Thứ Ba, 1 tháng 11, 2016

Model S Delivery Dates and Sequencing part 15

  • Aug 27, 2015
    MsElectric
    My take is that the 2014 P85/P85+ cars have to be priced in the $70Ks for them to see any movement in those cars.

    Recently we've had at least two CPO 85D vehicles sold. One for $81K and the other for $77K.

    IMHO no 2014 P85/P85+ without Autopilot or AWD is worth more than $80K when you can get a 2015 85D CPO for around $80K.
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  • Aug 27, 2015
    hashraf
    There are bunch of p85+ in low 70s and several p85 in 60s but they are not moving. Only movement has been on low 60s p85.
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  • Aug 27, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Or maybe everyone is on the sidelines waiting for more AP options :)
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  • Aug 27, 2015
    Cowby
    Darn....the two I was following got snatched....guess there's still more buyers unwilling to wait it out....there goes my guesstimates....sigh
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  • Aug 27, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Are you sure they weren't moved to 'hidden'?
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  • Aug 27, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Is it me or i am starting to expect lower prices on the model s. The longer i wait the less i feel the urge to get one. Honestly if tesla priced it right to begin with i would be driving one right now. Now however i am waiting it out to see how low these can go.
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  • Aug 27, 2015
    sitter_k
    Personally im waiting for more D options, as are in the north.
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    Cowby
    i wish! alas no, they were bought.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ditto this!
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    MsElectric
    Yes but the cars with the lower prices might not be the "right cars" for the people looking to buy. If they really want to move CPO inventory, they need to price their entire CPO inventory with realistic pricing, not just a handful of cars.

    They might be "testing the waters" with lower prices on some cars but this is pointless and let me explain why...

    I have very specific interior and exterior color preferences. I absolutely hate black interiors so the interior color needs to be tan and I also prefer lighter exterior colors. I also only like Obeche wood. Just for the heck of it, I looked up all available 2014 P85 cars in the CPO inventory and I basically found only 1 or two cars that meet my color and option preferences. So If I were looking to buy a car even if I saw black car with a black interior at $50K I still would not buy it as that's not the color combination I like.

    Given that some buyers may have exacting preferences when they get serious about moving the CPO inventory they should come up with realistic pricing for the entire inventory. I also predict that few if any will pay much of a premium at all for the plus version of a P85 given that the acceleration is the same. Their entire 2014 P85/P85+ inventory needs to be priced below $80 as that's how much you can buy a 2015 CPO 85D for.
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    Cowby

    +1 on this too! I feel we're all shouting the same thing, but no one is listening?
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    DCAC
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    Cyclone
    I don't quite understand the logic here. All cars except certain collector ones are depreciating assets, with the Model S being NO exception. As such, the longer you wait, the cheaper it will be when looking at 2012-2014 models. If you are expecting that in the middle of 2016 for a early 2016 Model S to be cheaper than the 2015's we are seeing now, I doubt you will find what you are looking for. But you will definitely find 2012-2014 models cheaper than they are now.
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    taurusking
    I think there will be a big price drop on inventory MS and also 2012-2014 ones when MX is released to the public
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    No i am not expecting those recently released to drop in price. But considering everything, the model s are way over priced when it was repeased and still is now. If tesla lets the free market determine the price of their cars i suspect they will be lower. It is really their buyback guarantee that is throwing the wrench into the system. They cant be selling at a major loss, so hence why the high prices. Eventually i think this sytem will crack and they will have to abandon the price fixing scheme and let it move much closer to the free market value of these cars.
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    Drucifer
    I think there are a lot of buyers on the sidelines who would buy/lease a new Volt or other car, that would try to find $10k to get into a used Tesla in the low 50s or certainly high 40s. I mean A LOT of buyers. I don't expect to see a decent, used Model S to have too many examples sold below the mid 40s until the Model 3 comes out.

    Model X may add to the stock of used Model S available, but my belief is that most Model X buyers will be "in addition to" not "instead of" Model S. To sell the extra used Model S coming to market will have a price drop, but not as dramatic as some people here hope.

    My .02
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    MsElectric
    I was just about to post this same sentiment. I think they are trying to see if they can control pricing but they will figure out soon enough that for used cars it is the market that sets pricing. Part of the issue here is their set pricing policy that prevents a customer from making a reasonable offer. Fixed pricing works great when the pricing makes sense but not when part of the inventory is overpriced. What's happening now is too obvious for them to not realize so I think once the X ships there will be substantial price adjustments.
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    Cyclone
    Ok, this logic makes much more sense to me than "prices as I wait keep coming down, so I should wait longer". The latter is akin to the argument that "Tesla keeps making updates to the Model S, so I should keep waiting to get the better version" when it continues to update. Feeling that the current setup of fixed pricing is overpriced across the fleet and that you feel Tesla will soon need to fleet-wide, adjust to make them more competitive is a different argument that my first sentence here.

