Dec 23, 2012
Super Gizmo I had several problems with my Performance Model S on delivery. The right front passenger door and rear hatch were out of alignment which they fixed successfully. They also did a front end alignment to fix the car's drifting to right. However my tilt wheel occasionally gets stuck when coming out of retracted position and makes a loud metallic crack when it gets unstuck. Even though it has had two visits to the factory they haven't been able to fix the problem because it only does this occasionally and they haven't been able to duplicate the problem. So, I am waiting for it to snap totally then they would have to replace the entire steering unit!
�
Dec 23, 2012
JRP3 I've wondered about that potential problem. Was there sheet ice over the port or was it frozen moisture on the seal? Do we need a heated charge port option? :wink:�
Dec 23, 2012
Zythryn I am guessing it isn't too common. We haven't experienced this once, and have had plenty of snowy/ice days. One day I even had a car wash below freezing (about 25 degrees). Drove around after the wash, Parker outside for a few hours, drove home and the charge door opened without a problem.�
Dec 23, 2012
Doug_G It was not frozen over. Looks like some water got into the crack and then froze. It took a tiny amount of force to open it, but the spring that pops it open couldn't do it on its own.�
Dec 23, 2012
znino A couple of items for me to add after driving it two days. I notice fogging on the left side of the car. Tried cleaning the inside glass properly but didnt help. I then noticed that the air flow from the driver vent is very very weak. Much weaker than the passenger window side vent. Also, the vent going to the back seats is weak and blows cool air only. I cannot get hot air to come out no matter how high the temperature is set to or fan speed at. Is there some latch or switch or something I have missed?�
Dec 23, 2012
ddenboer So for those having problems closing the passenger front door, mine is now fixed. The Menlo service team knows what the issue is, and is able to fix. No more slamming!
Also, I got the software update (4.1) last night, and saw a tire warning indicator this afternoon and immediately dismissed it as bogus. It went away when we hit the highway, and I didn't worry about it. When we stopped for shopping, I saw the light again, and this time it did not go away. At our last stop, I checked tire pressure and noticed it was 15 psi. Crap. Filled all the tires properly and drove home (34 miles). About 2 miles from home the indicator came on again, and now, 3 hours later, I have 0 psi. Flat.
So, I think with the new software you really do need to pay attention to tire pressure warnings unlike in the past.
Now, does anyone have any recommendations on fixing this tire? I have an air compressor and can fill, but Menlo service is 48 miles away.�
Dec 23, 2012
efxjim I wiped off the top of my dash with a dry microfiber cloth and heard static. The display was showing the settings. Every tapable switch changed states. Blower, seat heaters etc. So no long term damage done but I will only do that again with a dampened/anti static cloth.�
Dec 24, 2012
cinergi In Auto mode, heat comes from the floor. You'd have to go into the HVAC controls and tell it to push air from the torso/face vents.�
Dec 24, 2012
lolachampcar ddenboer,
Not sure this is of much help but I routinely replace the run flat tires on my BMWs with "normal" tires with one result being the need to deal with flats and no spare. I bought a truck stop quality plug kit over ten years ago and have used in may times to solve the flat problem. I would air the tire up, use a spary bottle filled with water and ten drops of dish washing soap to find the leak then use the kit to plug it. I've had tires with 15K miles on them wear out having had a plug within the first 1K miles and the process has never let me down.
Conventional wisdom says do not plug radials but that has not been my experience so far and I've done it at least a dozen times. Hope this helps.�
Dec 24, 2012
jerry33 it's true that when radial tires first came out, the string plugs of the day would get chewed up by the steel in the belts and not last very long. However, that was quite a few years ago now (Radial tires were first sold in 1946). Unfortunately, a lot of "common knowledge" about tires stems from many years ago and is no longer applicable.
That said the big problem with plugs remains: You don't remove the tire to inspect the inside. So plugs are fine as a temporary fix to get you going again, but the next time you get a chance you should have the interior of the tire inspected to ensure there are no other damages. All too often the penetrating object scratches the interior of the tire or the tire has runflat damage leading to a blowout or tread separation down the road.�
Dec 24, 2012
NigelM Discussion on issues fording water went here.�
Dec 24, 2012
Alpha That just sounds like a simple flat tire- like a nail or something... why not just fill it up and then go to a local tire place and get the tire checked?�
Dec 24, 2012
mknox Does the port "re-lock" if you don't pry it open within a certain amount of time? I could imagine someone breaking the plastic door trying to pry it if, it in fact, it re-locked itself.�
Dec 24, 2012
Zextraterrestrial Just wipe your screen before the car boots up if you have it set to power down. (If you think about it first thing in the morning or whenever)�
Dec 24, 2012
Doug_G Had the charge port door get frozen again. Seems to happen when I've parked in my garage and snow has melted off the car, resulting in a tiny amount of water between the reflector and the body. Then when I head out it freezes. This is probably only happening because I'm not charging while it's in my garage, so the charge port door is closed overnight.
(I put a J1772 on the Roadster HPC so I can use it, but the cord won't reach with the Model S in the garage. I'm planning to put in a NEMA 14-50 and use the mobile connector, but good luck getting an electrician right now.)
So far it's not been a big deal. This time I pried at it with my fingernail, but it didn't open I think because the mechanism had re-locked. I went back to the touchscreen and this time it popped open.�
Dec 24, 2012
EarlyAdopter Is the seal around the charge port door fully intact? Otherwise, it does sound like a bit of a design problem.
