Dec 18, 2014
LaTache My DS has gone radio silent since Production Complete, is there a Chicago issue? Hmm, going onto day three with no word on expected delivery of any kind.....�
Dec 18, 2014
EarlyAdopter When I took delivery of my P85 ages ago, I remember having the delivery specialist write out my due bill items - - floor mats and rear spoiler, both in short supply at the time - on that form before I signed at delivery.
It was no big deal and they came through with them later. In fact, I haven't heard of any cases where they didn't.�
Dec 18, 2014
gpetti Hilarious, this morning I was singing that song to myself and then realized why (before I read your post). I kind of wish I had left my car on my dashboard in order to see if I would have won the prize for longest "black holer" (terrible term). On the other hand I wanted to get the hell back in the queue so I have a chance of getting a car next quarter! @sandpiper, my VIN was 63011, one before yours. A couple of the earlier ones - not that the VIN numbers seem to mean much.
I'm sucking down my jealousy and rooting for you remaining guys!
If I had to rename this - it seems less like a black hole and more like some kind of wrinkle in the space time continuum. These cars seemed to take on their own timeline like slow motion independent of any normal timelines or build processes.
Besides communication, if I had to pick another area of annoyance, it would be consistency. The differences between DS personnel and regions, the differences in early cars and later cars, the difference in policy - people with time concerns that ordered early and may not get their cars in time, people who ordered late and got their cars early, Some DSs seem to be kept in the dark, others seem able to move mountains. Some DSs seemed to get information from the factory others were stuck looking at computer screens that didn't move. I feel sorry for Jerome as a VP that is handling end customer complaints but it seems to suggest a lack of empowerment with DSs and Ownership. Jerome seems to be able to get information where some of the DSs can't. I imagine (and hope) that there will be some retrospective discussions when this quarter is complete - some real improvement opportunities.�
Dec 18, 2014
jgsuperstar29 I couldn't agree more with this. Form my experience with both the cars I've ordered, the entire Tesla experience prior to delivery has been dreadful. But because the product is so amazing, once people take delivery they probably just forgive (and somewhat forget) about their poor experiences prior to getting the car. I know I kind of did. And I think they're counting on that. Since Tesla can't meet demand as is, they're likely investing more time, money and resources in making more cars faster, rather than spending any resources on improving their training programs for their DS/OAs. It's obvious there's just no consistency anywhere in the purchasing/pre-delivery experience. They either hired people who are just plain bad at their jobs, or they did a very lousy job training them. I would guess it's more the latter. They need to get everyone some sort of script for commonly asked questions (and scripted answers for anticipated questions when issues arrives like this black hole debacle), get everyone on the same page, and just improve their communication processes overall.
Now that my production is complete, I'm still pretty stoked, but my enthusiasm has certainly been dampened somewhat by this experience. Especially since i'm only getting NG seats in front (minor annoyance I guess) and I'm likely not getting a heated steering wheel which some other folks already have (silly gripe in the Bay Area I know, but shouldn't I have the latest and greatest version of the car upon taking delivery? Just doesn't seem right that I will miss out on that feature after waiting 26 days for the thing to be built).�
Dec 19, 2014
breser In my experience it's neither. They simply haven't hired enough people. If you pay attention the people that have poor experiences with delivery are people in areas where there are a lot of vehicles delivered. I never see people complaining about the lack of returned calls or emails in regions that sell very few cars. You will sometimes see people saying they're getting great experiences in areas that have a lot of cars but it's always during the off-time of the quarter. I saw this literally myself with the trade I just did. Very responsive to me in November, then December hit and emails go unanswered.
The problem Tesla has right now is the clustering of deliveries to regions. They have a short period of time with a lot of deliveries (basically 1 month of the quarter) then the rest of the quarter it's fairly quiet. If they hire more people then they have people twiddling their thumbs for 2 months. I don't really see this changing until Tesla is no longer production limited and is instead demand limited. Once they're demand limited they'll be building cars as they get orders instead of trying to batch them. But I suspect that's at least a few years away.
Given that they are production limited, even if they lose some sales due to this sort of situation, it doesn't really impact their actual sales numbers because that's purely based on production.
The caveat I'll give to the above is that the P85D delays probably stressed a lot of delivery employees in areas that typically have fewer cars. Lots of people calling wondering why their car is still not moving.�
Dec 19, 2014
sundoc This time frame is only an estimate and is subject to change based on current production schedules and option availability. Please expect that this timing will shift to provide the most accurate estimate possible. Your delivery appointment will be confirmed by your Delivery Experience Specialist once your vehicle is fully assembled and en route to the nearest Tesla location for final inspection and preparation.
So yeah. There we have it.
After being the first Torontonian on our spreadsheet to go into production and currently at 26 days in production and counting, I get the above message this am (came up between 1am-7am).
I'll admit I am disappointed but hopefully it'll be here in the first few days of Jan.�
Dec 19, 2014
darthy001 Seems like this text is out there for everyone waiting for a car. I got it today as well, and my delivery is expected in late february.
Actually seems like Tesla is taking the feedback and clarifying that the info on mytesla here is not 100% accurate.�
Dec 19, 2014
NOLA_Mike The same message showed up on my Dashboard last night too.
Then this morning I got an email from my DS saying my P85D was now on its way to Houston (I assume on a truck but she wasn't that specific). I am now scheduled to take delivery 12/24.
