Jan 14, 2015
PatD Anyone else notice the Design Studio no longer has next gen rear seats?
Maybe this is in another thread (Buried deep about the next gen seats), but I can't find it.
Was playing with the design studio today and when you switch to next gen seats, the rears don't change. I was in a MS last week that had the front next gen seats, and I asked the sales rep (Before we got to the car) if it had the rears. He said yes. I told him I was surprised as I hadn't heard anyone having the rears yet. When I got in and looked at the rears, they didn't LOOK like the next gens shown online. Didn't have the high head rests or the big bulges between the seats. But they also didn't look like the original seats either.
Maybe Tesla did away with the CRAZY next gen rear seats? And just did a mild upgrade to the rears for all cars?
Mod Note: Threads merged. Please see Post #12 for word from Tesla.�
Jan 14, 2015
frosken Yep, postet in Why do people think Recaro is making the Next Generation seats? - Page 3
�
Jan 14, 2015
PatD Duh - why didn't I think to look there?
�
Jan 14, 2015
joer00 I do have the NG seats front and back, so it seems they have this solved now.�
Jan 14, 2015
mrElbe Yes they solved it by putting in the old seats and still asking the same outrageous price for just Next gen front seats.
The first picture is the new configuration. Notice the old vertical stitching. The second picture are the previously advertised "Next Gen" seats.
So it looks like they are weaseling out of replacing the rear seats for those who already took delivery of their P85D with the old rear seats.�
Jan 14, 2015
joer00 I said I HAVE the NG seats in the back. Pics:
�
Jan 14, 2015
mrElbe Joer00, you are one of the lucky ones.�
Jan 14, 2015
felixtb Actually even more than you think. As someone else pointed out in another of the threads on the subject. Even the PDF for your order has changed to this new/old combo... however, my price has been reduced as well by $1000.........
-------------------------------update---------------------------------
I would rather have the exec back seat and now my P85D has just finished production.... So hopefully can retrofit or have to cancel and re-order.... I guess i might be looking at May delivery instead of currently end Feb..... :-(�
Jan 14, 2015
darthy001 Price reduction due to having the premium interior-package?�
Jan 14, 2015
felixtb Price reduction due to, I guess, no longer getting the next generation back seats......!!�
Jan 14, 2015
CHGolferJim Awesome, you have Pearl White with all black interior? Like it? Any pics showing the two together from various angles by any chance? I personally don't like multicolor interiors, and black is the only choice for that at the moment, right?�
Jan 14, 2015
MarcG I called Tesla Ownership on 1/14/2015 at 9:45 am PST regarding the fact that next-generation seat option is no longer showing the rear next-gen seats on the configurator (see before/after pics below).
Apparently, due to some feedback from existing owners of the next-generation rear seats, Tesla has decided to discontinue them for new orders starting this week. It sounds like Tesla is saying that people have been complaining about them, but I'm not so sure about that.
So, if you have next-gen rear seats, can you please post your feedback here?
Thanks!
-Marc
BEFORE (front & back):
AFTER (front only):
�
Jan 14, 2015
McMuggets
Strange. Here in Canada my order confirmed before the change to seats occurred. My PDF docs remain unchanged so I guess I am still going to get the Next-Gen seats in the back too. Yay.�
Jan 14, 2015
fviken Based on info from a Norwegian DS, this is due to customers complaining that the rear seats do not fold as flat as the FirstGen seats. According to the DS, all customers that have ordered NextGen seats will be asked if they want to keep them or not.
My initial impression is to keep the seats, as the difference in "flatness" seems minor and is not a key issue for me. However, if there are other problems related to comfort etc. I might change my mind.
So, before deciding on this, please give your impression of the NextGen back seats. Any feedback is very welcome!
In all, very strange behavior from Tesla, as the NextGen fronts and FirstGen back seats do not really match. Also the ones now shown are the "old" FirstGen seats with the small head restraints. Also I thought the larger head restraints were needed to pass the 5 Star NCAP security test.�
Jan 14, 2015
Txy The price is the same here in the Canadian designer page as it was with the recaro rear seats, while the photo no longer shows them in the back�
Jan 14, 2015
Jgdixon Well I know there were concerns about ingress and egress with the seat bolstering as well as the larger headrests on top of them not folding flat. I wonder what happens in the firm if a credit for those of us that ordered the next gen but didn't get them versus people that got just the fronts?�
Jan 14, 2015
hhh They need to make all front seats delivered in all Teslas "next gen" and remove the insane price for upgraded seats.�
Jan 14, 2015
yobigd20 this. every non-P85D owner shouldn't be forced to suffer with the uncomfortable old seats. the next-gen seats should be standard on all vehicles. I find it ridiculous for them to revert back to the old seats in the rear. now there is a mix of new and old seats - screwed up is what I call that.�
Jan 14, 2015
tdelta1000 Maybe some of the complaints were that the headrests were too tall or maybe the seats were sitting too high when folded downward.�
Jan 14, 2015
hockeythug One of Musk's kids must have not liked them.�
Jan 14, 2015
liuping The headrests were definitely too high (they basically touched the ceiling in non pano cars), but the seats were more comfortable. It's too bad they removed the option.�
Jan 14, 2015
andrewket As someone who received his car with the old seats and is owed front and back NG seats, I echo others here seeking feedback from those of you who took delivery with rear NG seats. Especially if you have feedback from kids, family, etc. Are they comfortable? Does the extra bolstering help with lateral support? Does it make it more difficult to enter/exit the vehicle? How about car seats? I had actually ordered a carseat with a narrow base specifically for the NG rear seat. It's still sitting my garage, unused. I also wonder how the rear seat will wear over time with the bolstering.
