Dec 16, 2012
dsm363 I've noticed the exact same thing. The car has to be unlocked to remove the charge cable. I mentioned it to the Ranger who was at my house yesterday. There seems to be a zone around the back of the car that doesn't activate the handles. They do have an antenna in the back but it isn't being used for that purpose I guess. Since I have a physical key to lock my house, I just click the key fob to unlock my doors as I walk up (also unlocking the cable) and then put the keys away.�
Dec 16, 2012
FlasherZ The generic "Service TPMS. Contact Tesla Service" error for me was the same, straight off the truck. The ranger rescanned the sensors and reprogrammed the chassis control module and the error went away. Rangers have access to more specific codes (through the diagnostics mode) about the error and noted it was an odd error to see. While he was scanning the sensors in the wheels, he noted that two of them took 3-5 times before they would register on the tool, and as a result took the wheels to have new sensors placed in them (even though the error went away).
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Only a few miles, but that's only for the low or high pressure warnings. If you have the generic "TPMS Service Required" error, driving won't fix it.�
Dec 16, 2012
znino That's not good. I have regular condensation in my roadster headlights and tesla hasn't been able to solve this saying they are sealed etc. was hoping they would have paid attention to this type of problem on the model S!�
Dec 16, 2012
vfx
I love that many buyers of Tesla are already predisposed to getting cars that are unabashedly different. RX8, Mini Cooper, Infiniti FX. The Prius used to be in this category but has gone mainstream which we all hope Tesla will do.
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Just those annoying deadly fumes coming out the back.
Don't you hate that you can't keep your garage door down when it's running? GM had better work on this or they will never be able to sell cars.�
Dec 16, 2012
mknox True, but I think that was by design :wink:�
Dec 16, 2012
jerry33 No, it's a bug that they haven't been able to fix in over 100 years. I don't see them fixing it any time soon either.�
Dec 16, 2012
AnOutsider Driving now and the car refuses to recognize my phone. Tapping the Bluetooth icon brings up this screen
I'm guessing a reboot will fix that.�
Dec 16, 2012
MitchL I had the same problem with the Bluetooth.
Reboot curiously did not fix it, but all I needed to do was to go to the settings screen (not the one you get when you hit the Bluetooth icon, but via the Controls menu) and connect the phone.
This has happened to me only once.
Mitch.�
Dec 16, 2012
teslasguy Scary incident yesterday
After my car was delivered yesterday I went for a few rides.
Yesterday evening I had 3 incidents where I put my foot on the brake to stop and the car 'dinged' a couple times and completely turned off.
I lost all power assist to the brakes and steering.
I finally noticed on the 3rd time that a small red icon was appearing in the top of the screen.
I touched it and a message came up something to the effect of 'don't put foot on brake and accelerator at the same time'.
I looked down and my foot was clearly on the brake pedal, but maybe when I pushed the brake pedal down the right edge of my foot touched the accelerator?
I don't know. However, this seems to me to be a pretty serious bug in how this is handled and a serious safety issue.
I can fully understand if the car just temporarily disabled the accelerator, but shutting off all power assist to the car seems like a dangerous action.
Fortunately I was able to get the car to stop before I hit something, but this needs to be addressed asap I think.
My DS told me that if this happens again that the Park button can be depressed and held in to act as an emergency brake to stop the car.
She said it won't screech the car to a stop, but rather provide enough braking to safely get the car off to the side of the road and stopped.
My car was also delivered with a nicked rear wheel and someone had obviously highsided it going over a ramp or something.
On each side of the car, about 3" inside and under the front doors are what look like hard rubber rails that have openings in them.
On both sides of my car these rails were scraped and cut and there were pieces of hard rubber from then hanging down 4-5".
The damaged section was directly under both sides at front door area and were 12-24" long (damaged areas).
It doesn't appear that the battery pack was damaged, but I've reported this to my DS and was assured it will be fixed.
Also, the car has a lot of dust and goo on it from the trip and the wrapping. it would be nice if Tesla would offer to have this thing detailed before I go showing it to everyone.
Finally, although my delivery was a bit fubarred, I still think my DS is great! She was on the phone till nearly midnight last night walking me through a "virtual walkthrough" of the various functions of my car.�
Dec 16, 2012
bonnie Worth also noting that it takes a very brave (or foolish) person to drive with many gallons of highly flammable liquid right behind them - how do the car companies sell cars that are so clearly dangerous? Someone ought to do something about that.�
Dec 16, 2012
FlasherZ This happened to me too, and I realized I was touching the accelerator at the same time with my right foot (I'm a one-foot driver in an automatic), and I got the error several times in the first few hundred miles. But if the car shut off, that's something more serious.
These are the jacking / jackstand locations. I suspect your car was put on a lift or jackstands before delivery, either for inspection or to work on the wheels -- may be related to your scratches in your wheels.
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Took the kids on a drive today and as I was coming up to town, where speed limit is 35, I did what I usually do, hold "down" on the cruise control to "regen coast". Suddenly the car lurched as full regen kicked in, the car did the three-beep alert, and "cruise control disabled" appeared with a message to "restart car" to re-enable.
�
Dec 16, 2012
efusco I've had that same issue. Had to disconnect the bluetooth then repair. Pain in the butt.�
Dec 16, 2012
AnOutsider No dice. When I go into settings I see phone and camera icons under apps is grayed out. I did the hold-down-the-buttons to reset and powered off the car... no dice.
