Dec 30, 2013
mknox 199 volts is within the normal operating range of a 208 volt circuit. Not sure if that 14-50 was on a 120/208 volt or 120/240 volt system, but in any case, the car should be able to accept 199 volts.�
Dec 30, 2013
Theshadows I think 187 is the bottom of the normal range for 208. Tesla May have used the 3% voltage drop rule though which may be the issue. Or it could have been a 240v circuit.�
Dec 30, 2013
cinergi I drop from 230 to 220 (4.3%) at 40A without issue on 5.8.4�
Dec 30, 2013
scaesare While there are certainly some concerns about the UMC, it appears that this feature of the firmware is aimed at a larger issue...�
Dec 30, 2013
neroden Yeah. I am currently on a road trip where charging is difficult and mileage is Terrible. It is absolutely critical that I do not install this update. The public chargers I used have a wide range of actual voltages and a lot of fluctuation. They are of course perfectly safe.
There should never be updates where it is vital to NOT install them. This is gross incompetence on the part of tesla. Again.�
Dec 30, 2013
mjtgroup We, Model S owners, really need to clarify when it is appropriate for Tesla to make updates that impact our ability to use our cars as purchased. There seems to be a troublesome trend, of late, of pushing downloads that many of us personally deem reactionary. I would propose that all future updates be fully disclosed, as to the content and purpose, with the ability of the owner to opt out.
Alas, it appears that our "Big Brother" is overly protective at times.�
Dec 30, 2013
techmaven I disagree. Precisely because I was plugging into a previously untested NEMA 10-30 dryer outlet at my parent's house, I wanted this firmware. If there was anything that could present a problem, I would rather it back off automatically if it could. If the wiring and transformers were perfectly safe and within proper specs, there wouldn't be a wide range of voltages and a lot of fluctuation. Charging at above 24 amps on a 30 amp circuit is just playing roulette. Why should a mass produced product do that?�
Dec 30, 2013
100thMonkey
I understand that perspective, but what Tesla is up against here does perhaps justify unusually aggressive damage control. One more road debris/puncture related fire or another electrical fire (caused by house wiring or the car) could be a branding disaster and do long term damage to Tesla and the EV movement. The steps Tesla is taking are more drastic and precautionary than usual, but seriously, given the potential consequences, it's understandable and likely justified. Tesla needs a nice long stretch of good news and no calamities to get back in full swing. The inconvenience that these adjustments are causing is nothing compared to what a crash in consumer demand could mean to all of us in the long run.�
Dec 30, 2013
Doug_G Had another new firmware glitch on the weekend. I would enter a GPS destination, and it would immediately pop the directions up on the display. About 2 seconds later they would quietly vanish!
This was 100% repeatable every time and no matter what destination I entered. Fixed by rebooting the touchscreen. Annoyingly it took 15 minutes for 3G to come back and I kinda needed the GPS map!�
Dec 30, 2013
zax123 I wish I knew... it's at my mom's, I'll take a look next time I'm there.
Can the car somehow detect whatever effect a too small (big) gauge cord would have?�
Dec 30, 2013
Klaus Yes, it measures the voltage as it ramps up the current from the EVSE and can thereby determine the total resistance of the AC feed. If the voltage drop is too high it either charges at very limited current or not at all. Don't know what the exact criteria were before the most recent software update nor what they might have been changed to recently, but that explains how some users have reported getting no or very slow charges when using undersized extension cables or poor wiring connections.�
Dec 30, 2013
TsRocket �
Dec 30, 2013
Theshadows I agree. The voltage and amperage we are talking about can easily start a fire for any number of reasons. Detecting voltage fluctuations and drops and reducing or stopping the load will dramatically reduce the risk of fire.
If the wire path was installed correctly and is in good repair there should be no problem and you will get full charging.
If you are not getting a full charge then the owner, utility, and/or an electrician needs to be called and made aware of the problem.�
Dec 31, 2013
qwk How exactly do you know this? This is exactly how mis-information starts. One example is charging with the UMC while it's in the sun. There is a temp sensor which will cut back charging even though the ambient temp is in the 60's F. That is a crappy design, that shouldn't be the customers problem. The clipper creek units do not do this, they sit outdoors, and charge up to 80A.�
Dec 31, 2013
Zextraterrestrial This does Suck! totally forgot that happens. need to have a shade box in hot/sunny areas�
Dec 31, 2013
qwk Yep, I use a cardboard box. Looks ghetto though.�
Dec 31, 2013
Robert.Boston Just keep the UMC's controller in the car's own shade (assuming you've got enough length).�
Dec 31, 2013
qwk The cord is not long enough in pretty much 90% of my charging outside.�
Dec 31, 2013
jkliu47 Does this indicate that the sensor isn't enough to prevent fires/melts? Is that the reason for an additional software revision to monitor voltage fluctuations to control charging current?�
Dec 31, 2013
qwk The sensor(in the brick) has nothing to do with the UMC melting problems. The melting problems seem to stem from the 40A adapters not being seated all the way up on the undersized pins of the UMC adapter end. I have had no problems since making sure the adapter is fully pressed up against the UMC end.�
Dec 31, 2013
Theshadows Your UMC in the sun is a completely different topic. That is in no way related to the firmware update. My post is not miss information.
