Feb 25, 2015
Auzie BMW seem to have difficulties making up their mind about i5/i7
New rumours on BMW i5 (or i7, not decided yet)
Very difficult to let go of petrol bit.
:love::love::love:. ..................................................:love::love::love:�
Feb 26, 2015
Auzie Hot
McLaren lighter, longer supercar revealed
:love::love::love:
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Feb 26, 2015
mspohr Sounds like a frankencar.�
Feb 26, 2015
Auzie Combustion engine must be part of the future, one way or the other
It is like a protected species
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Apr 2, 2015
FluxCap Not going to bother posting about Porsche's yawn-inspiring "hypothetical EV" to add to the "hypothetical" GM, Audi and BMW competition.
But I will post this, because it's freakin' awesome:
Dark Horse: the story of a record-shattering, all-electric '68 Mustang | The Verge
I really look forward to my 5-year old son being able to tweak/tinker with/hot rod his BEV someday. Maybe this is a beginning.�
Apr 2, 2015
kenliles Best quote in that re: market of unique cars:
"frankly, Tesla's are rare anymore" -
thank goodness
thanks for the post Flux!�
Apr 4, 2015
Johan BTW did you guys see the Toyota Mirai's new "Inane mode"? 0-60 in 9 seconds. No wait that's standard mode...
Also did you see how much Toyota belives in the Mirai? It's getting super special treatment:
"Toyota will be manufacturing the fuel cell vehicles in the same area where it put together the Lexus LFA supercar. The assembly team, which is composed of 13 people, will be manually assembling the Mirai units to produce three cars daily without the usage of conveyors that are commonly seen in mass-production facilities, Toyota Motomachi plant assistant manager Mitsuyuki Suenaga said to reporters."�
Apr 4, 2015
austinEV
Oh my goodness the "stations" map is beyond sad: Toyota Mirai – The Turning Point�
Apr 4, 2015
Johan I don't get the map. What is a "supporter" station?
Nice if Tesla did this with SCs. Red for "here's one" and grey for "it'd be cool if we put one here"�
Apr 4, 2015
AnxietyRanger ...one can argue they have to start somewhere, and ICEs started somewhere too.
That said, even while Tesla's and EVs in general charging maps originally were pretty sad (still are in many places), the difference there is home "fuelling". I for one would become an AnxietyRanger in a Mirai very fast and in a completely new fashion, that's for sure.
Also, that fuel cell diagram is not instilling me with warm and fuzzy feelings of simplicity and beauty... Fuel cells and alternatives to ICE are interesting, but color me unimpressed so far.�
Apr 5, 2015
hiroshiy I think it's another side of the fact that the vehicle is too complex to build on a conveyor. The only hand manufacture line they chose to use. Not a special treatment IMHO. Only governments just buy those for Tsukiai, keeping relationships well.
In Japan we have "mobile" FC stations; i.e. they didn't have enough money to have a fixed FC station. At one place in the morning, another place in the afternoon.�
Apr 5, 2015
Johan I was being ironical. The paragraph quoted above is an attempt to spin the fact that cars like this are extremely expensive to make, are hand built and in very small numbers, in to something positive.�
Apr 5, 2015
austinEV Indeed, gasoline stations started rare too. Electric doesn't have this problem. There are plugs everywhere. There is electric infrastructure everywhere. Even the challenge of doing a Supercharger station pales to the challenge of a hydrogen station. We HAD to build out the zillion dollar gasoline infrastructure in the 20th century. There is no similar need to build out a massive Hydrogen network. This will be the Betamax of vehicles.
Also, hydrogen pumps cannot effectively meter how much is being taken. They don't have a viable model for even billing customers.�
Apr 5, 2015
Auzie Every new BMW to get a hybrid version
BMW NA CEO Ludwig Willisch on:
-future BMW models: 'every new model will have a hybrid version as well'
-on i5 and i7: 'Not anytime soon'
-and on Tesla as a competitor: 'I wouldn't say I don't see any competition. But I still see that a Series 5 BMW and a Tesla are completely different animals'.
S and X................................ BMW
Ah how could I forget roadster roaming around
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Apr 6, 2015
CHGolferJim Willisch doesn't mention 3 or 7 series
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Jul 24, 2015
Newb CA Fuel-Cell Car Drivers Say Hydrogen Fuel Unavailable, Stations Don't Work
"early lessees of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles in Southern California are complaining that they can't reliably fuel them at the handful of stations now supposedly operating in their region. The stations are frequently inoperative, they say, closed for days or weeks at a time.
[...] Moreover, when the stations are functioning properly, they sometimes can only fuel one or two cars before an hour-long wait is required--and some stations can only fuel the cars to half-full. A private Facebook group for drivers of the Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell SUV overflows with complaints about these issues, and the lack of accountability among the several different parties who oversee pieces of the nascent hydrogen fueling infrastructure."