Disconnect how? I can't even get to a list of devices as phone is grayed out? Did you "forget" the device from your actual phone?�
Dec 16, 2012
dsm363 When you click on Bluetooth icon at very top of screen, do you see your phone with
Forget This Device
Connect or Disconnect
Sometimes I have to click Connect when it doesn't do it automatically but it hasn't done that in awhile.�
Dec 16, 2012
AnOutsider Nope. I see exactly what's in the pic... It seems stuck at connecting and I get nothing else (like a list of devices).�
Dec 16, 2012
steve841 Sometimes cycling BT power on the phone will help in addition to the steps above ... I had the same issue early on and not since...knock on wood.�
Dec 16, 2012
efusco Tap the X on that pop-up, then hit the Bluetooth icon on the very top right of the screen, then select your phone and "forget". I turned off the bluetooth on my phone then went through the entire re-pair process.�
Dec 16, 2012
DrComputer I've had this before with the 3.x firmware. A reboot of the center screen usually fixed it. Hasn't happened since the 4.0 firmware upgrade. I have had, however, when answering a call the sound comes from the speaker in my phone instead of the speakers in the car. This happened in the 3.x and 4.x firmware.�
Dec 16, 2012
AnOutsider Yeah my DS said you have to answer and dial with the car otherwise it goes to the phone... Odd behavior compared to what I'm used to but *shrug*
As for removing the phone.. I can never get to that menu! The image I posted is what I see if I tap the bt icon or if I go to the phone app and tap connect phone. I've reset the center screen and I've restarted my phone. I guess next ill try turning bt off and then approaching the car�
Dec 16, 2012
ckessel I have this image of AnOutsider in his garage:
AnOutsider: "Can we talk now?"
Car: "No, come back later, I'm not in the mood."
AnOutsider: "Can you just forget I mentioned the phone?"
Car: "I'm not over it yet."
AnOutsider (turns off BT, comes back to the car again): "Look, honest, that other technical gizmo meant nothing to me..."�
Dec 16, 2012
dsm363 Did you remove the Model S from your phone as well?�
Dec 16, 2012
AnOutsider Not sure that was the issue since I turned bt completely off, so the model s shouldn't have been trying to connect to anything. What ended up working for me... And I hope this doesn't cause a firestorm... Was the diagnostics menu that was mentioned elsewhere here. Once inside there's an "exit and restart" button.
Hitting that seemed to do a softer reset than holding in both scroll wheels, but once the screen was back on, I hit the Bluetooth icon and I was presented with my phone and the add new phone button. Turned bt back on on my phone and it connected instantly.�
Dec 16, 2012
MikeK I would escalate this with Tesla. As you said, it seems like very unsafe behavior.
I wear New Balance 990-series sneakers, and I have wide feet. I did manage to brush both pedals at the same time briefly and got a dinging noise for a moment, but I haven't done it since then. I can't see any reason why the car shouldn't (as you said) just ignore the accelerator in this situation, while dinging away but still providing brake boost and so forth.
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That's a weird one!
I haven't had that happen, but I have noticed that I really dislike how the car behaves when you take it off cruise. Let's say that I'm approaching my off ramp on my commute home. On my RAV4, I disable cruise, and the car coasts and begins to decelerate. I apply brake or accelerator as needed to make my exit.
On the Model S, if I disable cruise as I approach the ramp, the car decelerates very hard as the regen kicks in immediately. I'm training myself to "pre-load" the accelerator pedal before disabling cruise, but I think the behavior is weird.�
Dec 16, 2012
aviators99 It is definitely much different from ICE cars. But I'm not sure how I would solve it. The behavior is an inevitability, based upon how the car operates. I do find that the time it takes me to try to find the right accelerator spot (to avoid the aggressive regen) can become dangerous as I'm approaching the car in front of me. That's why ACC would really have been helpful...�
Dec 16, 2012
MikeK I think regen could ramp up much more slowly when it's triggered by taking the car off of cruise.
I also think that, once regen has triggered the brake lights, they should remain on as long as the car continues to decelerate. Here's the scenario: You're coming to a traffic light. You ease up on the accelerator, which slows the car. Let's say for simplicity's sake that your foot is entirely off of the accelerator. During the initial deceleration, the accelerometer senses enough change in velocity to illuminate the brake lights. As the car slows further, the deceleration falls below that threshold, and the brake lights go out, even though you're still slowing. Eventually, you put your foot on the brake again, to hold the car still at the light. So, people behind you see your brake lights come on, go off, then come on again. Wouldn't it be less confusing to the people behind you if the lights simply came on and stayed on?�
Dec 16, 2012
strider Robert Boston started a thread on this but at the end of the day it's just doing what you're telling it to do. If you disable CC and have your foot off the accelerator then regen will kick in. This is no different than an ICE. With an auto xmission ICE it will "coast" as there is very little engine braking but in my manual Corvette when you cancelled CC it would start slowing down quickly. I learned to preload the accelerator on that car so w/ the Roadster and Model S it's no different. I do not want the car to "coast" when I disable CC - I want it to kick in regen immediately. If I want to coast I'll step on the accelerator.
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I'm pretty sure it works the way you describe already. Have you driven w/ the backup camera on and verified that the lights go out?�
Dec 17, 2012
MikeK I didn't have a cruise control in my M3, which was my last manual transmission, but I think if you're in a highway-appropriate gear, it wouldn't slow down as radically as the Model S does. I could be wrong.