So, I don't think the message means that you will not get your car before the end of the year - it's just a CYA in case some don't make it before the end of the year.
Mike�
Dec 19, 2014
sandpiper 22 days in production! Another 8 days, and it will be 30 days in the hole. Just like the old country song!�
Dec 19, 2014
Vitaman breser has it nailed down.
My DS was the model of consistency getting back to me within 12-24 hours either by phone or email until 2 days ago.
She had been complaining that she needed help and then was elated when they let her hire 2 assistants.
However, now that I really need her to tell me where my car is, and when they will finalize my trade in number to allow my loan to go through.....she is MIA.
I can reach her assistants, both very nice but clueless as one would expect from folks who have been on the job for one week.
Have tried to contact the Delivery team in Freemont to no avail. It one of those things that can be easily resolved ......but super annoying in the meantime.�
Dec 19, 2014
NOLA_Mike I'm imagining the current logistics nightmare is now that all these black hole cars are being completed along with the steady stream coming off the assembly line and they can't get enough shipping options to keep up now.
Mike�
Dec 19, 2014
randompersonx I've had a pretty terrible experience with DS from when I first started hearing from him when production started.
My DS told me that he does all deliveries for both West Palm Beach and Dania Beach. That means Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Palm Beach as well as nearby regions like the keys are all his responsibility. I've heard that this is one of the top 5 markets in the USA now, and it's stunning that they can't have at least one DS per service center.
He he is clearly overworked.�
Dec 19, 2014
sundoc Yeah it may be just a generic change on the website. We'll see how it goes.
As for the DS, I couldn't agree with you guys any more! I know the Toronto guy is just OVERLOADED at the moment. Combined with all the factory chaos, his job has become super complicated.�
Dec 19, 2014
wazooda So, on the website, my P85D shows "Order Confirmed - Your Model S has entered the production queue at our Factory in Fremont, California."
I confirmed my order back on October 25th.
What is the next "level" I should see on this screen? Is it "In Production"?
Thanks!�
Dec 19, 2014
gpetti Hi,
When I talk about consistency I mean from one DS to another. I agree that they are hugely overworked and that is a big part of why some areas respond better than others;however, I noticed that some DS seemed to have more power than others - maybe contacts, maybe more savvy. There are some stories of DSs having someone in the factory find a car and report back. If you look at the varying stories coming back from DSs there wasn't any one consistent story. I guess I hinted at another problem in my earlier post and that is empowerment. I get the impression that most of the DSs are kept in the dark, possibly to avoid them giving away too much information. Maybe that strategy is OK in normal operations but in this scenario it created more trouble than it solved (IMHO). When my car went back into production, I naturally was concerned and phoned my DS who had a chuckle because it was ridiculous that my car would have gone back into production. He looked at two systems that showed "factory gate routing" and basically that my car was about to be loaded on a truck - thus he reassured me that all was well. It wasn't until about a day later that his boss called him and let him know that there was a problem with a bunch of cars. He never did get any information specific to my car.�
Dec 19, 2014
skilly Why dont you contact Finance directly - they will help you with the loan part and also loop in the DS as well to tie out the other loose ends. With that at least you arent single threaded in your abilities to understand whats up�
Dec 19, 2014
zzzzdoc Well, today's update:
Spoke to Tesla corporate. They agree that the paperwork is incorrect regarding the seats. They want it handwritten at the time of delivery. Not thrilled about that, considering I need to sign the paperwork in advance for my credit union, but I have to take them at their word that this will be fixed at delivery (which I think it obviously will.) Just a dumb thing for them to do PR-wise. Let's piss off the customer by making him jump through these hoops, then have him sign paperwork saying that he is being charged for what he isn't getting, then crossing it out and fixing it. Really???
Now, that nonsense aside, I was told by my DS this morning when I called him, that my car, "and many other cars for the Southeast US", (his quote) are sitting in limbo in the factory, and have not been shipped. So my new delayed delivery appointment is in great jeopardy, as is my auto loan as EFCU needs the paperwork done before Dec 23rd at the VERY latest, and it is totally unclear if I'll know by then if I am getting the car in 2014.
So, the decaying orbit around Black Hole Part Deux continues...�
Dec 19, 2014
Andyw2100 Yes.
If you scroll through the tracking thread, you'll see screenshots that include the exact wording.�
Dec 19, 2014
AlMc Mike, I think you are spot on. This is not a complaint and my car will be delivered on time I am sure. However, it has been done and waiting for a transport for 3 days. Just confirming your suspicion.�
Dec 19, 2014
jgsuperstar29 I would agree this is certainly part of the problem as well. I probably should have worded my little rant better but I think what I said (regarding training/everyone having a consistent script) and not having enough bodies is not mutually exclusive. Lack of enough folks doesn't totally explain the lack of consistency in overall communication between each DS and their respective customers. (gpetti does a good job explaining this above so I won't rehash that).�
Dec 19, 2014
EastCoastP85D I'm with you here. I spoke to my DS late last night, with my car STILL IN PRODUCTION. He confirms that its in Quality Assurance because of the seats and will most likely be delivered without the NG Seats, and as of yet he cannot speculate on when the Car will be prepped for Delivery.