If Tesla is going to discontinue the NG rears, it would be nice if they designed a rear seat that looks the same as the fronts (horizontal stitching, for example.)�
Jan 14, 2015
Andyw2100 While I too might be concerned about wear, I would hope that Tesla will keep a bunch of these around as possible replacements for those of us that choose to move forward with what we originally ordered, which at the time was their top of the line seating option. I plan to have both the front and back Next Generation seats installed in my P85D as soon as I'm informed they are available. If in a few years some issue develops, under warranty, with my rear seat, I am hoping I won't be told, "Sorry--we discontinued that seat, and we can't match it now. You knew when we put it in that it was discontinued." While that would be true, I also knew when I ordered it that it was brand new, and the top of the line. I think I am being completely reasonable in wanting my front seats and back seats to be a perfect match.�
Jan 14, 2015
AnxietyRanger That's weird. Why not just make the rear optional: Basic, Sport, Executive. Or something like that.
I guess the Executive Rear seat is still an option for similar seats.
Still, an odd switcharoo so quickly.�
Jan 14, 2015
Jgdixon I just heard from Jerome directly. If we are due the next gen seats we can get them but no credit.
He would not confirm a time frame on when we would get the fronts.�
Jan 14, 2015
CHGolferJim Wonder if the issue is with the supplier.�
Jan 14, 2015
AMP85D I agree. Mismatched seats are not acceptable in a $30k car, let alone a $130k car.
I would accept the rear seats with less bolstering but the same stitch pattern as the front. What they have now is a complete mismatch, and that seems to also be the case with the executive rear seats.
As far as the rear headrests, I think they will remain high. The design studio was never updated to show the higher headrests on the standard seats.�
Jan 14, 2015
MarcG Did he clarify front or rear seats when he referred to "the next gen seats"?�
Jan 14, 2015
Gizmotoy This doesn't really affect me, but I have to say I'm a bit shocked. Maybe this is a temporary situation while they rev the back seats again? To resolve the ingress/egress & folding complaints, it looks like they could have just slimmed down or eliminated the two central bolsters. Paying $3.5k for mismatched seats seems awfully crappy, especially since the fronts are such a gigantic improvement.
The high headrests in the back are, I think, a safety issue. The "new old" seats are better, but they definitely don't seem tall enough to protect tall passengers from whiplash in a rear collision. They're going to have to do some auto-folding thing like Mercedes eventually to pull them down when no one's back there, or at the very least make them manually-removable like practically every other automaker.
This is a mess.�
Jan 14, 2015
Jgdixon Credit if you don't want the fronts, no credit for the back.
I just asked about the mismatching but haven't heard anything yet.�
Jan 14, 2015
pmppk My due bill specifically says "next-gen seats, front and rear." Is it wrong to expect to receive what I am due, or compensation if they are not able to fulfill that item completely?�
Jan 14, 2015
sataponw But the new high headrest is now standard with all the seats though. So we are still stuck with high headrest seats even without NG seats. So I don't think that complaint is really one of the issue.
I am happy that I bought the NG seats in time. They look really nice.
- - - Updated - - -
From my understanding from Jgdixon's previous messages, Jerome said that you will get the next-gen seats in the rear. However, if you choose to not take the rear NG seats, then there is no credit for the rear.�
Jan 14, 2015
Jgdixon Correct�
Jan 14, 2015
mfreese Does "if we are due" mean if you ordered the NG seats, or only if you already took delivery and have a due bill.�
Jan 14, 2015
Jgdixon @sataponw Do you have next gen in the rear? The jury is still out about the center headrest size in the newer 'old' seats versus the next gen. We can check next week at our meeting as there will be a bunch of different cars there.
- - - Updated - - -
If you have next gen on order you will get them, I was referring to a due bill.�
Jan 14, 2015
MarcG Mine says the same thing. And the Tesla Ownership rep said I would still get both front & rear if I still wanted them. However, he also said I would NOT get a refund if I just wanted the fronts. That part sounds fishy to me, although it's true that new orders only get the front next-gen seats for $3,500. However at the time I ordered, it was both front & rear for $3,500.�
Jan 14, 2015
AnOutsider I know the prototype is "old" at this point, but I liked the flexibility of the Model X headrests
Perhaps the NG rears cost the same and it's the fronts that cost more? 1750 EXTRA per seat then.�
Jan 14, 2015
CHGolferJim I'm losing track.......for a mid-year 2015 S85D order, are the front and back seats the same as were being shipped in mid 2014 and before? That is, no improvements other than snipping the springs to allow the person to settle slightly lower?�
Jan 14, 2015
breser Not everyone thinks the old seats are uncomfortable. I wouldn't have paid another $2k for the new seats if they were an option on my 85D. But the back seats were my biggest concern about the new seats. The bolsters looked ridiculous on the bench seat and obviously would degrade the seat folding flat to some degree. If Tesla wants to make the new seats standard on all new vehicles, that wouldn't bother me. But if they don't it also wouldn't bother me. By the same token I don't care if they offer the next gen seats to everyone regardless of which battery/motors they get. But I don't feel that I'm suffering with uncomfortable old seats, nor do I think the majority of owners would agree with that sentiment.�
Jan 14, 2015
ecarfan My wife and I find the "old" seats in our 2013 S quite comfortable even during several 7 hour driving days that we have done. So don't assume that everyone finds the original S seats "uncomfortable".�
Jan 14, 2015
NoMoGas Not a big fan of changing PDF's, should just update with a new one as these are legal documents.�
Jan 14, 2015
David_Cary The rear seat issue is going to get me to cancel my P85D as silly as that sounds. I am not paying $3500 for front seats only and the only reason I can justify ponying up for the P85D is the next gen seats. Obviously a bit of rationalization but this seat things has me wondering about Tesla and their decision making.....