One thing you could do is pop open the charge port door when you get home to let it air dry overnight. Just have to remember to close it before you head out�
Dec 24, 2012
Kraken A couple of comments to a few of the issues in this thread:
1. Bluetooth. In my experience, bluetooth pairing can be very finicky in all devices. I regularily have to repair bluetooth headphones with my cell phone because suddenly their sequence is knocked out of line (and this has been a trend through at least 5 cell phones and 7 or 8 different ad2p headphone sets). It wouldn't surprise me if it is something similar with the car. I think it's just an issue with bluetooth. My current headphones/cell phone requires me to turn off the bluetooth on my cell phone and just let the headphones realize the bluetooth connection is no longer there, and then it will turn off on its own and preserve the proper pairing for the next time.
Side note, I suppose there probably isn't a 3.5mm aux input on this car, so playing music off my cell phone will probably require the use of bluetooth, am I right? (I use MOG a lot, great service, has nearly anything).
2. As for the hitting both pedals issue (and the idea of a stuck throttle), wouldn't a much better solution (for all cars, ICE or EV) be a killswitch for the engine? If the throttle gets stuck, a kill switch could trigger a fuel shutoff valve (ICE) or an electrical switch (EV) to trip and the engine would no longer have power. If you think the throttle is stuck, just hit the button, and coast your car to the shoulder. It would basically be an emergency shutoff switch like most machinery has. It would just have to be placed somewhere it wouldn't get bumped. This would just eliminate the need to worry about anything with the pedals to solve this issue.
3. FM radio reception poor in the bay area?! Say it ain't so! Ha, I live one town over from where I work. There are hills on the border of the two towns. If I drive from my city to that one, I have a completely different set of radio stations I receive. My total drive is about 10 miles. This is on any car I've driven. It makes it nearly impossible to figure out which radio stations are good all over town. I've never lived anywhere with hills in the past, but they really ruin the radio (I'm sure being halfway between two major cities doesn't help).
4. Aviators99 mentioned somewhere (I think this thread) that he didn't like having to que the bluetooth, wait a tic, and then talk... isn't that exactly how it works when using an aviation radio?! :wink:�
Dec 24, 2012
montgom626 I live in a very cold and wet area. The car doors can freeze shut, the gas door can freeze shut, windshield wipers can freeze on the windscreen. Nothing unique to the Model S.�
Dec 24, 2012
FlasherZ This isn't the bay area (where I agree you have problems because of the hills and such). This is the St. Louis metropolitan area, where you have 1,100 ft transmitter towers 35 miles from you and nothing but flat land all around, and the car gets crappy reception. Even my 1965 Pontiac with stock radio picks up some stations better than the Model S.�
Dec 24, 2012
napabill Something new today. Was running some errands and the turn indicator clicking was silent. Tried turning the car off, then back on nothing. So re-booted system, and it returned.�
Dec 24, 2012
William3 +1
That's what I've been doing as well.
I'd still like for them to add a "screen off for 60 seconds" command though.�
Dec 24, 2012
napabill I bought a pack of 36 bright yellow 16" microfiber towels at Costco and have found that their thickness allow for a wipedown without interacting with the screen when on. Keep one under my seat.�
Dec 24, 2012
aviators99 Actually, I was talking about the voice command. And nope, that's not how it works using an aviation radio!
But in all seriousness, the voice command issue isn't that you have to wait, it's that it beeps before it is ready and you have no idea when you can start talking unless you look down at the display and wait for it to say "recording started".�
Dec 24, 2012
znino Yes but my problem is two fold. First my leftmost face vent has practically no flow when I turn on air from there. The other face vents are fine.
Second the air in rear seat vent is weak and cold. Des not heat up.�
Dec 24, 2012
cinergi That's weird. Try setting it to face-only? I have plenty of airflow front and back in that mode (not so much in both floor & face mode). And I believe it was warm (you might need to give it a bit to warm up the ducting first).�
Dec 24, 2012
znino I did face only. Only the left most vent is weak. For the back I did wait a bit but still cool whereas the front is very hot. The last thing I want is them starting to take the dash apart on a new car to look for ventilation issues! Argh!�
Dec 24, 2012
mknox Could this be related to the brand of device? I paired my iPhone 4 when I got it and my existing work BlackBerry to my car several years ago and have never had to touch either of them since.�
Dec 24, 2012
aviators99 I have some minor BT issues, but I don't have to re-pair. About 1/3 of the time the car doesn't automatically connect to the device. I think I've determined that it has to do with the sequence. If I have BT on on my phone when I sit in the car it works fine, but if I turn the BT on after I sit in the car I have to manually connect from the car's display.
I'm not positive this is the exact culprit, and it requires more testing.�
Dec 24, 2012
efxjim I didn't come close to the screen. I was wiping the top of the dash and heard static from the cloth. There maybe be electronics just under the top of dash.�
Dec 24, 2012
FlasherZ I found that on my Galaxy S3 I had to make sure that I had the option to have the swipe-lock screen on even when protected by a pattern, otherwise the car wouldn't pair / dial / etc. Android limitation on the Samsung branded phones.�
Dec 25, 2012
Francis Lau My car had the same issues too. My driver side window and left 6 inches of the front windshield fogged up even thought I had AC set to vent. Also, back air vents emits cold air only; even though front vents warm. I tested with all three modes - vent, face and foot.