I'm hoping it gets on the same truck with other Boston based cars (I've seen a few go Complete in the past couple days) but I'm not holding my breath.�
Dec 19, 2014
sandpiper It must be next to mine. I'm sure they're waiting for some more cows to die of natural causes before they can produce more leather for the new seats.�
Dec 19, 2014
gpetti So today I started listening to a random Slacker playlist (station) - sadly not in a Tesla as I don't have one anymore, or yet :-( - and out of the blue, second song in, it starts playing this song. I think they're mocking me.�
Dec 19, 2014
breser I think this is just the nature of a small company. Some people have been around longer and know how to get information. Some people are new and tell you what is presented to them. Consistency is going to come when they fill in more middle management that ends up spending time on these sorts of things. Right now the impression I have is the middle management they have spends their times putting out fires. More than likely consistency will mean less information for everyone, not more.
The new disclaimer on the delivery timeframe is a sign that Tesla realizes they haven't been setting customer expectations correctly. I know from what happened around September that they learned some of it then. I'm sure the P85D has reinforced those lessons. But I totally agree that as a whole good communication is Tesla's weakness. I'm not letting them off the hook, they really should fix this.�
Dec 19, 2014
ArtInCT Hi Guys:
In an effort to make your wait perhaps a bit easier regardless of where you are in the queue... I suggest a tune... One of my long time favs....
Press your voice command... and say... "Play Moody Blues I Know You're Out There Somewhere" Slaker will bring up
an apropos tune that will be both toe tapping and bring a smile to your faces.
Enjoy... we are all rooting for you...�
Dec 19, 2014
Badger1982 I got a note last night from DS saying "looks like the car will be getting here on the 23rd". I'm trying to confirm I can pick it up on the 24th but haven't been able to do that yet.�
Dec 19, 2014
kabirakhtar hey guys - not a P85D owner, but i've got a 60 on order. been following this thread, sorry to see the black hole has swallowed up so many people.
my car was supposed to go into production this week, according to my DS. they told me so last week, and again early this week. it's now Friday, and DS says it's still in the queue, due to the black hole (sadly DS didn't use that term). so it seems there are many cars originally slated for mid-December production that are stuck BEHIND the black hole.
maybe there's another term for the rest of us... stuck in the singularity.�
Dec 19, 2014
wk057 So my DS is teasing me! (At my request...)
My car just arrived in Devon, PA. Delivery set for Monday morning.
Looks like there are a few others that arrived too...�
Dec 19, 2014
AlMc This is a great picture of the Devon SC for people who have never seen it. It will have the capacity to deliver and service MANY cars ( read: Model 3). The West Coast has several large facilities but this is one of (if not the) biggest ones on the east coast and, I believe, the prototype for others in the future. Take over old ICE dealerships!�
Dec 19, 2014
gpetti Never mind middle management putting out fires, apparently upper management have to do it. I've noted many other comments about consistency in the delivery thread too. Maybe consistency wouldn't be an issue if we weren't all communicating with one and other but that is the world we live in now. In any event, if it wasn't for TMC I wouldn't have even got the bulk email from Jerome and I would be even less happy.�
Dec 19, 2014
sundoc Well after 27 days in production I'm finally out! Production complete today!!
Lets see how long it takes to get here... My DS says there is a LARGE contingent of cars coming right after the 25th/26th... so I might actually squeeze in before the new year. To be honest, I'm just glad there is some kind of confirmation that its been completed.
(posted this same thing on the P85D tracking thread)�
Dec 20, 2014
sandpiper No such luck here. 23 days and counting.�
Dec 20, 2014
3s-a-charm Maybe Tesla will honor the black hole production cars with a metal plate bolted to the dash saying "Handbuilt by Tesla" on it ;-)�
Dec 20, 2014
osama My cars are crossing the border today and should be in Toronto tomorrow. I have no idea what kind of seats are in them. I guess I will find out when they get here on Sunday. They will prep them on Monday and delivery should be possible on Tuesday 12/23. I believe I am getting the first 2 deliveries in Toronto.�
Dec 20, 2014
stevezzzz When a small company attempts to grow into a larger company and puts stretch goals in place for an overworked staff, a new product rollout like this becomes an endless game of Whac-a-Mole.�
Dec 20, 2014
Rossh So my car was put on a truck yesterday and will be up in Seattle late Sunday afternoon. Too late for me to take it for a spin before I head out for my Xmas break, but they will hand it off to the detailer to get it wrapped while I am out and it should be good to go when I return on 12/29! Just in time for me to take it up to Whistler for some New Year's skiing. Best of luck to all the remaining BHers!�
Dec 20, 2014
EarlyAdopter My Saturday delivery got pushed back to Monday as the truck my car was loaded on Thursday didn't leave for Seattle until Friday afternoon. <sigh> More waiting...
Rossh, sounds like our cars are on the same truck. Where are you having yours wrapped? Front end or full?�
Dec 20, 2014
Terapin Awesome! When did your cars finish production?�
Dec 20, 2014
Jgdixon I told you it would work out in the long run. Congrats!�
Dec 20, 2014
cwood Aaaaaaand Production Complete. Apparently physicists are wrong and some things can escape from a black hole. :smile:
Now begins the Journey to Delivery.�
Dec 20, 2014
Hmbldr1 Thank you for this. Great idea! Can you post heroines email ?�
Dec 20, 2014
zzzzdoc Just checked with DS. Car still sitting at Tesla, not on transporter.