Yup. The brake lights do go out as the car's deceleration falls below a threshold, even though the car is still decelerating.�
Dec 17, 2012
Norbert Why would the deceleration decrease if you have your foot off the pedal? It should continue to apply full regen, so does it depend on the speed whether full regen triggers the brake lights?�
Dec 17, 2012
MikeK I can only suggest that you give it a try. The deceleration falls off as the car slows. I think it's probably at least partially a property of how regen works -- my experience in other EVs has been that the regen torque available seems to be less at lower speed. Or, maybe Tesla just wants to keep the car from jerking to a stop.�
Dec 17, 2012
Norbert So below which speed does regen stop triggering the brake lights? I'd guess it is some specific speed (on a level road).�
Dec 17, 2012
jerry33 It's based on deceleration rate, not speed.
Except for a few moments while I'm doing something with my feet on a long trip, I haven't used cruise in years since it really kills mpg in the Prius (and presumably range in the Model S).
The way to make cruise behave more like an ICE is to set regen to minimum when you're going to use cruise. Then in won't aggressively regen when coming out of cruise.�
Dec 17, 2012
brianman I'd also like the ability to set a wider tolerance. Instead of "set to 60mph", I'd prefer to be able to "set to 57-63mph" allowing the vehicle not to have to react until outside of the [57,63] mph range. Bonus points for being more clever along the lines of gradually increasing when it approaches 57, rather than flooring it at 56.�
Dec 17, 2012
Doug_G As you get to slower speeds the regen backs off. I believe that it becomes harder to pull power out of the motor at lower speeds. Also at some point it needs to feather off or you'd jerk to a stop.
Anyway the Roadster does this and I've been driving one for a couple of years and no one has complained yet! You are going pretty slowly by the time the brake lights turn off, essentially at that point you're coasting to a stop. If you were braking briskly your foot would already be on the pedal; if not you probably started regen braking too early. If you care you could lightly hold the brake pedal, but in my experience there's no reason to do so.�
Dec 17, 2012
teslasguy
I also had the case happen where I bumped the cruise lever by accident and the car momentarily shut off and I think it popped up the cruise control disabled message.
Very unnerving.�
Dec 17, 2012
stevezzzz I've experienced one instance of the 'cruise control disabled' error,too: in my case it occurred when I attempted to engage the cruise control at highway speeds.
As for the problem of pressing both the brake and accelerator pedals simultaneously, it's been a repeated source of frustration. The pedals are too close together, or maybe the accelerator pedal should be located a little further forward, or both. My natural tendency is to plant my foot on the brake at a slight angle (because my knee/shin is against the center console), which tends to catch the accelerator, too. When I'm working the accelerator I also have to make sure my right foot is nearly touching the center console housing so I don't catch the edge of my shoe on the brake pedal when I lift off the pedal.
I have not had the car do more than squawk at me, though: it's never turned itself off and disabled the power boost. That's serious!�
Dec 17, 2012
aviators99 Technically speaking, it's based on forward G-force; not deceleration rate. And the regen starts to transition to coast when you get below 8mph, turning into complete coast at 5mph and below. I think it's really smooth and love the feel of that transition. I also think that the brake lights go, I think it works appropriately. When the forward G-force lowers, the brake lights go out. Warnings to people behind you aren't necessary at that point. I usually time it such that I don't need to use the brake at all, unless I'm on an incline or decline (I do not enable creep).�
Dec 17, 2012
Robert.Boston Let's move this discussion on cruise control to this thread: Cruise Control improvements�
Dec 17, 2012
FlasherZ Except perhaps the error messages?�
Dec 17, 2012
Robert.Boston Agreed, error message should stay here. Ideas for improvement are being kicked around on the other thread.�
Dec 17, 2012
ckessel The more I read this thread the more nervous I am about the safety of the car and even more nervous about letting anyone drive it lest one of these core issues (such as the car shutting off) pop up mid-drive and someone already unsure on EVs panics a little bit. I know we're hearing only from people that have had issues, but we're also only small sampling of the overall ownership so this stuff must be happening to non-TMC members as well.
�
Dec 17, 2012
FlasherZ Then, the answer is simple: the car isn't for you. Your short position is helped.
I, having experienced recalls and glitches with every single car I've owned, new or used, am very happy. I get the occasional weird action - like cruise control mysteriously disabling - I report it, they analyze it, and the next release contains the fixes to deal with it. No need to watch for recall notices, then find a day to haul it to the dealer, where an enterprising mechanic decides that leaving a cap loose means I'll be back in two weeks with another problem for them to fix.�
Dec 17, 2012
AnOutsider Everyone is different and some can accept things that others find unacceptable. Let's try to remember to remain cordial and tolerant folks.�
Dec 17, 2012
ckessel Yes...my master plan of being on TMC for 2+ years and repeatedly noting my long position in the investor forum has paid off! It's time to reap the benefits of my true short position!
Knowing about the issues, I think I'm good to survive something odd. I'm not happy with things like the car shutting off while in motion (either by bug or design) as that seems exceedingly dangerous, but being aware of it helps until that's resolved.
I'm more concerned about having someone test drive it and panicking in that situation since they're already in a nervous state because "it's a weird computerized EV".�
Dec 17, 2012
CanuckS#69 Most new cars now come with a gas-brake shutoff after all of the folks that were unable to drive their vehicles caused massive recalls. I don't think that this is any different than your average 2012 Toyota.�
Dec 17, 2012
ckessel I remember the press on the "runaway car" thing, but don't know much beyond that. It sounds like accidentally touching both brake and accelerator has happened to at least a few people on the forum (judging from posts the last couple pages) so perhaps the difference from something like the 2012 Toyota is sensitivity?�
Dec 17, 2012
FlasherZ Then consider yourself lucky that it hasn't happened to you in an ICE, I guess.