And I certainly am concerned that the price will get reduced right after I purchase and I would be annoyed. No way am I going to risk being annoyed....�
Jan 14, 2015
joer00 I don;t think anybody should not get the NG back seats based on the "folding issue". I do not see any difference between the old and the ones. The folded down seats where always higher than the trunk. I realized that badly when I tried to sleep in the trunk ! Again here is a photo of my NG back seat folded. Go out to your car and let me know if that looks different !
�
Jan 14, 2015
yobigd20 yea I tried to do that once (for other reasons HAHA) and noticed that it was definitely not flush - it was def angled a bit upwards. from your photo, I can't see how that angles any different. looks the same to me.�
Jan 14, 2015
NielsChr Old performance seats were quite nice, and loved them - both front and back, so they are absolutely fine seats. Back seats could tough have been more reclined by an inch or 2.
Im going to hold on to my next gen rear seats order - lay flat or not doesent matter.
I paid extra for the next gen seats and I will not accept mixed stitching front to rear, and the new next gen back seats are like a 3 seat executive in comparingson to the old style rear - my kids will love it.
Next gen rear and front is the only combination where stitcing match front and rear. even the new 2 seat executive rear have "old style" stitching and will not match next gen front seats.
Even if they offered me executive back seats instead at no extra cost, I wouldent take it as they look different.�
Jan 14, 2015
jpet I totally agree, NielsChr. Don't understand that Tesla simply updated the pdf behind the View Design button on confirmed orders. And all this without informing us. Hope it is just a bug in the UI and that we will still get next gen seats front and back as expected.�
Jan 14, 2015
yobigd20 Ok the thing that pisses me off about the whole "no more next gen rear seats" is that once again, just like the cup holder cinchers, the complaints of a few outweigh the needs of the many. A few complaints sparked Tesla to totally discontinue the brand new next gen rear seats and revert to a mixed combination of next gen front seats and old gen rears seats??? I have a really hard time believing that is the truth. Honestly thinking about it, nobody in their sane management mind would make that decision. I'm calling BS on Jerome here. I would believe something more like "it wouldn't pass safety tests" or "the higher headrest view obstruction would reduce safety rating" or "it doesn't work with or fit baby seat regulations" or just anything more believable than "it doesn't fold down all the way". I think we're getting some BS excuse and they aren't telling us the truth.
And on top of that, changing legal documents behind our backs without authorization is probably illegal.
(fyi I don't have anything on order, I love Tesla but I am just as offended as anyone else on this matter...as it just doesn't seem "right")�
Jan 14, 2015
Hookmaker This is starting to look like a joke! I feel like Tesla is dragging me around by the nose with their vehicle upgrade policy. Can�t help wondering what they�re going to launch alone in the next six months. At least I now have a legal reason to cancel my P85D order and get a ful refund of my down payment. Keep the old one and see what�s up in a years time. Maybe a model S with option for great X seats?�
Jan 14, 2015
Danal I don't believe they updated any PDFs because I don't believe they store the PDFs themselves.
Playing with the URL and the web site and response time and more, I believe they generate the PDF every time you click the button. Furthermore, the internal "metadata" inside the PDF shows a create date/time stamp that matches California time for when you click the button. Each time.
I further conclude that the photo of the rear seat did not "Change" for people's committed orders... it is simply being pulled from the photo file on disk each and every time we click for a PDF.
Therefore, we need someone at Tesla to officially state the status of existing, pending, orders. Do we get the Next-Gen rear seats or not?�
Jan 14, 2015
NielsChr Im not at all worryed - Tesla have always keept promises - so just be calm, its a nice compagny and every emplyee wil do it's best to satisfy you
They will likely offer you the next gen OR the performance style at your choise. and as Danal says, the pdf are a online version fetching the picture realtime - don't put to mutch into the content of the pdf. If you do, download it and save it localy (call it a software bug on the website)
I do not think its a joke - its a wise descision made to make shure new orderes are delivered with what they can deliver - no reasoon to promise/show new orders next gen backseats if they can not supply the demand and will deliver with performance style. - I do not see why they should inform me of changes affecting orders made tomorrow - only if they change my order, wich I belive they have not done yet.�
Jan 14, 2015
gpetti Just to be clear, the $1000 reduction is due to lowering the Premium Interior package. The seats are still priced the same.�
Jan 14, 2015
tc4542 Read my post over on the other, "Why do you think Recaro is making these seats?" thread. I'd like your thoughts.�
Jan 14, 2015
gpetti You should check your pdf again. I'm assuming people mean the document that appears when I select "Design" for my car? Mine now shows the mixed seat configuration which I believe is what other people are seeing. This is a bit alarming. I'm hoping this is because the design doc gets auto generated using images from a common source that has now changed. My car is just in assembly today so its anyone's guess what I get.�
Jan 14, 2015
mrElbe Yes, when I select "Design" it shows the new configuration and the "Premium Interior Package" is reduced by CAD$ 1000.- . I conclude also that this is an auto generation because I doubt that my already signed my Purchase agreement will be amended.�
Jan 14, 2015
REBroker
You are not alone, these are my feelings exactly. I'm not taking mismatched seats, and a big part of my ordering the P85D, or buying new all together vs buying pre-owned, was the next gen seats. If I don't get them I may cancel and buy a cheap S85 while Tesla figures things out.�
Jan 14, 2015
Txy I could see a complete seat upgrade costing what it costed... but the same price for only the front seat upgrade makes the decision a little more difficult for me.�
Jan 14, 2015
REBroker The other thing that bothers me is that if the seats are not up to Tesla's satisfaction, they may design some new-better back seats for delivery this summer and then we are all screwed with discontinued, and snubbed back seats. :/�
Jan 14, 2015
3s-a-charm On a bright note... the Premium Interior Package came down $1,000 and despite ordering it at the higher rate, my car's price came down by that amount. A nice surprise!�
Jan 14, 2015
mrElbe Did you get confirmation on that? Did you already sign a Purchase Agreement with the old pricing in it?�
Jan 14, 2015
GetAmped Does anyone have official communication from Tesla regarding what will be delivered to the P85D owners (such as me) that are waiting on Front and Rear Next Generation seats?