If your car is not charging at full current there is likely a power issue that is causing it, potentially one that could cause loss of property or life due to a fire.
If you call your utility and let them know they will very likely send a technician out with meters and tools to analyze the problem and probably at no cost. (They like you, you are a big customer) All it takes is a phone call, tell them your electric car won't charge at its full rate and you would like them to check the power coming from the transformer while you are charging so the problem can be fixed.
If the issue is on your side of the meter they will let you know (and possibly what the problem is) and you can then call an electrician and pass the info on to them and they will fix it for you.�
Dec 31, 2013
qwk Ok, this is not rocket science. The utility guys will in most cases just brush you off(look up the multiple threads here). It's not that difficult to look at the dash of the model s, and see what the voltage drop is at no load, and under load, and decide for yourself if it's a good idea to charge, and or stay near the car to make sure that if something does happen, you can stop the charge. Since most RV parks will laugh at you when you tell them that their power sucks(I don't blame them), making trips with this firmware disability just went from super long to unbearable.
Let's face it, if the Model S UMC was robust, we wouldn't be having this discussion. House wiring problems will in most cases show up as the red ring of death on the charge port, or result in breakers tripping.�
Dec 31, 2013
dirkhh Is someone collecting data how many people see their 15-40 charge rate drop to 30A? I have a short run with the correct gauge right next to the panel. I had the electrician (friend/neighbor) check it again and it's perfectly fine, small voltage fluctuation is coming from upstream (i.e. the power the local power company is feeding into my panel). It's a bit frustrating to see my charge rate dropped to about 7.3kW... most of the time this won't matter since I simply charge over night but on the odd day where I forget to plug in my car (like, random example, yesterday) then noticing how much slower it charges when waiting for it to have enough charge to run today's errands... Oh well. Could be worse, I guess.
I sent a short email to ownership asking if there is an override...�
Dec 31, 2013
qwk An override would probably be a good idea. When you are dealing with electricity, things fluctuate. That does not mean the situation is unsafe. Myself, I'm not installing the update, I just wish tesla would let one opt out of some of these unwanted updates.�
Dec 31, 2013
Theshadows I would call your utility. They should come out and fix it for you.�
Dec 31, 2013
bluetinc Not to suggest the Tesla is not at fault, but could it be that there is a component upstream that is nearing failure in your case and The S is detecting that even though your part of the installation is good? Perhaps a transformer, etc. When you say a small voltage fluctuation, could you describe it?
Peter
�
Dec 31, 2013
GDH Took my car to Tesla today to have my glove box door fixed, it would stay shut and they downloaded the latest update I guess....my regen is awesome, I have somewhat of lines when in reverse and it seems more zippy.�
Dec 31, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla Screenshots of the About dialog and the reverse camera view please?!�
Dec 31, 2013
Mayhemm This is why I'm so concerned about potential "false-positives" with this firmware update. The vast majority of public charging sites are not going to call an electrician out just because a sensor went off in your car. Maybe they should, but they won't. The real-world result is you just lost 25% of your charging capacity at those sites. Unacceptable, IMO.
I guess I am. I started a thread with a poll to keep track of this issue here. Feel free to add your concerns. The more people reporting problems in one location on the forum, the easier it will be for Tesla to identify and address them.�
Dec 31, 2013
contaygious
Lines? What lines? I just updated and no mention of lines!�
Dec 31, 2013
GDH I said SOMEWHAT of lines, it's more like an area where you are heading. When I put my car in reveres the top half is the camera view and the lower part is the area of direction, let's call it that. I will a take picture tomorrow.�
Dec 31, 2013
AlMc I suspect 'lines' will be in 6.X series firmware. I also would ask for a screen shot if someone has reverse parking lines. Thanks
On the charging subject: I have three Nema 14-50 outlets: Two at home, one at work. Work gives me 30 amp; home 40...�
Dec 31, 2013
GDH So I am the only one that has this change?, I am epic!�
Dec 31, 2013
AlMc You are 'The MAN' :wink: But can you send a pix anyway when you get a chance. Thanks�
Dec 31, 2013
Theshadows Do you know if you have three phase at work?�
Dec 31, 2013
AlMc I will check but I believe it is. At work it pulls off a 100amp subpanel that also supplies our digital xray machine and two of our HVACs so I believe (could be wrong) that there may be some voltage/current fluctuations that may account for the drop. Ones at home are on their own dedicated 100amp sub.
Happy New Years BTW :biggrin: look forward to your expertise with 'solar' as many of us that invest in solar have been helped greatly by your knowledge..and willingness to share that knowledge!�
Dec 31, 2013
Benjamin Brooks Newer firmware rev string than 5.8.4 or it didn't happen�
Dec 31, 2013
dirkhh Fix what? The voltage provided is WELL within code.
- - - Updated - - -
Voltage ranges between about 237 and 241. Well within code (which suggests a voltage drop of less than 5% under load).�
Dec 31, 2013
Theshadows There is a lot more to power than voltage. Is the frequency within specs, is the voltage fluctuating, is the sine wave clean? A loose connection anywhere from the transformer to your outlet could cause problems that could easily be detected by the software of the car.
The utility should be willing to come investigate it with equipment. In most cases if appliances are damaged because of bad power on their side of the meter they are liable and have to replace the damaged equipment. I'm sure a $60k+ car is not something they would want to replace. (Although Tesla has helped protect them now.)