My brother's 1977 Caprice Classic police car spun a timing chain while driving home one day and stranded me with loss of power assist on steering and brakes.
My 1985 Oldsmobile spun a timing chain one day, and stranded me with loss of power assist on steering and brakes.
That same car blew its ECU fuse and fell back into a low-gear-only mode.
My 1996 Oldsmobile's ECU crashed hard while driving on 680 in East San Jose about a month after I purchased it, and it stalled, dead, in the middle of the road, with loss of power assist on steering and brakes.
My 1988 Ford truck lost a fuel pump in the middle of the highway, stranding me, with loss of power assist on steering and brakes.
One of the Goodyear tires on my 2004 Chevy suddenly and violently blew in the middle of a public highway, sending the truck off to the side of the road, with near loss of control.
None of these made me "nervous", it's just a fact of life that bugs, defects, etc., exist. And I didn't give up on cars after these things happened. Don't be nervous. Don't worry, be happy.
And if someone experiences this during a test drive and is turned off, focus them on the bigger picture and read them this post. S*&t happens. The Model S is a game-changer, a platform unexceeded. I'm not nervous at all and I haven't seen anything that makes me nervous, yet. Perhaps it's my experience as a mechanic, I don't know.�
Dec 17, 2012
Norbert Obviously you should be in contact with Tesla service (directly) about shutting off. In so far as I have read, you seem to be the only one encountering this kind of situation, so it seems you may need to get that fixed.�
Dec 17, 2012
mknox I agree with you, but the examples you gave were definite failures, not design elements. Fortunately, Tesla can respond to some of this stuff through software updates and improvements.
Personally, I would like to see an option where the user could switch the re-gen behavior between letting off the accelerator and touching the brake. Those who like "one pedal driving" could leave it in that position while those who prefer that re-gen start with the brake pedal could opt for that. Sure, it would affect range, but then it is the users choice. I'll bet it would be an easy thing to do in software.�
Dec 17, 2012
FlasherZ When I had my early "foot on both pedal" problems (muscle memory fixes this in short order, btw), the car didn't completely "shut off", but rather refused to apply power to fight the brake. Seems like a potential failure there, not really a design element.�
Dec 17, 2012
mknox I duuno. A lot of newer cars will electronically limit the throttle when both pedals are pressed to prevent runaways. If the car isn't shutting down and is just limiting the power when both pedals are pressed, that (IMHO) is probably a good thing.�
Dec 17, 2012
FlasherZ That has been my experience, along with the angry message and three-chime warning.�
Dec 17, 2012
Doug_G Speaking as someone who has actually experienced a runaway throttle (the carburetor throttle valve got stuck wide open!), I'd far rather the car shut down unexpectedly than take off out of control.�
Dec 17, 2012
Tommy Reporting this as another data point: Hitting the brake and accelerator at the same time and getting the warning chime has happened twice to me. The first time I heard the chime was while stopping at an intersection, I didn't make the connection as to what the chime meant as the warning did not stay on the display. The second time it happened I both heard the chime and read the warning. Both of these "events" occurred within 48 hours of ownership, I have wide feet and apparently brushed the accelerator while applying the brakes. I now make a point of pivoting my foot more and have not had a recurrence. As another point of reference, I have had the same thing happen when I drove my Honda Accord on long trips with the cruse control set and I would brush the accelerator and brake at the same time when I applied the brake. For what ever reason my foot had become "lazy" and I didn't pivot it far enough to the brake only pedal. Maybe some of us have a "lazy" foot and don't pivot it like we should, I am not making an excuse for Tesla; however it is happening.�
Dec 17, 2012
Brian H Is this the same issue that Cinergi (?) and others have noted, that pairing must be initiated from the car, not the phone?�
Dec 17, 2012
JohnEC This happened to me several times too until I trained my "lazy" foot to pivot a little more. Nothing bad happened. The car just did what it should - warned me, but just continued with the braking action. I do think Tesla should consider separating the pedals slightly for those of us with big lazy feet.�
Dec 17, 2012
jomo25 So, only 1 person has experienced a full shutdown (possibly) related to stepping on both at the same time? If that's the case, it could be another issue as I recall that person said they only noticed the warning on a separate occasion.�
Dec 17, 2012
MikeK Agreed. This is why I think he should escalate with Tesla. The warning makes sense. The car shutting down brake boost does not make sense.�
Dec 17, 2012
Brian H Nothing like it:
Probably doesn't test the tail lights (or headlights) at all!�
Dec 17, 2012
Mike_Schlechter I had the warning from stepping on two pedals at once this AM. I didn't even know I was doing it. It didn't shut down, just chimed and a warning came up on the screen.�
Dec 17, 2012
strider Yes, it's not as radical but the car will begin slowing down. Even in 6th gear in my Corvette w/ the big V8 when you lifted off the throttle would feel the decel. Bottom line is that with CC regardless of propulsion mode if you want to cancel CC while still driving you need to press on the accelerator.�
Dec 17, 2012
contaygious Anyone else have the "Suspension is too high" warning? Not sure why it says this. I put it on very high, but it's the car's fault if it goes too high�
Dec 17, 2012
strider Thanks for that. I've been driving my Roadster for 2 years and never noticed.�
Dec 17, 2012
FlasherZ I got it only after the car was in jack mode, the wheels were changed, and we took it out of jack mod. It cycled the air suspension a few times then settled.�
Dec 17, 2012
teslasguy Another issue I ran into was as I was getting into the rear seat for something, I got jabbed by the chrome piece that is at the upper back of the door.