Had anyone gotten heat from the rear vents? Or seen this fogging issue?�
Dec 25, 2012
dtich have to chime in to say i have had no problems with voice control, i do manage to glance at the display to see "recording" but it has worked exactly the same each time so i'm now quite used to it and the nav has found almost every place i've searched with no problem, really been amazing actually. and i've been using siri and some voice control in the bmw for a year or two, but i frankly didn't use it that often cause it wasn't that useful. the model s has been superb in this regard.
my 2�.�
Dec 25, 2012
digitaltim I am seeing this 8x3 strip on left edge of the Front windshield that does not defrost or clear of fog.�
Dec 25, 2012
Matt_D There is a fail safe-- I asked my delivery specialist this question. She said to hold the Parking button down continuously on the control stick to bring the car to a stop.�
Dec 25, 2012
lolachampcar Elon could have used this on his F1 (his story in his words�
Dec 25, 2012
tezco I spray silicone spray on the gaskets of my car doors every fall. Might have to spray the charge port door and hinge as well, after stuffing a kleenex into the charge port so the contacts don't get sprayed....�
Dec 25, 2012
Lloyd We use an Ice Release coating in aviation called "ICG" It may be worthwhile to buy a can of this spray to make opening the port easier in very cold climates.
http://www.vortexaviation.com/icg.html�
Dec 25, 2012
efusco Any idea where it can be purchased? Seems like a good idea to put some of this on the door handles too. I presume it's safe on the paint and plastic?
Found this on a link at the vortex aviation site, but it doesn't look like quite the same thing: Ice Rid - Sporty's Pilot Shop�
Dec 26, 2012
gaswalla quick follow up: It took 8 days and a bunch of emails and calls, but today, my car had the correct firmware installed. I was in contact throughout the day with the head of service at headquarters, and they logged into my car multiple times and took care of all the issues remotely. Even got the correct color of car and right size wheels on display. It was a bit concerning that the car was shipped with software that didn't match the hardware, and today it was all fixed. Thanks!�
Dec 26, 2012
PRJIM How was the Delivery Specialist oblivious to the lack of tech package features on your vehicle?�
Dec 26, 2012
gaswalla Yep.. that was absolutely annoying.. She couldn't figure out what was going on. Kept saying, "...these cars need to be driven and rebooted a few times for everything to work well..." I took delivery at the service center in San Diego: nice folks, but they seem like amateurs. I'd go to Newport Beach for delivery if I had to do it again (and I live 10 minutes from the San Diego center).�
Dec 27, 2012
wycolo Frozen driver's window - can't close door ! ! [originally posted to new thread, then moved (buried) elsewhere, so reposting here]
Mid day melt left droplets of water distributed all over windows, especially down along the window/door seal. This am 14*F driver's door could be opened but since window cannot move down at all it just snaps out (ouch!). If you try to close door, the window will smash against chrome strip (not good!). I did not really try to close door since it looked like it could break glass!! No way for glass to sneak under the chrome strip.
TM has outsmarted itself on this one, it would seem. Maybe there IS a choice somewhere that can eliminate the "close all the way" action upon door closure. If not, TM needs to supply a software fix for cold climate owners so the windows will raise only to the SEMI-CLOSED position. It looks like sealing will still be adequate.
Solution here was to get old credit card and chisel away the frozen globules, then slide the cc between the door seal & the glass, separating the two. This frees up the window so it can go up & down normally. Wait till you have to do this yourself, and you will carry plastic garbage bags around to tape to driver's window (one idea that comes to mind - a rather lame one). But put the old cc in your wallet rather than in the car to avoid having to pop out that glass.
--�
Dec 27, 2012
tzejohn The same thing happened to me this morning. I was having the electricians install my outlet, and I had opened the hatch to check on something. After I close and left the area, the electricians reported the hatch opening within 10 minutes after I had left.�
Dec 27, 2012
Zas Wycolo, sorry to hear about this.. doesnt sound like fun.. but i was wondering since the windows froze - how about the door handles ?.. did they extend and retract normally ?.. or did you have to do anything to them as well ?�
Dec 27, 2012
efusco Nothing that hasn't been reported previously, I don't think, but I have a constellation of little quirks that randomly, but almost daily, pop up:
*Software Version 4.0 (1.17.50)
1)Low Tire Pressure Warning--they're not--usually does this upon start up when it's cold out.
2)Wiper Fluid Low Warning--haven't checked it, but doubt it's low since it hasn't been used. No rhyme or reason to the appearance and disappearance of this one.
3)Media Doesn't resume: Can't quite figure this one out either. Usually it will pick right up where I was last listening (usually XM radio). Once in a while, though, I'll get back in the car and I'll be met with just silence. I think it might be after I've shown people the available features and perhaps left it on a screen that is different from the "Now Playing" one even though I didn't select anything new.
4)Door Handle didn't extend-this is rarely a problem, but once in a while (today) I stand there staring stupidly at the handle and it won't extend. Pressing the handle didn't work either, had to use the fob.
5)Center Screen Reset-Just saw this once, yesterday. Got in the car, started and drove as normal, about 1/4 mile down the road the center screen went black, showed a small "X" in the center of the display for about 10 seconds or so, went black again, the music stopped, then it rebooted and everything was normal.
6)Center Screen Doesn't come on-Another one time occurance (memorable b/c I was trying to show off the car to an interested party). Had to do the scroll wheels reboot to get it to come on.
7)Charger release games-I swear I still don't understand the charger port thing. Pull too soon and the pin sticks and won't release, pull a split second too late and the pin reengages, but there's barely a 1/2 second or less, most of the time, to pull out the charger before the pin reengages. There should be a 2-3 second pause/goes to white light when the button on the charger is pushed. I've had a few times where after 30-45 seconds of fiddling that I was worrying I'd never get the damn car unplugged.