Transformers are overloaded all over the place in the US. I have seen 7 homes run off of one 15kva transformer. The utility is allowed to run them at 140%. 15kva may have been ok for 7 homes 30 years ago but it's not today. And we are adding an additional 10kva of load with out telling the utility. When I pulled my permit the code office didn't ask for a work request number from the utility. If that number is not requested or you the owner don't call, the utility doesn't know (esp if you have an analog meter) you are putting an additional 10kva of load on their transformer. If you tell them you did that they should gladly come out to investigate.�
Jan 1, 2014
GDH 
It was a little dark this am. But you can see the lower part of the screen that shows the area you are backing into.�
Jan 1, 2014
spentan II think you'll find that this is just parking sensors, not the lines on the camera that everyone is alluding to.
Something like this is what people want:
�
Jan 1, 2014
GDH It's still new. And if one needs those lines to back up then one should not be driving.�
Jan 1, 2014
pwillemse78 Does anybody already have a clue what will be in he next release, and when it will be out?�
Jan 1, 2014
contaygious Lines are useful for parking spots especially since the camera isn't centered. Back in and done. Easy with lines. Thats what i thought you meant because they are super easy to add.�
Jan 1, 2014
dirkhh From my reading of the specs of the nvidia chip used that may not be the case. It seems that chip has issues with graphics overlays on top of video streams. That's why the backup camera picture moves down when the homelink drop down opens.
So this may be impossible without a hardware update. Well, they could stream the video into a memory buffer, copy the frames, do the overlay and render that on screen, but they'd lose hardware acceleration and would likely have an awful framerate.�
Jan 1, 2014
milotron On the topic of charging....I have had the power issue warning and current reduction to 30 amps on my 14-50 showing up also.
I emailed the local Service Center and Ownership and they tracked the issue for a while and will be replacing my master charger in the car tomorrow.
When charging the voltage went from 240 volts at no current to 220 volts under full load for a voltage drop of almost 10%. The calculated voltage drop on all of my feeders to the receptacles is less than 2%, not accounting for saturation of the utility transformer.
I was told that they new firmware makes the acceptable tolerances to power and voltage at the charger much tighter which may be causing them to find issues with their own equipment on the car, as in my case.
I will update after the installation tomorrow.�
Jan 1, 2014
Theshadows So was your car showing 220v when charging?
So I checked ours. Car is showing 236v. At the breaker we have 255.6v. There is less than 6' of #6 wire so I know there is no voltage drop from the breaker to the outlet.
I think you may have uncovered something.�
Jan 1, 2014
Rockster I'd be happy if I could just save my user profile's config file to a thumb drive and load it from the USB port of the loaner car.�
Jan 1, 2014
milotron Yes, 220 when charging or heating the cabin from shore power.
I hadn't thought about it too much until the charging power error's started showing up 10% voltage drop is pretty high considering the load and cables in involved. As i never had the charging fault during the day ( only at night ) I assumed that it was a case of the heat pump and charger coming on at the same time and really overloading the utility transformer on the pole ( which is only 25kVA, but should not drop that much voltage even at that load level ).
Perhaps the voltage measured via Model S is in the electronic of the charger itself and after some kind of mechanical connection or contactor that is introducing excessive resistance into the circuit, hence the high voltage drop. I may know tomorrow but the Rangers are rather cagey with releasing too much information around here...�
Jan 2, 2014
bob_p I have a very long "favorites" list for my USB - which worked great until the 5.8 software releases. After the car's been sitting for a while, when I try to resume playback in the favorites list, the same song will be played back repeatedly - and the only way to move to the next song is to manually scroll through the long favorites list and click on the next song - and everything works great again - until the next time the car sits.
I suspect this is a bug in how the current media playback status is being saved and restored when the car enters sleep mode.
Since I really only need sleep mode in the few occasions when I'm taking a trip and the car will be parked for extended periods without a charger (at the airport), there doesn't seem to be any real benefit for having the sleep mode enabled. So, at least until the favorites playback problem is fixed, I'm going to try disabling sleep mode - and see if that corrects the favorites playback problem.�
Jan 2, 2014
Zythryn I have had this happen twice, dating well back before 5.8.4. Although I am listening to Slacker more often than my USB.�
Jan 2, 2014
pilotSteve @Bob_p - I noticed this as well after my first 5.8 version, never under 4.5 Someone previously posted that if you have the same title more than once on your USB (example different artists or version of the same song) that is the cause of "duplicates" showing up, but it is truly a bug because the multiples are NOT the different versions, simply the one song that should be there played n times.
Hope this get resolved and shuffle is implemented soon.
Also as some have previously posted, I noticed a significant improvement in sound quality (I have the original sig Sound upgrade). Perhaps the DSP codecs or Dolby firmware changed. In any event I was startled how much clearer the stereo imaging was and the mid-bass now clearer, was quite muddy before.
Color me happy!�
Jan 2, 2014
pbrulott Ring of death struck me for the first time; really unpleasant experience. Not sure if it's related to 5.8.4 but god this was stressfull. There seems to be 2 or more things at play here, it's not only the -25% current draw but also, in my case, charging stopped every now an then with the red charging port ring every time.