It is sharp enough to draw blood. It ends at the door on an angle and the pointed end is amazingly sharp. I tested the same piece on the driver's rear door, and while it is also sharp, it is not nearly as sharp as the passenger side.�
Dec 17, 2012
DrComputer I too received this when taking the car out of jack mode. I had to press the brake and turn the car on, then press Normal height before it shut up.
I've run into an issue with the sunroof. When I first got the car and would open the sunroof it would pop up, then pause for a second and then continue to open. I just thought this was by design. Now, however, when I try to open it, it pops up and then just stops. The screen goes back to 0% open. If I then click on any percentage (or fully open) it will then continue to open. I emailed the LA service center and they said that it needs to be recalibrated and that they were going to see if that can be done remotely.�
Dec 17, 2012
contaygious I get that too. Sunroof won't open on my first try. Just emailed Menlo center.�
Dec 17, 2012
napabill As I reported many months ago, at the 2nd Get Amped event at the factory on June 24th, I was rear-ended by another "S" shortly after the start of the ride. Though the individual in the offending car never approached us to apologize or explain, we heard that it had to do with him hitting both pedals at the same time. Apparently, the system prevented the car from accelerating at the rate we all know it is capable of. Had it done so, there would have been headlines.
I have had repeated instances where I have activated the two pedal warning. While I have been accused of being lazy on my occasions, it has never been directed at my foot. I have thought that there is an error in the relative heights of the two pedals. If the brake pedal, when depressed, was a bit higher than the accelerater when unrepressed, warning would activate far less frequently. I plan on bringing this up with my service guy, WHEN, I get a service guy.�
Dec 17, 2012
ckessel So I've gotten multiple negative (some rather nasty) comments about my concerns on safety. So be it. I will note it's Elon that's set the bar for expectations. He's said his aim is to build the "safest car in the world". It's shame that when a concern is voiced over a safety related feature the tar and feathers get brought out.�
Dec 17, 2012
NigelM As noted up-thread:
�
Dec 17, 2012
Zythryn I'm not quite sure where this is coming from. I am very concerned about any safety issues, as is Elon and Tesla.
I dug back a number of pages and could only find one person (TeslaGuy) whos car was apparently delivered damaged and had the car shut off on him after the car registered both accelerator and brake being hit at one time.
If both pedals are hit at once, especially for more than a moment, the car should shut off. Although brake and steering assist should still be available if possible. This is a safety feature so if a 'stuck pedal incident' occurs, hitting the brake will stop the car. If turning it off is the only way to do this, so be it.
FlasherZ had an error regarding the cruise control, but not the car turning off that I could see. Is this a single event, or were there other reports?
TeslaGuy, did you get information about what happened to your tire and underside of your car? What were they able to tell you from the logs?
Ckessel, I don't think safety issues should be taken lightly. But likewise, no vehicle, or device for that matter, has ever worked perfectly for every single operator. Just because of a single report of an issue doesn't mean the issue is present in every car (it doesn't even mean it is present in 2
I would go test this myself once it is dry and snow free where I am at. Has anyone else tested hitting both pedals?�
Dec 17, 2012
GDH My Volvo is way safer than the Model S, runs for cover. Anyone want to buy it? :love:�
Dec 17, 2012
FlasherZ I don't think anyone was particularly intolerant or non-cordial. No names were called that I can see. I took exception with ckessel's negativity and suggested that it is what I would expect from someone with a short position. I received two reputation comments that supported my point of view, and one that did not (calling me "insulting").
I won't apologize for what I said, because I saw it as over-the-top negativity for items that, in my experience, are very minor when compared to my experiences in car ownership and as a mechanic. So far, the model S has been relatively predictable and very safe.�
Dec 17, 2012
ckessel Clarification: the comments I was referring to were in the reputation dings, so no one saw them.�
Dec 17, 2012
DrComputer I noted from day one that the pedal placement and spacing is wrong. The pedals are too close together and not off-set properly. I too find myself pressing the accelerator with the edge of my foot while pivoting over to the break. This is an issue that should be fixed in the production line and hopefully there can be an easy retrofit for existing cars. This IS a safety issue.�
Dec 17, 2012
SuperCoug This is not a widely held belief and I guarantee that they are NOT going to change the placement of the pedals. I've driven the Model S several times and I didn't notice anything odd about the pedal. In addition, I've read hundreds of reviews of the car and nobody in the automotive press has ever mentioned anything wrong with the pedal placement. It's certainly not a safety issues for the rest of us.�
Dec 17, 2012
brianman That reminds me. I need to go log my feature request in the Site Feedback: "How do I turn off reputation visibility? I don't care if people report, but me knowing about it has only had a negative effect on my forum experience. I'd rather just not see it at all. Anonymous pot shots, especially when people just misread your posts, is purely counterproductive."�
Dec 17, 2012
DrComputer I too drove the car several times before taking delivery of mine and didn't really notice the pedal problem. It wasn't until the later firmware did Tesla add a "pedal overlap" warning on screen. So most of the reviewers and most test drives were done in cars that didn't warn you if both pedals were pressed. After taking delivery of the car and driving it daily, I did start to notice the pedal spacing problem. I've even had other people test drive my car and get the error on screen. If you just look at the pedal off-set in most cars and then look at the S you will see that the brake on accelerator are NOT off-set as much as is standard in most other cars.�
Dec 18, 2012
Brian H Indeed. The standard should be that it is rather difficult, not easy, to press both at once with the same foot. Especially considering the rarity with which the brake is actually required and used in the MS!�
Dec 18, 2012
aviators99 Brake? What's a brake? I can practically count the number of times I've touched the brake on one hand! Maybe that's why I haven't noticed this issue.�
Dec 18, 2012
steve841 Uh oh ... today's surprise:
Went to the garage to head to work ...
