Thứ Ba, 1 tháng 11, 2016

Model S Delivery Dates and Sequencing part 16

  • Sep 11, 2015
    taurusking
    That is a bummer...IMHO all P85D's should be eligible for the $5000 Ludicrous mode upgrade
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    dhanson865
    Did they say it can't be installed at all or did they give you a higher price that would apply?
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    DougH
    The CPO cars are getting stagnant. They need to drop prices and add better cars.
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    DCAC
    If you're not looking for P85 or P85+, there are only 30 CPOs available in the USA. (plus 11 inventory S60)
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    max35111
    Question might have been asked already but can you get the federal diacount on inventory/demo cars? Thx!
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Yes since they aren't titled.
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    DougH
    Correction. "yes if they are NOT titled"

    Some inventory and demo cars have been titled. It's important to ask the sales people.
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    maxdrive10
    Will the demand and prices decrease for the CPOs once the X model hits the streets?
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    I really don't think that's true -- if Tesla is selling it as an "Inventory" car, they are untitled demo/loaner cars eligible for the federal tax credit (if your taxes allow it). If they've been titled by Tesla, they they'd be sold as CPO or just used.
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  • Sep 12, 2015
    Sm4llz
    For those in Colorado: I was told that to get the Federal Credit on an Inventory Model it also had to be under 1500 miles.
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  • Sep 13, 2015
    DougH
    I was thinking in the past. Before the CPO's started they did sell "Inventory" and or used cars that had been titled.
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  • Sep 13, 2015
    ahurst
    This is correct. CO law. Makes it tough to do anything but buy new n CO.
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  • Sep 13, 2015
    KJD
    Yes I would agree with this, they really should drop the price and move these cars into new homes where they belong. More owners = more exposure = more buyers.
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  • Sep 13, 2015
    FlatSix911
    I am the current owner of a Inventory Model S and want to ensure the correct information is posted regarding Inventory Cars.
    The car was available at a significant discount with only 50 miles, and received a $2,500 State rebate and $7,500 Federal rebate.

    Check with you local Delivery specialist for a complete list of inventory vehicles ... it's a no brainer compared to a CPO car IMHO.

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  • Sep 13, 2015
    mmd
    Are you sure about this? I'm thinking, how could the IRS law regarding the federal tax credit vary by state? Or are you talking about the CO state credit for EV?

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is a surprise, as your signature says 70D. It was introduced only recently; like 6 months ago.
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  • Sep 13, 2015
    Cyclone
    It doesn't. Colorado won't let a dealer sell an untitled "new" car with over 1,500 miles. Once it hits 1,500 miles, Tesla must title it in their own name or send it out to another state. Other states will allow any number of miles on a "new" car with a certificate of original.

    So in this case, a car with over 1,500 miles would have to be titled to the seller before it could be titled to the buyer. Since the federal tax credit only applies to the first titler, you essentially can only get it on a car with under 1,500 miles.
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  • Sep 13, 2015
    ev-soon
    Yep, as a CO resident I can confirm this. On the positive side we can get the state credit for an out-of-state pre-owned provided it's never been registered here.
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  • Sep 14, 2015
    Tamar
  • Sep 14, 2015
    Fanatic
    CPO is live in Europe at least in Sweden and Norway!
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  • Sep 14, 2015
    Cyclone
    You should mention it to Hank here: EV-CPO.com CPO Consolidator support thread - Page 13

    That said, he likely will see it here anyway. The consolidator may be accidentally adding in the Federal Incentive on a vehicle that wasn't incentive eligible. That said, the car doesn't even show up anymore, so Hank will have to answer it based on historical data on his site. He could have inadvertently done that (or Tesla subsequently changed formats again) from this fix:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yup, came up about 4 pages ago...
    I didn't see anyone answer Hank's subsequent question on whether you can buy the car in one EU country for use in another.
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  • Sep 14, 2015
    DougH
  • Sep 14, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    yeah, fix one bug, creates another. There were 6 CPO cars mistakenly had the $7500 credit applied. It's now fixed. Thanks.