8)Charger unplugged Warning-Once in a while I'll get this, it seems that I've got the handle pushed all the way in, but I see an alert that it isn't even though the ring is glowing green.
9)Passenger Side rear view mirror positioning-After using reverse with my programmed positions, then going back into Drive, the passenger side rear view mirror changes position a bit, but not all the way to the programmed position. If I hit the button again for myself that mirror will move into the programmed position. Very reproducible almost every time I use reverse. No issues at all with the driver's side.
10)EV Grin-Everyone I give a ride to gets a goofy grin that is difficult to remove. Sometimes telling them the price of the car does the trick, but often it takes tincture of time to get it to fade.
11)Extended trip time-Can almost never leave a store or restaurant without being stopped and questioned about the car, necessary to allot 5 extra minutes per trip.
12)Fogging-Definately experience the widely reported driver's side fogging issue.
*Will update this as other issue crop up.�
Dec 27, 2012
dsm363 This happens from time to time, you just have to push it in a little harder until you hear it click again and it works fine. Charge changes from 16A to 40A then for me.
What software version are you running?�
Dec 27, 2012
AnOutsider The weather has gotten a lot colder in the last few days, and I find myself stupidly pressing the handle as well. I think for the time being, I'm just going to use the keyfob.�
Dec 27, 2012
efusco 4.0 (not sure of the exact version number)�
Dec 27, 2012
FlasherZ If your TPMS hasn't been reprogrammed to the 36 psi setting (per the tech bulletin), this means your tires have fallen below 38.5 PSI due to cold. This will happen on a cold day, and will go away when you drive because the tires warm up. Inflate your tires to 42 PSI on an average day and it will likely go away.
4.0 bug. Goes away in 4.1.
if your car goes to sleep -- usually overnight or because you've let it sit for more than 2 hours -- the media will sometimes reset (especially since the 3G turns off when the car powers down the displays). I've noticed this too.
I haven't experienced this.
Crashes. Woo! v4.1 fixes some of these.
v4.0 artifact too. v4.1 seems to make this more predictable.
I got this once, but only because I hadn't pushed the UMC in far enough. Usually it would be yellow but in this case, no.�
Dec 27, 2012
efusco Thanks, hopefully 4.1 will occur soon.�
Dec 27, 2012
Doug_G #2 - ditto.
#3 - I've had the opposite. I stopped media before getting out of the car. Later when I opened the passenger door to fetch something it started blaring.
#4 - I've had this happen too, a couple of times. One thing I've noticed is the door handles tend to keep opening and closing if I'm working in my garage; I guess this is unavoidable. If I try to access the car just after they close they won't auto-extend again. I think there's a timeout. Twice now I've gone to put something in the trunk, closed the trunk, then walked up to the driver's door and instead of opening it tried to chomp on my hand.
#7 - Never had a problem with the Mobile Connector and the button. With the J1772 it seems to work best if I push the release button on the J1772 handle, wait one second, then pull out the adapter.
#8 - Had this happen last night. It was charging, so I walked away and only saw the message in the morning. When I went to the back of the car and pushed the handle further in it clicked. It kept right on charging throughout.�
Dec 27, 2012
MikeK For what it's worth, my Dad's BMW 850i would do this as well, for example if the 12V battery ran down. The 850 window was definitely designed to allow the door to open even if the window didn't go down, and it would hit the plastic trim around the window when the door closed. I suspect it's not an uncommon problem with frameless doors.�
Dec 27, 2012
JRP3 I wonder if applying RainX to the glass and some silicone to the seals would help prevent this?
Does the handle stop retracting if something is in it's way, like your hand? I can see the headlines now, "EV eats fingers!"�
Dec 27, 2012
jkirkebo It's spring loaded when retracting, the motor only pushes it out. The spring isn't strong enough to do any damage.�
Dec 27, 2012
Norbert Makes me wonder if it would be helpful to have something like a 12V-operated hairdryer (or maybe an infrared device), and use it to unfreeze various things that might get frozen?�
Dec 27, 2012
AnOutsider Colder today (38) and I stood in the parking lot of walmart like an idiot. First they wouldn't extend. Used the fob. Then it wouldn't open. After pulling for a while I thought to try the rear hatch, but tried the back door on the way -- opened no problem. Tried the front again and it opened. Naturally there were onlookers.
3 years... These handles should have been perfected or scrapped.�
Dec 27, 2012
DrComputer The tech guys at the service center and corporate I've spoken to just shake their heads at the extending handles. All they say is "Elon gets what Elon wants". I'm sure every engineer at Tesla has said the extending handles are just a fiasco waiting to happen. They are an overly complicated solution to a simple problem. Just look at those automated seatbelts that many cars had in the 90's. All of those went away too because it just added unneeded complexity.�
Dec 27, 2012
Lloyd They are kind of cool, but I would have been just as happy with a low tech Austin Martin style handle!
�
Dec 27, 2012
dtich i am going on the record saying that the handles have worked very well for me. i have had many friends in the car, no one has a problem with the doors, and everyone LOVES the handles.
let's not forget that new things take a bit of getting used to. you walk up with your fob, the handles extend. you wait 400ms, then tug gently on the door, it opens. close it firmly, it closes.
i don't say some people are not having actual issues, but i am saying that the door handle system in itself has worked very well in my experience. i like them. a lot.
2�.�
Dec 27, 2012
efusco I agree completely, the door handles work perfectly and are one of my favorite features. Can't comprehend the negativity.�
Dec 27, 2012
CapitalistOppressor I can't wait to get my Model S, but from the moment I saw the car, nothing has annoyed me more than the door handles. They are a solution in search of a problem, and I'm convinced there were simpler ways to achieve whatever minor reduction on drag that they offer.