Step 1. Double click the remote. NOTHING. Hmmm... double clicked again. Nothing. Repeat in disbelief several times. NOTHING.
Step 2. OK ... run through common sense issues: push door handle. Nothing. Next door handle. NOTHING.
Step 3. OK ... next step, get other key... repeat step 1. NOTHING. Double click trunk ... click (it unlatched and that's it).
Step 4. TMC
Step 5. Give local service till 10am to get to work and call for reinforcements.�
Dec 18, 2012
Mike_Schlechter I have to agree. I've now done this at least four times, and I've only had the car since Wednesday. It is a safety issue and a rare miss in the design.�
Dec 18, 2012
lolachampcar Steve841,
Please keep us posted on your progress.�
Dec 18, 2012
Norbert I remember pedal overlaps happening a few times in my last ICE, except it didn't give a warning. It may be a more common thing than we'd think, without warnings. Such a warning feature is apparently quite unique. A warning, in itself, is not a safety issue. For example, it would be much worse if some drivers would miss the brake pedal because of a larger spacing, in a situation where it is really needed. Perhaps Tesla has carefully evaluated the situation. We need to have some trust that Tesla is committed to finding the best solution, and if there are any problems, make sure to communicate them to Tesla Service directly. I suppose we should allow Delivery Specialists to focus on the deliveries themselves (at least in general).�
Dec 18, 2012
mnx If it were my Model S, I'd try checking (or putting a charger on) the 12V battery...
�
Dec 18, 2012
kishdude Ok all,
got my car delivered on Sunday evening and wanted to post on issues (latest firmware). Overall the car is awesome.
Issues others have had:
1) FM reception - no problems
2) buzzing with ambient lighting - haven't noticed this
3) volume control has too large an adjustment with each click - don't notice this
4) headlamp fogging - this I noticed for a short 5 minutes after a quick drive last night in the passenger side headlamp - it went away after sitting in the garage and I haven't noticed it since then.
Here are the issues that I have had with resolutions where available:
1) Sunroof wouldn't open fully - This was strange. When I slid the control back to say 50% the roof would only open to the vent position and stop. Then if I slid back to 50% again then the roof would go all the way back to 50%. I thought this was a design feature, but was told by my Telsa ranger Nick (great guy by the way) that this was not so. He came and looked at the car and thought maybe the roof had to be replaced - not something going over well with me. After a few calls to some Tesla repair guys in California, they said that they had run into this before and that the culprit is some extra sealant that gets near the track of the sunroof mechanism that causes it to stop prematurely. Sure enough, we found the extra sealant and removed this and the roof now works fine. Great database of problems that they have!
2) The car would charge on 110v but not 240v. This was not a Telsa issue but I'm putting it here so that if anyone else has this problem, here is the solution. When I plugged into the 240V NEMA 14-50 - the car would not charge - even the light on the charger would not light up. I had my electrician come by and check the outlet and it showed power to both hot outlets. Had Nick from Tesla come by with a different charge cable with the same result (can charge on 110 but not 240). My breaker box didn't have any available slots to put in a new 50-amp breaker so my electrician had used a half-height 50-amp breaker. This breaker is still 50 amp rated and has the two phases needed for 240V but is half-height. Thinking that this may be the problem, we switched the connection to another full-height 50-amp breaker and everything worked. I guess that there is something about the half-height breaker that the charger doesn't like.
3) My screen shows 19inch wheels while my car has 21 inch wheels - this was fixed by Nick.
4) Homelink issues. Programming my gate - I have a gate at the end of my driveway with a remote. I've programmed my other cars homelink for this with no problems. The Tesla did learn the code, but it takes me pressing and holding the button on my transmitter on my button for 20 seconds for it to learn. The problem is that when I try to open the gate using home link, The gate starts to open and quickly closes again. It is like the home link is sending two signals each time I press it or the signal is being sent for too long a period of time and the gate thinks that there are two signals being sent- an open and a close. I'm going to try to resolve this with my DS. The second issue is that when in reverse, the backup camera automatically displays on screen which is fine. The problem is that this overlays on top of the home link display such that only the top line of the home link display is shown (in my case it is for my garage door). The problem for me is that I have to back out of the garage and I also have a gate at the end of the driveway. With the car in reverse and the backup camera displayed, this gate item is covered up. Therefore I have to put the car back in park, open the gate, and then finish backing out of my driveway. I think Tesla should overlay the home link on top of the backup camera display which would fix this.
5) Bluetooth audio issue - I have an iPhone and I've been able to pair this over bluetooth and the music plays great using the bluetooth connection. But when I stop the car and get back in, I have to reselect my phone and start playing the media again each time. I would think that the car should remember this and automatically do this. Hopefully this will be fixed by a future update.