    Exactly. If UE members can't cross ship cars, I don't think it makes sense to add less than 6 cars per country to the consolidator as you can see all 6 on the same page. But I might look into it if the numbers increase substantially.
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  • Sep 14, 2015
    clarkbariowa
  • Sep 15, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Lowest cost P85D I've seen and low mileage too with pretty good specs. If the original warranty is honored, I say it's a good deal for someone who is looking for a P85D. Otherwise, wait it out. More price cuts coming once the X comes out and the 90KWh battery becomes the default battery tesla uses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    More to come at even lower price!
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  • Sep 15, 2015
    Jeffgtx
  • Sep 15, 2015
    austintexas
    I'm not so sure. Looking at Hank's historical data, they seem to be selling several every day. Maybe more, but I'm assuming the ones listed for 20+ days might be removed for a price change.

    Will prices drop in the future? Of course, once people trade in for the X and newer versions. The question is how long you want to wait.

    My CPO should arrive in Austin next week.
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  • Sep 15, 2015
    DougH
    The one I posted sold today, I called to buy it.

    I talked to a Tesla salesperson today and they do not expect prices on the CPO site to come down that much. They are guessing mid next year when X starts delivering more prices might come down but that is way into next year.

    I sit and wait.
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  • Sep 15, 2015
    Jeffgtx
    Which one that you posted? At the Honda dealer?
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  • Sep 15, 2015
    DougH
    Yeah.

    It was the cheapest PD I could find.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    mmd
    To be fair, did you expect Tesla salesperson to say otherwise? I mean, if I were the seller, would I tell the buyer to try after 3 months when prices may be lower? Not saying that he won't be right, but just pointing out what is reasonable for a sales person to say.

    As FlatSix911 said above, compared to buying the CPO cars at those high listing prices on the CPO site, you might get a better deal on inventory cars near the end of the quarter. May be that's what Tesla is doing. Shock the CPO buyers with high prices, so they are nudged towards buying new Model S. And keep using the cpo cars as service loaners for a while.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    hashraf
    The annoying part is that the private party sellers have crazy high price expectations and several of them are asking for even more than the inflated CPO prices. Given the limited supply in private party market, there are enough gullible buyers who have no idea about CPOs and jump onto these private party sales at higher than CPO prices. Good thing for a current owner who wants to get rid of their car but not so great for someone who is in the market for a used tesla.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    DougH
    Exactly. If you look at the PD's listed on Ebay the prices are laughable. However on the flip side of the coin people overpaid for their cars to begin with so they are stuck with how low they can reduce it.

    Check this one out, a $125K....COME ON!

    Tesla Model s Tesla Model s P85 D | eBay
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    FlatSix911
    Yes, most of the Inventory vehicles are low mileage with good options ... mine had 50 miles and was delivered at the Fremont factory.
    (I speculated that the original buyer had their financing fall through or they got cold feet just prior to delivery)... who knows the story?

    I purchased my Inventory Model S on June 26th - the last week of the 2nd quarter and received a nice discount from new.
    I would imagine that the same favorable pricing conditions would be available for the next 2 weeks at the end of 3rd quarter.

    I am also happy to share one of my $1,000 gift certificates for buying a Tesla Model S via this link: http://ts.la/ted5066 (expires on Oct 31, 2015).
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Tamar
  • Sep 17, 2015
    thgchris
    nope I'm just an idiot. Doh - I thought the thread was referring to the tesla motors used portion of website going up for sale. Whoops.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    DougH
  • Sep 17, 2015
    clarkbariowa
    [?IMG]


    Off Menu CPO - Florida

    Florida car, 13300 miles, 2015, $49600 Certified.