Story:
Left my place with 291km of range, arrived at destination - Bromont - with 123km (a 102km ride took 168km of range)
Stayed there 2 days, needed 175km of range to be comfortable to come back
I plugged at 10am the first day on a 110V outside outlet with my usual extension cord (gage 14, 50 feet) - I plugged many times with it without issue
After the ski, at around 5pm, I noticed that the car is not charging anymore and has 108km of range ... => red ring
I pulled the UMC and plugged back a couple of times, I reset the screen before it works again, checked all the connections and all looked good (I was getting messages like "bad wiring or extension cord, reduced current and then unable to charge, contact Tesla service" alternatively depending if it was charging or if charging was stopped; it finally charged from 6pm to noon the next day at 4km/h which was ok for what I needed (the last time I checked before going to ski I was at 164km of range)
Called Tesla hotline and they were not helpful at all; they said the Service Center would call me the next day which they didn't
The next day, I went to ski and checked the app while skiing => charging had stopped
Came back to the cottage and red ring again with 160km of range
Needed to leave so I plugged it back for maybe 15 min and when it started to work (after a couple of unplug/plug) I got 0km/h of charge but range started to increase (it was -17C/0F outside) so battery must have been heating before charging.
Left with 164km of range, put the heating on at minimum (64F) and drove at 55 mph
I finally reached destination with 10 miles remaining but quite a bad experience of charging in a remote location
Not something my dad or my wife would have been able to deal with
Anybody knows what could have happened. I sent the same message to the Service Center
_____
forgot to mention that I charged at my place with the extension cord and UMC when I arrived home and was getting 6km/h no messages...
PB�
Jan 2, 2014
zax123 Hey Pat,
This is not a great story. Sorry to hear about your experience at Bromont. I've actually been to Bromont and back twice with my car and although it gobbled about 280 Wh/km, I didn't try charging there, so I'm not sure how it would go.
I think that your experience must be related to the 5.8.4 firmware. I never had issues before charging at my mom's on a 6-50, and all of a sudden, it goes from 40A to 30A. It can't be a coincidence. It seems like TM was a bit TOO cautious in implementing this upgrade.
I would guess that the 120V feed at the cottage in Bromont just wasn't very stable so the car's charging system (due to 5.8.4) decided to stop working. TM should maybe implement some kind of disclaimer override (ie. your car's charging system thinks your power feed is unstable, charge anyway?).
Please keep us posted with the outcome of your experience!
Rob�
Jan 3, 2014
ddruz Absolutely agree. The bass now no longer needs to be turned up as much and both mid and treble can be set to 0. Also, with and without Dolby the volume levels and EQ levels are more commensurate though Dolby still has less volume at the same setting.�
Jan 3, 2014
pbrulott I agree Rob, we should have an option of saying charge anyway. This way Tesla could protect themselves since they have a proof that the owner did it on purpose.
I fear the time where I will travel to my parent's place in Quebec City. I normally use a 50 feet extension cord gage 8 Soow with Nema 14-50 that connects to their oven plug. I normally go there for a weekend (36-48 hours) so I can't use 110V outlet to charge, I need the 240V 25-30A. And, if ever I hit the ring of death again because I use an unstable circuit what will I do.
Hopefully that was an isolated event maybe related to the new update and the fact I was using a gage 14 extension cord coupled with long and bad inside wiring/cheap chineese outlet (it is a brand new cottage). In retrospect, I should have tried other outlets closer to the main electrical panel.
PS for the last couple of days, I'm in the same situation (remote from home with access to charging but using extension cords) and decided to use my ICE. No chance to take with -33C last night (-27F). Prefer to keep my baby in a warm garage.
PB�
Jan 3, 2014
zax123 Pat,
If it's any consolation, I've charged on a 6-50 using an extension cord and gotten 30A instead of 40A, not a ring of death, so I'm thinking you'll still get at least 22-24A on a 30A circuit using extension cords.
Did you ask TM to look at your logs to see what the ring of death was all about? Curious to know their take on it.�
Jan 3, 2014
Kalud Pat, I went to Quebec city for 7 days around Christmas and used the 70A charger at Hotel Sepia, its a SunCountry Highway charger and works very well, worst case you can leave your car there for 2-3 hours and get it full before you leave for Montreal.�
Jan 3, 2014
jvonbokel I actually had something like this happen recently, despite the fact that I don't have the Tech Package. I searched for a location (by voice IIRC, saying "navigate to xyz"), and for a split second I saw it start to draw a list of directions (the only text I remember seeing was the "Mute" button), but then it disappeared quickly (less than 1s).�
Jan 5, 2014
bob_p Since disabling the sleep mode - haven't lost position playing USB favorites list - so that appears to confirm there's a bug in saving and restoring of the entertainment system status when using sleep mode.
Hopefully this will be fixed in the next update (really wish they would list the bug fixes in each release...).�
Jan 5, 2014
pbrulott Thanks @kalud and Rob, i ahave a few test to make and I will ask again Tesla for what happenened (with the logs question)�
Jan 7, 2014
LuckyLuke EU cars getting .57 as well now:
View attachment 40070
View attachment 40071�
Jan 7, 2014
contaygious I can confirm the audio sounds a ton better! Thx to those who noticed. I flattened my eq now with dolby off and music is MUCH more clear than before!�
Jan 7, 2014
100thMonkey super pleased as well with the apparent sound system "upgrade"!�
Jan 7, 2014
Mayhemm Just out of curiosity, which sound system seems to be improved; The Sound Studio (original $1K audio upgrade), the UHFSS (recent, more expensive offering), or both?�
Jan 7, 2014
contaygious I have premium so not sure about regular. According to my service the new more expensive option is the same equipment with higher price tag.�
Jan 7, 2014
100thMonkey mine is premium sound.�
Jan 7, 2014
yobigd20 you're all hearing things. it's all in your head. I bet they changed nothing. it's not like they would make a change like this and then not put it in the release notes, right?