I agree that the next Generation fronts with the either the newer (big headrest) rear seats which I have now will look mismatched. I would like the option provided to me personally to have the Next Generation fronts with the 2 Seat Executive Setup in the back.�
Jan 14, 2015
maddog1762 They executive and next gen seats have different stitching, next gen horizontal and executive vertical. Strange�
Jan 14, 2015
breser They didn't change any legal documents. As Danal has already pointed out the View Design button generates a PDF every time you click on it. The View Design button replaces the ability to edit the design once you have confirmed. The PDF it generates is not a legal document, it's just something handy for you to look at and see the design of the vehicle once the configuration interface is gone.
The real legal document is the Vehicle Configuration that is included in the MVPA by reference. That document is the first page of the PDF you get when you click on the "Model S Order Agreement" link under "My Documents" on the My Tesla Dashboard. There is no pictures in this document.
So no Tesla didn't change any legal documents.
I wouldn't assume that everyone will just get what they ordered. Not that long ago Tesla made people change their orders if they had black roofs, green or brown paint on an 85D or a 60D. If you expect the next gen back seat I'd be communicating that to Tesla now.�
Jan 14, 2015
island I received a phone call about my P85D re-order concerning the rear seats a few hours ago. They gave me the option of keeping the next gen rear seats or switching to the older style and keeping the next gen seats for the front only. I wanted a day to think about it before I let them know. Also my order isn't finalized yet.
By the way isn't it a bit hard to see out the rear window with the taller middle headrest on the next gen rears? Hopefully someone with a P85D with the new seats can post a picture so everyone can see how the view looks. Thanks!�
Jan 14, 2015
yobigd20 I thought someone above posted these photos already (or perhaps in another thread). Also didn't someone post the "new-old style" seats which showed taller headrests even on this old version? Aka they revamped the old style to have taller headrest too so it doesn't matter if you choose old vs new you'll have taller headrests on both?�
Jan 14, 2015
island After reading some of the posts about the stitching being different I just let my DS know to put me down for full next gen. Don't want a mismatched car when it comes time to resell.�
Jan 14, 2015
3s-a-charm Hmmm.. no I didn't but will look into that.
- - - Updated - - -
According to my DS, if you ordered next gen rear seats you can still get them as an option or take the premium. I did ask about exchanging for the executive seats in the rear and offered to pay for them but they are not retrofittable on the Model S.�
Jan 14, 2015
evboost I have the next-gen rear seats and I can say that the taller head rest doesn't bother me in the least. When driving forward it doesn't block so much that can't see what's behind and when backing up I have a camera (that now has parking guidance lines) that does the work for me. As far as the seat folding goes, I posted pics of that on the P85D Order Tracking thread back on Dec 27th. I do not find any issue with these seats nor have the few passengers that I have had sit in them.�
Jan 14, 2015
gpetti Yours is already built right? Do you know what you are getting yet? Probably not, I think my DS was saying they typically don't know until the car shows up.�
Jan 14, 2015
redox I guess I'm a little confused. For those of us who ordered NG (front & back) and got delivered front NG only with a promise to "fix the back later when back NGs become available", does this promise still hold?
When is this swap going to happen and who do we need to contact? (I was hoping they'd contact me rather than me calling regularly to find out)
-- Greg�
Jan 14, 2015
gpetti FWIW (I think we're all really guessing but we collectively have a few snippets to work from):
You should still be offered the NG rear seats but if you decide to take the previous version seats you will not get any money off. My understanding is that there is a calling campaign in motion that should eventually lead to a phone call from someone. You can obviously call your DS too but I'm not sure if they are empowered to do this or not.�
Jan 14, 2015
Fezzik I had my summer tires in the rear with the seats folded down. They all fit and the seats went down fine with me 6'2" tall able to go back where I needed with extra room. I can see it blocking some view of the rear but for me its at the same points near the rear pillars. The only thing I saw that could be an issue was the middle bolsters were a little squished after having the summer tires in there for 4 days. But they rebounded back after a few hours.�
Jan 15, 2015
Dan_ I too got a phone call from Tesla this morning asking me if I would like to keep the next gen rear seat or not. (Ordered a P85D with next gen seat)
Apparently they are counting how many more next gen rear seats they are going to order for those who have already ordered the next gen seats.
Seems to me that the wise choice is to say yes and keep the next gen rear seat; if I change my mind afterward (before production starts of cause), I don't see any reasons why I can't fall back to the old seats as it is only the next gen rear seats that are going out of production. They can always keep that next gen rear seat that I give up as maintenance spare, or for those who decided to opt for the old seat but change their mind and want the next gen rear seat back.�
Jan 15, 2015
matbl Isn't there a back seat 1.5 as well? Are they moving back to that one or the original one? Or is the 1.5 EU only?
With 1.5 I'm referring to the non-NG back seat but with higher head rests in the rear (side positions only). I've seen pictures of it from a swedish owner.�
Jan 15, 2015
3s-a-charm Yes, it's built and my DS indicated I would not have next gen seats yet (front or back) however I have also heard that they may not actually know and that is the standard response. Car should be in Vancouver today or tomorrow and I'll ask him to open the door and send me a quick photo or two. I don't like surprises on delivery day - we knew the sex of both of our kids as soon as it was possible!
