I love for this to happen to me as well, but, I doubt it. When did you purchase and confirm??�
May 17, 2015
wk057 Anyone have a screen shot of a 70D supercharging?�
May 17, 2015
spottyq Someone forgot to read the forum as of late ! ;-)
Granted, a lot is being said about the 70D, with all the "My car just got delivered !"
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/46332-Supercharging-the-70D?p=1008621&viewfull=1#post1008621�
May 17, 2015
Rama April 9th. Picked up Friday. I actually think the car was available earlier for pick up but I was out of town for business. So less than 6 weeks.
The lift gate is sweet, but not necessary. My 5'0" wife can work it without the power feature if needed.�
May 17, 2015
Lex It will end up being a very nice bonus for preventing possible liftgate damage -- folks have reported that the hatch raises so high that it can hit things eg. in underground parking. With the power liftgate you can set the max. lift height.
With the manual liftgate I'll just have to learn to watch out. I'm also thinking of some sort of flip-out blanket to protect the painted bumper, which is right there in front of the cargo opening.
Would be nice, but as mine was a fresh 70D order I'm not holding my breath for the same freebie :biggrin:�
May 17, 2015
kaiserpathos +1 on the manual liftgate being a little better in underground garages. I am working this weekend and went down to put something in the back of the car and the hatch went quite high via the gas hatch struts, and I have no doubt another inch or two (likely with auto liftgate) and it would have popped the garage's piping running overhead where I parked.
I'm quite satisfied with the manual liftgate, it's extremely light and the liftgate struts are very "lifty" already with minimal effort. Seriously, you can start lifting the whole hatch with your pinky finger and it will finish rising under it's own momentum from the liftgate struts.
These cars are so amazing, you just don't care or miss some bundled packages so going with just the essentials is absolutely a good way to go.�
May 17, 2015
Rama I'm going to get clear bra in this area when I get my front area done.�
May 17, 2015
kushari I was thinking something like this might happen. I noticed around the time we ordered our cars, when they released the 70D they also changed what comes in some of the packages. Awesome!�
May 17, 2015
Cyclone I think you misunderstood Lex. The manual liftgates have either fully open, or fully closed. The power liftgates have programmable height, then manual the rest of the way if you didn't go to fully open. This latter function can be a bonus for those who might have low hanging items a fully open liftgate would hit.�
May 17, 2015
kushari I would have to say both. It's much cheaper as a train can take more cars and also it's cheaper. They probably just connect the cars to the next outbound train at the hub, which makes it efficient from a logistics perspective. Also the car never leaves the train car so it's also inside and not exposed or transferred so it's kept safer.�
May 18, 2015
DrumCoder Just got my NEMA 14-50 installed...Now the 10 day wait for delivery...
itshappening.gif�
May 18, 2015
3mp_kwh I can vouch for this (as well as limited 'tech' items showing up in recent 10/14-3/15, non-tech'd cars). I was miss-informed by a Tesla phone rep that manual liftgates "go where you leave them", or need to be manually lifted to the height you desire. Nope. Those struts put it to max height, from any usable amount. They do it pretty fast, too. I'd say same height, as auto (by eye).
What can be done to get around this is replacing the struts with shorter ones. I think they're spec'd by the diameter of the ball end they mate to (3/8", 1/4"..), the length they extend to, and the weight they are meant to carry. Search on "hood struts". There is good and bad quality in this market, but don't despair. I'm sure Tesla didn't make their own, and the the OE supplier could possibly have a solution. Just don't assume a 2" shorter strut means 2" lower height (check the geometry of your hatch). Price ~$20-150 each, having done trial and error with another car.�
May 18, 2015
kushari I'm going to dip my car. Can't wait.�
May 18, 2015
DrumCoder I have delivery scheduled for Thursday the 28th at 10AM, which is 21 days after it finished production. According to my awesome DS, my car is currently on a train in Olive Branch, Mississippi. It has to head to Birmingham where it will then be trucked over to the Marietta showroom. I'm hoping that doesn't take 10 days...
...I just got my NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in my garage this morning, so I'm good to go. This will be the longest 10 days ever...�
May 18, 2015
boonedocks
@DrumCoder Did your car sit at the Tesla factory or ship right after finishing production? If all goes well I should be out of production today or tomorrow. I can't stand the thought of another 21 days. Sigh!!
I am having second thoughts that I should have scheduled delivery through Marietta with your "awesome DS" as I have received one phone call from my DS introducing himself after confirming my order. Meanwhile I have left no fewer than 6 emails and phone calls concerning my trade and financing and haven't received ANY communication back. I have even stopped by their store and left a personal message as well.�
May 18, 2015
pmoa I was told by my DS that my car is stuck in a railyard in Chicago and its waiting for an east bound train to bring it to the east coast. Another 10 days to wait�
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