�
Jan 7, 2014
brianman The pattern has been:
- advertise (release notes and web site) improvements [120 kW supercharging] even when they only apply to new cars
- say nothing about ninja nerfs until called on it by owners that discover it [suspension lowering]
- hide some nerfs behind improvements [changed energy app, remove projected option for instrument cluster]
I expected better of Tesla from 2011-2013. For 2014, this is the new normal that I expect. Hopefully this means I'll be pleasantly surprised more often than disappointed; in contrast to 2013.�
Jan 7, 2014
brianman Can someone who's been keeping up summarize the following regarding 5.8.4 (vs. the prior firmware):
1. Known PROs
2. Known CONs
3. Things some people suspect changed
4. Things we'd like to research about the preceding firmware
I'll probably upgrade tonite, so I'm most interested in #4.�
Jan 7, 2014
100thMonkey Um, yes, the sound system in the S, especially our first one, was so terrible that if I were Tesla, I would quietly scramble to improve it without mentioning a thing. It was like the fuse in the booster amp was blown, which it may have been, it was just crap for a $100K+ luxury sedan. When we traded up it was night and day better, but even now, all the horsepower is in the dashboard, crammed into and facing the windshield... it gives a very narrow band forward heavy feel. there is practically no way to achieve a real lush surround sound feel, adjusting backward simply robs fidelity. at least now, the sound is pleasing enough that I can forget about it's idiosyncrasies. The car needs some more of the speakers moved behind the front seats, period, IMHO! If I'm in the minority, then fine, I could see why they haven't changed the design, but really, I've owned much less expensive cars with better sound. That said, I'm still over the top infatuated with the P85+.�
Jan 8, 2014
Nrk7001 diddo�
Jan 8, 2014
neroden If this were done, it would become acceptable to upgrade.
The "screw up charging" downgrade arrived while I was on a rather difficult road trip. It's lucky that I read TMC and knew enough to refuse to accept the upgrade. It's going to be an annoying nag to turn off every morning, though. Along with the stupid nag screen about WiFi (no, I don't have WiFi, that's my neighbor).
- - - Updated - - -
Completely unacceptable.
- - - Updated - - -
At home my voltage drops from 256 when starting, down to 239 under load. At at least one of the public chargers I used, it started at 209 and dropped to 189 under load; at another, IIRC, started at 213 and dropped to 195. These chargers are all just fine, of course. But will Tesla's new paranoid software slow down charging? I can't risk it.
- - - Updated - - -
If Tesla sits down and reads this chart which mknox provided, and makes sure that the Model S charges at "full speed" for anything within slightly beyond the "extreme range" of this chart (remembering that voltage will drop a little on its way to the charger from the utility connection), then I think we'd be OK.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/25608-Weak-power-at-new-place?p=536776&viewfull=1#post536776
The trouble is that Tesla seems to have chosen an overly paranoid algorithm.�
Jan 8, 2014
techmaven Yeah, I think this was an overreaction - dropping 25% is probably overkill. I can completely see dropping 20%, then slowly increasing to 95% of the requested charge rate. Instead, I think the current algorithm backs off too far for too long... and gives up too easily. We also need push notifications to let us know if the car has a charging fault. I absolutely want the car to be sensitive to electrical conditions and if it could, help avoid melt downs and fires. It's now a matter of tuning the algorithm to give us what most of what we want, but help keep us out of trouble.
We are in such completely uncharted territory from so many perspectives, that I'd give the benefit of the doubt to Tesla, but also let them know how we feel about things.�
Jan 8, 2014
Zextraterrestrial How about this?
I was charging at 25A and had a 'fault' due to my UMC handle before charging was complete (still 2% to my set pt). Managed to get VT(app) to restart charging but it was charging at 30A now! not the 25A I set.(not a big deal in this circumstance..but) Isn't this essentially worse than what the 25% reduction is supposed to be for? anyways, next update fixes this
...I can make just about any system throw up a BSoD ;>�
Jan 8, 2014
PhilBa I think it is really hard to differentiate a faulty wiring/connection transient from additional loads being placed on the circuit. Given that most HPWC and UMC circuits are less than a year old, I'd bet the number of truly faulty EVSEs/outlets is an order of magnitude lower the poll shows.
Hopefully, this is a temporary measure similar to the road debris change in 5.8 and we will see a more well thought out solution in a future update. soon.