So now 5 days just sitting there at the Factory after taking 21 days to have it's production completed, while lots and lots of other cars get shipped who were completed after mine. Including others to my same SC.
26 total days stuck in the black hole.
Getting ready to cancel order. Monday, or Tuesday at the latest will have to be my deadline, due to the constraints of the holidays, scheduling, and the credit union. Then the car will sit at Tesla, I assume will go out as a test drive car, and they'll take a loss of about $10K or more when they sell it as a previously used loaner car. Heck of a way to run a business.�
Dec 20, 2014
gpetti Very well and graphically put! The other point you mention that resonates for me is the growth from small company to a larger company. Breser mentioned small company problems which do apply here but also when a company grows quickly it can be difficult to maintain existing levels of service consistently as the number of staff grows. Smaller companies can operate more organically and service can be enhanced by well chosen and experienced staff. The bigger the company and the more staff you have, the more important training and process become, and the harder it is to maintain consistency even without stretch goals, let alone in the current war zone that is Tesla's December delivery schedule.�
Dec 20, 2014
bonaire But...CNBC tells me they are on the road to 500,000 per year.Logistics are a sticking point for growth of any company.
Keep in mind that this quarter was a hard quarter and the sales are supposed to be in the 11,000 range. But they are already promising staff that they have to reproduce it again four times next year trying to get to 50,000 sales total. Maybe the idea that "this quarter? almost over... get ready to do it all year next year" needs to be smoothed out a bit. For such sales numbers, logistics have to put more cars into Europe and Asia and get around this last minute slam session.�
Dec 20, 2014
sandpiper Could be. I think they put mine into the room with the new hires and they're using it to teach the assembly process. No sign of any movement whatsoever.�
Dec 20, 2014
breser Meta comment: It's really jarring to me to see my username capitalized. I've used this username for a very long time (way back to old systems where usernames were always lower case). So I'm always used to seeing it in lowercase.
For what it's worth I agree that Tesla is in the difficult phase of moving from small to big company.
- - - Updated - - -
Somehow I picture Elon standing over a bunch of assembly guys and inspecting their work and telling them "No no no, that's all wrong, do it again," based on this comment.�
Dec 20, 2014
BMW2D I was in the black hole as well, but it finally finished the end of last week. I got a call, "It'll arrive this weekend for delivery on Monday afternoon see you then."
But then I get a message today from the DS, "Cancel that Monday appt, we'll have to reschedule. I'll call you back on Monday."
The reschedule is no fun, but the lack of of information through this whole process is just crazy.�
Dec 20, 2014
sundoc Congrats!!�
Dec 20, 2014
EarlyAdopter Where are you located?
I had a delivery appointment set for today, but yesterday got a call that it would have to be rescheduled for Monday because the transport truck ended up leaving a day late.�
Dec 20, 2014
zzzzdoc Does anyone know if any of the Florida black hole cars have been shipped? I'm only aware of one.�
Dec 20, 2014
BMW2D I'm in Nevada. So close to the factory that I could probably hitchhike there by morning if I new my car was still there waiting for me.�
Dec 20, 2014
PatT Ahh! that must be 'cause they were waiting to get my silver PD on with yours. Unfortunately mine will be stuck in Seattle unless they can find a trucker trying to get back to Spokane before Christmas.�
Dec 20, 2014
randompersonx Mine shipped to Dania Beach on Thursday.�
Dec 21, 2014
sandpiper Sigh... 24 days in production. Delivery between Christmas and New Years looking increasing unlikely.�
Dec 21, 2014
pdx Not sure if it was timing or my email, but the stars aligned and successfully escaped the black hole! I got a response Wednesday night (12/17), my car was on the truck Thursday afternoon, arrived in Portland Friday, and I took delivery yesterday. I have the next gen seats in the front and current gen in the rear. No heated steering wheel, but I'm hoping for a retrofit sometime in the future.
I posted my initial thoughts here:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/39859-P85D-initial-observations-upgrading-from-a-P85-%28October-2013-build%29�
Dec 21, 2014
sandpiper Well holy smokes. After a long,tough and painful labour my machine has been birthed.�
Dec 21, 2014
sataponw Woo congratz! I am sure we will be on the same truck
�
Dec 21, 2014
sundoc Congrats!
wow, your black hole journey was almost as long as mine! Feels great to be out eh!
I think your, Satapown, Terapin and I will be on the same train/truck.�
Dec 21, 2014
mrElbe I want to be on the same truck too for the company but alas! still in "production".�
Dec 21, 2014
zzzzdoc Well, miracle of miracles, my car, after 6 days sitting in a corner somewhere in Fremont, after 21 days "in production" for the grand total of 27 days, has finally, reportedly been placed on a truck.
Still unclear if we'll make the end of the year, or my delivery window, but at least there's some chance.
Not sure which other Florida cars (if any) are on the same truck. If anyone else from Florida knows that their car was put on a truck today, please chime in.�
Dec 21, 2014
sundoc MrElbe... I know they're making a mad push for us all to get here before Dec.31. So hopefully you'll be on that ride as well!�
Dec 21, 2014
sandpiper I suspect you will be. I think they're trying to push out all the Toronto vehicles in one run. I think they had us all grouped together in the back corner of the lot, and they finally decided that they'd had enough of our whining.�
Dec 21, 2014
Terapin yay! I wonder when the truck will depart?�
Dec 21, 2014
sandpiper Yep... I bet we all run into each other at the service center!�
Dec 21, 2014
gpetti Has anyone suggested that the heated steering wheel will be retrofittable? I was told explicitly that it wasn't.�
Dec 21, 2014
EastCoastP85D 
Finally out of the BH. Now how long til it heads East... the Saga continues.�
Dec 21, 2014
osama My two cars are suppose to arrive today or tomorrow. Happy to share my delivery experience with any of my fellow Toronto Tesla owners. I will post the exact date and time. After that you can all come to my house for a test drive party. We'll see how quickly we can drain both batteries.