    Thank you for the clarification!


    BTW, while I don't disagree with you, I could totally see Tesla getting the non-AP cars out, but then picking AP CPOs for internal use, such as loaners. I expect test drive cars to continue to be the "latest and greatest", but I can totally imagine using the AP CPOs internally as part of their "scheme" to keep prices inflated.
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Also realize that there could be another wave of non-AP cars added to the CPO fleet as people who didn't trade-up to the "D" models now are trading up to the MX.
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    MsElectric
    Good point. All the more reason for them to move the current inventory, unless of course they don't really want to sell their CPO cars and like to hold onto their babies :)
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    Twiglett
    we are thinking similarly. We found the current S too big for our regular needs and don't really want to spend that much on a car.
    The 3 sounds much more suitable, but as the prices of CPO cars continues to drop it makes both of us look again.
    Looking this morning and there were only 3 S60's below 70K, everything else was S85 or P85, its almost like that lack of 60's as an entry point is depressing the prices for the other models.
    But the bottom line is that if the prices continue to fall in this way we will end up with an S85 instead of a "3"
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    MsElectric
    Or rather the S60s should be been sold for the $40Ks. In fact a bunch of people have bought S60s as CPO cars by inquiring about the cars directly from Tesla as they seem to have CPO cars at better prices in their internal inventory that is not listed in the public inventory. With the release of the RWD S70, it makes no sense to pay more than $55K for an S60.
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  • Aug 28, 2015
    Twiglett
    that too :)
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  • Aug 30, 2015
    hashraf
    I called Tesla central number to chat about handling differences between P85+, 85D and P85D ( with 21 wheels on each of them). Per the rep, 85D and P85D have same suspension and handle exactly the same. I still don't buy that. Also per him, P85+ has the best handling despite it being not AWD as the plus package tweaks didn't entirely get carried to the Ds. So while the Ds are AWD and have great handling, per him P85+ has the best handling of all. Not sure if any of this is true.
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  • Aug 30, 2015
    Cyclone
    All of it sound true. After March or April 2015, the P85D uses the same suspension as the 85D. Prior to that, the P85D used the suspension from the P85+. Now performance, the P85D will beat all three, but the P85+ suspension on a P85+ or early P85D will have the best handling. Now, how hard you can push the suspension because of the performance and the handling by having 4 planted wheels may eek out the P85D, but looking at suspension by itself, the P85+ and easy P85D are the tops.
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  • Aug 30, 2015
    hashraf
    I was trying to understand whether a CPO'd 85D (if it shows up) or a CPO'd P85+ would be better for me to purchase. Since 85D and P85+ have same acceleration but P85+ has better handling, it may not make sense to fork extra dollars or even same dollars to get 85D (ignoring mileage and options differences).
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  • Aug 30, 2015
    freeewilly
    Not sure where you get the information, but I believe anything with a "D" will have better handling.
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  • Aug 30, 2015
    hashraf
    The tesla central line that shows up on CPO website. I am not saying I believe what their rep told me just relaying what he told me and getting reactions from people on this forum in case they have done real comparisons.
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  • Aug 30, 2015
    MsElectric
    This is so subjective and it means almost nothing as what matters is how you feel and your comfort level.

    I have driven the P85+ but I really prefer the handling of an 85D as being a non race car driver I feel a lot more comfortable with the handling of the AWD 85D. I felt the 85D will pull me out and away from a bad situation that a RWD car might not be able to (because I'm not an expert in handling RWD cars). Someone more adapt at handling RWD cars might feel very differently. If you are an average driver who likes to go fast and occasionally likes to throw your car into corners, AWD will offer a margin of safety and forgiveness than a RWD will not. For the same reason RWD enthusiasts prefer the handling of RWD cars as for them that is more fun.