A question, have there been any instances of 5.8.4 trips for HPWCs?�
Jan 8, 2014
100thMonkey I think time will tell if it's an over reaction, however, if no more UMC's melt and no more fires associated with the S in any way, followed by a substantial revision/improvement in the UMC, then I think we can all agree it was a success!! I think it's understandable that they take a path that assures, with virtually 100% certainty, that there will be no melting or fires related to the car going forward... it's super high stakes at this point, IMHO, it's just too early in the game for Tesla to absorb too many more hits without it having a lasting effect on momentum.�
Jan 8, 2014
Kalud I would like to point out that I actually had the charge current dropped to 30A at home on my "backup" nema 14-50 for no reason, wires over-rated (and very short from main panel, like 6 feets gauge 3) and no significant voltage drop, 1 month old UMC...
I complained to ownership and they probably inspected the log because I tested again today and it charges at full 40A like it did before the 5.8.4.
My HPWC never dropped and still charges at 79A like it always did, before, after and now.�
Jan 8, 2014
bluetinc Yes, I was charging at 80A the other day with my HPWC and it did trip near the end of a charge. This was the first time I've seen this happen. I also just happened to be running VT, and I could see the logged Voltage drop from my houses unloaded norm of ~248V to the low 200s. While none of my wiring was under any additional stress, it looks like the local transformer was.
I'm having real trouble buying into the "paranoid algorithm" argument. The idea that because you have done something without incident 99 times, that it's perfectly safe to do it again is a real flaw in thinking. It's the same type of thinking that has caused a number of very high profile disasters and has been sited repeatedly as one of the issues at NASA.
You should realize that a drop of 10% of voltage is very significant and a sign that something in the system is being stressed. Perhaps is isn't your stuff, your car is fine, your wiring that you just had installed is fine, your breaker is fine, but your neighborhoods transformer might not be. We have already seen the Model S cause transformers to boil over and to catch fire. Perhaps even in your single particular case it would be fine 99.9% of the time, but that would mean that somewhere out there, 1 time in 1000 something would go wrong. What should the criteria be for charging safely, that it's safe, each time, every time, with only one failure (Fire) in a Million?
I would cut them a lot of slack that if things look strange at the car, they back off charging. Personally, I'm surprised they only cut things back by 25%. Personally if I had set the back-off current I would have set it down 90% or so, or simply halted charging completely, which is what my personal design does.
Peter�
Jan 8, 2014
FredTMC I had same thing happen. Was charging at 25A by choice. Car sensed a 'fault' and then resumed charging at 30A. Tesla needs to fix this. Not good�
Jan 8, 2014
jerry33 Either there is something wrong with your car, you're listening to bad sources (like Slacker, TuneIn, or low quality digital), or you want the bass to be the only thing heard. I have a fairly old (now) Studio Sound System, and it's great. Hundreds of people have sat in my car and many have commented on how good the sound system is, including the guy with the Bentley and some sound engineers. Not one person has complained about it. Now I don't doubt that a $5k+ Reus sound system it would sound better, but the premium sound package seems just fine to me.�
Jan 9, 2014
PhilBa Good point on problems outside the house. Maybe your neighbor started charging with his HPWC. My HPWC goes from 245V unloaded to 236V at 64A (I'm on an 80A circuit). I've only had one odd experience which was a "charging stopped" message. No voltage dropped and I had to reboot the console to get charging to work. Tesla couldn't find anything wrong and it's never repeated so I chalked it up to "cosmic rays" or some such. Keeping an eye on it though. I've had the car for 7 months now.�
Jan 9, 2014
Najeeb I didn't upgrade to 5.8.4 until now since I was traveling.
There are two things I noticed:
1) Slacker no longer plays the "searched" song on a radio station after you come back to your car. It used to always repeat the searched song when you got back to the car after the currently playing track was done.
2) The map finally has traffic that is not 90% obscured by the blue route line.�
Jan 9, 2014
gg_got_a_tesla First time that I've seen the charging rate cut back to 4kW at 22A from the 30A station here at work that usually delivers 6kW. The voltage sag from about 208V to 192-193V has always been there.
�
Jan 10, 2014
DJ Frustration Out of curiousity, has anyone noticed a difference in bass after upgrading to 5.8.4? I've definitely noticed a huge reduction and am working with the Dania Beach SC to isolate. It's almost as if the subwoofer is barely used anymore.
Anyone else notice this?�
Jan 10, 2014
Mayhemm Heh, so the warning tripped and then increased your charge current?
Does this mean that if it trips you get reduced to 75% of the max charge rate, regardless of the rate you actually had it set for prior to it tripping?
Tesla must not have have put much thought into this "feature".�
Jan 10, 2014
mknox Mine still does, but I think it depends on the song title. I have always found some "searched" songs will always repeat when you come back to the car or tune to a particular saved station while others will not. I think it's a licensing issue.�
Jan 10, 2014
Zextraterrestrial Yes, and they know it does this. Confirmed that update will fix it
really seems not thought out very well. this seems almost 'worse' than the intention�
Jan 13, 2014
neroden Well, good to have confirmation that they'll fix that serious bug.
Did you perchance get any information on whether the update will fix the nasty charging rate reductions on perfectly good Sun Country Highway chargers as well?�
Jan 13, 2014
Mayhemm Presumably, Tesla will be rolling back this "feature" around the same time as the return air suspension function.