The problem with ordering a new car is that all the new options keep changing. My previous experience with BMW was somewhat easier as they change once per year. With Tesla, it feels like every 2 weeks you hold-out you could be seeing some significant changes to the vehicle (D announcement, heated wheel, next gen seats, exec seating, etc.). Fortunately the software updates will keep us happy for the most part but man, all these hardware changes are difficult for those of us who want the latest-and-greatest! Maybe time to go on a Forum hiatus for 2-3 years LOL.�
Jan 15, 2015
maddog1762 I already cancelled the first vehicle I ordered back in Sept over the first seat fiasco. The rebuild is preparing for delivery as we speak. If that vehicle does not have next gen back seats, I am done with Tesla......Never owned one, but is really awesome to drive and fun to play with. However, I am not paying a premium price for for poor communication. You think they would have learned something over the first seat fiasco. Unfortunately they either haven't learned their lesson or could care less what customers think.�
Jan 15, 2015
Vitaman "If that vehicle does not have next gen back seats, I am done with Tesla"
I get your frustration.
I have always had bolstered seats and ordered next generation in mine.
It arrived with old style front and back. I was disappointed.
After driving it 3 weeks I still want the new seats, but just having the car to look at and drive is more important.
It's a total blast to drive seats or no seats. Don't throw that baby away.�
Jan 15, 2015
Jaff Well said Vitamin...new seats or old, this car is without peer! ...
�
Jan 15, 2015
McMuggets Cushier seats or normal seats in the back can't stop me from wanting to drive this beast. I don't even have my P85D yet and I fully agree with you. Well said.�
Jan 15, 2015
aznt1217 While it stinks that there are no "performance rear seats," I think a lot of people are crying over spilled milk. Those bolsters in the rear really don't do much and impedes if you have 3 sitting in the back. We all know being the middle guy would suck -- don't even try to refute this. You have to have an extremely slim frame for the middle to actually matter. If anything I'd rather have Tesla install "Oh S*it" bars to have people get ready for the D acceleration.
Also in terms of cost $3500 is still a good deal for the front seats you get. I'm not entirely sure what everybody's background is with cars but Recaros (confirmed when people looked at the mfg. stickers) are expensive. we're talking ~2000 a seat expensive for buckets that are cloth only.�
Jan 15, 2015
Conger I upgraded to a D from an early p85+. I did luck out and get delivery of Next Gen seats front and back. I sit in the front always --- usually in the drivers seat. I like the front seats enough that I would have paid the upgrade cost for just the front seats, I believe they are that big an improvement. It does leave a bad taste to get less for the same money, but Tesla does change pricing all the time, as long as they offer the option of the back Next Gen seats to everyone who ordered when they were available I don't see an issue. Unfortunately I know first hand how aggravating it is when Tesla removes a previously listed option without a change in price. With my first Tesla the Tech package when I ordered had fog lights which were deemed useless at the time and removed from the package without compensation. Even though I use fog lights less then once a year I was still annoyed, human nature, or at least my nature i guess.
My impressions of the Next Gen back seats:
1) The rear vision which was never great, is more restricted with the Next Gen seats then the old seats in my p85+ due to the higher headrests, but I can't comment on how they compare to the newer performance seats now being placed in cars. For me I always used the backup camera and side mirrors, I have two teenage sons and as they have grown the height of the old headrests was a concern from a safety standpoint. I am happy with the tradeoff given the camera, sensors, and hopefully future auto pilot features. In an ideal world there would be a cutout in the headrests or the middle headrest would be removable as I only have two kids, so the middle seat is usually empty, but overall I am happy with the trade off of headrest safety for visibility.
2) My kids like the comfort of the Next Gen seats better then the old performance seats. With the recent attention I also have spent a few minutes in the back seat which is more time then I spent in 20 months in my P85+, in this short test I like the seats as well. So in my family we all agree that we like the Next Gen seats better from a comfort standpoint.
3) We do fold down the seats frequently, but I must not be very observant. I sold my P85+ several weeks ago without having the cars side by side I probably would not have noticed the difference in the folded position, I think the Next Gen seats have a little more of a bump when folded, but to my eye and for our needs (skis, snowboards) there is no difference.
4) Future wear, I have to think that the bolsters will wear more then a flat seat. The car is probably driven 70% of the time with one or two people. The back seat is used occasionally and the middle seat even less frequently so this isn't a huge issue. Even if it the back middle seat had constant use the comfort, safety, and appearance I would still choose the rear Next Gen seats.
I really like the Next Gen seats both front and rear. I am definitely keeping mine. Are they perfect? No, but overall I am really happy. Will Tesla improve the seats? Almost definitely, this being Tesla they are always tweaking stuff and changing things on a weekly basis. When will they make the change? Everyone knows the answer to that --- Soon. Of course we all know how Tesla defines "soon". Is it worth delaying a purchase to wait for the new and improved new seats? Not for me, but everyone has different priorities, I think the only thing the could sway my opinion of the rear Next Gen seats would be if I was still dealing with baby seats. I remember how much of a pain those could be and if the bolsters made compatibility difficult then maybe I would opt for the performance rear seat.�
Jan 15, 2015
darthy001 Had a long talk with a very nice girl from Tesla Norway today about this, and it got me quite convinced that we arent being told the real deal here.
She had obviously been prepped with a long story here loosely translated from my memory:
Reasons for questioning the info provided:
1. Where are all the customers that are complaining? Normally we see them here on the forum.
2. Why no info?
3. From pictures the folding difference is minimal at best so sound like a stretch.
But mainly the explanation was so rehearsed that they have obviously had sessions prepping for this. Gut-feeling is that there is something going on behind the scenes that she had no info on at all. She even commented that this was all new to them as well so they were scrambling to gather information.
Bottom line I got confirmation that my car had finished production before the cut-off date, but she needed some time to confirm 100% that the car had nextgen backseats. So most likely good news for me personally.
No one will be getting those seats on non-produced cars according to her. So I suggest those not happy about that to contact Tesla asap so that they are aware of the obvious demand for those seats.
edit: @conger your post just confirms my belief that something fishy is going on here. I've seen several owners praising the new rear seats, but noone complaining...�
Jan 15, 2015
MarcG Wonderful review! Thank you so much for the feedback, this is exactly what I've been waiting for since the beginning of this thread.�
Jan 15, 2015
hhh What a mess.