    Just take all 3 out of test drives and draw your own conclusions based on your driving experience and preferences. I think they are all great cars with different attributes for different folks.
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  • Aug 31, 2015
    max35111
    Hey guys, out of curiosity, can you get leasing with guaranteed resale value when you buy a cpo car?
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  • Aug 31, 2015
    MsElectric
    A standard lease offers you guaranteed resale value as at the end of the lease you turn over the car at an agreed upon value. But in this case note that you are not "buying" a CPO car but leasing it. I am not aware of any standard leases for CPO cars but you could get an open ended lease, also known as a TRAC lease, for a CPO car. However for a TRAC Lease, the resale value at the end of the lease period is not guaranteed. So for CPO cars I am not aware of any way to lease with a resale value guarantee. IMHO you don't need it as you can do your own math and figure that out and build that value into a TRAC lease.
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  • Aug 31, 2015
    HankLloydRight
  • Aug 31, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Looks like Tesla is not putting new CPO cars on the website for a while now. Last one was August 26th. Unless they are doing 1 a day and everyone is snatching that one up right away. Any ideas? Before they would at least remove some and post them back to make it look like they are new on the CPO website, but now it seems they are lazy or revamping the website or something else. Or, dare I say, lack of demand?
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  • Aug 31, 2015
    jtpassat
  • Aug 31, 2015
    DiamondDave
    The 5 new listings today are the first in about a week. Overall there are about 50 fewer CPOs than there were last week. And the prices of the CPOs that remain seem to be higher - only 2 P85s under $69k. One of those has more than 42k miles and the other is an early VIN number with no Pano. This is not the trend I've been hoping for.
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  • Aug 31, 2015
    MsElectric
    Just be patient. It seems a large portion of the CPO inventory is way overpriced and consequently few are buying. They keep playing this game where they remove a bunch of cars, adjust the price a bit, and put those cars back on the inventory but still with prices that make little sense. They've been doing this now for months and their inventory keeps depreciating in the meantime. There are few cars in the current CPO inventory that make any sense purchasing.

    If you are serious about a CPO car I think your bets bet is to call them, give your price considerations, and see what they have to offer.

    IMHO this whole experience will be much better for Tesla and their customers if they would just list their entire inventory and price everything they sell at a realistic price rather than this musical chairs dance they do with moving cars in and out of the inventory.
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  • Aug 31, 2015
    sitter_k
    I feel like i'm at a close out sale. First almost fully stocked little to no discount then then moving towards the end nothing but crap big discounts
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  • Sep 1, 2015
    DCAC
  • Sep 1, 2015
    MsElectric
    That is a ton of miles... The price would have been fair if it had about half that many miles.
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  • Sep 1, 2015
    spentan
    Considering that they're giving you a 4yr 50k mile warranty on top of what it already has, that kinda gives you faith in the company.
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  • Sep 1, 2015
    taurusking
    Are there any CPO with auto pilot hardware? If so in what price range?
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  • Sep 1, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    May I suggest: http://ev-cpo.com ??
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  • Sep 1, 2015
    MsElectric
    If you want a CPO with autopilot at a reasonable price, wait for the Model X to come out. Right now there are 2 P85Ds for around $110K. If you are looking for something less there are a few inventory S60s with Autopilot but those are not especially attractive deals and you are better off buying a new 70 with Autopilot.

    Basically very slim pickings.
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  • Sep 1, 2015
    tga
  • Sep 1, 2015
    taurusking
    Yeah I am thinking the same too...
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  • Sep 2, 2015
    brantse
    After having my CPO for just over 2 weeks, my car gave me a notification that the 12V battery needs replaced (there are plenty of threads discussing this issue). I called up the Cleveland Service Center on Monday and was scheduled with a "Ranger" appointment today. I'm almost 2 hours from Pittsburgh and 3 hours from a Service Center. The Ranger (David Stella) just finished up and took care of a few other issues, including failing adhesive on my charge port door's magnet (he just replaced the door) and a few other nitpick items. I cannot reiterate that the service Tesla provides is second to none. I really am amazed.
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  • Sep 2, 2015
    BoerumHill
    What was the damage for Ranger service? Zero dollars?
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  • Sep 2, 2015
    brantse
    Yes, absolutely no mention of a fee.
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  • Sep 2, 2015
    FlatSix911
  • Sep 2, 2015
    Wshowell
    thats a CPO so no "EV incentives" or at least none here in CA where any incentives are for new vehicles (which inventory would be but not CPO) only. I do know that CO has EV Incentives even for used vehicles not registered previously in CO. Maybe other states do as well. Lucky ducks!
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  • Sep 2, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    I dont know about you guys but now that the model x is out. I am leaning towards getting the base model x. It seems like such a nice car. These cpo needs to have a major drop in price now before i am going to get one over a new model x. My 2cent
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  • Sep 3, 2015
    MsElectric
    Same could be said about a base Model S. IMHO at the current CPO prices you are much better off buying a new car. If you decide to go the MX route, just realize you may not get your car until March/April or later of next year and by then, the CPO pricing might be more realistic. The Model X is phenomenal but I still prefer the MS. If you are looking for a "deal," I'm not sure how the MX is going to help you because it will be more expensive than a MS, albeit not by that much.
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  • Sep 3, 2015
    jtpassat
    apples to oranges. the estimates for a base Model X is anywhere from 90-100k. if you have that much cash to spend, you're not looking at a CPO to begin with.