    Brent Seavey | Owner Advisor
    1200 Old Skokie Valley Rd | Highland Park, IL 60035
    p 847-579-0028 | m 630-849-4233 |     [email�protected]
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    shadowinstallz
    85kwh? Image not showing on my phone
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    clarkbariowa
    60 Kwh
    Silver Metallic
    Pano
    19" Wheels
    Black Nappa
    Obeche Wood Gloss
    SC
    Tech Package
    UHFS
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    DCAC
    It was good to see a couple well optioned sub-$60k S85s show up today, even if only for ~30 minutes.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    Jeffgtx
    autopilot?
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    DougH
    Theres no way for $50K
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    mmd
  • Sep 17, 2015
    DougH
    It's a Honda dealer, they have no clue. Even at $98K it hadn't sold.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    Jeffgtx
    The idiot who thinks the retail price is 20k higher than msrp I guess?
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  • Sep 18, 2015
    karkalag
    Just saw this on CPO site San Francisco area... 2012, 24,000 miles for $57,500.

    Is this a reasonable price? Since there is 4 years/50000 miles warranty , does late year really matter? Thanks.

    85 kWh Model S
    Silver Metallic Paint
    Body Color Roof
    19" Wheels
    Grey Leather Interior
    Lacewood D�cor
    Supercharging
    Twin Chargers
    Tech Package
    Active Air Suspension
    Sound Studio Package
    Rear Facing Seats
    Paint Armor
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  • Sep 18, 2015
    cgiGuy
    Wow... Signature S73 was posted at 8:20 for $62,500. Looks like it's gone already.
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  • Sep 18, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Now waiting when the s85 will hit $45K. I have seen plenty of s85 at low 50K already. For the p85 waiting for it to hit $50K. We have seen one at high 50K and plenty at low 60K.

    Keep those price rolling back!
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  • Sep 20, 2015
    Cowby
    I hope you're right! But alas, me thinks it'll take forever (mid next year probably?) before we could see those kinds of prices. There's just too many people willing to pay over what u are willing (I have a higher threshold than u and can't seem to get the car I want at the lower prices)...and I'm getting too old to wait for that perfect bargain so I have placed an MX on reservation in case I can't find a good deal on an CPO MS in the meantime. If u can't beat...might as well join em! :biggrin:
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  • Sep 20, 2015
    DougH
    On a side note. If anyone is looking for a P85 WITH Autopilot 57229 has it, it's just not listed. I ordered this car and had it for 3 weeks before Tesla took it back so I could get a D. It's a great car.

    Tesla 001.JPG

    85 kWh Performance Model S P57229 | Tesla Motors
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  • Sep 20, 2015
    viperboy
    At this rate I'll have a cpo way before the model 3 even comes out!!
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  • Sep 20, 2015
    mrjedistud
    Looks like slim pickings on the cpo site. There have not been many new units added in about 3 weeks. Maybe this is the lull before the model X deliveries start and people start trading in their 2012-2013 model s.
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  • Sep 20, 2015
    AnOutsider
  • Sep 20, 2015
    DougH
    This was almost a year ago. I was told it was used as a training car for Tesla employee's
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  • Sep 20, 2015
    AnOutsider
    Ah makes sense
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  • Sep 21, 2015
    DougH
    Bunch of new cars added.
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  • Sep 21, 2015
    hashraf
    Wonder how long $97k p85d is going to last. If you configure bew with same specs it comes to 116k before tax credits.
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  • Sep 21, 2015
    spentan
    Body color roof is why it's cheap
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  • Sep 22, 2015
    hashraf
    Cheap textile seats. Who wants a 100k car and no leather.
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  • Sep 22, 2015
    DougH
    Lame wheels and no roof, not worth the asking price but I am sure someone will buy it.
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  • Sep 22, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Actually I prefer textile seats for 2 reasons:
    1) I like the feel better than leather

    2) Leather wears out and it's pretty bad. I have been in old luxury cars (2005-2009) and the leather really bad feel and smell.
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  • Sep 22, 2015
    Fiver
    Some interesting cars added in the last few days. Lots of Autopilot and a 70D tonight. Pretty barebones 70D tho.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    paintpolisher
    Model S 70D 084350 | Tesla Motors
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    jtpassat
    has pano, air suspension and next gen seats. I call that fully loaded.