Who the hell would want mismatched seats in a $100k+ car.
Oh yeah, the seats could not fold flat, we forgot about that, so now you get a half-rolled-back product with differently styled seats and you still have to pay full price! Awesome, right?�
Jan 15, 2015
andrewket Same here. Thanks. There are two pieces of data I'd like:
1/ Feedback from someone with NG rears who has kids of booster seat age. Car seats will clearly be a problem. Boosters may be ok, at least booster seats with narrow bases.
2/ What the real story is from Tesla. If it's a safety issue or something similar then tell me. Don't allow me make a poor choice.
3/ Ok, I lied- 3 things. If Tesla is going to build yet another new version rear seat without bolsters that matches the front NG seats, tell me. I might decide to wait and accept that seat.�
Jan 15, 2015
mdevp I have to agree, this will not be good for Tesla's image if they continue with this premise.�
Jan 15, 2015
maddog1762 My DS says everyone who ordered next gen seats before yesterday 1-14-2015 will get next gen back seats...... Cool beans!�
Jan 15, 2015
fviken This is very disturbing if correct. There are lots of people that ordered the NG front and back seats, and if Tesla cannot deliver this then I would be very disappointed. The NG back seats are important for me and was promised to the kids.�
Jan 15, 2015
gpetti Well, it isn't normally this bad (hardware changes). Over the years there have been a few visible ones that I'm aware of (and can recall): folding mirrors, Parking Sensors, Autopilot features. Each one potentially causes a stir but typically affects a relatively small group. I think what is unique now is that we had the first major model change to the P85D and many of us dropped serious coin to upgrade into the latest and greatest technology version. For some reason they released a new feature about 2 weeks after this new model release and made it selective (presumably parts shortages?). Then thanks to the weirdness around the P85D "black hole", cars seemed go into the queue in order, get scrambled around and come out in random order. Whereas in the past the trade-off against missing new technology was getting the car earlier, in the December situation we were able to get a car later than other owners who had and additional feature. The seat fiasco then adds a variety of new build permutations and concerns along with the release of another seat variation, a price lowering (good for those who get it but not for those who didn't and also didn't get their cars until this month).... Crazy. You make a good point about the forum. It is a bit like pandoras box - sometimes better not to know what is going on. On balance I'm glad to have had this support group but it will be good to get back to driving (soon hopefully) and sharing driving experiences (almost always good) rather than unpleasant purchase and delivery experiences.�
Jan 15, 2015
darthy001 That is not what they told me. The woman I spoke to clearly said "in production before date X will get the seats".
This is indeed what she told me. She was very clear on this date-issue and only reffered to priduction date. No reference to ordering date.�
Jan 15, 2015
Jamesteruk I had the call earlier as well. I took it that if I want NG rear seats, that is fine. Just about giving me the option of changing to normal rear, keeping NG front, or changing to normal front and rear.
She was still recommending NG rear seats, comfier in the back, but I can't transport as much crap from Ikea in it. Fine, guess we use the wife's car for that!�
Jan 15, 2015
fviken Thank you for the info, Jamesteruk. What is your VIN? Begun production yet?�
Jan 15, 2015
yobigd20 I can't see how a 1cm difference in height would translate to "can't transport as much crap". Ok maybe if you were transported cardboard boxes folded flat you might only fit 199 instead of 200. Seriously though the height different is negligible at best. Nobody that has them is even noticing it until someone points it out. That being said, us early owners know that even the Old Gen seats don't fold flat either but I don't see anyone complaining about that. In fact, I've seen 0 complaints regarding the folding flat for both the new and old gen combined (and I troll these forums a lot). That fact combined with the "rehearsed response" from Tesla that someone got above sort of confirms Tesla's BS and they aren't telling us the real reason. Not cool Tesla, not cool.�
Jan 15, 2015
REBroker I don't believe the only issue here is whether we get the seats or not. The real problem is ongoing shadiness and miscommunication from Tesla that leaves a sour taste regardless. I want a full blown written explanation of what's going on so that I can make the best decision. I don't feel the flatness is the only problem and not being told is frustrating! This is a $130k purchase for God's sake, show us some respect. This is just way too much already, it's not just one thing, but one thing, after another, after another.�
Jan 15, 2015
Jamesteruk She kept saying they fold at an "acute" angle. I guess a seat that is not folding to an acute angle isn't really folding at all. I suspect it is either a minimal difference, as shown by the earlier screenshots, which makes no difference; OR there is something else afoot.
@fviken - RN5492076 I guess. P85D, blue, tech, ng seats. Not gone for 21" wheels or air suspension or pano.�
Jan 15, 2015
tc4542 As I said in the other thread, no doubt they're changing manufactures mid stream. It has nothing to do with complaints on not folding properly. Nobody even has the rear seats but just a few. And the ones that do I really don't hear complaining. I think the assessment in the other "Recaro" thread is dead on. They got into it with them and now they're bailing, probably to Futura.
Andrew:
FYI, you can use the the Porsche car seat (made by Britax) for the rear NG seats if need be. That's what I do for my Ruf with sport buckets and did with my old '11 TTS Cab. They're made to fit. Here is a link:
Child Seats: Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories</title>
<base href="https://www.suncoastparts.com/mm5/">
<title>Suncoast Porsche Parts & Porsche Accessories - Cayenne Accessories & Tequipment, Cayman, Boxster, Panamera, Carrera 997�
Jan 15, 2015
rns-e Just had THE CALL - Nice girl told me the tear shedding story about the backseats not folding as much and offering me to opt for the standard backseat. I chose to stay with my first choice and keep the nextgen backseats, which was no problem as they only wanted to give me the chance to change. I asked when the car was going into production and she told me that they are calling the ones whos car is about to go into production.