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  • Sep 3, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Actually base is around 75K or so. Musk saying it's like 5K more than base Model S because of bigger car. Maybe 80K if you comparing to 70D. Some people were showing the breakdown of the Model X signature version and it shows like 70K or so base without any options. Factor in Tax credit in CA and you are looking at around 65K or 70K for the base Model X new.
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  • Sep 3, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    I'm in the same boat as No2DinosaurFuel.

    I have a reservation for the X but am also considering new, inventory and CPO. I have the cash to buy new but if the right CPO came along, I would jump at the opportunity. Many of us have been watching the CPO Consolidator for months and there have only been a few D models up for sale. I've been driving a CR-V for 18 years and appreciate the higher driving position that the X would offer. However, the CR-V is still running fine and I have room in the newly expanded garage to house a 4th vehicle so I would consider buying an S and just keeping the CR-V for trips to Home Depot and the dog park.

    I'm waiting for the official X reveal to see if there are any more bells and whistles that will be included. I'm also curious to see if they will be offered on the S any time soon. If so, then I would probably change my X reservation to a new S order. If there are no announcements about the S getting the upgrades then I'll probably wait a couple more months for a good CPO/inventory. If one doesn't show up, I'll go through with the original plan to buy an X or perhaps in a few months they will have announced new features for the S as well. I'm not in any hurry and want to get the most bang for the buck, whether it be a new X, a new S or a CPO/inventory S. ?

    BTW, Colorado has a $6000 tax credit for EVs...and it can be used on both new and used vehicles...so yet another reason why I am considering both new and CPO/inventory.
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  • Sep 3, 2015
    Cowby
    Count me in this boat as well now (have reservation for MX now)....just haven't seen anything attractive enough for me to jump on CPO cars.
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  • Sep 3, 2015
    jtpassat
    thanks everyone for making me the only poor bastard in this forum :cursing::biggrin:


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  • Sep 3, 2015
    brantse
    Believe me, you weren't the only one. Hang in there, I think there will be some deals on used S60's that will rival the model 3 pricing.
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  • Sep 3, 2015
    austintexas
    So what do you think a fair residual is on these CPOs?

    For example, I'm looking at a car that's not yet 2 years old, has about 20k miles. They're asking 70% of the original sales price, although if you consider buying this new gets you the EV tax credit it's more like 78% of the new cost.

    Does that seem reasonable?
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  • Sep 3, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Build date & mileage? I presume this is like around P18XXX-P24XXX VIN?
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  • Sep 3, 2015
    austintexas

    Yeah, toward the latter.
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    jtpassat
    I'm just waiting for a base 85D for 65k. That should show up sometime next year.

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  • Sep 4, 2015
    MsElectric
    You'll see that next year.

    One 85D sold for $81K and another for $77K and neither were base. If you wait one year that is about $15,000 of depreciation and an 85D will be right where you want it to be.
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    Jo-
    I am purchasing the next sub 50K MS with RFS. No idea how long I'll wait- maybe tomorrow or maybe next summer...
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    jtpassat
    here's to patience... :biggrin: easier said than done.

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  • Sep 4, 2015
    DCAC
    I have the exact same requirements.
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    BoerumHill
    46 CPO cars moved to the sold section this week, 14 of those above $80K. Handful in the $90-$110K range. Inventory is down to 257, lowest I can remember it being in quite some time.
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    MsElectric
    But did they all really sell or did they just take them off the CPO inventory? Apart from RWD enthusiasts not sure why anyone would pay over $80K for a RWD CPO Model S when we are just around the corner to seeing CPO 85Ds around $80K with Autopilot and AWD.
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    DCAC
    Yes I wonder how many are bulk removals, not sales? The last big bulk removal seems to be 8/27. Otherwise the only thing suspicious are the small groups removed at 00:15~18 most days.
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    It is only to get easier as time goes because of all the new cars coming out and realizing these cars are not as desirable as it once was. This is my experience.
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    Cowby