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  • Sep 23, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    I was happy to start seeing a 70D model. Not cheap enough for me though as it is pretty much the same price as new less the federal tax credit.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    dalamchops
    that is a good 7k cheaper than new... as configured it's 89k before fed
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    Ah. I must've missed a couple options when pricing it since I was thinking it was only like $84k originally.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    spectrablue
  • Sep 23, 2015
    DougH
    I thought about just getting a 70D until there are used 90DL to buy, then I went and drove one yesterday :frown:
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    sitter_k
    A 90DL or a 70D?
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    DougH
    70D.....coming from a P it was sooooooooooooooo slow.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    mspisars
    So, now you are buying a P90DL new?
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    mmd
    Most people do get additional rebates on new Teslas. In CA, it is a $2500 check from CARB. So, it's not really a bargain IMO. I'm curious as to who turns in these cars with just under 4k miles on them.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    DougH
    Yeah, I dont have $130K to blow on a car. Probably going to get a used P85+ until I can afford a 90D
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    clarkbariowa
    Off menu 2013, 13293 miles, $49600 fully certified.5YJSA1AC6DFP10712

    60 kWh Model S
    Silver Metallic Paint
    All Glass Panoramic Roof
    19� wheels
    Black Nappa Leather Interior
    Obeche Wood Gloss D�cor
    Supercharger Enabled
    Tech Package
    Ultra High Fidelity Sound.

    Clean History, Clean Car, Won�t Last.

    Brent Seavey | Owner Advisor
    1200 Old Skokie Valley Rd | Highland Park, IL 60035
    p 847-579-0028 | m 630-849-4233 | [email�protected]
    �
  • Sep 23, 2015
    DougH
    Meh. bring us some good cars like a cheap loaded P85D.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    Seems a bit high now that the 70D are in the cpo. These really need to be at max $45K with the options for it to move.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    sunilsf
    Seems like this has been removed from the website. I'd be surprised if it sold that quickly... it was only ~$5k cheaper than new (net of Fed'l and CA tax rebates).

    Lots of P85+ vehicles now in the $70-$85k range.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    Wshowell
    i like this pricing trend! I'm a little confused about why these cars don't make the CPO list. Any insight? I'm still 8 months out as the wife is holding me to "new landscaping, new kitchen FIRST!" The woman has no regard for my desire to save the planet by driving a a Tesla. For shame! Anyway, please share what you know about what I consider to be a great value. I live on the CA coast and have super chargers in three directions easily within range of a 60. This would work for me, my budget and wish list, just bad timing.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    Tamar
    So that's $7500 cheaper than new for most of the country. Plus the lower tax burden....I can see doing this if new was a stretch.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    ev-soon
    Maybe, but looking at the historic sold/removed list there are very, very few which 'sell' in the 6 digits - and those that do are better optioned.

    In fact I looked over the historic data again tonight and am not sure I understand Tesla's pricing strategy (assuming there is one). Of the 36 pages and 720 vehicles 'sold' you only need to go 6 pages (120 vehicles) in before the prices are in the 70s.
    On the available site, you have to go further than that in the available 240 vehicles to get below 80K.

    My take away is that about 15M of the CPO inventory is not priced to move, it is instead priced to substantiate a new sale of a lower spec vehicle instead. Indeed many of the advisors will quickly steer you from CPO to similarly prices, lower optioned, inventory vehicles.

    Now having $16M of inventory CPO/INV does not really help the financial picture for Tesla - so it's clearly a sales tool. And the $16M also is not that interesting to realize, especially if allowing the CPOs to go at lower prices pushes down the private sale price and reduces the illusion (or fixing) of private sale pricing.

    So the off-menu CPOs which are sold at lower prices help to move aging stock - while not going into the 'sold/removed' stats ...

    Bottom line, CPOs are really selling for mid-70s or less, everything else is just a positioning price for new and inventory sales.

    Just my opinion, after tracking it for a couple of months as an active potential buyer.
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  • Sep 23, 2015
    DougH
    Could not agree with you more.
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    Drucifer
    When I put in my deposit, on the day the CPO site launched, I was concerned that waiting would get lower priced cars or maybe even a car with autopilot, and that I was acting in haste and should have delayed. I never imagined that all the bargains would get snatched up leaving a lot of highly priced P85 and P85+ vehicles that are losing the competition with new 70, 70D and 85D cars.