With the new thermal sensors in their wall adapters, such aggressive throttling should no longer be needed.�
Jan 13, 2014
Doug_G Well they definitely have been informed of the problem (by me). Would be good if anyone else encountering this problem also report it, as I consider it the biggest flaw they have ever foisted on us in a software update. Way bigger impact that the suspension thing. Adding hours to my charge time on a road trip makes this the anti-supercharger feature!�
Jan 13, 2014
Mayhemm This is the exact subject of my thread here, which I believe you've commented on. I also consider this to be a bigger flaw than the limited suspension.�
Jan 14, 2014
Mario Kadastik Well I hope they come up with a next release soon as I discovered a major issue with the charging infrastructure here in Estonia. The ABB chargers will provide 3x32A on the Type-II connector, but after 5 minutes of usage the charger will check the actual amperage. If the usage is below 16A per phase it will swap over to 3x15A relay however that swap will cause a short loss of power on the feed and the Model S will stop charging with an error message of lost wall power. Now if the Model S were pulling with twin chargers (i.e. 3x26A right now) then this is not an issue as the system sees >16A usage. If the single charger were drawing the full 3x16A as designed it would also not be an issue, but as we're limited to 3x13A the swap occurs and I can charge max 5 minutes, then need to disconnect cable, reconnect and restart charging (also registering a new charge session and hence paying more money). I've notified Tesla about this and they are talking with ABB, but they didn't have the limitation removal FW available or they would have pushed me the new one as an experimental version. So I sure hope they either will communicate at start of charging that they only need 3x13A (in which case the ABB charger immediately gives only 3x15A relay) or they remove the limiter as otherwise for single chargers the ABB charging stations deployed here (and possibly elsewhere) are useless or need a new firmware to avoid this switchover that is needed to dual charge Type-II AC and CHAdeMO DC at the same time to two cars.�
Jan 14, 2014
contaygious My car failed to charge last night, not sure why. It said on the screen charging at 12:05, but didnt charge. I checked and it was set to 40 amps so it should have filled up. Ill see if it happens again tonight.�
Jan 15, 2014
DFibRL8R Not sure if this has already been posted but last night my car downloaded 5.8.4 automatically without my permission. I have purposely been not updating for about 2 weeks after reading this thread since I am planning a long road trip and don't want the hassle of flaky charging on the trip. I came out to the car this morning and was greeted by a message on the touchscreen explaining the new update and why it's good. I think that's a bit Orwellian (ok that's an overstatement but still...)�
Jan 15, 2014
andrewket I've been delaying updating for about a month now. I'm on 5.6. I will be quite annoyed if Tesla does some kind of override. I will update when the suspension and charging issues are fixed.�
Jan 15, 2014
Sparrow At least you got the second version of 5.8.4.�
Jan 15, 2014
contaygious Ok three nights in a row it failed to charge! Grrrr�
Jan 15, 2014
gg_got_a_tesla Does it charge from your home outlet if you attempt to do it immediately without scheduling the start? I realize you may be trying to fit into a time-of-use schedule but, just wondering if it's down to your wall power. I'm assuming you've checked the breaker already for that outlet.�
Jan 15, 2014
ACDriveMotor I've actually noticed a significant boost to Bass with 5.8.4. So much so that I will probably back off the old EQ settings I used (from here) to make the system sound reasonable. Lots more bass resonance.
- - - Updated - - -
And FWIW I've had no problems charging with the new FW update. I see 40A at 245V consistently over #6 wire. If I were having these problems I would probably have an electrician inspect my wiring and connections just to be sure nothing is out of spec.�
Jan 15, 2014
brianman I'm at almost a month of not updating (to 5.8.4) and about 2 weeks of saying no via clicking the X. We'll see if mine violates my wishes at some point in the near future.
Normally I don't hold back on updates but, to my knowledge, there's nothing I want/need in 5.8.4 so I'm holding off for now. (In part to maybe add to the "more people aren't updating" telemetry that might nudge Tesla to deliver the suspension change #2.)�
Jan 15, 2014
TexasEV As this isn't just a usual update but is considered a "recall" for regulatory purposes, it may be that NHTSA is requiring Tesla to push it to all cars since they have that capability.�
Jan 15, 2014
tezco @contaygious -- you might want to check out the Charging Anomaly thread. Mknox and I were having a similar problem. I think my S wasn't waking up from sleep mode often enough to catch the start timer when it was set, and I definitely had problems getting charging to start if the S was asleep when I plugged in my J1772.:
�
Jan 15, 2014
100thMonkey had the car in for a minor service and got a loaner, very close VIN, also a P85+ and also 5.8.4. strangely the stereo, sounded like our first P85, kind of flat and muffled, did that same thing where if you drop the push the sound to the rear speakers it nearly drops out completely. Maybe Tesla is doing a similar thing with the stereo components that it seems they are doing with the battery, intermingling old and new components so some new VINS have older parts... can't explain it, maybe there is a common component glitch that is going under the radar that is handicapping some sound systems, dunno... Maybe I just really like my car and it's all in my head, but I don't think so. got back in my car after dropping off the loaner, streamed from the my phone on the same station and it sounded remarkably better, go figure...�
Jan 16, 2014
tomas 1) NHTSA did not initiate this, Tesla did. Part of their objective was to demonstrate their proactivity and capability to NHTSA -- presumably to positively impact investigation of road hazard incidents.