    I'LL RACE Y'ALL TO IT!:tongue:
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    Jo-
    Oh, great...haha
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    hashraf
    I am looking at a 2013 P85+ from a private seller. The car was in an accident and had some structural damage (driver side) and airbags were deployed. The car was fully fixed by Tesla certified body shop and has a clean title. I have heard Tesla (certified shops) replaces all the impacted structures in entirety so one would think the car is back to normal. I have not driven the car yet and will obviously drive before buying but I may not know everything through a short drive. The listed price by the seller is a $69K with 26K miles on a ~$115K MSRP car so I would say it is about $3-5K below similar spec cars on Tesla's CPO website (~73-74K). I also save about ~6% in sales taxes given it's a private sale (yes no sales tax in my state for pvt party). I have not tried to negotiate with the seller yet but want to get feedback from the experts here on couple things:

    1. Does anyone know if Tesla certified shop has fully repaired the damage by replacing all the impacted structures, is there much to worry about given that the car has a clean title?
    2. If I were to negotiate this to say ~$65K price (~5-7% below KBB) is it a fair deal? After taxes that would be about 13-14K savings vs buying from Tesla. I will only get the remainder 2 year warranty vs 4 yr warranty on a CPO and a car with accident history.
    3. What if the seller doesn't come down on price? Does it seem to be a good deal at 69K plus no sales taxes (and only 2 year warranty)?

    Thoughts? I plan on keeping the car for 2-4 years (may get extended warranty for $4K if I decide to keep it for more than 2 years)
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  • Sep 4, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Presumably that's what they sold this week. Removed from the CPO Inventory is captured by the CPOC as Hidden.

    The bulk removals last month didn't show up in the premium historical / sold section. In 4-1/2 months have we ever seen a car show up in sold and later resurface elsewhere? Probably 1-2 that presumably didn't qualify for financing or refused delivery.

    Up to 52 sold for the week (M-F), 57 since Sunday (Su-F).


    • Over 110K - 1
    • 90K - 109.9K - 3
    • 85K - 89.9K - 5
    • 80K - 85.9K - 8

    17/57 = 29.8%. People are buying Model S CPO cars above $80K despite the fact their CPO program isn't as awesome as Mercedes. Crazy kids - don't they know 15 month old cars are obsolete?

    2 Ds in there - 1 P85D for the top price, and 1 85D for $89.4K. Those were the only two autopilot (if that's your thing.)
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  • Sep 5, 2015
    MsElectric
    I personally would never consider paying that much money for a used car that has been in a major accident. No Way. If I were to consider such a car, it better come with a huge discount and this car does not. I also would not want to own a Tesla out of warranty and the fact that you only have 2 years of full warranty left is a big deal. Also keep in mind that the current CPO inventory seems to be a bit overpriced and is due for a price correction, especially when the Ds are added to the CPO inventory.

    Even if you may not care much about the accident damage, if you try to sell this car 3/4 years from now, you might have a hard time selling it, as you'll be competing with cars with no such past damage.

    If it were me, I would only buy that car with an extended warranty. Note that if you are not the original owner, I don't think you can pay to add the Extended warranty to the car. My advice is offer a figure in the low $60Ks as long as the seller pays to have the warranty extended.

    If the seller does not come down on the price or refuses your offer, I'd consider that a plus as if you can be patient for 2-3 months you will likely find a non accident damaged car at a lower price.

    And finally I personally don't see much of a benefit with the "+" package, especially if you are trying to save money. Realize that a P85 plus is not any more faster than a P85. You are basically paying for the enhanced suspension/handling as well as the staggered 21" wheels but make sure you understand both the positives and the drawbacks that come with that setup. There's nothing wrong with going for the plus package as long as you know that's what you really want.

    If I were you, I'd rather buy a car like this:

    http://www.teslamotors.com/models/preowned/P09596

    Or better year wait a bit longer for a price adjustment :)
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  • Sep 5, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    If you want true "Sport Sedan" handling like BMW M5, go for the P85+. If you don't care and just want a nice ride, go for the P85.
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  • Sep 5, 2015
    mrjedistud
    Hash,
    I wouldn't do it. As others have said, it doesn't have a large enough discount and does not have the CPO extended warranty. FYI, I was eyeing a P85+ directly from Tesla, well equipped for $63,000 but did not have CPO status, just being sold as used. The car had 1 accident but 2 separate repairs. I think that Tesla eventually certified it and upped the price to $73,000. At $63,000 I was still not willing to do it.