    I'm glad I moved quickly when I found the exact car I wanted at a price that was lower than what I expected to pay in a private party sale.
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Good article today in Fortune -- and also being reposted on several other news sites:

    These are the hidden costs of buying that Tesla you always wanted - Fortune

    I think the author Stacey Higginbotham is on TMC because I remember reading about the insurance quote mix-up, but I don't remember where (perhaps in this thread?). Anyway, this article is driving A LOT of traffic to EV-CPO.com, so thanks, Stacey!
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    dalamchops
    seems like the only hidden cost is installing the charger... which is not all that much a surprise given you're buying an EV
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    jtpassat
    just another click bait article.

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  • Sep 24, 2015
    Drucifer
    The hidden cost is the cost of your time talking to everyone who comes up to you asking questions about your car. ;)
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Nice! Congrats on the pseudo namecheck, Hank.

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  • Sep 24, 2015
    ecarfan
    Yes the article title is a bit of click bait, but then that's true of just about everything online. The article itself is fairly reasonable and just points out three areas that people should think about: installing a 240 V outlet in the garage if not already have present, (typical cost being only a tiny fraction of the cost of the car) a possible rise in auto insurance costs (but in the authors case there was in fact a slight decrease in her insurance cost), and in her case a very minor issue of some extra work to register the car in Texas, which is only relevant to Texas.
    The authors conclusion is that the car was totally worth it.
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    mkjayakumar
    I loved the article content, but why the click bait title?. In fact the article completely negates the title. The article states there are no other costs than, taxes (what a surprise), shipping and around $500 for an electrical outlet. The last item is the only thing that is different from any gas car and it is a one time expense that can used for all your future EV purchases.

    For every person that reads that articles, there are 10 others that are simply reading the headline, shaking their head and moving on...
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    taurusking

    You are absolutely right...First when I read the title ...I was thinking the same...not another negative article about Tesla
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    freeewilly
    What a horrible article, since when paying sales tax and insurance are hidden costs?
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    DCAC
    Agreed, dumb title. For nearly every EV other than Tesla, you have to buy an EVSE for ~$500 in addition to the 240V outlet/wiring (assuming you want Level 2 charging). So I would argue that Tesla has less "hidden" costs, at least when it comes to charging.
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    DougH
    Not really sure how she feels installing a home charger is a "hidden cost", its more common knowledge than anything.
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  • Sep 24, 2015
    SmartElectric
    Facts:

    1. All EV's that I am aware of bundle an EVSE with the car. While we can argue that most are L1 120V, which is less useful than the (excellent) Tesla UMC, it is entirely possible to spend no additional money on charging infrastructure if you have a standard 120V outlet.

    Example : My Smart ED came with an OEM L1 EVSE, and it's all I've ever used to charge the car in 2 years and 13000 km of daily city commute driving.


    2. Tesla Model S burns through >1 kWh daily (aka the vampire drain), and on the coldest winter day, the battery heater uses as much power as a 120V outlet provides, leading to no charging at all. Other EV's don't nearly consume or drain this much energy in those situations.

    Example : My Smart ED consumes almost no standby power, left unplugged for two weeks, I come back with the same amount of battery charge as I left it. Charging on cold winter days works similarly to warm days, no difference in charge time. Therefore, the Tesla due to the nature of it's energy usage often (mostly?) requires 240V charging.


    While these facts may be inconvenient, they are true. We agree the Tesla is brilliant, but other EV's are awesome too in their own ways, in their own usage.
    �
  • Sep 27, 2015
    austintexas
    Stacey is not on TMC, but you're correct that this insurance quote mix-up was posted on the board. I posted it, and I'm her husband.

    I know some people are griping about the headline, and I don't blame them. All I'll say is that anyone who's been in journalism knows that the headline process is sometimes separated from writing the article.

    Hank, your site was instrumental in helping us pick out our CPO. The historical data helped us benchmark if the car was priced right, and the paid version made it simple to find the cars that met our requirements. You've priced it too low, though -- only $10 to make a good decision on a $70k purchase?:smile:

    Buying a car sight-unseen was unnerving, but we've been very happy so far. I'll post more about the experience some other time.
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  • Sep 27, 2015
    dhanson865
    +1 that she said 240V instead of the incorrect 220V, -1 when she said 110V instead of the correct 120V.