2) Let's be clear, Tesla can SEND update to all cars, but cannot (or at least does not) forcibly update cars. There's another thread on this� some people mistakenly believe Tesla can force an update, but they cannot. You can defer it as long as you want.�
Jan 16, 2014
ACDriveMotor I kept up my 5.8 hunger strike for as long as I could (suspension lowering and rumored regen/accel nerfs) but I finally got tired of the deferrals. More power to all those who have the fortitude to keep hitting the 'X' every day. Instead I am planning an email to ownership to make my wishes known w.r.t. suspension, good faith release note disclosure, etc. I will adopt a practice of waiting a week or so from now on before taking updates. I guess if we all do that it becomes a game of chicken. But I hope that either way TM gets the message that they've lost some trust that they will have to earn back.
- - - Updated - - -
I will say that having been on 5.8 I've had no issues with 5.8.4. @Brianman, what concerns do you have with 5.8.4 over 5.8?�
Jan 16, 2014
brianman My understanding is that the only feature added to 5.8.4 is -- an apparently troubled implementation of -- charge throttling. I don't see anything compelling in that other than not having to click the X every time I see it.
To my recollection, 5.6 is the best firmware we've had so far. It's really too bad that every version since then has had at least one poison pill. It reminds me of the early days of Windows Update when people held off for weeks, months, or years out of fear of what it might break.�
Jan 16, 2014
ACDriveMotor I had no issues at all with 5.6 and quite frankly if I was allowed to roll back I would do so. That will be part of my ownership message. That said, I've had no charging issues with 5.8.4 - but I charge mostly at home or will use SC's. It is starting to feel oddly similar to WU now that you mention it.�
Jan 16, 2014
Doug_G Actually, the engineers in Fremont can remotely push an update, or a partial update, if they need to. This would only done when necessary for service reasons, at the request of a Ranger.�
Jan 16, 2014
brianman This was proven incorrect with v1.15.14 in November 2012.
Model S software/firmware changelog - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum
I know of no widespread evidence of examples since then. There have been a handful (< 10) reports on TMC of OTA updates that "installed without acceptance by the user" but many of us are skeptical.�
Jan 16, 2014
Doug_G Anyway, Tesla does NOT force updates on people remotely. If the car is in the hands of Tesla Service, then I think you can expect them to update it.
If you want to avoid installing an update, I do believe you have to defer it each and every day. Forget once and it will install at the designated time.�
Jan 16, 2014
brianman Setting the .14 update of the past behind us...
This is not strictly correct. If you leave the vehicle unattended, for say, the holidays
I clicked X 3-5 times in December and then have done so about 4 times in January so far.�
Jan 17, 2014
yobigd20 Major versions , yes. Minor versions, no. Minor versions can be forcibly updated by Tesla at their discretion AFAIK (again, heresay from Tesla service by another TMC member).�
Jan 17, 2014
yobigd20 So I had a charging issue yesterday where charging seems to halt on a charge point station. I noticed via mobile app that it stopped charging too early, but I had enough miles to get home already so I didn't go out to check on it. I tried to force start charging via app but it just kept saying "check charger power". I'm guessing this is related to the firmware bug. When I went back out to the car to go home everything was still plugged in fine. I re-swiped my card to make sure the station still worked so I could come back today and it was fine. No idea why it halted.
Also, I mentioned in another thread that there is an NHSTA complaint on the site now regarding this firmware charging issue bug. And I know of one owner in NJ having problems charging at home now and it abruptly aborting. Seems like Norway owners also having this issue per their forums.
I trust Tesla will remedy this ASAP. Stupid amateur software engineers that, once again, don't ****ing test their code before checking it in and rolling it out. They are not solely to blame individually. It's a team issue, and failure to have proper QA and regression testing procedures also contribute to their software bugs. I fear the day one of those amateur dipsh*ts bricks our cars via firmware over the air update requiring rangers to visit everyone to "re-flash" our cars.
�
Jan 17, 2014
DFibRL8R Well I had been diligently declining the update and was surprised to come to the car and see that it had occurred one morning. I do have kids so there could be a more innocent explanation for the unexpected update I received...�
Jan 17, 2014
contaygious Im still having charging issues too. It never charges more than a few miles at night and when i start it it cuts off atter a bit and says no power. I have a service appointment sat though so hopefully i can make it there. I called and fhey said my cable might be bad, but its been a year so far and it was fine...�
Jan 17, 2014
brianman I have to disagree with you here in two ways.
(1) Your use of the word "amateur" is incorrect, unless you really think that they are "underpaid to the point of $0 for their work".
(2) You're jumping to conclusions pretty quickly about the engineers. You know for certain there was nobody that reported internally that "situation X can happen"? I for one don't have this certainty, and in fact think it pretty likely that such issues might have been found internally and either didn't make it up the management chain, or they decided to move forward anyway.�
Jan 17, 2014
tezco I think you are correct. Sometimes I don't take out the S for days at a time and the update is still on hold. Perhaps it only starts down the update path if you open the door and don't hit the X? I also have auto present door handles off, so the car doesn't wake up if I happen to get too close with the fob.�
Jan 17, 2014
tdiggity Car was at service today, and they forced an update. Not sure which one it is because I thought I was up to date. But, if you're in that situation where you don't want to update, might want to tell service not to do it and hopefully they listen!�
Jan 17, 2014
tomas It takes an action by a person to cause update. First post in linked thread explains exactly how update window works, with photos. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/25423-(Auto)-Installing-FW-Updates�
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