    Be patient (like me), one will eventually come around at the price you want.
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  • Sep 5, 2015
    freeewilly
    If you really want to buy a CPO and still can't find one on Tesla website, why don't you contact Brent Seavey, tell him the price, color, and must have options, let him find one for you. I spent way too much time (10+ times a day) on CPO website for last few months, and Brent was able to find me a few CPO in 3 days. I know if I didn't contact him, I will still be searching for one today, instead I have a beautiful white Tesla MS parking in my garage. As long as Tesla wants to maintain the image of high resale value, it will be hard to find a great deal on their website. If you are ready to buy a CPO, contact Brent Seavey or any sales specialist in your local area.

    My local sales rep is not willing to find me a CPO off their website, he didn't say no, just told me to keep looking on CPO site, and contact him when I find one, so he can help me to secure it. I'm glad I learned about Brent from this forum.
    [FONT=Calibri,sans-serif][email�protected][/FONT]
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  • Sep 5, 2015
    clarkbariowa
    Brent has two new deals! The 85 is a good deal. You can contact him if interested. [email�protected]


    20118 miles, $60500. Does not include High Power Wall Connector.

    85
    Green Metallic
    Tan
    19 inch tires
    tech
    pano
    sc
    twin charger
    obeche wood


    Here is the deal of the week:

    Only 9100 miles, $61000 and well equipped. Clean and well kept.

    60
    Silver Metallic
    grey nappa leather
    21 inch silver wheels
    pano
    sc
    obeche wood
    tech
    smart air
    paint armor
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  • Sep 6, 2015
    MsElectric
    At $61K that S60 is not such a great deal if you consider the fact that with about $10K in tax rebates you can get a RWD S70 for the mid $60Ks (Mid $70Ks retail wth options minus $10K in tax incentives) and the S70 will have autopilot, longer range, and better build quality with 4G Internet.

    For the mid/late $60Ks you can also look around and actually buy an inventory 70D which is a far better car to a RWD S60 ($82.5K sticker price with some nice options, minus $5K inventory discount, minus $10K in tax rebates puts you around $67.5K) for an essentially new 70D with autopilot, AWD, and a bunch of other goodies.

    This is the reason some of these CPO cars are such horrible values. There's hardly any meaningful discount over buying a new or inventory car.
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  • Sep 6, 2015
    Wshowell
    im in agreement here with MSELECTRIC (I usually do though...). That S60 is not really a good deal at all if you value the options like I do. In my mind: the pan roof is worth the $1500 they currently charge new even used/CPO, the smaller 60 battery deducts $5k from a similarly equipped S85, the larger wheels or nicer wheels are worth zero to me, the CF, Obeche interior is worth very little as well ($200 let's say), same for upgraded sound, air suspension (I fear future reliability for this option) and dual chargers (advantage is minuscule to me). As you can see, much of the valuation is personal preference and usually I end up concluding the best way for me to purchase is to buy a new 70 or an INV 70 and get just the options I truly want to pay for.

    Now, when Tesla has this very vehicle sub $45k, I'd be the first one to hit the buy button but the pricing is not very compelling based on the difference between a new one or going for all the gusto and buying one of the MANY older P85 s loaded to the gills with low mileage. When the X's start to roll out of Fremont, the lease returns start coming in and the Guaranteed Buy Backs get bight back, I'm confident significant price reductions will occur. For those of us saving up the cash and wearing down the spouses the stars will hopefully align, finally! If I'm wrong on any of those, it'll be a new kitchen and deck off the house and that just doesn't get me excited....
    �
  • Sep 6, 2015
    freeewilly
    Not everyone can get the full benefit of $7500 federal tax credit. I make okay salary, but I have 2 dependents, a few property taxes, and installed Solar panels this year (30% tax credit). With all the tax credits I will get, I won't be able to take full advantage of $7500.
    I started looking for new or demo MS, but learned if I get a used and factor in the discounts, it's better for me. It's all depends on our financial situation.
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  • Sep 6, 2015
    Wshowell
    Your situation is probably more the exception to the norm. Maybe slide your purchase into 2016 since you have the solar credit this year (congrats to you on that very smart move)? That's just a sneeze away... I think most buyers of new and CPO can probably take the full $7500 federal deduction and Tesla needs to price based on the factors of the majority of their current buyer population and how they make their decisions. I would think Model lll buyers that will shift with more folks paying fewer taxes and not maximizing the tax benefit, if it even exists by that time. It'd be smart for them to outright drop the fuzzy math of "after tax incentive" and "gas savings". I really dislike that angle, feels like the old "what do you mean you can't afford this? You cannot afford NOT to buy this..." Used car sales approach.
    �
  • Sep 6, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    The federal tax credit can't be claimed on CPO but should be available on most, if not all, inventory models.
    �
  • Sep 6, 2015
    Wshowell
    yes, maybe I can better phrase that. Most Potential Buyers of used/CPO will qualify for the $7500 tax credit if they elect to purchase a new or inventory vehicle. That's part of their decision matrix, not to imply that used/CPO buyers will get any tax subsidy. That is an exception in CO I understand assuming the used was never registered in CO a $6k new/used/CPO state tax break exists. MorrisonHiker can probably provide some confirmation assuming he/she lives in beautiful Morrison Co (we lived in Parker Co 1995-2002).
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  • Sep 6, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    That is correct about the $6000 state tax credit. I'm currently exploring my options and don't know if I'll be purchasing a new X, a new S or an inventory S...but no matter the choice I should be eligible for $13500 in tax credits.