Oh ... and you can also test drive this ... it supposed to be delivered tomorrow morning to my house.
�
Dec 21, 2014
pdx No, but they said the same in the past about the + conversion, parking sensors, and folding mirrors. It seems like every time something new comes out the immediate answer to a retrofit is 'no'.�
Dec 21, 2014
sundoc Does it come with next gen seats
I remember you posted a pic of this earlier, friends car right? Looks nice!�
Dec 21, 2014
mrElbe It has the red brake caliper option. Looks like the retracting door handles will have to fitted later.�
Dec 21, 2014
3s-a-charm LOL! @osama thank you for helping me think BIG!�
Dec 21, 2014
osama
Yes ... it has next gen seats and no this is not my friend's car. His is 2 weeks old. This is brand new. Being delivered tomorrow morning.
They do not have a retractable door handle option and sadly it has 225hp less than the P85D. But it makes noise!�
Dec 21, 2014
gpetti Thanks. I guess it depends on whether one is willing to take a chance on that or not. I guess I've picked a more safe bet but being told there was no retrofit was certainly part of my bet. Hopefully I don't have to wait too long to get my "safe bet".�
Dec 21, 2014
Denarius Looks beautiful, a friend of mine kept trying to convince me to buy a GT3 instead of a P85D. Sadly, I don't have the garage space for both. Congratulations on your deliveries, going to be a fun few days at your place! And welcome back. :smile:�
Dec 21, 2014
sundoc Nice!
One silent red beast and another red loud one!!�
Dec 21, 2014
EarlyAdopter
Careful with that. I hear those have a tendency to catch on fire. ;-)�
Dec 21, 2014
gpetti Well it appears I already have my new VIN so fingers crossed I won't have to wait until nearly March. New VIN is 69359 which is way up there.
I haven't looked at the spreadsheet lately but it seems like there might only be a couple of us that bailed on the black hole.�
Dec 21, 2014
LetsGoFast That's the 911 I'm still missing. Virginia is part of Toronto, isn't it?�
Dec 22, 2014
wk057 Got car.
Front next gen, back not. No heated steering wheel.
Car is ridiculous. Out having a blast. More later...�
Dec 22, 2014
saltwater I'm scheduled to pick up my P85D car tomorrow, and my DS said that he is 'unable to tell me' (words chosen carefully?) whether it has the next-gen seats installed. I am not whining, really, but isn't this uncool? I expect he would be unhappy if I were 'unable to tell him' whether I have the funds to pay for the car. I've been patient with all sorts of other things that many of us have had to deal with. I just don't understand why the secrecy about my seats? Similar answer from DS regarding heated steering wheel.�
Dec 22, 2014
wk057 Posted my first impressions: Tracking P85D delivery thread - Page 324�
Dec 22, 2014
BMW2D Well, I think tomorrow morning is my personal deadline for cancellation. In production for 20 days, finally shipped to somewhere. I had an appt today for pickup but received a call over the weekend canceling the appt with no other information or delivery date. I was promised a call this morning, but nothing. Called my DS later in the morning with no response to the message. Then, just got a call from a DS in California (200mi away) doing the initial calls for a delivery like asking about financing and trade-ins.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's not just the wait time. It's the lack of information and the chaos of it all. I think I'll be sticking with the current car for a few more months and then try again in the Spring or Summer.�
Dec 22, 2014
bonaire You also might be able to pickup a good deal in March with P85D loaners and demo units. I think they are good with keeping the deposit for another-choice down the road. Seems to have worked with many people who cancelled already-built cars to get a P85D recently or who wanted 2015 Vin #s.�
Dec 22, 2014
EarlyAdopter Well, my car escaped the black hole, but the next gen seats did not.
I took delivery today and did not win the seat lottery - got old seats front and back.
It looked like it was about 50/50 for next gen seats of the dozen or so cars there prepping for delivery.
Sure was fun seeing the next gen seats in the car getting delivered next to mine. :-/
On to the next waiting list...�
Dec 22, 2014
island Still no car for me yet. Got word it should be in sometime next week but who really knows. The part that really pisses me off is my assigned DS. He doesn't answer voicemails or emails unless I contact upper management - then I always get a fast reply. His latest nonsense was after I brought up the subject of not getting the car as I ordered & paid for. If you pay for something, you should get exactly that in my eyes, especially on a $130k car.
I asked hypothetically since I wasn't going to receive the car the way I ordered (without next gen seats at all which I was perviously told) if I had the option of picking a new seat color when they get the next gen seats back in stock if I wanted - although I was probably going to keep the gray I just wanted to keep my options open. I also brought up that I might not want to accept delivery so I can just wait for them to fix their supply issues, then order again and get it built the right way from the start. Here was his reply.