I think we all can agree that it has nothing to do with the folding and that this is just a textbook example on how not to communicate with your customers. If they keep this up, it will be a case on communication in some business management class in the future�
Jan 15, 2015
REBroker
+1
I'm quite disappointed that the don't seem to be learning.�
Jan 15, 2015
Hookmaker ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!! 130K - That should leave room for SWIFT and EXEMPLARY communication!�
Jan 15, 2015
rns-e In this video the middle guy looks like he is having fun and it is the nextgen backseats :biggrin:
�
Jan 15, 2015
matbl Noone?
Link:
Garaget | Tesla Model S P85 (2014)�
Jan 15, 2015
NorCalSJ I sent my Delivery Experience Specialist the below email this morning and he answered in 45 minutes.
My Email:
I read on the Tesla Forum of possible changes to the rear Next Generation Seats.
It was my understanding when I made the upgrade, I would be receiving front and rear new Generation Seats. I would not be happy receiving the standard rear seat that have a mismatched appearance and different stitching patterns.
Please confirm I will receive my vehicle with front and rear new Generation Seats.
His reply:
Thanks for reaching out. I can confirm that you will be given the option to receive the rear next-generation seats. You will receive a phone call from our inside sales team in the next week to confirm your choice. The reasoning behind discontinuing the rear seats was due to the fact that the rear headrests were too large and prevented the seats from folding flat, and they tend to block the rear window.
All the best,�
Jan 15, 2015
rns-e It does not like a issue with the headrest preventing the flat folding, nor the side support, as the top corner of the back touches the outer corner of the seat. The should just make the seat fold up so the back can lay flat, but then the headrest is a problem�
Jan 15, 2015
Andyw2100 It really sounds like this may be a temporary situation while they go back to the drawing board, so to speak, and slightly redesign the rear Next Generation Seats. I expect before too long they'll once again be offering a "new and improved" rear Next Generation seat. The question is how long that will take, and if that will be the version those of us now due seats will get.�
Jan 15, 2015
NielsChr I haven't sat in the NG backseats yet. but I did try a demo here in europe wich had the new Classic rear seats.
The new Classic rear seats have higher headrest compared to the old Classic/performance seats, I asume same hight as the NG rear seats.
So headrest hight are the same regardless of you choise of rear seats (NG or new Classic rear seats) - Unless Tesla have changed that and gone back to old style Classic backseats (it might be a difrent storry for US as the higher headrest was added to get a higher rating in EU NCAP crashtest.)
if only they could make the center headrest smaller/same size as the old classic - it would help a lot.�
Jan 15, 2015
yobigd20 Tesla is contradicting themselves.
First, there's no issues with the seats not folding all the way. They fold the same as the old gen. The difference is negligible. We can even see that in the pictures here.
I call ********.
Second, while their excuse of the headrest being to high is VALID , the new v1.5 non-nextgen style headrests now have the same height (if not even higher) than the next gen. Thus choosing old style now will have the same damn issue.
So their second point is also moot and I call ******** squared.
Tesla REALLY screwed the pooch in this one. How hard is it really just to tell the truth, really. They're not fooling anyone here.�
Jan 15, 2015
Andyw2100 Actually, assuming you are correct, they are probably fooling lots of people. They may not be fooling very many of us well-informed crazies who live and breathe the TMC forums, but how about the casual Model S purchaser, who doesn't even understand which stall to use at a supercharger? My guess is that the calls being made fool those people pretty easily.�
Jan 15, 2015
gpetti I was told by my DS that the [FONT=&]next gen seats have about a 30� slope when folded. This seems more than the pictures show but I guess its possible.
My car has already started building so I haven't received the call. Apparently my car is still "in paint" so I think the next step is assembly? I'm not sure what if anything to read into the lack of a phone call when they could potentially still choose which seats to install.
[/FONT]�
Jan 15, 2015
yobigd20 30 degrees is significant. The photos we've seen are nowhere near that. 10, MAYBE, If that. Probably less. Sounds like another warped exaggeration or BS line. Besides, once again, a 30 degree slope would NEVER have passed any legitimate design review anyway. Nobody at Tesla is that stupid to approve 30 degrees and allow it through to full production. I'm sure the next gen seats needed sign off too, probably as high as Elon himself. He or anyone that high just wouldn't approve that. Keep digging! lol�
Jan 15, 2015
mastaace My P85D has next gen seats, front and back. The difference in visibility is really not a big deal for me and to be honest, I have not even noticed it. The rear next gen seats are comfortable. The front next gen seats are awesome and very supportive, there is no sliding in the seat. I have folded down the rear seats and they seem fine, I hardly notice they don't fold perfectly flat. I am not sure what the big deal is about them not folding perfectly flat, and I have yet to see a customer complain about this on the forum.
For all of you thinking about cancelling due to the return of the seat fiasco, I urge you to reconsider. This is, by far, the most amazing car I have ever driven or owned. I don't think I can own another car after driving this one. I get it, we missed out of certain features based on poor communication and the roll out of the P85D was not one of Tesla's shining moments. I live in freezing Wisconsin, and I missed out on the heated steering wheel...but I have not even thought about it since delivery while driving this beast (except when I read the forums). With preheating the car, the steering wheel temperature is not even an issue. I drive 140 miles per day in the freezing cold (uphill both ways, LOL) and certainly see less than promised range even for these conditions, but I wake up every morning looking forward to drive this car. This is the first time I am grateful for having a long commute. Sorry for going off on this tangent, but I urge you not to miss the forest for the frozen trees.�
Jan 15, 2015
AndreS
I dont really see why car seats will be a big issue?�
Jan 16, 2015
mindsweeper Could this be the way Tesla is planning to get rid of all the 1 gen back seats that they have put into already delivered P85D's for the US market? When they start retrofitting those cars to next gen as promised, what would they do with all the 1 gen seats they take out? Scrap them? I don't think so...