    Yes, beautiful Morrison, Colorado. I think I have one of the best possible views of Red Rocks. [emoji41]
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  • Sep 6, 2015
    EVSteve

    Nope, I'm in the same position as him minus the children. Haven't paid federal taxes for the past 3 years due to the solar and geothermal HVAC I installed. At my rate of recovery the earliest I would be eligible for the $7,500 EV credit would be 2017. Personally I'd rather let others take the huge depreciation hit that we've seen every time something new gets released.
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    shadowinstallz
    If I didn't have an 85d I'd jump all over that 85k nicely optioned for $59k...surprised its still there
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    jtpassat
    it sold a few days ago and was just put back on 9/7. someone got cold feet.

    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    ModelSFL
    I suspect green isn't a popular color.
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    Mimzil
    I thought that green was regarded as one of the best colors? Either way, I wonder if whoever bought it turned it away upon inspection? It does have 39,000 miles on it.
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Based on previous CPOs, doesn't seem to be common
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    alwaysru
    I wish it was possible to purchase one of the Canadian ones and bring back to Texas. $52K US for this guy (S85, Pano, Tech Pkg): http://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/models/preowned/P27819 with only 28K miles is a TOTAL STEAL. A buddy of mine put down a payment on a different Canadian one on Friday but it turns out there are some weird tax issues so they won't bring it in.
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    goodbyebmw
    Hmm interesting observation. There's a P85+ in Vancouver for $66K USD and I think that's a total steal as well! Why is it that Canadian Teslas are considerably cheaper?
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    thgchris
    Website suggestion:

    Someone build something that tracks the sale prices of CPO's, mileage, options, battery etc so we can see some trend analysis on where prices are going? Obviously over time the older the car the lower the price but I'm really interested in what the prices were in April compared to what they are now in September.

    Guess I just haven't been watching enough yet to know what a good deal is.

    I think I'll wait for a D (or potentially buy new later on)
    �
  • Sep 7, 2015
    palmer_md

    I'm not sure if there is some sarcasm there, or just not knowing, but the main discussion in this thread is about the CPO consolidator which includes lots of great statistics for a small fee. Here is a link to a separate thread with support for his site, and includes links to it on the first posts.

    EV-CPO.com CPO Consolidator support thread
    �
  • Sep 8, 2015
    xveys
    The CPO websites in Europe are going live since yesterday.

    Would there be any plans to include the EU cars as well in the EV CPO consolidator?
    �
  • Sep 8, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    I'll definitely look into it today! Thanks.
    �
  • Sep 8, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    This is going to take some time, since each country has it's own website and native language, although the technology looks the same under the covers.

    Can people order/buy CPO cars across country borders in the EU, like we can do within the US? Will Tesla ship CPO cars like that to other countries? Since each country only has a handful (6 or less usually) CPO cars available in the entire country, I'm not sure EV-CPO can help that much, especially if a buyer can't buy from outside their country.
    �
  • Sep 8, 2015
    Mr X
    Does the $1,000 discount work on CPO cars?


    edit: nvm no lol
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    xveys
    Indeed, the offer is quite low at the moment.
    I know that for inventory cars, you can buy them from other EU countries and import them (this is without Norway and Switzerland). Delivery cost can then vary based on location. I imagine that for CPO cars they will use the same rules, but can't be sure right now.
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    jtpassat
  • Sep 9, 2015
    MsElectric
    That is because this is actually an Inventory car so it qualifies for tax rebates. As an Inventory car you get the added benefit of being able to buy an Extended Warranty on that car whereas for some strange reason they refuse to sell an extended warranty for CPO cars. The price is good but too bad it is badly optioned with no sunroof, no leather, and no air or sound.
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    jtpassat
    I know but Hank's site is suppose to recalculate and show the price of the car BEFORE the incentives.