Side note, I test drove a P85D with full next gen seats at a Tesla store in a "cold state" this weekend while on a personal trip. Saw a sales-person driving by in one and followed them for a mile to the store and took it for a spin. Pretty fun car to launch & then test drive, even in some ice and snow in the parking lot that froze over from a few days before. Took a quick video too but can't post it for the reason below.
The heated steering wheel.
It isn't allowed to be mentioned by anyone at the Tesla store or it could cost them their job. The person I spoke with got nervous when I brought it up while checking in the winter option menu during the test drive. The car didn't have a heated wheel even though it was in a cold weather state. They asked how I knew about it and then mentioned they are not allowed to say anything about it per an email that was sent out. Not posting a city, state, or name so don't ask. That's my update, let the waiting continue!�
Dec 22, 2014
A.G. Just BTW, we can see where you live on the left side next to your name�
Dec 22, 2014
jstepy Hey Fellow Black Holers...
Just wanted to update you that I finally took delivery this last Saturday. No next Gen Seats in back or front, however I got black performance seats which I thought was somewhat of a nice touch.
Odd thing was I had an old version of the 6.0 Software... I didn't have the INSANE mode option and I still had the steering choices etc. They loaded the software on for me after I mentioned it and they told me to start it at home since it could take an hour and a half. I'm glad they allowed me to do it that way cause my car was out of commission for almost 2 hours while it updated.
Only issue so far, and I posted about this on the main page, is that I really can not feel any vibration warnings with the Lane Departure Warning feature... it is turned on under settings. The speed warning system works great.
Also I do feel a lot of just constant road type vibration in the wheel that I did not feel in the past with my P85+... so a little odd.�
Dec 23, 2014
Krugerrand Thanks for possibly causing a hard working person their job. Yes, despite not posting a city, state or name.�
Dec 23, 2014
flyboyzz1 He said he was on a trip. Could have been in any state and city...�
Dec 23, 2014
EarlyAdopter Well that's rather silly. Did you tell them you knew about because people have started to get heated steering wheels and posting photos of the UI??
I don't see how it could cost anyone their job to wonder how someone knew about something that was supposed to be hush-hush but, in fact, was already known publicly. Or, at least known to those of us who peruse these forums religiously.�
Dec 23, 2014
breser Tesla needs to stop with this nonsense of shipping features on new cars and then telling employees not to talk about them because they haven't announced them yet. For a company born in the Internet Age and who's CEO made his fortune off the Internet sometimes they act like they're unaware that their customers talk to each other. You can't keep things like this secret.
They're putting their employees in a terrible position. One they shouldn't have to be in.�
Dec 23, 2014
randompersonx +1
...�
Dec 23, 2014
bluenation i agree.�
Dec 23, 2014
sundoc
Yup. Couldn't have said it any better Breser.
I was actually told something very similar to what Island was told... the staff/employees have been told not to speak on certain features, though its apparent some cars are shipping with them. Same exact thing happened in Sept, when the autopilot first broke.
Ppl were posting images of cars with the cameras and radar and how the delivery team wouldn't/couldn't answer questions about what they were there for.�
Dec 23, 2014
BMW2D Made the call to cancel my black hole order. (First I tried locally, message machine again.) I do have to say, once you reach someone in headquarters they are certainly helpful and understanding. They let me know they'll be calling me back with the logistics on canceling the order. I'll likely order again in the Spring when things get sorted out a bit more. I just have a hard tim investing this amount of money in a car that doesn't have my full confidence. I'll follow with an update in case others are wondering what is possible with a cancellation (i.e., saving the deposit for a later order, etc.)�
Dec 23, 2014
lolachampcar I can not imagine they would not let you roll your deposit over to a later (Spring) delivery.�
Dec 23, 2014
Auzie My guess is that Tesla is doing its best to keep improving its product by adding new features whilst trying to minimize upset to customers who just miss out on these new features.
It must be very difficult to reconcile the complex assembly plant that spits out the mix of cars with new features and cars with no new features, with the communication that keeps all customers happy.
With time, Tesla is likely to learn the optimum granularity of communication that goes out to customers and the optimum timing of such communications.
Perhaps feedback from customers on the least upsetting way to break unlucky customers news � 'sorry your car does not have new feature that other cars are getting� to unlucky customers may speed up that learning.�
Dec 23, 2014
breser As a customer who's S85 missed autopilot by a day. A whole lot of "sorry you just missed it" at the delivery would have gone a long way with me. Instead I got a whole lot of "never heard of that."�
Dec 23, 2014
Auzie Sorry to hear that you missed it, that is from me, I am not connected with Tesla, just an investor.
Agree with you that empathic acknowledgement of misfortune seems to flow better than not saying anything.
Perhaps Tesla may need to develop a generic disclaimer for all customers. The disclaimer would have to be acknowledged prior to ordering.
The disclaimer may state many things, including something to the effect "Tesla is continually upgrading cars with new features. Complexity of our logistic process may result in you not getting some of newly developed features incorporated in your car, whilst some other cars produced at the same time may get the new feature. This allocation is completely random and unintentional. We are sorry if that happens to you" etc etc
My personal experience with delivering bad news is that such news are received with far less anguish if people on the receiving end have understanding of why they got unlucky. It is helpful if their experience of being unlucky can be de personalised by providing appropriate facts and explanations. In this case some explanations of the process complexity, number of cars being affected (not sure about that, maybe), the flow of cars through the pipeline, etc. If appropriate and not damaging in some other way, perhaps such information might be helpful.