But like I said, the car is awesome!�
Dec 18, 2012
jhs_7645 Thanks kishdud, great write-up of the issues! wrt the breaker, a 1/2 height 50amp breaker doesn't seem right. My electrician had to re-arrange my existing breakers so that he could get room for a full-height breaker, and never even mentioned using 1/2 height. An electrician on the forum can probably chime in here, but I'd say something was fishy with your electrician's initial installation.�
Dec 18, 2012
Robert.Boston Did you try putting the key in the "no power" position, in the lower side of the front windscreen, passenger side?�
Dec 18, 2012
Doug_G I'll bet both hot sides were on the same phase. If it were wired that way, Model S would see NO voltage across its input.�
Dec 18, 2012
ckessel And once again, anyone that expresses a concern, in the "mechanical issues" thread no less, immediately risks the tar and feathers routine. DrComputer, I've given you a +1 reputation to counter the negative ones you'll likely receive.�
Dec 18, 2012
Mike_Schlechter @Steve841 any news? I'm keenly interested in what went wrong and how Tesla responded. I hope it all gets sorted shortly!�
Dec 18, 2012
sublimaze1 I guess I'm not as OCD as my wife. She noticed this right off the bat - and I've been driving it over a week.
�
Dec 18, 2012
sublimaze1 +1 av99 - I actually play the "let's see if I can judge the distance to the stop sign and not touch anything" game quite frequently. Note to self: Change Brake Pads at 250,000 miles ....�
Dec 18, 2012
NigelM Ditto. Probably why my projected range was always ~20-30miles over my rated range (pre-firmware update)�
Dec 18, 2012
DrComputer Since I have the same issue, can you please either take a picture or describe exactly where you found this extra sealant?�
Dec 18, 2012
GDH Did you notice the huge gap between the frunk hood and the fenders?...on both demo cars in Portland the gap goes small then gets huge!�
Dec 18, 2012
kevincwelch Where on the car is this?
Alignment issues. ... still?
Sent via Tapatalk.�
Dec 18, 2012
goaliemanshark I thought the sunroof going to vent first was a feature. I'll let Tesla know.�
Dec 18, 2012
AnOutsider My car has alignment issues as well. My chrome is a bit misaligned in areas, as is the trunk and one of the front quarter panels. Nothing major, but yes, a bit disappointing at this juncture.
Mod Note: the discussions regarding pedal sizing/spacing have gone into their own thread: Model S Brake Accelerator Pedal Positions�
Dec 18, 2012
steve841 I had both remotes.. And I tried that too.
1:00pm. Still no response from Dania service center. Spoke to them early 9am ish. Called again at noon... Still NOTHING!
They are implying 12v battery but I never saw any warnings...
Unfortunately roadside is totally worthless. All they suggest is tow. Funny that there is no power, no way to shift or raise the vehicle and they still suggest towing.
UPDATE.. They just called and we have a date set for 4pm today.�
Dec 18, 2012
FlasherZ It's likely they used a half-height double-pole breaker (e.g., GE type THQP) in a slot that wasn't intended to have a double-pole breaker. There are only certain positions in most panels in which tandem breakers can be used -- they don't have the stabs for 240V service.
Either that, or they wired it up as a 50A, 120V circuit instead, but then I'd have to ask where you found your electrician...
- - - Updated - - -
That's what happens when a half-height double-pole breaker is used in the wrong slot. The two hots end up on the same buss stab. This could also happen if someone did something very unsafe, like using 2 non-joined single-pole breakers in the wrong slots, but in that case I'd have to ask who the electrician was and bop them on the head.
Nit-pick: it's "same leg". With rare exception, home services are center-tapped, single-phase.�
Dec 18, 2012
stephenpace Just curious, did Nick say how he fixed that? And do you have v4 firmware? I have the opposite problem--mine show 21" wheels and not 19". Using the dev menus my Ranger attempted to fix that, but even changing the option didn't update the display when you exited the dev menus. I'm wondering if this was fixed in later firmwares (e.g. Rangers can now fix this). My Ranger said that he thought that they locked a few of these settings at the factory and that Rangers were not able to override them, but I'm wondering if that functionality was just broken in earlier versions.�
Dec 18, 2012
Mike_Schlechter I sure hope things have been sorted!�
Dec 18, 2012
Doug_G They're 180 degrees out of phase, right?�
Dec 18, 2012
MikeK Same here! Now that the wind deflector is fixed, I'm noticing this issue. I cycled the roof a few times when I picked the car up from service and it didn't do this, but it's happening today...�
Dec 18, 2012
steve841 Here's the final verdict with bonus features....
Bad 12v Battery (bad or just dead) ..... Still no 4.0 in case anyone at Tesla is reading.
Now for the bonus, the bad 12v allowed me to unlatch the rear hatch which, after getting the new battery, refused to activate and re-latch. Techs had to tear apart the rear trim and get to the latch assembly and trip something that let it start working again.
Now for the worst site to witness short of a dent or an accident ....
�
Dec 18, 2012
Zextraterrestrial My body panel gaps are all perfect and the chrome is aligned very well. The gaps are not the tightest I've seen but they are all very equal. I was actually pretty impressed with the panel alignments when I washed my car and was looking really closely at it�
Dec 18, 2012
FlasherZ Relative to neutral, yes, the amplitude of leg 1 and leg 2 are opposite each other. However, that doesn't make them multiple-phase.�
Dec 18, 2012
Todd Burch William, can't you have Tesla realign those panels that are off as part of the warranty?�
Dec 18, 2012
wycolo > Nit-pick: it's "same leg". With rare exception, home services are center-tapped, single-phase. [FlasherZ]
I'm guessing he meant to type: it's same "leg", i.e. "leg" clearer than "phase".
center-tapped, single-phase (well said!!)
--�
Dec 18, 2012
strider Steve,
So did they replace your 12V battery or just charge it? If they replaced it did you watch them? How did they get to it?�
Dec 19, 2012
steve841 They replaced the battery.
I didnt actually watch as it was too traumatic for my month old car.
But, I can say (being a minor mechanic) it looked like the 12v placement was an afterthought. They were contorting regularly to get to it and take it out...