So it could have nothing to do about folding or headrests, but simply a way to keep the cost of the retrofit down to a minimum since they had to start shipping the cars before next gen was ready.�
Jan 16, 2015
andrewket The base of many car seats are wider than the space provided between the bolsters. If you have two in the back, each side borrows a little space from the center seat.�
Jan 16, 2015
David_Cary So I ordered but did not finalize yet. I emailed my DS and he states that I can have the rear next gen seats. This was a very pleasant surprise.
I think this communication thing is pretty important. While obviously, most Model S purchasers are not as crazy as we are, I suspect a fairly large percentage look at forums before they purchase even if they never even register. Now that percentage might still only be 30% even for Tesla, but not an insignificant number.�
Jan 16, 2015
grahamsimmonds UK reservation of a P85D due for delivery in June. Got "the call". Very short. The guy asked if I wanted to change my order from Next Gen Rear seats to standard. I said no I would like to stick with the Next Gen rears. Thank you he said. Apparently nobody in the UK has changed their order and all want the Next Gen seats.
So what on earth is all the fuss about? It strikes me that Tesla are in the midst of an enormous communication exercise to reassure everyone with existing orders that they will get what they ordered and they are to be commended for that. To claim that Tesla don't communicate with their customers could not be further from the truth. They just don't get involved with forums.
I suspect that this is nothing more than one or two early P85D deliveries where the customer has thrown their toys out the pram because the seats did fold down completely flat. I have a had a succession of Audi cars, all of which have had bolstered back seats and guess what? None of them lie flat either! Has it ever been a problem? No!
I love these forums and they help pass the time waiting for my car. However, I do think that when a thread turns into a train wreck like this one has, my advice to those who are getting themselves into a tizz would be to switch off their computers and go and talk to their wives/children instead. As long as you do not go on about Teslas, I am sure they would enjoy the attention. Then when you log on again you will find that whatever issue was upsetting you has been resolved and you will be able to move on.�
Jan 16, 2015
darthy001 Have you not read the posts where Tesla is telling numerous other people the absolute opposite of what you have been told here? Or even worse giving no info whatsoever other than changing the design studio and mytesla-pages?
Personally I was clearly informed, by Tesla, yesterday that all cars after a certain production date would _not_ get the new seats. Other people are getting proactive phone-calls with a choice.
If this is your idea of commendable communication I don't want to see your definition of bad communication practices....
Edit: the woman I spoke to yesterday was even so uncertain that she couldn't answer on the phone if I would get next gen seats or not in the back... So its absurd to commend Tesla on the comms here.
Edit nr2: about the above edit that is for a car that she at the same time said had finished production _before_ the given cut-off date. Even then she had no info on next gen or not.�
Jan 16, 2015
LostJackal42 Just got a phone call from Tesla regarding my UK P85D order (June delivery) the lady basically said "We just want to check that you're aware the Next Gen rear seats don't fold down as flat as the normal seats, are you ok with that?" I said yes and she confirmed I would be getting the Next Gen rear seats (as ordered).
I asked about any other future options but she just listed the current available options and said that was all she knew about (I presumed as much but worth asking).
My ideal would be next gen rear set of seats with a smaller middle chair head rest, for increased rear view.�
Jan 16, 2015
yobigd20 I like their wording change. It seems they were careful not to say they've been discontinued. I would've pressed them for more info. Has anyone asked if they are being redesigned or if they are switching manufacturers or if the discontinued seats are permanent forever?
Also, has anyone asked if the new executive seats fold down at all? And if they do, what is the angle that they fold?�
Jan 16, 2015
Forty Creek Mine would be that the rear headrests simply fold back when not in use. My wife's CRV has this feature.�
Jan 16, 2015
Danal I also got a proactive communication from Tesla.
In my case, an email. I called the person's number listed in that mail and got voice mail. I did NOT leave a message... and he still called me back a few minutes later, solely based on Caller ID. That's pretty proactive.
He explained that I had a pending order for NG seats, that I would receive them front and back, and that some people did not like the visibility and/or folding in the back, and that I could therefore chose NG front only and enhanced Napa Leather in the back. I told him I'd seen photos of all of this on TMC forum. I asked for overnight to think about it, and he was fine.
I talked to my wife and called him back a few minutes later. We chose NG in front, and regular back. The Tesla person was very interested in why we made this choice. I told him that, for us, this choice is driven EXCLUSIVELY by lack of visibility out the rear view mirror with the NG 'center' back seat. The photos on TMC convinced us that the folding issue was really a non-issue.
We did not discuss price. It simply did not come up.
I will say here (and I'd really never say this to Tesla, although I realize they might read this forum): In my personal opinion, the car is EXTREMELY OVERPRICED. In other words, I realize I'm paying a huge margin to obtain this unique vehicle. Therefore, I'm not going to get wrapped up in whether or not a given option costs a given amount... the total price to get the vehicle, and get it configured the way I want, is what it is. I've gritted my teeth and decided to pay it... so a small change up or down is just not on my radar. I'm getting what I want, and paying the price with open eyes.
�
Jan 16, 2015
grahamsimmonds darthy001 - it looks like you rang up someone and got the wrong answer. I read your post, compared it to the response everyone else had received and decided whoever you spoke to was misinformed. If I was you, I would ring them back and ask them to check on your particular circumstances.
Had you waited for "the call" like I did, you would have got the same answer as the rest of us. In my view, your complaint is the result of a mistake by one person within Tesla to give the correct answer, not the entire company's failure to communicate.
I am pleased with my interactions with Tesla so far and I did not get forgotten in this latest phone round robin so I am happy. And therefore I would commend Tesla to anyone that asks me for an opinion on their communication skills.�
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