Or perhaps Tesla can do a bit better than the above. Throw in some generic sweetener to unlucky customers that fall into the pipeline with upgraded cars. Sweetener lessens the pain better than just words. It might be difficult to discern where to draw the line for the sweetener.�
Dec 24, 2014
Yoda101 +1
...
- - - Updated - - -
Oops - noob mess :crying:
+1
�
Dec 24, 2014
gpetti Tesla do have such a disclaimer. I personally think it needs some work as it comes across a bit harsh IMO. I think at some point they may need to revise their policy on hardware upgrades as it inevitably always causes some annoyance and dissent due to its seemingly random unfairness. Anyone caught on the wrong side of this is always going to be unhappy regardless of the disclaimer.
My beef with the process is that even in Tesla's disclaimer they state that "[FONT=&] ..a number of features might be launched the day after a customer takes delivery of any car.[/FONT]"; however, in the "black hole" scenario a feature was released before we had taken delivery of the car and for even worse optics, some owners had their cars delivered before us and with more features. Normally the technology trade off is you get technology early you might get less features, not the reverse. Incidentally being given the pat lecture on Tesla innovation after dropping $40K to upgrade to the latest technology felt like a bit of a slap. Trust me, I get how it normally works. Anyway, I've taken the delayed approach and hopefully I'll have my dream car by the end of January and for any features that arrive after that I'll suck it up and try to keep the whining to a minimum.
Disclaimer Excerpt
[FONT=&]We do not comment on potential future features. Please note that innovation is a continuous process at Tesla: we do not have traditional model years. As such, a number of features might be launched the day after a customer takes delivery of any car. If you are happy with the product we currently sell, you should order one. If you would rather wait, that is also possible. Just note that there will always be a newer feature introduced in the near future. As a small public company under tremendous scrutiny and pressure, we do not communicate about future product development.[/FONT]�
Dec 24, 2014
Auzie The disclaimer needs improvement, to include the scenario that happened to you and some other (black hole) customers. Tesla operates in a black hole universe, there will be many black holes ahead and practice makes perfect. I have no doubt that Tesla team will soon master their communication to improve customers purchasing experience.
What sort of communication would have worked for you better, considering business (process) constraints of Tesla - the inability to allocate new unannounced feature(s) according to order date and the inability to hide such facts from unlucky customers?�
Dec 24, 2014
dsm363 It should say 'the day after your car is produced' and not delivered as transit times can differ.�
Dec 24, 2014
gpetti Actually I see the p75D as a unique situation. It is the first time since the model S started production that they essentially released a brand new model - almost the equivalent of a new model year. A significant number of early purchasers were existing owners who (despite some annoyance when we realized how low the trade in offers were) committed to paying a premium to upgrade to the latest and greatest model. If Tesla new when they were starting to build their new flagship vehicle that they had a new feature all but ready to deliver in the same time frame they surely must have known that for people paying $40K to jump ahead, being one feature behind before the car was even delivered would cause anger and annoyance. Presumably they did understand this and took a chance that most people wouldn't notice. I'm guessing that the heated steering wheel was supposed to be part of the P85D delivery and a combination of advancing development of the car (mine started about a week early) and probably late arrival of parts etc. caused the first couple of batches to miss the feature. I think to apply the standard Tesla innovation clause in this situation was a mistake. How could they have handled this differently? I've seen a few suggestions here and in other threads but to summarize:
- Hold back cars that had the winter option, either without telling us why (the development order is still a mystery to most of us) or giving owners the option to take a 1-2 week delay for the feature.
- Make sure that the earliest cars were pre-wired/provisioned in as much as technically possible to make a retrofit possible.
- Hold the feature back until 2015 and communicate it. Some people would delay, others would move up.
- I guess the other option was to deliver it when available, count on most people not being aware of it and if anyone complained point out that they didn't order the feature so they shouldn't expect it - which of course legally is accurate. For anyone who is still pushing, encourage them to re-order. Perhaps if that was the only problem that would have been the path of least resistance its just that compounded with the other problems it made things worse for some of us.�
Dec 24, 2014
wk057 Just to note, as a black hole car delivered to NJ with the cold weather package I did not get a heated steering wheel. I also think it is not a make or break feature either, personally. I also am not sure why Tesla could not retrofit such an item. I do think it would have added some value to the subzero package, however, which is overpriced at $750 for a few extra seat warmers, heated wiper nozzles, and a heating strip by the wipers...�
Dec 25, 2014
gpetti As far as I know, nobody in the black hole group will have this feature, no matter where they live and no matter when the car is delivered. For me I did not have the pressure for a delivery date that you did so the longer things went on with zero information, dates etc. the less incentive I felt to take the original car. The only thing I was actually told was that I would not have the next gen seats and I would not have the heated steering wheel feature (and it would not be retrofittable). As of when I re-ordered, my "December" projection changed to the standard message about dates being approximate (with no new projected month) so it looked likely that at best I would get the car at the very end of December (more than a month after they started building it). I decided for the sake of a few more weeks I might as well get a 2015 year car built fresh off the line with the latest innovations, fixes and features. Right now my projected delivery date has moved up to end of January so unless I hit another "hole" I should have my car soon enough (not saying I'm not disappointed and impatient).�
Dec 25, 2014
Andyw2100 Just wondering if you have now been "promised" the heated steering wheel. Because as far as I can tell, it has still not been added to the subzero package, so whether or not cars receive it is still up to Tesla. Not trying to scare you, but just how upset would you be if after all this you STILL did not get the heated steering wheel? If you have not been promised it, I'd definitely do what you can to try to insure that you are getting it.�
Dec 25, 2014
cwood Anyone else getting concerned about Tesla missing a promised year-end delivery? My P85D (VIN 63117, ordered 10/10, paid in full 12/4, Production Complete 12/20) hasn't yet started its journey to Austin as far as I can tell. With 7 days--including today, Christmas Day--left in the year I'm getting skeptical.�
Dec 25, 2014
randompersonx
Its certainly still possible. But it will need to ship very very soon.