One interesting thing ... Removed by request ....�
Dec 19, 2012
stevezzzz Yesterday my S developed a variant of the previously reported sunroof opening glitch. Since I've had my car for 2-1/2 months and this was the first time I'd opened the sunroof since installing 4.0, I assumed at first it was a software 'feature'. Here's the rundown:
1. Dragged down on the graphic in the Sunroof page on the touch screen: the sunroof panel popped up and stopped. After I released my finger from the screen the graphic returned to showing the sunroof as closed.
2. Dragged down on the graphic again: sunroof opened to the selected position and the graphic update appropriately. Dragged up on the graphic: sunroof closed normally.
3. Repeat 1. and 2.: same behavior.
4. Called Ownership and described behavior. Tesla rep at first claimed it was a new feature of 4.0 and said he thought it was kind of 'abrupt' the way it now worked. Asked me to try using the slider control instead of dragging down on the graphic. Same behavior: sunroof pops up and stops; slider graphic returns to 'Closed' indication. Second swipe opens the sunroof to selected position.
5. I notice that on the initial attempt the sunroof pops up, but only part way to the 'Vent' position. Coupled with the 'Closed' indication, I argue that it can't be a feature, but must be a glitch: Ownership rep agrees to write it up.
6. After several more experiments where it takes two attempts to open the sunroof, suddenly it starts working as it always has up to yesterday: one swipe, and the sunroof opens to the selected position with appropriate indications on the touch screen. Since then I've tried it half a dozen times over several hours: the anomalous behavior of 1. and 2. hasn't recurred.
So I take away from this that while there may have been a software change with 4.0 that affects sunroof behavior, it's not necessarily intentional and it certainly isn't consistent. BTW, the rep told me that there will be a 4.1 rev coming out in the next few weeks. He also responded to my queries about the smartphone app by saying that the ball is in the App Store's court: the iPhone version, at least, is released and awaiting Apple's approval.�
Dec 19, 2012
dflye I could definitely make good use of a front camera, the S is huge compared to the little Saab 9-2x Aero I used to drive, only a matter of time until I mash up the nosecone I'm afraid!�
Dec 19, 2012
dsm363 My pano roof wouldn't open after the 4.0 update (one version of it at least) but they were able to remote in and recalibrate and it is working again.�
Dec 19, 2012
stevezzzz I had the exact same thing happen with my Roadster a couple of years ago: came out to the car after a doctor's appointment and found it dead, dead, dead. The towtruck driver had to skid the R onto his flatbed. At the service center they determined the 12V battery needed replacing.
At the time, I thought it odd that a 12V battery could suddenly fail like that, with no warning of any kind from the car. I still think it's an engineering miss, in a system that depends so heavily on 12V to function at any level, that the car apparently doesn't monitor the health of the 12V battery.
- - - Updated - - -
Ditto.�
Dec 19, 2012
FlasherZ When I open the pano roof, I don't touch-and-drag because I didn't like the user interface behavior (what some of you are seeing). Instead, I just tap the slider somewhere near where I want to open it, and the default positions (closed, vent, 80%, 100%) are all handled fairly well.�
Dec 19, 2012
kishdude I have/had this exact same issue with my newly delivered Model S. The Tesla ranger came and took a look at it and it is definitely not an intended behavior. What is happening is that when the roof is going past the vented position to the open position, there is an increase in force needed for the roof to get over this position. The motor has a safety mechanism that causes it to stop when it reaches what it perceives as an obstruction. Somehow the force required to "get over this hump" is being perceived as an obstruction and the roof is stopping in the vented position. This for my roof was aggravated by some excess sealant near the track that the roof was bumping against. After removing the excess sealant, the roof moves without stopping at the vent position most of the time. There are still some times when it stops at vented and I have to do a second request for it to open fully. I think that they need to decrease the sensitivity of the obstruction sensing especially for opening since it is not quite as much of a problem as closing. I'll post some pictures of where I found the sealant later.
- - - Updated - - -
He had to get into the "password protected" area and change some setting. I had to turn around when he entered the password. I do have the latest 4.0 software.�
Dec 19, 2012
Sparrow So are they replacing everyone's 12 volt battery? I got an email that said they have ordered one for me. I haven't had any issues with it and the ranger just said he was contacted by Tesla to get it swapped out.�
Dec 19, 2012
Zythryn The Model S does monitor the health of the 12v.
Now, I don't know why Steve didn't get a low voltage warning before the 12v died, and it may be that the reporting needs to be tweaked. But I can tell you for a fact that there is at least one case of the 12v getting low, and the Model S flashing up an alert message to have it replaced/serviced, as it happened to me.
As for the placement, the position is elegant, but the earlier poster is correct in that it isn't simple to get to. I got to see them take out the cover to the frunk. The packaging of the 'guts' of the car is amazingly well done to my non engineering point of view.�
Dec 19, 2012
DrComputer I too have had the exact same issue. I saw that someone on here posted that service found some extra sealant was causing the problem so I went out to the car last night to look for where the sealant could be. When I opened the sunroof the first time it stopped like you described, and then I continued to open it further by pressing the slider again. I searched for extra sealant but couldn't find anything. I closed the sunroof and opened it again. It repeated the stopping problem. But on subsequent times it opened and closed normally. I must have opened and closed it 15 more times and it worked perfectly every time.
So, I'm not sure if it is just a calibration problem or maybe there is some resistance with some hidden sealant that got worked out when I opened and closed it many times. I'm going to go try it again this morning now that it has been sitting untouched for 10 hours.�
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