I'm totally on board with bulling through the little ticky-tack software issues the car has. It's a complex beast and this is the first time anyone has every tried anything like this. And in the software industry as a whole its practically a given that you will end up playing wack-a-mole for awhile as you push updates live to resolve issues, only to have new issues crop up requiring an update.
But there can be no defense for the door handles, IMHO. They are taking up substantial development resources in an attempt to get them to work "right" (to say nothing of the ill will being generated in customers) and its all completely unnecessary. There's no need to dive head first into the stupid side of the pool when its hard enough just keeping your head above water on the smart side.�
Dec 27, 2012
AnOutsider Dtich, you live in a warmer climate than I do, so perhaps you may not experience the same issues... It's definitely not an issue of "getting used" to them. They're not working consistently, and it seems to happen more so when the temperature is cold. I don't doubt that you haven't had any issues, but the issues do exist (and I don't have 4.0 for them to extend as I approach).
It may not be happening to you, but you can't comprehend that if something isn't working correctly for someone they would be annoyed with them? Especially something as important as the mechanism that you use to get into your vehicle?�
Dec 27, 2012
Doug_G So far my door handles have worked just great. I don't see why some people are so negative about them.�
Dec 27, 2012
Norbert If the front handles opened after using the back handles, then that seems like a rather trivial software problem (of course seemingly trivial problems sometimes have surprisingly complex causes). There seems to be some general software problem with processing sensor input, or something like that. It doesn't sound like the handles themselves are to be blamed (or too complex).
EDIT: Also, if they extended after using the fob, but not before, then that's apparently not a mechanical problem in the handles (but a problem in the proximity sensor, which also should unlock the doors, regardless of any handles).�
Dec 27, 2012
JRP3 Maybe because they aren't working very well for them?�
Dec 27, 2012
Zas Me too, I have had no problems...and I too was one of those that thought Tesla had "over-designed" the handles..but since i have been driving the car daily, they have grown on me immensely, and I think they are a pretty cool feature.
now time will tell, whether these handles are suitable for a cold climate... We need to keep in mind that even in -20C weather, your "normal" handles may also freeze up ....so I think we all need to wait out the the winter to make a final assessment on the handles, as we clearly have contradictory viewpoints here.�
Dec 27, 2012
dtich i know outsider, i have the benefit of the warmer clime. and i admit, the fact that i live here was a factor, perhaps small, in finalizing the car purchase. and i do think that the handles should work fine in any temperature, or it's not the car i thought i was buying. i am holding out hope that the design is solid, but they just may have some manu tolerance issues to sort out before everything works perfectly in all weather. i'm sorry you and others are taking the brunt for that. likewise this annoying 12v battery issue, another failing on some front or other. and i know it's easy for me to be pollyanna about it all because i'm not experiencing some of the more egregious issues. i came on board as a veteran of many beta software and hardware rollouts and know very well the suffering that we v1 adopters deal with.. i committed to that before i signed the mvpa. i knock on wood that things are not too bad for me, and hold out hope that all these startup hiccups of a bold and brave new company and their first real product, an industry-changing product, will soon be only mildly annoying memories of the otherwise surprisingly impressive beginnings of a new car company.�
Dec 27, 2012
Brian H Yes, remember the old thumb-button type? A few times I was tempted to hammer them in. I'm sure it would have smashed the mechanism beyond repair!�
Dec 27, 2012
Electric1 Despite where he lives, dtich has a point Let's try to keep some of these climate things in perspective. It's reality that things (cars included) freeze in cold, wet weather. I have a Toyota that freezes, a Jaguar that freezes over and even have had the old Scandinavian standard bearer, Volvos freeze, one to the point where it tore a hatch seal. Just because a Model S is a techno-wonder, it is not exempted from the laws of physics and if there is water on a seal (even a charge port seal) or a window, it will freeze at temps less than 32F. By now I am quite sure that someone at TM has figured out that maybe they don't quite have the clearances, software or seal materials quite right and the likely are working on fixes, because it does them no good to have unhappy customers, who, as dtich says "know very well the suffering that we v1 adopters deal with."
IMHO it seems to me that anyone who has the resources to be in this game must, almost by definition, have the intelligence to understand that we are at the very cutting edge of an incredibly complex new technology and that there will be growing pains. If you don't get that then maybe you should be buying from a manufacturer of technologies that have been proven for decades like MB or BMW (and which technology accordingly decades old).
I, for one, sort of look forward to a bit of adventure when I finally get mine.�
Dec 27, 2012
AnOutsider Fair point. However, my handles did not freeze. It's not snowing or raining out, it's simply cold. I have no idea if it is because the sensors they are now using detect heat or just perform poorly in the cold (as I said, once I got in the car the dash read 38 degrees). Iced over handles are understandable as they would plague any car. However, I've never owned a car where the door handles did not function properly because it was cold out (IF that is the cause, it could just be coincidence).
I'm willing to give Tesla a LOT of slack, but I have to agree with some of the sentiments that the door handles were more about the flashiness. I'm actually OK with that, but when something is for show, it should definitely function properly in a consistent manner.�
Dec 27, 2012
PureAmps Since door handles seem to be the topic of the moment. I will give my experience after only a day of use (running v4.0).