    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    MsElectric
    Seems like there might have been a price change immediately after they listed that car because the price on Hank's site does not match the listed price with or without the incentives...
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    spectrablue
  • Sep 9, 2015
    Cowby
  • Sep 9, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Strange... TM might have changed their data format so EV-CPO is picking up the wrong price. Will investigate later today.
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    MsElectric
    Yikes you are sure you want to pay that kind of money for a P85+ when that is so close to the cost of a 2015 Inventory P85D?
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Seems like there is a 2013 p85+ with 39K miles as an inventory car. I guess tesla is in no hurry to rid themselves of these cars. Bad news for most of us who are waiting for a price drop.
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Why is your personal mission to belittle any purchase that's not a rock bottom, sub-$60K bargain?

    I pointed out to you a long time ago the rationale for pricing of the P85/P85+ CPO listings and you blithely ignored the basic math.

    You're perfectly content to apply basic depreciation factors to a 85D/P85D and project where prices will be.

    When I asked you to use that same basic math to 2014 cars that cost $112K-$126K new, you ignored my request and said "All I know is they should cost less."

    Tesla Model S CPO Website - Now Live - Page 182
    Tesla Model S CPO Website - Now Live - Page 182

    We get that YOU aren't going to pay a premium for a P85+, but I'd appreciate it if you'd stop being judgemental toward anyone who thinks these 12-18 month old cars are not obsolete.
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    AnOutsider
    Mod Note: Some posts edited and some moved to snippiness. It's fine to disagree, but let's try to keep direct personal attacks out of it.
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Fair enough, thanks.

    MsElectric - my apology for any offense taken. Not my intent to attack you or anyone; I just think the higher end listings are fairly priced using simple depreciation factors. That said, you make valid points that it's harder for TM to move those cars given the similar value offered by a new 85D with greater functionality.

    Forward.
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    MsElectric
    It is interesting that you removed my post in its entirety but left the post of the forum member who called me an animal intact by just only editing out that bit from his disparaging post. If you want to show any semblance of fairness, you may want to either restore my post that you censored or also remove the post by @BoerumHill in its entirety where he called me an animal.

    I did not make any personal attacks at @BoerumHill when I replied to his post but my post got removed in its entirety despite the fact that I was respectful. On the other hand @BoerumHill called me an animal and you only edited that bit out and left the rest of his post intact. How is that fair?

    When people talk about draconian censorship on TMC this is what they are talking about...
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Fair enough, but I did include a smiley as a notice of just friendly ribbing, no snippiness intended. :)
    �
  • Sep 9, 2015
    mmd
    Yes, amazing moderation!

    The depreciation based valuation works if prices are stable. If newer and better products are being sold at lower prices (for whatever reason), then from a buyer's point of view, one has to take the lowest of the choices available.
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  • Sep 9, 2015
    Cowby

    That's like asking someone to justify a P85+ over a P85(D)...you probably will never understand our rationale for having/making these kinds choices (I know, first world problems, lol)...it's like Hank mentioned when he commented on why someone is getting an M5 vs. a 5 series BMW...there's just that little bit of extra that some of us are willing to pay for, or why someone silly like me will go and drop 8k on some rims and then have to drop 2k every year on rubbers cause they only last around 8-10k miles per set....hmm, i didn't say i was smart did i?....:tongue:
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  • Sep 10, 2015
    Drucifer
    The price is where an actual transaction / sale occurs. If there is a price listed and the product does not sell in the marketplace in a reasonable time, then that is not a price, but just wishful thinking on the part of the wannabe seller.
    P85+ pricing has entered the zone of wishful thinking on the part of Tesla at this point, IMHO.
    �
  • Sep 10, 2015
    Cowby
    Amen to that! I've been tempted on more than one occasion to call them up and just offer a lower number...alas, i've been told they don't negotiate at all and are inflexible with pricing...even with CPO's.
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  • Sep 10, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Yup, the format changed slightly which caused the $7500 tax credit to be applied to Inventory cars (in my code, not theirs). It's now been fixed.
    �
  • Sep 10, 2015
    Jeffgtx
    I was told today by a Tesla Salesperson that any P85D inventory or CPO car is NOT eligible for the $5,000 Ludicrous mode upgrade. You had to be the owner of the car the day ludicrous mode was announced.
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