I am sure there will be many people who miss 12/31 though.�
Dec 25, 2014
neroden Best thing I ever did when ordering from Tesla was to cancel my Model S Signature reservation, get my (refundable, at the time) deposit back, and get back later in line. I was still an early adopter (February 2013), but the build quality was a lot better (the person I know with a Signature had to take it in for repairs *repeatedly* in the first few months), it was substantially cheaper, and it had more options.
Tesla gouges the first in line. They've done so consistently.
Their communications on the sales end (as opposed to the service end) have also been really bad, which I attribute to disorganization. The salespeople can't get any information out of the factory, apparently -- basically, ever. That's what they told me in 2012, and I'm sad to see it hasn't gotten better since 2012.
I think a large part of the problem here is that Tesla is not using model years, and is not using version numbers either (like they did with the Roadster). There were some annoyed Roadster owners with "frankenstein" cars which were halfway between 2.0 and 2.5, but due to the small production run, it was just a couple of people.
There was a purpose of model years. It allows people to know what features they're getting; to know whether they're "before" or "after" the cutoff. Car makers do make changes mid-model-year, but they try to make them completely invisible to the purchaser. They understand the purpose of model years.
Tesla doesn't need to stick to one "model year" each year, but going to a strict version-numbering system for major, user-visible hardware features would help a lot. So anyone who ordered an 85D before this date gets version 1 (no heated steering wheel), anyone who orders it after this date gets version 2 (with heated steering wheel). Watching other people who ordered *later* getting the *newer version* just doesn't feel fair.
Perhaps someone should explain to Elon why model years exist. They serve a real function. "Version numbers" would do just as well -- but the point is, you don't order PageMaker 4 and get a copy of Pagemaker 3.5, or vice versa.�
Dec 26, 2014
cwood Whelp, I just got my delivery scheduled (for 8:30a on 12/31) so barring any unforeseen problems this will be my last post in the Black Hole thread. Best of luck to everyone still behind the event horizon.�
Dec 26, 2014
randompersonx Likewise I am scheduled to have my delivery in about 2 hours. I'll probably stick to the "Tracking" thread going forward.�
Dec 26, 2014
Denarius I'm officially out, took delivery a couple of hours ago. Car looks great, but came with old seats. I posted a pic and more details in the tracking thread.�
Dec 26, 2014
wk057 Posted a couple of videos of my black hole escapes in the test drive/sighting thread: P85D sighting / test drives - Page 47�
Dec 26, 2014
NOLA_Mike You and I must be living parallel lives... My P85+ was VIN 13226 and we both took delivery of a P85D today. Congrats!�
Dec 26, 2014
Denarius I noticed as well! Congratulations to you too!�
Dec 26, 2014
gpetti Glad to see you all leaving this thread - and the black hole! I guess technically I'm can probably stop posting here too but Ill probably hang out for a bit to watch any stragglers and also to compare notes with any other re-orders.�
Dec 26, 2014
bluenation ++
that's a good post.�
Dec 27, 2014
gpetti I had the same thought and I doubt that anyone will promise me anything on the record - in fact Jerome went to some lengths to make it clear that it is not a released feature. Before the information clampdown the buzz forms various DSs seemed to be that cars built after a certain point in December would have this feature provided they are in one of the priority regions. Evidence from the delivery thread seems to corroborate this though I have not seen any conclusive evidence that all of Canada is one of the regions. Hopefully 3s-a-crowd can confirm whether he gets the heated steering wheel. Of course this was only one of the reasons for my reordering but I'm assuming my chances of getting this feature are significantly higher than zero which is what I was faced with (one of the few things my DS could confirm). Who knows maybe I'll even get the new seats!�
Dec 27, 2014
3s-a-charm I've been secretly hoping for this feature, to be honest. However we will all have to wait a bit longer as my delivery date got pushed back (I know, shocker right?). Tesla is endeavoring to have my car to me for the weekend of January 3rd. I guess they pumped out enough cars for Q4 that mine didn't make the priority list? It went into production Dec.15 and is still there nearly 2 weeks later (assuming the My Tesla status is correct). My DS told me that I would definitely not get the next gen seats yet. Honestly, I'm very doubtful I will get the heated steering wheel as well although perhaps I'm saying that to myself so I expect the worst to lessen my disappointment. I'm excited to get my car but will have to wait. Gpetty's decision is looking better and better every week that passes as no Alberta deliveries have occurred to my knowledge.
PS. It's "3s-a-charm" although I did watch way too many episodes of Jack, Christie and Janet in my youth!�
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