I have now had three occasions where the doors opened on their own without anyone pulling the handle. The first time was at pickup at the factory where the front passenger door was closed (quite firmly, because as others have reported the front passenger door can be difficult to close), and then immediately reopened. I was sitting in the driver's seat and could hear the door close firmly and then I heard the click of the electronic mechanism to unlatch the door a half second later. Twice now, I have had the driver's door open after I approached the car and the handles automatically extended. A similar behavior (before auto-extending handles) has been captured on one of cinergi's videos, so I wasn't totally surprised to see it.
I think in all cases the handle's pressure sensor is detecting pressure on the handle from either the door handles extending or from the slamming of a door and then opening the door. I hope they will be able to correct this issue with a software update as it does seem to be a sensitivity/timing issue related to door opening/closing and handle extension/retraction. I will raise this issue with Tesla at my upcoming service appointment to address some due bill items on the car (missing paint armor and a defective driver's dome lamp).
In general, I think the door handles are "cool" (my kids absolutely love them) and a unique feature of the car, but I do worry about the long term reliability of the handles and the entire electronic door latching mechanism.�
Dec 27, 2012
montgom626 I am still waiting for my MS. I find the door handles to be works of art.�
Dec 27, 2012
mknox If this happens in a stiff wind, and the door is blown open wildly, that is not going to be a pleasant experience for anyone. I truly hope this is something that can be fixed in software, but I fear it may be hardware-related. I wish the handles actually had a bit of "travel" when you pull on them to open the door because I think the sensitivity requirements of a handle that barely moves may be too much for the myriad of conditions and weather that the typical car is exposed to.�
Dec 28, 2012
Todd Burch AnOutsider and others: these are probably manufacturing/assembly issues. As Doug said, he's had no issues and lives in Ottawa, so the cold is not likely the culprit.
I suspect we're talking about a violation of a few assembly tolerances...something's misaligned...something like that. As cinergi mentioned, just have Tesla fix the door handles. Once they've been adjusted or replaced, I think you'll be much happier.
What you're experiencing is probably not a design flaw but a manufacturing/assembly issue.�
Dec 28, 2012
kevincwelch Good points, Electric1.�
Dec 28, 2012
AnOutsider We'll see. I once again emailed ownership, but I've never got a response to any of my inquiries there. I'll probably have to bring it in for service (or have it towed? Don't think I can make it to DC)�
Dec 28, 2012
NigelM AO, call your service guys. You'll get a much faster response and they'll take care of you. I think that the ownership mail address probably gets overloaded and whoever reads that is going to just pass it back to service anyway.
BTW, every service call gets a ticket logged in Fremont so Tesla will still collect overall data to see if there's a general issue.�
Dec 28, 2012
Robert.Boston I agree that the issue seems to be car-specific and best addressed by Service. My handles have worked flawlessly. I do not have a garage, and the past several days have been rain during the day and freezing overnight. Each morning (Wed-Fri), I've heard ice crack as the handles extend out. No issues. I hope those with issues get them sorted out promptly.�
Dec 28, 2012
AnOutsider Went ahead and did that... Funnily enough, the woman told me service had moved and asked for my email address. She then emailed service on my behalf and CC'd me on it. Sooo, back to the waiting game
That's good to know. In my email I asked if there were any mechanical issues there, so maybe that's the case. I wonder though, if you didn't have the tech package, would it have recognized your touch through the ice? Suppose you could always just use the key to extend them too.�
Dec 28, 2012
lolachampcar I snickered when my bud with a MP4-12C was sitting in the rain trying to get his fancy doors to open. I hope its not payback time when my S shows up�
Dec 28, 2012
Norbert If it were just a hardware problem, then why would the handles extend with the key fob, but not with the proximity sensor? And why would the front door open after opening the back door, but not before? Sounds more like software to me, though maybe the software somehow gets confused by some car-specific (mis-)alignment.�
Dec 28, 2012
efusco If the proximity sensor in the car is not functioning properly it could do that. The Prius had some occasional oscillator issues that would mess with the smart key system.�
Dec 28, 2012
Norbert Yes, good point, however then it wouldn't be the door or the handles, and not solved by exchanging or aligning them. Or it could be the software processing the proximity sensor's input.�
Dec 28, 2012
AnOutsider Or both. Still no response from "service". I'd hoped to get the alignment today for this weekend's holiday travels.�
Dec 28, 2012
Norbert Not meant as an excuse, but they are probably very busy right now (deliveries etc). Hope they will soon be able (financially and otherwise) to hire more people in a few areas.�
Dec 28, 2012
dennis McLaren added key fob sequences for opening each door. They also replaced the sensors for MY2013 with buttons because of the wet weather issues. So their "cool door opening feature" has been replaced with someting more practical. Hint?�
Dec 28, 2012
tezco Maybe the car is afraid to be left alone at Walmart.....�
Dec 28, 2012
efusco Just got v4.1 (1.19.31) today, and just saw a new warning for the first time today.
2012-12-28 20.19.47 by efusco, on Flickr
Of note the OAT was about 32F and there were no 'dashed lines' on the kW readout on the dash which I've seen several times before in cold weather...so I was seeing max regen and max acceleration capability. Had been driving for about 25 minutes straight at the time this popped up, so the battery should have been as warm as it was going to get.�
Dec 28, 2012
Doug_G Yeah I had that pop also, immediately after upgrading to 1.19.29. I've seen it twice, but it hasn't continued to nag me.