    Taxes and Insurance, sure, but true for any other car I'll buy as well. I suppose they had a word or line or paragraph minimum and she had to stretch the piece just to get them to run it.

    Texas isn't flat? I wish the article had a picture of your driveway.

    Still overall the article didn't come across as negative and I can understand that she might not have control of the clickbait title.

    For me the EVSE and wiring cost were dealt with when I got my Nissan Leaf. I put in a 14-50 and got an evse that plugs into 14-50 so I don't have additional expenses to look forward to other than getting my next EV.
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  • Sep 27, 2015
    AMPd
  • Sep 27, 2015
    MsElectric
    Nice price but no pano roof... Otherwise well equipped. At $97K this might be the first P85D CPO under $100K.
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    taurusking
    I think most people walk away from that deal because there is no pano roof and seats are textile seats...

    - - - Updated - - -


    I am with you on this....I want a P85D as well
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    BoerumHill
    I'm surprised how many MS there are with no pano. I always thought it was pretty rare, but it's 17% of the current inventory and 21% of the already sold cars.

    It's a must have for me, but I guess some don't want the extra weight? Or is it less desirable in hot climates?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Glad you had a good buying experience.

    Amen to the bolded. My writer friends often cringe at the articles attached to their work. I enjoyed the article very much.
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    Cyclone
    For many people, it could be poor prior experiences with sunroofs in other cars. For me, I've never been a big fan of sunroofs and even in the MS, I only open it when giving demos to friends. It was a must-have for me, but if Tesla offered a fixed glass top instead of a solid metal top, I would have gotten that. I like having the glass top and have no need/desire for it to move.
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    Chris
    I love my pano roof!
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    Cyclone
    Now I gotta go read the article everyone's talking about. I skipped over it b/c of the title initially!
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    DougH
    I am not a fan of sunroofs either, I only get them in the Model S for resale value.

    Sunroof, dual chargers and rear facing seats seem to be a big selling point for used Tesla's.
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    taurusking
    I don't see S85D CPO on sale with auto pilot features....I tried searching EV CPO as well.

    Am I missing something? OR there is no S85D for sale ?:confused:
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    HankLloydRight
  • Sep 28, 2015
    DougH
    They are listed as 85D on the site. They normally sell within a day of being on the site.
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    taurusking
    No wonder I am not seeing them...Guess someone with eagle eyes would catch it right away

    - - - Updated - - -

    I wanted to know about non performance 85D.

    Thanks Hank anyway
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    DougH
    They are listed as follows:

    60
    70D
    85D
    P85
    P85+
    P85D

    You dont really need to search 85D because when one is there its at the top.
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  • Sep 28, 2015
    Drucifer
    Just keep spreading that thought - it will be useful when I get my next one ;)
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  • Sep 29, 2015
    spentan
  • Sep 29, 2015
    andrewket
  • Sep 29, 2015
    Cowby
    Dang, u guys are fast! Was just about to ask what y'all thought about this one from a value proposition?
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  • Sep 29, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    And it's gone.
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  • Sep 29, 2015
    andrewket
    I don't think a founder's car is worth any more today. If anything, it's missing a bunch of features and options, not to mention the build quality. But in 20 years? It might be an interesting car to own.
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  • Sep 29, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Here were the specs: 8,581 miles, $69,700


    Screen Shot 2015-09-29 at 9.30.34 AM.png

    - - - Updated - - -


    That looks like a good enough deal to have converted to a P85+.
    �
  • Sep 29, 2015
    taurusking
    It's gone that fast....:confused:
    �
  • Sep 29, 2015
    Cowby

    Can you clarify what you mean by this Hank? So then it should have been given + status?
    �
  • Sep 29, 2015
    Cyclone
    Perhaps I am missing something that was seen elsewhere on that page, but how do we know it was a Founders Edition vs. a Signature Edition?
    �
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