So much about the superiority of fool cells and hydrogen storage and distribution...�
Jul 24, 2015
austinEV
Wow, that is crazy bad. The supporters of H2 should be throwing resources at this. If you buy into the consipiracy theory that the old guard wants to support H2 to discredit pure EV, then doubly so. They are taking the one advantage of H2 (ordinary, fast fueling) and turning it into the false complaint levelled at Pure EV's, namely that it takes a long time and you have to wait at superchargers. My personal consipiracy theory is that H2 proponents want to be seen to support it, find that the public doesn't buy them, then use that as an argument to water down CARB requirements on the logic that people hate AF vehicles. But to do this just undermines everything. It undermines real adoption, and it undermines the false narrative that "we tried, everyone hates them". I mean these drivers must be switching to their other cars right? No way would I dependon on a FCV if the fuel supply was iffy.�
Jul 25, 2015
Newb yep, this is really crazy bad. :biggrin: I mean, digest that: you live in California which is kind of a pilot project state for hydrogen fuel stations. you drive this utterly expensive hydrogen-fool-cell-car through town and your tank is getting close to being empty. You go to one of those massively expensive hydrogen fueling stations, and it's just closed and nobody notified you or your car.
What do you do then? You're stranded there, and the best thing: nobody cares. No party involved feels responsible. And then, even if it is open, and you're unlucky enough that some other early adopter of FCVs has just successfully managed to refuel, you've got to wait an hour to get refilled to half tank (which is a theoretical range of just about ~150 miles, btw). Then you go home and the next day you wake up with the uncomfortable feeling that you couldn't recharge to 100% over night, you cannot rely on the hydrogen fueling stations but you're totally dependent - every single day of your life you depend on those crappy hydrogen fueling stations.
And about the responsibility/accountability issue: If hydrogen is so inexpensive to produce, efficient to distribute, and in general the "bright future" of fuels, why the heck nobody takes care of non-functioning fueling stations? Imagine Tesla did this with superchargers and totally frustrate early-adopters - they'd severly damage their business model and the integrity of their vision of free and clean long-distance travel. It's either just unbelieveably dumb action from the hydrogen people or this whole hydrogen idea does only work on paper, but surely not in reality. Poor poor early-adopters...�
Jul 25, 2015
atang Okay @austinEV and @Newb, You guys are so correct in your calling BS on Hydrogen. But I already had to clean coffee off my screen and keybord once, now twice! You guys are having entirely too much fun with this matter. But hay, I'm laughing right along with both of you! :tongue:�
Jul 25, 2015
Johan One alternative view could be that this whole fiasco with hydrogen cars coming to market extremely slowly, with poor performance, with a completely non-functioning infrastructure etc. is an intentional strategy from the ICE makers aimed at demonstrating to the world that going away from ICEs (with the exception of small battery hybrids) is oh so difficult and will take decades. And that consumers just need to accept this and keep buying gasoline powered cars.
And actually this strategy would have worked perfectly, with small, short range, weird looking EVs as a super niche product if it weren't for Tesla coming along really stirring the pot and throwing the big car makers off their game.
See, they had planned on having decades to devest their ICE factories, dealer systems, to build up in house expertise etc. Not 5-10 years or whatever Tesla is doing to the market.�
Jul 27, 2015
austinEV Johan, your conspiracy theory is as good as most, but strikes me as sub-optimal because the public already thinks that. I think their audience is regulators. If *I* were in charge of killing AFV's, and I am not, I would go the route of keeping the fuel stations working. That way they can tell the regulatory officials that they honestly did everything they could to support the idea. They don't need to *further* poison the idea, beyond the original sin of designing a H2 fuel vehicle. H2 at it's best won't succeed and they know it. But, I guess this might be even better since Toyota can blame the state government for the failure of 2015, and buy some time to let H2 fail by itself in 2016/2017. Hmmm.
This is the reason I think McDonalds keeps selling salads. I think they really don't want to, and they don't make money, and they don't sell very many. I think it is so when they are inevitably sued they can just say "we try to sell healthy food, but you people don't buy them". Toyota and the other Big ICE cars want to say "we tried making low-range wierdmobiles, but you people don't by them". Its a get-out-of-jail free ploy.�
Jul 27, 2015
Johan Yeah maybe you're right, they love the fact that they can share/place the blame for the failure of "green cars" with the regulators.
It's like a boxer taking a fall since that'll pocket him more than a win would have.
At least that we they thought they were in line for, until Tesla came and suddenly turned the clock forward 10 years. Highly unsettling and not at all what they expected.�
Oct 21, 2015
uselesslogin Looks like Toyota is pushing the Mirai on "Back to the Future" day.
Fueled by the Future | Back to the Future | Presented by Toyota Mirai - YouTube�
Oct 28, 2015
Newb Don't really know where to put this, but came across some frightening parallel while watching old Kodak ads/commercials...
Jurassic Park 1997:
Jurassic Park 2015
...bad omen, if you ask me...�
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