I'm kinda hoping it will use AC power to heat if plugged in...�
Dec 29, 2012
Brian H @EVan:
The .29 software confusing outside temp with battery temp?�
Dec 29, 2012
montgom626 I expect it will only use grid power if the battery is in jeopardy.�
Dec 29, 2012
efusco Maybe, but I have .31�
Dec 29, 2012
dflye Backup camera obscured on rainy day
Driving around in a light rain this morning with the rear camera on, for most of the drive at various speeds the view was greatly obfuscated by water drops on the camera lens.
Has anyone tried Rain-x or similar to try and reduce the beads of water that gather on the lens?
While I'm sure the drops look tiny in real life, they look huge on the touchscreen display and seems like one fat drop can obscure the majority of the view!�
Dec 29, 2012
Francis Lau I have experienced this well but have not tried to apply anything. I found that it sometimes clears up after driving. An idea is maybe tesla in future car versions can add the ability to remotely puff compressed air to clear it. Or micro wipers?�
Dec 29, 2012
Zextraterrestrial I tried rainX on my camera but it did nothing as far as I can tell�
Dec 29, 2012
efxjim Last night My S decided it liked my J1772 adaptor and refused to release it. It then shut down all the screens. Called Tesla they had me remove the fuse and try a reboot. Booted up but then shut down after 30 sec with a service is needed warning. After 15 min it would wake up and shut down again in the same 30 sec when I approached with the key. Service showed up this morning said it is a known problem and removed the back of the charge port and got it to release the adapter. If the small multi pin connector is removed from the bottom of the assembly the car will restart (after a 10min time out) and drive. It however will not charge till the port is replaced and is re linked (coded) with new software. So replace on Monday if in stock and re-code or on Wednesday (closed on New Years Day) if parts not local. I miss the car already! Guess i'ts time to pay attention to the roadster:wink:�
Dec 29, 2012
MikeK Hmmm. I wonder how common a "known problem" that is. It would be a pretty big bummer to use charging someplace and end up stranded.�
Dec 29, 2012
JRP3 It has come up before, don't know how common it is: Stuck charge cord�
Dec 29, 2012
lolachampcar sounds like the same thing that happened to the mag reviewer......�
Dec 29, 2012
bigsmooth125 Not every glitch related to this new car should be considered reasonable though. Though the car possesses some very new technologies, the door handles, as many have stated, seem to be unnecessarily complex and glitchy. As early adopters, everyone buying this car is looking forward to and willing to accept an element of adventure but everyone also has different tolerance levels.�
Dec 29, 2012
Chgd Up Unlocked the car, and the rear passenger window went all the way down and both passenger side handles would no longer come out. We were able to open the doors from inside and close the window but afterwards windows wouldn't open or doors from outside. Tried some of the more obvious, locked and unlocked a couple of times and a main console reset which had corrected an earlier quirky driver side rear door handle, but no luck.
Tesla experience said the software update rolling out now may resolve the problem and they will try to preferentially roll it out. They recommended parking in an area with good 3G to get the download, unfortunately no AT&T 3G at home so will have to park it somewhere with good reception for a few hours and see if it loads.�
Dec 29, 2012
walla2 I'm on 4.1 and today I had my turn signal and seat belt sounds disappear. Had to reboot to get them back. I tested signals and they were still working and the seat belt light was lit when unbuckled but the sound was gone. Also, my front and rear truck controls were disabled on the controls screen. I could open them with the key fob but not with the screen. The buttons were greyed out. Charge, lock, and unlock were still working. Didn't see these things reported yet but a screen reboot seemed to fix it all FYI.
Just wondering, have others been contacting Tesla everytime something like this happens so they are aware? Are some of you just posting here?�
Dec 29, 2012
dsm363 I usually e-mail the ownership team if it's something I haven't seen posted before that I don't know about. For something like the 'washer fluid' warning with v4.0 that I knew many people had already reported, I didn't e-mail them.�
Dec 29, 2012
rcc Are you running 4.0 or 4.1?�
Dec 30, 2012
wycolo Report from TESLA High Altitude Test Station (unofficial): Elevation = 7400ft Latitude = 41.2*N:
We have taken a couple days off (finally blue skies, warm sun!) to catch up with firewood. Actively sweeping snow & ice off the Roadster & ModelS whenever possible to avoid freeze-up problems.
Comments:
> Makes me wonder if it would be helpful to have something like a 12V-operated hairdryer (or maybe an infrared device), and use it to unfreeze various things that might get frozen? [Norbert]
@14*F doing this would have depleted the 12v batt trying to do the impossible. Portable blowtorch??
> I wonder if applying RainX to the glass and some silicone to the seals would help prevent this? [JRP3]
Excellent! In the past I would never really care if the driver's window was frozen shut. My commute was 200 mi south so that would take care of itself eventually. Or just park facing the sun at the first opportunity. But I *did* take pains to annually wipe the door seals with silicone fluid so the doors would not freeze shut. This solved that issue.
I did not want silicone smearing the whole driver's window as it was opened & closed on the shiny new S. But thinking about it now, it seems unlikely I will ever really need to open this window at all during cold weather. So why not lay a thick dousing of silicone spray along the window seal and move the window up an inch or so to work it into the seal surface. This should at least make clearing ice & freeing up the seal that much easier. Might even solve this whole problem.
TM could possibly choose a 'greasier' type of rubber for that window seal. My driver's window froze up on the following day again, this time with no ice visible anywhere on the entire door. When I opened the door the glass snapped past the chrome but could not drop down the 1/2 inch. I tried using the motor but it was stuck. Spent a minute or so inside playing with the screen, then discovered that the window had popped down silently all by itself. So now I could close the door. So there was enough moisture remaining in the seal to refreeze overnight. More reason to keep this seal soaked with silicone.
> For what it's worth, my Dad's BMW 850i would do this as well, for example if the 12V battery ran down. The 850 window was definitely designed to allow the door to open even if the window didn't go down, and it would hit the plastic trim around the window when the door closed. I suspect it's not an uncommon problem with frameless doors. [MikeK]
But it would allow the door to be closed without damage, right? The S door CANNOT BE CLOSED unless the glass can drop that crucial 1/2 inch! I can imagine an S owner off on a cig/booze run just bungeeing the driver's door 'closed' and making do. Hey, first things first!
> The tech guys at the service center and corporate I've spoken to just shake their heads at the extending handles. All they say is "Elon gets what Elon wants". I'm sure every engineer at Tesla has said the extending handles are just a fiasco waiting to happen. They are an overly complicated solution to a simple problem. Just look at those automated seatbelts that many cars had in the 90's. All of those went away too because it just added unneeded complexity. [DrComputer]
I've got one here- '90 Mitsu Coupe- I look at that seatbelt creature with fear. Probably replace it with a racing harness (if I ever manage to put the replacement engine in).
> In general, I think the door handles are "cool" (my kids absolutely love them) and a unique feature of the car, but I do worry about the long term reliability of the handles and the entire electronic door latching mechanism. [PureAmps]
My '01 Malibu Chevy has a *kids safety* back door lock-out switch that is semi-hidden away somewhere. Might be good to include on the S so the rear doors NEVER EVER open when car is in motion. NTSC requirement??
> the past several days have been rain during the day and freezing overnight. [Robert.Boston]
Time to soak the Tesla door/window seals with silicone or WD40.
> The Prius had some occasional oscillator issues that would mess with the smart key system. [efusco]
Now Toyota can dispatch a dozen engineers to focus on new issues that come up. TM cannot afford this. That is why I chose the NON-TECH Package, naively thinking it might yield a simple reliable proven KEY like the Roadster. No such luck.
> I stood in the parking lot of Walmart . . . . naturally there were onlookers. [AnOutsider]
1. You could carry camera as you climb out & instantly become a bystander oogling & photographing.
2. Never show perplexion or fear, adopt a general inspection mode: wheels, doors, screen, etc while returning obliquely to your aspect of concern. They need never know.
> Not every glitch related to this new car should be considered reasonable though. Though the car possesses some very new technologies, the door handles, as many have stated, seem to be unnecessarily complex and glitchy. As early adopters, everyone buying this car is looking forward to and willing to accept an element of adventure but everyone also has different tolerance levels. [bigsmooth125]
+1. When your module is on the Moon's surface you don't want *any* subsystems that rely on quickie Ranger visits from down the road in Menlo Park.
--�
Dec 30, 2012
jerry33 It's hard for me to imagine any Model S owner even using those products.�
Dec 30, 2012
Matt_D I had this issue once, but wasn't following the right procedure. The car must be unlocked and the chargepoint must be on to disconnect. Works like a champ now.
That aside, all issues should be reported to ownership experience. I suggested changes to the j1772 procedure to make them more intuitive. I've had one major issue, and their response was amazing. It's essential we all report these issues so engineering can prioritize them.�
Dec 30, 2012
MikeK On the 850, when you closed the door if the battery was run down, it made a terrible "clank" noise and the window was pushed outwards by contact with the surrounding frame. It didn't damage anything, but the window wouldn't seal.�
Dec 30, 2012
GDH Who wouldn't be, it's a scary place.�
Dec 30, 2012
JRP3 Frankly I'm not really sure why they would design a window that has to be lowered to close the door. Certainly plenty of frame less doors don't have that "feature". If you don't want to use silicone you could use Teflon grease.�
Dec 30, 2012
jerry33 My guess is that over time it will provide a better seal (less wind noise) than many frameless doors.�
Dec 30, 2012
mknox Actually, a lot of cars with frameless windows have the window drop 1/4" or so when the door is opened/closed. Noticed this on a rental Dodge Challenger a few months ago.�
Dec 30, 2012
kevincwelch Could someone kindly explain why the window needs to be lowered in these situations to open or close the door? I'm trying to figure out this problem. My wife's outback has a frameless window and I've never noticed an issue on her car.
Sent via Tapatalk.�
Dec 30, 2012
montgom626 All the frameless windows have this feature AFAIK.�
Dec 30, 2012
MikeK It allows there to be a groove at the top of the frame that the window seats in when the door is closed, giving a tight seal. In order for this groove to work, you have to lower the window when the door is open, then slide the window up into the groove when the door closes.�
Dec 30, 2012
FlasherZ You mean "modern" frameless windows.�
Dec 30, 2012
montgom626 Last 10-15 years only. ;-)
- - - Updated - - -
BTW, I will take that POS 65 GTO off your hands.�
Dec 30, 2012
Norbert It wouldn't deplete the 12V battery at least in those cases where you are connected to a charger, I hope. But, of course, impossible is impossible. (Pre-)Heating the cabin does unfreeze things, doesn't it? Haven't been in freezing temperatures for a long time....�
Dec 30, 2012
strider Not even all "modern" cars. The C5 Corvette (2004) didn't have this feature and at high speed the windows would flex outwards and cause some wicked noise. The C6 works like the Model S. As Kevin mentioned some cars still don't do this. It's only a problem at very high speeds (100+ mph) so it's not necessary in something like an Outback.�
Dec 30, 2012
dtich i'm very happy they designed the windows as they have, i've had no trouble with them. and i'm constantly surprised that the car is as quiet at 110 mph as it is at 60. kinda crazy.�
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